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Aircraft grounded after FAA take action against popular trust company · Flyer Magazine

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the fly show from the Session 182 Annual Inspection.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_04: Hello and welcome to the Fly Show brought to you from an un Hello and welcome to the Fly Show brought to you from a surprisingly frosty and icy Wandswick.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_04: It's a bit buggy this morning.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um my name's Ian Steegner.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Ed Hicks, and I'm Dave Corderwood.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_04: And we started off this week wondering what the hell are we going to talk about in this week's show.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_04: There was no news, nothing was happening, and there's been avalanche of bloody news.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_04: So we've got tons of it to get through.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um but we'll get to that in a little while.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_04: First of all, we have to say huge thanks to Sky Demon for supporting the show, and here is this week's top tip.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, I'm Rob from Sky Demon, and here's another top tip.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: In Sky Demon, you can break up a long-planned trip into multiple sectors.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: To do this, bring up the What's Here menu and choose Routing for an airfield along the route.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Then choose Land Here.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: I now have a multi-sector trip, and the pilot log and other functions only refer to the active sector, which I can set by tapping it.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: But what if I want to view or manage the entire trip as a whole?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Under the route menu, you'll now notice there is a trip overview feature.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: On this screen, you can see the total distance, time and fuel burn for the entire trip, and then each sector listed sequentially, with a mini block for each one.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: This screen is a great way to manage the fuel planning for your trip.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: The fuel plan button is how you set the amount of fuel you're going to carry for a sector and also shows the breakdown of the minimum fuel requirements calculated for that sector.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: You can see here that Sky Demon is alerting us that we need to add extra fuel at the end of this first sector because we will finish with less than what we've got planned for the second one.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: However, looking at the requirements for the second one, there's actually no need for us to be carrying all that fuel.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, we can use this use remaining fuel button, and Sky Demon will set the planned fuel equal to that which is expected to still be remaining in the tanks from the previous.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: For more information, check out our website www.skydemon.era.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_04: So there you go.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_04: If longer trips are your thing, there's some extra tours for you.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's a good tool if you're a big tourer.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_04: Or even a small tourer that goes a long way.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: There we go, yeah.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and if you're thinking of touring, maybe not this early in the season, but who knows?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder what the weather is going to be like.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and let's see what Simon has for us.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: Come on, Simon.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Evening everyone.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Hope that you're well this evening and looking forward to getting some flying in this weekend.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually quite a messy weekend ahead, but there is some flying to be found.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let me try and pick out at least some of the detail.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: These are the forecast charts going through Friday showing forecast cloud and rain.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: And notice how we go through the day, how the cloud breaks.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: The grey colours uh tell us where the best of the breaks are.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: But you can see some rain there coming onto western and southern coasts.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just showers, really, uh getting in there from time to time.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Now, as we go through the course of um this evening and overnight, still got those showers around.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Could be that we get an area of more persistent rain just drifting northwards across parts of south-east England.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: But you notice those showers are still out towards the west as we head in towards Saturday morning.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now, through Saturday itself, those are patches of rain clearing away from Lincolnshire and the northeast coasts.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then through Saturday afternoon, we've just got one or two heavy showers that want to try and develop across parts of southern England, the southern Midlands, southwest England, probably western and southern Wales into uh western and southwestern parts of Scotland.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Could be some CUNIMs in here, bases 3,000 feet, tops are probably at around 15,000 feet.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Just check the weather carefully before you go, because they could be just clumped together into uh areas of heavier precipitation, but for most it doesn't look bad.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: It may be quite a misty murky start, but that should lift and then typical base is 4,000 feet, tops at about 8,000 feet.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Headed into Sunday and um not a bad day again, really broken cloud around.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, some showers affecting western Scotland, perhaps a little bit of light rain here, and again, could see a little bit of light rain just getting into northwestern parts of England, western parts of Wales.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Notice this area of more persistent rain affecting the eastern channel, making for non-VFR conditions here.