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Municipalities and Farmers Collaborating to Save Water with Ladona Clayton · Conservation Stories

• 0:15
  Speaker A: Hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of conservation Stories. I'm your host, Tillery Timmins Sims, and this is a podcast where we talk about all things conservation and ag and urban ag and rural economies and all kinds of stuff. And we do that on behalf of Sandhill Area Research association. Today I have with me a special guest. Her name is Ladonna Clayton, and she is with the Ogallala land and Water Conservancy. And I am so excited you are here, Donna.
• 0:45
  Speaker B: Thanks. I'm so excited to be here, truly. I welcome the opportunity we.
• 0:52
  Speaker A: I didn't get a chance to go to your meeting in Portalis, but my partner in crime, Lacey Ferdiman, was there texting me, like minute by minutes, like, updates, and I was like, why am I not there? I wish I was there. This is really important. I should have been there. So obviously she was like, you have to call her now. We got to get her on the podcast. So I'm really glad that we were able to schedule you as quickly as we have because I want you to tell me and our listeners about yourself, and then I want you to tell us what you guys are up to.
• 1:28
  Speaker B: All right, great. Well, thanks for. I just really want to say first, thanks. A shout out to Lacey Vardaman, because she's just fabulous. And from the moment I met her, I was just ignited because of her passion.
• 1:41
  Speaker A: Force of nature. Force of nature.
• 1:43
  Speaker B: Yes, she is. She's definitely a force of nature. So I was delighted she came to summit. I'm sorry that you missed it, but we do have availability. We have information available if you're interested in looking at it. I born and raised portales, New Mexico, so not very far here from my stomping grounds in Clovis on the very eastern side of the state. I graduated there. I went. You know, I've been different places, but pretty much I've stayed close to home. And I've been in Clovis, New Mexico now for 49 years. My whole beginnings are education, which is kind of interesting because people should be asking me, how in the world did you end up in water and land conservation? It was just apparently fate.
• 2:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I hear you there.
• 2:33
  Speaker B: Yeah. I spent 32 years in education, mainly at the administration level, and in 2016, I ran for city commissioner and was elected district one. That opened up a whole new opportunity for me to really dig in and learn about water because it was assigned to me from the get go. Ladonna, how about hosting an eastern New Mexico water conservation summit that you know nothing about whatsoever? So I'm like, okay, well, I know how to do an event, so I will coordinate that. But on the back end of that event, then the landowners, especially the agriculture producers who attended, said, now that our eyes have been opened quite widely regarding the water scarcity we're going to be facing, how about if we do something about it? How about if we start thinking about some action here? So they prompted me to put together a strategic planning team. I did. And truly, that was the starting point. It is the blueprint for our project here in Clovis, New Mexico, residing northwest of Cannon Air Force Base, a major special operations wing and also known as the steadfast line. And we are like family with that installation. And we knew they're running out of water, so we built what's called a master water assurance plan. It took us a year when I was a city commissioner. It didn't find legs for a while until we kept moving forward. And we were relentless in our pursuit to get these key plans implemented, one being to create a land and water conservancy. I began that work October 2021. And by October, not October, but by April 2022, we had 53 irrigation wells voluntarily shut down. So that's the amazing work of irrigation farmers in our area who understood the crisis that we face and stepped up voluntarily and said, we need to stop irrigating. We need to do this. But we can't just stop without being compensated. So our job as a conservancy was, how will we make that happen? Where will we find the funding, and how will we ensure that our landowners remain whole? So that's kind of my journey to this point.
• 5:06
  Speaker A: So from October 2021 to April 2022.
• 5:11
  Speaker B: Yes. I mean, it was a heavy lift.
• 5:17
  Speaker A: Okay, so you. You held this water conference in 26, but surely, like, people were aware that you're running out of water. Were people really unaware of the situation?
• 5:27
  Speaker B: No, I think people understood in 2016, but there's. It is. It is difficult to really be. To get people to fully grasp. If they turn the faucet on and water comes out, then we're doing great. Right. But the data, the scientific research said very differently. So in our case, we began to create plans, but unfortunately, people did not move the plans like they should have at the city level. Right.
