Latest / Foul Territory / Ken Rosenthal’s Inside Scoop + Ranking the best starting pitchers in baseball w/Andy McCullough

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Ken Rosenthal’s Inside Scoop + Ranking the best starting pitchers in baseball w/Andy McCullough · Foul Territory

0:06
Speaker 1: We are joined once again by a senior writer for
0:08
Speaker 1: the Athletic MLB on Fox sideline reporter and insider Ken Rosenthal. Ken,
0:13
Speaker 1: good to be with you. As always, everybody wants to
0:16
Speaker 1: know if one of the highest prospects in terms of
0:19
Speaker 1: Banfair is going to make the team. What can you
0:22
Speaker 1: say Connor Griffin Pirates breaking with the big league club.
0:27
Speaker 2: From the indications we're getting from their quotes, it seems
0:31
Speaker 2: the answer is no. Now, he's having an interesting spring.
0:34
Speaker 2: He's hitting not great, but he has four home runs,
0:39
Speaker 2: ten strikeouts, zero walks. That's always alarming for any young
0:43
Speaker 2: player when he's not walking. Now, at the same time,
0:46
Speaker 2: the Pirates have to ask themselves, is this the best
0:48
Speaker 2: shortstop that we have? Is this the best shortstop we
0:52
Speaker 2: could put on our roster and be most competitive that way.
0:57
Speaker 2: That's a good question because they don't have great all alternatives.
1:00
Speaker 2: Jarrett Triolo and Nick Gonzalez are major league players, no
1:03
Speaker 2: question about it, But Connor Griffin obviously represents the greatest upside.
1:08
Speaker 2: Now there is another element here, and it's really interesting.
1:11
Speaker 2: So if you remember with Paul Skeens, he wasn't ready
1:15
Speaker 2: to come up opening day or at least, the Pirates
1:16
Speaker 2: didn't deem him ready to come up opening day. They
1:19
Speaker 2: held him out until mid May, and then he came
1:22
Speaker 2: up in mid May one Rookie of the Year regardless.
1:26
Speaker 2: So by winning Rookie of the Year, he got a
1:29
Speaker 2: full year of service time even though he wasn't active
1:32
Speaker 2: for a full year. That's the rule under the CBA
1:35
Speaker 2: right now. And because he didn't make the opening day
1:39
Speaker 2: roster or was in the majors by April tenth, the
1:42
Speaker 2: Pirates did not get the draft pick that they would
1:46
Speaker 2: get by the Prospect Promotion Incentive Program, So they kind
1:50
Speaker 2: of got nailed both ways in a negative sense. They
1:53
Speaker 2: didn't get the draft pick, and he got a full
1:55
Speaker 2: year of service. I don't know that that will be
1:57
Speaker 2: a major consideration with Griffin, but it probably should be
2:00
Speaker 2: a consideration with the Pirates, and I'm sure they're thinking
2:03
Speaker 2: about it now. The other element, and there's a lot
2:05
Speaker 2: of elements here, if they signed Connor Griffin to an extension,
2:09
Speaker 2: they would probably do it after opening Day because he
2:11
Speaker 2: would remain eligible for the Prospect Promotion Incentive Program and
2:15
Speaker 2: the Pirates would remain eligible for that pick. But if
2:20
Speaker 2: they do that, the question then becomes okay, are you
2:23
Speaker 2: dangling that? So you'll say to him, you're on the
2:26
Speaker 2: roster if you sign this contract. It's been done before.
2:29
Speaker 2: So as I said, there is a lot going on here.
2:33
Speaker 2: And there's another prospect in Detroit's camp, Kevin McGonagall, who
2:36
Speaker 2: it looks like is going to make their team. He's
2:38
Speaker 2: kind of the number two prospect in the sport. He's
2:40
Speaker 2: having a monster spring in many ways, more strikeouts, sorry,
2:44
Speaker 2: more walks than strikeouts. He is in a different place
2:47
Speaker 2: than Griffin from that perspective, and he's playing terrific defense
2:50
Speaker 2: on the left side. So these are both fascinating decisions,
2:54
Speaker 2: and we'll see how they play out. But the Griffin
2:56
Speaker 2: one to me, because he hasn't exactly torn it up.
3:00
Speaker 2: The Pirates can have the excuse, well, we don't want them,
3:03
Speaker 2: but it might hurt themselves in the end if he
3:05
Speaker 2: indeed wins Rookie of the Year and they don't have
3:08
Speaker 2: him the whole year.
3:09
Speaker 3: There's so many things unpacked with the Connor Griffin thing.
3:13
Speaker 3: Or are they talking about extensions? You know, anytime you talk
3:16
Speaker 3: about a young guy like that, is there a date
3:19
Speaker 3: that it goes past that they could hold Connor Griffin
3:23
Speaker 3: down because the fear was always manipulation. But is there
3:26
Speaker 3: a date, like if they hold him till June fifteenth,
3:30
Speaker 3: it makes it way tougher to win Rookie of the Year.
3:32
Speaker 3: But is there a date that could hold him down
3:34
Speaker 3: so that it would be a form of type of manipulation.
3:38
Speaker 2: Yes, and it is probably late June when you would
3:42
Speaker 2: get not only the service time implication, you're holding him
3:46
Speaker 2: down preventing him from winning Rookie of the Year and
3:49
Speaker 2: him getting that full year of service. And you're also
3:51
Speaker 2: at that point preventing him from becoming a Super two
3:55
Speaker 2: in arbitration. So there are those incentives still in place.
