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"Cotton, Community, and Change: Leading Through Drought with Kelli Inge" · Conservation Stories

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign.
• 0:07
  Speaker B: This is your host, Hilary Timmons Sims for the podcast Conservation Stories. I am so glad that you are here to listen to us talk about all things rural West Texas and eastern New Mexico and all the places that we know and love. The Conservation Stories podcast is brought to you by the Sand Hill Area Research association and you can find us at sarah-conservation.com I am excited as always. I'm always excited about every guest that I have had. So many people recommend this guest to us and I'm so grateful that Kelly Inge of Wall Co Op Gin is joining us today. Kelly, thank you so much for being here. Of course, you're very, very kind to give us your time. Can you give us a little bit background? Because I, I, you and I have never met and but I've just had so many people say, this person is fabulous. You must talk to her.
• 1:07
  Speaker A: Well, I appreciate that's kind of a hard intro to follow, I guess. Well, you know, my, my foray into the agriculture specter did definitely come as a surprise. I am from the Central Texas area. I was raised in Killeen, Texas. I was born on a military base in Colorado and then quickly ended up back in Killeen where I lived there until I gradu High school, got a full scholarship to Angelo State University when I turned 18, gosh, 24 years ago. And I came out this direction and surprisingly my, my scholarship was for vocal performance and opera. So this is definitely, this is definitely not the area that I saw my life. But one of the great things about that when you move from home and you discover yourself, you, you can experience new things. And you know, I want to try this class and I want to take an economics class and I want to do, I want to do finance, I want to do communications and public relations. And I got involved with an organization on campus and I enjoyed meeting people and talking to people. And I quickly realized as much as I loved that part of my life, it's not something I wanted to do for the rest of my life because when you have a major in vocal performance, your options are either performing or teaching. I didn't want to do either for the rest of my life. Life. And so, you know, things just kind of turned and changed. And I've been at Wall Co Op this past February was 12 years. So I'm working on my 13th year. And I will say that having the background that I have and having been trained in that area since I was 12 has definitely allowed me to be comfortable with being uncomfortable, if that makes sense. And you can't be afraid to talk to people. You can't be afraid to put yourself out. And I know people struggle with that. It's given me life skills that have taken me to where I am and I meet people and it's just an amazing experience. And I am forever fortunate and thankful that I had the opportunity to come here for that reason. And you know, you're performing on a stage when you, when that's your major, that's what you do. And you have the ability to just turn off the nerves and block everything out. So it's definitely been beneficial of what I'm doing now.
• 3:36
  Speaker B: I. So my. I. My dad was a music director, Baptist church music director. And so from the time I was like, could talk, I was singing at church. And I. I have like, no fear of public speaking because it's a heck of a lot less nerve wracking to me than singing absolutely much any day. Like, it is. It's almost like when I get up, it's like I remember the first, the first time I did like a public speaking thing and I was like, oh my gosh, this is so easy.
• 4:11
  Speaker A: Comparatively to singing. Absolutely. Because yes.
• 4:15
  Speaker B: Compared to singing.
• 4:17
  Speaker A: Compared. And you know, you do it anyway. And I've had a lot of people, you know, I've only been. I've only been the manager of Wall Co Op since June of 2024. And so I'm still relatively new in this who area as far as the management side of it. But I've had people, you're just not afraid of anything. And I correct them. I'm like, I. I am afraid, but I do it anyway.
• 4:39
  Speaker B: That's right.
• 4:41
  Speaker A: So that's, that's the difference.
• 4:43
  Speaker B: Yes. Yes. This is because we were raised on Roger and Hammerstein's the King and I.
• 4:50
  Speaker A: Yes. And we now will tell you that.
• 4:53
  Speaker B: We'Re supposed to be singing a happy song and whistling.
• 4:56
  Speaker A: Well, my, you know, you were raised on that. I was raised on Baptist hymns and also the Carpenters. I was raised on the Carpenters.
• 5:04
  Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. So I remember we didn't have a lot of secular music growing up in my house, but my grandparents had a Debbie Boone record and a Dolly Parton record. And I. I mean, to this day, like, I would fangirl out all day over Dolly Parton all day long.
• 5:25
  Speaker A: She is a legend and an icon.
• 5:27
  Speaker B: She's amazing.
• 5:28
  Speaker A: She is. She is.
• 5:29
  Speaker B: Okay, so now this is really interesting because I am super curious how you went from being an opera singer to being the manager of a cotton cooperative.
• 5:43
  Speaker A: Well, yes, it's it's. It's definitely an interesting story. You know, in college, you meet people and then, you know, you quickly get married. And I had a. I got married when I was 25. I had my son when I was 26, and I knew that I didn't want to go the music route. And so, okay, I have to support my family. I've got a job to do. So I dived headfirst into the business side of insurance, and I did that for many years until I was approached by Wall Co Op back in February of 2013. Hey, you know, you're. You're personable. We are looking for someone. And I was very much wanting to start in a field that learning is power. I always say if you either you're only doing one thing, you're. You're growing, or you're not growing, and when you stop learning, you stop growing. Well, what's the opposite of growing? The opposite of growing is dying. So I started at Wall Co Op and I just fell in love with the atmosphere and the, the sense of community and togetherness, and I stayed. And, you know, it's the only thing my son's ever known. He's 16 when he was 4, so it's the only thing he's ever known me to do. And I absolutely love it. And, you know, Wall Co Op has gone through some challenges, and, you know, you just rise to the occasion. And again, you're not scared of anything. I am. But you do it anyway.
