Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: The Warden's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 5-7) (6/12/26)

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Mega Edition: The Warden's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 5-7) (6/12/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
0:03
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right
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back to the warden from mcc and his interview with
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the OIG investigators. Question, Okay, so, following Epstein's time on
0:15
Suicide Watch and psychological observation, was he placed back in
0:18
the shoe? Answer? Yes? Question okay, and so I apologize
0:22
to read all these but this is just again We're
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not going through them one by one, but just to
0:27
show you what it is that we have here. So
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this one says, it's from redacted to redacted? Did I
0:33
get this from you? I think this is something that
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you forwarded to me the lawyer for the warden, Mister
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Hayes responds. She says, even gave your own drinking. He
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gets cut off by the investigator. This one says, can
0:45
you send me notes on Epstein on a suicide attempt? Thanks?
0:48
That was from redacted and it looks like it sent
0:51
it up. So redacted said, I need to say SAP
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and it says here are his notes. Answer so she said,
0:59
I guess regional is requesting it. Question okay, so the
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region wanted this answer? Yeah? Question, So this is this
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what this is Is this the psychology file on Epstein? Answer?
1:14
Those are clinical notes? Answer, so these are the clinical notes?
1:18
Here would this have been? Like? Okay? It starts with
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it looks like July thirty first, and then goes back
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to July thirtieth, So it looks like these are clinical
1:27
notes from the day he got there up until July
1:30
thirty first. I wonder why why would they only send
1:33
until July thirty first? Do you know? Answer? You said,
1:38
he gets caught off by the investigator, not August the
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warden they were sent from where answer question, Well, it
1:45
started from the day that he arrived. It looks like
1:48
on it's July eighth, twenty nineteen. Answer right, question to
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July thirty first, twenty nineteen. Answer it's an encounter you
1:57
have with them, any medical He gets cut off by
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the investigator, So they did not have any encounters after
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July thirty first, twenty nineteen. His lawyer asked the question, Hayes,
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do you know answer by the warden. No, I'm not
2:13
aware of that because it would only they would only
2:16
annotate it if they had encounters with them. Question Okay,
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so you're unaware of after July thirty first, If anyone
2:23
had kind of any psychology had any interactions with them.
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Answer no, if it's not in the Bee Mr Notes
2:32
and that I guess they didn't have any question, so
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you would assume that there wouldn't be Okay, do you
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mind initially and do you know why that would be? Answer?
2:45
Hold on if an inmate is cleared off of so
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and you have to talk to them about it, but
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most inmates didn't. Once you were cleared off the suicide watch,
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they have other things that they do. You can come
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down and they give you some indiscernible courses to take,
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so they have other types of therapy. But it doesn't
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necessarily have to be entered in as a medical encounter question. Okay,
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So this is so psychology could have still been meeting
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with them, just not noted as a medical encounter. Answer. Yeah,
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I mean you see them and you can just like
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if you have patience, you will go how is everything going?
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You're doing all right? Yeah, I'm fine, I'm okay, So
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it doesn't have to be noted as a medical encounter question. Okay.
3:30
So your involvement with this being that he came off
3:32
of psychological observation On July thirtieth should psychology had interacted
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with them more in that type of setting where they
3:40
would have been writing clinical notes. Answer no, I think
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they did everything because they cleared him at the time.
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I mean, based on the sis investigation, it was inconclusive
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whether he committed, you know, tried to attempted to commit suicide.
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And I didn't read all the reports. But if he's
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sitting in the report saying no, I wasn't trying to
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kill myself and I didn't do it, that's their assessment
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of it. Question right, No, I guess what I'm saying
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is that I know you're not a psychologist, but if
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the thirtieth was the day that they cleared them to
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go back to the shoe, do you think that they
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should have continued to at least checking them or no? Answer? Well,
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they probably did. Question okay. Answer, you make your shoe rounds,
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you know, seeing them on the other parts of the institution,
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so you would have to ask them. But they were
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probably encounters with them, but that didn't require a report
4:38
and a medical annotation in there. Question Okay, So this
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next email, it talks about it, says Warden redacted and
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this is from redacted and redacted. Is he the coordinator
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or who is he? Oh? Here it is National Suicide
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Prevention Coordinator for the BOP. It says, thank you for
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supporting our scheduling of the psychological reconstructive for inmate Epstein.
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I'll be joined by redacted Correction Service Administration of the
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Northeast Region. So do you know if that was ever
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completed the actual suicide reconstruction. Answer they might have, but
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nobody talked to me. Question Okay, they didn't talk to you.
