Latest / The People Run Podcast / #62 He Quit His Job to Chase Sub-2:10 & Race the Best | Joey Whelan

Transcript

#62 He Quit His Job to Chase Sub-2:10 & Race the Best | Joey Whelan · The People Run Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Joey, you went full-time running.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: You were working, you ran a 209 marathon, you representing the team USA.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk about that because I see a lot of those thinglets.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Representing USA, OTQ.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: When did you think, you know what?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I can I can run really fast here and represent and go all in on this running journey, if you will.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, a lot of it was my wife believing me and what I was doing and everything.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_04: And um because I mean I was when I was trying to work and try to do everything, and you kind of the more years you put in, and I started plateauing with uh some of my performances, and you realize that you can't just get away with running like 50 to 70 miles a week and trying to compete with guys I'm trying to compete with, and I'm expecting like results from not like doing the same stuff, and it's just like all right, like I'm I have a small window in my prime right now.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_04: What what can I do?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_04: And my wife kind of convinced me to just go all in, like we're fine financially, so look, let's do it for a couple of years and see what progress can be made.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I pretty much just went from running like averaging in like the 215s for the marathon to breaking 210 just by uh running full time and yeah getting putting in the work.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of miles, but you know, full time it makes sense until you said, like, when did you know I wanna go after or like run with the best of the best?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: What was that moment?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_04: I mean I don't know if there's a like a moment, like you definitely learned the more that you're in the sport that there's levels to this.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it can be easy to uh for me to just stay at some races that I know I'm gonna win.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_04: But I do want to push myself and do like major marathons that I could possibly win, or possibly not win, like Chicago.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: Like I'm doing Chicago in the fall, and it's like I want to see how I stack up against the other top Americans.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_04: So like, but I definitely use like a lot of marathons as like uh bridging the gap of confidence because I feel like you do gain a lot of confidence from running the smaller marathons.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_04: Like I did uh like before I ran 209, I did Indianapolis marathon and ran uh 212 there and one and got a course record, and I just used that momentum and ran CIM a month later.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Let's take it back a little bit.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Before like when you were doing the marathons, were were you always into running?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like at what point did you start kicking up to even just the 70 miles?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so like after college, so I ran at Syracuse University.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_04: I took a little bit of time off of running because I was I was like a little burned out from running in general, just NCAA system, and there's not really much of like that much incentive to run post-college, and everyone's getting jobs, and uh so I I took a little bit of time off, and then it was gonna be my 26th birthday, and I was like, I haven't run a marathon yet, I should try to run a marathon, uh, being 26 years old.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_04: So then I jumped in my hometown marathon, Buffalo, New York, and that was when I first like tasted it, and I was like, oh, this is like this is different than the shorter races.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I think I could actually be pretty good at this, and uh just stuck with it, and then just I eventually got to a point where I was like, all right, like I went from 225 and I got down to 213, and then I just stayed at like 213 to 215 for like four years, and I'm like, all right, I have one more shot at trying to like be good.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_04: What else do I need to do?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_04: And it just like sometimes you just gotta push the chips all in, and like that's what I did, and like was able to just peel off time.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: When you were doing these 215s, you know, hovering over 215, like you have full-time work, no?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so a lot of it too was hard because uh when I wasn't when I was out in Texas, I was working on like branch construction, so I was working a lot with like chainsaws and just doing a lot of like manual a lot, a lot of manual labor and was getting strong that way.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_04: But I was always thinking of it as it helping me, like, and it was it was helping me, like there was like a strength that I was getting that I can't replicate now.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_04: It's like you gotta I gotta do like very like being like farm strong is is different than going to the weight room and lift it lifting average weights and stuff.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_04: Even though I was running like 50 to 70 miles a week, like I was strong in other ways.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: How'd you manage 70 miles?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that's a lot of miles while working, you know, random saws and fun stuff.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how'd you manage that?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Doing all those uh long runs and run 50, 70 miles while working and balancing work at the same time.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_04: Uh it was definitely difficult.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I was definitely doing it because I I started work at 7 a.m.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_04: and I would go to 5 p.m.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_04: And uh I would run after work because I didn't want to run before because I didn't want to be tired for my job or like start at a deficit.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm like, I'll wait till after and do my run then.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_04: But when you're in Texas, a lot of times that you're running like in over 100 degree weather.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_04: So it was just like slogging through, and it's just like you don't know whether your times are gonna like convert to anything or like what, but uh but they they eventually do.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_04: It's like everything's kind of becomes more effort-based.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, you you meet like a lot of interesting characters working out and on ranches, and like you definitely learn a lot from the people out there.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_04: There's there's tons of characters out there that like I drew like a lot of inspiration from.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like one person that comes to mind is this guy named Jim Widener.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_04: He had this like massive ranch that he had to he had to sell because of like taxes got so much, and he was in his he was like in his 80s years old.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_04: And uh he worked on his ranch every day.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like he didn't need to.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_04: He had sold his ranch, but the b the person that bought his ranch said, you could live on the ranch until you die.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_04: But this guy would this guy would still uh work on his ranch every day.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_04: Like he would he had a tractor and he had a tire and he would drag the tire and like till up rocks, and he had this rock fence and he that went around his whole property.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_04: And every every day he would like put a rock in there.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_04: And this guy's like eighty this guy's like eight years old, and he would always like work the chainsaw and like wood chipper, and then he had like a terrible accident.