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Insider Tips for Building a Career in Marine Science · How To Protect The Ocean

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I wanted to take time out of our regularly scheduled program to talk
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about careers in marine science and conservation.
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There have been a lot of you who have reached out to me over the years to
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talk about careers. How do I get into this career? Do you know of
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any jobs that are available in this? And where should I
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begin? And I don't know anybody in the field and so forth.
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And I wanted to take the time today on this episode of
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the How to Protect the Ocean podcast to be able to reach out
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and say, hey, you know what? Here's what I would do if
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I were to do it all over again. And the reason I'm doing this is
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because I'm kind of in a period of my life where
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my daughter wants to become a wildlife biologist. And
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she's going to take zoology in university. She's about a year out. She's a
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senior in high school. And we're talking
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about careers. We're talking about what she needs to be able to do.
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And I have some ideas for her based on how things have changed since I
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started and where I think some things that I've learned and
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advice that I would like to give her. And I kind of want to shoot it
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out to you as well, for those of you who are looking for jobs and
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trying to build a career in marine science and conservation. So
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with that said, let's start the show and talk about marine
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careers. Hey
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everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.
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I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with
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the ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, what you can do to live for
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a better ocean by taking action. Now, I
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am a marine science communicator. That's what
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I do. I'm a conservation and science communicator. I am a psycommer. That's
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what I love to do. I love to talk about the ocean. I love to engage with
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conversations about the ocean, about climate change, about the issues facing the
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ocean, like climate change, and being able to
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give advice on career paths and, you know, where
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to find careers. I manage a Facebook group with
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over 25,000 people where we discuss you
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know in post conservation jobs and there's talk about conservation
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and where people should go to get a job in
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conservation and how they should build up their experience and
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how they should begin their career really a lot of people are struggling
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to find jobs after they finish
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their schooling And it could be for a variety of different reasons. One,
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it's just difficult to get a job these days. The job market is not
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easy in any sort of industry, whether you're looking at
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science or you're looking at business, it doesn't matter. It's
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a very difficult industry to break into in general, and
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then you're adding on to a difficult time to find a job. It
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makes it really hard to find jobs. But you
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want to be able to like the advice I'd like to give you today is
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just sort of managing your marine conservation career for
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the long term and understanding that it's not a
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straight path from school when you decide to become a
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marine biologist or marine conservationist all the way to the end of
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your career. there's going to be times where you're going to meander, there's
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going to be times where you're going to fall and you're going to take risks and it's going to
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work out and sometimes it's not going to work out. There's going to be times where you
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may find a job and you may work in that forever. I highly doubt it, there's
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going to be a lot of changes but the industry has changed.
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for for better or for worse it's changed just
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like the world changes like the ocean has changed it's
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evolved and we've seen a lot of different changes from secured
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government positions to going out on your own and risking um
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a lot you know risking your lifestyle risking your money for
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your family and your mortgage and all that kind of stuff so what i
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want to do is kind of give you a breakdown of what you
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know, marine science and conservation career looks like, what, how
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can it impact your lifestyle, managing risk within
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that and sort of understanding, you
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know, what those risks are and how that could affect your life. And also, I
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want to say this before I really begin is, I'm
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still going through it, right? I'm 45, I'm going to be
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turning 46 in a couple of weeks. And it's
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going to be, you know, I'm still going through it. I haven't figured
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out anything. there are a lot of people who give job advice and
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we're all still just kind of figuring things out and we're sharing our
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experiences and we're sharing our advice based
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on what's happened to us and our lifestyle and where we sit you
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know sort of in lifestyle and you know whether we're middle class lower
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middle class upper middle class above that whatever that
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might be I would consider myself middle class at
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this point, maybe a little on the upper middle class. I have a very different
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experience from many of you who may not sit
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in that category or may not be a white male
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in this industry. So I'm coming at you from my experience
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and I'm giving you advice based on my experience and based on the
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experiences that I've talked to people with and seen them go through.