• 7:13
  Speaker B: Right, so. Right well. So really, you see, you're living in this community, and people, people identified. They saw your value. You were out there, putting yourself out there so that the people that had the sense to find people of value could find you.
• 7:28
  Speaker A: And that is wonderful to hear. And, you know, I truly believe that God puts us in positions. And even if I didn't know what my future held 12 and a half years ago, he did. And there's a time and a place for everything. There's a season, and eventually Walco was going to go into a season that needed me, and I'm so thankful that I was here for that. Wow.
• 7:49
  Speaker B: What an amazing story. So you're in Tom Green county, which is not on. Really on the west side of Texas, but it's really close.
• 7:57
  Speaker A: It is. It's a good location.
• 7:59
  Speaker B: Yes, it is. So how many acres of cotton do you guys have down there?
• 8:03
  Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. When you compare all three gins, there's. There's three gins down here within a. Actually, there's four, but there's three that are within a 20 mile radius. And I think the southern rolling plains, which is this area in 2021. Over 300,000 bales of cotton in our big year in 2021. And that's such a drastic change from where we were last year when I think we struggled to reach 40 because of the drought. It's just been so bad. But we have the ability to produce a lot of cotton down here. I mean, I can't give you an exact amount of acres. I apologize, my knowledge does not extend that far. But the ability or the ability to produce the cotton that we have is pretty vast. And like I said, In 21, over 300,000 acres. So the gins are important in this region, all three of them. There's two co ops and an independent. And we're all neighbors, we're all competitors. You know, competition keeps people honest. But at the end of the day, we all want each other to succeed. And I'd like to think we're all friends so well.
• 9:11
  Speaker B: And it's true that, that, you know, rising tides raise all, all boats. And especially when you're, you know, looking at a very specific commodity, you know, you all kind of have to come together. And it's actually kind of that way in agriculture now. I mean, everybody needs to be working together.
• 9:26
  Speaker A: Absolutely. Things are changing so drastically, quickly, and you're in this very unique field where not many people are in, which is a challenge on its own. So you develop these relationships in this community with people that are like you. And that's across the state of Texas. I don't know how many events I've gone to and I just put myself out there. Hi, I'm Kelly at Wall. Hi, I'm Kelly at Wall. I feel like that a broken record sometimes, but it is so important for people to know you and for you to know them because we need each other. And I truly feel like I'm the manager of Wall Co Op and my priorities are my farmers, this community, this gin. But I also 100% strongly feel that one of my responsibilities as the manager of Wall Co Op is to advance US cotton on a global scale. If not that, then what for? We have to think further than just our community, further than our area. Which is why when I was offered to do this podcast, I'm like, absolutely. Have I ever done a podcast before? Nope. I listen to them every morning, but I've never done one.
• 10:35
  Speaker B: I can't believe you haven't done one because you're. You sound great.
• 10:39
  Speaker A: Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Again, it's those years of vocal training.
• 10:42
  Speaker B: Yes, there you go. That is so. I, I completely agree. And so one question I have about production. Are you, do you, do you guys, are you completely dependent on rain or do you have irrigation?
• 10:59
  Speaker A: You know, we did have irrigation. I say did past tense. Because the waters, waters run out. I mean, when you're, when you're looking at your fourth year of no significant rainfall, that water, that water goes away. And you know, we plant cotton, but we also plant corn and there's grain, sorghum and there's wheat and there's other things that, that are grown around here. We do have irrigation where a large selection of dry land cotton and it's just been very dry and so the irrigation is just not there anymore. And it would take substantial rainfall over the period. I mean it would take the creeks to run. It would take, you know, serious rainfall to even replenish our underground water system at this point. And so what we're hoping on is even though we're pretty much all dry land this year, that you get those two or three timely rains that can keep the crop, it could keep it going. I mean, cotton, cotton is a sturdy crop, but it still needs rain.
• 11:56
  Speaker B: Everything's got to have water. You've got to have water. And cotton is, you know, has gotten a weird reputation for being a high water crop. Maybe it is in some parts of the world, but certainly not here.
• 12:08
  Speaker A: Not here. No, not, not at all. Not here. And we just, we just need a few timely rains. You know, there's chances of rain this weekend and I hope it comes to fruition. But it seems as if that, you know, we get these rain chances and we get hopeful and people prepare, they fertilize and, and then it just doesn't ever come.
• 12:28
  Speaker B: Yeah, I know. So you guys probably depend a lot on insurance where you are, just like we do.
• 12:33
  Speaker A: Absolutely. And even that, well, the farmers do for sure. Jen's not so much. We don't have that.
• 12:41
  Speaker B: You don't have that. Yeah. And we're able to understand like this is where they harvest their cotton and then they bring it to you to the gin. So if there's no cotton harvested, there is nothing to do, there's no income.