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: But generally for most of us, yes, again, quite a misty morning, maybe some fog around for a time, but that will lift.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then we're looking at more broken cloud and probably three to four thousand foot bases, tops at around about seven thousand feet, but obviously increased cloud out west because of that line of showery rain that you see there.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And again, down in the southeast, we're looking at bases of a thousand feet to two thousand feet, tops probably at around fifteen thousand feet, and watch out for some embedded CUNIM in there as well.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, all in all, not a bad weekend.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Those of you who have already been to Aviation Weather School Part 1, I know we'll now be adding to that forecast and adding your own little bits in uh from the information that I gave you so that you can make better predictions for the flight that you want to take.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have not been to Aviation Weather School yet, this is your chance.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a single place left on the Tuesday evenings of the 27th of January and the 3rd of February between 6 30 pm and 9 pm.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: I will show you how you can spot weather windows five days in advance.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: I will increase your weather confidence and I will get you flying more and more safely.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's for everybody, regardless of experience.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Pre-PPLs have done this right the way through to commercial pilots, and everyone says they've learned a lot from it.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want that place, go to weatherschool.co.uk now or scan the QR code.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: And whatever you're doing, have a fantastic, have a safe flying weekend.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Bye for now.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_04: Looks like some rain.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_04: Looks like some rain.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_04: Let's hope those grass strips, which many of which have been kind of dry.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe a bit less dry.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, earlier we talked about news and the fact that there's tons and tons of it, and so we're going to kick off with news.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I've got the first story, which was yesterday there was a bit of a shock email arrived from Southern Aircraft Consultancy, a trust company that looks after 805 aircraft on the November register.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_04: You probably know, but just in case uh a non-US citizen or entity can't own an En-RIG aircraft, so they are owned through trusts.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_04: Uh anyway, so there's uh there's a bunch of stuff that was that was said, but effectively, I need to read this to give you the exact words.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um Southern Aircraft Consultancy wrote to all of us, and yes, I am grounded in the 182, or the 182 is grounded, I should say.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um part of the communication said that the FAF decided that a Southern Aircraft Consultancy is not classed as a US citizen and is therefore no longer eligible to register aircraft.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_04: All aircraft currently registered to Southern Aircraft Consultancy, therefore, need to be grounded with immediate effect.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_04: That was yesterday, um, and not flown again until they're re-registered with the FAA.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_04: And all certificates of registration for aircraft registered to Southern Aircraft Consultancy should be returned to the FAA within 21 days.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_04: That's a big and as you can imagine, uh there was an awful lot of emails, messages, phone calls, and stuff going on last night to try and figure this out.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: And this is a it's a big list, isn't it?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: By scrolling.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: The list was circulating on the internet last night, and you scroll through it and it's like modern types, vintage, classic, war birds.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_04: All right, all sorts.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_04: All sorts.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um the FAA, there's a link.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: So the CA sent this out to remind people via Skywise, uh, one of those Skywise uh communications.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_04: And that linked to the FAA document about it.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_04: And the FAA document said uh Southern Aircraft Consultancy, Inc.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_04: registered aircraft for U.S.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: citizens and foreign nationals using trust agreements.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_04: To register an aircraft using a trust agreement, the company, Stroke Trustee, must be either a US citizen or a resident alien.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_04: The FAA found that SACI violated FAA regulations regarding U.S.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_04: citizenship requirements and must return registration certificates with to the FAA within 21 days of certification.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_04: SAC, it should be said, are disputing this and say they have their lawyers talking to the FAA, both lawyers here and there, uh, et cetera, et cetera.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'd have to say the SAC have made it, have kind of said they are trying to get it sorted out and they are hoping to have an agreement with an American company.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and for so nothing needs to be done.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_04: On the other hand, they've also said, if however you wish to dissolve your trust, no problem, here are the wording you need to use in an email to us, send us proof of postage of the registration certificate.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_04: And I know I personally know a couple of people who've done that overnight who've already registered with a new trust in the US.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_04: And SAC have been good to their word and got the um got the document, required document, the bill of sale effectively, back to those uh people within half an hour of them requesting it.