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And also I have another podcast that I co-host called Beyond Jaws where
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we talk to shark scientists from all over the world
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and talk about how they work and where they go and what
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they do in their niche, in their industry, in their field, and
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be able to be successful. And their success is defined differently.
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Everybody's success is defined differently. It really comes down to
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what do you want to accomplish within your career? How
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do you want to accomplish it? And how do you want to live through it as
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a father? Who's giving advice to
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his daughter who's going into a great 12 in
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high school? So seniors for a lot of you Americans, you know, she's
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gonna be a senior and you know looking at where
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she wants to go, go to university, what type of job she wants to do. As
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a dad, I always look at, well, what kind of lifestyle do you want? Do
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you want family? Do you want to be close to family? Do you want to live
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around the world? How are you going to do that? Safety, and
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what kind of jobs you can get. Are they sustainable? Are they something that
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you can actually build a lifestyle around? The
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world is a lot different place than when I started. I bought my house
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for probably a fraction of what the house is worth today in the
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place that I in the city that I live today and a lot of cities around the
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world it's more expensive to live houses and and housing or
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any kind of residence that you want to buy or rent is extremely expensive
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now and so a lot of the salaried positions or
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paid positions within this industry is
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not that high, hasn't risen to the level where it's considered
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to be within par of renting or buying
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a residence. So as a dad and seeing my daughter graduating
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into that lifestyle, I worry and I want
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to make sure that she understands what the risks are and
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where she can go. And so that will be,
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it's gonna be an interesting conversation and we're gonna try and figure out together, but
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I wanted to give you this advice and sort of give you this
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breakdown of the industry and what you can do with it
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and how it might affect your lifestyle, where you're coming
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from. And I would also love to hear your, before I go into
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it all, I would love to hear you know, how
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it's affected you, if you're mid-career, if you're early career, if
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you're late career, I'd love to hear your stories. You
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can either DM me or maybe we can do an interview on the podcast and
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get that experience going. and sharing it with other people.
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But let's just get into sort of the breakdown. Now, when
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I first started back in, you know, my university
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career started in 1997. So it's been a long time. And
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I've had, you know, job advice throughout my entire career. But
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back then, the big push in Canada was to say,
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hey, we're gonna see a lot of
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baby boomers start, I'm Generation X, we're gonna see a lot of baby
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boomers start to retire soon. So you're graduating
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at a great time, you're taking school at a great time, because a lot of places in
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the government, which was like at that time, if you got hired by the
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government right out of school, you probably had that job or something similar
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within the government until you retire at the age of 55, which
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a lot of government employees were retiring at. And we're like,
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OK, that's great. This is wonderful. Then 2000 hit. And
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the stock market crash hit. And the dot-com bubble crash happened.
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And you're like, oh, OK, not as many people are retiring because
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their retirement went to crap. And so when
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I graduated in 2001, there weren't many jobs available.
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and you know the internet wasn't as abundant as we had now where jobs
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are being posted on the internet all the time and you can you know you had like in
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like indeed.com and all these different job sites where you can apply
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quickly and LinkedIn and all this kind of stuff it wasn't like that there
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were jobs being posted but you had to apply like through email or
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you had to apply you know via like letter sometimes
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and so that was difficult so the jobs were more regional back
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then it was very difficult to get a job if I lived in Canada to get a job in
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the U.S. although I did eventually find something in the U.S. but I
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feel as though I lucked out when I first got that first job because
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the people who I replaced basically quit a week before I
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called to get hired and had the interview on the spot and
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was down within a week of that working for about
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eight months in the ocean. So you know, it's
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a very different time right now. And what we've seen, like, you know, I talked about
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the government jobs, and this was happening at the government level
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in the US and in Canada, we started to see a switch in
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the way the government handled hiring people.