• 5:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's what's happened in Texas. We got all these plans, but we've not really funded the implementation of the plans as part of the problem. Yeah.
• 6:04
  Speaker B: Yes. So, you know, people who are, like myself and the group that I work with, these landowners, my board, we all have history and knowledge of the water crisis. And we never stopped pursuing the action. It's just that it came finally into place fully in 2021 when we launched the conservancy, which was another thing people did not want to get behind. But now everyone sees how critical it is to the work we're doing and the survival of this community.
• 6:40
  Speaker A: Can you talk about how, obviously, before October 2021, the owners of these wells were aware of what was coming, and they were ready to move on it. So tell me about that. Like, how. How did that happen? And, you know, how did you wind up getting the funding? And what. What was the compensation? What is it that. Cause, I mean, I know if I. If it's like it is here, in which I know it is, because I lived right on the eastern New Mexico border for quite a while. A lot of people have, you know, their. Their retirement is in their land. Like, that's their. That's their.
• 7:19
  Speaker B: You're right.
• 7:20
  Speaker A: Yeah. If you're doing something that is hurting their land value. I know at the. One of the Texas water meetings, somebody, you know, made the statement, if you tell everybody here to stop irrigating, you would have an economic disaster. You can't just, like, cut it off without having a plan. And you guys obviously had a plan that people have really jumped on.
• 7:42
  Speaker B: Yes. Yes, we did. And, really, the plan was in the initial design in 2016, finishing the plan in 2017. And one of the critical plans was, we need to bank this groundwater that is in the ogallala, because, as you well know, the ogallala is declining at a very rapid rate. And in our case, it's 93% is used by agriculture production, primarily irrigation. So you don't want to go to the irrigation farmer because they are the breadbasket. They're the heart and core of your economy, and yet, you understand they are the greatest users of the water. And fortunately, ours understood this. We're the bigger users. We can no longer afford to irrigate. So, from 2017, when the plan was finished, people kind of went their way. I could not find success in getting this plan implemented, not the conservancy and not this banking of groundwater plan. I met with great resistance, although within the plans, it specifically said where the funding sources would and would be if we pursue them. Well, guess what? A group started pursuing those funding sources in 2019.
• 9:03
  Speaker A: Oh, no.
• 9:05
  Speaker B: Yeah. So we got. We did it backwards. We had all the funding before we started the project, and that's. That's a beautiful way to go.
• 9:15
  Speaker A: You. So, in 2016, you. You have. You have this conference, and the landowners are like, okay, what are we going to do? So did you. Did you organize those landowner owners, and did they have some input into the plan that you created?
• 9:33
  Speaker B: Yes. Yes, I organized. I did a cross section of the community so that we had a balanced representation. That's really important. And you want some city, you want some county, you want people who are decision makers at the table, you know, in the government level, because you need them to be a part of understanding the research. And we were so research rich, and everybody had to dig into this. I still have my five inch, three ring notebook binder with all my. Oh, wow. Yeah. It was significant research because we wanted to be sure we started with a full understanding of what we're facing. Where's the best water, where we go get it? And how do we go about this? And is there other research besides our aquifer mapping study that was shared at the first summit? And there's a lot of great research out there pointing to this end result that we can work together to avoid, or we can just keep doing what we've always done, and then we run out of water. So, yes, we did bring a cross section of community together. The agriculture producers voices have been with us from the very beginning. In fact, you can go back to 2012 with these guys because they're sitting around a table with the former mayor that is now my board president for the Ogallala Land and Water Conservancy, and they're all having a conversation as far back as 2012. We think this is coming. Then we end up with the data to support it is coming. We host a summit with voices from Colorado and Texas, and I brought someone in from Arizona, and then we had people locally in New Mexico, and everyone is sharing and truly unpacking key data that all points to, you better do something. You better do it now. There are steps you can take. And the plans, there were five that came out of this master water assurance plan. They are all fully being implemented now.
