Latest / Ridiculous History / Dan Sickles, American Scoundrel, Part 2: The Civil War

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Dan Sickles, American Scoundrel, Part 2: The Civil War · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. This is part two
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: of our two part series on the Infamous, the Notorious,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: the scoundrel Tastic Dan Sickles, uh no, this guy is.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: This guy is a real um freemium awful. I'm thinking
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: of pos premium awful swide. I'm gonna say a premium
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: uh oh awful like I said, like goods, I'm gonna
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: say premium awful. Spoo own mam. We paused. We paused
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: before recording the second part of this to just talk
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: about spoon Man, rocket around the Christmas Tree earworms for
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: everyone who wants an earworm, we got you covered. Spoon
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Man nothing to do with this. I don't even know
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: what it's about. I think it's about a dude who
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: would like do that handbone thing with spoons, like somewhere
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: in Seattle he was the spoon Man, and Chris corneloig
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: is like, I'm gonna write a song about that guy,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: and then the rest is history. Feel the rhythm with
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: your hands, come together with your hands, like I think
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: that's literally as simple as it sounds. He's coming together
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: with his hands and the spoons to make the sound
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: of the jingle and jangle and spoons and it will
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: in some way save you. So this this has nothing
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: to do a part two of Dan's Sickles. Um. This
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: is just an example of the weird conversations we have
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: between recordings, especially on a Friday at the end of
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: the day when we're all a bit punchy. And hey,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: you know what I just realized, fellas, it's a long weekend.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Long weekend, that's true. Oh and uh shout out to
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: super producer Casey Pegram who does a wonderful spoon Man rendition.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: By the way, I am, I am in awe. Uh.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Let's go back with Dan. So we mentioned that Dan's
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: philandering and his his murder and his trial were not
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: the end of his Scalie Wagg's tail. He did even
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: more dirt bag stuff during the Civil War. Well you
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: know what they say, Ben, one good scandal deserves another.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Um and uh and and sickles that you know, he
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: believed in this adage wholeheartedly. He was given the post
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: of commander in the Union Army. At least he was
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: on the Union side. Let's just give him that as
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: a somewhat positive During the Civil War, um, and he
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: was there at the beginning of the Battle of Gettysburg.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: His commander, a general George Meade, who you uh civil
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: war buffs out there may have heard of um. He
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: told Sickles to hold fast his position. But you know what,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Sickles isn't one to to take orders for many general.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: You know, he's a man, He's a man of a
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: great resolve, uh, the master of his own destiny. So
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: he decides he has a better idea. He wants to
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: move his men to higher ground. That seems like a
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: pretty legit military tactic, despite you know, going against the
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: direct order. To be fair, he did ask for permission, um.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: But when he didn't hear anything back. You know, he's
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: not one to wait. You know, history time waits for
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: no man has another adage that Sickles like to go by.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: So he didn't hear back. How long did he wait though? Yeah?
