Latest / Pursuit of Sassiness / Let Someone Else Solve Your Dating Problems

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Let Someone Else Solve Your Dating Problems · Pursuit of Sassiness

0:13
Speaker 1: Welcome back to I Do Part two with your celebrity
0:16
Speaker 1: mentor Kelly ben Simone. Just like you, guys, I'm out
0:19
Speaker 1: there dating in my I Do Part two era. And
0:23
Speaker 1: if you're single and dating like me, you know that
0:25
Speaker 1: sometimes it's hard to meet great eligible men when you
0:29
Speaker 1: have a busy schedule, and dating apps can be super disappointing.
0:33
Speaker 1: So I wanted to explore our conversation around professional matchmakers.
0:38
Speaker 1: The company has been around for over thirty five years
0:40
Speaker 1: and they've been featured on Good Morning America, The Today Show,
0:43
Speaker 1: Entertainment Tonight, and more. They are the real deal. Please
0:48
Speaker 1: welcome Jennifer Will's President, chief Growth Officer with Kella Hurr International. Jennifer,
0:55
Speaker 1: I'm super excited to talk to you. Kella hur International
0:58
Speaker 1: came highly recommended by someone associated with this podcast who
1:02
Speaker 1: had really successful dates. So tell our audience a little
1:06
Speaker 1: bit about Kelliher International. How long have you been in
1:09
Speaker 1: business and how did you get involved?
1:11
Speaker 2: Okay, well, thanks for the nice lead in. So kelliher
1:16
Speaker 2: has been around for almost forty years. We're one of
1:19
Speaker 2: the oldest and largest players in the field. We specialize
1:25
Speaker 2: in elite or executive matchmaking services, so people who are successful,
1:31
Speaker 2: but who are ready to be intentional about how they're
1:33
Speaker 2: approaching finding this next relationship, whether it's the first, the second,
1:37
Speaker 2: the third, whatever it might be. But they've decided to
1:40
Speaker 2: prioritize this and focus on it the way they would
1:44
Speaker 2: any other important aspect of their life. I've been with
1:47
Speaker 2: the firm since twenty sixteen. I kind of actually fell
1:52
Speaker 2: into it a little bit. I'm an attorney and have
1:54
Speaker 2: a finance background, and I had decided to leave my
1:59
Speaker 2: previous position as in house counsel for a company in
2:02
Speaker 2: New York and a friend of mine was working here
2:05
Speaker 2: and invited me in to meet with the founders, which
2:08
Speaker 2: I did for an entire day, and then they were
2:11
Speaker 2: stuck with me. After that, I just fell in love
2:14
Speaker 2: with the business. I fell in love with them. There
2:17
Speaker 2: are really very few things that you can do in
2:19
Speaker 2: this world where you're truly transforming people's lives and having
2:24
Speaker 2: such a meaningful impact on not only their romantic life,
2:28
Speaker 2: but their overall relationships and happiness in the world.
2:33
Speaker 1: So we're going to get into that because you guys
2:35
Speaker 1: are twofold. But I wanted to address one thing. It's
2:39
Speaker 1: the embarrassment and the shame some that we're seeing of matchmakers,
2:45
Speaker 1: and if a matchmaker is I think the matchmaker does
2:48
Speaker 1: more vetting and it makes you feel better that there
2:52
Speaker 1: is a third party kind of you know, being a
2:55
Speaker 1: part of this, especially with someone like you or you're
2:57
Speaker 1: not only the third party matchmaking, but also you're counseling
3:03
Speaker 1: your clients, which is great. But tell me about some
3:05
Speaker 1: of the perks of using a professional matchmaker.
3:09
Speaker 2: Well, there are a lot of perks to it. There's
3:12
Speaker 2: the efficiency aspect. Most people that we work with, they
3:15
Speaker 2: are very strong in their professional situation. They may have
3:21
Speaker 2: great families already, but they don't have a lot of
3:23
Speaker 2: time and it's really the one thing that nobody can recreate.
3:27
Speaker 2: So providing a level of efficiency meaning that when we're
3:30
Speaker 2: making these introductions, they're targeted. We've essentially gone on coffee
3:35
Speaker 2: dates with the candidates, so to speak. We've met them,
3:38
Speaker 2: we've interviewed them, we've background checked, They've had to go
3:40
Speaker 2: through an extensive diligence period with us, so we know them.
3:45
Speaker 2: So there's going to be a level of presumptive alignment
3:51
Speaker 2: on fundamental values. That really is an open issue. If
3:56
Speaker 2: you meet somebody just out in the world or online,
3:58
Speaker 2: they're essentially represents to you whatever it is that they
4:02
Speaker 2: think that you want to hear, whereas we are really
4:05
Speaker 2: digging into who people are, asking a lot of open
4:08
Speaker 2: ended questions and trying to understand. There's also the accountability piece.
4:12
Speaker 2: When you meet somebody in another format, they can just disappear, right.
4:19
Speaker 2: It's much more difficult to do that with a matchmaker
4:22
Speaker 2: because we're following along and they're accountable to us and
4:25
Speaker 2: we're taking feedback, so there's really nowhere to hide then,
4:30
Speaker 2: and you kind of alluded to this, there's the advocacy piece, right.
4:34
Speaker 2: We are a trusted advisor in exactly the same way
4:37
Speaker 2: that a financial advisor or a legal advisor would be.
4:39
Speaker 2: We're just handling a different aspect of somebody's life. It's
4:42
Speaker 2: no less important. But we are the advocate, so we
4:46
Speaker 2: sit between the client and a candidate, and there are
4:49
Speaker 2: times where we can facilitate something that maybe on the
4:53
Speaker 2: surface somebody wouldn't say, now that makes sense, But if
4:56
Speaker 2: we know both parties, we can help make things come
4:59
Speaker 2: to together that might not happen without that, without that
5:03
Speaker 2: level of advocacy in there.
