Latest / Bring The Thunder Podcast / THUNDER ROTATION DEBATE… Ajay Mitchell Rising, Dort & Wiggins Minutes, McCain Playoff Role | Bring The Thunder Podcast Ep. 42

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THUNDER ROTATION DEBATE… Ajay Mitchell Rising, Dort & Wiggins Minutes, McCain Playoff Role | Bring The Thunder Podcast Ep. 42 · Bring The Thunder Podcast

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  You're listening to the Bring the Thunder Podcast, a podcast
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  by fans, for fans. Yes, you are welcome everybody
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  to another episode from the Bring the Thunder podcast.
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  We got myself, Joe and Savvy are here today.
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  We just have a couple OK C related topics to talk about
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  today. So kind of bouncing all over the
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  place, different concepts, different ideas, different
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  players. But without further ado, Joe,
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  what do we start with today? Yeah, before we actually start,
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  I just want to shout out everybody to subscribe who has
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  subscribed to the channel. We're so close to our goal of
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  1000 Subs. If you don't mind, it's free to
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  do go over, hit the subscribe button.
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  Obviously like the video, if you like the video.
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  Anyway, we're starting off here with more rotation stuff, and I
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  feel like we've done this a lot this year due to injuries due to
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  up and down minutes. We're kind of seeing where
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  they're at and that starts here with AJ Mitchell being in the
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  starting lineup the last two games.
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  Obviously comes back against Denver, scores 24 off the bench,
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  starts the next two against Boston and Minnesota.
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  Your guys thoughts like moving forward with Aji, just think
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  he's going to the bench no matter what when Dubs back, but
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  like he's clearly a king D key to our success.
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  So your guys thoughts where, where he's at?
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  Yeah, I mean, for me personally it it's tough because you
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  mentioned the idea of when when J dub comes back, like what
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  happens? And that's where I don't really
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  know right now because we don't know how anything is going to
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  look when J dub comes back. I mean, for all we know and
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  we'll get into some of this stuff later.
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  But there have been other players who minutes have been
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  getting moved around and and different lineups have been
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  tested. And ultimately we've talked
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  about this idea of OKC can run whatever line up they want
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  against the match up. But at the end of the day, we
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  also know that Mark is going to have a go to line up.
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  He's going to have his main starting line up and it's going
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  to be Shay Dub, Chet Hartenstein and Dort.
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  Dort's going to be in that spot. That's just how it is.
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  I don't think anything's going to change that.
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  Joe. We kind of talked about in the
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  post game the other day that even if Dort loses minutes, he's
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  not going to lose the starting spot because ultimately you just
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  can't afford to take away that sort of defense.
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  So Dort's probably going to stay there no matter what.
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  So it it comes to like AJ being the first guy off the bench,
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  does he end up getting more minutes in games than Dort does
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  overall though? And I think he does based on the
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  match up. I mean, there's a lot of
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  situations where I want AJ in more than I want Doran.
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  Because there are times where we've talked about Dort's
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  offensive inconsistency. They're just not something you
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  can live with. Like when we have so many good
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  defenders, so many guys who can guard on ball, it makes more
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  sense to have AJ in. So it depends on that match up.
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  You talked about the Celtics match up, Joe, where they have
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  JB and Tatum. Yeah, you need Dor for that.
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  Dor's gonna get it. He's gonna rough him up.
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  He's the best on ball defender in the NBA at times.
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  So you put him on Tatum, you put him on JB, you switch him, it
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  works. AJ is not gonna be able to do
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  that. So it's gonna be match up
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  dependent. But for me right now, AJ is
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  gonna remain the guy who comes off that bench super early on.
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  He's gonna give Shay a rest in terms of play making and he's
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  gonna ultimately have several games where I think more often
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  than not he will end up with more minutes than Dorp.
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  Savier. Yeah, I have a fun stop for you
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  guys. Most stops for 100 possessions
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  in this regular season. Our top 8 for this is actually
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  #4 Cason Wallace at 4.1 and at #8 surprisingly enough, AJ
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  Mitchell in the limited amount of minutes, 3.6 stops.
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  So that tells you all you kind of need to know.
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  We have kind of another person that's pretty much the same type
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  of player as Cason Wallace, just a younger virgin version of
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  Ludor. And then we have AJ, who's able
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  to do pretty much equivalent production as well while also
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  providing a lot more often. So I mean, the numbers kind of
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  back up where Sam Presti's been heading in the last two games,
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  at least to give him, you know, a lot of minutes in the first
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  two quarters and then you'll see him maybe play half of 1/3 and
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  then pretty much none in the fourth quarter when it really
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  matters. And I mean, he may keep the
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  starting spot, but like you guys are mentioning, AJ is going to
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  definitely get more minutes throughout the game just
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  naturally, especially until J Dub is back.