• 12:57
  Speaker A: Well, and one of my goals, you know, a couple about a month ago we actually had House AG Committee Chairman G.T. thompson from Pennsylvania. He was in our area and he stopped by the gym, he stopped by Wall Co Op and we had a few people here. August Pfluger came down that day as well. And I took him through a tour of the. And he was promoting the Farm Bill. And as absolutely essential. The Farm Bill is for our farmers in the United States, I 100% know that it is essential. Without them, there would be no cotton gins, which means there would be no cotton warehouses, there'd be no cotton mills. All of it goes up. However, the gin and the farmer have a rather symbiotic relationship. Neither one are successful without the other, because simply growing a crop doesn't make it profitable. And the damage to the infrastructure over the last four to five years is so critical at this point. One of these days, it's going to rain again. And what happens when it rains and the gins aren't here anymore? When the gins aren't here anymore, then. Then your warehouses suffer, your oil mills suffer, your cotton fiber mill suffer. It suffers all the way up the chain, and eventually it impacts your export markets and all of that. So the gin is just as crucial to cotton in the United States as the farmers who grow it are.
• 14:35
  Speaker B: Out here on the Texas plains. Water is everything, and there's a resource that's as vital as it is fragile. Our Playa lakes. These lakes are nature's reservoir, catching rainwater to recharge our aquifer and provide lifelines for wildlife. But now they need our help. In collaboration with the Texas Playa Lakes Conservation Initiative and the Cargill Global Water Challenge, Sarah has started the Our Legacy Is Tomorrow's Water initiative to inspire and work with landowners to restore and protect our Playa Lake. Each playa we save helps secure a sustainable water future for the generations that will be coming after us. Whether it's improving soil health, restoring habitats, or recharging groundwater, we are committed to making a difference. Together, we can build a legacy that we can all be proud of. To learn how you can join in, visit the Playa Lakes Restoration Initiative paint page on the Sarah website. Let's keep Texas water flowing strong for the future. Visit sara-conservation.com when people, I think, think of farmers and farming, it's easy to just think of the land and what happens right there. But it's a. It is a very complex chain of events that happen.
• 16:01
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 16:02
  Speaker B: From the farm to whatever we're looking at.
• 16:06
  Speaker A: Absolutely. And we've been around for 75 years. Our gin has been here for 75 years. And we are so blessed. But it's not just the gin that I have to think of. You have to take a broader approach. I look around. Yes. These families, these farmers rely on the gin to. To gin Their crop. But then you look at the people that you employ, you look at the property taxes you pay to your local school district. Everybody in the area is dependent upon the success of the gin. My employees, myself, my family, the school down the road. If something were to happen to Wall co option, it would negatively impact more than just the farmers families around it would negatively impact. And so I have been a strong advocate. Like I have told the board of directors this and I've told my patrons when they come in, we have to start thinking for further than this crop year. What about next crop year? What about the year after that? And we do that by ensuring that we diversify as much as possible. How can we make sure we are still around for another 75 years? Part of that is adding new products and services. Part of that is expanding your reach, becoming more than just a cotton gin. So that way you can have a steady stream of some sort of income to rely on.
• 17:27
  Speaker B: When I called earlier that it said Wall co op gin and country store.
• 17:32
  Speaker A: We do. We have a beautiful farm store. It was built in 2017, right at the perfect time when cost of materials were low before COVID We are so blessed that we have made the changes that we've made in the times that we've made them, because it is absolutely saved us in times such as these that we're in right now. We have a beautiful farm store. We have a grain elevator, we have three fuel stations. And I'm working on bringing another product to the gin. I don't want to disclose it right now. I've applied. The USDA had a grant out there that actually. Grant application ends tomorrow, but it's called the value added producer grant.
• 18:10
  Speaker B: I've been working on one of those this week.
• 18:12
  Speaker A: You have been? I submitted my application on the seventh. So, you know, it's all about researching what is out there, what can I utilize for my advantage and that is necessary for the gin and the patrons. Now granted, it doesn't cover what's lost by not ginning a crop, but if it can help you to lose less, that's always a good thing, right?
• 18:36
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 18:37
  Speaker A: If anything you do helps you lose less, you have to consider it a win in these types of years. I mean, just to put it into perspective, our average crop was around 65,000 bales in the last three years. Years. We've ginned 30 combined.
• 18:55
  Speaker B: Wait, so 30?
• 18:57
  Speaker A: Our. Our five year average was 65,000 bales a year for the last for Wall Kawa. And in the last three years we've ginned a total of 30,000 combined with.
• 19:08
  Speaker B: The other two co with the other.
• 19:10
  Speaker A: Two just the same as us.
• 19:13
  Speaker B: Gosh.
• 19:13
  Speaker A: Okay, so when three gens can put out over 300,000 bales one year and then the next year the three may have 30 to 35,000. We have taken a serious hit from lack of rainfall. I know other places in Texas have gotten some rain. South Texas has been so fortunate. Some of it they've gotten too much rain. I mean I. A couple, maybe a month ago they got 28 inches. But we just need some of that to come this direction. And of course prices don't help, market doesn't help. There are so many factors involved. And I don't think that the average consumer or American realizes how much ag impacts the gdp, our gross domestic product. I don't think Americans realize it. For example, in 2023, ag and ag related industries contributed $1.95 trillion to the American GDP. Most people don't realize that because of ag and ag's products, they support 22 million jobs in the United States. That's a massive area of impact. And when it suffers, it causes a lot of suffering across the scope.
• 20:32
  Speaker B: That is exactly right. And I mean that's one reason, you know, that our farm bills and important. And it's important to figure out how, how do, how do we, as we become drier and drier. You know, I'm reading a book on, it's called Heaven's Harsh Tableland. And it's the history of our area. And he's, he's talking about, you know, looking back through, you know, the thousands and millions of years, you know, cross in, talking about these different, you know, cycles of when it, when we went from this wet, marshy area to a very dry area, you know, and they can see back, you know, through those geographical formations what it was like, you know, and how dry it became. And you know, that's why I feel like, okay, whether or not I don't care what people call or what we can, you can argue all day about what, what's causing our weather patterns to change. They're cyclical, they're coming back around. If that's the case, then how do we, how do we, how do we stay alive until it changes and then how do we prepare the next, you know, generation of people who deal with what we're dealing with?
