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You Love God—So Why Is It So Hard to Stay Consistent? · The Higher Pursuit Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you think the most challenging thing planting a church?
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've never had to plant a church.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: So what is that?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Swelling your pride.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: So we come from a really awesome 2000-person church in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: So how do we discern the difference between being anxious, worried, striving, and actually just showing up, giving our best, working on that, you know, that cutting edge, that excellence, delivering excellence.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I said it really all comes down to identity.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: We're working from acceptance instead of for acceptance.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we're not serving to become sons and daughters.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: We serve because we already are.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about that?
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally agree.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh the closer we can get to what's in the Bible in God's way instead of our own way.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's like God's patient with us, he's so much grace because we're so dumb.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: We keep trying to present our own.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: We don't listen.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, finally, finally, work is not right anymore.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Time for some blessings and some peace.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: We learned that 20 years earlier.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, what happened that caused you to realize that?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And what did God have to dismantle in you or humble in you to move you from striving to surrender?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about it.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Have you all ever wondered, I genuinely love Jesus, so why is it still so hard for me to stay consistent?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you've ever struggled with spiritual drift, inconsistency, or feeling like your relationship with God has become one more thing that you have to perform at, this conversation is for you.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: My guest in this episode is Jason Heinrich, author of Wake Up Jesus People and creator of the awesome 40 Forge Challenge.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Jason knows what it's like to pursue success and build your own kingdom, and then have God begin shifting you from striving to surrender, from stress to Sabbath, and from performance to presence.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: So today, Jason and I are talking about the rhythms and disciplines that help us stop drifting and intentionally pursue Jesus.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Get ready, guys, for an amazing conversation.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everyone.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Higher Pursuit podcast.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Cecily LaChappelle, and I'm so glad you're here.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you're new to the Higher Pursuit, this podcast and the community that we're building around it is for people who don't simply want to know more about God.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: We want to know God more.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: We want to become people who know how to study his word for ourselves, cultivate his presence in our everyday lives, hear his voice, and develop a vibrant, sustainable walk with Jesus that actually transforms the way we live.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And today's conversation gets right to the heart of that.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because here's the question What happens when you really do love Jesus?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: You really do want a closer relationship with him, but you're struggling to stay consistent.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Why, people, is it so easy to drift?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we develop spiritual rhythms without turning our relationship with Jesus into some kind of religious performance?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we're talking about today.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: But before I introduce today's guest, if these are the kinds of conversations that you want more of, make sure you subscribe and follow the Higher Pursuit podcast wherever you're listening.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you're watching on YouTube, then please like this video, subscribe to the channel, and leave us a comment.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: I want to hear what's speaking to you.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And my guest wants to know what you're going to be putting into practice after he talks.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're listening on Apple Podcasts or another platform that allows it, would you rate and review the show?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Those small actions really do help other people who are hungry for a deeper walk with Jesus discover higher pursuit.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, okay, friends, I am especially excited about today's conversation because my guest message intersects with so much of what we have been talking about on the higher pursuit.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, I want to just say Jason and I are part of a platform that matches podcast guests and hosts.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's called PodMatch.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And Jason was a guest who reached out to me and said, you know, I think that my message aligns with your podcast.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to be a guest on your show.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm getting a ton of these outreaches.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you're welcome.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm throwing out like half of them.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: But when I looked at Jason, uh I looked at his book, his 40 Forge Challenge that he's gonna be talking about.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: I checked him out on YouTube.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I said out loud in my office, right where I'm sitting, where you see me now, I said out loud, oh yes, I want to have you on my show.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm totally excited.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I just also want to tell you that this book, Wake Up Jesus People, that we're gonna be talking about as I have been reading it, because I am one of those podcast hosts that actually purchases the books that my guest writes, because I want to, first of all, support their work.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've written a book.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I know what it takes to write a book.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is not an easy thing to do.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so I want to support them, but I also want to be one of those podcast hosts that's just not just talking out of notes that I got from ChatGPT.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: I want to actually have read what the author has said so that when we come into this interview, I know what I'm talking about.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, as I have read his book, I'm saying out loud, I was sitting by the fire pit with my husband, reading his book the other day.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh my gosh, honey, I've actually said these exact things.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's incredible, almost word for word.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is so incredible how directly we're aligned.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just really pumped to have you all get to know Jason Heinrich, who is the author of Wake Up Jesus People and creator of the 40 Forge Challenge.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Jason is a husband, father, entrepreneur, and ministry leader who has spent nearly 20 years building and leading one of the top producing teams in the direct sales world.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: But despite all that success, Jason came to a realization that radically changed the direction of his life.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: He had been building his own kingdom instead of God's.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder how many of you could say that.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what followed was a journey he describes as moving from striving to surrender, amen, from stress to Sabbath and from performance to presence.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And today, Jason is passionate about helping believers stop spiritually drifting and develop deep, meaningful rhythms with Jesus, from starting the day intentionally with God to Sabbath by fasting, worship, and courageous obedience.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: So through Wake Up Jesus People and the 40 Forge Challenge, he helps people prepare mentally, physically, which I totally love, and spiritually for what God wants to do in and through their lives.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Jason and his wife Abby recently moved their two boys from Wisconsin to Washington to help plant Life Church Northwest.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And Jason, I gotta tell you, I feel like your message and the message of the Higher Pursuit have so many points of intersection.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I have really been looking forward to this conversation.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And welcome to the Higher Pursuit podcast.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Cecily.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's uh I'm I'm like cloud nine right now.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, before we get into your story and the message behind Wake Up Jesus people, I want you to tell us a little bit about who you are today.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Who are you?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: What does life look like right now?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what are you pouring yourself into in this season?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: So as you mentioned, I'm a dad of two, currently a four-year-old and a six-year-old.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: We moved from Wisconsin to Washington, a big culture shock.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: I love the weather out here, but definitely different dynamic of people.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, we were um uh we were given the opportunity to help our pastors plant a church out here.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so we uh you know fasted about it, prayed about it.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it was a few-year process of in the works, but when it got real about a year and a half ago, and they said, Yep, found a spot, yep, we're doing this.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: My wife and I were like, okay, I guess this is real.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: And we're both um kind of homebodies, we're both uh from Wisconsin, didn't think we'd move from Wisconsin ever.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: And as a total God thing of faith, where I thought, you know, I'm comfortable and we're here.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I even tell my wife, like uh about a year, a year before we we made the move of, you know what, life is pretty good.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's pretty comfortable.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like God's gonna shake things up soon.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: He doesn't want, he doesn't call us live a comfortable life.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: And sure enough, sure enough, you know, we had called out here.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's been amazing.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's been so fun, so cool to trust God in the process.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: But so that that's kind of my side hustle, if you will.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: My my wife is an executive pastor, and then we have a couple other pastors on staff.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then um, I'm a direct sales guy with Cutco uh back here.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: So Kutko Cutler, we've been doing that for about 22 years.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh for sure, tried building my own kingdom for a long time, and we can dive into that and fully surrendered in the summer of 2023.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh life's amazing.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very blessed.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: I love it out here.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: I love what God has put on my heart.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: I love helping and challenging people to level up through the 44th challenge and wake up Jesus people.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of uh, I mean a nutshell from what you already said.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's so good.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, what what do you think is like the um most challenging thing of planting a church?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've never had to plant a church.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: So what is that?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: Swell on your pride.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we come from a really awesome 2,000-person church in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's unbelievable.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's great.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: We've we've been there for, you know, we were there for about 12 years.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: We helped run our young adults ministry for a couple of years as well.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um, it's just, you know, our young adults ministry got up to 50 to 60 people.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: It was thriving, it was great.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then we got the call to come out here, and now we have a church of like 30 people.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's been almost a year, and so it's just going, all right, this is not our so my wife and I are both very driven and entrepreneurial.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's like we really want this thing to grow.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: We came in with all of all of this expectation.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: Come from a 2,000-person church.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: We know, we know what what we're doing.