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Spoiled Saturday: Obsession · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: And this is Anne.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Anne Samantha.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: And welcome to Stuff I Never Told You, a production
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. And welcome to another edition of Spoiled Saturdays.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Happy birthday to me. I'm so excited because this was
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: a birthday present episode for me. We were talking about...
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: the movie Obsession, which I adore and have been talking
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: about on the show for a little bit. And was
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: a pretty big hit. It was very popular. Did very well.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: And the actress who plays Nikki in the movie, Indy Navarati,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: she's going to play Rogue in X-Men. That's how popular
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: we're talking.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: People are excited.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, people are excited. So I was very happy to hear.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: We got kind of cut off, Samantha. But I was
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: worried you would be angry with me. But it sounds
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: like you're not so angry with me for suggesting this. No, no.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: I was a little worried, but with the spoiler, I
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: will say, like, it wasn't as intense. And also, it
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: looked very... much like a stuffed animal. So it made
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: it a little better.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: It being a cat. Yeah.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: So I was trying not to get ahead on this
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: one for you, but like, yeah, so because I was
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: a worry, but yeah, that was some like, uh, parts,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: but I was able to disassociate enough because I was like, what?
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: There's a lot to this. I was like, what just happened?
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I think that's a fair assessment.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I will say the worst part was like the cringe moments, like,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: oh no, like during the party.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: I meant to warn you about that because I know
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: how you feel about secondhand embarrassment.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: I did fast forward a little bit through some parts
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: of that because I was like, I can't.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, that part's so good. I mean, not all of it.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Like, I've got the gist. Don't you worry. I got
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: the gist.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's... Before we got kind of cut off,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: because we were about to record with Eves and we
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: were talking about it and Eves came on, so we
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: stopped talking.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: I was going to bring up the secondhand embarrassment, but
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: at that point it was too late. So what good
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: have I done?
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Because I think I'd already watched it by that point.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: I was ready. I was like.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: But I did think about that with you. It's got
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: a lot of those elements in it. It does.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Because it's supposed to.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: But it was like, oh no, cringe.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: So.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I have talked about this movie before on a happy
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: hour and I'm going to revisit what I talked about
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: in that happy hour in this episode because it's kind
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: of changed since that came out, which actually I'm, I'm
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: just going to say as we're recording this, because we're
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: trying to get ahead, we're recording this kind of early.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: So it's, uh, August 21st, 2026 in case some big
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: new conversation starter happens with this, which is totally possible
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: that it will. Um, I saw this in theaters twice.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that kind of touches on
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: that cringe, embarrassment element is that people were so unsure about, like,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I'm so uncomfortable with what's happening here. Like, should I
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: be laughing? Is this scary? I don't know. Like, in
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: the audience.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: The atmosphere was palpable. And I will be discussing how
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I personally think that they vindicated my viewpoint on this movie.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: But it's a visceral reaction that I experienced when I
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: saw it in theaters. People were really reacting to it.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: That being said, I've got to put it in here.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Fan fiction. I don't read obsession fan fiction, but obsession
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: has made its way into fan fiction I do read
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: because it was so popular. And so now like every
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: couple you can imagine, there's a obsession fan fiction with
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: that couple. I do have one I like.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: That seems concerning.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, I have one I like, and it's really good
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: because they're very clear this is a horrible thing. This
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: is not meant to be romanticized. So it's horrific. It's like... It's...
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Just something I have to prepare myself for, which is
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: amazing how many fan fictions I have now that I
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: have to prepare myself before I read it. But it
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: is great. It's a great one. But I'm just surprised
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: a little bit at how much I've seen Obsession kind
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: of filter into other fandoms. Another thing, this is just
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: a random aside. I've noticed this in a couple of movies,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: but Obsession has at the end, it can't be used
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: to train A.I. I don't know if that legally means anything.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, does that really hold up?
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like it should because it's in
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: kind of all the copyright section. But I have no idea.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: I just noticed it when I was watching on my recent.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Can we say that? To be fair, our company says
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: guaranteed humans. So I hope they have something that says
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: that they can't use our content for AI. Hey, stop
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: using us for AI. Yeah. Is that enough?
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: We're guaranteed human. Definitely. No questions about it. Exactly. So
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: I'm also really excited about this because I got my
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: hair cut today and the person who cuts my hair,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: she loves horror movies. And we just talked about this
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: movie like the whole time. It was fantastic.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: And so y'all are on the same page? Yes. You
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: haven't met anybody that disagrees yet?
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: No. I've met some people who, like, are a little, like,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: not complete agreement, but nobody, I would say, essentially disagrees. Yes. No,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: she was definitely on my page. And she was even
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: pointing me to, you should listen to this. You should
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: go watch this video. This will break it down for you.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, my gosh. Thank you.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Are you one of those, too? Because my partner, if
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: they see a movie they really like, or at least, like,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: have questions about, the first thing they have is YouTubes
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: that have breakdowns. Do you do this too?
