Latest / Elevate The Hustle / Ep 32: The Insurance Agency Owner Who Turned His Biggest Pain Point Into a Business | Justin Goodman

Transcript

Ep 32: The Insurance Agency Owner Who Turned His Biggest Pain Point Into a Business | Justin Goodman · Elevate The Hustle

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: I truly believe that you can't say you know something until you can teach it.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Elevate the hustle.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Elevate the Hustle, where we break down what it actually means to build teams, scale companies, and lead with intensity.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Stan Mayton.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Don Picharillo, and today's guest turned one of their business's biggest pain points into a completely new business that now works with over 1,400 insurance agencies across the country.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Justin.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Happy to be here.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Justin, let's start off the show.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: I asked the same question to every guest that comes on.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: What does the word hustle mean to you?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Hustle means a continuous sprint towards an end, if you will.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Does it ever end?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Does it ever end?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: It can if you do it right, and then you just go on to the next idea.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it never ends.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's no end.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Trick question.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I like the answer.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: So at what point did you realize that you know hustle was part of your DNA?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Was it as a as a kid?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Was it old you know, older in life?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: At what point were you like, I'm a little bit of a hustler?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I could go build a business.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: I got what it takes.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was more grind than hustle.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm somebody who, back when I played football, loved football practice.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Back when I was uh golfer in in school, I loved just working on the range for hours and working on you know things to the nth degree to hit the, you know, as close your kid to perfection and eliminating variables.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it was more for me the grind, but I guess if you love the grind enough and you do it consistently, then it becomes, I guess, the hustle or something along those lines.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So what what tell us about the golf, tell us about the football.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: What position did you play?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: And what was the what was the most success you had playing golf when you were younger?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's let's put it this way.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: On the football field, I was I I love practice, and that's where I saw most of my action.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: I was a smaller kid, so um I ended my football career um after getting run over, but by Deshaun Foster, if you remember him, he went on to have a career in the NFL.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I tried to tackle him being a five-foot, 100-pound kid, that was pretty foolish.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh tore an AC, separated a different shoulder, dislocated all my elbow and a concussion on one play.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I said, that's enough of that.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna pivot to golf.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so that I did, you know, full-time golf throughout high school.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, so it was just a uh, you know, fun passion to compete.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh love competing.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that's that's really where I learned, like, oh yeah, if I if I put my mind to something, uh it won't take long for me to get competency, and then from competency to excel in something.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: So that ultimately would translate to going forward in college and then you know, eventually finding my way to the insurance space.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: But really, it was more I found a girl I wanted to marry, and I needed to make sure I could provide for a lifestyle.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: So that was an incentive enough to go and deliver.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: What um so where where did you go to school?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: What'd you study?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And like what were you doing in college, and then how'd you find your way into insurance?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I went to college at USC, not South Carolina, University of Southern California, the correct one, the right one.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh I was in the business entrepreneurship program, and I was in a fraternity, loving life there.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I was pretty much a knucklehead as I was going through and getting my degree.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what ultimately brought me to insurance, funny enough, was uh my father and grandfather were both in the business.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: My father, when I was going off to college, asked me, Do you ever want to go in insurance?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Hell no, you always complain about how much work is on your plate every single day.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so, no, I'm gonna go do something completely different.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: So he sold his company to Arthur J.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Gallagher.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: So then I go off to college and um I'm selling shipping supplies over the summer and realizing that recurring commissions sound wonderful.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: I go beg for a job.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, upon my junior year, I go back um into the system and get a job there.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: Gallagher was very big on the family members coming in.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I went to work.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think every Gallagher works at Gallagher, so that makes sense.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and Patrick Gallagher and I interned together.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh that's right.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: So we started so we started our careers together um way back 26 years ago, and we were both speaking at an event um in Florida, I don't know, about a month ago, and it was fun to reconnect after all those years.