5:04
Speaker 1: I love advocacy. I really love that, And I also
5:07
Speaker 1: love that you know the there are these ultra high
5:10
Speaker 1: net worth individuals who are laser focused on their work,
5:14
Speaker 1: you know whether and they've been doing this for years
5:17
Speaker 1: and the thought of dating is super daunting. So when
5:21
Speaker 1: you are, you know, with your company with Klhart, what
5:26
Speaker 1: do you get for it? Like? What are you getting?
5:29
Speaker 1: How many dates? Like? What are we getting?
5:32
Speaker 2: So one of the beautiful things about this is it's
5:35
Speaker 2: highly customizable. We want to craft a membership that addresses
5:40
Speaker 2: that particular client's need. So for us, we don't cap introductions.
5:46
Speaker 2: There are a lot of other firms out there that
5:48
Speaker 2: are you know, pay x and you get this set
5:51
Speaker 2: number of introductions to us that creates an immediate conflict
5:56
Speaker 2: of interests. People are saying, do I take this one?
5:58
Speaker 2: Do I use this chip? Own know, we have to
6:00
Speaker 2: produce this person. There's no cap on matches with us. Frankly,
6:05
Speaker 2: every time we introduce somebody, it's either a home run
6:10
Speaker 2: or it's a learning proposition for both the firm and
6:13
Speaker 2: the team and the client. So it's another it's another
6:17
Speaker 2: way of collecting data that's incredibly valuable as we continue
6:20
Speaker 2: to refine the search.
6:21
Speaker 1: That is amazing. I love how you're talking about this,
6:24
Speaker 1: I mean like literally luring me in data advocacy, authenticity authority.
6:31
Speaker 1: I'm like, I am like literally right here with you.
6:35
Speaker 1: So we're talking about the different parts of it, and
6:38
Speaker 1: I really like the idea that you guys don't say
6:41
Speaker 1: like if you have, like you know, ten dates, oh
6:43
Speaker 1: my god, you're eight, Like what's your what's going to
6:45
Speaker 1: be your plan? I really like that. That's brilliant. By
6:49
Speaker 1: the way, So coaching. So we've talked about like the
6:53
Speaker 1: dating part, but like, what about the coaching part? This,
6:56
Speaker 1: this is the part that I'm super interested in.
6:59
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure anybody who's ever been in a relationship
7:03
Speaker 2: will tell you that relationships are not linear, and very often,
7:08
Speaker 2: particularly when we're not first timers, we've been married or
7:13
Speaker 2: been in a significant relationship before, or been in multiple
7:16
Speaker 2: significant relationships. We all have patterns, right, and we all
7:20
Speaker 2: established narratives and beliefs in our head that may or
7:23
Speaker 2: may not be accurate. And so the purpose of the
7:26
Speaker 2: coaching is multifold. First of all, it's a way that
7:31
Speaker 2: we sort of clear the slate from the beginning of
7:33
Speaker 2: a relationship and say, Okay, what are your real goals here?
7:38
Speaker 2: What's going to make you happy in this Do you
7:39
Speaker 2: want to get married again? Do you not want to
7:41
Speaker 2: get married again? What is the ultimate goal for this
7:45
Speaker 2: relationship that you're seeking, And then what has been a
7:49
Speaker 2: challenge for you in the past, and why do you
7:51
Speaker 2: suppose it's been a challenge. And let's talk about the
7:53
Speaker 2: people that you've selected for these relationships, why you were
7:58
Speaker 2: focused on certain attributes and maybe how that played into
8:01
Speaker 2: the challenges that you subsequently experienced in the relationship. And
8:06
Speaker 2: then as you go through the process with us. Again,
8:10
Speaker 2: there's nothing linear about this. So as you're establishing a
8:14
Speaker 2: relationship with a new partner, they're going to be triggers.
8:19
Speaker 2: There's something's going to come up that says, oh, that
8:22
Speaker 2: reminds me of okay, but it's not him. So let's
8:26
Speaker 2: talk about why that's happening.
8:28
Speaker 1: So, speaking of triggers, should people be fully healed from
8:32
Speaker 1: divorce or loss of a spouse before they associate with
8:37
Speaker 1: the matchmaker or what are your thoughts on that?
8:39
Speaker 2: So I think fully healed is a really interesting term
8:44
Speaker 2: because I think all of us walk through life not
8:49
Speaker 2: fully healed. Right, We're all still learning and growing as
8:52
Speaker 2: we go. So while somebody needs to have you know,
8:58
Speaker 2: sort of experienced the acute part of that somebody shouldn't
9:02
Speaker 2: go you know, it's not a direct line, but that's
9:06
Speaker 2: also part of the coaching. And there are definitely people
9:08
Speaker 2: that we as we're meeting them and we see that
9:11
Speaker 2: maybe these emotions are too raw or they're not really
9:14
Speaker 2: ready to attract or welcome this new partner, we may say,
9:18
Speaker 2: let's do six months of just coaching before we start
9:22
Speaker 2: the matching process, so we can really help people prepare
9:25
Speaker 2: to get there.
9:25
Speaker 1: So is there like a check in? Do you check
9:27
Speaker 1: in like, you know, every couple of weeks after two dates? Like,
9:31
Speaker 1: what's the kind of what's the check in process?
9:33
Speaker 2: And is there one during the matching process? You mean yes,
9:37
Speaker 2: so every client works directly with a team, and that
9:41
Speaker 2: team is multiple people, but we do depending on the
9:44
Speaker 2: scope of the search and the intricacies of the search,
9:47
Speaker 2: there can be anything from a standing bi weekly call
9:50
Speaker 2: to a standing weekly call, and many times they're over
9:53
Speaker 2: zoom because even though it's not the same as in person,
9:57
Speaker 2: it is better than a phone call.
