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“Israel is a moral challenge for our times”: Jason Stanley on the Blue Tsunami · The Real News Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On November 3rd, Democrats secured a historic landslide victory over
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the Republican Party, securing 54 Senate seats and over 250
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: House seats. Five governor seats were also flipped, including in
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: historically red states like Texas, Kansas, Iowa, and Georgia. According
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: to a New York Times estimate, Americans aged 18 to
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: 29 voted overwhelmingly Democrat during the midterms. 70% of voters
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: in the 18 to 29 age group voted for Democratic
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: candidates for the U.S. House of Representatives, a 33-point increase
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: from 2024. Americans aged 18 to 29 also came out
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  Speaker 1: in droves to support Democratic Senate nominees with over 30-point
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  Speaker 1: differences in every competitive Senate race, including 44-point increases in
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  Speaker 1: Mississippi and North Carolina and a whopping 49-point increase in Texas.
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  Speaker 1: In order to understand how this vote shift happened and
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  Speaker 1: why it was so significant, I sat down with Jason Stanley,
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  Speaker 1: the Bissell Hyde Chair in American Studies and the Munk
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: School of Global Affairs and Public Policy at the University
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  Speaker 1: of Toronto, and author of Erasing History, How Fascists Rewrite
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  Speaker 1: the Past to Control the Future, to talk about the
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: issues that swayed young people to vote for Democrats, the
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  Speaker 1: global anti-fascist wave, and a lasting change in American public
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  Speaker 1: opinion on Israel.
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  Speaker 2: Truly, for me as a young person, a shocking election result.
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  Speaker 1: Like seats have flipped that have not been flipped in
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  Speaker 1: my lifetime, four times.
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  Speaker 2: My lifetime.
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  Speaker 1: Like it is one of the most shocking political moments
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  Speaker 1: for me. And were you expecting a blowout this big
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: by the Democrats? And what do you think were kind
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: of the biggest impacts on voters this election cycle?
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  Speaker 3: No one could have predicted the massive scale.
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  Speaker 4: Of this blowout.
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  Speaker 3: It reminds me a bit of what my friends in
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Brazil were saying before the second round of the Brazilian elections.
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: My friend Patricia Campos Mello, the journalist, said.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, I mean, Lula's going to lose because
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: no one ever wins who loses the first round of
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: the election. But if you look at the streets and
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: on social media, it really looks like Lula's going to win.
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  Speaker 4: And I think if we looked at.
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  Speaker 3: The enthusiasm at the content creation by young people on
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  Speaker 3: social media at just the level of enthusiasm.
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  Speaker 4: Look at the powerful.
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  Speaker 3: Image of the students at North Carolina AT & T
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  Speaker 3: marching to the polls far away after their own polls
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  Speaker 3: were shut down. I mean, the excitement and mobilization that
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: can only come when you have youth mobilization. I think
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: that should have told us that this was gonna be massive.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: And we've seen now that the youth vote, the youth
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  Speaker 3: looks like they voted 70% Democrat. They showed up en masse,
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  Speaker 3: a massive shift from 2024. And so I think that
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: was just not predictable. Like that, that the youth, the
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: youth have been really just brutalized by Democrats and Republicans alike.
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  Speaker 3: You know, I don't know really why young people would
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: vote for Democrats given that, you know, what happened to
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: the encampments, what happened to student protesters in 2024, and
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: that happened and was spearheaded by Democrats. So it was
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: the mainstream media, it was the New York Times, it
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: was the Atlantic who's been smashing young people. And then
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  Speaker 3: these very same organizations are like, oh, go vote against Trump.
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  Speaker 4: So young people.
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  Speaker 3: Chose to assert themselves as a voting block with their
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  Speaker 3: political priorities.
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  Speaker 4: And that's the beginning of a change in America. And
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  Speaker 4: I hope.
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  Speaker 3: That that change really, you know, I hope young people
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  Speaker 3: take a leadership role. I'm frankly sick of hearing from
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  Speaker 3: my parents' generation and even my generation.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. It's been really heartening to see.
