Latest / But We Had A Plan | A Disaster Nomad Podcast / Ep 03: There's an app for that...right?
Transcript
- Jess: Tree, hi, and thank you for joining today. I'm super excited to have you here. And I obviously have the pleasure of working with you every single week. but I want to give our audience an opportunity to get to know you. A little better and know who is Dimitri Syrris, the man, the myth, the legend. Dimitri: Thank you, Jess. Thank you so much for having me. As you mentioned, yeah, we work together on the weekly and it is an absolute joy and pleasure of mine. so I look forward to just sharing, following your flow, following your guidance. Jess: So I know Baotree very well. people who I meet are a little bit perplexed and confused as to how a disaster manager ended up working with a tech company. And obviously I can see the connect very easily. But before we get into the weeds of it, I would love for you to tell tell your story. How did Baotree come to be? And Why did Baotree come to be? Dimitri: Thank you, Jess. I guess it started when I was born. And I happened to be born in a beautiful place called Durban in South Africa, same place as Jess, actually, for the record. And growing up in Durban, we have access to the beach, to the bush, to the mountains, and to quite a rich diversity of people as well as ecosystems. And that's really the essence of where Baotree came into fruition was just through my love for nature, my love for people and my love for business. And over my career I wasn't always in technology; I'm a first-time founder but a consistent finder. And through my finding, I went on a journey after leaving a 10-year career in the advertising industry. And that journey took me across Eastern Southern Africa in 2019. Just with an intention to understand what is happening at the place of where nature and people are meeting and some of the more hard to reach contexts in this beautiful African continent. And so it was along this journey when I was, you know, teaching at a school outside of Arusha near Kilimanjaro, I learned some things. I'll expand on these shortly. I then spent some time in Botswana working on the border of the Makgadikgadi salt pans, with a group called Elephants for Africa, and that was along the Boteti River. And then a couple of other places dotted around. But really, the the common thread during this trip, which started this Baobab tree, this Baotree, the name coming from a Baobab tree, the tree of life, and us wanting to inspire a digital tree of life to branch opportunities to people, nature, and organizations, was founded to really help organizations that just fundamentally care about being better with how they create an impact, with how they measure their impact, with how they tell their story around what impact they are making. And it all starts with integrity, with trust. And to get good integrity and to get good trust in how projects are run on the ground, you need data that is trustworthy. And so the journey, yeah, I then moved to Kenya, spent two and a half years there for the beginning of Baotree. I then spent some time in Cape Town. And then I moved to Botswana, and then I now live in Hoedspruit. The theme, yes, besides Cape Town, is the bush true to my love for nature. And and the beginning of Baotree was really just the beginning of figuring out symbiotic relationships between nature, people, and businesses, and how yeah, there can be win-win solutions for all stakeholders on the ground and and the place that I care deeply about. And that's our wilderness areas and the organizations who serve these areas and the communities who coexist in these areas. And so, yeah, through a lot of love and tears and mud in the face, Jess, I think that's how to Jess: Ha ha Dimitri: start. I went on a journey not knowing what was gonna what it was gonna be and I guess seven Jess: Yeah. Dimitri: years later here we are. Jess: It's a wild journey. And it's a it's a beautiful journey. I think what really drew me in was the link to resilience. The link to being a part of something that is, it's not just for people, it's not just for planet, it's that link and how these things come together. And I love that there is this push to bring data into the realm. And from your experience, from the clients that you work with, my question is Why are we still making decisions about communities without good information? Dimitri: Jess, just a clarifying question, what does good information mean? Jess: For me, good information is evidence-based information. It is information from the source and from people who are are living and breathing the experience, not someone sitting behind a desk who's making assumptions. Dimitri: Thank you. And I agree wholeheartedly. And I and I think good information lacks because good information does mean all those things you mentioned it's verifiable, it's it's accurate, it's trustworthy. Why? Because as you mentioned, from the source, when someone is in the real world creating an action, an impact within a community space, it's recording that action in that moment, rather than coming back to a computer and trying to remember or trying to decipher what was written in the notepad by a fellow colleague and I cannot understand his or her right handwriting I think the the existing systems, Jess, are built upon legacy systems or just systems that weren't tech enabled to really help some rural contexts just gather information in a in a simple, easy way and tool that could do the heavy lifting for the people on the ground so they can do more of that good work that they do do, To then, not have to think too