• 21:50
  Speaker A: Now that is a very good question and that is something that I have been actively looking into. How do we secure our future and how do we secure the future of cotton in these trying years and I think there, there are a few things that we can do. Myself as a gym manager and other people in the industry. One, we truly need to advance the support of US Cotton globally. I mean, when you sit back and think about it, recent years, Brazil has become the dominant force in the global cotton production. And they've recently surpassed the United States as the world's leading exporter. Well, why is that what happened? You know, people can analyze certain areas, but the truth of the matter is Brazil is cutting down their rainforest.
• 22:38
  Speaker B: Right?
• 22:38
  Speaker A: That is what they're doing. They are clearing their land for ag. Illegal logging, infrastructure development. And the laws that are in place in, in Brazil are not being enforced because they see cash dollar.
• 22:51
  Speaker B: There are, I mean, there's whole people groups that have been wiped out, wiped out.
• 22:58
  Speaker A: The sad thing is all of these places that they're clearing land for ag, those are still the poorest places in Brazil. They see no economic development because of it. The only people that are making more money in Brazil are the leaders that are forcing this carry. I think. As of June 2023, it was. Nearly 25% of the Amazonian rainforest have been destroyed due to ag expansion. 25% of the Amazon rainforest is already gone. And if leading trends continue, it is expected by 2050 that another 59 million hectares, which is bigger than the size of France, will be gone. It will be gone. And the world will not be able to sustain the emissions put forth by simply wiping out our rainforest. That is why I strongly, strongly advocate for programs like the U.S. cotton Trust Protocol. There are two sides of that. One, our world is changing, policies are changing. What consumers want is changing. Yes, their demands are changing. And so the US Contrast Protocol will do two things. It helps meet the needs of the consumers and the buyers. And there's a lot of retailers out there that are joining the cause of the Contrast Protocol and promise to only buy cotton in the United States if it's part of the protocol. So eventually that will affect the bottom dollar for my growers if they're not involved in the protocol. But the biggest thing, and this is what I tell all of my growers, I already know you are growing your cotton in sustainable ways. I already understand that with the cost of input, the markets being where they are. You are stewards of your land, land that has been in your family generations. I know you make the best decisions for your farms, but consumers don't.
• 24:54
  Speaker B: So the purpose, yes, neither do the end buyers. This is what's so shocking to me, is how many of them are like, you know, Asking for these things. And we're like, okay, we've been doing that for, like, ever.
• 25:06
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Right. But they want you to prove it. And so that's what I tell them.
• 25:10
  Speaker B: Right.
• 25:10
  Speaker A: The purpose of the protocol is not to show what you're not what you are doing, because you are doing all of this, but it's to prove what you are not doing. You are not deforesting the land. You are not utilizing slavery, labor, or human trafficking or any of that other horrible things that goes on in the industry globally. So that is why it is absolutely important. And I know people are hesitant to make changes. I get that. But we have to change if we want to survive.
• 25:43
  Speaker B: I think it's easy for. For us in agriculture to, you know, we always talk about how, oh man, people are so far removed from their food, but we are also far removed from the consumer. And we forget that the consumer, that's our market.
• 26:00
  Speaker A: Like.
• 26:00
  Speaker B: Like, we need to recognize the fact that we are as far away from them as they are from us. And if we. If it were any other business, you would be going, what do my customers want?
• 26:13
  Speaker A: What are the needs?
• 26:13
  Speaker B: What are their needs? What do they want? You know, and what, you know, what I, Lacey and I see is just this. And I guess this is what I like about Contrast Protocol is that it is an industry. It's a grassroots effort. And what we keep saying. We just had this conversation on a previous recording of a podcast of. Lacey made the comment that farmers, you know, she feels like a commodity. And what we see with all of these different. 5 million different certifications from these, all these different certifiers, who are the ones that are making the money? Is that who, you know, farmers are just being. It's just another way for farmers to be farmed. So if we can. Can agree on these are the protocols, if you want to know this, then this is. This is what you need to know for your company to meet your goals, to meet the consumer demands that you have here. Here's where you're going to get it from.
• 27:09
  Speaker A: Exactly. And another thing that I don't think consumers really understand, you know, I. It has been pushed so far out there in mainstream media now that the dangers of, you know, microplastics, Everyone knows about microplastics, but they focus on plastic bottles. They focused on, you know, packaging and this. The truth of the matter is that the apparel industry generates 8.3 million tons of plastic pollution a year. The apparel industry is one of the worst things for plastic contamination and microplastics. In our oceans, in our lives, it's not. Yes, the water bottles and your Walmart sacks and all of that makes a difference as well. But the clothes that you put on your body also matters. And so our job is also to educate the consumer.
• 28:06
  Speaker B: Yes. Yeah.
• 28:07
  Speaker A: How can we educate you on what is going on? We can recognize that there is a problem. We could speak about this problem till we're blue in the face. But how do you put that in a way that the average American can understand? When you buy your cheap fashion From Shein or Temu, you are contributing to an 8.3 million ton problem every year. That is what you're doing. And it is important for the industry to educate everyone involved. And I. There are people that are doing that. The National Cotton Council, Cotton Incorporated. They are working hard to do that. And. But it's up to us. It's up to the 463gen managers in Texas, just like me to push that narrative.