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I mean that may be lost history, Ben. What do
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: you think couldn't have been long? Yeah? I have this
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: image of him saying, Okay, send him to ask and
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: then let's go move. Yeah. It's like basically a formality,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: you know, or courtesy. So he decides he's going to
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: go ahead and do it, and do it anyway. So
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: he moved his troops without permission, essentially, you know, uh,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: rejecting a direct order. This is worthy of treason court
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: martial at the very least. Yeah, it's disobeying a direct order.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Here's what happened, Here's why the general wanted him to
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: stay there. Uh, this movement took his group out of
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: line with the rest of the Union troops. And as
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: quoted in the excellent PBS article, Thomas Kennelly, the author
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: of American Scoundrel, a two thousand two biography of Sickles,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: explains it this way. He says, moving out a line
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: with the rest of the Union troops could have opened
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: up a near fatal gap in the line, meaning that
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: the enemy could penetrate defenses right in a way that
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: could turn the tide of battle. However, Sickles still has
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: some defenders in this bit of history who say that
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: this move forced the enemy to in gage, and it
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: required Union troops to support the open gap and occupy
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: the Roundtops, two hills near the line, and that this later,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: quite possibly through accident, turned out to be a very
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: strategic point in the battle. So the question really is
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: a matter of whether Sickles singlehandedly almost one or lost
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: this battle. That this enormously important conflict during the Civil War,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: and historians debate it today. But he did not get
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: away from the war clean. He lost his leg with
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: his lower leg was shredded by a cannonball at Gettysburg
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: and uh, hot dog man, it came at the right time.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: He did not get court martialed for disobeying this order
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: because he was wounded and he had an amputated leg
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: and people didn't like the optics of punishing a wounded veteran,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: that's right. Uh, So he kind of was elevated even
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: higher to the status of a war hero. Uh. And
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: you know he was always known as a bit of
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: a show boat. Um. He decided in in in show
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: body fashion, to donate his lost leg to an army
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: medical museum, and he would take women there actually on dates,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: which is an odd flex um. But you know, I
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: gotta appreciate his his his houtzpah uh to to see
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  Speaker 1: his remains, especially on the anniversary of of the amputation.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: And side note, the National Museum of Health and Medicine
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: still has the bones on display today. Come away with
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: me your vivacious minks, let us regard my leg in
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: the museum. In the museum, I mean, yeah, there's not
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: many people that can take someone to a museum and
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: show them literally a piece of their uh a former
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: piece of their body. But so you think he'd hit
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: peak scoundrel. Not so. After the war ended, you know,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: he he'd solidified his reputation not as a scoundrel at all,
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  Speaker 1: but apparently as a war hero. So Sickles actually is
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: put in charge of a military district that was established
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: in the South. I assumed to make sure those naughty
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Southerners weren't like harboring, like secret slaves or anything. But
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: his wife died of tuberculosis that year at the age
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: of thirty one. Uh And that was the same year
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: that Ulysses Grant appointed Sickles the ambassador of Spain, where
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: he continued to add to his lothario resume by carrying
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: on a sorted affair with the deposed Spanish queen is
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: a bell of a second uh and and and it
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: was from this uh dalliance I guess that he earned
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: the nickname the Yankee King of Spain. Yes, yes, a
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: lecture a libertine like Cassa nova h After the affair,
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  Speaker 1: he marries one of the queen's attendance. This does not
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  Speaker 1: strike all members of the court as a super cool
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: thing to do. For all members of the government, I
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: should say, one Secretary of State, Hamilton's fish accused Sickles
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: of quote. This is a quote using child virgins for
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: the purpose of depravity. And and that's the Secretary of
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: State of US government. And so he forces Sickles resignation.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Sickles bums around Paris for a few years, and he
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: returns to the United States in eighteen seventy nine. I
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: want to step back there because in a previous episode
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: we talked about the anti spitting campaign to prevent the
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: spread of tuberculosis. In this story, we just had someone
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: expire from tuberculosis, just underline how real and widespread this was.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: But somehow it did not touch Old Danny s and
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: he is still regarded as a war hero. So in
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: the Nate eight nineties, he's appointed to head the New
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: York State Monuments Commission. It puts him in charge of
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: erecting monuments to the Civil War throughout New York. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and you know, you'd think this would be like a
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: kind of like, ah, I don't know, a sun setting
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  Speaker 1: kind of retirement, kind of like you know, cushy career,
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  Speaker 1: and that also has some prominence attached to it and
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  Speaker 1: some prestige uh to kind of you know, maybe this
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  Speaker 1: would be the end of to his dog days, but
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  Speaker 1: that's not our boys sickles. He knew who he was,
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  Speaker 1: so in nineteen twelve, officials found twenty eight thousand dollars
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  Speaker 1: missing from commission accounts UH and arrest He was ninety
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: three at this point, ninety three, and so they arrest him.