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  I I think it'll get closer to where they're evenly playing the
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  games just due to I guess matchups and everything.
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  But for the most part, we will see AJ kind of get more minutes
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  there. Yeah, he's going to close games
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  too. Like, I guess we least go hand
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  in hand. We're talking about AJ, we're
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  talking about Dort. AJ is up, Dort's down.
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  Obviously at the time has come for this.
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  AJ is unbelievable. So like against like a team like
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  Denver closing lineups and stuff, it's going to be like
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  Shay Dub and Ajaj did fantastic on Jamal Murray a couple nights
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  ago when we when we beat them and Shay at the game winner.
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  But he he did a really good job on Jamal Murray.
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  Dort is not needed in that situation.
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  Like Gabe, you mentioned it before, like Dort's needed on
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  bigger forwards, Tatum, maybe Brown, maybe like Luca, guys
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  like that in in a case where you're playing a San Antonio
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  team, a Denver team, Dort's not needed.
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  It's just not his match up. And Mark's finally figured that
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  out. So that's what we're going to
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  see. Like it's match up based still.
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  We're going to see more of AJ, which everybody is, you know,
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  loves and less of Dort, which is a little controversial.
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  But in the match ups, it's not like if he plays them enough
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  minutes against a Boston team in the finals, makes sense.
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  The other two teams I mentioned makes sense that he doesn't play
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  as much. That's it.
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  Another guy that's been losing minutes and it's unfortunate
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  because such he's such a fan favorite, but it's Aaron
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  Wiggins. He's falling out of the lineup.
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  And at this point, like last year, I argued about it all
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  year. I can't even argue anymore.
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  Gentlemen like Isaiah Joe's outstanding, he's been
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  outstanding. Jared McCain's fitting in on
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  this team perfectly. They're like 3 point specialists
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  and even mid range specialist. Wigs is great, but he's not a
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  specialist at anything and his three-point shot was absolutely
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  he's lost it. So I'm I'm good with this.
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  I think we won't see him much at all in the playoffs and if we
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  do, it's going to be interesting that we did.
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  Yeah, I I agree. I think it's also really
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  important that AJ gets these kinds of minutes and like for
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  his game to evolve and for him to become more consistent
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  closer, he's got to get these minutes in these games.
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  So seeing that last game where ultimately against Minnesota, AJ
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  ends up getting the nod and Dort starts to lose over minutes,
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  that's what I want to see. Like that's something that I
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  think Mark has done really well. And Joe, we also talked about
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  this a lot. Mark's been doing well recently
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  with the lineups and he's been managing minutes well, which
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  that's the biggest difficulty for him of all.
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  And it's always been a problem for him.
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  But it's only getting harder with the way that he's filling
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  out with McCain, with Dort having inconsistency, it's with
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  AJ being here, with Topich suddenly coming back.
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  Like that is the biggest thing that we've mentioned so many
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  times on this podcast is what a horrible situation to be in if
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  you're Mark Dagnell having to figure out who plays, who gets
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  what minutes, when do I close, all that good stuff.
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  And more often than not, it feels like recently he's been
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  making the right choice. But we've also really gotten on
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  him in the past for making the wrong choice at the worst
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  possible times in the Dallas series that we lost.
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  It happened a lot in the play offs last year in certain times
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  where we got really frustrated. So it it's it's scary for me as
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  as a fan watching, not knowing what's gonna happen.
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  But if AJ doesn't get these closing minutes and doesn't get
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  these big time minutes, I don't know if he's ever gonna progress
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  past what he's at right now. And he deserves to get those
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  minutes. He's proven that he's more than
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  good enough. He's proven that he can give
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  Shay a relief off the ball. And we talked about some people
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  were commenting that Shay or that a JS, he's not a good
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  three-point shooter And obviously, no, he's not a
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  sniper. He's not like phenomenal, but
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  he's good. Like I I want him shooting.
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  I like what he's doing, all that stuff.
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  So I'm glad to see that scenario.
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  But talking about Wiggins as well.
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  Sorry, I got off track there. But it's like you said, Joe, the
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  thing that concerns me with Wiggins is exactly what you said
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  and the fact that he's not a specialist like that's Jack
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  would be. Punched.
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  Heartbroken. Heartbroken.