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Let's build this thing and let's grow.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: But let's go.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let's go.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: We weren't ready for the humbling, and it's what God needed to do for all of us who are on staff is we came in with a little extra confidence and expectation of our own ability instead of really relying on God.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: And we relied on God, but man, it has been a process of just humbling us and just God reminding us that little by little is good.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, slow doesn't mean stuck.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like we're just moving and trusting God and leading by example and letting God trust us with who he brings in and build our church in a healthy way.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it's it's very humbling, but it's also a really cool, sweet experience.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: We're excited for what God has.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: And we know we have to remind ourselves it's not our church to build, it's it's for his kingdom.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're uh we've been very humbled yet very excited to be able to look back at these moments and see how God grew us and the church and uh his people.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know what it sounds like?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's sounds like God is digging a really deep and wide foundation in the church that you're building.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the part that is not glamorous.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Digging the foundation, restoring foundations, that's that is not the glamorous part of building.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: But if we don't build that, if we don't dig that foundation right, if it's not deep enough, it's not wide enough, then what God wants to build on top, especially high, if we want to build something high and wide, then that foundation can't support it.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like you're gonna just um, you know, dig six six inches down.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's gotta be that really good foundation.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like that's what you're doing, the foundation in you first as pastors, and the foundation in those 30 people who are probably your foundational core people, that the whole rest of this work is going to grow on.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think back on people like um, you know, who have who have churches that have blown up, like Craig Grishel or Matt Chandler or Steven Furtick, they started with 15 people.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And generally started either from youth or young adults, which is really interesting.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: So good for you.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's that is amazing.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure it's gotta be uh tough, like tough work to dig that foundation, but so important.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm glad, you know, it's it's cool to hear you say kind of taking it slow and not having to rush it.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's really awesome.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, listen, you said that in your book, you said that you came to a point when you realized that you were building your own kingdom, not God's.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned that just a second ago.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, what's interesting is that from the outside, your life looked successful.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, what happened that caused you to realize that?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: And what did God have to dismantle in you or humble in you to move you from striving to surrender?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about it.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so there were a few moments.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: The the main one I would say, Cecily, is in 2019.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so I've so I've been working with Coco for a long time, building my own kingdom, addicting.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's been my idol, you know, tons of trophies, all these things, and you know, put my identity in this title and in this job.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I claimed God was number one, but I wasn't living like it.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my job was number one, my identity, my success, and and income, and all that.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so in 2019, I got promoted to be what's called um basically a division manager where I went from running my own office to now ever seeing like a full state.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: Really great promotion, something I've been pursuing for a long time.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then it I was stagnant for about uh well when COVID hit too.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, that was a big change up with everyone and going from mainly uh an in-person role to mainly virtual.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then also in 2020, we had our first child, and then uh 2022, our our second child.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so throughout this whole process of 2019 to 2023, about it was just you know, same, same uh like zero growth, same 1.5 million in in business each year, not really growing, hid my head up against, you know, a hard place.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: And uh just like what is going on, just striving and being used to figuring out, figuring things out on my own.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it not working.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was just stressful.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I wasn't being a great present dad.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'd been numbing myself for a long time with either a weed gummy or a couple of drinks at night.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: So nothing that was getting me, you know, drunk or blazed or things that were where I wasn't myself, but I definitely was a justification.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it definitely was something that I justified.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm working so hard, I'm so stressed, my mind's almost going, I have to turn this thing off.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Let me take the the uh the edge off.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, my wife challenged me for years on that, and um, that was a big cleansing moment that had to happen in the summer of 2023.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: But uh basically, all came to a point where stressed out, a new, you know, young young kids trying to trying to lead a great marriage, um, you know, in work, just stagnant.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so finally in uh 2023 was a breaking point where I'm like, I just don't know if I can do this anymore.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I told my manager, hey, I don't know if I'm quitting this job, but I definitely can't keep doing it in the way that I'm doing and in the role that that I am.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was about a year process of me getting a demotion, and I feel really excited about that because I feel like a lot of people have a midlife crisis.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I had a midlife awakening where it was, okay, I'm gonna fully surrender God.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna stop striving for my titles, my accolades, and I'm just gonna go, you know what?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna, and it's it is so rare.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know anyone in my 22 years that I know of who have taken a demotion in the job.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because your sales, it's all about pride and ego, right?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Number one.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so I took a step back, and it it was such a cleansing and it was such so much freedom.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I also stopped my my numbing myself at night, and I really focused on myself.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: I got rebaptized in August of 2023, and so it was like uh this whole like moment in the summer of 2023, just trying to build my own kingdom and being so stressed, frazzled out, that um it was just so much, so much relief when I did that.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: And guess what happened?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: 2024, we had our best year ever.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: 2025, best year ever.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: This year, I'm in our best year ever, one of the top offices in the country.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: When I just released it and said, okay, God, I'm actually surrendering to you.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm not gonna keep working more.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna try to do it on my own ability.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna work my butt off and do my best to be my best, but I'm going to do it not as um, you know, I'm gonna do it after surrendering to you.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's been awesome.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: On my live stream last night, we're we've been talking about the Sermon on the Mount for a couple weeks.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so last night's was about anxiety and worry, where Jesus is saying, you know, do not be anxious.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: You the the Gentiles strive and seek and perform and run themselves on the ragged on the hamster wheel, striving for all these things.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Your father in heaven knows you need them.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: So don't worry about them.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Don't be anxious about all of these things.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so we we talked last night on the live stream about, well, I mean, we are supposed to show up for life.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're supposed to do a good job.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do we discern the difference between being anxious, worried, striving, and actually just showing up, giving our best, working on that, you know, that cutting edge, that excellence, delivering excellence.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I said it really all comes down to identity.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: If our identity is in our work, then we will be running ourselves into the ground because we're holding so tightly.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is our identity.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's not our identity, we can work it really well, but we're not working, we're working from acceptance instead of for acceptance.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're working from a position of identity, not for an identity.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we're not serving to become sons and daughters.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: We serve because we already are.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about that?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: What is your take on that?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally agree.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh the closer we can get to what's in the Bible and God's way instead of our own way.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's like God's so patient with us is so much grace because we're so dumb.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: We keep trying to present our own.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: We don't listen.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, Finally, finally, work is not right anymore.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: Time for some blessings and some peace.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, we should learn that 20 years earlier.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, listen, you're still young buck, mister.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you just you just know that I've way older than you and I'm still learning some of these lessons.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like the whole lesson of surrender is so key.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: I tell you, during my book launch, I had to learn that all over again because there were way too many things for me to get done.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, if this if this book is gonna launch properly, like I'm doing this for you, God, I'm doing this for you.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to get the word out, I'm trying to help people.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And God is like, you're doing it for me, but you're not doing it with me.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: You want to try doing it with me?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because I would never call you to make yourself so stinking, miserable, and not sleeping, working too hard, not resting, you know, crying, having mental breakdowns.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not me.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to just be like, whoa, I had to check myself before I wreck myself because I am on a really bad track here.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it was all it that just wasn't God.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to learn to do what you did and just surrender it.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: So better late than never on that lesson.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you spent so much of your professional life teaching people how to achieve, and now you're teaching people how to surrender.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, has following Jesus changed your definition of what it means to win?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I would like to clarify it even more.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: How can we distinguish genuine God-given calling from ambition that we simply baptized with Christian language?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think so.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: So now that I'm teaching, so it's it's different because I'm not teaching a bunch of Christians.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's a bunch of young people, basically 18 to 24 for most of them, and they are still very worldly.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I love being able to do some Jesus seeds and plant some seeds in there and let them know it's cool to be a Christian and talk about that openly in my office uh and with and with my team.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: But it for sure has to be a reminder.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm constantly having these conversations with people on my team that, hey, what like where's your where's your free time?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Where's your you time?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: You're scheduling all these other things.