9:59
Speaker 1: You can kind of accountability. Again, you guys are like.
10:02
Speaker 2: Really, oh, people have to be linear.
10:05
Speaker 1: In relationships and definitely be accountable.
10:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, people have to be ready to be a partner
10:11
Speaker 2: to us and to be and have agency in this process.
10:15
Speaker 2: That's one of the most interesting things about matchmaking. It
10:18
Speaker 2: is in no way a unilateral effort. We can't do
10:22
Speaker 2: it without substantial input and participation from the client.
10:27
Speaker 1: Wait, I love that you just said that you have
10:29
Speaker 1: agency in this process. I love that. I mean we're
10:32
Speaker 1: talking We're not talking about like swiping, We're talking about
10:36
Speaker 1: real partnership. I mean, this is well. First of all,
10:40
Speaker 1: you are unbelievably bright and very articulate, and I really
10:47
Speaker 1: really love the way that you're talking about it. I mean,
10:49
Speaker 1: you know, if I were working with you, I would
10:52
Speaker 1: have a definite sense of ease and comfort because you
10:58
Speaker 1: are definitely at the helm of this. And that's just
11:02
Speaker 1: like very cool. So what about living in a big city, Like,
11:06
Speaker 1: what about the people that live in small towns? I'm
11:08
Speaker 1: from Rockford, Illinois, Like you know, I mean, is it
11:12
Speaker 1: just folk? Is it in the country? Mouths too?
11:14
Speaker 2: Like, Well, it depends on the person, right, So you
11:18
Speaker 2: have it's really a question of addressable audience. And I
11:21
Speaker 2: apologize sometimes I make I take all the romance out
11:23
Speaker 2: of this and I don't intend to.
11:24
Speaker 1: No, No, not at all. I just think it's really
11:26
Speaker 1: I really appreciate that, and I think for ultra high
11:29
Speaker 1: net worth individuals they really appreciate that because that's how
11:32
Speaker 1: they're They're constantly strategizing, they're constantly making made decisions, and
11:37
Speaker 1: I think it's very smart to approach relationships in the
11:43
Speaker 1: same way. It's the same mindset, it's just a different thing.
11:47
Speaker 2: It's just a different thing. And along those lines, when
11:49
Speaker 2: you talk about where are these people located, there's addressable
11:53
Speaker 2: audience questions and metrics questions. Right if you're in a
11:57
Speaker 2: small town and you have a fair specific type of
12:01
Speaker 2: person that you're looking for, there's a small by definition,
12:05
Speaker 2: it's just math. There is a smaller number of them
12:09
Speaker 2: in a small town, there are likely going to be
12:11
Speaker 2: more of them in a large city. And single people
12:14
Speaker 2: do tend single. Successful people do tend to be in
12:18
Speaker 2: larger cities. But that's also part of what we do
12:21
Speaker 2: before we ever engage with a client is understand what
12:25
Speaker 2: level of travel or flexibility does their lifestyle allow.
12:28
Speaker 1: For so, is this.
12:29
Speaker 2: Somebody who lives in a small town and has no
12:33
Speaker 2: intention of leaving or traveling to meet their person. Well,
12:36
Speaker 2: that presents a level of challenge and that we're very
12:39
Speaker 2: candid and very upfront. If somebody is not somebody that
12:42
Speaker 2: we feel we have visibility to success, we won't ask
12:47
Speaker 2: them to make the investment financial, emotional or otherwise. Right,
12:52
Speaker 2: we want to not invested. Right.
13:04
Speaker 1: So you know, it's interesting because I was I wanted
13:07
Speaker 1: to ask you, you know, with that. So like work
13:11
Speaker 1: from home, you know, we have a lot of different
13:13
Speaker 1: people outside of just like the towns, which is obviously
13:15
Speaker 1: a challenging like you're saying, just because of the actual
13:18
Speaker 1: bodies of people, but work from home, like a lot
13:21
Speaker 1: of people are just like I've been working from home.
13:23
Speaker 1: I'm on the phone from whatever it is, you know,
13:25
Speaker 1: seven in the morning until nine o'clock at night. Like
13:28
Speaker 1: I'm just too tired. Like how do you coerce people
13:32
Speaker 1: to get to get out off the couch and you
13:37
Speaker 1: know into into the you know, into the bar or
13:42
Speaker 1: into the coffee shop. How do you get them there?
13:44
Speaker 2: Well, hopefully there's not a lot of coercion necessarily, but
13:48
Speaker 2: it's that's again.
13:49
Speaker 1: Sometimes people are like yeah, yeah, yeah, I want a date,
13:51
Speaker 1: and then they're like no, no, no, I don't.
13:53
Speaker 2: Well and that's there is a lot that goes into
13:56
Speaker 2: us deciding to partner with somebody. Yeah, we actually decline
14:01
Speaker 2: more people than we accept, which from a business standpoint
14:05
Speaker 2: sounds incredibly bizarre to a lot of people. But this
14:08
Speaker 2: is an industry where if you just sort of haphazardly
14:12
Speaker 2: throw it against the wall and see what sticks, you're
14:14
Speaker 2: not going to be around for forty years. You're not.
14:18
Speaker 1: So I want to know, do you, guys, does your
14:21
Speaker 1: team consider the person that you think that is good
14:25
Speaker 1: for me? Or do you just listen to what I say?
14:28
Speaker 1: Like if I say, Jennifer, I want tall, dark and
14:31
Speaker 1: handsome with a fat bank account, and you're like.
14:34
Speaker 2: I've never heard that before.
14:38
Speaker 1: I want to get him.
14:38
Speaker 2: Find else wants that?