4:00
Speaker 2: But my goodness, the Pirates have finally spent some money
4:03
Speaker 2: this offseason. They are clearly trying in the way that
4:07
Speaker 2: they try to compete. You're going to hold this kid
4:10
Speaker 2: down until late June when other teams see him as
4:13
Speaker 2: a hugely valuable player right now, so I don't see
4:18
Speaker 2: that happening.
4:18
Speaker 4: Eric.
4:19
Speaker 2: Yes, they can do it, but it is not in
4:20
Speaker 2: their interests to do it. And it is a complicated
4:24
Speaker 2: question because this is his age twenty season. There aren't
4:27
Speaker 2: many players who have come up and had five hundred
4:30
Speaker 2: at bats in their age twenty season, and if they
4:32
Speaker 2: are seeing things and spring training that make them feel
4:35
Speaker 2: he needs more development, well that's a legitimate thing and
4:38
Speaker 2: you can't fault them for that. So it's a complicated question,
4:42
Speaker 2: a really interesting one, and we'll see how in the
4:44
Speaker 2: final days of spring it all kind of plays out.
4:48
Speaker 5: Is it technically just age twenty season? This is my question.
4:51
Speaker 3: But because he's nineteen, if you start a season, are
4:54
Speaker 3: you technically age nineteen season?
4:57
Speaker 2: No, it's June first, is the date? Okay, okay, becomes
5:01
Speaker 2: a different or maybe it's de live first. I'm not sure,
5:04
Speaker 2: but this is his age twenty season. I think his
5:06
Speaker 2: birthday is in May if I'm not mistaken. So technically
5:10
Speaker 2: it is his age twenty season, and that's how baseball
5:12
Speaker 2: does it. I believe it's delive first, correct me if
5:15
Speaker 2: I'm wrong with somebody out there, but I think that's
5:16
Speaker 2: when it kicks over.
5:19
Speaker 3: My last question with Connor Griffin is are they waiting
5:21
Speaker 3: for him to be a superstar? Because the whole thing is, oh,
5:24
Speaker 3: you know, they haven't quite done it. And I get it,
5:26
Speaker 3: you know, he hasn't walked and all this stuff, But
5:29
Speaker 3: are they waiting for him to be a superstar to
5:31
Speaker 3: call him up, because to me, that feels like that's
5:34
Speaker 3: a big ask at nineteen years old.
5:38
Speaker 2: Maybe they want to see him dominate triple A. I
5:41
Speaker 2: can see that he hasn't played a triple A yet.
5:43
Speaker 2: But at the same time, the question they have to ask,
5:46
Speaker 2: and again it's complicated. What is best for the player
5:50
Speaker 2: right now and what is best for the team right now.
5:53
Speaker 2: It might be best for the player to go back down,
5:55
Speaker 2: but for the team, well, maybe it's best to keep him,
5:59
Speaker 2: keep that draft pick possibility alive because you didn't get one.
6:02
Speaker 2: With schemes. There are all these different parts of the
6:06
Speaker 2: equation here that they have to consider. And if you're
6:10
Speaker 2: Ben Sherrington, you're their president based operations, You're saying to yourself, Okay,
6:14
Speaker 2: what's best for the kid, And maybe he is determined
6:17
Speaker 2: or will determine that what is best for the kid
6:20
Speaker 2: is for him to get more minor league development. Well,
6:23
Speaker 2: there are consequences to that, perhaps for the Pittsburgh Pirates,
6:27
Speaker 2: and Sherrington has to weigh that too.
6:31
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7:33
Speaker 1: About the Atlanta Braves and Jerks and Profar with the
7:36
Speaker 1: suspension obviously for the ped use and then of course
7:39
Speaker 1: the appeal not going his way. What do the braves
7:42
Speaker 1: do moving forward without him? And is there a scenario
7:46
Speaker 1: in which he comes back after the suspension is served.
7:50
Speaker 2: That is a good question, a lota. I have a
7:52
Speaker 2: hard time believing it. At that point, I'll have a
7:54
Speaker 2: year left on his contract fifteen million. If on them,
7:57
Speaker 2: I eat it. I don't worry about going forward with
8:00
Speaker 2: Jerks and Profar. At that point, he has compromised them enough.
8:04
Speaker 2: Now what do they do is the question. And they
8:07
Speaker 2: were waiting for resolution on the appeal before determining whether
8:12
Speaker 2: to go forward and spend some more money. Look at
8:15
Speaker 2: different options. They could take the fifteen million that he
8:19
Speaker 2: is due and distributed elsewhere, or they could also pocket
8:24
Speaker 2: it for the deadline and have a lot of money
8:26
Speaker 2: to spend at the deadline. There are all kinds of
8:28
Speaker 2: things that they can do. Lucas Giolito is still out there.
8:31
Speaker 2: This is a team that needs starting pitching, that's one thing.
8:35
Speaker 2: As for the outfield, they've got Yustroemsky. They signed him.
8:37
Speaker 2: So it's Yastremsky, and it's Michael Harris, it's Ronald Lacunya.
8:41
Speaker 2: Not bad. You might want a little bit more depth.