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Answer na question okay, fair enough. And then behind it
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it looks like just it looks like a template is
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attached here indiscernible National Suicide Prevention Program Suicide reconstruction material
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answer uh huh. Question would have you been the one
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that would have gathered these things for them? Answer? No,
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you probably Typically when this happens, this comes from when
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I used to do them. I would make contact with
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someone in the institution to get it. So you might
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have the executive assistant get this information. Question So it says,
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I'm attaching a list of material we use to complete
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the reconstruction. We routinely take these documents with us, so
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please ensure that a copy of any documents you also
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need it says your assistance in gathering documents. Appreciate it
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will be helpful, So you would just you would provide
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that to like redact it or someone. Answer, yeah, we
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tell the exact heay, I need you to gather this
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information and it might not be redacted. It could be
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the chief psychologist whoever is assigned to it. Question Okay,
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but as far as you know, was that completed? Did
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he show up and do that? Answer? I wasn't at
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the institution? Question? Oh? Okay, So you when were you
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removed from the institution? Answer Monday? Question Monday August twelfth?
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Answer yep. Question okay, That's what I was kind of
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asking before. Maybe I wasn't clear with my question. I
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was wondering if something happened to you after this that
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you're removed and no longer He gets cut off by
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the warden. No, they just told me go report to
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the region. Question all right, so as of Monday August twelfth,
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twenty nineteen, you are no longer at MCC. Answer I
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was no longer at the MCC. Question and did you
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ever go back after that? Answer? No? I didn't. Question okay,
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so that was okay? Answer, Well, I did today to
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go to the park. Question okay, but after this instance
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and you were not really involved after that? Then? Answer
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that was it? I didn't have any He gets cut
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off by his lawyer, mister Hayes. Yeah, check in today.
7:32
Did you just say? Answer? No, I had a park.
7:36
I had to park a vehicle because I had to.
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I had the government vehicle, so parking them, I had
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the prop So I parked there. Then I took the
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train out. I think when we started and redacted asked
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when you started at the regional office? I think you
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mentioned twenty twenty. Answer So the problem is and he's
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talking about job title. My job title remained the same
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question as warden. Answer as the warden in New York,
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and it wasn't removed until twenty twenty. Question okay, well now,
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but as of August twelfth, twenty nineteen, you started a
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reporting to the region. Answer yeah, DRD came, I did.
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When was it? I had an interview at the US
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Attorney's office, and then my boss came and said, hey,
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you know, we're signing you up to the regional office.
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So I went up. You know, no reason why I
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was being removed, and I was just told to go there.
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So that's what transpired. Question was there another warden in place? Answer?
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They brought another one in question, so there were two
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people with the title of warden at that point. Answer well,
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they had mister redacted and redacted she is question all right,
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So if you don't mind just initially in dating here,
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we'll get that out of the way. So it looks
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like this answers our question. So this is an email
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from aw redacted to yourself. Answer uh huh question and
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it just says, FYI from doctor redacted regarding her last
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interaction with Ebstein prior to her departure on Thursday. Answer yeah,
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question doctor redacted was the psychologist at mcc Answer yes,
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question correct answer, she was the chief psychologist. Question okay, great.
9:23
And it says that I visited in made Epstein in
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Schue on Thursday, Thursday, meaning August eighth, twenty nineteen. He
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was getting ready to meet with his attorneys for the day,
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so I had gone to visit him right after the
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shoe meeting. He had a cell mate at the time,
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with whom I saw him interact with. He did not
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report any medical or any mental health concerns, and he
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denied any suicidal thoughts or intention. He was asking the
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writer to go to general population and was making requests
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for various leads he had at the time. He wanted
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social calls without them being on a speaker phone. He
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wanted a book he had left in the suicide watch area.
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His mood was not depressed or anxious. There were no
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signs of stress. He had planned on a meeting with
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his attorney to work on his legal situation. So there
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is that, and then there is also I don't know
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if this was attached redacted. I don't know how this
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was printed. But it also looks like all the contacts.
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It says fifteen contacts in one month, starting on July sixth,
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twenty nineteen, when Epstein arrived, and after it does say
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that there was a contact that looks like on the
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thirty first Hayes, the lawyer interjects, what does he mean
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by that contact? Answer a psychology contact, Hayes, okay. Question.
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And then here's one eight one, twenty nineteen, doctor redacted.
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SRA was being conducted. What is SRA do you know? Answer?
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It's SEGRU segregation review question. So it says court sent
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form suicidal tendencies. Answer no, that must be a psycho
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logical thing. I thought it said SRO. If it says SRA,
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that must be for the shoe question, Okay. And it
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says on August first, twenty nineteen, he denied any suicidal
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tendencies friends, indiscernible, supportive Jewish against his religion, still denied
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knowing what happened to him on seven, twenty three, twenty nineteen,
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when he was discovered with the string loosely tied around
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his neck, said his incident report for self mutilation was expunged.
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His cellmate is talkative, but we'll give it a chance.