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  Speaker 1: But he he he knew he could sell U catch
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  Speaker 1: up popsicle to a man in white gloves, and he
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: uh didn't serve a single day in prison because he
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  Speaker 1: was able to essentially charm his way out of this situation. Too.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: He did something very similar to a certain uh US
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: president as outgoing attempts at fundraising, where he raised money
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  Speaker 1: to essentially like almost like under the guise of, like,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: you know, help me clear my name, but essentially it
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: just went directly into his pockets. Right, Yeah, yeah, I
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: wouldn't give everybody a sense of how much money we're talking.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: You know, we love a good inflation calculatory eight thousand
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  Speaker 1: in eight nine, he's equivalent to He's equivalent equivalent to
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: uh seven nine six thousand, three hundred and forty three dollars,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: so almost a million bucks. Bold and daring. Yeah, and
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: that's so that's a lot of money to raise for
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: this guy. People love it though, and uh, the guy,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: as we said, never faces consequence for this. Yeah, he
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: didn't seem to. I mean, he did lose his leg
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: whish you know, I wouldn't wish that on anybody really,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: So that's definitely a consequence, not a direct concept. Maybe
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: it's a karmic consequence, but even that he was able
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: to kind of parlay into like getting more play from
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: unsuspecting women. And would you believe that when he passed away,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: uh two years later of natural causes, mind you, he
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  Speaker 1: was buried in Arlington National Cemetery with a with a
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: war heroes burial. Uh yeah, well people consider him a
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  Speaker 1: war hero. However, there there are other lasting consequences of
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  Speaker 1: this guy's um Motley career. You know, he's considered heroic
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  Speaker 1: by some, he's considered a criminal and a murderer by others. Uh,
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  Speaker 1: opinions on him very widely. But he made some marks
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: in history. We talked about the insanity defense earlier in
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: the episode, but let's go let's go back to that
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: a little bit. Since his plea, since he became the
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  Speaker 1: first person to get away with this, many many, many
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: other people have tried to use the insanity defense. Jeffrey Dahmer,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: John Hinckley, as you mentioned earlier, John Wayne Gacy, ed Geane,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: and John DuPont, who you will remember as the multimillionaire
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: who murdered an Olympic wrestler that he thought was part
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: of a global conspiracy to kill him. What was the movie?
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: But isn't Steve Carrell in a movie about that? Fox Catcher?
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Fox Catcher, and all of this really wouldn't have been
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: possible without Sickles. And you know, I think it's clear
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: that this was absolutely a legal ploy with no uh
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: sand to it at all. The man knew exactly what
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: he was doing and plotted this for days, and yet
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  Speaker 1: the jury seemed to buy it. Uh So this is
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: a legacy of lies, yea in this case. And of
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: course we're not saying there's no such thing as being temporarily,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: you know, mentally unfit, but for this to be the
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: first one basically trumped up and invented for this guy's benefit. Um.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: You know, of course, there there are other examples where
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: it could well be true. I still am a little
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: skeptical of it in general as an argument. But but yeah,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: tell us a little bit more about the evolution of
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: of this argument and where it came from. Well, right now,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: According to the National Institute of Mental Health, Uh, you're
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: going to see this defense invoked in a very small
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: number of cases, like less than one percent of felony cases.