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um like right before I met him.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like this is like pretty much how I met him.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_04: He was running the chainsaw and like feeding the wood chipper, and the wood chipper caught his arm and took his arm.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_04: And there's no uh there's like no service out there.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_04: So he had to tourniquet he tourniqueted his arm, uh, and then had to go through two gates in a four-wheeler, had to go through two gates, and then drive an hour and a half to the hour and a half to the hospital.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_04: And then I got a phone call saying that he needed work on his ranch, like a few months later, and he had one arm.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_04: And he's like, I need help with my ranch with my wood chipper.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I go to the wood chipper, and the thing's all stained with blood.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_04: And he's like, he's like, he, he's, and then he's like, I need these trees gone.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_04: He's like, we're finishing this job.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_04: And like stuff like that.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_04: It was like very like, I'm like, okay, like you're the most badass person I know.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_04: And like he like he's like, he's like wanting to help me.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, Mr.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_04: Widener, can you not like feed the wood chipper anymore?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_04: Because he was feeding it with his other arm.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like this this machine's gonna kill you.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you're gonna lose the other one.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_04: But you run into people like that and you go, Man, like, I ain't shit.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Does that show up to your races?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: You think of him like, man, I gotta finish this race.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's this one guy, you know.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_04: And it was funny because he would always watch like whenever there was like a live stream of my races on Facebook, he's like, send me a link.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_04: Because you always wanted to like watch and stuff.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_04: But he he passed away a few years ago, but uh he's definitely was a like a huge inspiration for me.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome, man.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: And shout out to him, rest in peace.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you do this for a few years, right?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: You run 215, you run a ranch.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: At some point, the wife convinces you is like, hey, let's go all in.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know you gotta do more mileage and and see what you what what's your thought going into this, like full-time racing?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_04: Uh like I definitely like believed I could do it, and it was just setting up the right opportunities to do it.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um it's because it's certainly hard because you gotta like in the marathon, you have to get everything right.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like you have to um like you could be you could be really fit and then the weather could be crap.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_04: Like, like I was going for 210 at Berlin.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like I wanted that, that was the goal, like when I essentially quit my job and was like, all right, we're going all in for the Berlin marathon.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_04: And then Berlin ends up being 80 degrees.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: And it was like, shoot, and that was in September, and then I then I signed up for CIM, and then uh right before then was Indianapolis, but like CIM was my next shot essentially that I was gonna take a shot at 210.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_04: But you just you've got to have the right weather day.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes you gotta have people uh with you, and like there's just so many little things that have to go right in order to like hit it on the day.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: You quit your job and you sign up.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: If I get this right, was this all in the same year?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Berlin, Indy, and CIM?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_04: How are you recovering, my guy?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I I actually recover, like that's what I discovered after like my first marathon.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_04: Is like everyone's like walking downstairs weird and stuff, but I'm like, man, I'm really not that sore.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's just I'm like, it's just something I have, I guess.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_04: Like I always feel good after a hard long run.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it takes me it takes me longer to recover from like doing like 200 meters, 200 intervals on the track than it does to run like a hard 20 miles.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_04: So like that's why I think the marathon is so much different than even like the half marathon.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like the half marathon's more like 10k specific than it is marathon specific.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_04: So like I'm just able to rebound, and I just like I've been doing so many of them a year that the more I do, the like the easier they kind of feel.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_04: Or like in a s in a way.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_04: Cause then I'm like going through a lot of like the motions every single time.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm always trying like every marathon is like a different opportunity to try something new.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like they say, don't do anything new on race day, but there's always a different variable that's gonna happen, like uh with whether whether you're gonna get like fluid bottles, uh, what nutrition you're gonna try.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_04: Uh yeah, so just all sorts of variables.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's fun to like test everything out and kind of really tweak on what works best.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: When you do a marathon and you finish, like do you just feel good?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do you go run the next day?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: I typically I typically will run the next day.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Impressive.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_04: I've been doing so like some of my marathons that I've done um like after indie in this uh this pat like a few months ago I did Buffalo, uh, and I've been doing a cooldown afterwards.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I do feel like that's uh made me feel better.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like people don't cool down after marathons, but I usually run like a mile or two after like if I run a mile or two after a marathon, it helps like start the recovery process.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_04: The first few steps suck, but after you get out and are are actually moving, I feel like it it helps the legs cool down the engine.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with you there.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not running near your level, but like my last two marathons, just by default, I did do indie last year, funny enough.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um when I did Chicago, somehow the way it was set up, I walked a lot.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: And those two last marathons, I recovered a lot faster.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_04: I I feel like anything to get moving, like I think I feel like maybe the best thing would probably be like swimming.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, for sure.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_04: Or something, but yeah, just like moving around.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_04: I just I don't think like sitting down the whole like the next day is gonna help you, or like laying down all day is not gonna help you.