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Noisy in shoe he lives for fighting this case and
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going back to his normal life. And again it says
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that the eight eight, twenty nineteen was with doctor redactid
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what I just read and on A ten twenty nineteen,
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So I guess they did indiscernible just not this indiscernible answer. Yeah,
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you don't have to always go question. So yeah, maybe
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then those weren't required. Question. Yeah, do you mind maybe
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signing the bottom on this one? Answer? Uh huh. That
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wasn't attached to the email. That was just a separate document. Question. Oh,
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that's a separate document. Okay, there you go. Can you
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go to psychology, all right, and this is the last
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one to cover what psychology? This was an email that
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was sent out by a redacted two. It says suicide
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Watch psych Observation update on seven thirty, twenty nineteen at
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twelve thirty pm, and it says inmate Epstein's being taken
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off psych observation and needs to be housed with an
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appropriate cell made answer, uh huh question and it just
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says everyone who was attached to this scent this was
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sent to Is this something that they normally do after
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someone comes off psych observation or suicide Watch? Did they
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send this out to everyone or was it a special
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case for this answer? No, it's typical question. That's typical answer.
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Typical because you have to let the lieutenants, the shift lieutenants,
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everyone know. You know the person's coming off and where
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to house them, so go back to their units. In
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this case, he was going back to the special housing unit. Question. Okay, great,
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do you mind just initially and dating that? And that
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was Is it their job to determine if a cellmate
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has to be housed with another cellmate, I mean, an
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inmate has to be housed with another inmate? Answer? Well, typically,
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I mean if there is nothing in policy that sounds
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you know, in the correctional setting, if somebody has been
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on you know, attempted suicide or attempted to self mutilate,
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you usually put them with someone. Question. Okay, so were
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you or your staff involved with that decision to have
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Epstein removed from suicide watch or psychological observation? Answer? Psychology
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makes the determination that the individual is you know, no
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longer suicidal. This is for any inmate and there is
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no reason for him to be on suicide watch. So
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they either get released to wherever they came from, whether
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it was general population unit or the special housing unit. Answer.
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So on the background on that, so on the individual
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psychology department, who would meet with mister Epstein. She said
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that she discussed this one of the steps down with
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doctor REDACTID as well as aw answer uh huh question,
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and I was informed that is kind of pretty routine
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that is conducted in coordination with executive staff members. Answer right,
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that is question. So that's where I want to make
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sure that I'm understanding what it is that you're saying. Answer,
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But we also do we have what we call and
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if it's an inmate that's in our special housing unit.
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We have a weekly meeting and if there are issues,
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that's brought up in the meeting. Question. Okay, So it's
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solely though, up to psychology. If the inmate goes from
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say suicide watch, to psych observation and again psych observation
15:00
back to a housing unit, is that they're a call
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or can or does executive staff or anyone in the
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BOP outside of psychology have any influence on that answer.
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Psychology are the subject matter experts. They're the doctors they
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release someone off a suicide watch. If an individual is
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on suicide watch, I can't turn around and come in
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there and say take them off. Question. Sure answer. I'm
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not a trained psychologist. Now I can put somebody on there,
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but then you know, after hours or if it's an emergency,
15:30
or if he attempted suicide, any staff member could put
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him on there. Question Okay answer, But as far as
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taking them off, you have to have a medical reason.
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As far as them coming off, All right, We're gonna
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wrap up right here and in the next episode dealing
15:44
with the topic, We're gonna pick up where we left off.
15:47
All the information that goes with this episode can be
15:50
found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome
15:53
to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode,
15:57
we're gonna pick up where we left off with the
16:00
warden and his interview with the OIG inspectors. Question so,
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in that interview with that individual, they said the decision
16:09
was discussed with AW redacted, and that individual concurred with
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the decision. If they didn't concur, though, would that matter
16:17
to them? Answer? What do you mean if the AW
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didn't concur with it? I don't want to use the
16:22
word courtesy as a telling, but they're keeping They're keeping
16:25
us informed, saying okay, we need to take them off
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suicide Watch. Now let's say I come in and I
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interject and say, no, I want them on there. What
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is my reasoning for putting them on there? What medical
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degree do I have to justify keeping an individual on
16:40
suicide watch? Because now it could go the other way.
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I decided to turn around and do something like that,
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I would be having a conversation with you about something else.
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Question sure, so it's more to keep you apprized if
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anything else. Answer you know and saying, hey, this is
16:59
the way that where removing an individual and we move
17:02
forward I mean, obviously we'll have questions, you know, if
17:05
we had questions. Hayes interjects, guys, I want to go
17:09
for a second. All right. Answer okay, Hayes, I gotta
17:14
go to the bathroom. Question do you want us to
17:17
continue or wait? Hayes, No, just stay by me, don't continue.
17:22
I'll be right back. So he goes for the bathroom, break,
17:27
comes back, and the next question is all right. So
17:31
the last that we discussed was that psychology said that
17:34
mister Epstein needed to have a cell mate. And this
17:36
is where we talked a little bit about it. It
17:39
sounded like the decision to have friend Reyes placed as
17:42
Epstein's cell mate was actually made at a higher level
17:45
than yourself. Answer yes, question okay, And who made that decision? Answer?