8:43
Speaker 2: You might want to go get an outfielder, and there
8:45
Speaker 2: are out of options guys who might be available. There
8:48
Speaker 2: are minor league free agents with opt outs that might
8:51
Speaker 2: be available, or you might be able to make a
8:54
Speaker 2: trade for something more significant. Mike Yustreemsky was not signed
8:57
Speaker 2: to be an everyday player, but it's not as if
9:00
Speaker 2: they are totally bear there. And now that they have
9:04
Speaker 2: this resolution, they know that he will be suspended for
9:07
Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty two games, they at least can
9:09
Speaker 2: be certain with where they are financially. And I would
9:13
Speaker 2: imagine I don't know this for a fact, but I
9:15
Speaker 2: would imagine they were waiting for this because they wanted
9:18
Speaker 2: to know for sure that, yes, we will not be
9:21
Speaker 2: paying Jerks and profar, and that is the answer. They
9:24
Speaker 2: will not be paying jerks and Profar.
9:27
Speaker 3: What have we been missing since we've been watching the
9:30
Speaker 3: shiny bright object of the WBC. What are some of
9:33
Speaker 3: the storylines that, oh, yeah, spring training has still been
9:35
Speaker 3: going on that now we're thrust back into spring training essentially.
9:40
Speaker 2: Abs for sure, and that's going to be a story
9:43
Speaker 2: in the early part of the season, no question about it.
9:47
Speaker 2: I don't know that we're missing anything. Eric, regarding major
9:50
Speaker 2: storylines in spring training. I always feel spring training, Okay,
9:54
Speaker 2: we watch it, it's kind of a mirage. We don't
9:56
Speaker 2: know what we're seeing doesn't really matter, but once the
10:00
Speaker 2: season begins, yes, the storylines come into play, and certainly
10:04
Speaker 2: there are a lot of new managers in place, Tony
10:06
Speaker 2: Vtello the most prominent among them with the San Francisco Giants.
10:09
Speaker 2: There are players coming back from injuries that we'll be
10:12
Speaker 2: looking for, Garrett Cole, Corbyn Burns, Zach Wheeler, all the
10:15
Speaker 2: guys who had the Hanfe fractures as well Lindor and
10:18
Speaker 2: Jackson Holliday. So there are all kinds of things brewing,
10:22
Speaker 2: and perhaps we'll see some extensions in the next week
10:25
Speaker 2: as well. It's kind of the time of year for that.
10:27
Speaker 2: But until the season begins, what we're watching in spring
10:32
Speaker 2: is kind of of little consequence unless players get hurt,
10:35
Speaker 2: players come back healthy, trades are made something along those lines.
10:39
Speaker 3: Can we go to the Blue Jays pitching rotation because
10:43
Speaker 3: they have a lot of people, They have a lot
10:45
Speaker 3: of guys down with Bieber going down with now Treya
10:48
Speaker 3: Savage news Do we feel like the Jays kind of
10:53
Speaker 3: saw some of this coming because of the fact of
10:56
Speaker 3: how many guys they got and then January thirtieth, they
10:58
Speaker 3: signed Max Scherzer that they felt like, we're not going
11:02
Speaker 3: to be a full strength right out of the gate.
11:05
Speaker 2: Yes, they knew Bieber was not right. And the day
11:09
Speaker 2: he exercised that player option for next year, coming off
11:13
Speaker 2: a pretty good year, when he could have gone to
11:15
Speaker 2: free agency and probably gotten a multi year deal, the
11:19
Speaker 2: entire industry knew something was up there. There was no
11:22
Speaker 2: reason for him to make that decision from a financial
11:25
Speaker 2: standpoint if he was healthy, So they knew that going in.
11:28
Speaker 2: They also knew you Savage at the very least would
11:32
Speaker 2: need to be slow played, because of course he pitched
11:35
Speaker 2: a lot of innings last year, a lot of high
11:36
Speaker 2: stress innings toward the end of the year. Barrios also
11:40
Speaker 2: ended the year hurt, and it couldn't have been sure
11:43
Speaker 2: about him either, So Eric, you're onto something there. They
11:47
Speaker 2: did have a sense that there were some possible problems,
11:50
Speaker 2: and that was one motivation for signing Scherzer obviously, and
11:55
Speaker 2: Cody ponce before that. And they'll un cease. They're in
11:58
Speaker 2: a good spot as far as the depth. We see
12:01
Speaker 2: that they have a legit rotation even without burials and
12:04
Speaker 2: Bieber and Bowden Francis and now you're Savage but the
12:08
Speaker 2: depth is something that they're going to need and something
12:11
Speaker 2: that will obviously be more in jeopardy if another picture
12:15
Speaker 2: gets hurt. They're okay now, but they're kind of one
12:18
Speaker 2: picture away from one injury away from having a major problem.
12:22
Speaker 1: Ken Eric and I at the top of the show,
12:24
Speaker 1: we're talking about the New York Mets perhaps implementing more
12:27
Speaker 1: of the relay system of pitches in the dugout. We
12:30
Speaker 1: talked to Susan Slesser about it as to whether the
12:32
Speaker 1: Giants would do that, being that Vitello obviously is a
12:35
Speaker 1: college coach and that type of thing. In your estimation,
12:38
Speaker 1: is that something that more clubs perhaps would do. We
12:41
Speaker 1: knew the Marlins have done it. The met are toying
12:43
Speaker 1: with it. They're working through something. Susan doesn't think unless
12:46
Speaker 1: it's like a rule five catcher that's going to be implemented.