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_04: I think just getting them getting the legs moving is gonna make you feel better.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Joy back to Berlin.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is the first race as of you going all in.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a full-time runner out here, and you go, damn, it's gonna be 80 plus degrees.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: At that point you go, man, hey, uh, are we making a mistake here going all in on running?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like what the hell was going on?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, it's I mean, I felt like I was making the correct, like I wanted to make the correct adjustments, but it's just hard because like Berlin was like mid-September and we're coming from summer, so you are technically like heat acclimated.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm like, I'm like, I don't really know.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_04: I wasn't really sure how much to actually adjust for.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_04: Then uh so I I thought I I adjusted for like maybe like eight seconds a mile, and then uh it just wasn't enough.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_04: But the big thing I learned from Berlin was um even when things weren't going well in the race, like I was like blowing up I was only blowing up to running like five tw like five twenties like high.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, man, like I ran 218 that day, but I was like I ran only 520s, like it wasn't like I was running in the six minute pace and like it was a complete blow up.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_04: And that's when I was like I was like, if I get like half that temperature, if I get like 40 something degrees, a perfect day, I know I'm not gonna blow up to 520.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like I'll I'll certainly only blow up to like 5'10.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_04: So it was a big that was the big learning thing.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like even though that one didn't go right, I was like, I could definitely blame it on the weather and like give a ton of credit to the people that ran super well that day and really prepared well.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_04: Like I like I know Sebastian Solway, he won and ran 202, and I think that's the best marathon performance anyone's like that's I think that's still better than his sub two hour in London in terms of he ran that second half by himself and he won by like over he won by over four minutes and he didn't have a single pacer with him that second half.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_04: And he ran 202.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's like it was just incredible.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_04: Like you see guys like that, and you're like, it just doesn't seem like weather affects the good guys.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_04: That's like that that next level is like what I'm learning is like like I'll have I'll run a race, like I like right before Berlin, I practiced uh international travel, and I went to Antrim, uh Antrim Coast, half marathon in Northern Ireland.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_04: And uh it was pretty windy.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_04: It's along the it's along the coast of Northern Ireland, and uh it's out and back, and I could feel like the wind at my back, and I'm like, man, this is gonna be brutal on like coming back home to the finish.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_04: And we just had like this headwind that was it felt pretty bad, but I'm like, a guy still broke 60 minutes, like it just didn't affect him.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's like I'm like, that's what the next level is.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like these guys aren't dwelling on like the bad weather, and they don't like let it get to them at all.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_04: So I gotta like change my mindset a little bit going into these races moving forward.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_04: So what do you think though?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_04: That was that was like a big help.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think that is?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh, you know, you're you're seeing it and you're learning it in real time right now.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now that you're lining up with some elites, like the variable of nothing affecting them.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you think it is that next step to get there?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like you hinted at mental, but is it something else as well?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_04: It's like yeah, some like prep stuff.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's certainly like not avoiding, like if it's windy out, if it's like windy out outside, like not catering the route to just be like a bunch of loops, like do a workout that's entirely into the wind.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_04: Like do a three miles, three mile interval that's a hundred percent into the wind.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_04: Like, don't make your training to make it look pretty on Strava.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_04: Make it like look pretty uh tough in your head.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, you want to make it uh so just like adjusting that and also doing like some of the extra stuff.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_04: Like I've been adding like doing sauna protocol, like doing that 10 days out before, or like two weeks out before like a key marathon is like really hitting the sauna and getting adapted to that that way.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_04: There's just all these little things, all these little two percent things that can help you in the long run.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: How often are you doing the sauna?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: What's that look like?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_04: So I've just started doing that in my last build.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_04: I just did grandma's marathon, and I did that in the final two weeks where I f I do my run, I finish my run, and I try to immediately get into the sauna.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_04: So I like run from my gym and then just hop in the sauna for I try to do uh 20 minutes, but some days like the sauna, like I don't there's no like temperature reading.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_04: Some days it's just brutal.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like I don't know, like I don't know how I I see some people are like in it for like 30 minutes, like not at my gym, but like I see on Strava, people people are like 30 minutes sauna, and I'm like, I would die if I did that.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_04: It's like I'm I'm trying to get the bare minimum, like 15 minutes, and I do that like uh in the two weeks before I try to get in it like eight times.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: So like four times a week.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Four times a week, gotcha.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Joey, as you win full time and running, and you run 209, or you're running faster, you beat your plateau, if you will, and you're running internationally too.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: I saw like there was a hamburg marathon as well, and uh like well, first off, let's start there.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: How do you pick your races now?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now that you can just the world of your oyster.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I I mean I wish I wish the world was more of my my oyster.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I thought that a lot of barrier to entry to a lot of races was like, hey, if you run sub 210, you could get into any race that you want, and that certainly hasn't been the case.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: So like I tried I tried getting in the original plan was uh so how I map it out is my wife gets 11 weeks vacation, so we kind of pick out her vacation based on some races that I may want to do.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_04: So like a year in advance, we knew that I wanted to try to do the London marathon.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I thought that the barrier of entry to that was sub 210.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_04: And then I emailed them and got rejected of running in that.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_04: But we had already taken we had already taken the vacation that week.