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  Speaker 1: I think it was an over like 30% shift to
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: the left for young male voters. And do you think
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  Speaker 1: it was just like kind of the, breadth of new
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  Speaker 1: candidates we had, new blood, and especially a more sort
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: of progressive selection of candidates. You know, I think we
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: had candidates that focused on affordability, that focused on, you know,
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  Speaker 1: grassroots issues, that focused on data centers. Do you think
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  Speaker 1: that these kinds of issues had the biggest impacts on
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: voters and especially young voters?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think that young voters, I mean, for young voters,
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  Speaker 3: you know, the Republican Party has completely sold out their future, right?
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  Speaker 3: I mean, the Republican Party is just obviously the party
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  Speaker 3: of billionaires. And, you know, the trick of saying people
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  Speaker 3: who read books are the elite and the billionaires are
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  Speaker 3: the ordinary people is the ordinary, unforgotten man. That trick
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  Speaker 3: just doesn't work with young voters.
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  Speaker 4: I don't think it really ever worked with young voters.
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  Speaker 3: Because I think the problem was that in 2020, the
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  Speaker 3: Democrats sold young voters out, young Americans out. And so
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  Speaker 3: they spearheaded smashing the encampments. They were pals with the
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  Speaker 3: tech elite. They clearly were not from the working class.
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  Speaker 3: I do think, as you say, all the new working
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  Speaker 3: class people candidates are vital. It's really vital to get
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  Speaker 3: working class candidates. I also think it's just a factor
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  Speaker 3: that you can't blame Democrats right now for anything other
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  Speaker 3: than losing to this mess. So, you know, they're not
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  Speaker 3: responsible for the massive cruelty in the United States and
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  Speaker 3: the concentration camps.
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  Speaker 4: They just enabled it by being such factless cowards.
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  Speaker 3: So I think like, not having to own the awfulness
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  Speaker 3: of what America has been doing was a big benefit.
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  Speaker 3: But I think also young voters were like, we better
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  Speaker 3: control this stuff because no one else is, you know,
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  Speaker 3: like without us, it's just not gonna happen. Like these
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  Speaker 3: older people do not know what they're doing. They do
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  Speaker 3: not know. They know how to organize other old people,
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  Speaker 3: but they do not know how to appeal to young people.
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  Speaker 3: And so we young people are gonna figure out ourselves
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  Speaker 3: And this kind of, you know, understanding that young people,
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  Speaker 3: I think, have that this is this is, you know,
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: to to channel El Sayed right now.
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  Speaker 4: You know, it's the fourth quarter.
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  Speaker 3: It's the you know, I mean, the future is genuinely
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: at stake. And it's very clear that the Republicans are,
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: you know, in the corporate dams are are allied with
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  Speaker 3: this future. But it also has to do with also
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: the law. the authenticity of the candidates that were chosen.
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  Speaker 3: And those factors, I think, are essential.
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  Speaker 4: And then, of course, we have to talk about Black
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  Speaker 4: organizing in the South.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And do you kind of see this election as a
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  Speaker 1: decisive rejection by American voters or of the shift toward
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  Speaker 1: Christian nationalism and fascism that we've seen in the last two.
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  Speaker 2: Years brought on by the Trump administration?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think that that movement is not
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  Speaker 3: gonna win as long as young people show up to vote.
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  Speaker 4: So if young people show up to vote, I don't
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  Speaker 4: think they have a chance.
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  Speaker 3: But if you piss young people off and get them
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  Speaker 3: to feel uninvolved in the process and young people are
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: choosing between, you know, corporate Democrats enabling a genocide and
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  Speaker 3: Christian fascism, they're just going to stay home.
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  Speaker 4: So I feel like.
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  Speaker 3: Now that we have more young leaders, I mean, AOC is,
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: you know, is in her mid-30s. And, you know, I mean,
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: now that we have younger leaders, I think that That's
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: the key. Authenticity is going to be the key. And
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: an understanding of the challenges facing my children, like the
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: youth generations. So I think Christian fascism has no answer here.