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_04: So that's been pretty impressive.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: And this just came straight out of the blue, no no warning at all.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_04: As far as I I certainly had no warning of it.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_04: Whether other people within I I just don't know whether SAC or other people had warning of it, it I just don't know.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_04: But I certainly had no warning.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_04: It came out of the blue for me.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um but it is certainly possible to get it sorted.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_04: And it takes once you re-register with the FAA, if that's what you choose to do, then it's probably gonna take someone out of five or six days.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_04: So we are looking at aircraft, if that's the solution, being grounded for a week.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um which you know it's not the worst time of year to be grounded for a week, but it's still being grounded for a week.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: If you've if you have an an aeroplane in the UK that you fly um for business purposes and therefore you probably fly in most weathers, it could be that could be a major roadblock.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: Indeed, and there will be some people who happen to be away touring in sunny climbs.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, of course.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's not just grounded in the UK, it's grounded grounded wherever you happen to be.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um I mean the other option that you have, should you want to, is to go, okay, well, I I don't like the N-REG anymore for whatever reason.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_04: I'm going to re-register my aircraft on the G-Reg or F-REG or whichever.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_04: We we don't know how many of the 805 aircraft are in the UK, because they could be anywhere in the world.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um that begs the question, why do you register on the N-REG in the first place?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_04: There are lots of different reasons for lots of different people.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_04: For me, I went uh I moved to the N-REG quite a few years ago now on the Cessna 182, and I did that because at the time it was significantly easier to get an FAA instrument rating than it was to get a UK CA instrument rating.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_04: Now, even if you fly N-REG in the UK with an FAA instrument rating, which you need, you also need the UK equivalent as well.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_04: So I have a UK license as well as an American license.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_04: Even if you're doing it without the instrument rating, you need a uh a UK PPL in the UK.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_04: The other reason is from uh equipment fitting point of view, you know, the FAA, the American America is the biggest German aviation market in the world.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_04: So anyone who's doing an STC almost invariably will make sure that that's an FAA STC first.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_04: And so we get access to the latest Garmin software, the latest GARMIN equipment, that then takes time to get an EASA validation and then takes time to get a CA validation.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_04: And now that we've left the ARSA, the CA is a tiny, tiny market, and there are people who look at it and go, you know, I'm not gonna get my CA, my STC validated for the UK.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_04: I might only sell two or three things.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_04: It's not worth it.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_04: So gradually we kind of fall behind on that kind of thing.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_04: And then also uh the maintenance rules are I wouldn't say they're easier, they're probably not easier in many ways now, particularly now we've got Part M Lite and CS Stan and things like that.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_04: They make they are more flexible in many ways.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but the FAA rules are very um many people would say they are appropriate to the use of the aircraft, yeah.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_04: And they are pretty stable.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_04: The UK and European rules are not as stable and change frequently are difficult to get your head around.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um and it's certainly easier, you know.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_04: In the FAA, you can have all sorts of independent, you can have independent flight instructors without too much stuff.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: You can have independent engine AMPs, you can have independent IA, they are all independent, they don't necessarily all work for large companies, so you can have people, it's it's a more appropriate, flexible system in many ways.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it is true to say that when I first had the 182, um, it was maintained by a UK company, it was it was Golf Brother Lima Ek Whiskey.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um and it was my first aircraft danger.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_04: I learned a lot, and had I not found a brilliant AMP and had I not moved the airplane onto the N-REG, I wouldn't have been an airplane owner because it was costing me a fortune.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_04: I had no I had very little control or input over the process.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um I have to say, I it I I for a year I owned that Clipwing Cub, and that was on NREG.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and I was uh I was able to fly that.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: I was a UK PPL and I was on a PMD.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I was amazed at the flexibility.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_04: Which you can do in the UK.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: You couldn't have gone overseas.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't have toured with it.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um but uh but it was a very it was like you say, the maintenance is still a rigorous it's still a rigorous process, but I found it a very, uh, very enjoyable process.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_04: And it's one that's very it's you know, there's so much of it goes on.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_04: It's very easy to understand and uh and they have they have some really good practical parts to that as well.