14:43
Speaker 1: So like I know, So is it just? Is it
14:45
Speaker 1: you guys are just like Okay, I'm feeling we're going
14:48
Speaker 1: through this questionnaire, We're seeing what you guys are doing.
14:50
Speaker 1: We've listened to what you've had to say. Or do
14:52
Speaker 1: you guys say, like, you know what, like this other
14:55
Speaker 1: guy he might be really great. He's not. He's not
14:58
Speaker 1: dark and handsome, but he he's you know, blonde and viking.
15:02
Speaker 1: Like you know what I mean? Like, is that do
15:03
Speaker 1: you guys take those kind of leaps.
15:06
Speaker 2: Or we do? Because this is again, this is a partnership, right,
15:10
Speaker 2: and the basis of any good partnership is trust. Right.
15:14
Speaker 2: So we're not, by any stretch of the imagination, going
15:17
Speaker 2: to ignore our client's' preferences, but we are going to
15:21
Speaker 2: really try to understand before we even engage with anybody. Okay,
15:25
Speaker 2: what is it about that that makes you want that person?
15:29
Speaker 2: What is it about tall? Now, you're tall, so that
15:33
Speaker 2: makes sense, right, But when.
15:35
Speaker 1: I don't like too tall? No, no, no, no, I don't
15:37
Speaker 1: want to.
15:38
Speaker 2: A five to two or five three, And she says
15:40
Speaker 2: to me, he has to be six three, tell me why? Right,
15:44
Speaker 2: you can walk around a six in shields all day
15:46
Speaker 2: every day. If you can do it, bless you. But
15:49
Speaker 2: you know why, what is that? Well, my father was
15:52
Speaker 2: really tall. It just gives me a sense of safe. Okay,
15:55
Speaker 2: all right, now I'm starting to get the picture of why.
15:58
Speaker 2: So maybe this person doesn't have to be as tall,
16:00
Speaker 2: but they're probably if they're five to ten, they shouldn't
16:03
Speaker 2: be narrow shouldered and slight, they should probably be so yes,
16:07
Speaker 2: so we do work through the whys behind what people
16:10
Speaker 2: are asking for and again you're hiring a company to
16:15
Speaker 2: be your advocate and to be your partner, the basis
16:18
Speaker 2: of which is trust. And if we have gone through
16:20
Speaker 2: the process and we've gotten to know somebody and based
16:23
Speaker 2: on their personality, their sense of humor, their values, all
16:26
Speaker 2: the things we say, you don't know what you don't
16:29
Speaker 2: know right. A girl's got to eat, go to dinner.
16:33
Speaker 2: What's right. And we've seen so much success through people
16:38
Speaker 2: stepping outside of their comfort zone and being a little
16:41
Speaker 2: playful and adventurous and having fun with it.
16:44
Speaker 1: So just to give you, like a couple tips about me.
16:48
Speaker 1: So I am fifty seven years old and I'm from Rockford, Illinois.
16:53
Speaker 1: So I'm from a small town. I moved to New
16:56
Speaker 1: York when I was fifteen to start modeling, and I
16:59
Speaker 1: went to Trinity College in Hartford and Columbia. I started
17:03
Speaker 1: working in publishing. I went on television. I had two
17:06
Speaker 1: beautiful I got married to an older gentleman. I have
17:11
Speaker 1: two beautiful girls. I had to get divorced because I
17:15
Speaker 1: just needed I told myself that I just needed a
17:18
Speaker 1: better life for my children. You know, he just and
17:22
Speaker 1: I always say that he just wasn't the right tool
17:23
Speaker 1: for the right job. He's an amazing, super creative but
17:27
Speaker 1: I was looking for I'm from Rockford, Illinois, Like you
17:30
Speaker 1: don't get more Midwestern than that, and I was looking
17:32
Speaker 1: for those real Midwestern values, you know, just like my
17:36
Speaker 1: father and my twin brother. And it's interesting because a
17:40
Speaker 1: lot of the guys that I meet are like, you
17:43
Speaker 1: go out of line, You're like a big party girl.
17:46
Speaker 1: I'm like, I have a very busy professional life, but
17:51
Speaker 1: I have raised two girls on my own, and you
17:53
Speaker 1: can't raise girls on your own by being out at night.
17:57
Speaker 1: It does does not work. The math is not math.
18:01
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, that's really great for you. But I'm
18:04
Speaker 1: usually in you know, home by you know, eight eight thirty,
18:07
Speaker 1: you know, working doing whatever I am doing with them.
18:10
Speaker 1: And so it's fascinating to hear a lot of people
18:14
Speaker 1: when they especially when guys meet me originally, they think
18:17
Speaker 1: that I'm something that I'm not. So, you know, I
18:20
Speaker 1: also have this one very very big trait where every
18:26
Speaker 1: single guy literally and I'm not This is not like
18:29
Speaker 1: an every single guy I date. Every single man that
18:33
Speaker 1: I have ever dated has had wandering compass. Are cheaters
18:39
Speaker 1: upon cheaters upon cheaters, and if they're not cheaters. They're
18:43
Speaker 1: not making sure that I feel safe. So I want
18:48
Speaker 1: the Brady Bunch for my kids, even though you know
18:51
Speaker 1: they're older and you know later on they're going to
18:53
Speaker 1: have children, and I want to have I want to
18:55
Speaker 1: have a family for them and for their kids. Like,
18:59
Speaker 1: that's what I want. What are your thoughts, So go.
19:03
Speaker 2: Ahead, Jeneral, go So what are the other attributes that
19:07
Speaker 2: are common in the people that you've been with? And
19:10
Speaker 2: is there I hate to say it like this, but
19:14
Speaker 2: there's sometimes that sort of stereotypes or stereotypes for a reason.