much about the data side, but just rather just collect whatever they need in that moment through a mobile application. Plus, smartphone penetration these days through Africa is through the roof. Everyone has a smartphone in their pocket, Ninety percent of the time these days. And so it's just ensuring that, yeah, with without good information, we we make decisions because the tools haven't existed to make any other type of decision. And so it does become slow, cumbersome, manual, and progress is often skewed in the results. And also then with how we manage the reporting cycle and whether that's to donors or to the community or to just the the general population. Jess: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, obviously I'm I know Baotree very well. So I'd be lying if I then started asking you questions like, so does that mean Baotree can do this? I know what Baotree's capabilities are. And for me, what I've seen is that there's so many organizations who are are still relying on those those other processes you've spoken about of, you know, paper forms or spreadsheets and another system. why do you think Organizations are still doing that? Is it just a familiarity with what they know? It's like, I know it, I'm comfortable. is it funding that people can't afford to try new systems that can bring these things together? Because there there are solutions out there. There are platforms that can not only you know kind of synthesize all these things into one system, but that you're getting ground truth data. What is Is the blocker? Dimitri: Obviously everything I'm gonna share, Jess is a personal view and opinion, just for the record again. Human Jess: Ha ha. Dimitri: behavior. As much as people desire and hope and wish for change, in the same breath, people resist change. I have always been doing what I have been doing for the last 20 years. I do not change. The first problem in everything I just mentioned there was it was all about the 'I'. The 'I' system doesn't work. It's developed around greed, ego, and power. And I think in a space of where people desire change, we have to be vulnerable. And to be vulnerable culturally in many different contexts is a very scary thing. And it's not very embedded in the world of how the system is governed from a nonprofit space or from a for-profit space to be vulnerable, to say What I'm doing isn't working, I could be doing it better. How can I do it better to improve my life and also the impact that the organization is making? And those questions just aren't asked in those settings. And so I think the human behavior elements, the resistance to change, and the fear of technology for the replacement of said job is where it fundamentally comes from. people will always say, and all the conferences we go to, people always say, And talk a lot about what they need. But we all know when we go to those big multinational conferences around the world, we say a lot of things. Doing is a whole nother ball game. And it's in that doing, in that action, in that willingness to step on the other side of one's own fear, to be vulnerable to to try something new. I think that's where people realise and recognize their true potential. But it is a very scary thing to do if what I've been doing for the last twenty years is all I know. And so yeah, it's human. It's really just human. And that's okay. Jess: Yeah. Dimitri: Two. Jess: Yeah. And I mean there's a beauty in that as well. If we lose the human, you know, we we lose the heart and soul of everything that we do, but it's it's scary to step outside of our our comfort. obviously there are people who are willing to step outside of that that comfort zone. and you've got beautiful customers that you guys work with. Are there stories that you could share from those customers? Examples that you can maybe give where they've seen what, you know, taking that step, that leap of faith, and working with a platform like Baotree, how that is helping them to find real answers and make evidence-based decisions through the through a system. Dimitri: thank you, Jess. I think you said it, the heart and soul. No robot or machine can ever have a heart and a soul. And when it comes to these wonderful customers, these beautiful customers that you mentioned, at the end of the day, the technology is enabling them. And to see how they are enabled, how they are equipped with our tools to fundamentally do the work that really matters, whether it's Grootbos in the Western Cape that is supporting rewilding or community based actions and then looking to expand the use of Baotree to a larger landscape model. That level of growth and that level of ambition to see how a tool can inform and enable them to make decisions beyond just their own organization, but collaborate with other organizations in a landscape and saying we can collaborate if we are all working in a similar system and standardized structure that facilitates an information thread that we can then go to donors or go to our stakeholders and go to our executive committees and say, This is the work we've been able to do, we can now prove it. I think that's such a lovely example of how success can be unpacked. another example is, you know, take an organization like Tanda Tula. They're based out here in the Timbavati in the Greater Kruger area. they are led by Don and Nina and a few other co owners. And the work that they do is before Baotree, you know, they they certified. They're Fair Trade certified. And in that model, you know, they recognize that for every three years that they are re audited to receive the recertification. They found