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"Babysitter To The Stars"- Burt Watson · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Disclaimer.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: A career in boxing and MMA that began more than 40 years ago, Burt Watson has served in a host of positions with some of boxing and MMA's most recognized name.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: During his day of working with the UFC, Connor McGregor himself referred to Burt as the man that helped hold it all together.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: He's a mentor, he's a motivator, he is an international sports Hall of Famer.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Burt Watson joins me today on this episode of Caught on the Mike.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And make sure you listen to this all the way through because at the very end we get a treat where we get a pep talk from Bert himself.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mike.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, I am joined today by the babysitter to the stars, the International Sports Hall of Fame inductee, Bert Watson.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: How you doing, my friend?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah!
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Ha ha ha! Yes!
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_04: All night long, baby.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_04: I'm doing good, Mike.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_04: You know the deal.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, sir.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_04: Life is good.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I'm healthy, I'm living, I'm still working, I'm still active, I'm old as hell.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_04: You know, but uh uh I'm I'm I'm blessed.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_04: I'm very blessed, my man.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm blessed every time somebody like you calls me and asks me to share me with someone else.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_04: Always enjoy that, baby.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Always love it, love it.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: You have a career that is storied like none other.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: It began more than 40 years ago in both boxing and MMA.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Damn, you that's a lot of people you gotta be babysitting.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 2:18
  unknown: Yes, sir.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_04: The only time I I get a little hesitant with with these interviews because then they remind me of how long I've been doing this and and and and how many years, you know, and oh, aye aye.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's funny.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: I made a video on social media today where I was talking about the construct of time and how it's the world's most valuable commodity because once you give it up, you don't get that time back.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really one of those things that you gotta really think about because it goes by faster than any of us realize.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and if I if I can piggyback off that, yes, sir, something that I always say is that history has a way of making you a part of it without you asking.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_04: So be careful of the history you leave behind.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_04: Because it doesn't ask you, it just makes you a part of it, and history lives forever.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, believe me.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes, I don't mind you calling me a horse's ass, but don't call me a jackass.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_04: Oh man.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_04: That's my line, man.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I just I just gave you a little more to put on it.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_04: You know, yes, sir, yes, sir.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_04: You gotta know, you gotta be careful, you gotta think about it.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_04: That's that's most importantly, you know, and you know what?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_04: If you train yourself and you live right and you act right and you eat right and you think right, then you don't have to train yourself.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_04: Because, like a fighter, when you get into that case, that octagon or that ring, you ain't got time to think that shit through.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_04: Right, you gotta react instinctively, okay?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_04: Instinctive is not thinking.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you think about it afterwards because you reacted the wrong way, and then you then you sit down with yourself and you're like, man, I trained four months for this, and I get here and I make this mistake, and I hear that a lot.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_04: And it it it's it it always kind of puts me to a mind where I can say to somebody legitimately, you know, what you think about, you bring about.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_04: There's a difference between practicing and training.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_04: You know, when you practice, you're preparing for something.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_04: When you train, you're involving yourself and you're you're thinking about it, and you you're you're kind of putting things to use and creating a plan and creating a system.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_04: If everybody did their lives the way fighters trained, you know, you create a plan, you create a game plan, but you train to strengthen yourself to that kind of creativity, and then you sit back like this, like you sitting right now.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_04: And you look at you look at films and you look at people, and you know what?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_04: You've done your homework that you should do every day in life.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_04: Not when you just have a fight.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: So let's kind of go through your life a little bit, how you got into the fight game, and kind of what brought you from then till now.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna just hand it off to you, and I'll kind of let you tell the story yourself, my friend.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_04: My first event that I can consciously put my head into, or I did put my head into, was March 8th, 1971.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_04: And that was smoking Joe Fraser against Muhammad Ali.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_04: And at that point, I kind of, because I went to college in Nebraska, and I went to college for business administration, knowing I was never gonna be an accountant or a lawyer, but I went for business, you know, got out of college, went in the Marine Corps, served my country.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_04: I did three and a half years, did the Mediterranean, did Vietnam, you know, did all that, and got out and and I went, moved to New York, figuring I'm gonna explore some kind of career, something that I can get a little smarter.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I actually my first foray into New York was with the fashion industry.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, wow.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I can still hand tie a bow tie, baby.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, you know, and and and and coordinate it so it looks right.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_04: Uh but you know, eventually ended up one day meeting Joe Fraser, talking to Joe Fraser, staying connected to Joe Fraser.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_04: And this was at the time, just after that big fight.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know, so he was pretty famous, and it was amazing to me that I was in that world.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_04: But then again, as I said to you earlier, history has a way of making you a part of it without you asking for it.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_04: And that's where I ended up.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, just being a friend and hanging around.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_04: When I met, I met Joe, and you know, we kept in touch and communicated, and Joe had a limousine service in Philadelphia that he called Smoking Joe Fraser's Limo.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_04: So my niece got married.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_04: My niece got married, and a friend of my mother, who is my inspiration, who is the person that I am now, that's where I got it from, babe.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_04: My mom.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_04: Her friend gave her, gave my niece a gift of renting the limousine service.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_04: So we're sitting in the house waiting for the wedding, and everybody's going crazy, and I'm sitting there and just looking back and forth.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_04: And my nephew, who at the time might have been eight, nine, comes in the house and says, Uncle Bert, the car is outside to pick up peanut.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_04: That was my niece's name.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_04: Nina, cars outside to pick up peanut, and he's parked out in the street.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_04: Now, we us living in that street, we're not used to cars stopping and parking on the street.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_04: Because somebody in one of them houses would come out and get you.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_04: They wasn't having it.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: So I told him, I said to him, I said, Leland, go out and tell that the driver to find a place to park.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_04: And before it's time to go, I'll come out and get him.