• 28:55
  Speaker B: I think also too mean. I'm. I've become way more mindful in the last year of where I get my clothes and that if I'm buying something new, that it's. It's a natural fiber. You know, I'm always looking at the tag now and. But I'm not going to buy from Sheen or Temu or somewhere like that when I could go to Goodwill.
• 29:18
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 29:19
  Speaker B: You know, and, and buy things that are also affordable, you know, and so I might save something from the landfill, but I'm not gonna. I don't wanna add, you know, to the demand, because I think that's what it is, is for consumers to understand, is that for every time you do that Sheen haul or whatever, you're actually, you know, rewarding and saying, this is what we want. We don't. We don't really want natural fibers. We want, you know, something else. And so what I found is like, I'm always looking also for vintage. Especially like, Ralph Lauren is my favorite vintage thing to find. I love it. And people notice, you know, and. Because it's not. It's not trendy. Right. It is something that's completely different. And I found, like, people want to know, you know, and that gives you an opportunity right there to say, hey, I'm being ambassador for natural fibers. Never mind the fact that, like a portion of my, you know, household income comes from cotton production. It's better for us all around.
• 30:28
  Speaker A: It truly is. And I am also a, much to my husband's dismay, a Goodwill girl. I'm like, let's go see what Goodwill has I don't shop brand new. I don't shop brand new. I shop Goodwill. I shop things like Marshalls or Ross or things like that where they're a year or two, two out of the big name brand stores because they will also, brand new items will also end up in a landfill because they would rather throw it away than to donate it to someone else. It would rather go in the landfill. And that just is so sad to me. And it's just such a negative side of humanity that I don't necessarily agree with. But people don't. Consumers have these demands. But also at the same time, are they willing to pay for it?
• 31:16
  Speaker B: Well, and can they pay for it?
• 31:18
  Speaker A: That's another issue.
• 31:19
  Speaker B: And, and one of the things too, that's happened with our Goodwills and resales because it has become the thing that people like me who might, could afford it are, are going to Goodwill, which is pushing Goodwill prices up.
• 31:33
  Speaker A: It is.
• 31:34
  Speaker B: And impacting, negatively impacting people who were shopping there who. I'm wondering if it's shoving them into a sheen buy.
• 31:42
  Speaker A: Exactly. No, that's, that's so true. Or even Amazon, even, Even when you buy things from Amazon. But I've gone to Goodwill and I'm like, why is this, this price? This is.
• 31:52
  Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Oh, yes, exactly. Especially if you're looking for, you know, the natural fiber things that have. That they know now, you know, what that is, you know, about. You know, I think maybe if it's a. I don't know, not to get like, I don't understand the whole process of Goodwill's structure. You know what I mean? Like.
• 32:15
  Speaker A: Right.
• 32:16
  Speaker B: You know, I'm not sure they do good. They really do. You know, they do provide people good. And I think a lot of folks that, you know, have nonprofits like me look at how do we create business structures that fund the good things that we want to do? That's a legitimate way to do it, you know.
• 32:33
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 32:34
  Speaker B: But I think that, you know, we do. It's like every time you make a choice, you're throwing a rock in the, in the, in a pond and you don't, you know, you've got to think about what those ripples are. And that's why it's so. It's easy for us to make snap judgments on things, but we don't understand the life cycle of something. The complete life cycle of something also has to be considered. And a lot of people just don't have the time, time, you know, or the privilege to think about those things and that.
• 33:03
  Speaker A: And you know what? That is true. The privilege of being able to think about that. So many people wake up and they rush through their day to day lives and they, they make decisions based on what best fits them and their family's needs at that moment. Without, they don't have the privilege to stop and think, hey, did I just do something else that I didn't want to do? You know, which is why they make those Shein and those TAMU purchases without realizing that it'll never break down in a landfill and it will always be there. And the textile industry, you know what is the, the newest thing that I heard that the average person consumes a credit card's worth of plastic by weight every week. We're not eating it. It's in our water, it's in our laundry. It's when we put it on our body, it's the shape shedding of the fibers that is so important. I think there was a study that was done and I can't remember the name of the person that did this study. So if you're listening, I'm so sorry. I doubt they are, but I thought I'd throw that out there. There was recently a study done on someone's brain and they found microplastics inside a brain. And I'm just like, these people aren't willingly eating plastic. It's because of what we put on our body. And we have to spread information and awareness on natural fibers and what man made fibers can do to the environment that is harmful. And we really need mills and manufacturers, manufacturers to commit to buying natural fibers.
• 34:40
  Speaker B: That is such a good point. And, and you know, how, how we connect those, those people, that, that's, that to me, that is one of the most important aspects of, of what we need to be doing in the cotton industry is, is we need those people on our farm. Because here's what you know, I think that these, you look at what happened with organic cotton in India, you know, twice now believe it's happened where you've had this huge fraud where this is certified organic cotton. And then it's not, it's not, it's, it's fraud. It's fraud. And yet we continue to use the same certifier. I don't understand this, you know, like why we, if there's a way for us to build that trust. And you build trust through relationships.
• 35:36
  Speaker A: 100%. You build trust through developing those relationships.