that through in those three year gaps where they weren't necessarily collecting data consistently, when it came to audit time, they were scrambling, like trying to get pen and paper, emails, WhatsApp messages, going to the admin finance teams, trying to get invoices, receipts, and it was just an absolute shamble with regards to wasting a lot of time and trying to backtrack the last three years of trying to see, okay, where is all this information to then help that audit process. And now, you know, with Baotree, it's it's a much easier way where they consistently every day have Victor and their team collecting the information that they need to to meet the compliance of the certification requirements for Fair Trade Tourism. And Baotree has just helped centralize all that information in in one house with many different rooms for different categories of Jess: No. Dimitri: their water, their waste, their energy, but it's all there. And then what they do with that data isn't just necessarily for the reporting or the compliance side, for that certification piece, but then their marketing team can grab hold of it and start to tell stories that you know are really truthful, credible, grounded in that source information. And the other one, just full circle, is just to have like a different variety, is One Moment Foundation. And I know, Jess, you're very close to this one, but I was touched To hear that, you know, in Johannesburg in the Gauteng area, this wonderful woman Themba and her team with One One Moment Foundation, they support a lot of large scale food distribution to food shelters across the region. They help people who don't have a warm meal in the winter months or just even in any type of month. And I think what's been really beautiful is to see how, I mean, Jess you physically went and trained the team in Johannesburg, but to see These lovely gogos of all different demographics actually, having this technology capacitate them and go into their hand to see how they can participate in the food shelter and tracking the distribution of the food and who receives it. Like that's such a beautiful use case and wonderful story to see local ownership and capacitation and people gathering that information to to help Themba and the One Moment Foundation tell an even more enhanced story, you know, we're not just food distribution, we're also supporting the digital divide and helping people come into Jess: yeah. Dimitri: this technology space, sure, in a change management, you know, considered way. But it's just been wonderful to see yeah, these different applications and the outcomes that we could never even forecast. I think that's the fun part of what we do. It's like you can never how Jess: Yeah. Dimitri: this is going to be used. And you're like, we can do that with it. It can be used in this way. Jess: This is fun. Dimitri: Secret Paradise Maldives. I mean, all of a sudden they told us that they actually have integrated the Secret Paradise Maldives, they run tours around the Maldives and they're experiential, they're sustainable, like planting a tree, doing beach cleanups, going and identifying critical species like manta rays or turtles or sharks. And they all have a guide that go do these tours, and each of those individual guides are the ones that are at the end of it are then saying to the guest, Here, you've just been on this experience. Please enter in the data and the records that we've just completed on this activity. And Secret Paradise Maldives led by Ruth integrated Baotree into the the guest experience, which I think is also damn cool. We never thought that would happen. And a wonderful story out of that that the guest enters in the data and then it's in the dashboard for their impact reporting. And it's just such a lovely Bringing together again of the human and the heart Jess: Well Dimitri: and the soul. It's like what a vibe, Jess. Jess: It is a vibe. Work is fun, man. Dimitri: There's the South Durban coming out. Sorry, Jess. Jess: No, but yeah. Dimitri: Yeah. Jess: no, I I I just love it. I think I I love all the examples you've given there as well, just speak to simplicity because you're talking about. I think there's for a lot of people that apprehension is like, but it's technology. I don't work in tech, so technology is not for me. I know how to work my iPhone and I know how to use my my laptop, but A new system is terrifying. But the examples you're giving, it's so evident that it's simple. whether you're talking about guests using the system, I mean, I highly doubt they're going through a Baotree training to be able to fill in information, you know. it it really sounds like that is is such a big part of the Baotree experience is keeping it simple. And what that means then is that whether you are an office Team member, you're a guest, you are a community member, you can have a voice and you can have a say in the information. And going back to kind of the I guess the theme of this session is how good data can build resilience, is everyone needs to have a voice. If we're going to talk about resilience, if we're going to talk about a resilient society, that's not just yes, true. Dimitri: And whilst you're going down this community resilience path, just because I have this insight, Jess, I think it's it's it's vital that you share it. You are involved in an incredible project in Langa where Baotree was deployed and you guided and led the implementation. I think it's a story worth sharing. And I just love to hear just from your perspective when you talk about resilience, good information, ownership, integrating community members in