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm like, all right, what other marathon is that day that is like really competitive and uh has pacers and is flat and is like the weather's reliable, and it ended up being Hamburg, and Hamburg let me in their field.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so like that's how I picked out that one.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_04: And then I kinda so I pick out like uh my spring one first, and like that's my key race, and then my fall one, I I pick out two that I'm like interested in doing, and then so I'm really targeting three marathons for the year, and then I sprinkle in the other marathons as more of like a training to try something new in those ones.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_04: But the ones that I'm like really dialed for were like are Hamburg, Chicago, and then maybe Valencia or CIM.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_04: I haven't decided uh my December one yet, but yeah, so I have like the three key ones that I want to do.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: What allows you to do so many of them?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: We mentioned three key ones, but like if we look at them, we'll get into in a bit, like just your recent race.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: You've had like four or five races already this year, marathon.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like um, what what what allows you to do that?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we mentioned recovery earlier, but is it mileage?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is just fueling.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_04: I think the I think the mileage helps, uh genetics helps.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: The I the new the new running shoes.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like the new running shoes are are are really helpful and something that's a little unique that I do is uh like days after workouts I'll run in like a super shoe, like an old pair of super shoes, uh that are like just a little bouncier and give me a little little more give and helps me run a little help helps me run a little faster.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_04: But a lot of these marathons that I'm doing uh as sort of like a workout per se, like I build up to like if you add up like the warm-up and cool down to me doing like the Buffalo Marathon this year, for instance, I'm hitting a 30-mile day that day.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_04: And then when I go into my taper uh to my keep, like when I ran Buffalo Marathon, I ran 108 miles that week with the marathon.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_04: So I think just putting in all that work, and then when I do taper, I feel good.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_04: And like the taper is more of like my down period.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_04: Then like I run the marathon and then afterwards I I feel pretty good because I'm coming, still coming off of a taper and just one hard effort in about like really a few weeks.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like if you think about it.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_04: So it's just I don't know, so like it's just something I have always been able to do.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_04: Like growing up, like I remember doing uh track meets when I was like in high school, like my coach, because like the when you're a distance runner, you get stuck doing the 3200, the 1600, the four by eight, and uh the open eight, and you do that every meet.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_04: So it's just like it's just I think I think that, and then you do that Tuesday, and then you do that on the weekend.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_04: So you do you do that Tuesday, and then you do that like Saturday, and you do that every week for four years, and then you go to college, and then you're just constantly in the NCAA, the NCAA system, you like there's so much racing.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_04: Like you're racing like a bunch of times in cross-country, indoor track, you're racing every weekend, and then it just bleeds into out.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_04: Like, there's not much down period, and there is burp, there is burnout from it.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_04: Of course.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_04: But that's why you're gonna see, like, I think you'll you'll start to see a lot more really good collegiate runners turning to the marathon and being able to do more than just two marathons a year because they've been through that system of just race, race, race, race, race, race, race, race, race.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, I think when I think of the future of running and seeing some of these like co hawkers of the world and all these guys, when they get a few, five more years older.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna see, you know.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like some of them are gonna jump.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh the time.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_04: I'm real excited to see like some of the top Americans in the track make the transitions to the road and start doing it young.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like guys like Connor Mance, like he made the transition early.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, I think we need a little bit more of the guys to start doing that.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_04: But I think I think we'll see it in the coming years.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_04: There's certainly a running boom that's happening right now.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you see, like how hard it is to get into like the London marathon.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_04: They're like, like they made it a double race, and it seemed like more people got rejected.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and it's like New York City, New York Marathon, it's hard to get into.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_04: It's like we tried doing the Fall Myth Road race, like a group of my friends, uh, a group of my friends this summer, and everyone got rejected.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, it's like, shoot, it's like this is pretty pretty popular now.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Joey, you're crushing my dreams here.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because what I thought was, all right, I just gotta get faster and get into the the time where like I just get in based off of my time.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Are you telling me you have a hard time getting in as well?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I'm screwed here.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_04: I think I think I could I could probably get into like some of like the uh the ones in the US.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_04: If my friend if my friends aren't doing it, then I'm not doing it.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_04: If we're all gonna do it as a group, I'm just yeah.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like that that's why I wanted to like do some of these.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_04: Like, there's some destination races I want to do, but if my friends aren't getting in, then I'm I don't want to do it.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're taking a flight, so it's not really I could what are some of those destination races?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I mean, I wanted to do I London was is a big one on my list to do.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'm knocking out Chicago this year, this fall.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_04: That's a fun one, yeah.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um I may knock out Valencia in December, is a big one on my list.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um I really want to do Sydney, the Sydney marathon.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_04: Uh my wife and I did our honeymoon there last year.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_04: So and we but really enjoyed the city itself, and I like how the course is a little challenging.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, I feel like there's a yeah, there's like a I can't think of any more off the top of my head, but I'm sure I have a bunch.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we all do.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, I I one of my big goals is to run all the marathon majors.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_04: And I want to run it at uh up like a pro level.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like you're trying, I'm trying to knock it all down, but it's very it's it's very challenging.