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  Speaker 1: And of that less than one percent of felony cases
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: where temporary insanity is used as a defense, it is successful,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: maybe a little less than one out of four times. Uh.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: And also, you know, anybody who's got a grand scheme
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: to get away with crime by pleading tipperary insanity, please
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: do remember, even if you are that one out of
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: four of that less than one percent who successfully pleads this,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: you will probably be institutionalized for years or even decades.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: You're still getting locked up somewhere, is what we're saying.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: It's true. Uh, Ed Gain Um, I believe got off
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: on one set of charges using that plea and then
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: he was eventually convicted for being criminally insane. And uh
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: and you know was committed. You know, he didn't get
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: the death penalty. Uh, he was found to be not
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: a sound mind. And he you know, lived the rest
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: of his life out in a facility of that sort. Um.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Another thing is interesting about about Sickles is the way
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: he just kind of like like wedged himself into these
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: like elite corners of high society. Uh, you know, in
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: places that you wouldn't expect. In eighteen fifty three, he
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: was what's is a position called the Corporation Council for
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: the City of New York, and he was responsible for
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: acquiring the land that is now Central Park, probably one
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: of New York City's most famous features. And he described
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: the process, uh, of of setting out to form a
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: consulting committee of twenty his words, twenty four gentlemen prominent
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: in our municipal social life and with whom I was
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: in the habit of conferring upon all questions of importance.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: So this committee is led by Sickles. They select the
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: site for what will later become Central Park. And they
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: pushed for this location. Uh. This was a this was
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: a response to the original plan, which had been to
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: put the park in a much much smaller plot or
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: site in a different area of New York, but they
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: said this growing city needed a larger park. That was
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Sickle's position. Also, before you think this is a moment
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: of nobility in in his life, uh, it was very
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: much a matter of self interest, the admiraltier motive. You see.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Sickles had bought building lots near this new site, and
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: he knew that if they could just get the park
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: built there once it opened, the value of that property
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: would skyrocket. Uh. And then after he successfully did this,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: he resigned from his committee post and went on to
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: become UH Secretary to the U s Ligation in London.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: So he had he had a plan, he had a
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: scheme he did. Indeed, it seems like this guy's whole
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: life was a series of plans and schemes, you know. Um,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: and he also just kind of had a reputation as
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: being a particularly cool customer. You know. He's a sort
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: of a James Bond esque figure, except without the spying stuff,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: just more of the martini and the womanizing bits. I mean,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: you know, again, he did lose his leg in battle.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Let's let's give the guy credit work credits due. But
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: there you know this guy. This type of figure in
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: history often gets associated with almost like larger than life
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: mythological kind of features. Um And there is a story
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: of him when he was escorted off of the battle
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: ground at Gettysburg Um where he had lost his leg,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: chomping on a cigar um and and and saying men
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: hold your ground, um And that you know has become
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: part of the kind of mythos of the second day
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: of of Gettysburg. H. W. A. Swanberg's biography Sickles the Incredible,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: published in nineteen fifty six, is a big part of
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: what has caused this kind of little piece of uh,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: you know, potentially, I'm not quite sure how much truth
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: there is to it, but this piece of Lord to
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: kind of propagate, right, according to Swanburgh. He says in
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: his book Sickles quote seemed only moderately upset and was
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: not one to allow this moment to pass without making
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: full use of its dramatic value. Being informed that a
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: rumor had gone around that he was mortally wounded, he
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: requested stretcher bearer to remove a cigar from his inside
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: pocket and light it for him. He was carried away
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: with the havana projecting dauntally from his mouth. Yeah, it's
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: a great movie moment, right, But the reason it's a
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: great movie moment is because it may not be true.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: A lot of historians just sort of took this lovely
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: image and ran with it, you know what I mean,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: instead of proving whether or not was true. Uh, contemporary
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: sources are not so certain that it is. Uh. There's
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: one very important fact here. If the cigar incident actually happened,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Sickles own writing his own accounts, never mention it. His
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: battlefield performance in general became uh, the object of some
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: intense scrutiny. And you know, think about it. If he's
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: building a career, if he's so sensitive to his public reputation,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: if he literally takes women on dates to look at
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: his leg, wouldn't he have talked about his like heroic
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: stogy smoking moments. I don't know. It's not proof that
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: it didn't happen, but we do know what happens when
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: people have injuries of this extreme degree. They'll go into shock,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: They'll lose a lot of blood. So Sickles may not
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: have may not even remember how he was acting when
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: he was carried away from the conflict. We have proof
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: that uh, Sickles in the in the time leading up
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: to and immediately after his amputation, we do know that
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: he probably that he did chief on a couple of stogies.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: He smoked a cigar too, But it was only in
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: later years, after speaking with other veterans, did he start
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: like styling on this. So the accounts of from when
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: it would have originally happened, Sickles never mentioned it. But
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: later in life he suddenly remembers this story and he
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: talks about how he had someone put a lit cigar
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: in his mouth and carry him down the battle line
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: to encourage and talk to my men. Uh. But you know,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: memories a funny thing. It just seems weird that you
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: would remember that so much later and never ever mentioned
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: it before. So what do you think it's a myth?