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And what was happening is before, here in Canada, you would get a lot
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of, you'd get hired as a permanent staff, full-time staffer, and
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then you would work for, you know, 30, 40 years, and
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then you would retire. And the same thing would happen in the US federally. and
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as well as provincially state and state level. And
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that was the cream of the crop. If you got to work with government,
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you got great benefits. You got a great, you
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were unionized most likely. So you got, you know, vacation
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and sick leave and dental and health and depending on where
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you lived. in which country lived and then it was that was
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wonderful like that was the time to say hey government job
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will pay you well you get a pension you know you're you're set up
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for retirement and everything like that you can retire early at full pension
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and still be able to consult and do other things and it's it's a
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wonderful feeling and you and you get to contribute to your you
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know, a government or, you know, some data and build a program
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or continue on a long lasting program and so forth. And that
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was wonderful. That's changed. That's changed quite a
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bit. In the US, it's changed into the, sorry, I'll start
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in Canada. In Canada, it's changed where now they hire you full time,
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but you're not permanent. You're temporary, right? And
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so when you get hired as temporary, you basically have maybe a
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year, a two or three year renewal. So
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if it's a year, it's an annual renewal. You don't know if you have a job at the end of that
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fiscal year. So in federal government, you go from April 1st
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to March 31st of the next year. And so at the end of that March
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31st, you may not know a week before if you
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have a job or not. You may be signing your paperwork if it's an annual renewal.
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And people were doing that for 25 years, 30 years, 40 years. They were retiring
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off of it. They were hired as a temporary full-time staff.
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Now, they got all the benefits, and they got the pension, and they got everything, but
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they never knew if they were going to get hired for the long term. A
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lot of them that had been there for a long time kind of went through the motions, and it was
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less risky, but for me as someone who was young, I was like, oh,
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well, this isn't, I got a family to feed. Like, I need something more permanent. I
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would like something more permanent. But what I quickly realized is
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that, and I worked in the private consulting industry before, that
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wasn't a permanent thing and the pension wasn't a pension it
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was you put into a 401k or an rsp if you live in canada and
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uh you would get a bonus you get paid less to keep your hourly rate down but
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you get a bigger bonus and so that would go towards retirement and you'd have to
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almost save for your own retirement now so you're not in a government job
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where you have a pension But you have a private job where
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they're giving you extra money because they're going for profit and they want
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to keep you around if you're good. And if you're not good, if you don't like you, boom,
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if you don't get along with others, you're gone or you're laid off because they
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don't have enough jobs or you're not billable full time or at the 85% that you want. So
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doing private consulting or even consulting on your own is a very difficult
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process because it all depends on how well you can network, how
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well you can build relationships with clients and
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have them come back to you for every single project and build that
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rapport with clients and build that sort of roster of clients so you
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continue to have that as you go along. I've tried working
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for a firm and tried working within there and I've tried working on my
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own. They're both challenging in their own right. If
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you go to a private consulting firm and you can bring
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in jobs, like you're good at doing proposals and
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looking for grants and money and things like that. then
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you can succeed quite well. If you're somebody who's depending on
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other people to get jobs, it really depends on how well you can network within.