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: I don't see any you time in there, I don't see any Sabbath time in there, I don't see any Jesus time.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like reminding them that uh at least for me too, if it's not in the schedule, it's probably not happening.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I even kind of trick myself where I have to put in family time, you know, wife time, church time.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I my my brain can switch off the hustle and the ambition and go to just peace.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: And also gives me, gives me margin then to know like, hey, nothing is ever getting done.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: I've never gotten to the end of a day and gone, wow, it's finished.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: I got It's all done.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: There's always more.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like just knowing when that cutoff time is and then when I can switch to that next, um, that that that the next thing that fuels me, gives me peace, gives me joy, and all of that.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: So for the first part of the question, say Cecily, is the helping these people know that it's okay to have you time, it's okay to have rest time.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: And if they are Jesus people, being able to say, hey, are you like, why are you skipping church to make phone calls?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: Or why are you not taking a day off?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like you should be resting to actually make you fresher and better for when you are working.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that that's that's the answer to the first part of your question.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: The second one, I forgot.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, uh the second part was how do we distinguish the genuine God-given calling from ambition that we just simply baptized with Christian language?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: Cause yeah, it's it's we are I I faked it for a long time, or I justified.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doing this for God.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm working so hard so I can be a light for others in my in my office, and I'm gonna, you know, help these people sell a lot, and then, you know, say, you know, mention a Jesus thing here and there.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just a justification.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: But when it comes to that, I think we have to have boundaries, as I was kind of mentioning, like for now.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, I have a Sabbath every week.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: I only work from 9:30 till 4:30.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Being able to drop my boys off and then pick them up is is my is my boundaries.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I love it.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's always more things to to to to get done.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: But when it comes to that, I'd say one of the things that's really helped is um through our pastors in church, they've identified like the five priorities of how you should like look at um your your your your time and your choices.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: So one is God, two is actually you, because you have to be your best self in order to help everyone else below you.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so the whole oxygen thing on the on the on the plate, on the uh but then it's and then it's significant other, like wife and then kids, and then family or spiritual family.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so the way you look at it is looking at it like uh like a faucet.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: So if God is the faucet, you can turn them, it's your choice, you can turn them on or not, turn them on to fill you up, and then everyone else only gets your overflow.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like then that trickles down to your wife.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: And when you and your wife, your significant other, are great, it's gonna help you be better for your kids.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you trickle that down, it's gonna help you be great for your family and spiritual family.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, are you setting boundaries?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: And are there guidelines and are there biblical principles that help you stay on this rhythm and this pace that is not all about you pursuing?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Now, when you're working, pursue it.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: Get after it, think big, big dreams, believe in God's abundance.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: But are you then putting in, like, is work, if I looked at your calendar, right?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: And your schedule, you know, it will show your priorities.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so are you putting work in front of church or the Sabbath or kids' soccer games or your health?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, amen, amen.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And here's one of the ways that what you talk about and higher pursuit is so aligned, because that's actually why I named this ministry higher pursuit, because there are so many things that we can spend our lives pursuing, and they're good things.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: But if those pursuits are flipped, if we have our pursuits upside down, if they displace the pursuit of Jesus, then we've exchanged the higher thing for something lesser.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: All right, well, let's talk about something that I hear from Christians all the time, and that's consistency.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: They say, I love God, I want to pray, I want to read my Bible, I want to spend daily time with Jesus, but I just can't seem to stay consistent.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, why do you think that there's often such a large gap between our desire for God and our daily disciplines?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's a few reasons.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: One is I think we so it's it's the it's the isolating instances is one of them.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: So we isolate that instance to the one time of like, I'm just gonna have this donut this one time, just gonna excuse that that one time.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just going to uh skip Bible time that one time.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: I skip church this one Sunday, but it turns into a habit.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not realizing the pattern of well, what's really happening here?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: Is it really just this day, or is it a consistent thing?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that's one thing.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, another thing would be just priorities.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, it's like a lot of times we will fall to our temptation and what we desire in the moment, which is usually not reading the Bible or working hard or getting up early.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like having those intentions ahead of time.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm just going into the day going, yeah, I'll work out at some point, or yeah, I'm gonna read my Bible at some point, I'm always gonna push it off to something, you know, to a later time and it gets too late, I'm too tired, it's not gonna happen.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, any almost anything that's really important to me, and that's a priority, I'm gonna do first thing.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: First thing in the morning.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I do something called a sacred start.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it is um basically your morning time, it's sacred, whether it's 30 minutes, 60 minutes, meets a couple hours of every morning staying consistent of the very important things that are gonna make me write.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: And they consist of, if you think of P, B, and J.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: So prayer, Bible, exercise, journaling, affirmations from scripture.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: So P, B, E, and J.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I love paper and jelly.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: The um, so that helps.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: And every morning getting up and doing that, and I love the quietness, I love the peace, I love the serenity of it.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm showing God, I'm giving him the first 10% of my day.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and I'm making it a priority.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm getting up, getting after it, and I love it, I crave it, I'm off if I don't do it.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's rare that I don't do it, but it's that I've intentionally told myself every night, tomorrow is important, I'm gonna get it done.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: Because once the kids get up, and once life happens, it's over.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's over.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it's almost like anything that's real important, like writing a book, right?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: I had to, I was normally wake up at 5 a.m.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: And when I was writing the book for the first six months of 2024, I think it was, it's like I had to wake up at 4:30 to get my writing time in to get 30 minutes in a day, because that's what was for sure gonna happen.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I just think people don't make it as important or a priority.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: So they don't put in their schedule, they don't, they don't set intentions and they just willy-nilly go, well, yeah, my intention is to do this.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: I hope this goes well.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then they don't make it uh priority.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: If it's not on somebody's calendar, it's not gonna happen.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I have taught this so many times that um it will we'll make a calendar appointment for a doctor's appointment or a dentist appointment six months from now.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: But we need to have calendar appointments for our sacred space time because otherwise, like you said, it's just it's just a wish and a prayer.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not even a wish and a prayer, it's just a hope.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't come about.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: What we schedule, and I always tell people, if you have to move your scheduled sacred space time or secret place or whatever you want to call it, um, then then you can move it.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's if it's on your calendar, you can move it somewhere else and it's more likely to happen.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's just uh a thought that you think when you're in a good mood, oh yes, I I'm gonna wake up tomorrow and I'm gonna have time with the Lord, when it when the alarm goes off, that good mood isn't there anymore.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have the emotion backing you up, and you will find every excuse in the book for why you're gonna keep hitting snooze or why you can start tomorrow and on and on.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, second question for you, Jason.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what do you say to the person who does start strong, but then who misses a few days, then they feel guilty, and then they eventually give up.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: So two things give yourself grace.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: You are not perfect, uh, you know, pursue progress over perfection.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the little visuals of my book talks about like what it looks like to be um, you know, to be you know, to make daily, daily progress.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just like a circle that's filled up each day.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: And some days it's big, sometimes it's it's filled up, sometimes it's small or medium, but it's just showing up.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so some days, you know, it might be a full intense workout, and some days it might be a 30-minute walk, a 15-minute walk.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like just that you showed up and you did it is one thing.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: So give yourself grace.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: You can always start over, you can always, you know, and if you look at where you were prior, you're probably way ahead now that you're actually trying to stay on track with something than you were before when you had no intention.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's number one is you give yourself grace.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: The second is to get on streaks.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm a big streak guy where I love to keep track of streaks.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's not it's not legalistic, but it's like a fun challenge.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, it's like, what is the minimum that you can get on the habit of doing?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: And before you know it, it becomes becomes just part of your life.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, let's say sure you want to work out an hour a day, or sure you want to lose 50 pounds, whatever.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: But what's the minimum you could do daily?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, no matter what, and maybe it's your streak is just to get to the gym every day.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Show up.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: And there's some days you're like, oh, I'm 14 days in a row.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't feel like working at all.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: I have to show up to keep my 15th day of my streak.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna show up.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: And they just get on the treadmill for five minutes and all of a sudden they're they're jogging.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: All of a sudden they're finishing their workout because they're there in the environment.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it changes things.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, your goal might be a 45-minute intense workout, but how about your streak is just getting to the gym every day?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: How about your streak is just reading the verse of the day in the Bible app every day?