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you both had pretty successful careers, it seems.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's funny that you guys interned together.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you missed the Lendell White and Reggie Bush and uh Matt Leinert years at USC though.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I we all enjoyed everything that encompassed USC football during those days.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: And and it was so much, see, I'm a California native, and so I grew up watching the Rams play.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: So when the Rams moved off to St.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: Louis, I was without a team.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: So eventually, when SC eventually said, We're letting you go, Pete, because we didn't like how Reggie got paid, he went to Seattle and then I adopted them as my football team.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it is why I have to explain to people now why my boys are rabbit Seahawks fans and not Los Angeles Rams fans.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not that bad though.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, we're Jet fans.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So there's another Jet coach that got away.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: So Justin, bring us back.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: You start you start interning a Gallagher.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh how did how did it go from there?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: At what point we were like, I'm gonna start you know, total CSR.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: So interned at Gallagher, worked there for five years.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: Ultimately, um for me, um what the type of business I was doing, smaller artisan contractors wasn't a fit for their typical model.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I decided, hey, I want to go a different direction.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I left, I started my own firm, um, ended up um bringing in my brother.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then after about eight to 10 years of doing that and continuously running into the problem of training our team members only to have the big houses come and per, you know, go and swipe in and say, Oh, you trained them so well.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Guess what?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Here's a 25% increase in salary, come work for us.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: We said, you know, that model's not working too hot for us.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: We bring in new to industry hires, we do it very well.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: I train people just like my father trained me.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: I want them trained so they could actually take over the business.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so he said, Well, how do we do this faster, better, uh less expensively?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so my brother and I got together.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Here's everything I've built.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Can we put it online?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: And my brother's the realist in our organization.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: He says, Justin, we can't do this by ourselves.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: We need somebody smarter than us to help put all the pieces together, which is where our business partner, Trent, came in because he understood lots of different things and he was the true definition of a hustler.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: He was somebody who he would like, he'd be interested in like learning to dance, and so he would pick up like, you know, all the funny dance moves, or he'd learn interest in programming, and so he'd learn that stuff.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: So we had somebody like that that was young, and because he's about a decade younger than us and just impressionable enough to go, yeah, let's go and do this.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how we started it was first for our own needs with our customers, and then uh really quickly, as soon as we started bringing this up to friends in the industry, adoption became pretty rapid and we were off to the races.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Before we get into the growth of CSR and what you've been able to accomplish, did you, you know, kind of at that, you were running your own agency for five years.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Were you kind of like, you know, this is good, but there's a better way?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Or were you like, like you didn't really know that there was gonna be another business that came out of it, or you were always like, I want to go really, really big and this is stopping me?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I was gonna be scaling our agency to be a massive regional player.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um the reality was we survived the downturn of 08, and then we're growing, and then it just so happened that in the midst of all of this, the idea hit, and really we had some industry partners that kind of just said, Hey, we'll we'll market to our customers on your behalf, and it just accelerated the process.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: It was never something that I thought was going to be anything other than a side business, and then we just it scaled so fast that um one of our customers, assured partners at the time said, Well, why are you doing both?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know you just want to be on the learning side and building this.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: We'll cut you a very sizable check at this type of multiple, and you'll just be a number to us.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: You can run it how you want, etc.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the deal was pretty awesome.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: We couldn't turn it down.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: So then they acquired that side of the business from us, and they were true to their word the entire time.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: Let us continue operating both entities independently, and yeah, that's kind of how we got off and running.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: So you guys are, you know, obviously you have early success.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: You have partners that are like, I want this product, and you guys are still trying to run both businesses.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: At what point you're like, holy shit, we have we have something real here.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: This is where all the energy should be focused.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: The light bulb went on pretty quickly because within the first, we did our first, I don't know, 400,000 in sales in the first couple months of launching.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: And and we're like, oh, there is a need here.