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Or do you think it really happens. I don't know, man,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: it seems pretty implausible. It seems like a good story,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But I mean, surely if
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: you've you've lost a leg, wouldn't you probably be passed
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: out from shock or something. I don't know that you'd
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: have the wherewithalts of like you know, puff on a
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: black and mild or when now is a haven. This
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: is much nicer. But still, no, I do not think
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: this happened, Ben, I'm gonna go ahead and lay it
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: on the line. I do not think this happened. Uh,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: we do know that he went to seances. We're just
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: throwing these sickles facts out. You bury the lead there,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: didn't you been not just any seances? My friend, he
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: was getting real cozy with one Mary Todd Lincoln. You
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: may have heard of her, married to one of the
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: great statesmen of our time, President Abraham Lincoln, UM. And
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: there was even speculation that they were a little more
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: than just seance pals, right right. Uh. He was a
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: frequent visitor to the Lincoln White House, and he was
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: one of Mary Todd Lincoln's favorite people. Observers who knew
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: of the man's reputation were said to have watched in
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: disgust as he called on her at all hours. He
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: would be your escort when the president was unavailable, the
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: same way that his old friend and victim he had
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: escorted his own wife, Teresa years ago. You know, this
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: makes me think I wouldn't it be funny if there
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: was like kind of a reimagining of pulp fiction where
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln as Marcellus Wallace and uh uh, Mary Todd
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Lincoln as Mio Wallace and Dan Sickles is the guy
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: who was secretly giving foot massages. And then Lincoln finds
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: out and he's like, you don't touch another man's wife's
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: feet as a very erotic act, and then he throws
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Dan Sickles from a top story white house window. Uh.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: That would have been a really cool and to this
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: absolute scoundrel's life, but unfortunately that is not the way
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: it played out. No, no, uh. He did attend a
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: seance with Mary Todd Lincoln on February sixty four. Mary
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Todd Lincoln supposedly took him with her to test the
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: alleged powers of a medium named Neddie Colburn Maynard. She
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: identified him as crooked Knife, which is a very loose
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: if you're being charitable, that can be seen as a
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: very loose translation of his surname Sickles. Crooked knife. That
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: that almost is like that sounds like the kind of
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: thing you'd uses like a coded way of referring to,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: like an operative or an informant, like deep throat or
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: something like that. Crooked Knife also strikes me as and
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: what could be a nickname for someone's little Australia. Wow. Yeah,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: that's a disturbing nickname. Though. We want to end on
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: a lovely little lesson in pettiness by none other than
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Samuel Clemens, better known perhaps as Mark Twain, fantastic writer
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: and uh fantastic storyteller, also known for his uh savage wit.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: He's kind of a predecessor to the host of late
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: night comedy shows. You know, Uh, every everybody knew that
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: sickles post war Uh made this point of leaving his
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: artificial leg at home whenever he would go do veterans
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: stuff because of the image it depicted. And this prompted
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Mark Twain to say, the general valued his lost leg
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: above the one that has left. I am perfectly sure
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: that if he had to part with either of them,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: he would part with the one that he has got.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: And that's actually I have it's from his autobiography. That's
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: where Mark Twain is saying that. And uh, that's a
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: good book too. But it's very very long, it's not
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: very edited. Well that's in Yeah, you gotta have an editor,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Mark Twain. Um. But yeah, this goes to show what
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: a ZEITGEISTI figure this dude was that Mark Twain felt
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: the need to give his hot take about his relationship
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: with his lost limb. And here our tail draws to
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: a close. Daniel Sickles has been called a scoundrel. Some
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: people called him a war hero. And one thing's for sure,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of people who lived at the same time