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I don't normally do it, but for this movie, I did.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: I watched a lot of video essays. I even watched
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: a really, really fun one that was about the legal
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: arguments every character has about the crimes committed. I loved it.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be talking about it a little bit
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: more later. Normally, I don't do it, but just so
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: many people... After this movie came out, there was a
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: lot of conversation about it, and there were a lot
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: of really great videos that were made that I thought,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I want to check that out. I want to see
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: what that's about. Okay.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, just to reiterate, hopefully, obviously, spoilers, the
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: whole thing, spoiled. Content warning, we're going to be talking
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: about violence, sexual assault, death, and suicide. And some of
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: this is kind of tricky to talk about because of
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: the nature of the story. Some people refer to Nikki
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: and not Nikki to differentiate. I'm going to stick with Nikki,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: but know that after Bear makes the wish, it's mostly
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: not Nikki who is controlling Nikki's body and actions. And
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: the real Nikki is forced to experience it and occasionally
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: breaks free of it. Also, you're going to get my
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Bear is the Villain manifesto. Don't you worry. Maybe not
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: a perfect, simple villain, but he is the villain. People
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: in the theater were rooting for this man's death. There
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: is also discussion about suicide that is a little bit messy.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: In some of the videos I was watching, I was like, oof,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: that is tricky to talk about. But all right, here
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: we go with the plot. Obsession is a 2025 horror
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: movie directed, edited, and written by Curry Barker. And I
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: realized doing this, he did Milk and Cereal, which is
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: a horror movie. It's available on YouTube for free. I
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: believe it's still available. It's like an hour long. It's
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: a very unique take on found footage. And I think
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: this is where I thought I'd already seen Obsession years ago.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: And I'm pretty sure that I got something mixed up,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: but I definitely saw milk and cereal. And when I
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: was reading that he was the person behind it, I thought, okay,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: something is sliding into place for me. The movie stars
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Michael Johnston as Bear and Indy Navarrete as Nikki. It
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: features Megan Lawless, Cooper Tomlinson, and Andy Richter. Yeah, it
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: was a huge critical and commercial success. It beat out
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of blockbusters for weeks. It is one of
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: the highest grossing horror movies of all time. Barker was
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: a YouTube sketch artist. Along with Tomlinson, he was also
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: in Milk and Cereal, Barker was approached by a producer
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: to make a movie. And Barker pitched an idea based
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: on a Simpsons Treehouse of Horror episode, and that's what
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: became Obsession. The plot follows Baron Bear Bailey, a young
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: man with romantic feelings for his friend Nikki Freeman, who
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: he works with at a music store with their friends
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Ian and Sarah. He seems like he's really shy, and
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: in the beginning, he is practicing confessing his feelings for her.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: It doesn't go well, at least according to his friend, Ian.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Bear returns to his apartment to find his cat, Sandy,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: has died after getting into some pills Bear has left out.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: We are going to talk about that more. Don't you worry.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Nikki calls and convinces Bear to come out to trivia
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: after informing him she's quitting at the music shop. So
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: she's put in her two weeks. So now Bear thinks
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: he has a time crunch to tell her his feelings.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: So he agrees and heads out to a store to
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: replace a crystal necklace that Nikki lost. So it's kind
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: of a new agey store. Instead, he ultimately opts for
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: a novelty item called the One Wish Willow, a stick
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: that when broken is guaranteed to grant you one wish.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: And you only get one wish. No more. The cashier
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: is very ominous about the whole thing and tells him
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: not to come in complaining. At trivia, Bear attempts multiple
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: times to start a conversation with Nikki, but is interrupted.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: He offers to drive her home when she says she
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: just wants to sleep. On the way, on the drive,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Nikki implies that maybe Sarah has feelings for Bear, but
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Bear ignores this and fumbles multiple times to make his
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: feelings for Nikki known. After they arrive at her home,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: she asks him bluntly if he has feelings for her,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: and he lies and says no. Once she's inside, he
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: breaks the one-wish willow and says, I wish Nikki Freeman
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: loved me more than anything in the f * * *
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: ing world. Suddenly, Nikki reappears, and it's a great creepy shot,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: I love it, and seems confused about the death of
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: the cat, saying it's her cat. but then convinces Bear
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: to take her back to his place after she says
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: her father is dying of cancer. He agrees, and eventually
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: they start kissing until she abruptly snaps out of it
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: and falls off the bed looking confused and horrified. He
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: reacts extremely defensively, and she assures him it was just
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: a panic attack. The next day, Bear finds out that
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: Nikki has made him a shrine of Sandy's remains. thinking
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: that he would like it. Yeah. Bear talks to their
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: friend Ian, who suspects that drugs are involved. And this
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: is all happening, and she's like creepily staring at Bear,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: by the way. There's a montage of them seemingly happily dating,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: very domestic, but their friends are growing more and more concerned.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Ian reveals that Sarah told him that Nikki sees Bear
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: as a little brother, that that's what Nikki told Sarah,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: who told Ian, and that her father is healthy, no
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: cancer to be had. When Bear confronts Nikki about this
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: on their date, she is extremely volatile, asking, what does
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: it matter if it's true or not? To which Bear says,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter to me. And then you cut to
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Bear raping her. That night, Nikki behaves erratically, watching Bear sleep, screaming,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: hiding behind flowers that she claimed were for Sandy, shrieking