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: The response, I mean, our our demo book to close ratio was through the roof.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was 60, 70 percent.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so we knew at that point either our price was too low or the product was the right fit or maybe a mix of both.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then it really just became a matter of me having to accept the fact that I can't do both things exceedingly well at the same time.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's guys like Elon who can have multiple businesses or entrepreneurs that can just continue to work all hours of the night, but for me, it was a diminishing return.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was really once AP approached us, acquired us, and then that clock started ticking.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: How do I get myself out of one business so that I can focus full-time on the other?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: What I mean, for those, and I'm I'm sure a lot of people that are that are watching or listening at home do know what CSR, but but give us a breakdown of exactly what it is.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Give us your elevator pitch of what makes you guys different and what makes you guys stand out.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so Total CSR, for those who are unaware, is really an online trade school for insurance.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's the best way I can put it.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: In our industry, you've had the Risk and Education Alliance, which does a great job, the institutes that do a great job, but they've only taught coverage.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: No one taught how to transactionally do the job.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: And this is problematic because 80% of what somebody that's got seven years or less in the business is doing is transactional in nature.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: So we built a paint by numbers approach training with practicing in a real sandbox so they could learn the job skills rapidly.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: And what we do is we truncate that typical time frame of starting in the industry to being able to run a desk from someone who's like taking six to 18 months to do it, and we do it in 30 days or less.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: So that's really where Total CSR started.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: We have other tools we've now bolted on because we had agencies say, well, it works great when we hire the right person, but we don't hire the right person often.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: So we said, well, we'll build out a battery of assessments and give you the right people to have.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then it was this is great, but I still get a lot of questions from the newbies, and I just don't have the time for it.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so we build out our AI agent who answers complex questions for them.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then it became, oh my gosh, it's such a pain point to manage license renewals.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: And they said, Would you build that up for us?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: We said, sure.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we've continued to add to that stack.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then more recently, um, I my last book was really on the science of learning.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the weak points of all of us in education is that when we learn something today, we forget 90% of it within 30 days.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: And the only way to prevent that is spaced repetition.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: And nobody in our industries and a lot of other industries had ever put an emphasis on spaced repetition, which is I learned something today, I'm gonna get droplets of it over three, five, seven, nine, ten days, that constant feedback of here's information, we're quizzing you on it, making sure it moves from short-term memory to long-term memory.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: So we built a product that instead of something where you learn something in any insurance program in our industry, you'll forget 90% of it in 30 days.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: With ours and our retain product, you will for sure, as long as you hit play and do the lessons every day, retain at least 90% of it.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: So we've kind of flipped that.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: And is it like gamified?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is it something like you know, some of those apps where you're like, I don't know, mind puzzles or mind brain.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm learning how to play chess on Duolingo.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is it is this something similar to that?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's gamified, and we actually even give away prizes for our customers.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: So we're giving away all sorts of Apple gear seems to be the favorite these days, and it's based on participation and not outcomes.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: What happens when you reward based on participation is the outcomes improve, and you don't have the people trying to game the system as much.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so we found that incredibly uh helpful.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so the agencies we've worked with, so it's gamified that way.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, they can play some of the little games we have in the system as well.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm less a fan of those.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm more a fan of let's get the five to ten minutes of work in a day and move on to the next thing.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: But there are a number of people who do appreciate the games within the game or within the gamified learning.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the biggest draw seems to be, oh, I'm gonna get these pretty cool prizes as long as I do what I'm required to do anyway.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you talked about that, you know, the insurance industry doesn't just have a hiring problem, right?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we have a lot of people that come onto this podcast and they talk about the industry overall, right?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's aging out, uh, it's a little antiquated of how they adapt things.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: How are you guys?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously you have new products that you're rolling out.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: How are you guys looking at this?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, not not only from a micro approach, but also from a macro approach and saying, hey, this is what we're looking to accomplish in the next three, five, ten years.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so uh obviously in the age of AI, lots training, lots of training needs are changing.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's a couple different answers I'm gonna give you.