17:52
I don't know, listen, I know I sent it to
17:54
my supervisor. Actually, the two inmates that would kind of
17:57
figured out there might be a cell mate sent those
18:00
names to the director's office. Question okay. Answer and it
18:05
was redacted was the chief of staff. And because see
18:08
my boss told me that they had to run it
18:10
up the department. So I don't know who was spoken
18:12
to in that department. And I got back and my
18:15
boss said that too. You know, that's a good choice.
18:19
Question okay, and that's mister redacted again. Answer yeah, question okay, great,
18:26
but it was based upon a list that you provided. Answer, yeah,
18:30
there were some names. Because I fast forward, I got
18:34
a call and we were gearing towards getting them out
18:36
of general population. Question, oh, so you wanted Epstein to
18:40
actually be in general population? Answer? I didn't want. That's
18:45
what typically happens. You know, you don't want an inmate
18:48
and segregation most of them. We've had a lot of
18:50
high profile individuals that come in the institution. You know,
18:54
we do our intelligence gathering to see, okay, what would
18:57
be an appropriate unit for them to be in, and
19:00
we place them and then we monitor them, if you know,
19:03
and that is how we move them into general population.
19:07
I get a call saying hold up on that he
19:09
needs to stay where he is. Question and who called you, Hayes?
19:15
Did he qualify as a pedophile? Answer? I don't. I
19:19
didn't read, but that's we didn't. He gets cut off
19:24
again by Hayes. You know, that's not feasible why we
19:27
were able to keep him in. So get a call
19:29
and they said hold up on that he needs to
19:31
stay where he's at. Question Okay, and I'm sorry, who
19:35
was it that called you to tell you that he
19:37
had to stay answer mister redacted. And then that's when
19:41
I had to send up the names. I guess he
19:43
had gotten some from the department. I don't know who
19:46
we talked to in the department. Question. Oh so, coming
19:50
out of the psych observation, you are looking to send
19:52
him back to general pop Answer no question or not
19:56
back into answer when he first came in, the whole
20:00
process was to get him out of general population. Question
20:04
I got you so back you're talking about July sixth
20:07
through July eighth, that timeframe, answer the whole thing. And
20:11
then even you know, coming out of psych observation when
20:14
he got in, the plan was still to get him
20:16
into general population. Question Uh huh answer. I mean we
20:21
had the attorneys contacting our legal why can't he be
20:24
in general population? So and then that's when I got
20:27
the call from my boss saying, and I don't know
20:30
who he talked to in the department, but he was like,
20:32
hold on question. And on that note, I guess this
20:36
would be a good time to talk about this. Being
20:38
that it was ultimately decided that he go into nine
20:41
South or the special housing unit. Was it discussed at
20:45
all that he'd be placed on the ten South for
20:47
the high you know Sam inmates? Answer, So, here's the
20:51
problem with ten South. It's the terrorist unit, and there's
20:55
Sam's things in there. The amount of attorneys he had
20:57
coming in there, we couldn't have those attorneys up to
21:00
that unit every day, reaching the security of it and
21:03
then trying up the movement in there because when an
21:06
attorney comes in there, now those guys get attorneys, but
21:09
it's planned and they're in there. Epstein's attorneys were coming
21:13
in early in the morning and weren't leaving until late
21:15
at night, and it was about four or five of them.
21:21
Hayes interjects and guests who kept paying his bill. Answer,
21:27
by the warden, right, that's not an appropriate unit and
21:31
that's not what the unit's for. Question Now, what about
21:34
like if you know an al Chapo or someone of
21:37
the other high levels that were in terrorists, how did
21:40
you deal with them? Did they have attorneys visiting them
21:43
or no? Answer? They did, but it wasn't to that
21:46
extent like he l Chopo would have his attorneys come in,
21:49
but they came in for a couple hours. They left
21:52
as it got close to trial, then they would you
21:55
would see them more frequently. But mister Epstein, Day one attorneys,
21:59
they were there from the beginning to the end. We
22:02
even had complaints from the local attorneys that they were
22:04
taking up the rooms. Question, so the primary reason he
22:10
was placed in nine South was because of attorney visits? Answer, well,
22:15
not the attorney visits. But it's the same in the
22:18
Sam's unit, and that's not a Sam's inmate. Mister Hayes interjects,
22:25
what's a Sam's unit question? Special administrative measures. That means,
22:29
you know, strict communication and there's a lot that goes
22:32
on with that unit. So he wasn't appropriate to be
22:34
up there. Question Now were some of those other high
22:39
profile innimates though, such as El Chappo? And who were
22:42
some of the other people in that unit? Answer? Yeah,
22:46
the terrorists up there? Question? But the non terrorist meaning
22:49
the people that there was a few, Well you add
22:52
Sholti whoever that is. But he was in for espionage
22:55
and he had Sam's on him. Question Now did l
23:00
Choppo have a SAMs on him? Answer? He had no.