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: at him to stay when he tried to move away
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: on the bed. The next day, Bear asks her to
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: be normal and not do any more of that, and
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: she agrees, sending him on his way with a packed lunch. However,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: he finds that she has duct-taped the door shut. He
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: eventually pulls it free and goes to work and is
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: talking to Sarah about colleges after she received another rejection letter.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: And she has one more chance, which is her dream
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: college of Luther. While eating his sandwich, he finds a
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: picture of Nikki with the caption, not me, taken while
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: he was sleeping. And discovers that the meat inside is
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: that of dear old Sandy the cat. Yep. Bear calls
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: the One Wish Willow helpline. I love this. And talks
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: to a really bored customer service person who tells him
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: he can't change the wish. Bear asks if the love
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: is real. And the guy is essentially like, sure, man.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: So Bear asks to cancel it. but he learns that
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: he cannot. Then the customer service guy plays what he
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: claims are the sounds of Nikki screaming from wherever she is.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: He also informs Bear that the wish will end when
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: he dies. When Bear returns to his apartment, he finds
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: that Nikki has stood in the same place all day,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: waiting for him, swirling herself, vomiting on herself. She acts
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: very shy about the whole thing and goes to shower.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Bear reveals that Ian invited him to a boys' night
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: that Nikki specifically wasn't invited to. In response to this information,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Nikki freaks out until he agrees for Nikki to tag
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: along to the party. This brings us to the party.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: There, the partygoers are playing a game of Jenga where
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: every block you pull has a message on it, like
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: a dare. Nikki pulls one and reads a really creepy
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: poem that she wrote that we'll talk about more later.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: And Bear pulls one that reads, kiss the person to
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: your left, which happens to be Sarah. Before he can, Nikki,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: with the most intense frown I've ever seen, pulls Sarah's
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: chair out and kisses him instead. It's extremely awkward. It's
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: so awkward. Even more so when Nikki suddenly screams... it's
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: not me, and starts bashing her face in with a bottle.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Broken bottle. Yeah, she breaks it and then starts. Yeah. Yep.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: After way too much pressure, Bear takes her to the hospital,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: but they are dismissed due to her refusal of treatment.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Back at the apartment, Bear implores Nikki to just be normal,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: to just be Nikki, and she sobs that she can't be.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: She threatens to kill herself to keep him in the apartment.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Later that night, Bear gets a message from Sarah requesting
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: that they meet. He slips away from Nikki in bed,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: only for her to stop him with a plea to
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: kill her. She says, this is really me and not
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: the being that's been controlling her that she calls she.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Nikki begs Bear to kill her before she wakes up.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: But he gets angry and says, what would be so
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: bad with being with me? And leaves her there crying.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: He meets Sarah in her car in the park, where
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: she tells him that Ian and Nikki have been casually
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: hooking up for a long time. They are about to
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: open her last college letter together when Bear asks her
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: if she likes him. And Sarah says, I was to
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: your left. referencing the kiss she should have gotten earlier.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: But before anything can happen, Nikki arrives and smashes Sarah's
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: skull in repeatedly on a brick. She promises to get
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: rid of the evidence, but Bear helps her. Later, Bear
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: opens Sarah's college letter to see that she did get accepted.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Bear returns to where he purchased the one-wish willow to
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: find another one in hopes of having someone counteract his wish.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: He is able to purchase two and learns that the
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: cashier was perfectly satisfied with his wish. Bear goes to
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Ian and tries to explain the whole thing, but Ian
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: doesn't believe him. And he snaps the one-wish willow, and
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: he asks for a billion dollars, and then money starts
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: to rain down upon them. I love that scene.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: That's where I thought he was going to get killed
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: by the money. I thought that too. I assumed it
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: was going to be like a monkey paw thing, which
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: is what I think this is the inspiration of. But
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, it just kept hitting him. Okay, maybe not.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be death by money.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: But I love that scene because it's just like such
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: an immediate, clear, no, this thing works. Yes, yes. So
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Bear goes... back to his apartment to find a shrine
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: to Bear and Nikki's relationship and a very messed up,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: very bloodied Nikki. She threatens to kill herself again and
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: does kill Ian when he barges in. Bear retreats to
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: the bathroom with the gun. with the intent to kill
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: himself to end the wish, but instead opts to overdose
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: on the pills that killed his cat. Just as he's
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: waiting for death, he attempts to induce vomiting, just as
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: we hear the snap and song of a one-wish willow,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: and suddenly he's all smiley because she has wished for
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: him to love her as much as she loves him.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: And that is a recurring theme, that she is frequently angry,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: insecure that he doesn't love her or he doesn't love
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: her as much as she loves him. So, he leaves
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: the bathroom. They smile awkwardly at each other until Bear
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: collapses and dies from the overdose. Nikki reaches for the
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: gun to kill herself, but snaps out of the wish
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: now that Bear is dead before she can. She tosses
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: the gun, shoves away Bear's body, and screams and wails.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Why did you do this? How could you do this?
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: All while the TV in the background plays video of
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Bear sleeping. The end. Yeah. They did shoot an alternate
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: ending where she does die. Where Nikki does kill herself. Yeah.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Now I will say, I was waiting for him to die.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: I'm like, really? Really? Just die?