12:49
Speaker 1: What's your estimation of how many clubs might actually use this.
12:54
Speaker 2: I would say minimal number, a lot, and it should
12:57
Speaker 2: be a minimal number. Goodness, gracious, aj Prizidski. All of
13:02
Speaker 2: these catchers out there, they know what they're doing. They
13:06
Speaker 2: can react to the game in a better sense than
13:09
Speaker 2: someone from the bench. Can they are reading swings in
13:12
Speaker 2: a better way because they're trained in this, they're experienced
13:15
Speaker 2: at it, then some coach who's calling a pitch. I
13:19
Speaker 2: don't like it.
13:20
Speaker 4: To me.
13:21
Speaker 2: It removes even more instincts from the game, and we've
13:23
Speaker 2: done enough of that already. So I'd be interested to
13:27
Speaker 2: hear Eric's thoughts on this, because to me, it's unnecessary. Now,
13:31
Speaker 2: if you have a rookie catcher or an inexperienced catcher,
13:34
Speaker 2: a different story perhaps, but get entire game should not
13:38
Speaker 2: be run from the dugout. It's ridiculous to me.
13:41
Speaker 3: I'm monologued for like five minutes on a ken at
13:44
Speaker 3: the top of the show, so I'll give you the
13:46
Speaker 3: cliff notes version. I don't like it, but I'm also
13:49
Speaker 3: open to making sure that the team plays the best
13:52
Speaker 3: that they can possibly play. So I'm not as if
13:56
Speaker 3: Aj who was called prickly by Susan plusher earlier show
14:01
Speaker 3: that like, if he was on he would say, now,
14:03
Speaker 3: I hate it, I can't stand it, you know, get
14:04
Speaker 3: off my lawn kind of thing.
14:06
Speaker 5: I was a little bit less hate it and more
14:08
Speaker 5: just don't like.
14:09
Speaker 2: It, okay, And I can understand what you're saying there
14:13
Speaker 2: it makes a lot of sense. Of course, if it's
14:15
Speaker 2: going to help the team win, yes, you'd be on board.
14:18
Speaker 2: My feeling is though, that the catcher has the best
14:21
Speaker 2: sense of what's going on, and if you've got to
14:24
Speaker 2: catcher like j Triobuto, just as one example, you're not
14:27
Speaker 2: messing with him. Now again, younger catcher, different story, but
14:33
Speaker 2: it's problematic for me. I kind of still feel the
14:35
Speaker 2: catcher has the best sense and that's the way the
14:38
Speaker 2: game should be played.
14:40
Speaker 3: I agree, And I gotta ask you, is this next
14:43
Speaker 3: topic problematic for contracts for players? Danny Kloom had agreed
14:48
Speaker 3: to a contract and then the physicals came back. We
14:51
Speaker 3: don't know exactly what it was, but there was something questionable.
14:54
Speaker 3: Both the player and the team were amenable on this,
14:58
Speaker 3: that he's going to get a million guaranteed but possibly
15:01
Speaker 3: still get up to the two point five and incentives.
15:04
Speaker 3: Isn't this bad for or could it be problematic because
15:08
Speaker 3: now teams are willing to say, well, hey, if you
15:11
Speaker 3: want this contract, you're gonna have to earn it, which
15:14
Speaker 3: is the best for teams and could be kind of
15:17
Speaker 3: a worst case scenario for players.
15:19
Speaker 2: Eric, This is not that unusual. This does happen from
15:22
Speaker 2: time to time. We don't always hear about it when
15:25
Speaker 2: a player has something in his physical that gets flagged
15:29
Speaker 2: by the team and then they adjust the contract. In
15:31
Speaker 2: this case, we heard about it. Obviously. If you're a player,
15:34
Speaker 2: you're concerned, and if you're a prominent player who is
15:38
Speaker 2: in demand, you're in a better situation than Danny Coolan was,
15:41
Speaker 2: although of course we've seen this with Korea several years
15:44
Speaker 2: ago as well, where those contracts weren't adjusted when the
15:48
Speaker 2: Giants and Mets flagged his physicals. They just backed out
15:51
Speaker 2: and then he ultimately signed with the Twins. But it
15:55
Speaker 2: is something where, yes, teams can take advantage of it,
15:58
Speaker 2: but if you've got a competitive situation, you're going to
16:01
Speaker 2: see another team jump in and say, you know what,
16:02
Speaker 2: that's not that bad. We can assume this risk here
16:05
Speaker 2: with this physical issue that we've identified, and it's not
16:08
Speaker 2: that big a deal. So I don't see this as
16:11
Speaker 2: particularly uncommon. I don't know that it happens more than
16:15
Speaker 2: three or four times an offseason, if that. But it's
16:18
Speaker 2: not a first time situation. Where Danny kolom was in
16:22
Speaker 2: this position, it was first time perhaps for him, but
16:25
Speaker 2: not in general. For the game.
16:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like in essence, Ken, if he can
16:29
Speaker 1: stay healthy, then he'll have the opportunity to get those
16:32
Speaker 1: incentives back and the Red Slacks sign him at a
16:35
Speaker 1: very low risk one million dollars. Can We always appreciate
16:38
Speaker 1: everything you bring to the inside Scoop. Have a tremendous weekend.