23:03
His status was based on and I know there was indiscernible,
23:07
his escape status and stuff. So he was a high
23:10
profile person that had escaped from another prison before, so
23:13
that was an appropriate place to place him. Schulty was
23:17
in general population and SAMs was placed on him by
23:21
his attorney. Hayes jumps in, Can I ask a totally
23:24
irrelevant question, investigator? Uh huh, Hayes? What was l choppo
23:29
like answer from the warden? Just like any other inmate, Hayes?
23:35
Is that right? Answer? Yeah, just like any other inmate. Hayes.
23:40
Polite answer, polite, you know, no problems, But that wasn't
23:43
the appropriate unit to be housing inmate Epstein. The investigator
23:48
pipes back in with another question, Now, did you even
23:51
have the authority to place him intense South if you
23:53
wanted to answer? I mean, I could have, but I
23:57
would have had to have, you know, some justification as
24:00
to why I'm putting him up there, and there would
24:03
have been pushed back from his attorneys. Question okay, because
24:07
some people had mentioned that saying the warden doesn't even
24:10
have the ability to do that. That comes from a
24:12
higher level. I mean answer, I mean, in essence, in essence,
24:18
it does, because it would have had to explain and
24:20
justify why you you know certain inmates with certain crimes
24:24
are placed up there, why am I placing him? And
24:28
then the fact that you know he is pre trial
24:30
individual he needs access to his attorneys. That unit is
24:34
just too restrictive for that question now, and this is
24:38
a total Monday morning quarterback. Do you stand by the
24:41
decision that he would be a nine self or do
24:44
you think that he should have been in ten self
24:47
or what are your thoughts on that? Answer? I think
24:50
he was appropriately placed. Question Okay, so nine South was
24:54
the appropriate place for him? Answer yes, quick question by
25:01
another investigator. Do you recall if there were inmates in
25:06
tent South during that time? Answer? Yes, there were? Question yeah,
25:10
do you know who those inmates were? Answer? El Choppel
25:14
had left. I got the one that ran the call
25:17
with people in Brooklyn. He was there, mister Hayes pipes
25:22
in What was his name? Answer? I forgot Hayes. What
25:25
did he do? What was he in there for? Answer
25:28
that's the one that killed the pedestrians in Lower Manhattan
25:30
and ran the vehicle into them Hayes? Yeah, and then
25:34
the guy kicked the gun out of his hand, right.
25:37
Answer Yeah, he was there. I remember SHOULTI was another
25:40
guy that was there. It was something to do with
25:43
Osama bin Laden the warden. Who else we had a
25:46
younger terrorist that was in there, so we had it
25:49
it was they had terrorists in there on espionage charges.
25:53
Question all right, so this is along what we were
25:56
just discussing. It says that this is from Radak, who
26:00
is just a supervisory staff attorney. Answer right, question what
26:05
does this CLC stand for? Answer? It's the combined. He's
26:09
the supervisory attorney for Brooklyn and New York. Question so
26:15
he's kind of like the general council for Brooklyn and
26:17
New York. Answer, yeah, he was a supervisory attorney. Question Okay,
26:22
all right, So this was to you and it was
26:24
on Saturday, August tenth, twenty nineteen. It says Warden, per
26:28
our conversation, I spoke to two of his attorneys yesterday,
26:32
August ninth, twenty nineteen, primarily in relation to his request
26:35
for access to water an attorney conference attorney Marial Cologne
26:41
next word Cologne, with whom I spoke in person in
26:43
the late morning, had asked, as an aside, whether we
26:47
would consider Housingham in the cadre. What is the cadre? Answer?
26:52
Cadre is the camp question is at low level? Answer,
26:56
it's like our lower security inmates. Yeah. Question, so you
26:59
have an act actual camp at MCC. Answer its low
27:02
security inmates. But remember they are designated, so we couldn't
27:06
put him in that unit because he's pre trial. We
27:08
can't mix designated and pre trial inmates together. Question okay,
27:13
it says I advised we could not since he was
27:15
a pre trial inmate. Later that day, but prior to
27:18
one close out meeting, I spoke to attorney Michael Miller
27:22
on the phone. He had asked whether we could house
27:25
mister Epstein alone in the shoe, to which I replied
27:28
that we could not based on his prior suicide attempt
27:30
or gesture. Hayes pipes in. It's just I've never heard
27:34
of his lawyers. You would think that his lawyers would
27:37
be somebody that I was familiar with, Hayes, since they're
27:40
probably charging him two thousand and an hour. Back to
27:44
the questioning by the investigator, he acknowledged that he understood,
27:48
to my recollection, neither attorney reference consideration for suicide watch
27:52
or psychological observation during yesterday's conversation. Please let me know
27:57
if you need any further information. Now, was this just
28:00
a request to any contact that he had with his attorneys? Answer,
28:05
he just keeping me informed because the attorneys were calling
28:08
every day with different types of requests. Question. But this
28:13
was the day obviously of when he was found, so
28:16
this he would be talking about context just literally the
28:20
previous day that he was looking for different housing type arrangements.