their own development. I mean please I would love to hear a little Jess: Yeah. the examples you're giving, it's talking about at least when I think about resilience, you're thinking about all of society. And for a lot of people, when we talk about this concept of resilience, it's innately tied to disasters. And so it's like I'm disaster resilient. There's Other pieces of that, and I think to a large extent what you've been touching on, but to dive into that that Langa project. So Langa is an informal settlement here in the Western Cape, and it's one of the oldest informal settlements that the Western Cape has. And there's a lot of history that that community has has lived through, some very hard history, and I mean it's Think it's important to acknowledge you know apartheid and what has happened in this country, but working within Langa has been so incredible and so eye-opening, and and learning from that community what resilience really means. CRM provide Training on disaster risk assessments, provide training on early warning systems, on first aid. But where Baotree came into the mix here was we wanted there to be an opportunity for community members to do their own fire risk assessments. And the idea is that this will expand and grow into other hazard areas. But What we did was train a group of community marshals to go out into their area and be the boots on the ground asking questions of other community members and saying, All right, what is it that really affects you day to day? Have you been affected by fires? Are you receiving early warnings? Have you lost your home in a fire? Or do you know someone who has? How quickly did Help come when that was happening? And then other things around infrastructure and access to resources. And the data that has come out of that has been some of the most powerful data I have ever read. And I've said it to some people before, but I sat crying over a spreadsheet. Not because I was tired of numbers, but for the first time, the data reflected the reality of what was going on. And when working in government and doing risk assessments, there everything is kind of put into you know ones and zeros. And so you it's given a rating of one to five on how severe this risk is. But the Baotree data that was captured by that community, you saw the heart of of what that meant. And so it It was something and and this one really got me because I I live in a pretty small apartment in Cape Town. Most people do, property prices. But I have two bathrooms in my small apartment. And it was twenty-two percent of the people that were interviewed, they do not have a toilet within two hundred meters of their home. And this is a community where there's high levels of crime, quite violent crime. there's sadly a lot of gender based violence that also happens. And so for moms, gogos, little girls who need to go to the bathroom in the night, they've now got to go and walk in the dark to go find a bathroom somewhere. and that is a big percentage of the community that is placed at risk. there was also the stats around receiving early warnings and whether or not they they believe the early warnings when they come. And 89% of the people interviewed had said, if I receive an early warning, I will act on it. I I do believe the early warnings and I want to do that. But I think it was 69%. I might have that slightly wrong, 69 or 70 odd percent of the community members are not receiving early warnings. And so that is a massive gap where Other entities are saying, yes, we've got these amazing early warning systems for all members in society, and you know, we're sending warnings out, but from the ground, we are hearing we're not receiving the warnings. It's not that we don't want to action them, it's not that we don't want to take action, it's that we're not getting that information. And that's the first time in my career we've had a decent amount of information come in that very glaringly points to where the problem is because anyone working in the sector knows if you don't have the early warnings, that's that's the minimum requirement for keeping communities safe and that foundation for for building resilience. And so looking at that Langa use case, the the community themselves are also giving that feedback and they have now started asking and saying, hey, we want to do these surveys in other parts of Langa, in the other settlements within Langa because they're starting to see the value in that as well. And that to me is powerful. That is ground truthed, good data that is is making a difference. Dimitri: Sjoe, Jess, I didn't even know some of those insights that you just shared with regards to just having access to a toilet. And I'm pretty sure that whoever's watching this video, you've probably got a roof over your head. you either got a smartphone or a laptop that's connected to Wi Fi, let alone a bathroom just around the corner. but sjoe, what incredible insights and yeah, thank you for sharing and thank you for the work that you did on that one. That's profound and I can't wait to see what comes next. Jess: I'm excited for it. I would love to know from you. What makes Baotree different? Dimitri: So Jess, whilst I'm watching a slender mongoose, literally going up and down a tree. That is the species type, just for the record, should anyone want to know, and that is not what makes Baotree different. Jess, I think I'll I'll ground us on three pillars education, implementation, and storytelling. When it comes to Baotree and us meeting an organization that is curious to learn more, I think point number one is with the many, many years that