16:40
Speaker 1: Don't forget guys. Ken is back with Fair Territory on
16:43
Speaker 1: Monday and Thursdays. Right here on the Foul to the
16:46
Speaker 1: Foul Territory YouTube channel. We'll be right back after this.
16:51
Speaker 1: We are now joined by a senior writer of The Athletic,
16:54
Speaker 1: Andy McCullough, the worst half of Stephanie Epstein. Good to
16:58
Speaker 1: see you, Andy, Good to be with you. I want
17:01
Speaker 1: to ask you about your article, the twenty twenty six
17:03
Speaker 1: aces project MLB Insiders rank starting pitchers. Who's just a
17:08
Speaker 1: guy and who is number one? You collaborated on this?
17:12
Speaker 1: Tell us more about the rankings my friends.
17:14
Speaker 4: Sure, thank you, Anna, I do I also prefer my
17:17
Speaker 4: wife to me. Yeah. So, for the last like seven years.
17:22
Speaker 7: Now, when my colleagues at the Athletic, we've been trying
17:24
Speaker 7: to kind of do this project of just to determine
17:27
Speaker 7: like who are the best pictures in baseball. And so
17:30
Speaker 7: I do it these days with Will Salmon and Sahadivsharma
17:34
Speaker 7: and we basically have a pool of like twenty executives,
17:38
Speaker 7: scouts analysts. We try and kind of have a diverse
17:40
Speaker 7: array of opinions and we send them a list of pictures.
17:44
Speaker 7: This year was ninety pitchers, and we just kind of ask,
17:47
Speaker 7: you know, for them to put a scouting grade one
17:50
Speaker 7: through five, you know, on each guy, and it takes
17:53
Speaker 7: a lot of time on their end, and so.
17:54
Speaker 4: We really appreciate it.
17:55
Speaker 7: And you know, the idea is like you come out
17:57
Speaker 7: with like, okay, if you get twenty people know who
18:00
Speaker 7: work in baseball, right, how many of them? Like, how
18:03
Speaker 7: many pictures are unanimously number one? So does everyone we
18:07
Speaker 7: can find, you know, is considered an ace. And this
18:10
Speaker 7: year we had you know, two is Trek Scugle and
18:12
Speaker 7: Paul Skean's not a shock, I think to anyone.
18:16
Speaker 4: Scooble was unanimous last year as well. Skeens was like
18:19
Speaker 4: one vote short.
18:20
Speaker 7: Maybe, but it's just like it's it's a really interesting
18:23
Speaker 7: way to kind of just try and rank pictures, you know,
18:26
Speaker 7: to think about how you know scouts and executives see
18:29
Speaker 7: them and to.
18:30
Speaker 4: Just try and find a consensus.
18:31
Speaker 3: Basically, what, Okay, so you compiled all this information. Where
18:38
Speaker 3: are your where are your rankings? Are you a Alana
18:40
Speaker 3: Rizzo big pile of aces or you a Eric Kratz.
18:44
Speaker 5: There's not many aces in the in the game.
18:47
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm I'm a small ace guy or a small
18:51
Speaker 7: hall guy.
18:51
Speaker 4: Whatever.
18:52
Speaker 7: Yes, I'm on your side, Cratsy.
18:56
Speaker 4: Yeah.
18:56
Speaker 7: And I this is this whole project kind of morphed
19:00
Speaker 7: of this dinner we used to have at spring training
19:03
Speaker 7: like ten years ago, where a bunch of writers would
19:05
Speaker 7: get around and.
19:05
Speaker 4: Like argue about this, and I, you know, there was
19:09
Speaker 4: like aces, there's number twos, there's number threes, number fours, whatever.
19:12
Speaker 7: And I created this category called applicants, which is basically,
19:16
Speaker 7: if you pitch like an ace for a season, you
19:19
Speaker 7: have you are formally applying to become an ace. And
19:23
Speaker 7: so you know you kind of have to do it again, right,
19:25
Speaker 7: you can just like beat great for one year and
19:27
Speaker 7: then all of a sudden you're a number one. The
19:29
Speaker 7: whole point of being an ace is there's like a
19:31
Speaker 7: track record of sustained success. And so from my personal rankings,
19:37
Speaker 7: which is worth what I charge from them. The three
19:39
Speaker 7: aces in baseball are Scooble schemes and Garrett Crochet and
19:44
Speaker 7: Yoshinobu Yamamoto and Christopher Sanchez are applicants for the twenty
19:48
Speaker 7: twenty six season, and then I would also have the
19:51
Speaker 7: caveat that with a season of good health and performance,
19:55
Speaker 7: Garrett Cole and Zach Wheeler are automatically re certified as aces.
20:01
Speaker 3: Andy, you and I. You and I are so locked in.
20:04
Speaker 3: I love this, but we need to solidify your list
20:07
Speaker 3: of aces because my my argument is there are six
20:10
Speaker 3: to eight aces. I wouldn't say six to seven because
20:13
Speaker 3: of the kids today, but there you go, six to
20:15
Speaker 3: eight aces in the game at any time. So I
20:19
Speaker 3: put together my list, and I want you to break
20:21
Speaker 3: it down because I completely agree. Yamamoto is a no
20:24
Speaker 3: because I'm black and white.