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_04: But I think you know there perhaps there was a time when people would say, well, the FAA maintenance is cheaper than UK maintenance.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think that's true these days.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um there must be many, many, many N-REG services, for example, that are maintained at fully uh dual-rated uh companies who are both G and N and there will be no price difference between the two, or very, very little.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_04: There's a a mini saving on some kind of insurance tax or something.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_04: But it you wouldn't do it.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_04: Don't don't go N-REG to save money.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_04: Would be my advice.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, so um so it yeah, I guess this it's an evolving story, isn't it?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: But it seems like uh lots of the ducks are in a row already.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_04: The ducks are the ducks are waddling towards getting themselves in a row.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_04: And I think the hope is that for many people um by the end of next week this will be something that this will be a little bump in the road.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_04: But but right now you are grounded.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_04: Right now I am grounded with the with the 804 others.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, with 804 others.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_04: You know, some people have asked me, is this going to be a trust thing for all trusts worldwide?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_04: No, I don't think it is.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_04: I mean if you look at the amount of aircraft there are flying around the world, there's a huge amount.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um I've just just remind me another reason I I went MEG is I I'm not not politically correct these days, but back in the day I did a long tour around Russia in the 182 and did a lot of touring throughout.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's very, very easy to find uh FAA approved engineers pretty much anywhere you like in the world.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_04: If you're gonna do that in a G-Reg aircraft and something goes wrong in some places, you have some issues that you need to deal with that are not easy to deal with.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um so if if you if you do tour a lot, then the N Reg again is the way to go.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um so yeah, ducks ducks are getting back in a row, and I think we'll be will be sorted before too long.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_04: I certainly hope so.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_04: I I don't I I don't like the idea of being around it.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well no, you were you know your aeroplane was just coming out with maintenance, wasn't it?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: So you were talking about oh I'll go and get that this weekend, maybe.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_04: Well, interestingly, in you know, I I got an email with the invoice for the annual.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_04: Then about an hour later, I got an em an email from the CA Skyboys going, whoa.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_04: Good news.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_04: Your aeroplane is now an ornament.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um hopefully that I mean it's a a lot of questions I've been asked about uh EnRedge and stuff like that.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_04: So hopefully over the next week or so we'll be able to get together with with videographer Henry and go take a look at my garden ornament at the time and and and make a video about that and and talk about you know wh why I did it, why other people do it, how you do it.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um and try and find out from the CA how you go back if that's the thing you want to do.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: If you were starting from scratch again with that aeroplane, would you go on the end?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_04: With that aeroplane now, I probably wouldn't know because I think with the um the flexibility that's been brought about part part M Lite and CS stand and stuff like that, you have a good way.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_04: What I would say is, and this is regardless of which register you're on, if you don't have a great understanding relationship with the person who maintains your aircraft, whatever license they do it with, then you will have an unpleasant experience.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess your if you're on the NREG with your 182, your uh engineer must have a US licence as well.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_04: Correct, okay, right.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_04: He actually only has a US licence.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Does that mean you can only work on Enregists?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_04: Engineering.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he can only work on NREGRE.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of c a lot of interesting questions there, aren't there?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Hidden away.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, there are.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_04: For sure.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_04: So hopefully, hopefully.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_04: We'll keep you keep keep a look at the news story.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_04: We'll update the news story as we get more information.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_04: Came out last night, was already updated with the SAC um statement when that came out.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_04: This is an evolving situation, as they say.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell This is an evolving situation, and hopefully before too long it'll be a historic situation.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, another evolving situation that involves the U.S.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um this is about unleaded Avgas and the the FAA, the same the same uh uh organization that Ian was just talking about, the FAA has come up with what it calls a transition plan to unleaded avalit unleaded aviation gasoline Avgas.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um basically they've uh they've there's quite a lot of pressure on the FAA to come up with a plan, and they've come up with a draft plan which they're sharing.