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Answer one is tied to you've got companies out there like uh Fulcrum, who is doing some really cool things on proposal generation, policy checking, and some other things that are taking workload off of account managers, CSR's desks.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you've got others working on submissions.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: And if we take away some of the transactional work, well, one of two things happens.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Either those people lose their jobs, or we find higher and better uses of those people.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: Where a lot of agencies are moving, the successful ones are saying we are gonna go and have these people engage more with the customer base and problem solve and really be insurance professionals, how they were supposed to be in the beginning.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: The challenge that we find now is that this younger generation, uh, due to COVID, due to uh social media, cell phone use, all of that, does not have the executive functioning skills that the previous generation has.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm speaking broadly, but the data bears this out.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so where we see ourselves pivoting some is in a couple different areas.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: One, leadership development.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, my next book is due to release in the next couple weeks, and it's all on the operation side of running an agency.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: And the whole purpose of it is to give a roadmap with paint by numbers for the everyday person who doesn't yet have a title to how they can take on leadership, and then ultimately, if you're leading enough within an agency, you're gonna earn a title behind it.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that's part of it, and then we'll build out our leadership development program.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: But the other part is live training with role play practice.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: So right now we are actually testing with different cohorts.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doing one right now on difficult conversations, teaching people how to have those difficult conversations with insured, with coworkers, uh, with managers, with direct reports, and then how they can role play this.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so we actually have real live role-playing that's one-to-one that's going on.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: So the distribution, how we are going to be doing training going forward is gonna shift as well.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's where I see a lot of the need is yeah, people are gonna have to be AI proficient, but they are gonna have to really be people proficient.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where I think there's still a gap that's ever widening as the seniority leaves the business and the younger kids come in.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you're you're also gonna have people that are now gonna be only able to communicate in the AI language, right?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: They're not they're they're they're gonna be like, all right, well, you know, what is Claude gonna say, what is chat gonna say, and now there's no differentiated of like what is the real outcome, what is the real problem, how do we solve it?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Which on some of it is great, right?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's gonna help people problem solve.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I've seen some stuff where, you know, like peep people are starting to believe what chat says, and now they think they're like the greatest salesperson in the world, right?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like you should be asking for more money.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: You should, you know, you're you're you should be out there doing whatever you should be doing, but they're not actually qualified to do some of those things.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and and to your point you just made, uh recent studies, and there's now a couple of them, AI is making us dumber.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's it's uh well-proven fact it's making us dumber.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the more agencies leverage AI, which I encourage them to do, they're gonna make their people dumber.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so how do you combat that, right?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because you've got people who, to your point, will be like, well, if AI answers everything, well, they're not training their muscle.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: When we don't train our muscle, that is our brain, it dies, it atrophies.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so we have to be very proactive there.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, we will just respond to what the model says.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what happens when the model is wrong?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll give you a quick example, and I promise I won't make this long.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: There's a study they did with ChatGPT, and uh what they did, this this medical group uh said, we want to see uh where they're getting their information from.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: And they created a fake illness, and they got a medical journal to publish that fake illness online.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: That fake illness gets published online, and then six months later they had individuals type into ChatGPT symptoms that this fake illness would say, Hey, you've got this illness.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Sure enough, these people got diagnosed with a fake illness from a study.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: So the ChatGPT, I'm assuming.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: How many insurance websites do you know that haven't been updated, where somebody has just put up insurance stuff or made up their own answers to things that's incorrect?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: When we stop thinking and we accept that Chat GPT or Claude or Grok are the Bible, we're gonna be in real trouble because the testing bears out, they don't do as well with nuance when it comes to insurance.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you you also are kind of, you know, if you're looking at it from a different perspective, insurance has been done, I want to say, one way, right, for the last 50 plus years, right?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we're kind of looking at it, right?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: We you know, we obviously have have a business, you guys have a business that's saying, well, the the the way of doing it is not really working, right?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Or there's there's a different way of doing it.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And now chat and Claude are telling you something completely different, right?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: You you don't really even know what what you don't even know what's what what's right or wrong, right?