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  He would be disagreeing with us on literally everything.
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  It's unfortunate to see, but those minutes have got to go
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  somewhere. And it kind of gets to a point
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  where I don't know, man. It gets to a point where it's
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  like we have AJ, we have so many guys who I want getting those
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  minutes and he's going back to AJ here.
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  But like, he's the main one that stands out to me that like, if
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  Wiggins is going to be one of the guys who loses minutes, it's
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  got to go to guys like AJ and McCain and Joe.
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  Right. And you're going to get
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  obviously AJ is the best off the bench.
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  So that's not even the question. McCain 3 point specialist knock
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  down shooter, Joe 3 point specialist knock down shooter.
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  And then you got defensive guys, Cason Wallace, if you want to
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  put Ken Rich Williams in there, Wiggins says just you're not
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  going to put them in for scoring because the two guys I mentioned
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  before, McCain and Joe are better scorers, better shooters.
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  You're not going to put them in for defense because Caruso and
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  Cason, Kennard, Williams better defenders.
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  It just makes sense, that Beard that he's going to, he's going
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  to fall off and it's unfortunate, but it has to be
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  that way. Yeah, let me give you guys some
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  more stats to back this up. And clearly the coach is
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  noticing kind of the lulls that these guys have had and kind of
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  waited. One thing I knew love about this
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  coach is he's not going to stop playing you just because you're
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  doing poorly. But if you give him a 4050 game
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  sample size, eventually he'll even pull the cord on it.
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  And we're starting to see as we're nearing playoff time, like
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  that's pretty much what he's done.
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  I I mentioned this throughout the time we've been recording,
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  like when is it going to be the time to pull the, you know, dork
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  plug? And we've seen that happen, you
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  know, in the recent games. And it's kind of happening with
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  Aaron Wiggins right now. He played a season low 6
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  minutes. Dork played season low 18
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  minutes. So I just think that's kind of
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  the direction we're headed. And yeah.
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  It's just it's upsetting to me because like 2 fan favorites,
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  but it's just it, it has to be done.
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  Anyway, talking about McCain as well as one of those specialists
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  off the bench, playoff minutes, we're going to talk about that
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  really quick. Obviously for me, it's going to
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  be in stretches. It's just like I don't expect 15
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  plus minutes a game. I do expect if we need offense
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  and spacing, McCain to come in for like quick 6 minutes, knock
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  down a few shots and get them off.
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  That's what I'm just seeing happen or thinking that I'm
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  going to see happen. Your guys thoughts on, you know,
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  where do you want McCain's playoff minutes to be and if
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  he's going to get any at all? The thing about McCain, from
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  what I'm witnessing at least, is he's not a guy who's going to
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  come in and get like 25 minutes off the bench.
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  That's just never going to happen.
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  Even if he's really feeling it, it's not going to happen because
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  he can do something that this team really needs and that's he
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  can score in spurts, he can score in quick groups, he can
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  get points real quick, come back off the bench and that's
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  necessary. Like we desperately need that.
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  Isaiah Joe does that super well. Wiggins used to do that super
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  well. It's been a day consistent more
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  recently, but he's going to be a guy who in those 15 to 20
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  minutes that he gets, it could literally be the reason we win a
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  game is because like look at the Minnesota game.
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  We absolutely ran away with it when McCain came in and hit like
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  3 threes in like 8 minutes. Like things just the game gets
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  opened up when OKC starts hitting their threes.
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  And that's something we've mentioned a lot is this idea of
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  you can't beat OK C if they're also hitting their threes
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  consistently. Having a guy who can come off
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  screens the way McCain does, having a guy who's confident
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  shooting real deep threes and being able to hit them alongside
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  Isaiah Joe is something that we've never had before.
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  We've never had this level of sharp shooting from players.
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  And and that's super dangerous. So the minutes from McCain, they
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  have to come in those spurts in those 5 minutes at a time.
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  Maybe, maybe he comes in 5 minutes in the first quarter,
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  five in the second, and then 10 between the 3rd and 4th.
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  But it, it's what he does in that time that absolutely breaks
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  open games for us. So he's never gonna, he could
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  have, he got 8 threes and, and I don't think Mark would play him
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  more than 23 minutes. Like it's not who he is, it's
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  not what he does. He comes in, he shoots the ball.
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  He's either gonna hit him, which more often than not, he meant
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  he, he's able to do that. But the concern with him, for me
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  at least, is he can be streaky. Like that's that's how shooters
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  are. And for us, luckily we've not
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  seen that downside. There's been a couple games
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  maybe, but for the most part he's been good, he's been
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  consistent. So ultimately it's just going to
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  come down to the minutes giving him those spurts, hoping he can
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  make a big impact with his unit runs.