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  Speaker 3: It just says, you know, you're going to give all
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  Speaker 3: your money to the billionaires. They're going to build data
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  Speaker 3: centers everywhere. AI is going to replace your jobs and,
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: you know, you can, you can be Islamophobic then, you know,
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  Speaker 3: like we give you hate and you can be, and
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: you give us your child, children's futures, your healthcare, and
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  Speaker 3: everything goes to billionaires and to weapons for Israel.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I personally am very excited about Malakiros in Colorado.
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  Speaker 2: You know, people who are not.
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  Speaker 1: Far from age, you know, with me are now, you know,
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  Speaker 1: representing large bases that have been historically run by corporate Democrats.
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  Speaker 2: So it's a very exciting moment. But yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I think the concern we have is that we might
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  Speaker 3: get to a point, I think we've avoided that for now,
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  Speaker 3: where the vote doesn't matter anymore. The United States is
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  Speaker 3: a competitive authoritarian country in the technical political science vocabulary
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  Speaker 3: of Lucan Way, and Steve Levitsky, meaning that you can
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  Speaker 3: win elections still, even though the civil society has been destroyed.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: But you need to win those elections by giant margins,
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  Speaker 3: and this was a giant margin.
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  Speaker 4: So we have to.
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  Speaker 3: Avoid getting near to a point again where elections might
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  Speaker 3: not matter.
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  Speaker 4: It turned out that, you know, Molly.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: Crabapple said to me earlier today, she said, she described
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: Trump as an ADHD fascist. You know, in a sense,
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  Speaker 3: we're lucky that we have an ADHD fascist, because a
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: more effective fascist could have done a lot more to
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  Speaker 3: stop down, to crack down on these elections. Like Steve
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  Speaker 3: Bannon said, of course ICE will be at the polls.
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  Speaker 4: ICE wasn't at the polls.
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  Speaker 3: So You know, they did a lot to try to,
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  Speaker 3: you know, affect the elections, the Supreme Court. The big
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  Speaker 3: issue here, really, for the future of democracy in the
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  Speaker 3: United States is the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court is
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: totally illegitimate. The majority of them were appointed by presidents
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  Speaker 3: who did not have, win the popular vote.
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  Speaker 4: They are an authoritarian, pro-authoritarian, anti-democracy party. pro-billionaire. That's their
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  Speaker 4: only agenda is fascism.
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  Speaker 3: And they have no other agenda other than Christian fascism.
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  Speaker 4: And they have lifetime appointments.
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  Speaker 3: So as we saw with Biden, they did everything to
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  Speaker 3: make sure his presidency wouldn't be successful. They declared student
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: loan debt. They stopped his attempt to forgive student loan debt.
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  Speaker 3: You know, they did everything to stop Biden from being
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  Speaker 3: a successful president. And they will do that with any
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: Democratic president or any any Democratic anything. So because they're
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: for the billionaires, that's just it's just there's no more.
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  Speaker 3: They're a corrupt, you know, evil authoritarian force in American society.
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  Speaker 3: And so that really needs to move up the agenda
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  Speaker 3: of Democrats.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, something about the Supreme Court. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And then, so I want to bring it back to
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  Speaker 1: kind of what you've said about Brazil and international movements.
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  Speaker 1: How do these election results kind of fit in with
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  Speaker 1: other global movements that we're seeing right now? Movements that
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  Speaker 1: have ushered in left-wing victory in Brazil, ushered in protests
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  Speaker 1: run by students in Serbia and France.
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  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
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  Speaker 3: So we're seeing Well, I think we're seeing a global
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: anti-fascist wave, just like we saw a global fascist wave. So,
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: you know, you can never predict these things. After all,
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: I think like the fascists in the United States celebrated
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: too early. I mean, they were like, we have this lockdown,
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: the vote doesn't matter, and they were wrong. So we
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: have to see this as a beginning, but it is
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: definitely global. It's definitely, you know, Brazil was huge because,
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: you know, Lula is, you know, Lula had a very
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: successful third term. He cut down deforestation in the Amazon.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: He cut down extreme poverty by very large amounts. He's
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: a real authentically working class politician. He came from the
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  Speaker 3: working class and he governs for the working class. And
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  Speaker 3: so I think, We are seeing that anti-fascist moment globally.