we now have under our belt and the team that we have, the level of experience is vast and advanced. And so I think when someone new meets us, there's incredible education and insight that we provide from our humans to help organizations really think deeply about their objectives, what impact they want to make, how they're trying to make it, and what tools and resources they currently have at hand. And then it's well with Baotree, this is the level up, this is the amplification, and that's the education that we come in and provide. It's showcasing the What you're doing now works. But what we can do when we work together, won't make it just work, will make you fly, we'll make you exponential in how you manage your team, how you manage your impact, how you manage your your storytelling. And so that's where we go from the education, the assistance and designing and onboarding and thinking about your data to then come to the technology. I mean, built in Kenya, built in South Africa, built in Africa for Africa, we We understand the local context better than any other organization that tries to play externally within. And I think having that level of implementation, building a lo-fi technology that can work in any environment, because the mobile app, as Jess and what we've discussed, works in any setting, it works fully remotely offline. You collect all the information, come online, synchronizes, uploads, still tags the GPS coordinates, plus has photographic evidence and That's the app side, but the the one of the other superpowers is the dashboard. You know, to to be able to have a space to implement technology to monitor the actions of my team on the ground or my operational team within. I think having that level of accountability and management of projects, teams, individuals, data sets, and then seeing how I can report on that, view it on a map, geospatially, tracking and tagging things. And then being able to articulate that, because there's obviously qualitative and quantitative data that comes into Baotree. But we have a space for the quantitative data to be analyzed in graphs and charts and visualizations. And very soon, we now at the end of June 2026, you'll have a a lot more of an advanced way, thanks to the power of AI, large language models, to start having more qualitative and quantitative conversations with the data to extract a different layer of insight from that Baotree ecosystem. And so that really is the action ecosystem of having the technology as the nucleus. And so education, onboarding, learning, coming into the space of action, collecting the data, reporting on it, and then how do you tell your story? How do you communicate what has then happened in a way that can be shifted based on who you're trying to talk to? Whether it's to a donor, to a stakeholder, back to the community in Langa, or back to certification bodies, just click, download the data. Here we go, Fair Trade, here we go, other certification bodies. You can now have just thanks to the centralization of good data, verifiable data, that's we then help you tell that story and communicate it from a website, a brochure, an Instagram, an impact report. It it really is just I think that that ecosystem, Jess, that makes us so unique, that we're not just a a point solution, but people come to us because of that entire space. And at the end of the day, that entire space only really exists because of our people, our engineers, our marketing, our sales, our finance, and importantly our our experience, our customer experience team, which Jess knows very well. But it's it's enhancing that end to end journey rather than just saying, Here's a tool just fit for that purpose. Uh-uh. We help people throughout the entire process and journey from design down to that piece of communication and everything in between. And I think that's really what makes us different in a space where it can seem a little bit overwhelming to change, as we said right at the beginning of the call. But beauty is that one doesn't have to change alone. We go through that change management process with anyone and everyone and we give people the tools to to fly Baotree and drive it to their beautiful sunset spot that they dream of all the time. Jess: No, thanks, Tree. I I love how you've you kind of yeah, we've come full circle in the chat. because it's it's very clear that Baotree has still got that human heart and soul to it, which is so important because whether you're talking about sustainable tourism or you're talking about more of those impact initiatives like One Moment Foundation, All of that requires the human touch. And so I love that. And I love the storytelling component. because again, it's getting away from just bullet points that are soulless. And it's like, okay, well, cool, you've you've told me physically how many things you've done. What does that mean? And I think that is is so important because again, to talk on That voice is telling the story, showing what it means. That's how we, I believe, we connect as humans, is, okay, well, tell me more. I want to know more. I want to learn more about you, about your operations. And I think whether that is for a lodge who is is seeking out more guests, or it is a nonprofit who is is trying to find donors and investors. Having the story so clear, and if someone wants to try poke holes in it, you're like, hey, here's my numbers, I can prove it to you. I think that is so invaluable. Like you can't you can't put money on that. I mean, I have the privilege of working with with Baotree's customers and seeing the difference that that makes in the stories that