19:19
Speaker 2: There's the Master of the Universe stereotype, where there's a
19:22
Speaker 2: lot of power and a lot of prestige. And you know,
19:26
Speaker 2: if if that is the type of person that solely
19:29
Speaker 2: that you've been attracted to, you know, is there a
19:32
Speaker 2: correlation between who you've sought out and some of those
19:36
Speaker 2: behaviors that are obviously not ideal in a relationship, particularly
19:41
Speaker 2: not one with you.
19:42
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you know, the first you know,
19:44
Speaker 1: the person that I you know, lean into would be like,
19:47
Speaker 1: you know, I had a wonderful father figure who was
19:50
Speaker 1: a provider and he was an you know, he was
19:52
Speaker 1: amazing well educated and always was a thought provoker, and
19:58
Speaker 1: I am attracted to those kind of men. But what
20:03
Speaker 1: happens is that when those kind of men meet me,
20:06
Speaker 1: I become the concierge. I become or they'll be like, oh,
20:09
Speaker 1: let's go to that party, and then they're like, you know,
20:12
Speaker 1: talking to people at the party, and I'm like, is
20:14
Speaker 1: this are you guys? Are you? Are you doing business
20:16
Speaker 1: right now? Are you networking? If I'm not networking, please
20:21
Speaker 1: don't network?
20:22
Speaker 2: Right?
20:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I basically attract users. Let's just call us
20:28
Speaker 1: beatis Baye Jennifer? Come on? That's that you don't need
20:31
Speaker 1: more data.
20:31
Speaker 2: They're users well, and so this is not a plug.
20:37
Speaker 2: But that's again one of the things that's helpful when
20:40
Speaker 2: you're being represented by a matchmaking company is they don't
20:44
Speaker 2: necessarily know who you are when they decide that they
20:46
Speaker 2: want to meet you. They it's not unusual for us
20:48
Speaker 2: to use a pseudonym if somebody is well known, right,
20:53
Speaker 2: I mean, mister Bally try to like mister Big kind
20:57
Speaker 2: of but not really. But we really try to get
20:59
Speaker 2: a gen you wan beat on interest versus oh my god,
21:04
Speaker 2: she's incredibly connected and she's had this really interesting life
21:08
Speaker 2: and I see where this could take me? Right, and
21:14
Speaker 2: you want somebody who their success super successful and have
21:18
Speaker 2: a lot of their own things going on. You don't
21:20
Speaker 2: need somebody to be doting on you at two o'clock
21:22
Speaker 2: on Tuesday. You have enough going on. You want to
21:25
Speaker 2: partnership somebody who respects who you are, but that's in
21:28
Speaker 2: no way a driver for why they'd want to meet you.
21:32
Speaker 1: And I also think that people seek kindness for weakness.
21:35
Speaker 1: People are like, oh, she's, you know, friendly and fun
21:38
Speaker 1: and has a lot of energy, so therefore she's weak.
21:43
Speaker 2: How are you with boundaries? Do you have good boundaries?
21:47
Speaker 2: Do you enforce your boundaries?
21:49
Speaker 1: I have personal boundaries for my own self. I guess
21:52
Speaker 1: I'm I'm just you know, I'm just not watching out
21:54
Speaker 1: for people. I'm not like, hey, what are you doing
21:56
Speaker 1: right now? I'm not like checking in on what they're doing.
22:02
Speaker 1: I'm not like it's nine o'clock, like why haven't you
22:04
Speaker 1: called me in the past five minutes? I just, you know,
22:06
Speaker 1: I'm just not like that. So doesn't mean that I
22:10
Speaker 1: don't have boundaries. It just means I am not you know,
22:16
Speaker 1: I already raised two girls.
22:18
Speaker 2: You don't need to micromanage somebody else.
22:20
Speaker 1: No, I want them to be like, hey, you'd agree, yeah,
22:24
Speaker 1: how beauty, whatever it is, like, I don't want them
22:27
Speaker 1: to be like you didn't check in on me, therefore
22:28
Speaker 1: you don't like me, Oh my god.
22:30
Speaker 2: And that's finding somebody whose values and lifestyle and approaches
22:35
Speaker 2: to a relationship aligned with yours. And those are when
22:39
Speaker 2: you meet somebody on an app or the friend of
22:42
Speaker 2: the friend who says, well, you're single, and you're single,
22:44
Speaker 2: so I'm going to put you guys together because very
22:46
Speaker 2: often that's the extent of the research they've done is
22:50
Speaker 2: they know both people are single. Again, That's that's where
22:54
Speaker 2: having this trusted advisor sitting between you and somebody you're
22:58
Speaker 2: going to meet to really get a feel for how
23:03
Speaker 2: many relationships have you been? Tell us about your relationship history,
23:06
Speaker 2: what happened? Oh there was infidelity, Who's what caused that?
23:11
Speaker 2: If it was her? Did you have any were you
23:14
Speaker 2: not present? Were you not paying attention?
23:17
Speaker 1: Right?
23:17
Speaker 2: Are you doing something? So we actually dig into the past,
23:23
Speaker 2: not not to shame anybody and not to bring up
23:27
Speaker 2: bad memories, but to understand again the patterns, the things
23:30
Speaker 2: that didn't work out, and who is this person and
23:32
Speaker 2: how do they view and value relationships. Were they the
23:36
Speaker 2: one who left and this is now their fourth marriage?
23:39
Speaker 2: Did they leave every time? And why? So?
23:42
Speaker 1: I love that because you know, we are there. We're
23:44
Speaker 1: hearing a lot of people talk about like trauma bonding,
23:47
Speaker 1: and what you're doing is that you're not trauma bonding.
23:50
Speaker 1: You're saying this person had has had this situation in
23:54
Speaker 1: her past, and this person has had this situation in
23:57
Speaker 1: her past, and these are the lessons that we learned
24:00
Speaker 1: from that, versus like I had. Like I'll, I mean,
24:03
Speaker 1: every single time someone's like ask me if I've ever
24:06
Speaker 1: been cheated on me, I'm like, I, yes, I attract
24:10
Speaker 1: cheaters and they're like, oh, yeah, me too, And I'm
24:12
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, no, this is not that moment.