28:24
But all right, he gets cut off by Hayes. That
28:27
was a thousand dollars phone call. Question. Excuse me, mister Hayes,
28:31
that was a thousand dollars phone call in discernible charging.
28:34
All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right there,
28:36
and then the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
28:38
going to pick up where we left off. All the
28:40
information that goes with this episode can be found in
28:44
the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another
28:47
episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going
28:51
to pick up where we left off with the interview
28:54
from the warden at MCC with the OIG investigators. Oh now,
29:01
this answers our question from before. So this actually says
29:05
it's from you to mister addactied. It says attorney logs.
29:08
This is that same thing that we were looking at
29:12
answer okay, question, So it looks like July thirtieth is
29:15
highlighted and mister Epstein and again all of these are
29:19
attorney assignments. So that does now clarify what it is,
29:24
because previously there was nothing that was in the subject
29:27
line answer okay, question or the body Okay, Hayes. Yeah,
29:33
I'm looking at the stack and I'm sitting here just
29:35
Jesus Christ. Question we're coming to Hey, we're almost halfway through, Hayes. Well,
29:42
that's the way you're looking at it a little bit different. Fellas,
29:45
I'm thinking about I'm going to miss today's workout and tomorrow's.
29:50
This guy Hayes is really a comedian, isn't He has
29:52
a lot of jokes. Question Now, you've already answered this,
29:58
But did you work at the mcc on August nin
30:00
That was a Friday, Friday? I was off. Question What
30:04
about on August tenth, twenty nineteen. Answer tenth was a Saturday?
30:08
I worked on Saturday. Answer all right, but did you
30:11
work In response to this answer, no, I had to
30:14
respond if the day of the suicide was August tenth. Yeah,
30:18
I had to respond if I came in question Okay,
30:21
so but you weren't scheduled to work. Answer no, I
30:25
wasn't scheduled to work. Question all right, this is just
30:28
four and this is going to be put in here
30:30
in case you need some reference to it. These are
30:33
emails that were from you to mister redacted with the
30:36
staff roster. Answer right. Question. And the reason I'm using
30:40
this is because these were literally sent on Sunday, August eleventh,
30:45
so I know that we can rely on these based
30:47
upon being so close. So this is one for Friday,
30:50
August ninth. It showed who was working on that day,
30:53
and this is one for Saturday, August tenth, again showing
30:56
who he gets cut off by the war. This is
31:00
a correctional roster. Answer or question correct, This is a
31:05
correctional roster. Right, So who was basically I think involved
31:10
with Epstein during that date? So? Yeah, how many rosters?
31:13
What would there be aside from correctional answer? Well, the
31:18
correctional officers are the only ones that keep a daily roster.
31:22
Question like R and D wouldn't have anything like that.
31:25
Answer no, because their staff are already assigned to where
31:28
they're working at. Question okay, answer yeah, And they have
31:33
rosters that show where everyone is working at but not
31:36
like the correctional officer roster. Question. Okay, so I'm going
31:40
to have you just initial in date. I'm going to
31:42
place this again here just in case we need to
31:44
reference it. And again it's just if we need to
31:47
look at it. Who is working and what position and what? Yeah? Please,
31:51
So this would be for the August ninth, and that
31:54
one would be for August tenth. Question. Yeah, so we
31:59
have to pull that from just for the full disclosures,
32:02
but just so that we have both. The August ninth
32:05
one was something that you had sent all right? Since
32:08
Epstein was required Davis cell mate, who was ultimately responsible
32:12
to make sure that all shoe staff were aware of
32:14
this requirement? Answer? That they were notified? Question So, how
32:20
so doctor redacted or misredacted send out the email saying
32:23
Epstein's required David cell Mate, the one that we reviewed.
32:28
Answer right, Question who was required to make sure that
32:31
the staff knew of the requirements in the shoe? Answer? Well,
32:35
the captain passes it on to the lieutenants and the
32:37
officers are then made aware that he you know, any
32:40
inmate if they're required Davis cell mate, that you know
32:44
that they're acquired Davis cell mate if somebody leaves or
32:46
goes out. Question, Now, someone such as an Epstein who
32:51
was just coming off of suicide watch, you know, a
32:54
week a week and a half prior, should all the
32:56
staff have known that that person is supposed to be
32:59
housed with the cell mate. Answer in the special housing unit,
33:04
anybody working in there would know that he was supposed
33:06
to have a cell mate. Question do you believe that
33:09
there was anybody, especially that's got a quarterly bit of
33:13
a post there, but anybody that's working in the shoe
33:16
on August ninth or tenth, do you believe that they
33:18
could have had a reason why they would say, we
33:21
didn't know he was supposed to have a cell mate.
33:23
Do you think that would be an acceptable excuse? Answer?