• 11:41
  Speaker A: Wow. Wow. So, you know, that's something I like about New Mexico. And I've seen this. Not what you're talking about. I've seen the same thing in produced water. When there's a need, there's so not much of, you know, dry as many years of dragging your feet, you know, and it's like, we got to get on this. We got to get on this. We've got to get on this. And then, like, when. When you finally get on it, whoa. I mean, do you guys have a state water development board that has a state water plan?
• 12:12
  Speaker B: Yes. We do. And even the governor has a new 50 year water plan that she just released. But I said on the water policy and infrastructure task force that was put together by the governor, oh, over a year ago, and we did a lot of fabulous planning, but implementation has to happen. Right? Every time. And this seems to be the hard part for people, but we have to be people of action. So, yes, we do have that at the state level. I sit on five committees at the state level, all water related, at, and, and they're, they're moving things, they're working things. So, you know, the water advocates, a very key group, the water dialogue key group. We're all talking to each other. We're learning to work together because our entire state understands we are in a water crisis statewide. This is not limited or isolated. Right? It's everywhere. I will tell you this. You know, per talis, my hometown, is just 19 miles south of us, and they had the same data we had. Exactly. Their area was mapped for the aquifer the same time ours was by New Mexico Tech. And this is New Mexico Bureau of Geology and Mineral Resources led by Jeff Rawling. Okay, they come in, they map our aquifer. Much gloomier picture for Pertalis. And they predicted Pertalis would be in notable water restrictions by 2023, somewhere around June, July. Well, guess what? That's exactly what happened. So stage three emergency water restrictions for Pertalis, New Mexico, who had the same information but took no action. This is a really important thing for people to understand. You've got the data. The data was pointing in a particular direction. If you don't pick up and move, this is the outcome. So now we're trying to do everything we can to help Portalis.
• 14:19
  Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. When you're doing a podcast, you have to remember to keep talking. But I feel like I'm speechless. I'm like, I know. Wow, I cannot get over the fact that you had 53 wells voluntarily shut down.
• 14:32
  Speaker B: Everywhere I present, they're like, are you saying they voluntarily did this? Is that what you said, Ladonna? Yes, I am saying that because this is who these people are. These are honorable, care about our community. We're the ones who've taken, but with good cause, you know, to grow our crops. We did, but they'll also tell you. But we overpumped. We did because we thought the water would just continue to come.
• 15:00
  Speaker A: Right, right.
• 15:02
  Speaker B: They were getting like 1500 miles, miles per gallon, 1500 gallons per minute. So they're like, oh, wow, this is a lot of great water. But now you know, they're not getting anything close to that.
• 15:21
  Speaker C: Hello, friends. This is Tillery Timmons Sims. I want to take a moment to talk to you about an initiative that we are collaborating on with milestone environmental services. So, milestone made us aware of some proposed regulations, regulations that are before the railroad commission. So, in Texas, the railroad commission, even though the name doesn't match, regulates the energy sector and our laws. Our regulations for energy waste have not been updated since the 1980s. So it's time for some common sense improvements in those regulations. And those are right now waiting for.
• 15:59
  Speaker A: You to go and call on.
• 16:01
  Speaker C: So, in order to protect our soil and our groundwater, this is really important. So if landowners have not negotiated a great surface agreement with the oil company, then they are open to having waste.
• 16:15
  Speaker A: Dumped on their land.
• 16:16
  Speaker C: So we really appreciate your efforts. So you can go to Sara Dash conservation.com, you can go to initiatives and click on that. And the Dropbox that will come down. Down, you'll want to click on energy waste disposal. It's going to be really clear and really simple. Thanks for your time, friends. Appreciate it.
• 16:34
  Speaker A: Bye. So. So tell me, then. Okay, so there's five.
• 16:38
  Speaker B: It's.
• 16:38
  Speaker A: It's. There's five plans. Or is it like a five part plan?