• 35:41
  Speaker B: Yes. Today's episode is brought to you by Evan Stone with Clear Rock Farm and Ranch, part of the Clear Rock Realty Group in Lubbock, Texas. Evan understands West Texas land, agriculture, and what it takes to buy and sell farms and ranches in our unique region. If you're ready to make your next move, trust someone who knows the lay of the land. Visit Evan at clearrockrealty.com serving Lubbock and the surrounding communities. Clear Rock Farms and Ranch, your partner on the plains. And we, you know, we've had several conversations. In fact, we've have an initiative that we've been pushing back and pushing back for the last year or two on creating a, a meeting around a conversation. So in the energy industry, they have a meeting that's run similar to this, where they bring Everybody across from CEOs of energy companies to environmental groups and you get together on a smaller scale. Chatham House Rules, where you can say what was said, but you can't say who said it. So it, it lends to the sense of confidentiality so people have more freedom to say what they, what they want.
• 37:10
  Speaker A: To say leads for honest conversations.
• 37:12
  Speaker B: Yes, yes. And so what we would love to see is, okay, you brands and retailers, you come, come to Lovett, Texas, the heart of cotton country. I mean, we're 5 million acres within one hour of Lubbock. 3 million of that is cotton.
• 37:28
  Speaker A: That's, that's such an astronomical number when you say it out loud.
• 37:31
  Speaker B: It's huge.
• 37:31
  Speaker A: It's hard to fathom.
• 37:32
  Speaker B: It is hard to fathom. Come here then. Let us spend a day. Let us teach you about our culture and how to talk to people in our culture. Let's teach you what soul Health really is about. When you hear all these words about regenerative and all of these different things. Let's talk to you about erosion. Let's talk to you about how different it is here from growing, you know, in the Mississippi Delta.
• 37:53
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 37:54
  Speaker B: Let's, let's really educate you so that you know what you're really asking of people. And then let's throw up a spreadsheet and let's say here's the, here's the inputs and here's the bottom line for a farmer. Do you recognize the risk that you're running? When a farmer is, is in the negative from producing something that you want? You, you, your risk is not losing your customer, your risk is losing your supply chain.
• 38:29
  Speaker A: Absolutely. You know what they need? I say they, the industry needs that quantifiable data. They need to be able to see it broken down so, so often, so often. And it's just a habit. It's just the habit of our Culture, it's, it's the way people are. People turn inward and they think about what can I do, what's best for me, what will make my business succeed. But that is so important to turn outward. Look around you. And that is why I'm such a proponent for a cooperative gym structure. I mean, because the success of all is important to me. And you succeed. When you succeed, I succeed.
• 39:08
  Speaker B: I feel the same way. I love the co op. I remember the first time I was in Kentucky at a meeting and an agriculture meeting and someone, the word co op came up. And I have never heard so many people just cuss out loud in a meeting, like, you know what I mean? And I had no idea that people did not. There were other areas where people did not just in general value co ops. And to me, it is a value added for the farmer.
• 39:37
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 39:37
  Speaker B: It is like this, is this when you have a cooperative, you've had, you've added another market for them. And I mean, I think it is. I just, I just don't think you can beat the structure here. A lot of them are turning towards LLCs instead of a cooperative, you know, as a tax, you know, entity. But it's still the same idea that shared, you know, collaborative work. And I just, I think it's so, so valuable. And I just, I love really, you know, really what you're saying here. Part of what Lacey and I, what our goal has been, is how do we reach outside of ourselves, outside of our community, outside of our region, outside of our state, outside of our industry to find those partners that we're looking for. You know, we work really closely with the energy sector and we say to them all the time, hey, you know what people say about you, they say about us, there's the same kind of misconceptions, you know. Right. Because we have we always done good in the past? No. The largest man made disaster in the world was the dust bowl. So, no. Have we always done good? No. But you know what? When we knew better, we do better. We, you know, we did better. And, and we're working still towards, you know, better practices and learning different things and finding that data that would help. So how can we as two different industries, how can we collaborate to help each other?
• 41:01
  Speaker A: Well, and what growing up, all throughout, I was always told, my mother actually told me this from the time I was little. A smart person learns from their own mistakes. A genius learns from the mistakes of others. And collaborating with other, other industries on what they have done and what has not been successful is how you can make real change. Oh, you know what? I thought I was going to do that, but, you know, that didn't work for you, and I can see that not working for me too. So let's, let's change our focus or let's pivot here. So even if, like your energy sector and your cotton sector, even though their businesses are two different things, their structure is probably, probably similar, especially an energy cooperative and a cotton cooperative. I mean, their structure is fundamentally the same. And there's so much to be learned when you share with other people. There's so much knowledge to be gained. And so you brought about that roundtable discussion where people were able to speak anonymously, and it shouldn't be that way. We should be able to have honest conversations with our peers and say, how do I. How can we solve this together? Because it's not just about Walker watching.
• 42:13
  Speaker B: Well, right, exactly. You know, part of the problem, and especially is, you know, for oil and gas companies, is they don't even want to talk about their successes because they feel like if we even talk about the things that we're doing right, then the assumption goes that we've been doing it wrong. And then we get punished regardless of what we do. You know, people are going to hate us regardless of what we do, you know, and, and then, you know, what we have found is that every industry, there are people that do not want to do good. They don't care, they're greedy. That's in every single industry. But by and large, the people that we've worked with in, in the fossil fuel industry, they are not that way. They are. There's a lot of younger kids that are moving in. They have been trained from the time they were young to understand the value of the environment.