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  Yeah, you're right there, too. And like you mentioned, he's not
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  going to make an impact really anywhere else outside of
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  shooting. So if he's not shooting the
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  ball, you know, well, we don't need him in the game.
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  You throw Isaiah Joe in there, but from what we've seen it's
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  pretty consistent and it's in bunches.
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  So real excited for him to get those like spot minutes in the
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  play offs, especially when we need the points.
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  Yeah. And I guess my closing thoughts
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  on McCain in the play offs would be, I mean, it's just been
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  pretty impressive for him to get cut from a team, figure himself
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  out, get on a new team and then on the fly kind of make those
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  adjustments. And one of the things that I
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  think Mark mentioned in his recent game was the main thing
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  they want him to do is just try on defense.
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  I think one of the reasons that I'm noticing that I didn't
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  notice on the 76ers because it wasn't as obvious because they
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  have a lot of really good defenders around him.
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  His defense, when you scale it up to the NBA, isn't as good as
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  maybe what I thought it was. And now getting to see him more
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  up close and personal with the Thunder because I don't watch
• 13:45
  that many 76ers games. Like I've seen him have good
• 13:47
  games and good offensive nights, but I've also seen maybe why
• 13:52
  they traded him away, right? Like he's not he's not a guy
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  like you mentioned Gabe where you can give him over 25
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  minutes. That's just not where skill
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  wise, like he's going to be able to get to unless he can develop
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  defense like AJ, which we've had great, you know, success with
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  developing offensive guys to become, you know, above average
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  defenders right now. I would say he's still probably
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  below average. He was getting picked on, you
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  know, in the previous game and in most of the games I've seen,
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  he's the one guy as soon as he gets on the court, the best
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  player on the other team is like, all right, we're going to
• 14:22
  just keep running this pick and roll with McCain in it.
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  And so that's the reason for his limited minutes.
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  But his role offensively is super crucial, super vital.
• 14:30
  And I think he'll get minutes in the playoffs, at least 15 just
• 14:35
  to have those offensive stretches.
• 14:36
  I prefer it early in the fourth quarters, you know, late thirds
• 14:40
  to kind of pull away from teams or we need to, you know, come
• 14:44
  out hot in the fourth quarter where maybe, you know, a team
• 14:46
  caught up to us in the third. I think he's useful for, you
• 14:50
  know, those scenarios. And that's where, you know, Dort
• 14:53
  and Wiggins kind of lose out minutes because we have so many
• 14:55
  of these guys where we need them in certain spots.
• 14:58
  And we just have so many guys. And with J Dub and Shay, there's
• 15:03
  just so many, so many minutes when it comes to the playoffs.
• 15:07
  Yeah, again with him like more minutes is also a match up base
• 15:10
  like against the Timberwolves the other day, the the effort on
• 15:14
  defense is there like he he's caused a fast break.
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  He stole the ball. I think it ended up in a Chet
• 15:20
  alley oop or shade lap, whatever happened.
• 15:23
  Like he's playing his ass off. He's going to get the minutes or
• 15:24
  just when, when and where. I think you nailed it kind of
• 15:27
  like that late 3rd, early 4th. That's kind of where he's been
• 15:30
  real effective so far this regular season with OK C and I
• 15:34
  don't expect that to change. Last thing for me is like, I
• 15:37
  don't consistently expect 15 minutes.
• 15:40
  Like one night. If we need the 15, he's going to
• 15:42
  get them the other night. I can see it just being like 7
• 15:45
  minutes completely fine. Come in, hit a three or shoot 3
• 15:49
  and and we'll see where where they go from there.
• 15:51
  All game based, game to game. It's going to change.
• 15:54
  But that being said, thank you guys so much for tuning in to
• 15:57
  the Bring the Thunder podcast. What is this episode 42, almost
• 16:01
  episode 42, something like that little smaller today.
• 16:04
  Just talking about rotations, but that's what we're seeing
• 16:06
  right now. Obviously it'll all change when
• 16:08
  dub's back. We'll have to do it all over
• 16:09
  again probably but or if dub comes back at this point, but
• 16:15
  we'll keep you guys updated with all that stuff.
• 16:17
  Thank you for tuning in. If you like the video like the
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  only stuff We just released a what do we do our our own March
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  that all that good stuff exactly We'll see you guys next time and
• 16:41
  as always, don't roll baby let's.