• 16:42
  Speaker B: There are five separate plans. Okay. Because it builds what we call a water portfolio. And that's what every community needs, a water portfolio. You need to look at every possible water supply you have available. Don't discount anything. So you can. If you don't have surface water, which we don't. We don't have any surface water, but we're trying to work to bring surface water in from the ute reservoir. So they're building pipeline, as you and I speak, really, to get it to four communities.
• 17:14
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 17:15
  Speaker B: So the surface water is coming, but it'll be seven years still before it arrives. In the meantime, we've got to conserve this groundwater as our sole, truly finite source of water. Number two, then, or three, I should say, because you get the surface water on its way, we've got groundwater available. Must conserve. Number three is affluent reuse, effluent reuse is, like, vital. Like gold is what it is, right?
• 17:42
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 17:43
  Speaker B: So we're saving millions of gallons of water through that system. And then you want to think about your plias and restoring them and be sure they're fully, fully functioning to try to get as much recharge as you can all. Yeah. Although we all realize we can't recharge the aquifer rapidly. Every drop counts, right?
• 18:06
  Speaker A: Right. Because we're not talking about a. We're not talking about a one year problem. We're talking about. We're talking about, you know, generations and. And how do we prepare for generations to come? Yes. Yes. So you've got, um. You've got your surface, your ground, your effluent, and then that your restoration applies, and you have one more. What's your fifth thing?
• 18:29
  Speaker B: Well, this. No, there are four water resources there.
• 18:31
  Speaker A: Then.
• 18:32
  Speaker B: Yeah. The five plan. The fifth plan is just create a conservancy.
• 18:36
  Speaker A: Okay. Oh, okay.
• 18:37
  Speaker B: A land and water conservancy. So the other four plans, though, are all attached to what we just identified, four different water sources. Yeah.
• 18:45
  Speaker A: Sometimes, do you wake up and go, I can't. I can't believe this has happened? Like, I. I was teaching one day, and the next day, I know, I'm, like, doing this thing.
• 18:55
  Speaker B: Yes, I do. And the thing that took me by surprise is that my. I have a doctorate in educational leadership, and so I have a far. I mean, far reaching, I guess I should say, far reaching understanding of the key place that leadership plays in moving things. Right. But it must be done well. So I was surprised to see that those skills, that knowledge base, it transfers beautifully into leading this conservancy because these are similar skill sets, and the knowledge base is the same, except you must now learn about water irrigation wells, monitoring those wells. I had to learn about conservation easements deep in the. Up to my neck, and three of those right now. So you're, you know, that's been. Been kind of like drinking out of a fire hydrant.
• 19:54
  Speaker A: Yeah, I bet. Yeah, I bet. I bet. Wow. Okay. So y'all, you basically. Then you started getting movement, but you lost your funding because that funding went somewhere else. What did you do? What did you do then when you're like, okay, now we gotta find different funding. Did you find different funding, or was that source refunded?
• 20:14
  Speaker B: Oh, no, we never lost our funding.
• 20:16
  Speaker A: Oh, okay. I'm just. Sorry. Misunderstood.