can be told now because you're not just forced to track numbers in the spreadsheet. You can capture that the qualitative piece of it, which is phenomenal. it's exciting. tree the That idea around like a technology evolving and changing, there's obviously been a lot of change that's also happening in Baotree. And I mean, talking about AI, it's so topical at the moment. And that in itself can feel very overwhelming, but I think it's it's a critical step for any organization to take. you've obviously spoken about how you gotta keep people heart and soul of things, but with AI and technology becoming more And more powerful every year, and there is this kind of undercurrent that you sometimes pick up in the media, on social media, around how you know technology is gonna take everyone's jobs or technology is gonna take over. How do we make sure that we are keeping communities and keeping people at the center of what we do? Dimitri: I'm gonna do my best to oversimplify this. AI is obviously a big buzzword. think what that word means is productivity and the speed of productivity. It's also an increase in capacity and capability with regards to just being one person being able to perform tasks that otherwise I wouldn't be able to normally perform because I would need a subject matter expert on A or B or C. but it I think it's gonna just create a new platform, Jess, because the The human side of it, I'm gonna take this from Marten in our team. He shared this with me and I and I appreciated the logic. He was like once upon a time, you know, fifty years ago, people would have top business people would have like three secretaries. And someone once said to them, Hey, I'm gonna get you a computer. And they're like, I don't need a computer, I've got three secretaries. They help me organize all my calls and my meetings and things like that. And then came computers. And then, you know, from the fax, di-di-di-di-di print out scan, da-da-da-da fax, fax, fax. You then came to emails and emails created the ability for me to upload, send something to you. You could download, sign it, send it back to me. So it's just I'm talking about like matter of actions or human clicks as time has progressed. And now we've got a place where with AI, all those actions can just be done in one click, but it's gonna create new clicks that we never had the ability to click. If that makes sense. Is it clicking for you? Jess: Yeah. It's clicking. No, it's that's a really interesting way of looking at it. Dimitri: So the humans will always be needed. Like, yeah, there are some jobs that are going to be impacted because when you speak about AI, it's also it's talking about humanoids and robotics and if anyone's looking at China, but like in factories and warehouses and distribution, logistics, tr tractor driving, truck driving. I mean, these are things that's unfortunately the machine is more affordable and cheaper to the business to do. But there is going to need to be a reinvention, and this circles all the way back to the beginning. We can either resist the change or we can figure out what opportunities it's going to create. And I'm not saying, like, as you said, Baotree isn't a big scary technology AI monster that's out to scrape the internet and take all this data and then use billions of kilowatts because it it takes so much energy to do that. So I think it just It's inevitable. it's going to get to a point where it plateaus, just like all the evolutions and all the technologies. But is this the most astronomical leap in our in our time of being humans? Yes, in terms of advancement and capability. But it will plateau, it will settle, it also will create some economic collapse and some terrible things that might happen through scary leaders that Don't understand the true power that they now have and click buttons that they shouldn't. make Jess: Huh. Dimitri: uninformed decisions off bad data. so there's always gonna be that human element to just stress test, to complement, to work alongside. And I think sorry, that just was your question. I got down into a bit of a helicopter mode. But back to your question Jess: Okay. Dimitri: from a battery point of view, to do the work that we do, it it is human because we're serving humans. It's It's impact, it's sustainability, it's real world stuff. so from that point of view, I think because of its tangibility, when you are running a workshop with kids or training teachers at a school or doing the agriculture in small subsistence farming areas or at the lodge, at the property, you can't I don't want to be served by a humanoid when I'm being driven on a safari vehicle. My guide is a robot. I mean, sure, you might be able to tell me what tree that is in milliseconds. But Jess: Ha ha Dimitri: But I like the human telling the story. And so I believe Jess: Yeah. Dimitri: we just need to keep a ethical, moral ground of human integrity and not fully let go what it means to be soulful and spiritual in whatever shape or size that means to anyone. So I think Jess: Yeah. Dimitri: yeah, we'll we'll just always uphold that in just I think it just comes down to us. as humans to just keep being what it really means to be humans. That means emotional. So we don't start crying now. But Jess: Yeah. Yeah. It's a Friday, I'm might. No, I loved well, I love Marten's take on it of fewer clicks, but it creates more clicks. And it it actually just makes me think of of the Langa example because I have I have no idea who said this. My husband said it to me. I don't know where he got it from, so credit to whoever this came from. But He'd said so an AI will always