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, you want to do a study, sure you're sure you want to do 15 minutes, but what's the bare minimum that you know you can you can keep that habit?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: And some days it might only be open up verse today, cool.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: I keep my Bible streak, sweet, I'm good.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Most days you're gonna do the full plan or you're gonna not feel like it and get started like, well, just just one more.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, oh, that's interesting.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't think about that.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go look into that.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I like to teach people how to get on streaks, and then a lot of apps now track them.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: But you can get um, there's uh a habit share app that I like to use.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's fun.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: And even my kids, like my six-year-old is on like 100 and some days of of Bible reading, and because he's daddy doing it, so I'm so proud of that.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: He just finished his uh through the Bible, um, through the Bible, new new new New Testament in the Bible app this morning.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's like it's so cool because he sees that he wants to go to the have a chair and check it off, and it's um it's fun.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I just like to keep so awareness, right?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of times are just unaware or the isolating instances.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: If you actually tracked it, you're like, oh, I thought I was doing fine because my intentions are to read my Bible every day, but I'm actually reading it like once a week.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: This is not good.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: Now that awareness fuels your decisions, so now you can actually change them.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: So awareness is is is uh is half half that battle.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, it totally is.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know that any time that I've gotten off track with my eating and you know, put on some pounds, and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, you know, the it with at a certain age, the pounds don't just drop off like they used to.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: I used to just have this super high metabolism running around after little kids, house cleaning, doing all those things that, you know, a bad vacation of eating, no big deal.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's not the case.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now I sit all day and I'm older, my metabolism is slower.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I found that anytime that I come back from vacation and I'm like, ah, Snapple, this does not look good, then what am I gonna do?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: I get out my my track, my my app, my food tracking app.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I just get when I get diligent about that, it makes so much difference because the little, the bite of this, the tablespoon of peanut butter over here, or the you know, slice of whole wheat bread over there, or that bowl of cereal that I now have to measure out, it all adds up.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the same, I I love what you're saying because when we're tracking our habits, then not only can we see where we're dropping off, it becomes visually apparent, but we can also, I love that what you just said about streaks.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: We can also give ourselves some kudos and be like, all right, go you, you know, 10 days straight reading the Bible.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is awesome.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I think that's excellent.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I think maybe what we'll have to do is have you share some of those apps.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: We'll put them in the description so people can find some of the apps that you're using because that habit sharing app, I mean, I want it, I want that right now.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's phenomenal.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that leads me to something that I've taught about before, and that is the drift.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: And Jason, this idea of drifting that resonates so deeply with me because I actually taught an entire message called From Spiritual Drift to Sacred Rhythm.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I learned is that spiritual drift isn't usually dramatic.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: We don't, like you said, wake up one morning and decide, I'm just not pursuing God anymore.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not failing it.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: The drift is so gradual.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Our hunger cools gradually, other things become louder.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Time with God gets pushed to the margins, one decision at a time.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually we look up and realize that we have moved so much farther from the intimacy, the you know, white hot, fiery faith, the zeal for the Lord that we had before.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Our worship now is routine, mundane.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: We walk into a worship service and we're like, I kind of can't connect.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: And as I said in that message, and I've said before, we have to decide first, and then grace follows.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I can't wait until I feel hungry before I pursue God.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I have to just decide to show up.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then I discover that his grace is waiting for me there.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, Jason, what are some of the early warning signs that you've identified that you would tell somebody they're spiritually drifting?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then what do they do when they recognize them?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a couple of things that come to mind.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: One is one thing for your listeners is that you you are never the same.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: You are always in every year of your life, every day, you're getting better or worse with every decision.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: There is no staying stagnant.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: So just realize that you can't just stay there and think, oh, I'm good because I'm still the same as yesterday.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: No, you are you are getting worse or getting better with every day and every decision.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: So know that if you're not getting better, you are getting worse.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: So not to um don't want to get negative, but uh, but that is true.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then for a story to lead into this, um, so I was engaged before my current marriage.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: And this is back in my 20s.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was it was all based on sex, fun, pleasures.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: It was within six months uh asking her to marry me.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: It was within a few months of meeting her.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I had a few non-Christian roommates talk about a recipe for disaster in your 20s.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and they were doing a bunch of crazy stuff that I also was participating in some of it.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then she was too.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then they're like, she's awesome, she needs a place to live.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: Let's have her live with us.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I never, never Cecily thought I'd I was, I promised, right, when I was younger, like I wouldn't have someone move in with me, I wouldn't live in sin, things like that.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: And of course I did.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so then I asked her to marry me.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then it and it was all like every day, every day, 1% worse.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: The devil got me, 1% worse, 1% worse.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and settling and and rest like like on my morals, just slowly chipping away, 1%, very conniving, very sneaky, how the devil does.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: He got in that crack, made it bigger and bigger to where it got to be Cecily, like two months before the wedding.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd seen some warning signs, kind of the whole way through, but the the the the that soul tie and that lock and the pleasures and the fun blinded me.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so got to the point where I'm like, okay, we're going through premarital counseling.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, what do you mean you don't agree with this?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: Or what do you mean you're waiting you're sick almost every Sunday?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, of course, partially hungover, but also sometimes just didn't want to go.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, wait a second.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm trying to be this great Christian over here.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: You're um, you know, you're over here worldly.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then we're both kind of compromising for each other.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: So as now we had to get serious with the wedding and we had to start making decisions, start living, and I'm like, wait a second, what's happening here?
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was really nervous, but I called it off two months prior.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I was so thankful that God woke me up because it was the slow drift, just little by little, until all of a sudden you're in a point where you're you don't realize how you got there.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like boiling a frog, right?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, so so with that, it's like I think um so the devil's gonna find whatever crack he can to get in and and get in and you know stop you from being a Christian, stop you from from being a great parent, stop you from from going to church, reading your Bible and all that.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: So um, with that drifting, I think it's just a matter of taking time for some for some some some inventory.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so whether you journal, whether you're talking with a friend, whether you're in a church life group, just actually taking time to like look at how I am doing in these areas.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of times we're just numbing ourselves with social media or substances and things, and or we're we're going, we're running, going, going, going.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: We don't take time to sit and be present and pray and journal and actually be aware of that.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what I'd say is to make make space and actually pray about and ask, God, you know, reveal to me where am I drifting, reveal to me where these cracks are, and then you can start working on it.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the things that we talk about on the higher pursuit all the time is the importance of being able to hear the voice of God.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: So many Christians don't think that they can or they question, but it really is, you you really do practice God's presence.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: You gain uh the ability to hear Him more clearly through practicing, through sitting down and saying, Lord, is there something that you want to say to me about this, about my discipline or whatever the area is?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then I just encourage people, just start writing.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Don't edit, don't self-edit, just write and then shut the journal or turn off your iPad or however you journal and don't look at it for a day.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then go back and reread what the Lord said to you.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: And nine times out of 10, you're gonna say, Oh my goodness, that really is God.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because that doesn't sound at all like me.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, that was a whole lot nicer to me than I would be.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: And there's wisdom in there that I didn't know before.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I obviously didn't make that up.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then I also encourage people, if you have any questions about whether you're hearing from God, find somebody who does hear from God and run it by them.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: Say, this is what I think God is talking to me.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Am I on the right track?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: Am I am I hearing from God?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of times we question and we think, Am I making this up?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is this me?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is this the devil?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is this God?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the only way to get better at being sure that you're hearing from God is to sit with the Lord and give him opportunities to speak.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you build a history with God and you build confidence in the fact that I do hear his voice.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: And this is, I I can sit down and ask God questions and he will totally speak to me because he wants to.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: He's a father.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're a child of God, you can hear your father's voice.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're in the family, you speak the language of heaven now.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: You just might not completely understand that you speak it, that you hear it, but you'll grow, you'll grow in that ability.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: But Jason, there's another tension that I wanted to talk about.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: You talk about developing discipline, but you also describe your journey as moving from performance to presence.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you distinguish between spiritual discipline discipline that flows from your devotion?