• 20:17
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's okay. No, when we started, we just couldn't. We couldn't tap the funding we wanted to. No one seemed to have the wherewithal to really reach out. But then we reached out to cannon air force base for what's called the readiness and Environmental Protection Integration program. Now, this resides under the Department of Defense. And we had actually noted this, identified this within the cost benefit analysis that goes with the action plan. We said, where are we going to get the money? We knew about this tool, this instrument. So now, finally, someone goes out and says, we need you to write this proposal, because it must come from that military installation. And they did. Yeah, they did. We started out with 4.4.5 million there. Then we went to NRCS National Resources conservation for a regional conservation partnership program proposal, got 6.9 million there. So now, you know, things are moving, right? So the very funding sources we said to go after, we have acquired a. There's a whole story about then what we do to identify how to truly compensate the landowners fairly, because you're not just going to shut the well up. The most important thing truly to us, and especially near and dear to my heart, is you make sure every landowner is compensated fairly for doing something so honorable to help the many, you know, for the common good. So the first thing we did is we went in to meter the water. So we use a wraparound ultrasonic flow meter. NRCS works with us to get that job done, and we identify 7559 gallons per minute of available water in a semi contiguous well field next to cannon Air force base. Now it's in what's called a paleo channel, which is a unique formation in the aquifer. And this one especially showed more promise to get the water, you know, out of pockets of water there were still existing. So if you take 7559, believe it or not, gallons per minute, and you do the calculation for a three year lease. So we did a three year short term water, right, lease of that water, and that equates to 12 billion gallons of water. So every year you're gaining, because every year they're no longer using the water right for irrigation. And every time you add another well, you're adding more water, which now we're at 56 wells. So we're continuing to try to work with more landowners. But that's step one. Step one is go and meter the water and find out what they have. Step two is appraise that water. No one had appraised the value of groundwater before. So that was. Yeah, that was new. And we figured out how to do it, though. And what's really important is you ask yourself this question, what work was that water doing? So that means crops. What crops did it grow? You want a three year crop budget there for three years. You want to map that, but you want to use the present market value for the crop so they get the best, most fairest value. It's an income approach. So you're really looking at highest and best use, most beneficial use of the water, using an income approach for this appraisal. And you consider all things. You consider everything it cost for that crop not just the water used. Right. But all the things attached. Right.
• 24:22
  Speaker A: Right. You're looking at their. You're looking at their@their.net. profit.
• 24:25
  Speaker B: Yes. You're looking@their.net. profit. And then you're going to compare. What happens if we transition them to dry land? You have to do that, too. Now, I will tell you that there's these beautiful crop budgets you can access.
• 24:42
  Speaker A: I know about those. Oh, do you know I do use those many jobs.
• 24:49
  Speaker B: Yes. And what an asset. Because we are so close to the panhandle, we could use those and apply them to. Okay, what would that have been? You know, what was the price of the seed that you put in the ground? What was this price? What was that price? So we take all of that into account. We look at the irrigation assets, we look at what's sitting on the property. What's that value? Everything must be taken into account when you're appraising the value of the groundwater. And then when you're asking the landowner to walk away from what he or she has always known, generationally, even, and move to something you already know will not be as profitable.
• 25:30
  Speaker A: Right. Exactly. It's a huge sacrifice. Yes.
• 25:34
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah. It's a big one. So when you do the water appraisal, you determine what is the appraised value of the water multiplied by the gallons per minute of water production, annual water production. So when you do the multiplier, it's, well, we appraise your water value at, let's say, $250 per gallon, or maybe we did it at 225. So no one's is the same. Everybody's looked at individually. Very important because no two farmers are the same. I can tell you today that our producers would say, we're pretty happy with our payout for this because it's going to be close. If not, some of them said, well, don't know. We came out a little better here.
• 26:25
  Speaker A: Well, you know, also just the. The mental. I mean, like, you know, generations of that mental stress of the unknown every year. Every year, the unknown. I mean, yeah, I mean, I can see how beneficial this could be for, you know, some families. So beneficial.
• 26:46
  Speaker B: It has been. It's been wonderful to watch it because we faithfully pay them every June 14, I just made the third payment, and they know it's coming and they're counting on it. But it's still. It's still so enjoyable for me because I love all of these. All of these producers so much. But they'll go like, Ladonna, are we going to get paid again? This year. Of course you are. Yes. Yes. And is it going to be on time? Will we? Yes, you will. Because there's still a little of that uncertainty, you know, naturally.
• 27:18
  Speaker A: Can't believe it's going to happen.
• 27:20
  Speaker B: No, they can't believe it. And it keeps coming.
• 27:23
  Speaker A: That's just amazing. That's great. I just really love that you went, you know, yeah, here's a need. And, like, it's. It's like farmer first. Like, here's who has it. And we're so dependent on them. And I've seen Kansas do this, you know, like, say we are so dependent on agriculture. It's like you said, it's our bread basket. So what can we do to ensure that the farmer is going to remain economically sound while we reduce, you know, the use of water? It's vital for them, too, because. And it's this. It's the same thing with all of us. It's this, like, if you don't have water, you don't have ag, but if you don't have ag, you don't have an economy and you might as well not have water.