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  Speaker 3: I hope to see it in Europe. I hope to
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  Speaker 3: see it in Canada. I think Canada, unfortunately, there are
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: some risks in Canada. The far right just won the
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: elections in British Columbia last week.
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  Speaker 4: But this should really turn the tide.
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  Speaker 3: America's Trump's victory in 2024 gave a permission slip. to
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: Europe's fascist parties. And they're all, they all were buoyed
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: by massive popularity. Obviously, Trump supports those parties. The Trump
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: regime supports those parties. But this victory by the Democrats,
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: which obviously it's the most significant of your young life,
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: but it might be the most significant of my, it's
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: certainly the most significant of my.
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: Entire adult life. I mean, comparable to the kind of
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: 2008 Obama victory.
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  Speaker 3: But you know, its message, it's enormous just in terms
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: of the numbers and its message for the world couldn't
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: be more welcome right now. So, you know, I think
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: that Trump and also, you know, for the reputation of
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: the United States, it was a last ditch moment because
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: the United States is pretty much... trailing Iraq, you know, Iran,
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: you know, trailing, trailing, trailing, like, I don't know, the
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Taliban and international and international favorability. I don't know if
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: that's quite true, but we're really in the scraping the basement.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: So I think this this has huge international consequences for
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: the globe, for global anti-fascism, for the global democracy movement.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. And then, yeah, I want to bring it
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: back to young people.
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  Speaker 1: As an educator, what do you want to say to
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: young people about how to meet this moment as activists
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: and organizers.
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  Speaker 2: Who can, you know?
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  Speaker 3: I would say I learned from, as an educator, I'm
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: always learning from young people. I mean, the first time
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: I realized that Minneapolis was going to be big is
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: like internationally big is when A student in my class,
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: first class at University of Toronto, came in with Minneapolis Twins,
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: Minneapolis Sports Regalia. I'm like, do you follow the Twins
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: or whatever?
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: And he was like, no.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: So I think young people know what they're doing. We
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: just need to get out of the way. Young people
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: are doing the organizing work. They're social media savvy. They
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: understand how they understand that, you know, even though these
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: platforms are run by fascists, they still enable, uh, they
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: still enable communication, democratic communication and democratic strategies. So, uh,
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: just look for authenticity in politicians or, you know, uh,
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: look up a politician's net worth. Bernie's not a rich man.
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: You can.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: See who's going to be on your side. And the
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: preachy lectures from old people in the media, anytime anyone
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: is like, well, young people, I'm going to tell young people,
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: given how badly Older generations have screwed this world up.
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: Take everything with a massive grain of salt. Democracy is
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: about agency. It's about freedom. It's about making up your
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: own mind. You are not practicing democracy if you're listening
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: to what older people are telling you. You're practicing democracy
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: when you are making up your own mind and doing
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: your own research. Listen to other young people create your
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: own structures. You're going to be cut off. I can
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: tell you this. You're going to be cut off from
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: large donations. You're going to be cut off from the
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: mechanisms of power that go to older organizers, older. But
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: you can, and there's going to be a desire to
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: compromise in order to get that.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: But that means you're starting to get older when you
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: do that. Yeah. Yeah, totally.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: And then what are some of the biggest differences that
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: you have seen between 2024, which was a contested and
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: low year for young voter turnout, versus 2026?
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: What do you think shifted?