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. Yes. And we're going to talk about it
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: a bit more, but it was a purposeful choice for
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: him to... He tries to induce the vomiting before she
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: makes the wish. So, there's a lot to be said here.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: I have tried to condense it, so it's not just
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: me Screaming at the top of my lungs points that
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: so many people have made. But we're going to do
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: this a little bit differently. I'm going to start with
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: two main points because I think they inform the rest
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: of everything else. So the question of when does Bear
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: become the villain? So he is the villain. And I'm
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: happy that pretty much everyone seems to agree. Aside from
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: usual Manosphere bros. I'll get into that more in a second.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Because if you'll remember, I was very concerned about it
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: when I did that happy hour. This is one of
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: those things that I just thought, unless it's done well,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know how people are going to take this.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: And one of the things I love about this movie
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: is that the evolution of how Bear starts as a
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: sympathetic character And then over time, you start to realize, oh,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: not so much. And that could happen at different points,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: depending on your viewing experience, very quickly or over the
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: span of the first half. I'd say it demonstrates that
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: he's not someone deserving of sympathy. And I wanted to
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: put this in here. So Universal Studios. announced the character
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Nikki would be featured as part of their Halloween Horror
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Nights as one of the characters who is wandering around
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: scaring you. But when they announced this, they included a
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: statement that said, she's not the monster. Because normally all
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: these characters are monsters. And they went out of their
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: way to release a statement and say, she is not
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: the monster. She was the victim. She was the product
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: of a monstrous situation. I just thought that was interesting
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: that they felt like we got to be clear here.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: So is this going to be like her being possessed
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: or being taken over rather?
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I think it's going to be her, either like the
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: really bloody version of her at the end or the
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: one that I think if she was like carrying around
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: the vase of flowers in front of her face. I'm
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: anticipating seeing that at Dragon Con. I think someone will
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: do that.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Well, that whole, like, go back and forth, which I
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: have seen TikToks of women doing that to their men
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: after watching this movie, freaking their boyfriends out. That would
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: be a hole.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: I love that scene where he's like, you're freaking me out.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: And she does that, like, rush at him. I love
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: that so much.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. Like, they were like, because they
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: also obviously edited it to make it scarier. She has it.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: People I've seen do it. And then the backwards walk.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Yes. I love that whole part.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I think that would be really good. That would be
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: really good. I think there's going to be a pretty
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: decent showing of Obsession at DragonCon this year. Yes. So
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: another thing I wanted to note, some people like myself
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: thought the name Bear was to play on the whole
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: man versus bear trend that was popular when this was
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: being filmed. Basically, would a woman rather face a man
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: or a bear? The creator has said that no, that
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: is not the case, but he appreciates that so many
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: of us thought it. He was kind of like, oh,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: if only. He said he just wanted a name that
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: would stand out.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Baron, Bear, please stand up.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: But going back to the original question, when did he
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: become the villain? There are three main arguments, but they
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: all boil down to he knew what he was doing
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: and he knew something was wrong and didn't care. So
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: the first argument is right after the wish. So in
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: that first instance, he knows something is off with her.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: He's attributing it to drugs. At first, he's like, maybe
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: she's just really sad about her dad having cancer. But
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: what I think is really telling about this whole thing
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: is that he, when they kiss, he immediately, she has
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: like her snap out of it, oh my God, what's
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: happening moment. And he immediately tries to defend himself. He
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: doesn't ask if she's okay. He doesn't check on her.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: He just is like, you kissed me. It was you.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: You did this. Like all of this stuff that he's
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: obviously aware something is wrong. And he is so much
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: more concerned that he is not going to get consequences
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: for it. And we're going to talk more about consequences
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: versus loss of autonomy. This happens again. When she shows
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: up at his apartment, it's a beautiful shot where she's
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: in like a red dress, but her face is all
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: in shadow and her eyes are gleaming.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, and she says, well, I didn't want anyone to
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: think that you were taking advantage of me. And he's like,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: I wasn't taking advantage of you. He's just immediately. And
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: she's like, oh, that's what I'm saying. But he is
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: so defensive right away. The second one, which I think
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: at this point, is the why does it matter rape scene.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: So when they're on their date and Bear learns from
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Ian that her father is fine, doesn't have cancer, he
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: asks her about it. And that's when she has her
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: wonderful scene I love. No, no, no, no, no. Don't
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: ruin this date. She sits down and he asks her, like,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: do you love me? And then he uses the exact
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: same wording from his wish more than anyone in the world.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: And that's when she says, does it matter? And he says, nope.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: And then it cuts to the rape scene. And that
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: is why it's a rape scene. He knows at that point.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: You can't convince me otherwise that he did not know.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: And the wording of his wish and intent to control her,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: that's really important. When he makes the wish, he sounds
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: like dejected and angry. And I think that you see
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: that throughout. And it's reflected in he doesn't care. He
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: just wants her. More than, like, he wants her to