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_04: I'm trying to get fast enough to get into the pro fields, but like even like this year for Chicago, I'm in like the American or like the developmental program.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I start two minutes behind the pros, which is kind of a which which is kind of a bummer, but we're still running the same day, and I I'll still be able to compete.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you'll be able to chase down a few tour tours there like the later.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's that's what I'm thinking is gonna happen.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_04: So at least that's at least that's what I dream about every day I'm going out there, is uh a lot of people thinking because of because I think Boston gave people kind of like a false sense of uh what what they can what is actual possible because I think Boston was pretty aided this year with like the wind, the weather and stuff.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_04: So I think people are gonna have a lot of some false confidence, and I'm that's what I'm banking on.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: So far in your running, what's been the biggest breakthrough?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: I want to talk about some of these races you've done just this year.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Austin, you came in first, you broke a cross record, you did Hamburg, which we spoke about, you did Buffalo, hometown race for you first, you did Grammys.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: We just talked about it six places.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_04: That's poor.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_04: So I would say, like, what I what like I always try to take away like what I learned from like each one.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_04: So like Austin Austin was kind of uh thrown on my schedule a little later than uh it was planned, but not like super planned out.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um so I joined it kind of late because we had already had my wife and I, we had a ski trip planned to Montana, and I was a little worried because I'm like, and then plus I'm training in western New York, which gets historically a lot of snow.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm like, all right, I need to kind of like do a rate, have a race on my schedule that holds me accountable to like put in the miles, because most of these miles are gonna have to be done on a treadmill in order to do it safely.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_04: Because I could run outside and be a tough guy, but I'm 35 years old.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm pretty clumsy.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_04: I could fall and like I've already I have two screws in my right knee from falling, so I don't want to fall and uh have any problems.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_04: So I did, I had Austin on my schedule, but and I still went skiing that week before.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm like, I'm like, I'm gonna do that vacation and I'm just gonna I'm gonna do the race and the vacation as like I'm not changing anything on vacation.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like I'm still gonna go out and get drinks with my wife.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_04: We're still gonna, I'm still gonna ski every day.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, but then at the end of the week, I'm going to run a marathon and like see how this goes.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_04: So it was like it was a fun like little experiment because I ended up feeling really good.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_04: And like that's when I came to the realization that I'm like, well, as long as like you're happy, you'll do pretty well.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_04: So I was like, I mean, I did put in the work, I did put in a lot of work over the winter, like yeah, uh in the weeks leading up.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_04: But the biggest takeaway, I was like, man, if as long as you're like in a good mental space, you could still have fun before the race.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_04: Just don't get hit by anyone skiing.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_04: I know there's a little bit more risk with that, but I I like learned that like yeah, just have fun and be in a good spot mentally.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_04: Then um, then the next one I did was Hamburg.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_04: Hamburg Marathon is in Germany.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_04: It was a paced race, so I was like, I got really fit after Austin, and my biggest takeaway from Hamburg was uh not to trust a pacer.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, which is funny because it's like the pacers were supposed to go out in 64 minutes through uh halfway, and we ended up going like because we were trying to run 208 pace.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_04: And then I'm like pretty I'm pretty relaxed in the beginning of the race, and I'm like, all right, like there's a designator pacer for our group.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_04: Uh we're gonna start off, the groups are gonna form, and everything's gonna be okay.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_04: And then the first K was like pretty quick, and I was like, all right, like let them go, because everyone was like sprinting off the line, and I'm like, I've run 30 marathons.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, I'm not gonna sprint like right off the line, and they formed a gap on me, and I'm like, all right, they'll dial it back because they'll want to like run the actual pace.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_04: And they never like came back.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_04: They went through they went through 10k in like 2950, which was like 205 or 206 pace.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_04: And then I just and they went through half in 63 minutes, and I'm like, I went through this whole training block think like thinking like you're just gonna sit on a pacer and just like you're just gonna ride a train through 30k and then you're just gonna grind it out the last 12k.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_04: But I had to run that entire race by myself.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm just like, all right, like I need to not go into races with like an expectation of thinking like this is how it's gonna go.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you got to just be ready to be like, if there's a pacer, there's a pacer that's gonna help me.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_04: If it if they're there, it's good.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_04: If it's not, well, like I'll be fine on my own.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_04: Because it I was like mentally kind of panicking uh throughout the race, being like, all right, why aren't these guys coming back?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_04: Why aren't they doing their job?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_04: And it's just like, no, like you need to focus on yourself right now and uh be in a better mindset of it, and then yeah.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of goes back to what you said earlier, as far as like what you're learning at at this level now, um just being ready for whatever, right?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, the elements, the pacer, whoever.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_04: And then like uh then I did in the spring, I did Buffalo Marathon as more of like uh I was gonna help a friend get an Olympic trials qualifier.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_04: So I was gonna try to run 5'10 mile pace, and then I was gonna pick it up at the end because I did want my uh course record.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_04: The course record at Buffalo was like 215.59.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_04: So that's exactly Olympic trials pace.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_04: So I was like, let's let's go and get that.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_04: And then the bud my buddy who I was pacing, Scott, uh tweaked his Achilles so that he wasn't gonna run.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_04: So then I was like, all right, well, I still kinda uh have to run this because in order for me to get into Buffalo, I had to like raise a thousand dollars for like a charity.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm like, I already got people to donate money for me for me to run the to run this race.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like I'm just gonna run it still.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's still in a good spot for me to train for grandmas.