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're kind of just going about it, you know, from a completely different perspective.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: There's that, and and even when you do have a trained model, the The if-then statements and the language and how how contracts are written, all of that plays into so much.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so, from a learning perspective, we just we want to teach discernment amongst people.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's something we don't talk about enough in our industry.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's there's enough things from the from the initial worry I had with AI, like, oh, well, I don't know if I'm gonna have a company at the end of the day.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh my gosh, I'll have a company.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna look a little different in three to five years.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's probably a good thing, and there's a whole lot of opportunity if we do it right.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you see yourself going in the next three to five years?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: So in my um book, there's a whole methodology for how I believe learning should go, and that's where I think it'll end up being.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: I truly believe that you can't say you know something until you can teach it.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: And as such, you'll see our curriculum over the next 24 to 36 months really go to the place where not only are they having micro learning, but it becomes interactive to where you can't show competency until you can explain it to our AI, and our AI grades it and says, Yes, you get this concept, you explained it well.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: I see our training also going into areas where I'm going to go and present a proposal to an insured.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: I upload the proposal into Total CSR, I tell the AI agent, this is the persona, the person I'm presenting to, go pull the background data on them.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I'll give an example.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: A plumber in Los Angeles, California, versus a plumber in South Dakota are gonna operate differently.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: The pain points are gonna be different, even how they do business is different.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: So what I want to be able to do is say, I'm gonna recreate opportunities for you to role play, get the coverage right, but also match the cadence and the care needed to respond to individual personality types.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I see it very customized, and I also see learner journeys being customized.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: For example, I'm trying to teach coverage knowledge to somebody.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: I give an assessment.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone scores different on those assessments.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's good.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, I want to custom build as we go coursework that speaks to the individual and doesn't force them to go back on things they've already learned.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: So much of learning right now, and it's whether it's my historical programs or any of our competitors, you still have to take the entire course, even if you've already known it.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if you've passed out of it, we shouldn't be wasting your time doing that.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: What we should be doing is focus on the highest and best use of your learning.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the direction I see us along with a lot of the live training.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: How much time or resources and the are you guys putting back into training, right?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: To continue to reinvent that training.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: A lot.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: We are all in.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, fortunately, uh we've got agentic uh program development taking place right now.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: And by that, I'm talking about some of the architecture of our system that you know our engineering team, I thought was gonna have to be tenfold what it needs to be.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so agentic program development that way, we're heavily invested in so that we can scale appropriately.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: From a resource perspective, we are reinvesting heavily because I feel like I'm either gonna nail it or I'm gonna miss big time.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: I just don't want to be in the position where I sit still and wait for somebody else to do what I was afraid to invest and make happen.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: How did you get into writing books?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Was it always a passion, or or it's something that you developed over the years?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna give you a very long-winded but short version story.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Long-winded version, but in a short time frame.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: I uh was part of an experimental group growing up where they decided to teach whole language, where they taught you creative spelling, all this stuff, and never taught you grammar.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: As such, when I went into high school, I didn't know grammar.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had a teacher who basically told me, I'm failing you on every essay you write just based on the grammar.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: You have to rewrite it for a C minus, and then you can move forward.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um through that and my love of movies, I'm like, oh, I think I want to be in the film business someday.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I was at USC and I said, Oh, let's let's do this.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I had uh fraternity brothers who were in the the film industry, and I um I was lucky enough to executive produce a film with um, I'm not familiar sure if you're familiar with America Ferrero.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: She's now most known for the most recent Barbie movie she won an Oscar for.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I got to produce that film and then realized that I'm not meant for this industry, but I love the creative process.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: So as I was doing both business with the insurance side and then also working on the marketing side, I love writing.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: So then I would write more and write more, and ultimately I wrote a screenplay, brought it to my friends in the film industry, and they said this would be the worst after-school special ever.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Go back to what you should be doing, which is business.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, took that love of writing and said, I need to be able to build resources that show credibility within this space.