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: What shifted is that young people were not associating Democrats
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: with smashing protest movements. Young people were not associating Democrats
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: with just So with with with, you know, corporate power,
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: young people were I definitely think the smashing of the
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: Gaza protests. And, you know, remember, it was Democrats who
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: led smashing student protests.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: So, you know.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: If you looked at the op-ed page of the New
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: York Times or the Atlantic, it was just attacking young
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: people all the time, attacking protests. And you know, and
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: it was literally, you know, under the Democrats, young people
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: got the causes they cared about. Those causes endangered their futures.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: They're endangered getting them getting jobs. And it just seemed
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: that there was a kind of out of touchness with
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: the lack of a future. So I think Democrats weren't
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: associated with attacking student protesters this time around. Democrats freed
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: themselves from these authoritarian associations and freed themselves. And it
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: just became very, very clear that Republicans are kind of
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: the unabashed party for tech billionaires, for... Obviously, AI is
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: a toxic force that is an existential threat to human meaning,
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: you know, like to the whole reasons my kids are
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: going to school and they spend all this time doing
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: their homework and learning things and.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: It's really hard.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: But, you know, how is that going to help, you know,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: if there are no jobs, if all those things, those
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: jobs get done by.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: AI, you know? Yeah.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: Translators, that used to be such a noble, that's such
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: a noble, I mean, you can go down the line
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: of the different professions that are threatened by AI. So,
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: you know, association, the fact that the Republicans tied themselves
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: so hard to Elon Musk, that Elon Musk basically is
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: the force, Elon Musk and Republicans, that's the same thing.
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: And so, you know, and Elon Musk so obviously just
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: wants to destroy AI. uh, the future of the youth.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: And obviously it's just, I mean, everyone else is a
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: non-player character for him. So, you know, uh, it was
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: just so blatant. And I think young people in 2024 were, uh,
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: were trapped between fascism and, you know, this sort of
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: mealy mouthed, you know, corporate authoritarianism of the Democrats. And,
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: you know, um, I don't blame anyone for voting, for
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: staying at home in 2024, voting for Jill Stein. You know,
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: I felt that it was clear what Trump was going
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: to become, but I understand, I understand after, I understand
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: why you would not be, why you'd be really turned
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: off by what the, by, by certain parts of the
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: Democratic Party.
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: Of course, there was the Green New Deal.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: There were elements of the Inflation Reduction Act. There were
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: things that were really, really positive and good, and they
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: weren't sold correctly. But it wasn't just not selling things correctly.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: It was spearheading the authoritarianism, crushing student movements. I just
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: think it was Trump and the Republicans, they just are
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: Elon Musk. And I think young people... say that Elon
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: Musk is out to get them.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: And I absolutely, as somebody who is present for protests,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: for encampment protests at Cornell University in the city of Ithaca,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: I saw that exact thing.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: I saw protesters brutalized.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: I saw protesters suspended, expelled from the very schools that
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: they're paying to protect them.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: You know, the The corporate Democrats, that structure that is
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: just always seeking donor money, always seeking corporate money.
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: I see this problem everywhere.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: The people with massive money are able to fund things,
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: but it isn't the things.
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: It doesn't mean it's the things that the younger generations
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: are interested in.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: So there is a mismatch between what money is available,
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: who has the largest pockets, and what the actual concerns
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: of people are. And so the Democrats fell prey to
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: that again and again.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: And then, yeah, that brings me to just, I believe,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: two more, three more questions. But Campaigns that leaned on
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: support for Israel, both from Republicans and from centrist Democrats
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: in the primaries, largely failed to deliver this cycle, especially
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: in Michigan, where now one of the most progressive senators was,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: or were to be senators when elected. Are we witnessing
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: a lasting change in American public opinion on Israel?
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: Exit polls show the majority of Michigan's Jewish voters voted
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: for Al Sayed.
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: So- we are definitely witnessing that. We have witnessed that.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: And we're also seeing it as an authenticity test because
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: young people know more than anyone else that if you
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: go to a protest in support of Palestine, you're risking
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: your future, you're risking your connections, you're risking... And so
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: they can tell, they can look to politicians and say,
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: who's willing to make.
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: That risk for morality? And so.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: It's both a moral challenge for our times because, you know,
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm now talking to you from Canada, which
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: is not a country that sends billions of dollars, you know,
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: is like tightly connected to the IDF and Israel's military,
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: like the United States military is tightly connected. Canada doesn't
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: send billions of dollars a year to Israel. Canada doesn't
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: sell massive weapon, do massive weapon sales to Israel. But
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: in the United States, it's your moral obligation because that
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: is the country you're in.