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um they want to get rid of unleaded Avgas by 2030 in the mainland uh US and give they've given Alaska an extra two years because Alaska relies so much on the light aircraft.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um but whatever happens in America is gonna is gonna be followed up over here pretty soon.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: So this is gonna put pressure on Europe and the CAA to come up with uh its own plan, I've guessed although uh we'll be watching what happens in the US.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Now, weirdly, the US plan uh I I mean they're taking very practical attitudes to this.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: They're going to test thoroughly the three three contenders as as they put forward at the moment.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: The three contenders being GAME, with its G100 uh UL, uh which is already approved for STC, only on sale in a few few places at the moment.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's the SWIFT 100R, uh which is rolling out in stages.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's all that's already been sold in five locations across Europe.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's got that's backed by what's called an ASTM, uh which is the American Society of Something or other.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's basically it's it's a specif it's a standard specification, isn't it?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: Which G100UL isn't it?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: G100 UL hasn't gammy fuel, they have not applied for ASTM.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_04: ASTM approval, have they?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: The third uh fuel is Lionel Basel, big big word, uh and it's also working with a company called VP Racing.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh they have a comp something called UL100E, still undergoing full-scale FIA testing, uh, with approval targeted for 2027.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um but that has also just received uh ASTM backing.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that's well on its way, it seems.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_04: So I think the the G100 UL, the the GAME one, has a uh uh a large STC that covers pretty much all piston engines in fixed-wing aircraft.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't cover helicopters.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um the Swift fuel one they're going type by type.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_04: So the the you can buy it in five a few places in Europe, but it's limited to certain airframes.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's Cessna 117.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think the last time we looked, it was just specific model to 117.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_04: Which has an engine that is probably one of the most tolerant air engines.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_04: And then uh I yet to see what the third fuel will do.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_04: But it it's in terms of STCs.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well it's the FAA says it's gonna test key areas such as detonation.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, obviously that's a problem for for what the one reason why we've got lead is too anti-neck anti-knock qualities.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um so there's a detonation, very important, is compatibility with fuel systems, not just fuel systems in the aircraft, uh, but also fuel systems on the ground.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because airports and airfields are only gonna have probably one tank of this, so it has to be compatible.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um that and if they find that one fuel is not compatible with another, then you know there's a bit of an issue there.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so they want to try and get that absolutely right.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um and they loosely, they've the FAA has said it's kind of an all-encompassing phrase.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's got to be fit for purpose.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: So that that's kind of catch-all, really.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: If they find something that isn't fit for purpose.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it has been already said that the Gammy fuel, a few people have had some issues with it, and Cirrus and Piper have both said don't use it, haven't they?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_04: And there there's a there's an AMP who who has a YouTube channel who's been documenting his test.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it has to also be said that George Brady at GAMI has is completely refuted this.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: And and they and GAMI have spent years testing their their product solution.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_04: So that you know that's a debate that is ongoing.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_04: Ongoing.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, um by anyway, when the FAA has finished its testing, it's going to have obviously issue a report.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: But you get the impression that they're they're cut they they don't really know how it's going to turn out because they say the r the airports any airport that wants to sell fuel will have to decide for itself what's the best one for it.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess a lot of that will be driven by um by state legislation.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_04: I mean the whole thing is overshadowed by the fact that tetraethyl lead is really only manufactured in the UK.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: And without the TEL, which is the lead in in leaded A gas, then there there ain't no leaded Avgas.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_04: No, I know but the Trevor Burrus So its long-term future is also in doubt.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, there is.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: I did see a report that China is is thinking of making TEL.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_04: What's next in terms of news?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: Tons of news.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: There we go.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because if there wasn't enough news already I know yeah so it's me.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: So obviously you'll remember um back in October there was at the LAA AGM there was a situation with an LAA member, chap called Colin Hales, who was an LAA inspector.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: And he was removed he was expelled by the LAA just before the AGM on a number of conduct items.