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, over the years, I've written now four books, and the desired outcome for me was really kind of selfish was I'm at a trade show event.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: If I've got something that's thick and that has good knowledge in it, someone's gonna feel really terrible throwing it away.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how it started, and then it ended up being fun, and then all of a sudden, those resources became valuable after enough people read them, and so that's kind of where it all stemmed from me and creative spelling back in elementary school.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see yourself ever writing a screenplay that actually gets picked up?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: No, my uh my fraternity brothers have have told me they're like, look, your ideas aren't that good.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's they're good for insurance.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're good for insurance.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'll give you a question.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're the best insurance screenplay writer.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: I I go and I speak at all these conferences, and I get a lot of positive feedback.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: I once had a friend review one of my talks because I'm like, hey, I'm getting a lot of great feedback.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: And he happens to do a lot of speaking engagement.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, Do you want the honest input?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Yeah.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, Meh.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: He says, like, it's okay.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: And and what the reality was, the bar was so low at a lot of these events for good speakers that I just seemed better and I got more applause than if I was in any other industry.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so that that's kind of where it landed.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I'm good enough for insurance, not good enough for a real film script or speaking to non-insurance audiences where the bar is going to be a lot higher.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you're not you're not getting like you know a better rate than Gary Vee or Tony Robbins for your speaking engagements?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: Although one time, um, funny story, I didn't want to do the speaking engagement.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: I just had too much on my plate, and I threw out a number.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it was throughout like$7,500 to talk because I had no frame of reference.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: I've never charged for anything speaking wise.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: And they came back and they're like, can you do$6,500?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I guess.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: So that was that was the one and only time.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, outside of that, it's always been free.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: But yes, the fee is much lower to non-existent um because again, they're getting middling to okay presentations from an insurance guy.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: So let's take it back to you know Justin in high school and college, and obviously you have a really successful business.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: You guys have grown like crazy.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and you took an idea and brought it to reality, which a lot of people can't can't say, right?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people are, you know, they buy a business, they take over a business, they run a business, but they're not kind of coming up with a concept and actually building it.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: So kudos to you for building it.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: What what's the most important lesson you learned over the years if you had to go talk to your high school self?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: What would you tell yourself?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone's faking it.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like I like every every expert out there, I mean, the number of insurance professionals out there that are on the speaking stage at different times, and I I'm wondering why they're speaking when their book size pales in comparison to some of the people in the audience, right, who've really done and accomplished certain things.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I go, no, they took the chance and they went out and spoke, and so they're the expert.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: I I, when I wanted to launch Total CSR, I went to several educational professionals and um and they spoke to the fact that I was an idiot and didn't know what I thought.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I knew enough to be an expert in the field, but not enough to teach in the field.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: And what I learned, because it was really discouraging for me in the moment, um, then I talked to a guy, Steve Anderson, who's been in our industry for years, and he was the one encouraged, like, no, no, go for this.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: You don't know until you do it, right?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so what happened was I stepped forward, I took the risk, I became the expert only after I took the step to do it.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think so many of us don't take that step.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: So the lesson I learned was like, whatever it is, I'm just gonna go and, you know, to the best of my abilities, execute as the expert in it because everyone else who's ever done anything great has been in the same spot.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: No one recognized him as the expert until after the fact.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: What was the biggest challenge you faced early on when building this?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think the biggest challenge was I'm somebody who loves the detail, and I had to separate the sales process from my desire to educate people.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because in the beginning I was demoing the product, and I just so wanted to educate people and tell them how everything was built.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I had to realize they don't care.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: They wanted the solution, they wanted the solution, they wanted to know how it could go wrong, but they didn't want to know all the details.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I just have a fascination with it.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like uh recently, my brother and I were testing out doing some demos, um, and he is a much better salesman than I.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: And yet I would lecture him.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, you're not doing this, this, and this right.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yet his numbers when he does those demos are a much higher close rate, and he talks a whole lot less and goes into far less detail.