• 28:09
  Speaker B: That is right. And our landowners, they would tell you the following. Ladonna, I wanted to keep having water for domestic and livestock use. If I don't stop irrigating, I'm not going to have it.
• 28:19
  Speaker A: Right. Well, and, you know, what you've done is you've been able to help them get out of the cycle, because I will tell you knowing. So my husband and I farmed. We're both of us, both sides of the family on, you know, his side and my side. As long as anybody can remember, it's been farming, nothing else. And I, when my brother retires, there will be no one left in agriculture on both sides of our family. Both sides. Just, you know, my side, two sides, you know, and so. But I know when we had to get out of farming, we went through bankruptcy. What we. What happened to us is we could see that we needed to get out, and there was no really way to get out. You were going to lose so much, you know, that? You were like, how can we afford to get out? We're going to lose all of this. I mean, it's a vicious, vicious cycle. And then, you know, the bank is like, just take out more notes, just take out more money, go get more credit cards, you know, and. And finally, you know, we're at this place where, like, there. There's literally nothing to do, you know? And what. What I see y'all doing is because we could not have said, we're going to stop doing row crops and we're going to go to Rangeland. Because the bank would have been like, no, you're not, because you will not make enough money to pay us back what you owe us. You know? And so, I mean, farmers are not always making their own decisions. They're at the mercy of their lender a lot of times. And for sure we were. For sure we were. And so what you've done is you have. You've put some power back into their hands and given them another option. Another option, yes.
• 30:13
  Speaker B: And we made sure, too. And this is really important. When you give them the other option, be sure they still have the water they need. So we built that into the water. Right. Lease agreement. Right. So that they can have up to 20% of the water for livestock and for domestic use and even to maintain their irrigation wells in case they decide they do not want to stay in with us on this journey. Because, remember, it's voluntary. So if you get in it and you go, I think I made a big mistake, or this is just not what I wanted. So we still leave the door open for them.
• 30:53
  Speaker A: Wow.
• 30:53
  Speaker B: Yeah. That's important to do. And at the same time, what we are doing is we're paying them for 100% of the value of the water, but we're giving them 20%. Now, that's just unheard of. You wouldn't normally do that. You'd say, hey, we're paying you for 100%, we get 100%. But no, you must, again, keep that producer whole while we're doing that. We are transitioning them. Just know that we're working to help them transition. What do you want to do? How can we help you make this transition? We'll find the funding.
• 31:31
  Speaker A: Wow. So you're. You're actually, you know, we had someone on earlier that we were interviewing, and he worked for the Noble Institute and was talking about that there was a group of five or six that have different, you know, specialties, like ag economics, a range specialist and agronomist. I mean, all these different specialties that would go to farms and help them. Like what you're doing. Like, hey, here's all of these resources and all of this knowledge that's available. Let's look at what you've got and let's. Let's see what we can do. It sounds to me like that's kind of what you guys are, you know, doing. In some ways, yes.
• 32:08
  Speaker B: The long term solution is the conservation easement. And there I've got three about to go into one of those. But in the conservation easement, they'll still.
• 32:17
  Speaker A: Maintain 20% of the water on your conservation easements. Do you have a particular, or have you created a fund for your own easements or these NRCs?
• 32:26
  Speaker B: This is. Yeah, NRCS is funding half of it. And the Department of Defense. Repi, again, Repi is readiness and environmental protection integration program. Now, here's the amazing thing about them, though. The Department of Defense has been incredible in this effort. They're paying for all of the conservation easement acquisition costs for every one of these landowners.
• 32:51
  Speaker A: The DOD is.