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: So basically he was also standing for election for the board.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: He was standing for election to the board.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: To the board yes at that AGM.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: And the the process took place the the here at the the conduct hearing took place just ahead of that time.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: So he was expelled before the AI Before the AGM yeah.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: So um and um so he was expelled obviously he appealed that and that's been in process that has the appeal has happened and yesterday or day before the LAA issued a member a letter to its members explaining that Collins appeal um basically their expelling of him has been upheld.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: And they said Mr.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: Hales's conduct had been considered by the Board to be prejudicial to the LAA on four counts.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: One of these so the four counts were sustained, inappropriate and denigrating communications sent to members of LAA staff despite repeated warnings to desist from sending such communications making unfounded, inappropriate and vexatious allegations that Mr.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: Hales was being victimized andor discriminated against by the LAA, his members of staff and officers and which the board considers were made in order to exert pressure on the LAA or influence LAA decision making.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: Making threats of unfounded legal action against LAA, its members of staff and officers which are then not pursued and which the board considers were being made in order to exert pressure on the LAA and its decision making and failure to comply with safety obligations which led to the revocation of Mr.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: Hales's inspector authorization.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: Now this appeal was held at To Weston and it was held by the LAA president who is a chap called Brian Davis.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: Mr Davis concluded that Mr Hales so there's a direct quote Mr Hales did not deny the evidence presented to him at the hearing and that while he did while he did seek to justify his actions, Mr.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: Hales did not provide a reasonable explanation for his behaviour.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: The President noted that Mr Hales did not acknowledge the impact his behaviour was having on LAA staff or the harm being caused to the reputation of the LAA both with members and the wider public.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: The LAA board said it considered the President's findings and decided that the decision to expel Mr.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: Hales from the membership for an indefinite period should stand.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: Now Colin has responded on Facebook to the the release of the letter with a lengthy post saying that the LAA still haven't told him fully and clearly why he was expelled and asking for the appeal hearing video to be released which he claims he was promised by the LAA president.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: Colin also encourages LAA members to call for an extraordinary extraordinary general meeting within a week if he doesn't get these answers.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: Now Flyer contacted LAA today just before the recording of the show to say are you releasing this video?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: And we've been told that that is in process.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_04: Okay so I mean and I think Colin has said if I remember if I remember rightly Colin's posts are quite long so make sure I got this right he said that he you know he would release if he got the video released to him he would release that video so that everybody could sit and watch it if they wanted to.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_04: I mean I have to say from the outside I have no dog in this fight if that's the it's it's a bit of a mess.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_04: Colin is clearly motivated and and understandably he's got an LA permit aircraft and making his living was was as an LA inspector.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_04: It just seems to me that on the one side you have an organization who are going through a process correctly or incorrectly.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know the details of that process are going through.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_04: On the other side an individual who whose social media posts are long and sometimes jumping about all over the place.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_04: A little bit and the whole thing really needs almost some kind of mediator to go in there and go and get the thing sorted out.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's not really doing it's not doing Colin House any good.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_04: No the the the the however well the LAF handled it, the optics of effectively removing him two days before the board meeting and I know I I did I have actually seen some some copy that said we tried to meet with him many times in the lead up to that and that we couldn't.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's covered in in the letter you know it was Yeah.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_04: I mean this is really turning into for want of a better word you said I said you said I said and it's like okay well how are you going to do this then?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_04: How are we going to move forward from this?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: So um and it's and it's a classic it seems like a classic situation as well that um a lot of this plays out across social media as well.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_04: And and I have to say I have seen and read and heard from people comments both supporting Colin and comments supporting the LAA.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_04: And so and without full transparency of everything taking place it's impossible to know where we are.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I don't think we ever get full transparency on what actually happened because uh because it's always going to be a bit of a one person's viewpoint isn't it?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: But but clearly you're right it just it just needs to be put to bed nicely as nicely as it can be.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: And a resolution.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah absolutely and and I would also just just add you know that um and we've we've had a couple of instances of it not very often but over the last 32 years you know when when people will write to you and they're clearly unhappy about something and passionate about something.