24:16
Speaker 1: And I'm just like I just could totally turn off.
24:18
Speaker 1: I'm just like I cannot. If you're asking me a
24:21
Speaker 1: really you know, super sensitive question that I do not
24:25
Speaker 1: want to talk about, then please do not try to
24:27
Speaker 1: turn them on about how someone cheated on you. That's
24:30
Speaker 1: just doesn't work for me. Yeah, it really really like
24:33
Speaker 1: sets me off. Yeah. I mean I think that you know,
24:39
Speaker 1: bringing a professional matchmaker in, you know, in forty five
24:42
Speaker 1: and widowed divorce. I think that people are real. This
24:45
Speaker 1: is really really beneficial. Like, what are your thoughts on
24:48
Speaker 1: on that?
24:50
Speaker 2: Obviously I agree because I guess this is what I do.
24:52
Speaker 2: But also, if you look at the trajectory.
24:54
Speaker 1: I concur you're a lawyer.
24:57
Speaker 2: I should. But if you look at the trajectory of apps, right,
25:01
Speaker 2: they came out ten, fifteen years ago, whatever it was,
25:05
Speaker 2: they've essentially commoditized people and commoditized relationships. Right, there's no
25:10
Speaker 2: there's no incentive for these companies to get people into relationships.
25:15
Speaker 2: They lose, they lose the the revenue. Frankly, if they
25:22
Speaker 2: get you into a relationship, then you're no longer on
25:24
Speaker 2: the app.
25:27
Speaker 1: Well, it's also when people hear that ding it's you know,
25:31
Speaker 1: it's a serotonin like every single it's like serotonin. Serotonin.
25:36
Speaker 1: That's not serotonin for me, My phone dings on its own.
25:39
Speaker 1: I don't need any more dinging. What makes me feel
25:42
Speaker 1: good is that when someone's like, I hope you have
25:44
Speaker 1: the best day, or says something like I'm really proud
25:47
Speaker 1: of you. You know you're going to be great, like
25:50
Speaker 1: those kind of like words of affirmation. That's we're not
25:53
Speaker 1: talking about love language, but just a kind of consistent
25:56
Speaker 1: The consistency of you're going to be great today is
26:01
Speaker 1: just something that's really nice to hear, Like I don't
26:03
Speaker 1: need like you're hot, You're not like, I just need
26:07
Speaker 1: someone to be like you got this. Yeah, it just
26:11
Speaker 1: is like I need the calm, I don't need the serotonin,
26:14
Speaker 1: like I already have the serotonin.
26:16
Speaker 2: Well, that's it's highly gamified, right, everybody is. It's swiping
26:20
Speaker 2: for the sake of swiping without any intention at all. Right, Right,
26:24
Speaker 2: And it's funny, So you said what you just said.
26:28
Speaker 2: So many women who are successful and independent, they want
26:34
Speaker 2: somebody to come in and say you've got this, and
26:37
Speaker 2: sometimes to say I've got this. Don't worry about making
26:41
Speaker 2: the reservation, don't worry about figuring this out. I've got this.
26:46
Speaker 1: Right. Oh, like I've ever been handled my oh my god,
26:50
Speaker 1: I'm like literally, I'm like like a puppy, like I'm
26:54
Speaker 1: ready ready for duty.
26:56
Speaker 2: It's true. And dating as a successful man and dating
27:00
Speaker 2: as a successful women, they both have their challenges, but
27:02
Speaker 2: they're different. Right for women, Most women who are highly
27:06
Speaker 2: successful have gotten that way because they've got it. I
27:10
Speaker 2: got this, don't worry, I've got it. I can do that,
27:12
Speaker 2: I can do everything. I've got it all. And so
27:15
Speaker 2: when they finally are with somebody that allows them to
27:20
Speaker 2: embrace the part of them that doesn't have to have
27:24
Speaker 2: it twenty four to seven, it's like, wow, that's amazing.
27:29
Speaker 2: Somebody else to say, you know, we're all making the
27:32
Speaker 2: dinner reservations, we're all you know, planning the trip, this, that,
27:36
Speaker 2: and for someone else to go now, I want you
27:38
Speaker 2: to sit back and enjoy your fine. Oh this is different, right,
27:43
Speaker 2: like wait, wait a minute, right. And for men, they're
27:47
Speaker 2: so they're used to people wanting something from them. Okay,
27:50
Speaker 2: what does this person want? Right? They're being nice to me,
27:53
Speaker 2: they want something, right.
28:05
Speaker 1: So we're seeing some trends in dating. Can you highlight
28:08
Speaker 1: some of those that you think should just disappear forever.
28:11
Speaker 2: The first one that should disappear is the text based relationship.
28:16
Speaker 2: It's and we're very very or we try to be
28:20
Speaker 2: very strict about there's still human nature and we can
28:22
Speaker 2: wag our fingers all we want, and sometimes people just
28:24
Speaker 2: don't listen, but we really don't want people engaging in
28:29
Speaker 2: text communication for an extended period of time. Our expectation
28:34
Speaker 2: when we connect people is that they actually connect by phone,
28:39
Speaker 2: not this way, but actually by phone within a day
28:43
Speaker 2: or two, and they plan a date and if they're
28:46
Speaker 2: not in the same location, meet by Zoom will help
28:49
Speaker 2: facilitate who's traveling, where dates people are available. We want
28:53
Speaker 2: people to get in front of each other.