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: So that was my biggest thing was learning to shut up and actually work a real sales process versus wanting to teach um in a demo session.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that's also like just evidence of entrepreneurship, right?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: When you're just starting out or you're building a business, you're like, I know everything, right?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, I could do a sales demo better than that person, and then you hire somebody that's better than you, and you're like, holy shit, I'm so bad at this, right?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're like, I need to hire a person that's better at me than this, and then you realize you got to really only focus on what you're really great at.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when you start to maximize and really start to get results.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's trials and tribulations of you know, starting a business, running a business, growing a company, whatever it might be.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's you know, from my my conversations with insurance agency owners, that's the struggle they face on a daily day basis, right?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're still stuck doing stuff that they should not be doing, right?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're you know, and that might be even selling, right?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or that might even be doing service work or whatever it is, they're not focused on running the business, right?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Growing the business.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: They're still focused in certain minutiae.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're like, well, why didn't I, you know, at this revenue goal, or why didn't, you know, why did my competitor get bought out, or whatever the case may be.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you bring up a great point.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think my team would like agree with what I'm about to say.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the biggest limiter in our business because I'm a control freak and I want to make sure everything's running, but that creates log jams for everybody.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I had to develop and I'm working on developing that discipline of like, Justin, you have to let go of this.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: 85% graded on something that actually gets done is better than 100% correct, but it never gets across the finish line.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's been something over the years, it's been a real struggle for me as well.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a struggle for most entrepreneurs, right?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, especially early on, it's like, well, what if they don't do it right?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: What if I lose my customers?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: What if this, that, or the other thing?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, it's it your time is finite, right?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't do everything all the time.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, if you're the bottleneck and you need to approve everything, at a certain point, there's gonna be a lot of things that you don't get to that can't get approved, and now you're just you are the constraint.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: So and then throw throw and hustle, right?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like whoever is gonna go faster it is I don't want to say they're always gonna win, right?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: But like if a client calls and you know they're they're they're shopping for an insurance policy, whoever's gonna call them back first is probably gonna have a better chance to win that business than you know the person who calls them back tomorrow, right?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I think going fast and and learning, right?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Failing as you go is also another another good thing to think about when you're building a business.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to us about Project 55.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so um along with my knucklehead ways uh in college, um, I was uh struggling with mental health issues, um, which ultimately led to a failed suicide attempt.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um I had become I the reason I ended up leaving golf was of a degenerative spinal disorder.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: Back in the day, we didn't have the parameters in place to protect against over dependency, over-prescribing.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was, you know, 15 to 20 of those daily, finally decided this is gonna be enough, lined up the pills, and was about 30 into them when some fraternity brothers stumbled in, and um, they later staged an intervention, um, for which uh the only reason they knew how to stage an intervention because one brother had some brief training because his own brother had some substance abuse issues.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: And as we fast forward two years later, I get my mental health in order, I work on myself, I get these things, and I get asked to speak on mental health at conferences.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Bunch of people came to me after every time I spoke, and I had two groups, those that are really struggling in one direction, and then there are those who said, I can't identify with this mental health struggle thing, but I want to help and I'm afraid to say something, and I just don't want to say the wrong thing.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I went to a few buddies of mine, uh, one of which Brandon Kors in the insurance space as well, and uh said, I want to do this and I want to build the industry's first uh training that teaches how to step in when someone's struggling.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: So what we did was we launched Project 55 of 501c3 nonprofit, and our whole focus is building tactical real-world real training that teaches the everyday person how to step in when others are struggling, and it covers about 14 different life events, and we make it paint by number simple with scripts, with scenarios, so people can feel comfortable enough to lean in uh during those crisis moments when others are struggling.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Very cool, man.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's amazing.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, congrats.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's get into my favorite part of this show where we get to know Justin on a personal level.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Rapid fire.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Rapid fire.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna ask you some quick questions.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: You go with some quick answers to come to mind.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'll start us off.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh early bird or night owl?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Early.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Who's your favorite USC football player of all time?