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: You're in a country where.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: Really your military is connected to Israel's military. The whole structure,
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: those two countries are deeply linked together. So you have
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: a moral obligation to say something about it. And people
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: don't want that anymore. People don't want, American Jews, I
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: don't think, don't want it anymore. Our institutions say, you know,
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: American Jewish institutions say to be American is to support,
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: to be Jewish is to support Israel. But increasingly that is,
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: certainly Jewish people, American Jews under 40 reject that.
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: And, you know, we're reacting.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: I think, you know, you see the biggest supporters of
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: Israel are Christian nationalists because Israel is, the vision of
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Israel that the Israeli right.
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: Gives us is a Jewish nationalist vision.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: And so the Christian nationalists are supporting that just like,
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: you know, they support Hindu nationalism or any other form
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: of exclusionary nationalism. And, you know, and I think Americans
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: are increasingly seeing that they don't want to be morally
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: associated with those kind of nationalist projects. And When they
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: think that through, I think many Americans will also turn
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: against Christian nationalism.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: And then, yeah, so with Democrats now in control, what
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: are the biggest changes you expect to see in 2027?
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: I expect to see accountability for the corruption. So the
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: kind of kleptocratic corruption that we're seeing in the United
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: States is like nothing new. you know, it's so blatant.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: It's so, you know, out there that there must be accountability.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: There must be investigations. I mean, there's no rule of
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: law in the United States.
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: You can just, if you, you know, you.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: Can go for the presidency and you can massively enrich yourself.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: And I hope this doesn't just stop at, I hope
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: there's an anti-corruption movement.
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: The anti-corruption movement doesn't just stop with Republicans.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: I think I think we need Democrats who, you know,
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: want to live a middle-class life.
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: They don't want a yacht. They don't want to hang
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: out with billionaires.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: I don't want to see my Democratic politicians on somebody's
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: yacht anymore.
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: I'm not interested in those politicians.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: So, you know, I'm hoping an anti-corruption, anti-kleptocracy, I'm hoping
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: a reaction against wealth And I'm hoping that the Democrats
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: just really investigate the corruption and really investigate the cruelty,
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: the massive cruelty that we've meted out against hardworking people
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: in the United States who are living in concentration camps
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: under some of the most brutal conditions imaginable. So I
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: want to see everything that didn't happen after Muslim Americans
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: were subjected to, after 9-11, plus the torture regime, et cetera,
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: and the financial crisis. None of that got investigated. I
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: want to see something different now. I want to see
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: the Democrats investigate the cruelty to immigrants, investigate. I want
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: to see them disband ICE.
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: We don't need ICE. We do not need it.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: Military inside the US borders. And so I see that
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: and I want to see a movement to begin to
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: dismantle the Supreme Court, to figure out what to do
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: with the Supreme Court term limits on justices, expand the court,
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: something like that. I mean, I should also add, I
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: don't want to see a Democratic Party that throws scapegoated
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: groups under the bus.
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: I don't want to see.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: Our trans American fellow citizens being vilified for political gain.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: I don't want to see Americans, Democratic politicians, join in
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: that toxic hatred. I really am very concerned about the
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: way that trans Americans have been otherized. I'm very concerned
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: about the way that Muslims have been, Muslim Americans have
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: been otherized. And the otherization has to stop. We need
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: to stop that other. There's one group and one group
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: alone that you can legitimately otherize because they can get
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: out of that identity very easily. And that's billionaires. We
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: can otherize billionaires because they can just give their money
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: away and they're not billionaires anymore. But nobody else should
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: be otherized. You know, that is that is, you know,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: that that. Once you otherize one group, that is an identity,
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: a religion, an ethnicity, a.
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: Gender, a.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: Gender identity, a sexual orientation. Once you begin that process,
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: it's a little fascist permission slip to broaden it.