28:55
Speaker 1: So I like to text because I am a writer,
28:57
Speaker 1: so I'm always you know, I love to say I
29:00
Speaker 1: love to text, and I also love you know. I
29:01
Speaker 1: have two daughters who were being raised during that era,
29:05
Speaker 1: and where I could, I didn't want to be on
29:07
Speaker 1: the phone, so I did to spend a lot of
29:09
Speaker 1: time texting, right, And unfortunately I haven't dated that much.
29:15
Speaker 1: So my texting. If you saw the way I text Jennifer,
29:18
Speaker 1: you'd be like, are you in the fourth grade, Kelley?
29:21
Speaker 1: What is going on? Like this guy is not.
29:23
Speaker 2: Are you responding with K Yes?
29:27
Speaker 1: I'll be like thanks, and they'll be like thanks to what.
29:29
Speaker 1: I was like, oh sorry, And I do a lot
29:30
Speaker 1: of emojis and.
29:33
Speaker 2: Well, so here's the thing. When you don't photos.
29:36
Speaker 1: And also I do I send photos because I'm like, oh,
29:38
Speaker 1: look at that building and they're like why and I
29:40
Speaker 1: was like, because I wanted you to see, like where
29:43
Speaker 1: I am, what I'm doing during the day, just kind
29:46
Speaker 1: of like back to like that you're one of your words, accountability.
29:50
Speaker 1: I just want them to kind of see where I
29:52
Speaker 1: am and instead of just being like, you know, thinking
29:54
Speaker 1: of you, I could be anywhere. Do you know what
29:55
Speaker 1: I mean? Like here I am. I mean not a
29:58
Speaker 1: selfie obviously unless I'm looking great, but I.
30:03
Speaker 3: Mean if you clients, But when you don't know somebody
30:09
Speaker 3: really well, the risks of texting are that you people
30:13
Speaker 3: don't understand everybody's sense of humor out of the gate, right,
30:16
Speaker 3: So you could say something to somebody.
30:18
Speaker 2: And the inflection in your voice is going to tell
30:20
Speaker 2: them what you mean, but just on the fly text
30:24
Speaker 2: is they might feel like what does that mean?
30:27
Speaker 1: Yeah?
30:27
Speaker 2: Right? And that can that can actually sideline people as
30:32
Speaker 2: they're developing the relationship. And you can't get to know
30:36
Speaker 2: somebody in the same way through the written word or
30:39
Speaker 2: even through a phone call. If you meet somebody, you're
30:41
Speaker 2: taking them in with all of your senses. I mean,
30:44
Speaker 2: I know I have and most women will tell you
30:46
Speaker 2: they have met ment they smell great. Have you met
30:50
Speaker 2: the guy who smells great?
30:53
Speaker 1: I have met a hero who smells great, And.
30:55
Speaker 2: You're like, what is that and you're just there's something
30:58
Speaker 2: about them that you're drawn to because they're hitting all
31:03
Speaker 2: of your senses right, or the handsome successful blah blah
31:07
Speaker 2: blah doesn't smell good. That's a problem. Hard to get
31:12
Speaker 2: around like that natural sort of doesn't like Okay, So
31:15
Speaker 2: it's always good to just get in front of people.
31:17
Speaker 2: So we really are encouraging people meet and you soap,
31:23
Speaker 2: meet and you soap. Maybe a little dealer in here
31:25
Speaker 2: and there. It's safe. They may be without a liminum
31:29
Speaker 2: these days.
31:29
Speaker 1: What what dating trend would you keep around?
31:36
Speaker 2: Chivalry?
31:37
Speaker 3: Oh?
31:37
Speaker 1: I love.
31:39
Speaker 2: We really do still believe in and that so irrespective
31:43
Speaker 2: of whether the woman is our client or the man
31:45
Speaker 2: is our client, we want the gentleman to plan the date.
31:50
Speaker 2: We expect him to host the date.
31:52
Speaker 1: Do you also tell your female clients, like, just because
31:56
Speaker 1: you're a CEO of X, Y and Z doesn't mean
31:59
Speaker 1: you have to be a CEO of the date.
32:01
Speaker 2: A briefcase at the door. Yeah, and it's hard to
32:06
Speaker 2: do it is I mean, you're you're a successful woman.
32:10
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's easy to drift into that sort of
32:13
Speaker 2: high powered business. I know I've done it in the past.
32:15
Speaker 2: Everybody does it.
32:16
Speaker 1: I like to just let people unfold, which is actually
32:19
Speaker 1: a bad thing. My producers always like ask these questions.
32:22
Speaker 1: I'm like, I can't ask the question because if I say, like, oh,
32:26
Speaker 1: how is your how was your last relationship, then it's
32:28
Speaker 1: like I have to listen to her. I'm like, no, no,
32:31
Speaker 1: now I am not listening to about an ex.
32:33
Speaker 2: No.
32:34
Speaker 1: But I'm also not gonna have some guys say to me, like,
32:38
Speaker 1: you know, what's your value add I'm like, so, now
32:40
Speaker 1: I'm your value add Like what.
32:43
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, those are not appropriate date conversations. I mean,
32:48
Speaker 2: you should not talk about your former relationships in the
32:53
Speaker 2: first couple of days, talk about.
32:54
Speaker 1: Each other thousand percent. I'm always like, tell me about you,
32:57
Speaker 1: tell me about things you like.
32:59
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's the amazing thing about what we do is
33:03
Speaker 2: you could probably say something to me and there's genuinely
33:06
Speaker 2: no way that you could shock me. We have heard everything,
33:10
Speaker 2: We've talked to all sorts of people. And if you're
33:14
Speaker 2: going to be successful in this as a company and
33:17
Speaker 2: as a professional, you just have to be curious, and
33:20
Speaker 2: you have to lead every conversation without any sense of judgment,
33:23
Speaker 2: and you just have to enjoy learning about people.