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: only want him and nothing else. That's her whole world. So,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: as I was saying, I did watch these legal videos
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: about this movie. It is illegal to have sex with
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: someone who has an inability to consent. And he clearly knows,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: I think even in the first instance where they didn't
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: have sex, but he knows something is wrong even if
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: he doesn't know that it's the wish yet. And the
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: sad thing about all of the legal videos I watched
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: is Nikki would be punished the most despite being the
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: one who voluntarily chose the least. The company would be fine.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Bear is dead, so I guess you can make of
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: that what you will. But they go over multiple things
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: that Bear says in these legal videos that prove that
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: he knew something is wrong that they could use in
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: a legal case. He says she needs serious help. Something
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: is very wrong with her. She is exhibiting violence, threats
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: that are out of character. He went online online. to
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: try to figure it out, he called the company hotline
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: where they confirmed that she's been altered and she is suffering.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: So all of this proves he suspected he caused it
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: or something was wrong and he did not care. So
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: as I was saying earlier, there is an interesting dichotomy
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: in a lot of horror where male horror is a
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: fear of consequences. And female horror is loss of autonomy.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: And that can switch up, like Alien is a great
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: example of when it switches up. And in this case,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: he is, Bear is more afraid of the consequences and
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: she has lost her autonomy. And he ruined her life.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: He took her future. I think you could argue he
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: took Sarah's future. And these were his choices that he made.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: So that's a larger conversation to have. But the third
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: and final point, I think irrefutable if you make it
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: this far, that he's the villain, is when she begs
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: him to kill her. And what does he do? He says,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: would it be so bad to be with me? and
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: leaves her alone. And he knows she's suffering. He knows
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: at the very least she's become unstable. And I just
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: can't imagine walking away from someone I cared about who's
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: begging me to kill them. Like, walking away from that situation,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: making it about you. He doesn't care about her at all.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: I have a whole section about that later. He doesn't
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: care about her. He thinks he is the victim. He
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: could have gotten her help multiple times. If this is
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: his friend, multiple times, and he never tried. He never
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: ever tried. I have seen that this has become a
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: new boyfriend test of If your boyfriend is like, oh,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: I see where he's coming from. Women being like, oh, no. Okay.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: And a lot of the things they say is, he
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: didn't take advantage of her on the first night. And
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I just think, wow, the bar is so low.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Do we know that for sure, though? Well, that's just
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: what they say. Just because they didn't show it doesn't
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: mean it didn't happen.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you could argue that he did.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: But just the fact that they're like, well, he didn't
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: have sex with her or rape her that night. And like,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: this is the saddest point you could make for your argument.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: That's odd. Yeah, yeah. So those are my three main,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: and not just me, I think those are the three
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: main points that people use to be like, this is,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: he's the villain. Another thing people like to debate is
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: whether or not Bear could have actually gotten with Nikki
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: if he'd just spoken to her about his feelings honestly.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: The creators have been clear that no. When Sarah told
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Ian Bear was friendzoned, that was the truth. I think
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: the clearest indicator of that fact, of that Nikki didn't
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: view Bear romantically, is when she reads her creepy Hansel
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: and Gretel poem at the party. And she's talking about
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: how only the branch of a willow tree could conjure
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: a love between a brother and sister. Yeah, she's talking
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: about an incestuous relationship forced by a branch of a
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: willow tree. Yeah. And that makes it so much worse
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: to me because she trusted him as a friend. And
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: when she's begging him to kill her, she still had
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: faith in him. She thought he might not realize what
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: was going on, and she was willing to die to
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: protect her friends. And in the face, she didn't want
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: to continue living that way without autonomy. But in that moment,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: he made it clear to her that he was punishing
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: her for perceived rejection. And all of this is made
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: worse in that he could kill himself to save her,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: and he knows it. So she's saying, I'll do it,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: and he doesn't. just leaves her to suffer. Another thing
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: is he could have gotten with Sarah. Sarah clearly was
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: interested in him.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Which Nikki kind of brings up.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Nikki's kind of like, how would you feel about this?
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: I told her, what do you think? And he very
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: much knows what that means. Yes.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Yes. And I think he, when it becomes clear that
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Sarah is interested in him, suddenly he sees that as
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: an option. And that's going back to the fear of rejection.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: He's too insecure. And so it took Sarah to kind
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: of be open and Nikki to kind of tell him
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: for him to think, oh, maybe it could be Sarah.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: He's also very much in the vein of a guy
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: who thinks a woman will fix his problems, which we'll
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: discuss more. I also, like, every time I rewatch it,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: I always am so sad in the beginning. Nikki just
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: wanted to go home and sleep. She just wanted a
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: ride home. And this is what happened. Another thing that's
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: interesting is that when they were doing the casting, Andy Navaretti,
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: her audition, one of the reasons they chose her is
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: because she brought out a very, like, kind of sassiness
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: that they wanted to make sure that people knew it
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: was a friend zone situation. Because originally, at least according