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: that he did found him to be an extraordinarily likable,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: if untrustworthy person, which I think is it's kind of
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: a definition of his scoundrel. What do you think, man, Oh,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: I want to know what's super producer? Casey Pegram things.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: He's a land of contrast. He uh, he lived to
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: live the life. He did live a life, Casey on
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: the case that's true, Casey, I mean, you know, like
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: it was, it was a dog eat dog world back
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: in those days. You had to make your own way. Uh,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: and you gotta you know, you gotta crack a few
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: eggs to make a delicious um cuckled the omelet um.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Because the thing is, I know, I know, not good.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: I would say it's still a dog eat dog world.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: It certainly is. Been, it certainly is. I guess all
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: I'm saying is the little blur by Red at the
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: top of episode one from PBS about how we assume
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: that the moral fabric of society has just gotten you know,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: more and more unraveled over time. I would argue that
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: that is not the case, that people have been depraved
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: since the beginning of time. Um, And I don't know
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: if it's necessarily like a better or worse situation at all,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: you know, I think that's a true The idea we
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: have of Victorian morality, as we've mentioned in previous episodes,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: is somewhat mythical. It's not it's not entirely based in fact.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: Oh my cats, sorry everybody. Uh, our episode day has
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: been interrupted not by Jonathan Strickland ak the Quister, but
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: by Dr Vankman. Dr Vankman, he's actually in frame this time. Yeah,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I've moved him off, but you know, to your point
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: casey Uh. It reminds me of the Walt Whitman quote
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: from uh the Song of Myself? Right? Do I contradict myself?
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Very well? Then I contradict myself. I am large. I
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: contain multitudes. I think we all do. We're so many
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: different people over the course of our lives, over the
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: course of a given day. Um, maybe we should hesitate
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: to Judge Daniel Sickles, I don't know, man, I still
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: don't like him. I don't. I don't think he's a
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: good person. No, no, I don't think he's a good person. Here.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: I think he's probably one of history is great uh miscreants.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: But you know what, he makes for a great story.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: And we hope that you enjoyed this two parter of
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: ridiculous History. Huge thanks to you, as always, Casey super producer,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Casey Pegrin. That is thanks to Alex Williams who composed
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: this track. The kids would call it a bob. Thanks
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: as always to the one and only Gabe Lousier. Thanks
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: to Eve's Jeff Coat, host of our pure podcast UH
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: this day in History Class thinks, of course, to Christopher
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Hasciotis and Jonathan Strickland, a k a. The Quister. Jonathan,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: if you're listening, it seems that you may have a
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: challenger to your position of ridiculous histories, top scoundrel. Hey,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: if you want to find us on the internet, you
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: can do so on social media. Why not join our
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Facebook group Ridiculous Historians. Just name a name, any part
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: of the show, a topic, whatever. Don't worry about what
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: the question actually is just let us know that you're
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: a human person, that you actually know what the show is,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: and you're in lots of good memes sharing and conversation
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: from our fellow ridiculous historians. You can also find us
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: on Instagram, uh, Twitter, and all that. Honestly, the most
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: active accounts you're gonna follow are going to be our
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: individual accounts as human people. I am at how Now
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Noel Brown on Instagram. If you have questions about this
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: episode or any other episodes, feel free to hit me
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: up directly. I am at Ben Bollon on Instagram. You
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: can find me at Ben Bolen hs W on Twitter.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I believe that that's our show today, Casey Nol, thank
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: you guys so much. I hope everyone has a wonderful
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: long weekend and does not get shot with a cannon,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: specifically talking to you, Casey, watch out for those cannons.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: I'll be on the look out. I'll see you next
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: time Folix. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.