33:25
Speaker 1: So I'm genuinely I mean, you can tell after spending
33:29
Speaker 1: a couple of minutes with me that I am a
33:31
Speaker 1: very light person. What are the things that you think
33:34
Speaker 1: that women need to lighten up about?
33:37
Speaker 2: The checklist? Wow, there's a big checklist with a lot
33:43
Speaker 2: of people. And men have it too, don't get me wrong,
33:47
Speaker 2: but these really long checklists of every single attribute. They
33:52
Speaker 2: have decided where this person should fall on the graph
33:56
Speaker 2: of every single attribute. And what you lose in doing
34:00
Speaker 2: that is playfulness, right, And life is supposed to be enjoyed.
34:07
Speaker 2: It's plenty hard, plenty of the time. So try to
34:11
Speaker 2: find pleasure and enjoyment and fund where you can. And
34:16
Speaker 2: we always say you don't know what you don't know,
34:18
Speaker 2: And I guarantee every woman and every man has met
34:23
Speaker 2: somebody at a cocktail party, in the line at Starbucks
34:26
Speaker 2: wherever it is that you're like, huh, that's kind of
34:31
Speaker 2: interesting and they're completely out of the box for you.
34:33
Speaker 1: You don't know why, right? So what about men? Where
34:36
Speaker 1: do they need to lighten up?
34:37
Speaker 2: On age? I think there's a perception that as women
34:44
Speaker 2: get older, they are less fun, they are less beautiful,
34:49
Speaker 2: whatever the case may be. But what we see is
34:55
Speaker 2: over and over again, people are youthful and beautiful and
34:58
Speaker 2: engaging in all these things well beyond thirty, right, I
35:04
Speaker 2: mean they are, and at the end of the day
35:07
Speaker 2: we see this. I mean, I'm not telling anybody anything new.
35:10
Speaker 2: That sort of age disparity that men sometimes seek, particularly
35:15
Speaker 2: as they're just starting to date again, that's typically more
35:18
Speaker 2: of a face and the reason is that that deeper connectivity.
35:23
Speaker 2: I mean, just like cultural alignment, movies, music, things like
35:27
Speaker 2: that that you connect on and can joke around about,
35:31
Speaker 2: there's usually a gap there if there's too much of
35:34
Speaker 2: an age gap, and they they may think, now, this
35:38
Speaker 2: sounds like fun to date somebody who's twenty years younger
35:42
Speaker 2: or thirty years younger or whatever it is. And then
35:44
Speaker 2: ultimately they find that they can really and deeply connect
35:48
Speaker 2: with somebody who's more of a contemporary.
35:50
Speaker 1: So, you know, it's interesting because if you had met
35:53
Speaker 1: me ten years ago, I was still in the thick
35:55
Speaker 1: of things still, you know, making sure my girls had
35:58
Speaker 1: the best education, doing you know, being the financial provider
36:02
Speaker 1: and also the nurture. So I was really really in
36:05
Speaker 1: the thick of it, and so I still look the same.
36:08
Speaker 1: I looked exactly the same, but my energy was completely different.
36:13
Speaker 1: I mean, I had a lightness to me, but not
36:16
Speaker 1: like I do now.
36:17
Speaker 2: Now.
36:17
Speaker 1: I'm just like I feel like i'm sixteen again. I'm
36:20
Speaker 1: so proud of my kids. I love my life, I
36:23
Speaker 1: love where I am. I'm just a different human. I
36:27
Speaker 1: still look the same, And I've had a lot of
36:29
Speaker 1: men say, oh my gosh, like, you're so young at heart.
36:34
Speaker 1: I'm like young at heart, Like, no, I'm just not
36:38
Speaker 1: a grump. And by the way, why do I have
36:40
Speaker 1: to be a grump, Like what are you talking about?
36:44
Speaker 2: Well? I also think there's a confidence. There's a confidence
36:47
Speaker 2: that comes I'm fifty five, so there's a confidence that
36:51
Speaker 2: comes being so you so thank you. I'll take that
36:55
Speaker 2: from you. You're a professional. But there is there's a
37:00
Speaker 2: confidence that comes with maturing, taking care of yourself. Yeah,
37:06
Speaker 2: and knowing that I'm still a beautiful woman. I'm smart,
37:09
Speaker 2: I'm independent, I can do it all. The partner is
37:13
Speaker 2: a nice to have. I don't need somebody. It's a
37:18
Speaker 2: nice to have. It would be nice to share these things,
37:21
Speaker 2: but I don't need to look to somebody else to
37:23
Speaker 2: complete my life and to complete me.
37:26
Speaker 1: I love that A partner is nice to have. That
37:30
Speaker 1: is perfectly well said Jennifer Wells. Thank you so much
37:33
Speaker 1: for being here today and idpart two. You're amazing.
37:36
Speaker 2: It was so much fun. It was.
37:39
Speaker 1: It's greater to meet you, wildly intelligent. I need my
37:44
Speaker 1: dating fun. I was like, oh, that's fun.
37:46
Speaker 2: It's supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be fun,
37:49
Speaker 2: and I think that gets lost in the shuffle sometimes.
37:51
Speaker 1: Appreciate you. Thank you so much for being.
37:53
Speaker 2: As thank you for inviting me. It was nice to
37:55
Speaker 2: be you.
37:56
Speaker 1: That was such a fascinating conversation on this pod. We
37:59
Speaker 1: know the dating can feel daunte, but we want you
38:01
Speaker 1: to know that you have some options. If you're navigating
38:04
Speaker 1: dating for the first time. In your chapter two, I
38:05
Speaker 1: need some advice, call us or email us. All the
38:08
Speaker 1: info is in the show notes. Follow us on socials.
38:11
Speaker 1: Make sure to rate and review the podcast I Do
38:15
Speaker 1: Part two and iHeart Radio podcasts. Were falling in love
38:19
Speaker 1: is the main objective