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: to the creator, she'd been written very girl next door,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: but she brought in this kind of, like, sassiness.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: It was obvious she saw him as the friend. Like,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: there was no, like, there was that tough girl, like, hey,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: you know, we're good, right? Because, like, nah, this is
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: a nah.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Like she, like it was very upfront. Like she treated
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: him like a younger brother, essentially.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. Something else I thought was interesting is costuming.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: So a lot of the interviews I watched about this,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: because you don't actually get to see Nikki before she's
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: possessed for a long time, It's a short amount of
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: time that you get to see her before she's possessed.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: They tried to make as much use of that time
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: to showcase who she was. And one was in the costuming.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: So in the first costume she wears, it's like an
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: oversized coat. It's very comfortable. After the wish, she is
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: dressed much more seductively. She's in like short shorts, tight clothes,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: tight dress. So doing it for Bear and not for her.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: So I thought that was interesting. This brings us to
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: the inversion of tropes, of which there are many. The first,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Wish Gone Wrong. So one of the things the director
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: slash creator has been very clear on, and I think
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: is extremely important, is that this is not a monkey
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: paw situation, meaning it's not a cursed item that is
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: going to twist your words and give you the worst
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: possible outcome. We are shown in the movie some people
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: used the one-wish willow and were happy with the outcome
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: of their wish. He made a bad wish. He took
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: away someone's choice, her autonomy. and in doing so, allowed
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: for something else, her, to inhabit Nikki's body. He reduced
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: her to an object for his wish fulfillment, erasing what
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: made her, her, so his wish was never going to work.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Because even though he claimed he wanted Nikki, he didn't, really.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: He wanted the idealized version of her, and the life
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: that they could have together that he created in his mind.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: He keeps telling her to be normal after she's possessed,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: to just be Nikki, a very clear indicator that he
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: knows that she isn't Nikki, but he wants the Nikki
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: who was in love with him without the fear of
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: her rejecting him. That being said, the wording matters in
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: terms of bear's intentions. When he made the wish, his
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: words are not getting twisted. He could have wished to
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: be the person she'd want. He wished to make her
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: essentially subservient to his desires. So I think that's important.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I said monkey paw, so obviously not.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: I think, though, I get it because the idea of
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: a wish not going how you want. Yeah. I get,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: I think I called it monkey paw too. But I
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: think that distinction is important, that it's not like it
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: was twisting his words.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: It was his choices that was being interesting because I
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: do remember when he was reading, trying to research about
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: this specific thing. And one of the wishes were like,
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: he's one of the comments where it works and it's amazing.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: My mom is so happy. She's so gorgeous and she's
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: so happy about herself. So that person had wished for
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: her mother to, to become beautiful or whatever whatnot. And
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: it seemed like it had worked out. Like they're all
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: happy because it wasn't about her necessarily, but letting her
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: mom have what she wanted. I just remember that one
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: for some reason.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And well, when he goes to the, a
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: very funny and absurd scene when he's covered in blood
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: and goes back to the store and it's like how
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: he's telling the cashier, like, how could you sell this
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: to people? This product is dangerous. Can you make the
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: wish to counteract my wish? And he says, the cashier
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: says so calmly, like, I already made my wish, man.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: That's great. He never says.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: What it is.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Whatever happened with him, he wasn't worried about it. So yes,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: it is a situation where he made a bad wish.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: And if you're looking up, I would urge you not to.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: But if you do stumble into the manosphere arguments of
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: why Bear is actually the victim here, A lot of
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: times they say he just worded it incorrectly. That's not true.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Especially because when he gets on the line with the
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: customer service people and he asked to alter it before
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: he's like, oh, I'll cancel it then. He asked to
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: alter it because he still wants this thing even though
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: he knows it's not her. Yes. So another trope, the
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: nice guy trope. The character bear would generally fall under
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: the nice guy trope. And this is a trope that
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: paints a guy as nice. He is usually nerdy and shy.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: But once you do a little digging underneath that, they're entitled,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: they're angry, they're vengeful. The scary thing about the nice
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: guy is that he's not openly radicalized, but he still
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: thinks women are objects. So you won't necessarily know. One
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: of the ways I see this manifesting with him is
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: how Bear weaponizes sympathy. So from the start, he uses
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: the death of his cat to garner sympathy. He takes
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Nikki's fake story that he later knows is fake and
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: keeps telling it about her dad having cancer to elicit
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: sympathy from their friends and kind of as a like
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: shield from their judgments. because the friends are really concerned
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: about Nikki's behavior. Another big conversation that's come out about
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: this has been about the victims of male loneliness and
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: male insecurity. So Bear is lonely. He's extremely lonely. He
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: doesn't have much going on. He lives in his grandmother's apartment,
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: and his grandmother has just died. His cat has just died.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: And in the beginning, all the stories, when he's doing
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: his practice confession, all the stories he shares about Nikki
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: involve her being the only one who was there for him.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Because he was lonely. He doesn't seem to have much
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: going on. And this is interesting when compared with Ian,
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: his kind of frat boy friend. Yeah.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Who literally tells him to, like, neg her, essentially.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: Yes. So if you had the two of them together,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: you would think Bear is not a threat. Both of