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: You discern like you distinguish that from religious performance that's trying to earn something from God.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: And can prayer, Bible reading, fasting, um, all of those things, having that sacred start, can even something like the 40 forge challenge become performance-based if our heart isn't in the right place?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think anything.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you look in the Bible, the Pharisees and the Sadducees, right?
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: They were doing whitewash tombs.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you easily, I mean, it's like, so are you?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_02: The question is, when you do these things, who are you hoping sees it?
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, say that again.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: Say that again.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was money.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: When you're praying, when you're reading the Bible, when you're showing up to church, like, is it always an Instagram photo of you at church?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: Is it always like it's sometimes you see these Instagram photos of these perfectly well thought out, done, like all the highlighters, their coffee and their Bible out?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, is if it's that big of a deal, is this the one time you've done it all year?
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because it sure looks like this perfect setup.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, are you are you posting about it for everyone else?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: Or um Is it just between you and God?
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: Now, also are you are you discipling people?
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: Are you sharing on podcasts?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: Are you showing your kids all of that is different?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like modeling is different than like showing off.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, you know, I sometimes I have to check myself too.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, am I just trying to impress someone or am I trying to really help them?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, so who are you hoping sees this?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: Do you care if anyone sees it other than God?
• 44:26
  unknown: Yeah.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully it's just for God.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then of course, uh, you know, your your family's gonna see it and you're gonna disciple them and help them out too.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's uh that's really all I think about is are you telling everyone about it?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: Are you posting about it?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: Is it more of a big deal that it looks perfect and everyone knows, or is it just time with you between you and God?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes Christians can become so afraid of legalism because you know, we've heard about the Pharisees and the Sadducees and how Jesus was all like down on them because they were legalistic and they had turned all of the heart of God into religious um works that didn't that were completely void of the love in the heart of God.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I think sometimes we can become so afraid of that that we accidentally become suspicious of discipline and feel like, well, I, you know, if the Holy Spirit is in it, I will just fly with the dove.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I will just, if the Holy Spirit wakes me up in the morning, then I will wake up and pray.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: But if he doesn't, then I'm gonna sleep in.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: But the question I think in behind legalism, what makes it legalistic to your point is what is driving it?
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: Am I doing this like your point was, am I doing this to be seen?
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I would even add, am I doing this to earn God's love?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Or am I ordering my life around someone I already love?
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like in a marriage, you know, I'm sure there are things that you do for your wife, and you're not doing it out of a legalistic sense of trying to stay out of trouble.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe some things you probably do.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I don't do this, I will incur the wrath of Abby.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I will do these things.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it could maybe touch on some legalism.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: But even that, it's because you want to maintain an intimate love life with your wife.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want there to be disappointment or discouragement, or you don't want her to be stressed out and have to carry the weight of everything.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: You want to be there to support her.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so, if I think for all the things that we do, if we're trying to have a deeper connection to the love of God, we want to feel it like that.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: I love your bathtub analogy.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: We want to turn that spigot on so we can be full of the love of God.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then all of our works are done because we just want to flow over with what we've been filled with.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's any way we would flow, we would um get into a legalistic place.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: But that legalism isn't the same thing as discipline.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope higher pursuit tribe, I hope that's one of your big takeaways from everything that that Jason and I have said so far is that there is a there is a priority, there is a place for discipline.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: We're pretty sure both of us are convinced that without discipline in our life, without godly habits, without godly routine, you will not endure, you will not finish well.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be like that good soldier that has a single eye, that you are focused on what God has called you to do and who God has called you to be, and focused on per passionately pursuing his presence and not letting the world distract you.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what's gonna happen.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like Jason said, nothing evolves without effort.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: Everything will naturally in this world devolve.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: So if we're not fighting against the stream, we're going backwards.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: You pull your oars up and you're going downstream.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the way it is.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: We've got to keep rowing against the tide that wants to take us into distraction, wants to take us into worldliness, wants to take us into self-love and comfort and all that.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: So moving on.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, two things to add if I can.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, please do.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: Did you know that discipline and disciple come from the same root word in Greek disciples?
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, say that.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, the disciples were disciplined.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: Discipline is a great thing.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of talk in the Bible about discipline.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: And basically, the disciples were following Jesus for three years, learning the disciplines of being a great Jesus person.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: And Jocko Willink talks about now in his book, you know, discipline equals freedom.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: The the it's a like seems like an oxymoron, but the you know, the the more disciplined you are, the more freedom you have, right?
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: So the more disciplined you are in working out and exercise, the more freedom you have because you're not sick, you're not in the hospital, and you're able to have more energy.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: So that discipline equals that.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, something that may help your listeners too is the discipline of my morning sacred start allows me to have that freedom and space because it isn't legalistic that I have to do it.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: It is the discipline of doing it allows me to create this sacred space to be open and to hear from God and to spend time and not just do it because I'm on my way to work and I just do it quick or not do it because I'm supposed to check it off and I feel bad and guilty.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: It is the that that space that that I get to just be free, like I get to have that that sacred space because of the discipline that got me there.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: That is so, so great.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: You made me think you mentioned a book.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I can't remember what the title is you just mentioned, but Discipline Equals Freedom.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: I that made me think of a book that I read years ago by Elizabeth Elliott called Discipline, the Glad Surrender.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I need to get that book back out because I know it's on my shelf.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's in my library somewhere.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: But when a title comes back to my memory, a lot of times it's the Holy Spirit say, add that to the bedside pile.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because you got to get back into that one.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: Such a such a good book.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you in your book, you use this beautiful phrase from stress to Sabbath.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: And Sabbath is something that God has really been talking to me about.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I could say that I faithfully Sabbath every week.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a lot more aware of carving out that time.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: But we live in a culture that celebrates productivity, hustle, accomplishment, comparison, striving, performance, all that.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, what did Sabbath teach you about God and about yourself and how um what striving couldn't do that Sabbath does?