• 43:01
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 43:02
  Speaker B: And they want to do something that's right. That's good enough for the environment.
• 43:07
  Speaker A: That is so good. And when, when you run across those people, you have to step back and realize, you know what? That is a, that is a condition of their human nature. That is a them problem. And sometimes that's the problem of the human condition. And you will run into those people no matter where you go.
• 43:23
  Speaker B: Right.
• 43:23
  Speaker A: But it can be disheartening. It can be challenging. How do I. How do you get through to something someone like that? And maybe you can't.
• 43:32
  Speaker B: Well, no, but what you do, what to me, it's like, how do we reward? This is to me, the number one issue for me on incentivizing and, and offering incentives to people is that we have not done a good Job rewarding the pioneers.
• 43:53
  Speaker A: That is so true.
• 43:54
  Speaker B: If, if, if brands and retailers would step back 10 or 15 years and go, okay, we're, we're going to look at the people that have been, they did this when they did not know if it would work. They did not have any data. They did not have the science that we have now. They had no idea if it would work. And they spent the money and they took the risk. Okay, how can we reward them in a way that really makes an impact and makes an impression and encourages others to do something other people to say, yeah, because when. And you can take and build a story around that we're going to take this person that's been doing this for this many years and, and have, you know, because a lot of times it's not just the economics, it's also the social risk that you take, you know, and so when you do have, you, we do have this culture that we have to also figure out how do we work within the culture that we have to promote things that, this participation in cotton trust protocol or, you know, these different things that the consumer wants. And we as an industry, the cotton industry saying this is, this is going to grow markets for us.
• 45:10
  Speaker A: It surely will.
• 45:11
  Speaker B: It will grow a market for us. So in order to get. How do we change the stigma is what has to happen. We have to look at how do we. Those social behaviors and the social norms that prevent people. I know Patagonia years, several years ago, did a survey and they asked farmers like, what are the things that prevent you from changing practices? And number one was what will my neighbor think? And number, number two was economic.
• 45:41
  Speaker A: Yeah. So what will my neighbor think? You know what? At 42 years old, I have, I think all of us, all of us have gone through our life worried about what someone else will think. And that is such a, it's such a sad thing when you sit back and realize it because you're afraid to make changes based on that. And just the same as the industry, people are afraid to do different things because of that. And it's just, it's just sad that. I apologize. It's just a sad thing.
• 46:08
  Speaker B: It is, it. But it is part of it. I think part of it comes from, you know, our, in our DNA of just being around few people. You just, you don't have that many people to lose yourself. So, you know, we've expand. Our world's expanded greatly, but still that you, you don't want to be the one that's the, the, the odd person out, you know, I mean, some, some of us are more. I mean, I don't know how to say this, but it's like some of us are more. Like we don't care if we're weird. We're weird anyway.
• 46:38
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 46:39
  Speaker B: I mean, you're, you're going. Doesn't matter what I do. You're gonna think I'm weird, so I might as well do something that I think I want to do.
• 46:45
  Speaker A: And you, and you brought up a valid point. You said, you know, back then, compared to now, our, our reach was so more restricted, you know, way back when. Which means one thing, which is I see as a positive, and this is something that I can take from that. Our ability to make impactful changes has also improved. So we can't focus on what could go wrong. We. True. I, Me personally, I say we, but me personally, I truly need to focus on. That just means I have so much more reach than I did before. I am able to make more change. I can impact more people. And that is such an exciting thing to comprehend. I mean, it's scary, but you do it anyway.
• 47:28
  Speaker B: No, it's, it's so true. And in. And you're right. And I think that the thing I've learned as I've gotten older is I'm less afraid of failing than I was in. You know, we went through bankruptcy about 15 years ago, and so, like, when you go through the worst failure you can think of, you know, everything else is like, whatever.
• 47:51
  Speaker A: You know, you are preaching to the choir on that one.
• 47:55
  Speaker B: Yeah. So it's, you know, I can handle it. And what I'm. Not only can I handle it, what I've, what I found out is that, I mean, like, for us, that failure led to really, really things that are very, they're beyond good. They're, they're, they're different. And they have become the thing that's been good for us.
• 48:17
  Speaker A: You know, I, I, I won't get into details on it, but I know exactly what you mean. The last two years have been some of the most challenging years of my entire life. And just things going through the business. And then, you know, during that time frame, Right. Like two weeks after I became manager, my mother. Accident. My mother actually passed away. So it's been challenging. But we can do hard things. We were made to do hard things. We were, we were not made to be stagnant. We were made to do hard things. And that may have been your story, but it is not your testimony.
• 48:53
  Speaker B: You know, Lacy and I listened to a motivational speaker. This man is a blind rock climber. He's climbed all of the large peaks, including Everest. And he's also kayaked the. The Colorado River. I think think it is, Yes. I mean, like, I mean like we're talking about. This guy's done the stuff and he said there's three kinds of people. There's, there's, there's hikers and there's campers, and then there's people that climb and the climbers are asking for adversity. Like it's, this is part of life, you know, the more you reach and the more you stretch, the more you're inviting suffering into your life.
• 49:36
  Speaker A: 100%, absolutely. And. But you know what? One thing you can take from that. And I apologize if I interrupted you.
• 49:43
  Speaker B: No.