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: them are trying to control access to Nikki. Neither one
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: is good. I just think it's interesting that you'd probably
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: be more willing, oh, Bear might be fine. Nope. His
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: first reaction to Nikki saying she wants to quit and
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: continue writing is not support our curiosity, but instead a
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: knee-jerk reaction about not seeing her anymore and assuming that
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: she's writing romance. So not wanting to be lonely again
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: and worrying that she'll move on. It's not that I
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: don't get the, oh, I'm going to miss you, but
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: he immediately was like, oh. I'm not going to ask
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: her about what she wants or anything like that. Patriarchy
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: hurts everybody. There are systemic reasons contributing, at least in part,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: to why Bear is so lonely. But the violence is
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: often directed at women. This brings us to my lack
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: of care point. He does not care about Nikki. I
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: cannot stress this enough, not truly. At multiple points, he
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem to know much about her, and even the
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: things he does know, like she doesn't like the nickname
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: Freaky Nikki, he disregards in hopes of getting with her.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: She repeatedly tries to make clear that it isn't her,
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: it's not me, and he doesn't care. She smashes her
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: head in, and he won't look at her. He's mostly
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: annoyed and angry and took her home and yelled at
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: her to just be Nikki. Like, she's still covered in blood.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: If you pay attention, this is just a fun detail,
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Nikki seems to snap out of her possession when she
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: sees her reflection in a mirror or some type of
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: reflective surface. So she recognizes it's not her. I just
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: thought that was cool. I also would say he's not
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: really being honest about who he is with her either.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: They just don't seem to have, as much as he
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: built it up with his confession, they don't seem to
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: have a very communicative relationship. And I mean, he didn't
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: know about her being with Ian, and it's not any
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: of his business. But I just think there's a lot
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: of things that, I don't think he really cared about her, man. Yes,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: as I said, every memory he shares about how much
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: he loves her center on her attention on him. He
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: doesn't ask questions about her when they're on their date.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: Other than, oh, hey, let me see how far this
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: wish thing goes. And this brings us to the cat. Yes,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: poor Sandy the cat, R.I.P. Sandy is Bear's cat, and
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: the story opens with him finding his cat dead in
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: his apartment. The cat then becomes a through line in
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: the movie with Nikki making a shrine to it and
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: cooking it and feeding it to an unsuspecting bear. The
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: cat represents Bear's lack of ability to take care of
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: living things that are under his supervision. So if you
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: look around his apartment, you can also see dead plants.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Sandy died because she was apparently hungry to the point
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: of starving. because she had torn open the bag of
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: cat food, and she got into Bear's grandmother's medicine and overdosed.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: And this implies that Bear did not secure the medication
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: and left it accessible for the cat. When Nikki is
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: reduced to a shadow of herself, and I do love
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: how they frame her in darkness all of the time,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: he treats her like a pet. He decides what they do,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: what they eat, what they watch, And yes, she even
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: wets herself waiting for him in that one spot. When
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: he takes the pills to overdose at the end, he
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: did not do that for her, in my opinion. I
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: think he was like, I'm in a situation, I don't
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: know how to get out of it. And then he
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: still backed out. That's my opinion. That's my.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Another trope, the crazy girlfriend. So this was inverted in
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of ways. I will say, in my opinion,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: everyone failed Nikki. Like, everybody. They dismissed her as being
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: crazy or on drugs. And to be fair, I wouldn't
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: go straight to possession either. But instead of trying to
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: help her, yeah, like, Sarah's worried, oh, she's taking advantage
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: of Hubert or... Ian's worried about, oh, how's it going
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: to look? And probably with a hint of he didn't
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: want Ian to be with her. They weren't genuinely worried
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: about her other than how it impacted him and them.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: The whole thing was very victim-blaming. I also just want
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: to throw in here, sometimes women are just nice. And
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: that's all it f * * * ing is. That's it.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: They were friends from high school. Or middle school.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: And that's always been a thing. That's it.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: That's it. That's all it is. I think it's interesting
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: that you could make the argument that Nikki is a
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: manic pixie dream girl or somewhere in that realm. But
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: I do think she was a legitimately nice person that
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Bear painted that way in his mind. Like that is
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: what he saw and wanted her to be. The more
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: you learn about her, the more that image cracks. And
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: one of the lines that stands out to me is
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: after she kills Sarah, Nikki says, you wished for this.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: You wished for this. And if you heard my heavy
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: sigh in our recent episode with Bridget about AI companions,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: it was because of how the male fear of rejection
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: has contributed to the rise of these companions. But I
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: couldn't talk about how I was like, obsession has this
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: whole thing too he's too afraid a rejection to be
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: honest about how he feels so i had to rein
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: myself in he wants to deal with nikki the sycophantic
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: ai he doesn't want nikki the person and he's the
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: one that made her the crazy girlfriend trope uh The
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: crazy girlfriend trope always puts the blame on the woman
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: without discussing why she might be that way. When you
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: think about it, statistically, men are often the ones stalking.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: They're the ones engaging in domestic violence, trapping women. And
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: these are all behaviors that she exhibits. But he's the
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: one that put her in that situation. That's not her. Mm-hmm. Also, interestingly,
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: it is hilarious and terrifying. The men using this movie
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: to be like, see, I'm vindicated. Women are crazy. Completely
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: missing the point. Really?