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_04: And uh I was like, all right, I'll just go out with whoever's running the half marathon, because the half marathon runs along the same as the uh as the marathoners.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I was I just ran with the top half marathon people and uh I just ended up running steady the entire way, but ended up running the course record like 213 there and had good momentum.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_04: But what the mistake I made uh because this was four weeks out from grandma's marathon, this is when I was like, all right, I'm gonna capitalize and like really push it, and like like I I added more miles like immediately following the race, and then uh like added more workouts.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_04: I think I like in a seven-day span ended up running like 135 miles.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_04: That's plus like the marathon, and like I was doing like double threshold, and I was I ended up just doing too much, and I tweaked my hamstring like a few weeks before grandma's marathon, so I had to miss like ten like uh two two of my key workouts for grandma's marathon.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_04: But uh it all ended up working out.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_04: Like I I I didn't hit my goal at grandma's of getting podium, but I was six seconds off of it, so or like within ten seconds, and with things not going right, I was still able to like write the ship and get healthy in time to race it.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Joy, what separates a 230, 220 marathoner from a sub-210 marathoner?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh what separates I uh I mean the paces are are pretty fast.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_04: Well like what is like a 230 marathon mile pace?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know that off the top of your head?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: 220ish, I want to say, somewhere around there?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, maybe a little slower than that.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh hold on.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: We can find out 540.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: 540, 543.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean that's close to like that's like f like 50 seconds off of like the paces that I'm running.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_04: I mean I do think it comes down to like time and budgeting your energy like throughout the day, because uh I feel like you only have so much like bandwidth to like do everything.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like when you have if like if you have like a family, a job, and running and like you still have to balance like sleep, nutrition.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_04: Because the big the big thing I've done too, like what I've noticed with like doing the higher mileage is was is how much food I have to eat.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_04: And like you always hear that like you have to eat a lot of food, but you have to eat a lot of food when you're not hungry.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_04: So like that's the hard part is like eating like two lunches when you don't want to eat the second lunch, and you're like forcing down a turkey sandwich just to get the calories because you're like, my body needs it, and I know it needs it, so I just have to force it down because I am at a I'm at a deficit.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_04: So we need to like put this in because this like calories are energy.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: And how bad does it affect you?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that's a lesson you learned while you were eating more and ramping up my is like how bad does it affect you when in the early days when you were like, Yeah, I'm not too hungry, I must get this, I'm gonna have the one lunch.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I've had like a ton of like I had a like a lot of stress fractures.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like I've gotcha I've had 10 stress fractures before.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like I've had a stress stress fracture both my femurs one twice, both my tibias, my foot, my sacrum, and my back twice.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_04: So like I think I think I cut I was probably more so of like a nutrition thing and uh footwear thing too, and just strength in general.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Talking about your races, I've seen your erases, you you close pretty fast on some of them.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think one you said you close your 5k in one of your fastest.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, practice that, like fast kick towards the end of your training.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I'll do that in I'll I've started doing it more in my training of doing uh the pickup at the end of like a long run.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_04: So like uh maybe like a three to five mile pickup after running steady.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_04: So I'll do a lot of uh steady, like when I'm doing my quality long runs, um they are all really quality.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_04: Like I will run like five, five like 30 pace, five thirty to five forty pace for like 20 miles, then do my pickup.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_04: In my pickups, I always try to make them like a progression, like I'm building into it.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_04: So I'll be like, all right, my pickup, I'm gonna do 515 down to five down to 445, and then each mile cut down like five like seven to eight seconds each mile, and then like have to be like and it's a really good thing to control patience because I will wanna like when I first start my pickup, I'll feel good and look down at my watch because I'll have it like split to uh the auto lap or whatever, so I could like see the actual paces I'm running, and I'll be running like low five minutes.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, nope, you gotta push it back.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_04: Cause if you if you don't want to go over that edge, and I'm like, each mile, if you want to make them progression to do it correctly, you've got to cut down.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm like, each mile, you're gonna earn your next mile.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_04: So I was like, just earn another mile to do the progression.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_04: So as soon as I didn't wouldn't progress, that's when the workout would end sometimes.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: And then just adding those to like, yeah, a lot of my build-ups have seemed to really help.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: How much of racing would you say in your experience is fitness versus the patience?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_04: Uh a lot of it is patience because I do pick I do pick my battles when it comes to races.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like like I said earlier, like although I run eight or maybe nine marathons a year, there's only three of them that I'm really focused on.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_04: The other ones I'm kind of testing different things out with whether I'm testing things out with workouts beforehand or things actually during the race.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_04: So it's patience of like having control in some of those marathons to be like, hey, you like you're good to just enjoy this.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like at Austin Marathon this year, like I once I knew I had the win at like at mile like 22, it was nice because then I was like, all right, you could coast now, like you're good.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_04: Like the win is done.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_04: You should still be able to get the course record if you just run 520 pace, like just really trying to enjoy it.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_04: Because a lot of these marathons, like, they are so hard.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like you you feel you like when you go when you go to the well, like after Berlin, like when I ran 218, it was 80 degrees.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_04: I was in my hotel room just shaking, shivering in a blanket, and like it was miserable for like hours.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, that sucks.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like, like, like so many of them suck that I want to make some of them feel good.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_04: So it's nice to be able to like coast some of them towards the end and just really enjoy them.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: What do you find yourself practicing in some of these non-A races, if you will?