beat a human, but a human with an AI will always beat an AI. And I think that that applies in this technology space in general. because if I think back to Langa, it's yes, we're replacing, you know, manual going out physically having to to write things down, but it's also Opening opportunity for learning about technology in that community and how to do assessments. And so now you've got a human with technology that is generating much more powerful findings than what we've had before. And that I think is to your point about you know keeping it ethical, keeping people involved where possible, but the efficiency of it and The scale of the impact I think is is so much bigger, which yeah, we never knew that, you know, the one click being a Baotree app would unlock the other clicks being community education and enhanced data and all those things. And that's that's really cool. It's a really nice way to look at it. I would like to, I guess, bring us home on this one today. And I want to hand it over to you to wrap things up for us and share if if there is anything on your side that so either you're excited about within Baotree that's coming in the next six months, year, two years, a nugget of wisdom you've learned somewhere that you would like to share. but I think it's it's exciting to look at the future and it's very clear to me that Baotree's got a central part to play in this idea of resilience. but yeah, I want to give you the space to share your your final thoughts or yeah, thoughts, musings, poems, limericks, have at it. Dimitri: This is my moment to rap, hey. It is. I can feel it. Jess: It it is, it is. Dimitri: Jess every time I have forecasted or shared a one or two or five year or fifty year plan of Baotree, in the space of that six to eight twelve month period, the evolution takes things in a different direction. And so if you wanna stay in touch, follow us on LinkedIn or any type of social media handle and stay up to date that way. But what I will say is I was actually thinking about this yesterday. I took a drive into the Green Belt, which is just Bush and I'm obsessed with birds and I love to find them. And when I was thinking about this, there's a lot of youngsters coming up in a world that is very different to when I came up in it, in terms of just the generational time Jess: No Dimitri: and AI and all these things, and there's a big rush of everyone wanting to be a founder or a CEO. And I can tell you now that when I started this journey, I I thought it was like going to be a very cool and sexy thing. Maybe it is a little bit, but actually it's just a role, it's a title in society. And I think the principle is yes, I found something, I found an idea, I found the beginning of Baotree. But what's beautiful, and I think what is wonderful to just share here is the evolution of responsibility and purpose and meaning. Because when I found something, I had an idea of something becoming A. And now that we're a team of 14 people, it's no longer about Being a founder, it's about being a finder. And I find that in the team that we've selected, finding opportunities, problems, challenges, solutions, just new things, new ideas, it's consistently finding not just that space and that opportunity, but also finding oneself in this process of development and of business and of the world. It's like such an adaptable space that we need to constantly evolve and change. And so when you're thinking about change, just think of it as finding. You're finding something new to do, whether it's a hobby or you're finding a new opportunity, or you're finding what makes you happy. What what does happiness mean to you? And that's why I like birds. Because I get to go out and I get to find them and discover something new. And it sounds random. But like if I can be like a chief finding officer for the rest of my life, I'm happy with that. But I think the message here just is that if you do want to go and start a business or start something new, don't get hung up on the label or the title or find trying to be a a founder or a C suite or a director or managing director or something. Rather pursue the problem and pursue the solution and pursue the things that you can find to figure out what you really want to do in this world that will make you happy because at the end of the day, when I just close this computer and I go outside there I I find my wife, I find my dogs, I find the birds and these things are the things that make me fundamentally happy. And when I open this computer on a Monday morning and I find my team, that makes me incredibly happy too and we get to find new things every day. So I think that's just The reflection just that I would share that just keep finding. Jess: Keep finding. Just keep swimming and just keep finding. Well, I think that was a a bit of a mic drop moment. So I'm not gonna ask you any more questions. I'm just gonna say thank you, Tree, for the time and for sharing your experience, for sharing about Baotree, who is a very human-centered but technology advanced company, which is so cool. And yeah, I'm I'm excited to continue following the Baotree journey. and yeah. continuing to learn from you and from the team and and seeing it grow. So we will we'll be in touch again soon. and if anyone is wanting to learn more about Baotree, I think you already mentioned it, but social media, so LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, what what are we dealing with? Dimitri: Yeah, you can all of them. Jess: All of them. Perfect. So yeah, reach out to Baotree if you want to learn more about them and we will catch you on the next episode.