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna ask that.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go with Carson Palmer.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I read a very interesting article about Carson Palmer today.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: He uh he he started his son uh and uh on the high school football team over like a four-star recruit, which I thought was kind of funny.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: And he's winning.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: So Carson and I went to school together, and the school in question that he's you're talking about now, Santa Margarita High School, uh, is right around the corner from us.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh yeah, he, you know, as winning the state title that Carson got for Santa Margarita last year and now being ranked number one in the state, I'm giving him a pass on putting his son at number QB one.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you got the inside intel right there because I was reading the article and I was like, what an asshole, man.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: Four kids.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: You think of it this you're the offspring of Carson Palmer and Jordan Palmer, right?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and your uncle's Jordan Palmer, the greatest quarterback coach that's exists right now that turns them into NFL quarterbacks.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna have a leg up on any competition.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, here's the though.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Don't don't believe everything you read.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um what's uh what's your favorite meal, man?
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: My favorite meal is really just a New York strip with some broccoli and some scalloped potatoes.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: Pretty simple.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: Just a meat and potatoes guy.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, yep.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: You still play golf?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: I do actually.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I've worked for years rehabbing the the spine.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: I was just in, if you guys are golfer, Bannon Dunes.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was there last year.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: So had a blast, went with a bunch of uh business buddies of mine, and yeah, we had perfect weather, enjoyed it, and loved having the caddies because otherwise I'd be in trouble out there.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: So it was great.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: What's your favorite golf course you've ever played?
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: I got an opportunity four years ago to play Cypress Point.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, I haven't been there yet.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you know, you can only there's there's like the set number of members, the small group.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: You can't ever pay when you go out.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I got invited to go along, and I walk into the clubhouse, Roger Goodell's walking out, and I don't know what to do.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: If you knew me outside of this, I'm a socially anxious introvert, and so I don't know what to do with my hands, my body.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, it's Roger Goodell.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm walking in the clubhouse, and the only thing I can think to say is, hey, Raj, and I stick out my hand.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: And he shakes so he shakes my hand, he brings me in for a hug because he assumes I know him well, and he's with some other high-powered people and doesn't want to look like a fool like he forgot my name.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, So good to see you, and turn into this little thing.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: And uh was one of those things where I'm like, got my moment.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's a great story.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: I have a buddy of mine, and Dom knows him, who uh who's a sales guy.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: He actually lives up in LA, and that's his move because you see celebrities and like high-powered people all over all over LA, and he just comes up to him and he's like, Hey man, what's up?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's Josh.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, they're like, Hey, what's up?
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, We gotta get lunch, and they're like, Who the fuck is this?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: But it has worked for him to get to get business over the years because he exchanges numbers with these people.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't have the courage to pull that off.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was just it was my one and done accident that I got to have that moment.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh great story.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Last question: What is on your bucket list?
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: One item on your bucket list that you have not done yet.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna say being a grandpa.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: I uh like so.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: My youngest is in uh junior in high school, and my favorite thing, you know, insurance afforded me the ability to coach all my kids' teams all throughout growing up.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: And what I look forward to most is gonna be being like the assistant coach on one of my kid grandkids' teams and just shagging balls and going back to those T-ball moments.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's at the top of my list.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Justin, where can people find you?
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: Where can people find CSR if they're interested in learning more about the software or reading one of your books?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: How can they get in touch?
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so totalcsr.com is where you you can find us.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: You can also find me on LinkedIn.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm posting there regularly.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: The books, they're on Amazon.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not making a ton of money on them.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, if you buy one, I might make 50 cents.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: It'll be life-changing money.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um but other than that, yeah, we're on social media wherever we can be.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, yeah, happy to take all questions and uh demos.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, congratulations to you for building a great company.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: We we we obviously see you guys at you know all the big conferences and have a lot of respect for what you have built.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: So kudos to you.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: We appreciate you having having you on on our show.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, we hope everybody enjoyed the show, and we'll see you guys again next week.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, everybody.