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's the peace and joy.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh when I worked hard.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_02: So back in my early 20s when I was a new manager, I'd be working 12 hour days from 7:30 a.m.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: till 7.30 p.m., Monday through Friday.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: Saturday was my early day off by like 5:30.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then Sunday, right after church, I go back to the office at 2 p.m.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so I didn't even have a 24-hour time off.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: But I loved it.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: It was my identity.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: I craved it as my drug.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_02: It was my like, I thrived from and loved it.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, wasn't healthy spiritually, but uh back in my young 20s, it was uh what what what I knew and what I wanted.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_02: Now for that, I was never, I would not use the words peace and joy.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: And when I think about how filled with just uh, it's not that I don't care, it's that I'm fully trusting God over myself.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't say that I can I can say that every day.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, but most days it's yeah, I'm trusting God over over, I'm trusting him over myself.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: I know I'm flawed and I know I don't, I don't know it all.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a lot of things that I'm hoping that happen that aren't there, I want dreams and goals that are that are big where it can only be explained by God.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want it to be like, okay, yeah, it's because Jason was great.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's because I trusted in God and I had some play in it, and I was surrendered and I listened, and I used my God-given talents and worked hard, but I'm just gonna try leaving it up to him.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: So with the whole surrender thing with the Sabbath, again, it's are you I'd much rather have God's blessings on the whole week or on six days than uh um all of my effort on seven days.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: And meaning he, he, I the what it teaches me about God is how awesome he is and how much he's there for us, and how when you read the Bible, he didn't make the Sabbath to be legalistic.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't make it to be for him, it was for us because he needed, he, he wanted us to rest and knew that he wanted we wanted time to praise God and be with our families and and be filled with joy.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I have those those weekly rhythms of a Sabbath, it is just, it is, it just fills me up and it makes me excited to go back to work because I had a day or two off.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_02: And again, before I used to work a lot, and now pretty much um, you know, from you know Friday at like 4 30 p.m., I'm not really working again.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'll do some planning.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'll do a little bit of prep work here and there, but I have I have nothing scheduled.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: I have no plans to do any kind of work.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's all family stuff, church stuff, chill time.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I come back to Monday refreshed and refueled and excited.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it just, I I tried to do it on my own for so long, Cecily, but I just can't, I mean, I can't reiterate to your listeners enough is that the peace and joy that came from that, the um now the the the the the the love in our family, the time with my family and that sacred space again, it's like yeah, man, that's that's that's that's way better than any trophy, any bonus, any accolade, any title.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's been so refreshing.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I've really only fully surrendered since you know 2023, a few years ago.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I mean, three years, that's that's something.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's quite a track record of keeping that going.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like that Sabbath isn't going anywhere in your family because it's here to stay.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's so incredible.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: Every single person I talk to that has Sabbath consistently says the exact same thing, that they come into their week much more refreshed, much more energized.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um I would imagine for me, when I finally um make a decision on how and when a weekly Sabbath will happen, not just the one-off here and there, but an actual weekly routine that I commit to.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: I imagine the the first thing that's gonna fall away is anxiety.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think um for me, running almost every day.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Sunday is very, very close to a Sabbath for me because I do not go into my ministry emails, which for me is my because I'm a ministrypreneur.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: So um my ministry emails, my personal inbox becomes like a work email.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't I don't touch those things.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not looking at YouTube or Substack or any of the places, Instagram, Facebook, any of the places where I show up ministry-wise, because for me, it's not a personal account that I'm looking at.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking at my ministry account.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't touch those things.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: I shut technology pretty much off on Sunday, and it's about being in the Lord's house, ministering to God's people, fellowshipping with God's people, being with family.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's very, very close to a full-on Sabbath, but I don't declare it that yet.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to say that on that day, I feel so much peace.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: I do feel like my tank is getting refilled.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: I I it's definitely something I want to study more about.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'd also say it's it's up to someone, you know, then give yourself grace, but also all the listeners too.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, well, where could you start?
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe it's it's you do one hour of of work or it's something where you could also mean back.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, just know it could be Sunday, it could be Saturday.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: The Jewish should the Jewish should the Sabbath is you know sundown Friday to the or yeah, sundown Friday to sun sundown Saturday.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: Is that what you do?
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh no, so for me, it's so to be frank, uh, it's typically Sundays, but um, we since oh out here planting a church, you know, it's like you're actually like working, if you will, um like five hours for setup, teardown, things like that.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I really turned my Saturday into a family Sabbath and then my Sunday into like a church Sabbath.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so um I mean, I don't do anything on Saturdays other than pretty much family time and hangout time, and um, that's very refreshing as well.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's really kind of I kind of like a Sabbath weekend.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I wouldn't say I am fully devoting a whole day to just, you know, just peace and joy in him and probably the way God intended it, to be honest.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_02: But I I would say it's uh it's pretty much just God and family for a couple days.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: That is so great.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: That is so awesome.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would I'd love to pick your brain more about that uh offline.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, let's talk about your book because the title itself is a challenge.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna show people your book one more time.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: Here it is Wake Up Jesus People.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so, what are you asking the church to wake up from?
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: And what are you calling them to wake up to?
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: What's the story?
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: Heck yeah.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, as you kind of point out, it's two angles.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, one is the morning wake up.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's that sacred start, it's uh, you know, prayer, Bible, exercise, journal, and affirmations from scripture.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's every morning waking your butt up to get up, start your day with Jesus, tithe or give your first like 10% to him, um, make him a priority.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_02: There's disciplines in there about, you know, a necessary night as well to set up.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: Really, your morning starts.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love that, by the way.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of my dog years of the necessary night.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you're, and really, if you think about it, again, in Jewish days or back in in Jesus' times, it was the day started the previous night when the sun went down.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_02: So if we think about our evening as a setup to wake up the the next day, so this is a bonus tip that fully in your question.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, for me at 9:20, my alarm goes off.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it's my it's my evening alarm that's more important to me than my morning alarm.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because if I'm up late scrolling or watching things, you know, it's gonna set yourself up for failure because you still need sleep, you still need to be healthy.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, what is your evening routine that sets up your morning routine to help you wake up, get your butt up, no excuses, and get the things in that are gonna make you, and you don't have to do the full sacred start.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's literally five minutes of prayer time, five minutes of Bible time, and like a 15-minute walk.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you're doing it all at the same time.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: If you just start your day with just that and wake up and get good, like you're filling yourself up so you're better for everyone else.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that's one point, and there's a lot of disciplines in the book around that.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: But the other part, Cecily, is waking up because we are sleepwalking, we are zombies, we are not in the game, we're not in the fight, we are right where the devil wants us, is distracted, numb, not in the game, thinking we're thinking we're just fine, and coasting.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_02: And the analogy, I don't know if it's from Billy Graham or who, but talked he talked about the whole stadium analogy.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, there are tens of thousands of spectators, but there's only a handful of people in the game, on the field.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to be on the field, I want to be in the game.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to just you know be there and watch what God's doing.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be a part of what God's doing.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_02: And too many Jesus people are on the sidelines watching.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the stats show that Jesus people go to church 1.6 times a month.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: So they're going once a month.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: That is not great.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_02: And and they're coming to church to get filled up.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, that that's your if you only eat once a week, right?
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: This analogy from church, you're gonna starve to death.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_02: So you should be doing your own Bible time, your own Jesus time daily.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then churches where you come to celebrate and worship God with your people.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so we need to be doing that.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_02: We need to wake up and we have to uh be courageous, we have to, you know, be ready to to uh defend our faith, but also it's gotten easier and easier.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_02: So it in both ways.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it's gotten harder and easier at the same time.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_02: I like in my journal, things I'm thankful for just this morning was was the was the UVersion Bible app, was one of the things.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I think about all of the resources we have, all of these awesome, popular celebrities and YouTubers and podcasters, and uh really good Jesus music now.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um we're in such a spot where where people, like even if they deny Jesus, or they're a lot of them, I think, are just confused and they're unsure.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_02: More more than, or they have some church hurt or something more more more than they don't believe in Jesus.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_02: They just need to be loved on and brought to church and show what a true you know Jesus person is.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: But side note in that, but it's like um if uh I lost my train of thought there, but um, yeah, we just need to uh wake up because we're on the sidelines and we're not getting getting in in the game.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, I want you know, I want there to be a lot of extra people in heaven with me because of me.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, make heaven crowded for sure.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_02: Make it crowded.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, yeah, that's the wake up part.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, higher pursuit tribe.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, wake up doesn't have to be that mess message of condemnation, which is obviously not what Jason is saying at all, but it can actually be the voice of someone with a capital S who loves you, who's saying, Hey, listen, there's so much more available.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: Don't sleep through what I've invited you into.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm inviting you into an adventure, I'm inviting you into a life that I created for you that is so much deeper, broader, more satisfying and fulfilling than anything the world can offer.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: So wake up, wake up to who I've called you to be.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that that wake up can only happen if we actually wake up and whatever time that is, and have the time with the Lord and allow him to ignite your reignite your pilot.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's so funny.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, here in the Northeast, we have a gas fireplace, and I love it because there's no wood, there's no ash, there's no, you know, flu that has that has to be clean and all of the things.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: Just click that little button and instant heat and ambiance.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's lovely.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, so we have it, a pilot in there, a little pilot light, and that obviously is very important.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if the pilot light goes out, either because we had a high wind that did come down the chimney and blew the pilot light out, or we turn it off during the summer, we don't need that thing going.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: My husband's got to you know open the bottom and he has to relight the pilot and it takes a little minute.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so if your pilot light has gone out, either because you shut it off, you didn't realize you were, but your habits, your lifestyle, just you thought, well, I don't need that on right now.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't realize it, but you turned that pilot off, or a big gust of wind, some something hit your life, and you thought you were fighting for your life when you actually were turning that pilot light off.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: The Lord, the Holy Spirit wants to reignite your pilot so you can click that fire on with your daily discipline.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just encouraging you, go back to the presence of the Lord, ask him to reignite you.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: And just like Jason was describing what happened with him a few years ago, what just that that motion of surrender, that turning back to him, that's all it takes.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's all that's all it takes.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: And wait to see what the Lord does with you.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, Jason, talk to us now about the 40 forge challenge.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us what it is, why you chose 40 days, and what you're hoping gets forged in someone in the in during that time.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, many things.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_02: So throughout uh throughout my life, I feel like I've thrived on challenges and a focused challenge.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_02: And throughout throughout the book, so I I was leading a young or leading uh a guy's um life group essentially for a few years on these concepts and everything.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I was giving them this challenge.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I was telling them it's basically uh uh what was it called?