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_04: And if you receive that letter or that email or that phone call and it's very abusive I'm not saying that colleagues were or weren't I haven't seen them you cannot deal with that.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_04: It's not that is not a way to resolve issues.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_04: No wherever it's coming from.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: So the news the news as we said keeps on coming and uh literally last night Ian dropped in our little communication channel about a story about Lyd, Lyd Airport.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um the local paper the Kent Online uh has come up with this story about how Lyd Airport lost 1.6 million quid um and so we you know I went a and had a look misplaced it.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah no no not misplaced it but uh anyway so I I went and had a look at the company accounts because they're they're they're on the company's house and and yes for the uh year ended 31st of December 2024 which is the most recent accounts um they lost uh 1.63 million pounds during that year uh there were and there are a little bit a few concerns in the uh in the balance sheet uh they it does say that for if you look it through the balance sheet get a bit of advice on this which I did um the the company's balance sheet solvent that's that's good um but operationally fragile uh they say with significant short-term liquidity pressure and a heavy reliance on ongoing support from its parent company um in fact at the bottom of the accounts that are published at on Companies House it does say there's a going concern note from the auditor there's a loss of 1.6 million uh which is uh up from 2023 and elsewhere it says that liabilities exceed current assets by 9.58 million that's quite a lot of money yeah that's all owned owed to the parent company handily the parent company is owned by a Saudi billionaire.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes so not sort of parent company is not short of money.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_04: Which helps.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yes yeah if it if it was owned by me it would be more of a concern.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: Partly I'd be going how did you how did you manage to buy an airfield and not tell us?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah yeah I would I wouldn't have the money to support a 1.6 million loss.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: No no cash at the bank unsurprisingly is surprisingly low for such a company 68K at the end of uh December twenty four.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: So what does it mean?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: It means that the Lyd Airport is not making any money uh but it's supported by its parent company.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that may be intentionally of course we don't know.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus Yeah there was a re I read a report that it uh uh the the previous plans have been to try and commercialise Lyd.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_04: Because I don't forget that Lyd in the past was a was actually a thriving commercial airport.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_04: It was but now I I I read something I had to reread it it said according to the Civil Aviation Authority statistics in whichever year it was a recent year, Lyd Airport had five commercial passengers and the year before had six or four or something like that.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_04: I I don't not quite sure how it's defining those.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_04: I mean it's clearly it it's a it's a it's a big GA stop-off for people in many in many cases although you don't you know customs requirement it's not a requirement to stop at Lyd or or anywhere else you these days different different subject go check out Dave White's webinar but yeah yeah it's uh but it it's a very useful training place.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_04: It's got instrument approaches it's not it's i it's used by a lot of people for instrument training it's a fairly clear airspace as well isn't it yeah yeah it's a straightforward place to use to operate for I mean I think you know you don't need to be too cynical to say that if it was somewhere else other than next to Dungeon Essen and Romney Marsh, it would be a housing estate by now.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway um Gloucester Airport also in the news this morning uh there's a plan B.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: There's a plan B.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: What is apparently uh the two councils, the bosses at the two councils involved behind the sale of Gloucestershire Airport this is Gloucester and uh Cheltenham uh the bosses have set a deadline to complete the deal to sell it to Horizon this is the company that's put in the offer yeah they've got to seal the complete the deal by the 31st of January or they're uh they're going to start looking at a plan B.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: We've no idea what plan B is at the moment but uh clearly the deal was supposed to have been completed by the end of November.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's kind of dragging on this is it's still in what's called the due diligence stage but clearly stuck somewhere.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_04: And there's did I I have a recollection that we were talking about there were some questions about the due diligence wasn't there that was brought up in local news there were some people there were some residents and some people locally who were bringing up questions about it and they were concerned at the fact that well there were suggestions and I don't know how accurate these were that you know parts of the airport had been shown by the prospective buyers to prospective developers of some kind.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_04: Not a whole lot but I mean who who knows and that may you know that may just have been some some people putting two and two together and making six.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah I don't I don't know.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_04: But clearly there's an issue if it if it's running late there's what we got two just over two weeks?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah that's not a long time.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what 25 million for that estate it's a big estate it's in a phenomenal location 25 million is 25 million is a bargain if you can if you can think of what you could do with it in future.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_04: 25 million is less of a bargain if you're running it as an airport as an airport and a a viable business.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_04: If you're borrowing 25 million and you're worried about interest payments on that 25 million that's going to be you know none of us could well I say none of us I certainly couldn't.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you could Dave but No no I don't think I could not even my with my DIY scales.