20:26
Speaker 5: He's a NO. I love your applicants. I love that
20:28
Speaker 5: I love that he can.
20:30
Speaker 4: How did you know?
20:31
Speaker 5: How is he no Dodgers? Dodgers?
20:34
Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with Dodgers. It has nothing
20:36
Speaker 1: to do with Dodgers. He was the World Series MVP.
20:39
Speaker 4: How is he you know?
20:39
Speaker 1: He's the only starter for the Dodgers that that pitched
20:43
Speaker 1: every time the ball was given to him, the only
20:45
Speaker 1: one on the al How is he not an ace?
20:47
Speaker 1: If Showhy wasn't on that list and he didn't even
20:50
Speaker 1: pitch last year, how is it? How is Yamamoto not
20:52
Speaker 1: an ace?
20:53
Speaker 7: Well, so it's not love him, it's not Alana, it's
20:57
Speaker 7: not a talent issue. And again he's applying like he's
20:59
Speaker 7: put in a formal application in the twenty twenty sixth season.
21:03
Speaker 4: But he simply did not.
21:05
Speaker 7: And again, Yamamoto is like the greatest pitcher probably in
21:08
Speaker 7: Japanese history.
21:09
Speaker 4: He won the Solomora three times.
21:11
Speaker 7: You know, like he's shown what he's capable of these
21:13
Speaker 7: past couple of seasons. He's also like never thrown one
21:16
Speaker 7: hundred and eighty innings in a big league season, and
21:19
Speaker 7: that's you know, kind.
21:21
Speaker 1: That like, isn't it somebody that just dominates?
21:24
Speaker 5: Like what it tell me?
21:25
Speaker 1: Again, the criteria make sure.
21:28
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's kind of like the Supreme Court definition of pornography.
21:32
Speaker 4: I guess, like you know, when you see it.
21:35
Speaker 7: I just think no, Like I think I think that
21:38
Speaker 7: you need to, you know, be capable of making at
21:40
Speaker 7: least thirty starts, if not more, you know, one hundred
21:44
Speaker 7: and eighty innings.
21:45
Speaker 4: The more innings the better going deep into games.
21:48
Speaker 7: You know, look, if Yamamoto does what he did last
21:51
Speaker 7: year again this year, that'd be crazy because it'd be
21:54
Speaker 7: really weird to see him pitch on games six and
21:57
Speaker 7: seven of the World.
21:57
Speaker 4: Series back to back. But like, if he puts it
22:00
Speaker 4: another season, yeah, he gets certified as an ACE for me.
22:04
Speaker 3: Yes, so okay, so we're on that. That's such a
22:07
Speaker 3: great explanation. I'll tell you when you're out of line. Okay,
22:10
Speaker 3: any but right now you and I we are. Oh wait, no,
22:13
Speaker 3: you're on this side. Now we are. We are together.
22:16
Speaker 4: But Southeastern Pennsylvania stay together.
22:20
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, Sanchez is a no for me currently and Crochet.
22:27
Speaker 5: Yes.
22:29
Speaker 3: Max Reed I think is the most fringe right now.
22:31
Speaker 3: I think he is very fringy in the sense that
22:33
Speaker 3: he has another year like he did last year. He
22:36
Speaker 3: is a yes, but currently not an ace bona fide
22:39
Speaker 3: number one though, And I agree with the Wheeler and I.
22:43
Speaker 1: Say Max Reed's an ace. I would not say that.
22:45
Speaker 5: You act like I think everybody's We agree. I know
22:49
Speaker 5: he's not much. Okay, he's not.
22:51
Speaker 1: He's not an ace.
22:53
Speaker 7: From a from a scouting perspective, from what from what
22:56
Speaker 7: analysts and people around the game say about him, he
22:58
Speaker 7: is closer to a number two than number one. Now, again,
23:01
Speaker 7: beating in number two is awesome, Like you're so good at.
23:07
Speaker 4: Baseball as a number two starter.
23:10
Speaker 7: There are plenty of number twos and number three's in
23:13
Speaker 7: the Hall of Fame, right Like, it's not a criticism.
23:16
Speaker 4: There's just like the scouts.
23:17
Speaker 7: They have this sort of scale, and some of it
23:20
Speaker 7: is like, you know the power of your stuff, your velocity,
23:23
Speaker 7: you know how many bats you miss, all these sorts
23:25
Speaker 7: of things, and so Freed is like a very very
23:28
Speaker 7: high end number two, which like if you said that
23:31
Speaker 7: to him, it'd be like it would sound insulting, but
23:34
Speaker 7: it's just like, you know, it's sort of like the
23:35
Speaker 7: twenty to eighty scale, right Like that's just kind of
23:38
Speaker 7: how standard deviations work.
23:40
Speaker 4: I guess, Yeah, that's tremendous.
23:43
Speaker 5: Again, Andy, you're locked in. I love it.
23:45
Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm going down my list now, I'm going
23:48
Speaker 3: down my list, I said, Sanchez, No Freed, no logan,
23:53
Speaker 3: web Logan web to me is an ace because he's
23:57
Speaker 3: out there, he's done it for years, and that's part
23:59
Speaker 3: of the cave. That's when I get down the rest
24:01
Speaker 3: of my list, where do you see Logan Webb on
24:03
Speaker 3: the ace or not ace scale?