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And sometimes networking with different scientists and a company managed by
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scientists is not always easy because what you
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think you do right is not something that they may like or
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not. So it's not an easy gig. Plus
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you are working for industry. you're working
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for or you know companies that are could or
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have a potential doing harm to the environment you're working to make sure that they they
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work within the regulations and things but There's
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definitely a Sense and a lot of people get burnt out by
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the fact like hey I don't really want to be helping these companies pollute more oil
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and gas mining companies and so forth It's
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it could be a difficult thing to really think about now You can
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work for government as a consultant you can work for all these kind of
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things that consultant But it's hard to get those jobs and one of the things where I
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saw that the signs when I was consulting on my own is I got a
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government contract, it was in marine conservation, it was with mapping, and I
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was doing really well, and I was really liking it, and then all of a sudden I
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started to, you know, I tried to apply for another, another sort
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of consulting opportunity. They're saying, oh, we can't, the government can't show
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favoritism towards you again by hiring you twice, even though
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I was well qualified for the job. it was just the way it
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went so I was like well you know if I can't get the job based on merit or
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based on you know they don't want to show favoritism that doesn't leave a
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lot of security for me. At the time I had
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two young kids, I had a mortgage to pay, I had a family to help
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support with my wife who works thank God and I
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decided to get out of that business. because
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it was difficult, because I couldn't really get the contracts that
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I needed to put in my support
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of the family at that time. And so that's
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sort of the nature of private consulting. It's still kind of the same
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whether you're on your own or you're with a firm. There
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could be a lot of money in it for you down the road, but it really depends on
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what your goal is. You can do a lot of fieldwork or you
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can do a lot of paperwork. Again, it really depends within private
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consulting what that goal is. With government, the jobs tend
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not to change, but you're at the will of the
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political party that's in power. So sometimes you'll get a political party
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that wants to inject money into science and into conservation, and
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then others you'll get a political party who wants to cut government spending. And
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so that means they're going to cut support for the public sector, whether it
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be in science, whether it be in statistics, whether
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it be just in people power in general.
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and they cut things. So I was part in Canada, I was part
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of a series of layoffs or people
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being affected at their regular positions because the Conservative
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government of Canada at the time, led by Prime Minister Harper, wanted
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to cut stock assessments, wanted to cut the amount of time it took to
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do environmental assessments. He eventually wanted to cut the Species
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at Risk Act down so that it wouldn't be
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as difficult or as long to do an assessment for
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oil and gas projects. He got some of that done, but
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he didn't get all of that done before he got voted out. That
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wasn't the reason why he got voted out, it was for other reasons. You
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just never know. You're at the behest of the political group in power for the
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government. You get to work with some pretty cool people across
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this industry, but that's sort of the nature of government. So governments change, private
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consulting kind of stays the same, but it could be difficult. There could be
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a lot of challenges of working within that. Now, nonprofit organizations, you
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can do some great work, some really rewarding work, and you can
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do some great things. You can travel around the world depending on the organization. However,
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you're probably not going to get paid a lot. These organizations are
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led and supported by grant and foundation money which
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has changed in their structure in terms of how they give money out. A
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lot of organizations can only give a certain percentage to overhead which is
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basically to their staff which is a main portion of
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their overhead. And so when they get a grant from an organization or
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a grant from a foundation, then these organizations
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can only dedicate a certain amount of money towards salaries and