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like you mentioned some of it, like it could be the workout, it could be the fueling um shoes, I'm assuming.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so uh but I have been sticking with uh just one shoe right now, just because I really like the fast R3s, yeah, the Puma fast R3s.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but in training I've been rotating different uh I I rotate a bunch of different brands and stuff.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_04: Gotcha that I've that I've found to be helpful.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: What's a typical training week look like?
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: You talked about your colleague long run session.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: What was the rest of the week look like?
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_04: So I build kind of everything based off the long run.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_04: So it kind of depends what uh what block I'm doing, but I have recently been doing more of the the double threshold workouts.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_04: So I would call it more of like a double workout where I I do like in the morning, I'll do like five by six minute off of a minute, and then I'll come back in the afternoon and do 10 by 3 minute off a minute, and that way I get an hour of work that's separate.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_04: So I'll get like uh 12 miles of volume, but uh it's split into two different sessions, so it like helps me recover to get ready for my long run.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_04: So I could do like like if I were to do a 12 12 by a mile, yeah, that would that would kind of wreck me.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_04: But when I split it up, when I split it up into a double workout, then I feel better.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_04: But then my other my other days, like when I'm in the thick of marathon training, I'll try to always get like two hours a day.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_04: So it's typically 80 minutes in the morning, 40 minutes.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: minutes in the evening.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_04: Gotcha.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: Just pure easy, I'm assuming.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_04: Just pure easy.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm like not like yeah.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_04: I'm going like f like after like I typically because I've run so many years, I kind of just know like if I'm feeling good, I'm just below seven minute mile pace.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_04: If I'm like still recovering, I'm like just below 730.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I can't I kind of know uh how I'm recovering based on am I below seven minute pace and like my my heart rate too and like keeping my heart rate like 130 or below on my easy days.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_04: What do you do for uh recovery you know uh uh sleep I'm sure nasty yeah sleep sleep sleep is the is the big one that I've I'm I mean sleep isn't always like the easiest thing like you think it is but uh you the more the more you do the more you're consistent at it the better you get at it so just trying to regularly go to bed at the same time every night and just making sure everything's consistent the good thing is I don't have to I don't have to wake up to go to work so I will try to stay in bed and be like all right I'm when I go to bed I'm trying to stay in bed for like 11 hours but I may only get like uh nine hours of sleep but I'm like in bed that until that like until then and then just trying to sleep but I'll do it like like my my routine of being like I'll do my morning run I'll eat a big breakfast I'm a big uh breakfast taco guy with which I got from my Texas days of like working in Texas days because they're the most they're the easiest thing to make and you can get a lot of food out of it.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_04: And uh then I'll get into the uh Normatech boots.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_04: And then I'll uh I'll uh because I I do coach somebody and uh and then I'll catch up on email and do whatever I need to do on the computer while I'm in the Normatex and I'll usually do those for like 45 minutes.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_04: And then I will walk my dog.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_04: So this is like that's like my secret run is like the my secret triple I should say is like walking my dog.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: The world too if you will.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah and then in the afternoon I'll do like my 40 40 or 50 minutes of running again.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_04: And then I'll also do like I'll do core work like three times a week gotcha okay what did it mean to you making team USA uh it was it was a big deal like because I made it uh when I was a senior in high school like when I was a junior like uh it it's called a junior team uh so my senior year of high school uh I ran it was in Eugene Oregon yeah so I'm from Buffalo so like my dad's graduation gift to me was going out to Eugene Oregon to compete in the uh junior nationals and in order for me to do that I had to miss my prom and my graduation wow so yeah we we flew out there I remember because I had run uh back in because this was 2008 I ran like Nike outdoor nationals I don't think Nike outdoor nationals exist anymore but it was in like Greensboro North Carolina and I had run terrible and like ran the two mile and ran terrible and like got home from that trip.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_04: I remember my dad was on the like uh my dad was on the lawnmower when I got home because he saw the he saw the result and it like wasn't good and he's like do you still want to go to Eugene and like do this trip because I had just run so bad and I was like I was like yes he's like do you think you'll make the team and then I said yes and he goes we'll get your passport uh after I'm done mowing the lawn and he took me to get my passport because you had to have you had to have like a your passport uh there if you were gonna uh run like represent the US like you had to like show that you that you had it or whatever so it was a that was a cool like little confidence thing and then we f we flew all the way there and then juniors the you compete against your uh you can compete against college freshmen so I had a couple of uh like future teammates because I was going to Syracuse that were in my race that were like pretty good like they were all Americans at Syracuse and I raced against them and I ended up out kicking one of my future teammates to make the team yeah and it was yeah it was great because it was the I ran the 3,000 meter steeple chase.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_04: Oh okay yeah strong from back then yeah then I got yeah then I got to go to uh Trinidad and Tobago uh to run the pan the to run the Pan American games so that was that was fun.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_04: Being so young we were freaking out like man is this even real yeah it was uh it was different because I had never like traveled like that much like it was a big deal for me to go to like Eugene and then like go to like a different country and even like the tracks are different like in Trinidad there was a Mondo track in that country it like it's like a it rains like during the summer like every day like downpours and the track was really slippery.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_04: So that was the first time I've ever fallen in a steeple chase but uh I ended up getting back up and I think I got like fifth place in my race.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_04: So it was a solid day.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_04: You wear a lot of USA singlets in your races even now is that just paying homage to back then or I did that I actually just wore it for grandma's marathon uh my last marathon uh because I figured I was like US soccer was doing pretty good and I was like I have a I have a chance I was like I have still a shot of winning this race and I'm like if I could get any type of like crowds support of like doing USA chance or whatever to get me into town like yeah that could be that could be the difference maker.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like I'll take I'll take any percentage at the end of a race of any help.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_04: So that's why I decided to wear it because that that jersey was was framed at my dad's house for since uh 2009.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_04: So we uh broke glass in order to get that out okay but yeah I like I like to have like like it was doing nothing in a frame anyways so it's nice to have that I can I can wear at races and stuff so and it's something I'm very proud of and yeah so yeah I'll I think I'll wear it more often what's it like being a professional runner now does it add pressure for you or is it more calming now?