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, obviously, I mean, I feel like
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: obviously he keeps screaming at her, just be Nicky. when
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: she's acting like the crazy girlfriend, but he knows it's
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: not Nikki. He knows what he did. He knows that
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: he is the one that made this situation and he's
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: angry at her for it, but she wasn't the crazy girlfriend.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: He's the one that orchestrated this whole thing. And listen,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: by this point in the movie, he absolutely knew. I think,
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: Some people will argue about when, but at that point,
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: no way. He absolutely knew. If he's yelling at her
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: for like, please just be Nikki, why can't you just
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: be Nikki? No. I would guarantee a lot of the
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: men who think Bear is the victim don't like it
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: when women are not subservient to them and they get
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: mad when women are mad at them for cheating or
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: when women ask to be treated with respect. or as
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: a human being, to me, it's scary, the disillusionment you'd
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: have to have for this take. That's a wild thing
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: to me. But yeah, it does exist. And that's kind
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: of the update I wanted to do on my happy hour,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: because in there I said I was so glad most
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: people seemed to be understanding that Nikki was not the villain.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: She was the victim. But there were definitely the Manosphere
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: videos came out after that. And so finally, we're going
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: to talk about love in a couple of ways. So
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: as a part of the like crazy girlfriend trope, obsessive love,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: this does usually rely on the girlfriend in question being
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: obsessed with the guy in question. In this case, it
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: was a wish forced upon her. And this is pretty
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: telling to me because it feels like a commentary on
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: writer's to force this on women characters. A lot of
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: these sometimes romanticized obsessive behaviors are used for horror, including
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: the thing many women hate hearing, just smile, just be pleasant.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: She has so many creepy smiles in this movie. She
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: laughs way too loud. She cries too loud. She gives
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: her family heirloom to him. all of it feels very
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: demonic and not human. And yeah, her performance is amazing
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: and unpredictable. They did not use CGI or AI. It
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: was her and makeup, all of that. Wow. Yep, yep, yep, yep.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: And then kind of like at the end, having the
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: really sad turn where she's like screaming, why don't you
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: love me? And there's the dead body of Sarah. And
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: she's trying to look like Sarah and she's trying to
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: smoke to be like Sarah. And he could have had Sarah.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: It's just, it's really tragic, the whole thing. Oh, also,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: there is a kind of Easter egg where you can
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: see an ad for the One Wish Willow. And it says,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: dangerous when used by people that are insecure or obsessive. Hmm.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: So this brings us to something Nikki says in the
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: beginning of the movie where she's kind of, she's talking
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: about a book she's writing and Bear immediately assumes it's
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: a romance and she says, no, it's a love story.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: He says, aren't they the same thing? And she says, no.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: So let us break that down a little bit. From Oprah.com,
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: in America, we live in a culture that glorifies passionate
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: romantic love. Our friends are in love, dreaming or daydreaming
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: of it. waiting and dating to fall into it. Women
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: and men begin new lives in love. Romantic love is
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: our inspiration, our motivation, our reason to be. Romance is
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: a cultural obsession, an imperial ideal. We believe that love
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: can be found here and now and forever in an
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: instant across a crowded room or tomorrow just around the corner.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: It can, but rarely. In reality, romance is more fleeting
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: and more dangerous than we are told, more complicated than
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: we could have imagined. more elusive than we've been led
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: to believe. Love is a promise made every day only
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: to be broken tomorrow. So I like this quote because
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: of how it talks about the cultural obsession of how
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: this will kind of fix my problems, which I think
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: Bear has really attached himself to. Psychology Today wrote about
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: obsession in this context. a fixation on an object followed
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: by the uncertainty of reciprocity, what we call a limerence
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: and the desperate need to resolve it by searching for
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: hints of affection. I mean, that's it. He's fixated on Nikki.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: He's uncertain if she reciprocates and he's determined to search
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: for these hints of affection. There's also a part of
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: that article talks about, um, The person that you believe
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: is the one that sees you, truly sees you. And
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: he thinks that Nikki is that person. But it's an
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: obsession about controlling her body and her choice. And there's
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of great video essays out there about this.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: But just the way he words the wish and the
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: way he acts after, that's really what he was obsessed with.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: So Nikki and Bear... have these different ideas of love
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: stories and of what love is. And maybe this sums
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: up how some men could interpret this movie so differently
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: than like everyone else. Fear of consequences versus fear of
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: loss of autonomy. Whose needs did he think mattered more
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: to achieve this love that he wanted? And how did
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: it look? It looked like her staying in the box
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: that he put her in and him being Her entire world,
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: which is not healthy. He did not care about her choices.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: He wanted to protect his ego and use her to
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: solve his problems. He wanted to believe he was a
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: good guy who deserved her, even as the evidence he's
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: not piles up. He never tried to help her. Not once.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: That is not love. That's not even friendship. And he
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: thinks that it's okay because of whatever patriarchal systemic shit
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: he's absorbed. at least on some level. And when we
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: look at the news and what's going on and the
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: taking away of women's choices and how women are viewed,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: it's no wonder, unfortunately. So there's my whole thing. about obsession.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: I could have gone on and on, but like I said,
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: so many people have been talking about this. It started
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: a lot of conversations. So if you want to learn more,
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: you absolutely can. It is out there. There are some
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: really wonderful think pieces about it, and then some fun things. Like, legally,
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: the company behind One Wish Willow, you'd be sued. You'd
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: be sued to oblivion.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. If you can prove it. Like,
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: that's the problem with, like, this type of magic, so
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: no one really believes it until they do it.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the big point in the argument, though,
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: was if you have a product where on a consumer level,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: On a customer services line, they say, well, one way
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: to end the wish is to kill yourself. One, presumably,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: you'd think it was recorded. And so that's a pretty
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: big issue for the lawsuit.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, yes, but.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: Yes. No, I mean, that's the thing. That's the biggest
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: issue with Nikki's legal defense, because, I mean, what is
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: she going to do now? is that, at least in
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: the videos I watch, she has a really great legal defense, actually,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: but it depends on people believing that this product worked.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: And what jury and judge are going to believe that. Yeah. Well, thanks, everybody.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: This has been fun for me. It's a nice birthday
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: episode for me.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: Fantastic. Thank you for sharing.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you for watching. I did.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Yes. Well, listeners, if you have any thoughts, please let
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: us know. You can email us at hello at stuffmonevertoldyou.com.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: You can find us on Blue Sky at Mom's Top
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: Podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuffmonevertoldyou. We're also
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: on YouTube. We have some merchandise at Cotton Bureau. And
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: we have a book you can get wherever you get
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: your books. Thanks, as always, to our super producer, Rima,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: and our executive producer, Maya.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: And thanks to you for listening. Stuff I Never Told
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: You is produced by Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
• 1:01:30
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• 1:01:32
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