• 32:53
  Speaker B: Yes, the DOD is. We're talking, you know, you've got your stewardship fee. You have to have your title insurance. You have to have your legal. Done so. Legal defense fund. You must set that up because we're using Texas agricultural land trust to do that work for us. Okay. We're mentoring. They're mentoring me because obviously, I don't have a background. And so we decided we'll just partner with Talt or they said, yes. Thank you, God, that they said, yeah. Yeah. So they said yes, and they're helping us do these easements. And they have a beautiful model in place with important acquisition costs already identified. But here we have a group that says, we don't want them to take a dime out of their pocket. We're going to pay for it. And that's Department of Defense, and it's through the Repi program. But I want to add, here's where the beauty comes in for the survival of the community, because that water, that 20%, our farmers don't need the full 20%. They only need about six to eight, maybe, for their needs on their land. What they're going to do is name their price to our private water utility to pull that water out.
• 34:10
  Speaker A: Okay. So they can turn around and sell whatever of that water. Wow.
• 34:14
  Speaker B: Yes. We will be selling to that utility who move that water down pipeline to get the water to the city and county areas in cannon. You have to have. You got to have this big plan in mind. The water can't forever stay in the ground, but you got to withdraw it slowly. You've got to withdraw it as needed and tap that water so that the community doesn't go without. But while you're doing that, you compensate the farmers so they make some more money on top of what they're already getting.
• 34:46
  Speaker A: So, devil's advocate, I'm sure you're familiar with what's going on with the muleshoe landgraab thing. So one of the. One of the comments, you know, I heard was how much, you know, CRP hurt the. When land went into CRP, it hurt the local economy. And I'd never heard that said before. I've never seen. I did go, like, home and spent some time googling, trying to find some research, and if anybody out there has them, I'd love to read it because I. I couldn't find anything that showed that. So what are you thinking about, like, farm labor, implement companies, you know, all kinds of insular ag businesses. What are y'all expecting to see? Are you trying to. Are you seeing any kind of negative impact or do you feel like you will eventually see some.
• 35:33
  Speaker B: I think that we've already experienced some negative pushback, even from those who relied on the feed for their cattle grown by these farmers. We've seen that. We've seen some pushback from the dairy industry specifically, you know, concerned about it. It does, you know, there is this systemic impact. There is definitely, but this is a slice of the pie of the bigger picture of how we went about getting needed water reserve. It's not every irrigation landowner in the entire area. It's. It's a concentrated area. So, yes, but, yes, we will see. I think. I'm certain we will see more impact down the road. Even if you look at Farmers Electric Co op as we shut down an irrigation well.
• 36:29
  Speaker A: Yeah, right. That's what I'm looking at. Yes. That's what I'm thinking, too, is like, well, and into that. Into, like, the loss of that dividend for that. That farmer, that's a whole nother, you know, thing that you have to add into the economics of them turning that water off. That's.
• 36:47
  Speaker B: Yes, this is.
• 36:48
  Speaker A: It's a lot to think about. I mean, a lot to think about. And it is. Yeah. And, boy, kudos to them to, to have the fortitude and to, to be willing to do. To do what they, what they've done. It's. It's. It's so amazing. You know, one of my favorite quotes is there's farmer that grew up on the plains was like, he just had to be gritty, and he kept one eye on his neighbor and his practices, and he adopted the ones that worked because if he didn't change, he wasn't going to survive. And, and I'm like, I think about that so often and think, you know, that is still somewhere in our DNA, and we're gonna have to. We got to pull on. We've got to pull from that fortitude, pull from that. Those, you know, of our ancestors that went through the dust bowl. And we got to say, you know, we want better for our kids and in the next generation. And what's that going to look like?
• 37:48
  Speaker B: I agree.
• 37:49
  Speaker A: It's, it's, it's hard, hard decisions to make. But you have certainly, you have certainly found a way to make a hard decision more palatable.
• 37:57
  Speaker B: Yes. And I think we all need to work together. This is. I don't want to work in silos. We can't be in silos. We have to help each other solve this tremendous challenge in front of us.