33:28
Because you had the staff that usually work up there
33:30
were up there. It should be it should have been
33:33
annotated on his What do you call it? It's called
33:36
the two ninety two question? The hot list you're referring to. Answer, No,
33:43
not the hot list question. Oh, you mean the two
33:46
ninety two you're talking about the shoe file. Answer the
33:49
shoe file. It should be annotated on the shoe file
33:52
because when you come in you have to annotate on
33:55
there his meals. Did he eat the medical rounds? So
33:58
it would have been on there. It would have been
34:00
on there too. Question would it have also been on
34:04
the hot list? So the point being is, do you
34:07
think that if any staff that is working in that
34:10
you know, as we know, mister Araus left in the
34:13
morning of August ninth. Mister Epstein was found the morning
34:15
of August tenth, shoe staff that's working in there at
34:19
that time, he's twenty four hours basically gone, you know,
34:21
with no without a cell mate. Do you think that
34:24
this is a reasonable excuse for them to say that
34:27
we didn't know he was required to have a cell mate?
34:30
Answer no, because they did know, because I from what
34:33
I understand, someone wrote a memorandum and had it that day.
34:37
They knew. Question Okay, well yeah, we can get into
34:42
that now. Then, so these are Hayes interrupts them. One
34:46
other question, I want to open a box. Question absolutely, Hayes.
34:52
That means I'm going to have to bring a sharp
34:54
object in here. Is that going to bother anybody? Everybody
34:57
says no, question, I'm sorry, I thought you were talking
35:00
about like this hypothetical situation of if we were in
35:03
the MCC or something. Hayz oh, no, no, this is
35:07
just a box question. You're wanting to know if you
35:12
can use scissors. Yeah, that's fine question, all right, we're
35:15
going to continue. Then the answer was yes. Answer, I
35:19
don't know if that was somebody. I'll ask a few
35:22
more questions before we get into these documents. Were any
35:25
plans made on how to address the situation for if
35:28
Reys was removed as Epstein cell mate, like if he
35:31
because I know at MCC it may certainly leave. Answer No,
35:36
I mean the plan would have been, you know, we
35:38
would have reassessed it, because usually you get ahead of time.
35:41
We would have just said, okay, when is when Reys
35:45
leaves or you know, when he was leaving. Then before
35:48
he was placed back in the cell, an assessment would
35:50
have been made. Question okay, now, what is your understanding
35:55
of what happened within Maate reyis on August ninth, twenty nineteen.
35:59
Answer when I got back after the fact, I guess
36:02
the marshals came and removed them from the institution. Question okay,
36:07
so there's a lot of people we've talked to that
36:09
thought he went to court, and at court it was
36:12
determined that he wasn't coming back. Had you heard that? Answer?
36:15
That's what I heard too. I had heard that he
36:17
was going to court, and then I guess word got
36:19
back that he wasn't coming back. That's what I heard.
36:22
So I never got indiscernible. I never got the actual
36:25
story because I was I was removed. Question okay, and again,
36:30
what does WAB mean? Answer? It means with all belongings?
36:34
Question okay. Answer, but I don't know. I don't know
36:38
if people will say that he left and then they
36:40
went and got him from the office, so I'm not sure.
36:44
Question okay. So this is one of the documents that
36:48
says from redacted to redact it to you with inmate
36:52
Epstein as a subject answer right question, and it says,
36:56
so far this is the documentation I have in my
36:59
possess and if you see you know here it talks
37:05
about all the documentation pertending to him. These look like
37:08
all the BOP database things, and down here it says
37:12
documentation rayis registration number eight five nine ninety three DASH
37:17
zero five four cellmate. It says court documentation regarding WAB
37:24
eight nine nineteen and then also shoe file so showing
37:28
court documentation regarding WAB eight nine nineteen. What documentation is
37:33
she referring to their answer? I guess whatever came through
37:36
R and D. Question, Uh huh answer and were receiving
37:40
in discharge they might have gotten They must have gotten
37:43
information to release them and that he was being transferred.
37:46
Question So would it all be I know R and
37:50
D create something called like court production list? Would that
37:53
be that what she's talking about, the court production list?
37:57
Or would she be you think or like a PP.
38:00
Thirty eight or something or whatever? Answer? I think and
38:04
I'm speculating now. It was probably the court list, and
38:07
it probably said we're sending them off to court, and
38:10
it was a possibility that he might be getting released.
38:14
Question because of the document that has been eluding me,
38:17
is the court production list? Do you know if that
38:19
was ever obtained? Do you know the thing that the
38:22
R and D creates, the list? They provided it to
38:25
the different housing units. Answer list, I don't. I don't
38:29
know what they did with it. Question They just all
38:32
say that they destroy it after the time. Answer, Yeah,
38:36
they do. Question, but that's what would have been used
38:41
by the shoe staff in order to produce reyes to
38:43
the R and D. Answer no, not necessarily. What typically
38:47
happens is the R and D staff we'll call up
38:51
to the Shoe and say, hey, I need rays down
38:53
he has court or he's being released. So they wouldn't
38:56
have had the document sent up questions. So everyone that
39:00
we talked to said R and D said yes, we
39:03
created the document, and the Shoe staff, including the OIC,
39:07
said yes, we had documentation showing that he was wab
39:11
so then and they all said it was because it
39:14
was a court production list that you sent out emails to.