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway finally for news what?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: Finally Popham Airport F Airfield Popham Airfield remember to take part in the consultation the that ends on the 23rd of January and it's a consultation over whether Popham Airfield should be included in the local plan and have uh a garden village built on top of it.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: And again this is it it's a reminder that uh this is this is a new consultation.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: So if you if you previously commented on it um when it took when it happened in would it have been 2025?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: Or was it even before that was anyway if you'd previously commented on the consultation the first consultation on Popham this time it's a it's it needs your renewed action.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely so I'm going to interrupt this program to talk about club news for a little bit because um we would like you to join the club.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_04: If you're not a member already please join the club flyer.co.uk forward slash membership costs you just six pounds per month absolute bargain why why should I join you should join because as long as you're not an NRIG aircraft pilot with the trust from the Southern aircraft consultancy at the moment you would get free landings that you could use in January for Redford Gamston Edsfield Longside plus a quiz.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_04: There you go well done plus there is a background library of webinars there's stuff from Nigel Webb on IC and we've got Ed Bellamy coming up soon on licensing there's there's a whole library probably of 30 plus videos now of webinars that were an hour long that you've got exclusive access to you have access to everything we do on site you have access to to post and read the forum freely and everything so all the articles all the content you can consume everything we do for six quid a month plus get the free landing fees plus other distance you get five quid five not five quid five percent off of pretty much almost everything at Poolie's for example with with a with a code at checkout.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_04: That's not that could save you membership.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_04: But the best reason to do it is not to save money although that's a good bonus it's so you can have you can join be part of the UK's best flying club.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly part yeah part of a great community.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah just a little word on that uh webinar coming up with Ed Bellamy that's uh Ed was he's going to be talking about the uh revalidation and renewal of licenses um based on what happened last October when there was a whole sea change of on on the regs.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll be bringing everybody up to date on that.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_04: I think that would have I mean things the there's a big change on October the first and then things would have settled down and gradually and and the CE, frankly, would have thought oh perhaps we didn't get that bit completely right.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_04: It's always that there are some other changes that are currently being prepared so he'll probably have a little nod towards those as well.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that'll be a really good webinar to look at.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_04: So don't don't miss that one.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: And you don't get a better source than from uh it is the source in the in the CIA for that stuff isn't he said I think he's actually leading he was leading that project so if he doesn't know nobody knows.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody knows indeed.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: We got any events coming up well not really it's that time of year when there's not much going on.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: There's a there's a lot going on clearly we've clearly there's a Singapore air show coming up soon at beginning of February if you feel like going to Changy well you might do.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah other otherwise keep an eye yeah otherwise keep an eye on fly.co.uk forward slash events absolutely and if you've got an event coming up if you're in airfield with an event please tell us because we can help you promote that.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely just now one last time we spoke you were about to pop off to Compton weren't you?
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes we were I did we were and I we did we went down there the next day uh just a storm Goretti was you know coming in it was a very uh Did you survive?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: We did survive got back just as I got back home it started to snow heavily so that was uh kept well timed.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway we've we've shot a little video and um we're in the final process of editing that waiting for a couple of shots to come in uh and uh yeah the app should be ready fairly soon.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_04: Excellent it's really good.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_04: So keep your keep your eyes peeled for that that'll be there'll be a story on the website about that and something on the forum no doubt.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_04: Brilliant.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_04: The future of Compton.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_04: Future of Compton so from from a week that started with not very much we ended up with tons and tons of news um as you notice there's a few of the regular elements that haven't been appeared last week or this week we are in the middle of the changing there will be some stuff we're just kind of catching up everything is like super busy here at the moment.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_04: We had three new people start yesterday or day before actually the year is it's been a big start.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_04: It's been a big start yeah it's like what's going on a flyer so um I started the year with a full head of hair but no sadly not but yeah super busy we'll be we'll be back to a different kind of service before too long.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah an evolving situation yeah so uh if you're not grounded fly safe if you are grounded hopefully we'll get that sorted well not we'll it will be sorted pretty soon um and have a good one we'll see you next week thank you very much join the Flyer Club and be part of the UK's biggest GA community save hundreds of pounds with free landing vouchers watch expert led webinars and access all the online content on flyer.co.uk all lists and more from just six pounds per month or 62 pounds for the full year.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: Join today at flyer.co.uk forward slash membership