• 38:09
  Speaker A: Yes, we do. We do. And that's, that is what, that's one of the things I have. We've been, you know, part of the New Mexico produced water consortium for a while. And I absolutely like Mike Hightower is, he's just a fantastic leader. And, you know, it's not about when you go talk to him about something. It's not about how much money you're going to bring to the table. It's not about that. No. It's about we have a problem. Do you want to be a part of fixing that problem, then come on over here. And it's not about my ego and who's going to look good and who's going to win what? Nothing. It is about a problem that has to be fixed. And I just, you know, really, once again, say, I really admire what you are doing there in New Mexico, what you're doing, what Mike's doing, what happens at New Mexico state. I mean, I'm just, just some great and gritty people on that, on that side of our border.
• 39:04
  Speaker B: Well, we really appreciate that. And we appreciate our neighbors in the Texas panhandle. We do. I just have the highest regard for you as our neighbors. I consider you family. I meet somebody like Lacey, I'm like, instant reward.
• 39:19
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
• 39:22
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 39:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 39:23
  Speaker B: And talking with you, you know, you're talking my language. I hear your passion in your voice, just like I know it exists in my being. We have to be passionate people about solving or addressing. What does it look like? What can we do? What if new technology, you know, comes in later? We're going to tap that, too. So we have to stay on top of our game.
• 39:46
  Speaker A: Exactly. And, you know, I think one of the things I really struggled with is, you know, you have to be willing to be the one that is, that nobody wants to hear you talk about it anymore.
• 39:55
  Speaker B: Right.
• 39:57
  Speaker A: You're going to have to be, be the one that people are like, you know, when you're, you're around with the family. And the family's like eye rolling. That's me. You know, that's me.
• 40:05
  Speaker B: Yes. That's me, too. Blowing the whistle.
• 40:08
  Speaker A: I'm just always blowing the whistle. Yes, yes, exactly.
• 40:13
  Speaker B: So beating the drum all the time because we beat the drum.
• 40:17
  Speaker A: Exactly. Yes. We don't want people to forget there's too many things, and I think, especially now, there's so many things that distract us, and there are problems all over the world. It is so easy for us to overlook our closest neighbors, you know, and, and forget that we have responsibilities, you know, to the people that are here and sharing the land with us.
• 40:40
  Speaker B: Yes, and we. That's beautifully stated. We have to remember the land is shared with everyone. The water is shared with everyone. We all. We all need it. We rely upon it for our survival. And we're going to all meet with opposition. I know, because I'm experiencing it daily. And at the same time, we have to be risk takers. Don't you find that to be true?
• 41:05
  Speaker A: No, that's. That is exactly what it is. You know, we have to take a risk socially. You know, we have to take that risk. We have to take the risk of doing something different. And, you know, the entire society has to do that with the farmer. And how do we educate and make certain that, you know, in a city the size of Lubbock, you know, that the 300,000 people that are here understand that they are standing on the shoulders of agriculture. You know, that all of our other economy is standing on the shoulders of this one, you know, base. And we've got to find ways to do what you are doing, you know, and one, to me, it seems like what y'all done a great job of, you know, the people are aware of this, and, and I. That, of course, I'm sure it helps when you have, like, 19 miles away, you have a city that don't have water, but we have little communities around us that don't have water. Thank you so much. Is there anything you want to say before we close out?
• 42:11
  Speaker B: Oh, the only thing I want to say is thank you so much for the opportunity to share our story because we are excited to share it, and we want to help others replicate the model in ways that work, where they live and breathe every day. So we're ready to do that. We're not holding on to it. We're not charging anybody anything. We just want to give freely of what we've learned and share with others who are facing the same dilemma.
• 42:38
  Speaker A: So thank you so much. Thank you so much. And thank you for your courage. And, you know, next time you see that group of farmers, you tell them, I said, man, they're on my list of heroes.
• 42:50
  Speaker B: For what they will tell them.
• 42:52
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 42:52
  Speaker B: Yeah. There are my heroes. Those guys.
• 42:55
  Speaker A: So, thanks again, Donna, for joining us today, and we look forward to the next episode. Bye.