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benefits and supporting their staff. So
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that means the pay is a lot lower because not a lot of those grants
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and individual donations may not be enough to support the rest.
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that can be a difficult part. So organizations, a
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lot of big organizations tend to hire early career
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researchers because they don't have to pay them as much, but they don't get the same experience, so
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they don't get the same data in their documents. That could be a challenge for
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that organization, plus a challenge for early career or
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mid or late career scientists and
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staff because they may not get paid a lot. you
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know if they want to stay in a lot of these organizations started forty five thousand
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dollars u s if that's not a lot of money to support yourself these
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days you know to buy a house or rent an apartment or
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do whatever it can be very difficult and i know people who work in the non-profit
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or organization and they don't have they may not have a lifestyle that you'd
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expect you know they may not have a house they may not be able to be ready
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which is fine there's nothing wrong with that not saying there's anything wrong with that
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But if people grow up in this industry, I think a lot of times we have this
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sort of grandioso expectations of
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what we'd expect to do as a marine conservationist or a marine
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scientist. And we don't always get that. We don't always
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see the rewards. And the pay is definitely
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not up there. We get the rewards of the job. And
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that's great. But you have to support yourself. You have to have that lifestyle. Some
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people will get burnt out. Some people are like, I need to earn money. I need to go out and
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do stuff. and that's what they'll do eventually, and they'll maybe
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work in a different industry, and maybe stay on a board of directors, or
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they'll do something else. Or they'll go on their own and try and consult on
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their own, which again is challenging, but it's possible. People
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do this stuff all the time, but not as many people do
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it. More and more people are doing it because they can control those things. So
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there are a lot of things that will help you, or
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there are a lot of things that are good about every, you know, advantages and disadvantages to
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every sector, but it can be very difficult to
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work in that. Non-profit organizations or large organizations or
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small organizations or medium-sized organizations, what I would say
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when you look at these organizations, look at how long people stay,
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ask them how long people stay. If they stay for a long time,
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that means this organization is good to their people. and
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you know you know 10 years 15 years even over five
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years is great to see if there's a lot of turnover that means
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they're you know their their grants may not come in all the time they
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may have to lay people off at times you don't want
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to be working for free you want to be working you know for pay
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and and to work for an organization to volunteer to
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get experience is one thing but to do that as a long term thing unless you're
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a rich billionaire is really difficult to do and
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be able to eat and be able to survive on your own. I
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feel like being in marine science and conservation is one
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of those industries where people, especially early career, including myself, when
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I was early career and I just got out of school, I'm like, I'll work
20:13
for free. I'll go out on a boat for free. I'll do that because that looks fun. I
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can't wait to do that. That's what I've been dreaming about since I
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was 14 years old. That's what I've been looking at libraries and
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just thinking about and visualizing what I can do. And
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I'll do it for free. I'll do that work for free. I even volunteered to do statistical analysis
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for free when I was younger. Why? Why would I do that? Because
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I loved the job so much. I loved doing it so much and I was so enthusiastic. But
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the problem is there are organizations out there, there are people out there that will kind
20:42
of predate on people like that and take advantage of
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your willingness and passion to do the type of work. So
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if you're going into a consulting role or you want to do work and get experience,
20:53
that's one thing. But also understand that you are
20:57
a professional at this point. If you have a BSC, an undergrad degree
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or a graduate degree, then you are a professional. You deserve to be paid.
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And the more times we start to say, and as a staff, we
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start to fight back and be like, we need to get paid for this job, this is for a professional, the
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better it is. When you join my group, Marine Science and Conservation Careers, in
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the Facebook group, I don't allow, I control all the