24:06
Speaker 7: Again, it sounds like it's insulting because he is awesome
24:09
Speaker 7: and he takes the baseball and no one is better
24:12
Speaker 7: at you know, picking up innings, Like you know, he's
24:16
Speaker 7: a number two according to what our panelists say, like
24:20
Speaker 7: they see him as closer to a number two. That
24:23
Speaker 7: still means he is awesome and you would love to
24:25
Speaker 7: have him in a postseason situation and you can build
24:29
Speaker 7: a pitching staff around him.
24:30
Speaker 4: But from you know, the sort.
24:32
Speaker 7: Of scouting perspective, he's closer to a two than a one.
24:37
Speaker 1: Is Jacob de Gram on the tier three? Just because
24:40
Speaker 1: he's always hurt and he hasn't.
24:42
Speaker 7: Done a lot, right, I mean with de Gram, like
24:46
Speaker 7: de Gram in peak de Gram, you know what what
24:48
Speaker 7: was like twenty seventeen to twenty twenty one. Yeah, obviously,
24:51
Speaker 7: you know, definitely a number one, even with the sort
24:54
Speaker 7: of occasional.
24:55
Speaker 4: Lack of availability. You know, he was like his results
24:59
Speaker 4: were really really good.
25:01
Speaker 7: In twenty twenty five. You know, he had like a
25:05
Speaker 7: sub three era. The peripherals were like less crazy. You know,
25:10
Speaker 7: he wasn't striking out like fourteen per nine the way
25:12
Speaker 7: he used to. But yeah, like I think from a
25:16
Speaker 7: from a stuff perspective, maybe not as dominant as he
25:19
Speaker 7: once was, but like I think, just getting thirty starts
25:22
Speaker 7: out of him is such a such a win. So yeah,
25:24
Speaker 7: closer to you know again like a two, and then
25:28
Speaker 7: the the the the health concerns push it closer maybe
25:34
Speaker 7: two a three, which is why he's below you know,
25:36
Speaker 7: someone like a freed or a web given that he
25:39
Speaker 7: has like higher upside if that makes.
25:41
Speaker 1: Sense based on the parameters by definition, Andy McCullough, can
25:50
Speaker 1: you have more than one? I mean, you guys only
25:53
Speaker 1: have two, Terrek, Can you have more than one ACE
25:57
Speaker 1: on the same team?
25:58
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, for sure, And we only had two. We
26:01
Speaker 7: had two unanimous aces in our poll. We have a
26:05
Speaker 7: whole degrading system that we had said there were five
26:10
Speaker 7: and they included Crochet Yamamoto, who the public agree or
26:14
Speaker 7: excuse me, are are the people around the game agree
26:16
Speaker 7: with you, Alana about Yamamoto that he's number one? And
26:19
Speaker 7: Christopher Sanchez was just you know, kind of just over
26:22
Speaker 7: the line from our sort of system that we use.
26:25
Speaker 7: So those five were right there. And then with I
26:27
Speaker 7: believe Freed and Web were right on the other side
26:30
Speaker 7: of the line in terms of trying to decide it.
26:32
Speaker 4: So yeah, you can.
26:33
Speaker 7: You can have multiple number ones. Like it's not a
26:36
Speaker 7: it's like a binary question. It's like are you or
26:38
Speaker 7: aren't you. It's not where you fit in a rotation.
26:40
Speaker 7: It's just like do you have these sort of set
26:42
Speaker 7: of skills. So like when you know Justin Verlander and
26:46
Speaker 7: Max Scherzer played together with the Tigers, you know that
26:48
Speaker 7: sort of thing, like they were both number ones.
26:52
Speaker 3: Okay, continue down my list because my list is the
26:55
Speaker 3: most important list. But you are agreeing with me.
26:58
Speaker 4: Agree.
26:59
Speaker 3: I have one that my opinion, when we always talked
27:01
Speaker 3: about this in the minor leagues, big leagues, whatever, it was,
27:04
Speaker 3: if you had a certain amount of time as an
27:07
Speaker 3: ace and then you were down and you re upped
27:10
Speaker 3: your ace, ness, you're still an ace. I think Chris
27:13
Speaker 3: Sale is an ace because of the fact that we
27:17
Speaker 3: don't know he can't win a side. If you're out
27:19
Speaker 3: there and you could win a cy Young this year,
27:21
Speaker 3: to me, I think Chris Sale is in that ace category.
27:25
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, and I think if you're talking about
27:28
Speaker 7: my own personal ridiculous sort of you know standards, we
27:33
Speaker 7: created another I say, we I created another category, which
27:38
Speaker 7: is an American badass, which is like when you're really
27:42
Speaker 7: not a number one, but you've earned a reputation of
27:46
Speaker 7: you know, being that because of all you've done and
27:48
Speaker 7: the fact that you're still very effective. And it's almost
27:50
Speaker 7: like to say that Chris Sale is like a number three,
27:52
Speaker 7: like feels kind of insulting, right, especially when you watch
27:55
Speaker 7: Chris Sale and he's healthy and he's awesome, but you know,
27:57
Speaker 7: in terms of like being an actual number one, there's
28:00
Speaker 7: an availability issue, and so you know, he gets that
28:04
Speaker 7: very vaunted you know, definition of an ABA in my system,
28:09
Speaker 7: in the way that the people who actually make decisions
28:11
Speaker 7: in baseball, they have them somewhere.