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_04: Uh there's definitely like when I'm doing my local races like everyone wants my head I have a big I have a big target on my back so like a lot of these races aren't my like a races if I'm doing like a 5k and I'll like throw it into my training.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_04: I'll be like in a hundred and twenty mile week and uh I'll run like a 5k or a four mile race or a five mile race and like everyone's after me.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like they're everyone's surgeon they don't make it easy they make me lead but that it everyone's elevated their game and like I live in Rochester New York and everyone's elevated their game around me and we're all friends and good sports about it.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_04: But it it makes it fun.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_04: Okay so it's still fun even though it's a career now.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah that's awesome.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah how's uh your definition of success changed now that you you pretty much is running all the time yeah I mean I already feel like uh I've reached like all my goals so like everything is kind of like um gravy I would say like everything's just kind of an extra like I'm pretty like I've I've won eleven marathons I've run under 210 and I hold five course records.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm pretty happy with that.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_04: So everything I do now is is just more the merrier.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_04: So I I got nothing I got I'm someone that has nothing to lose so I'm gonna go out to races and just try to swing just see what I could do.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_04: Because it like it really doesn't yeah I'm just pumped to just give it my best.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and just keeping it fun and what makes it what keeps you like motivated you know now you actually you know you're pro runner you're achieving the high level you're OTQ and like what keeps you now in this day an age like going and a bit more a lot a lot of races like uh like the uh US Olympic trials okay like a lot of races where we you have a chance to make a team like anything could happen on a day and there's three spots and there's no there's no guarantees in sports.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_04: Like some of the top guys could have off days and you could have uh the day of your life and so that like always keeps me motivated is like races like the Olympic trials and I always think there's just yeah there's just a ton of races that you could do that um that you have a shot to win at too like there's a lot of uh other marathons other than like the majors and stuff but I'm definitely motivated because I want to get like I haven't been top ten in a marathon major yet so like that's a big goal of mine but I still it still kind of feels far away but you never you never know.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_04: Do you still you gotta keep I just you just gotta keep showing up and keep stacking bricks every every build up and just hope that you hit that day.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_04: You miss 100% of the shots you don't take so I'm taking my shots that's true do you think there's still another level there I think there's another level I felt like I reached it and I didn't it didn't come together in Hamburg.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_04: But but I have uh two more shots this fall so yeah you got some exciting fast courses man Chicago's fun uh Valentia oh man if that pans out in TM you already know it's fast yeah that's gonna be fun um yeah when you train like this you're training not just for now but like in the long term what excites you the most about the next coming years um like I said like the I the Olympic trials excites me like doing races like that and doing the marathon majors trying to compete against the top Americans and seeing where I stack up and any uh targets you got on you for the for the majors going into Chicago yeah I would I want to be under 209 in Chicago and then I want to take a shot at sub 208 in Valencia so yeah Jody I appreciate you man thanks for coming on the People Run podcast I'm looking forward to these races I'm getting excited here these times you're talking about and obviously we've done a lot this year so we're gonna see more races thank you yeah I I try to keep posting and I'll post my schedule once everything's set.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah for sure I don't have I don't have like my uh my full like I'm still waiting on some emails to get back to me before I could post what my schedule is but once everything pans out I'd like to keep it in my bios for my socials so like my Instagram I like to keep it in my bio or I'll pin uh pin a post of my schedule just try to be really transparent with everything.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: Nah it's fun seeing your training man uh I mean I think one of your biosts says hey I'm just a regular guy going hard or something like that.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah that's what our coach at Syracuse would always say you guys are just a bunch of regular guys that try hard.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone this has been the People Run podcast until next time