• 49:43
  Speaker A: Is. And I tell. I truly say this. I'm sure people who may listen to this podcast be like, oh God, I've heard Kelly say this a time or 12, but you learn more in the valleys than the mountaintops will ever teach you. You learn who you are, you learn what you can overcome, and it just makes you that much more determined. So granted, I will never climb a mountain or kayak a river and I am full sighted, but I still probably could not manage that. However, we can all challenge ourselves and push us, push ourselves to new limits.
• 50:17
  Speaker B: Right? And for some of us, it may just be saying, oh, thank you for complimenting me on my jacket. It is.
• 50:25
  Speaker A: Exactly.
• 50:25
  Speaker B: Let me show you how you can tell if it's 100% cotton and bonus points if it has a tag on it that says Made in the usa.
• 50:33
  Speaker A: Made in the usa. You know, I heard an interesting fact of a week or so ago and it was kind of shocking and little sad. I was in Lubbock for, for a conference and a gentleman made mention that the US cotton, the US cotton market, we create roughly on average 14 million bales of cotton a year. We consume 1.8 million of those bales and then we import 20 million. How backwards is that? How backwards? We need to not only encourage the use of U.S. cotton globally, but also in our country.
• 51:11
  Speaker B: We have 5 million acres across Texas of cotton. And it's a 24 billion dollar industry. That state of Texas. We have 5,000 acres of grapes. And it's a 20 billion acre dollar industry because it all stays here.
• 51:22
  Speaker A: It does.
• 51:22
  Speaker B: And all of our cotton, it leaves. It leaves. Then it freaking comes back.
• 51:26
  Speaker A: You know, it comes back in. And, and you know, and anyway, that is why.
• 51:32
  Speaker B: And those things are beyond the scope of my.
• 51:35
  Speaker A: What we can manage right now.
• 51:36
  Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly.
• 51:37
  Speaker A: But we can start by enrolling in the protocol by ensuring our cotton is traceable through from beginning to end, by purchasing from people who support our mission.
• 51:50
  Speaker B: So do you know, are there particular brands that are that. That we can shout out that are buying Cotton Trust Protocol Cotton?
• 51:59
  Speaker A: I know. I know a few off the top of my head. Of course, the full list is available@the trustuscotton.org website, but right off the bat, Amazon, Gap, J. Crew, Levi Strauss, Lululemon, Ralph Lawrence, Target, Under Armour, Gymshark. Those are some big brands and they are part of the Cotton Trust protocol. They have made a commitment to purchase us cotton in the protocol. Those are big names and they can make an impact on our industry. And I'm so glad people are awakening to the fact change is needed and natural fibers are important and we can all do our part. I don't know if many people know this, but Cotton Incorporated, they have a program. I'm sure you know this. It's called the Blue Jeans Go Green program. Have you heard of that?
• 52:47
  Speaker B: I have, yes.
• 52:48
  Speaker A: And we actually collect old denim and we send it off to their program for the purpose of recycling. I think all gins should get an onboard of that. All gins.
• 52:59
  Speaker B: Fabulous. Yeah.
• 53:00
  Speaker A: We have a collection program that we, we. I tell my farmers, I know how many old pair of jeans you got hiding back your closet. I know they're holy. And it's time you toss them before you throw them into the trash. Bring them up here and let me send them to the Blue Jeans Go Green program. So we have an initiative where we recycle old denim in our co op. And I wish other co ops would do that.
• 53:22
  Speaker B: That's a great idea. I mean, and there's some great dropping off points here in Lubbock for people that could do that. And we may have to follow up on that and, and give a couple of shout outs and see if we can't set up some collection sites for that.
• 53:36
  Speaker A: It's so important.
• 53:37
  Speaker B: That'd be fabulous. Yeah, it's a great.
• 53:39
  Speaker A: Just small changes. We can all make small changes that have a large ripple. When multiple people stand in a line doing the same thing, their impact is greater than if one person does it alone.
• 53:49
  Speaker B: Yeah. And you know, one thing I. I've learned through the years because I'm the kind of like all or nothing person, is that like even a drip consistently fills up a bucket.
• 53:58
  Speaker A: Absolutely. Oh my gosh.
• 53:59
  Speaker B: And usually makes less of a mess.
• 54:00
  Speaker A: Than the way I did than turning on the waterfall. Although. Lord, I know you're listening. If you could please turn on the waterfall above we would take some, we would take some.
• 54:11
  Speaker B: We need some brain. This has been, this has been so great. I would love to have you on again. And I'd love to have you on. Let's talk about what it's like to be woman in, in the position that you're in. I'm, I'm just super impressed with the people that recognize your talent. And I'd love to kind of follow up on that because there's not, not many women doing what you're doing.
• 54:30
  Speaker A: I think there's maybe four or five in the United States. So, I mean, it's, it's, you know what? Women can bring a perspective that some other people don't recognize. You know, they don't see things from the same perspective. That's what I mean.
• 54:43
  Speaker B: Well, it's good, too, because you also, I mean, I think it's good to bring people from outside of our industry in because a lot of times we, we can't see because we're too close to it.
• 54:52
  Speaker A: Very true. Very true. And I would love to be back on. This has been a wonderful conversation.
• 54:55
  Speaker B: Great. I've enjoyed it. Thank you so much. Really appreciate you giving us your time. And friends, thank you for also giving us your time. And I hope that you have enjoyed this as much as I have. And if you have, would you share and maybe even rate a review this podcast? We hope that you have learned a lot this year and we look forward to, to having you. Join us again on another episode of Conservation Stories.