28:13
Speaker 4: In between a two and a three.
28:15
Speaker 3: You're the judge, jury, and executioner in the ACE categories.
28:19
Speaker 3: So no matter what you say, that is gospel, my
28:22
Speaker 3: last one, My last one. This guy only made twenty
28:26
Speaker 3: five starts last year, but for the first time in
28:28
Speaker 3: his career he missed starts, and he has a career
28:32
Speaker 3: three five ERA, and he has eclipsed two hundred innings
28:37
Speaker 3: and he's over his strikeouts per inning, and it's Logan
28:41
Speaker 3: Gilbert to me, I think Logan Gilbert is.
28:44
Speaker 5: My last ace on the list. I want to hear
28:47
Speaker 5: what other people had thought about it, and even even
28:49
Speaker 5: your opinion.
28:50
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you. You know it was interesting.
28:54
Speaker 7: One of the things that was really fascinated to get
28:56
Speaker 7: the results back for this year was kind of where
28:58
Speaker 7: the three younger members of the Mariners rotation would end up.
29:02
Speaker 7: We kind of know how everyone feels about Luis Castillo,
29:05
Speaker 7: like super valuable, super reliable, kind of mid tier guy.
29:09
Speaker 7: George Kirby and Logan Gilbert were two guys heading into
29:12
Speaker 7: this past season who were seeing as guys who had
29:14
Speaker 7: a chance to, you know, really solidify themselves as number ones.
29:18
Speaker 4: Both got hurt in.
29:20
Speaker 7: Twenty twenty five, Kirby maybe a bit more seriously than Gilbert,
29:23
Speaker 7: so they missed time and that kind of dinged their ceiling. Meanwhile,
29:27
Speaker 7: Brian Wu kind of vaulted past them, you know, on
29:30
Speaker 7: on this year's rankings.
29:32
Speaker 4: I'm I'm really fascinated to see kind of how those
29:33
Speaker 4: three guys shake out.
29:35
Speaker 7: Because Gilbert has all the you know, all the tools,
29:37
Speaker 7: all the ability, Like he's shown that he can be
29:40
Speaker 7: really elite. He just hasn't put it together, you know,
29:43
Speaker 7: in a in a full season just yet, so he
29:45
Speaker 7: would be again and that like number two.
29:48
Speaker 4: Number three tier for me right now.
29:51
Speaker 7: And that's kind of where we had him on the list,
29:53
Speaker 7: you know, it's kind of below the webs and the
29:56
Speaker 7: freeze and not yet in the.
29:58
Speaker 4: You know, the number one discussion.
29:59
Speaker 7: But I think if he has a big year, like
30:01
Speaker 7: he has all of the uh like the physical sort
30:04
Speaker 7: of tools and the you know, the building of miss
30:05
Speaker 7: bats and and that they could vault him in back
30:08
Speaker 7: into that discussion.
30:10
Speaker 3: All right, I have one more, but I forgot the
30:12
Speaker 3: comment about Logan Webb. To me, I thought Logan web
30:14
Speaker 3: was a one. And then when he took his strikeouts
30:18
Speaker 3: to where he took him last last season, I felt
30:21
Speaker 3: like that vaulted him into the into the ace category.
30:24
Speaker 3: But my last one for you, how close or what
30:27
Speaker 3: kind of season does Hunter Brown need to have to
30:30
Speaker 3: be considered an ace in your in your book?
30:33
Speaker 4: Yeah? I think I was.
30:36
Speaker 7: I was a little surprised at how few people we
30:40
Speaker 7: got for him put the put the asterisks that we
30:44
Speaker 7: ask you know for you know, the applicant status. So
30:47
Speaker 7: it's like we asked him, it's like, hey, put a
30:48
Speaker 7: scouting grade on this guy. If he's not yet a one,
30:51
Speaker 7: but you think he could become a one, you know,
30:53
Speaker 7: throw an asterisk, so like Noel McClain gets a bunch,
30:56
Speaker 7: you know, Jacob Mazerowski, Yuri Perez, like all this was
30:59
Speaker 7: guys and a hunter. Brown didn't get as many despite
31:02
Speaker 7: having like I think a two and a half. The
31:03
Speaker 7: ra last year are really good peripheral numbers, and I think,
31:06
Speaker 7: I guess the scouting belief is that he might be
31:09
Speaker 7: closer to capped as a number two, which again, like
31:13
Speaker 7: it makes it sound bad. It's not like you can
31:16
Speaker 7: make hundreds of millions of dollars and win the World
31:18
Speaker 7: Series and be awesome for many, many years. You know,
31:21
Speaker 7: if your strikeout rate is like slightly too low from
31:23
Speaker 7: the scouting perspective, you know, you don't fit the.
31:25
Speaker 4: Characteristics or whatever.
31:26
Speaker 7: I don't know, but yeah, for me, like if he
31:29
Speaker 7: were to do what he did last year again, I
31:32
Speaker 7: might feel silly for not having granted him an application.
31:36
Speaker 7: You know, he probably should be an applicant the more
31:38
Speaker 7: I think about it, But you know, we're just gonna
31:40
Speaker 7: have to let the year shake out and see how
31:43
Speaker 7: embarrassed I should be about these opinions