39:18
He gets cut off by the warden unless it's sent
39:20
out early in the morning. Back to the question, and
39:24
it's not something that sent electronically, it's something they said
39:27
that they generate, print out and hand to different The
39:29
obsos lieutenant has one, every housing unit has one. Internal
39:33
goes around and collects people based upon it or something.
39:37
I think that they then basically destroy it at the
39:40
end of the day and nothing's maintained in the system.
39:43
They just use the template and create a new one
39:46
every day. Answer, So that must have been the early
39:50
court movement. So I was under the impression that he was.
39:53
He left in the afternoon, so when typically in the
39:55
afternoon they will just call up and say, hey, we
39:58
got one that's leaving. Assumed he had left in the
40:01
afternoon question. Okay, so is it then? Are you not
40:06
then to answer that question? Are you not sure exactly
40:09
what she's referring to When she says court documentation regarding WAB,
40:14
answer like the way you explained it, then that means
40:17
they were talking about morning courts. Question. Well, that's what
40:22
they were. I'm just talking about specifically what she's talking
40:26
about in the emails to you answer, But when you
40:29
say WAB with all belongings, it depends on the time
40:32
of day that they left. You know, you could have
40:35
afternoon court. You don't have the list generated, and they
40:38
say we need all his belongings question, and then we
40:44
will keep this in front of you. This might help
40:47
explain this. So this is an email that was sent
40:50
from the US Marshall Service some one named redacted on Thursday,
40:54
August eighth, twenty nineteen, ten thirty three am. It says
40:58
transfer of prisoners from ny from NYM to GEO. The
41:03
following prisoners are to be transferred. The second person listed
41:07
out of the two is efren reyis please schedule the
41:10
transfer for Friday eight nine, twenty nineteen. Please include seven
41:14
days medication with the medical summary. Thank you. Answer right question.
41:20
So this is obviously sent R and D correct answer
41:23
right question. Do you know what kinds of medication that
41:25
we're talking about? That was a question by mister Hayes.
41:31
Answer by the investigator, Well, that's ephyn Reyis. But this
41:35
is not relevant. I don't think it's relevant. Here's another
41:38
email that the US Marshall Service sent. This time it
41:41
was at redacted. It says Prisoner production. It looks like
41:46
it was sent to custody on Thursday August d eight,
41:48
twenty nineteen, at three thirty six. And then this document
41:52
Prisoners Schedule Report is attached. Answer you're looking at the
41:56
second one question. So for the MCC, it shows right
42:00
here the second person listed is ephyrin Reys and it
42:05
just says TF transfer within MCC New York. And right
42:09
here it says Judge MCC tot GEO. What I was
42:14
told is that that it means he's transferring from MCC
42:17
to GEO. Is that you're understanding? Answer yes question. And
42:22
then on this one, this is the PP. Thirty eight
42:25
on the third for eight nine, twenty nineteen. On the
42:27
third page. It shows Reyes from Z zero six twenty two,
42:32
and that means the shoe correct answer yes, the shoe
42:36
question pre move answer YEP question at a thirty eight
42:42
answer YEP question. So this was a thirty eight am.
42:46
He's keyed out of our system. We got these two
42:48
emails from the US Marshall Service saying he's being transferred
42:52
from the MCC to GEO answer a contract facility, a
42:58
private prison. Hayes pipes in, okay, and you had nothing
43:03
to do with In other words, somebody else decides to
43:05
go from one place to another. Warden, yes, Hayes. You indiscernible, Okay, Hayes.
43:13
And would that be the judge or the marshals, the warden,
43:16
the marshals, I guess the judge. I don't know who
43:19
the marshals work. But he gets cut off by the investigator, prosecutors,
43:25
marshals and the judge all in coordination. They make those determinations.
43:31
But and then here is an email from you to
43:33
mister redacted with what you are talking about, and that memo.
43:38
It says on Friday, August ninth, twenty nineteen. But before
43:42
we even get into that, now that you've seen this,
43:45
you have seen these two emails from the Marshal Service
43:48
on August eighth. On August ninth, at a thirty eight
43:51
R and D actually keys them out. Answer right. Question
43:56
all of them say pre removed or transferred? Answer yeah.
44:00
Question Does that now tell you anything about this court
44:03
documentation regarding WAB Answer yeah, Now it explains that they
44:08
had gotten a court order to give them the go out.
44:13
Question So what do you think is referred to in
44:15
that court documentation? Answer? I guess it must be all
44:18
these documents right here? Question this answer yes, question, So
44:24
what we're actually looking at you think that she's referring to? Answer?
44:29
That's I think that's what she was referring to. Question
44:33
All right, all right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here,
44:36
and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
44:38
gonna pick up where we left off. All the information
44:41
that goes with this episode can be found in the
44:44
description box.