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posts. I do not allow people to post things just
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based on a volunteership unless I see some sort of mentorship or
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internship happen through there. In the U.S. there are specific laws
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if you advertise for an internship, it either has
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to be paid or there has to be some sort of mentorship. There's rules and
21:36
regulations around what you post based on like the Ministry of Labor
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or the Department of Labor. I'm not too sure the laws there. But that's what
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it should be. So I'm very particular about the types of jobs
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that get posted. Same in my LinkedIn group, my marine biologists group. that
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jobs group is important for me because i'm like i only want to do was paid
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positions and if people are putting up the salaries i'll all you know
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prioritize based on posting you know post that are job
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posts that have the salaries within it because people need to know what
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they're applying for not to take my time take two weeks to apply
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to a job where it's gonna be like
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forty five thousand dollars a year i'm sorry forty five years old You
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know, I have a mortgage. I have kids who are going to university. I have,
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you know, this is not a time where I can work for $45,000 a
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year. You know, I need to be able to, you
22:28
know, make ends meet. I need to be able to help support my
22:31
family. And that's just the way the reality is
22:35
of it. So there's certain jobs that I cannot apply for because I need
22:38
to know. But I need to know the salaries before I apply to these jobs. Because some of these jobs require
22:41
a lot of experience, but they only pay under $50,000 a year. And
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at this point, for me, I mean, for an early career researcher, it might
22:48
be good. Or early career scientists and conservationists, that might be good. but
22:52
for me at this point in my life it's just not that good. So you're adjusting
22:56
as you grow into the industry, as you start to evolve into the
22:59
industry and as you get older and your priorities change and you have a family or
23:02
if you decide to have a family, that's how it's going to change and that's how
23:06
you need to look at it and look at salary expectations. And
23:09
the salary expectations not only work for when companies
23:13
ask you, but when you ask the companies, like, what do you expect to pay for us? What's the
23:16
range? More and more companies and organizations are putting up their ranges, which
23:20
is great to see, but we still need to push for that. As people
23:24
who are trying to apply to jobs, it should be there. You shouldn't
23:28
demand the best of the best at $45,000 a year. You
23:31
should expect, like, this should be the people we expect, early
23:35
career scientists, one or two years, out of college or out of
23:38
university and be able to, you know, have that type of experience and build that
23:41
type of experience. There's nothing wrong with that. But when you're 45 years
23:44
old and you've got, you know, 20 some odd years experience in
23:49
sort of the field, then that salary needs to be upped
23:53
and that salary needs to be appropriate for that person with that experience. you
23:58
know I'm not bringing this to me this is again it's my experience and
24:01
I wanted to kind of give you that thought process and to give you hey this
24:05
is your career you do what you want but I want you
24:09
to really understand sort of the the
24:12
differences in what is expected not only in
24:16
a job but in a lifestyle as I mentioned before marine
24:19
biology and marine conservationists we are very passionate
24:23
about the work we'll do. We'll do work for free. We'll do work on top of
24:26
work, like as volunteers, even though we have a job in marine
24:29
science and conservation, because we love what we do. We'll have pet projects. We'll
24:33
always have those projects that we do, whether we're Dr. Andrew Thaler
24:36
and we get some of that funded through Patreon, or we're just somebody who's
24:40
just really enthusiastic and has data available and wants to publish
24:43
a paper on it. We could do that, but you also
24:46
have to understand that you have a life beyond work. And
24:51
there's a huge push with corporate jobs and things like that to understand that
24:54
you work 9 to 5 or you work certain type of hours. Your off
24:58
hours should be your hobbies. It shouldn't necessarily be all
25:01
enthralled in work. I've seen a lot of people get burnt out
25:05
by the work they do in marine science and conservation. They want to do so much.
25:08
They want to build their experience, especially when you're young and you want to hustle. That's
25:12
fine. You have the energy. You may not have the commitments, the family commitments, or
25:15
the financial commitments. And you can take more risks. you
25:19
know and travel a little bit or or do a volunteership if
25:22
you can afford it and it's worthwhile or you can move to
25:25
a different city for a little bit and build a you know life in that
25:29
city if that's going to be a long-term life or just move for a little bit come back
25:32
home and go somewhere else that's great that's great that you're able
25:36
to do that when you're younger but as you grow older you your
25:39
your commitments financial and family commitments may change as you go
25:42
through as you go through life and so you need to realize that
25:46
you need to realize that there are things And there are things to do
25:49
and hobbies to have outside of work after
25:53
that time and to have that break. Everybody needs
25:56
a break. You can't think about it all the time. No matter who you are
26:00
and what you think, you're going to need a break at some time. You're going to need to shut your
26:03
mind off at some time. And having that downtime
26:07
with family or with friends or doing a hobby is
26:11
really great. And it's really helpful for you to be able to do that.
26:15
and not always worry about money. That's a big thing. I can't stress
26:19
that enough when I give advice about marine science and conservation
26:22
careers. That's a huge, huge thing is be able to support yourself
26:26
in the lifestyle that you want to lead. You might be a
26:29
minimalist. You might be okay with, you know, renting
26:32
apartments. That's great. But just understand that
26:36
there are different options within the marine science and conservation world,
26:39
and there are different pay options within that world. And be prepared to
26:43
take lower than normal salary than a lot of your friends, but also be prepared
26:47
to have some pretty cool adventures as well. One
26:51
sector I didn't mention is going the professor route or going the
26:54
researcher route within a university. And that will require you to
26:57
do more graduate work, so a master's and
27:00
or a PhD, or just a PhD without a master's. That
27:05
is something that you can do. Be advised. There's going
27:08
to be a lot more that you have to pay in terms of graduate school.