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_02: It was um it wasn't very good, but I basically gave them a challenge at the end, said, All right, you've learned this stuff now, kind of stuff in the book, uh, but a little bit dumbed down.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so now go out and now actually live this out.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's a challenge.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_02: And um yeah, it's not coming to me, the the name of it.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_02: It was so bad.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, I was I was writing the book and I was praying and fasting about the book before I was like, okay, God, is this done?
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_02: What else do you want in it?
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_02: And sure enough, two chapters that came in to my mind was fasting as I was praying and fasting about it, and then also um the 40 forge challenge.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I have done a lot of challenges before.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of your listeners may have heard of the 75 hard challenge.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_02: So definitely not a Christian challenge, but a really disciplined hard one.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_02: I thought if a million people can go through 75 hard, yeah, let's let's get a Jesus.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: This challenge.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so I came up with this challenge.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason why it's called 40 Forge is because, again, in the Bible, talking about being forged, you know, that hot iron being pounded.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_02: God is molding you with every decision, every day, every time you're turning back to Him.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_02: He's molding you to this very sharp weapon that can be used to build his kingdom.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_02: And again, spiritual warfare.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so are you being forged or are you staying, you know, flabby, let's say, uh, in your spiritual spiritual walk and uh physically?
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_02: But so I wanted like a nice hardcore, manly, kind of tough uh challenge name.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_02: So that's 40 forge.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um the reason why it is so it's basically Jesus version of 75 Hard.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_02: The reason why it's 40 days, because in the Bible, um, those of you, you know, Jesus people have been around for a while, know that, you know, 40 is a biblical number.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_02: And each instance of 40, it's marked by a time of testing, preparation, and trans transition where God prepared his people for a new stage in his plan.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_02: Think of Moses at Mount Sinai, up there for 40 days before receiving the Ten Commandments.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_02: Israel wandering around in the wilderness, uh, you know, 40 years.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_02: The flood, 40 days and 40 nights.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus in the wilderness while I was being tempted by by Satan of 40 days, Goliath's taunt to the Israelites before uh David came and knocked him out 40 days.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus was on earth 40 days post-resurrection.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so, again, there's over 140 examples in the Bible where 40 is used.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so I thought, okay, 40 is the number.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_02: And we look at habits, you read books, and sometimes it's 21 days, some studies show 66 days.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_02: I want to go biblical.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the 44th challenge also started off with a hard and a light version, pretty intense.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I I have had um probably seven or eight rounds of this of people going through it for 40 days, and it's a fun challenge.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_02: And some of them are small, some of them are big.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I just yeah, I thought it was pretty intimidating for just the general person, maybe new to their Jesus journey or maybe struggle in some areas.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to make a very dumbed-down ignite version of it.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll just share that version um with the listeners here.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_02: But the 40 Forge Ignite, okay?
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a few basic things.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's basically abstaining from a few chains that are holding a lot of Jesus people down, a lot of people in life down, but it's no alcohol, no drugs, and no porn.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it's abstaining from that for 40 days and hopefully it gets you on a streak to do it forever, right?
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then um exercising at least 15 minutes a day, reading your Bible daily, and then praying daily.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_02: So that is the very intro version of it.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then the hard version gets to very intense of drinking a gallon of water and listening to only worship music and doing a full two-hour morning sacred start and being on a meal fast and bunch of things like like that.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was looking for it in the book because I thought I had doggy eared that I was gonna read what the the hard and the light version were.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I'm I'm getting I'm getting myself geared up to do the hard version.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_01: Let's roll.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_01: Page 283.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, page 283 is where it's at.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_00: I I must have moved my bookmark from there, but but yeah, so um it looks like this on the page, and you've got your your 40forge hard and 40 forge light.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that was oh yeah, it's doggy earned.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so I I was challenged by that totally.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, listen, I wanted to ask you about your work with young adults.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because you've spent years training and mentoring young people professionally, and now you're raising two boys of your own.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I just want to ask you, because I don't really have a whole lot of younger people that I'm mentoring right now.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_00: And what I want to know, what are you seeing in this generation when it comes to the things we've been talking about?
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Identity, purpose, discipline, um, hunger for God, being ignited.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what do you think that younger Christians really need to get to hear from spiritually mature men and women right now?
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I want to know.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so a couple of things.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_02: For me, I've trained um over 3,000 young adults over my career.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um worked with the hundreds of young adults in church.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, I don't have all the answers, but I would say based on my experience, they want authenticity big time.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think they've been, I even think back to my parents, they really did their their best, but I didn't really have any explanation why.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Why can't I watch Simpsons?
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Why can't I hang out with that friend?
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Why can't I have a radio or be listening into to set for music in my car?
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's more of more of a legalistic, and because we're Christians, Jason, here's who we vote for, and here's what what uh what we we do, as opposed to the authentic um like why and the ups and downs and struggles.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think um, you know, you look out, you know, now the crazy world we live in and all things being covered up and then unveiled, and all the all the distrust with people, you know, higher up and all that in the world.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's like they just want, I believe, just a real person that they can talk to about their struggles, that they feel cares about them.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's less about all the hype and the show.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know that's what draws them in.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think they're really high on their emotional experiences and the Holy Spirit feels and the worship and the jumping around, that's all great.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_02: But what they're really lacking is that discipline because they're doing that on Sundays, but they're still going out on Saturdays.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_02: They're going to church, right, you know, raising their hands on Sundays, but then they're but then they're sleeping in and not not sticking their journal and Bible time and prayer time in the morning.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's that they uh so my recommendation for someone who's maybe around them or looking to help them is be real about your your current struggles, your past struggles, um, you know, with reason, of course.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then um, you know, be real about how you're feeling about things, be real about ups and downs in your Jesus journey.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_02: And they're really going to trust that and appreciate that, and then want to learn from you.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like they're so desensitized to all the gurus online and the the higher ups in the in the country or in the world.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just, you know, it's it's like they they um looking for just that local neighbor, right?
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_02: That you know, love your neighbor and you don't have to be famous, you don't have to have all the answers.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think just have to be there to love on them, listen to them, yeah, and pour into them based on your experience.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_00: And let them get close enough to to us to see what a faithful life with Jesus actually looks like.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_00: How we repent, how we recover from failure, how we pray in our marriage, how we keep pursuing him for a long time.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that is so good.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_00: That is so good.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Jason, higher pursuit is very much about putting what we learn into practice.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_00: So um, before we pray, I would like you to speak directly to my listeners, maybe the ones who genuinely love Jesus, but they know they've drifted.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe their hunger isn't what it had been, or maybe they've tried over and over to become consistent and they're tired of failing.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe this conversation is simply awakened something in them that's saying something like, I just don't want to settle for um for a surface level relationship with God anymore.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_00: I want more, I want to be ignited.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_00: What do you just leave them with something?
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would say where a lot of people are motivated in how I coach people is taking them through heaven and hell.