27:12
Not only the tuition, but also your lifestyle surrounding that.
27:15
You still have to live somewhere. You still have to be able to do things. You
27:19
know, going to conferences and things like that. If you want to build an academic career, you
27:22
can do that. And you can become a professor. Just realize that
27:26
there aren't as many universities there are marine science and conservationists. And
27:29
when you go through university, they try and put you through to you
27:33
know the professor track or the academic track because that's what they know but
27:36
it doesn't necessarily mean you have to follow that academic career if
27:40
you want to become a professor you want to try that out that's great go the professor
27:43
route you know do the phd do the postdoc do
27:46
another postdoc if you have to stay within that research bounce
27:50
out into government and organizations and bounce back in
27:53
You know, see how you can build up your teaching experience through your graduate work,
27:58
build your networking opportunities through going to conferences and
28:01
things like that. It doesn't matter what sector you work on, that's going to be important. But
28:05
if you want to be that professor, that's great. You can earn a decent salary. Just remember
28:08
that tenure track professorship has changed. And
28:13
people who are on tenure track don't always get to
28:17
be a tenured professor. So there's not always a guaranteed job if
28:20
you become an assistant professor or an associate professor. That's
28:23
not always guaranteed to be full tenure anymore. You
28:28
don't see that a lot if you see that at all. There's going to
28:31
be a pressure to do more teaching. And there's going to be a, you
28:34
know, it's sort of like you become more of a teacher role. In
28:37
the U.S., a lot of your salary is coming from the grants that you take or
28:41
that you get. In Canada, it's a little bit different. I
28:44
don't know about other countries. So if you're a professor in other countries, I'd love to hear the differences
28:47
in terms of salary. If you're given like a good base salary
28:51
and if you are allowed to get money like in the U.S. from grants that
28:55
you bring in. Universities want to see money coming
28:59
in. They want to see benefits in terms of products and things
29:02
like that. Conservation related material and science related material doesn't
29:06
always translate into what a dean of that school wants,
29:09
whether biological sciences or science or marine science or things like that. A
29:13
lot of the times they want to be able to, this university wants to be able to generate money
29:16
and revenue more revenue from the products that are made by those professors and
29:20
maybe being able to sold. So biotechnology is big. And
29:23
you'll see a lot of deans really move their science
29:26
department more towards health sciences than marine sciences because you
29:31
can publish 80 papers on conservation, but
29:34
it doesn't necessarily mean that the university likes that because you're not necessarily
29:37
bringing in a ton of money to that. And
29:41
part of that is students, graduate students and things like that. But there's this revenue
29:44
from products or services that could be generated. So. That's
29:48
sort of the breakdown of sort of where we're at in today's world from
29:52
what I know. I would love to know if you have any sort of
29:55
different experience or perspective. If you wanna come on the podcast and talk about
29:58
it and share that perspective, that would be great. I would love to have you on.
30:01
If you wanna just share it in a comment on YouTube or
30:05
a comment on Spotify or DM me and then you want me to share it, I can share
30:08
it or we can have conversations around that. That's gonna be on Instagram, just
30:12
DM me at howtoprotecttheocean. Also remember that
30:15
I have an app coming out It's probably going to be pushed to September. I'm
30:19
working with the company, this is the first time they do this app. It's basically a community app.
30:24
What I wanted to do was be able to post everything that I post and all the information that
30:27
I post in this app so that you don't have to worry about algorithms and not
30:30
receiving certain information but you get all ocean all
30:34
the time whenever you go into that app. We'll do an ask me
30:37
anything type of of sort
30:41
of services. There'll be some upgraded and premium services and
30:44
products in there. But it's basically going to be an all you can, you
30:48
know, for this for this podcast, as well as for Speak Up
30:51
for Blue. So it's going to be great. I'm looking forward to it. But be aware
30:55
that's coming out as well. And I hope you enjoyed this episode of
30:58
the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm your host, Angelo. And I want you to have a great day.