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you look at your life and you keep make, so it's like looking at what what's the hell that you're gonna be in if you keep making those choices and you keep drifting.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's not just right now, it's who are you in a year?
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_02: How's your family in five years?
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_02: Who are your kids in 10 years?
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_02: What's your health look like?
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_02: What's your Jesus journey look like?
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Where are you at?
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_02: How's your marriage in 10, 20, 30 years?
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_02: So if we take you down that fear of what does hell look like in your life, that's pretty motivating.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then if you take them through heaven of like, well, what does it look like when you start waking up early?
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_02: What does it look like when you start getting disciplined in the gym and in your Bible?
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_02: What does it look like when you start um witnessing to your family and to the people at work?
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_02: What does that look like?
• 1:14:45
  SPEAKER_02: And what does that ultimate heaven, you know, um high hope look like?
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that's also motivating.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_02: So then you're driven by both pain and pleasure.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say for your listeners at higher pursuit, you're listening for a reason.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like you want more, and you want, you're in the pursuit of a higher version of yourself.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure you're doing great, and we're all just trying to do our best, but there's obviously cracks.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_02: We all have our cracks and our struggles and our things that are holding us back from being our like God fully, full you I don't Jason.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_00: I lost your audio.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um I wonder, did your microphone how's this?
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_02: How's the audio?
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, my microphone died.
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_02: So we can cut I can start over.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_02: How's that?
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's good.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so um can you ask ask the the uh question again?
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um so Jason, the higher pursuit, here at higher pursuit, we're really about putting what we learn into practice.
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_00: I usually leave people with some sort of a takeaway.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so before we pray, I want you to speak directly to the person who's listening who maybe they genuinely love Jesus, but they know they've drifted, like we talked about earlier, or their pilot light went out, their hunger isn't what it once was, or maybe they're the person that's tried over and over to be consistent and they're just sick and tired of failing.
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe this conversation has simply awakened something in them that is saying, I want more.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to settle for this surface level Christianity.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_00: I want to go deeper.
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Just could you look that person in the eyes right now and tell them what you think they should know?
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what I like to do, Cecily, is I like to take people through what's called heaven and hell, basically, because we are a lot of times we're motivated by pain or pleasure or both.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, we don't actually take action of getting healthy until we have a heart attack, right?
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_02: We don't actually take action on things until it becomes really painful or really pleasurable.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_02: So when I think about that, we're all on our own journey.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_02: And again, like I said earlier, we're not, we're either getting better or worse every day in every area of our life.
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, if I take you through the hell of what does your action, if you're drifting, if you're not where you want to be in some areas, what does that look like in a year and five years and 10 years?
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_02: How does that look with your family, with your health, with your Jesus journey?
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_02: How bad does it get?
• 1:17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Is is is there, you know, are your kids drifting from from from Christ?
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Is is there divorce?
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Are there heart attacks?
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_02: Are you losing a job?
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are you on the streets?
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how bad can it get, right?
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because that can be very motivating of going through, whoa, that could get really bad if I don't make a change.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_02: But then besides the fear, the hell part of it is what does it look like with the hope and the future?
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_02: What does it look like in a year, five years, 10 years from now in your marriage with your kids, in your job, in your health, in your Jesus journey?
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_02: If you start getting that 1% better every day in that area that you feel like you are drifting, especially in your Jesus journey, right?
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_02: What's that internal, that eternal impact on your kids, on your family, on your neighbors at work because you stopped drifting?
• 1:18:24
  SPEAKER_02: You just made a choice to start waking up and getting after it.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that hope, that pleasure, that that ideal scenario should also give you some motivation and know obviously we know which one's better.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_02: And we also know which one the devil is going to distract you and tempt you to go down.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I challenge you know, the listeners here.
• 1:18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you're a high achieving, um, you know, desiring group of people who want to live a higher version, you know, the the pursuit of a higher level of life.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_02: So clearly, I think, you know, to your audience is that you know, they like what if, like, just think about the what if impact of you leveling up and stop drifting in you know, in the kingdom.
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_02: And this life is so short, you know, we have a hundred years and then we're in heaven forever.
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to be impactful and have a footprint in heaven because of the people that they were reached down here and the short time I had, and um go from there.
• 1:19:25
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what I'd say.
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So good, so good.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_00: I love how you're like, we only have a hundred years.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Most people are like, Oh, yeah, I only have 70 or 70 or 80 years, but you're already pushing that bar farther out.
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome, dude.
• 1:19:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 1:19:40
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, before you close us in prayer, tell everyone where they can find your book, Wake Up Jesus people, get the information on the 40forge challenge and how they can follow you.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 1:19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so just my name, Jason Heiner, it's on pretty much all social medias.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then the website is wakeupjesuspeople.com.
• 1:19:57
  SPEAKER_02: But obviously, you can find the book on Amazon and the 40forge challenge is on the uh site as well, but also the specific link to that is 40forge.com.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's so good.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I just want to add one more thing before we pray.
• 1:20:11
  SPEAKER_00: To the person listening, listen, my tribe, you don't have to wait for Monday.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And please don't wait for January 1st.
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to wait until you feel more spiritual.
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_00: You can turn your heart toward Jesus today.
• 1:20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Our sacred space with God isn't about perfection.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you're hearing that.
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's about presence.
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the goal isn't always having to maintain a perfect streak, but it's fun to have those streaks and to see how far we can take something.
• 1:20:41
  SPEAKER_00: The goal is Jesus.
• 1:20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've drifted, returning doesn't begin with condemnation, condemning yourself.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_00: It begins by turning around and pursuing him and finding that grace, that peace, that joy that Jason and I have been talking about.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, Jason, I can't think of a better way to end this conversation than to pray.
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, would you pray over everyone who's listening, please?
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let's do it.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_02: All right, Lord, lift you up.
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for the listener here, whether they're running, they're in their car, or they're with family, or just here listening or watching, that you bless them, Lord, and you give them the courage to be better and to trust you and help them as they're going through and navigating what they heard today, and that they fill those cracks and they close them, Lord, and that you fill them with the Holy Spirit, give them that power to break that addiction or to overcome that fear, Lord, and help them to get better each day and pursue you and help them to surrender, Lord, help them to stop striving.
• 1:21:43
  SPEAKER_02: They know it's not working, they know it's not fulfilling, and help them to finally surrender to the ways of the Bible and the ways of you, Lord.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Help them to love on others, help them to love themselves, and help them to just create these disciplines that are gonna be able to help them not just become better, but help you speak to them more, Lord.
• 1:22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Help them to continue to uh to to pursue higher and pursue, pursue you, Lord.
• 1:22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for everything you're doing through this podcast and Cecily, and um just continue to bless us and our lives.
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_02: And everyone who's listening, Lord, thank you so much.
• 1:22:20
  SPEAKER_02: We have so much to be thankful for, and we're so excited for what is to come.
• 1:22:24
  SPEAKER_02: Your name we pray.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 1:22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hallelujah.
• 1:22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Jason, thank you so much for being here.
• 1:22:32
  SPEAKER_00: This conversation is everything I had hoped it would be.
• 1:22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for pouring so much into the higher pursuit community.
• 1:22:39
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody, we're gonna put the information about Jason, about Jesus, well, no, about Jason and Wake Up Jesus people and the 40 Forge Challenge and other things that we mentioned in this lives in this live stream podcast.
• 1:22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna link my full teaching also from spiritual drift to sacred, sacred rhythm if you want to go deeper into that.
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And if this conversation spoke to you, don't just move on to the next piece of content.
• 1:23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Please do something with it.
• 1:23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Choose one of the practices that Jason talked about today.
• 1:23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, higher pursuit isn't about pursuing a better version of us.
• 1:23:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's about pursuing Jesus and allowing our pursuit of him to transform who we become, which means we are pursuing that higher version of who we are created to be in Christ.
• 1:23:27
  SPEAKER_00: So stay rooted, stay faithful, keep pursuing him.
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll see you next time on the Higher Pursuit podcast.