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_04: Well, he went out and he talked to the driver and he came back to me and he said, Uncle Bert, you know, that driver looks like somebody I know, looks like somebody.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_04: And so I, you know, I kind of shuffled it off a little bit.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm thinking, who could that driver be that my nephew, who was about eight or nine, would recognize?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_04: So while they were still trying to decide when the bride was going to go out and not, I went outside, limos parked, you know, and back then you were allowed to have tinted windows, which you're not allowed today.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_04: So I knocked on the window and I knocked again, and he rolled, rolled the window down.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_04: You know, then we had to roll the window down.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_04: Wasn't no so he rolled the window down, and I looked at him, and I I was stunned.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_04: It was Joe Fraser.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_04: That's like in my head, I'm like, holy S H I T.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_04: I said, I said him, I said, my nephew said you look like somebody, but I had already said that.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_04: I shouldn't have said it like that, but I had already said that.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and it's and and and here you go, you know.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_04: And what what happened is Joe was kind of a tinkerer.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he always he didn't have a gardener, Joe didn't have a housekeeper.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_04: Joe, Joe liked doing things on his own.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_04: Whatever he could do, we get in the car, and of course, I would I had to do the driving.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_04: Joe would sit in that car the entire drive and mess around in that glove compartment with all the junk he had in it, taking it out and putting it back in, taking it out and putting it back in.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I could never ever understand that.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_04: But that's the that's the person that he was.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_04: So he had this limousine service.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_04: The day of my niece's wedding, Joe came into the gym, picked up the clipboard, which back then we were using clipboards.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_04: There was no computer.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_04: He picked up the clipboard and he saw my niece's name on the schedule, but no driver signing in beside it.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_04: He called the driver, and I think the driver was home drunk or something.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_04: And and so Joe got in the car and drove it himself.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's amazing.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_04: True story.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't read that shit in the book, you know, but there he was.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_04: And from that point on, he and I we kept talking and because I had already met him once, but wasn't really that kind of close until that wedding, and it really got close.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_04: And we would kind of hang out a little bit.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_04: And he even said to me once that I was probably the only person that he could legitimately hang out with, be comfortable, get drunk, and not worry about it, because I wasn't gonna get drunk with it.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_04: And he told me this later on as we got to know.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_04: But in that same vein of that drunk story, we were hanging out.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_04: We were going out, Joe would call, he would come over, we would go out, and and I would go out and I would hang with it.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_04: But I was hanging with Smoke and Joe Fraser, so I was you couldn't tell me nothing.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm out showing off right now.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_04: I think anybody that knows me knows I drink Grand Manier.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_04: I drink grand manier and I chase it sometimes with a hiney.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_04: But I've never been a real drinker.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no one's ever seen me intoxicated.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_04: No one that I didn't wake up in the next morning and look at, okay?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_04: So and and and and I'm married.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_04: So Joe and I, he would come, knock, knock go out, and I knew who he was, but didn't know the extent of it until I started going out with him.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_04: And we never got a minute of peace.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_04: But every time somebody would come, he would pull me in front of him.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_04: I, you know, I would always kind of stop the crowd or let the crowd in or stop the crowd.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_04: He didn't mind the crowd, but he didn't want an avalanche.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_04: So I kept doing it and I kept stopping.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_04: And then I started drinking a little more, which was not a good thing.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_04: And I started drinking.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_04: One night I had a little too much to drink.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_04: And we finished up about three and went home, and Joe knocked on my window the next morning, seven o'clock, ready to roll.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_04: And at the time, I lived in a complex that I was on the first floor, and he could come and park and knock on my window.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_04: It was funny because one day he was down there knocking on my window and somebody came by and saw Joe Fraser outside knocking on the window.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_04: And when I got up to look, I saw him, but I saw three people with cameras.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_04: I'm sure.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_04: I'm sure.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: And back then, then what there was no TMZ and all that other stuff.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_04: So that picture was just the momentum for them, you know?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: You got three people that that's their story.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: I saw Joe Fraser night.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_04: Joe Fraser knocking on a window, and they would take, they they took, they took the picture.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I looked out the window and I was like, oh my goodness.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, Joe Fraser.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_04: And then I'm thinking, and here's my neighbors seeing him knocking on my window.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_04: What the hell are they gonna think?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_04: But then I saw them with the cameras, and I'm like, uh-huh.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_04: Don't worry about what they're gonna think.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_04: So I got up and we went on, we got on the road.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_04: He had a couple of appearances, but he wanted to start early.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_04: So I did that.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I and I and at the time I wasn't working, I was just his friend, his buddy.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_04: But that time, me getting intoxicated and him waking me up at seven after me going to bed at three, when that day was over, I made up my mind.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_04: I said to him, Joe, you're gonna have to do one or two things.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_04: You're gonna either have to hire me or leave me the hell alone.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_04: Because I can't hang like this, bro.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_04: I I can't I can't do this.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, I had gone to the gym to tell him that.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_04: Because his gym was on Broad Street in Philadelphia.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_04: So for me to get from my place to his gym was maybe 15, 20 minutes.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_04: I went to the gym and he had a little back room in the back of the gym.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_04: He had an office with a huge picture.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_04: The wall, the entire wall, was that left hook and Muhammad Ali going down.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_04: That was the picture behind his desk.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_04: And when I told him that, he walked out of the office, out of the little cubbyhole.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_04: He had, once you walked past the office, he walked into his little cubby hole.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_04: He said, Come here.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_04: He walked me out, he walked to the chair behind the desk, and he said, Sit down.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_04: He sat me behind that desk and that was it.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_04: That was his answer.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_04: I told him, Leave me the hell alone or hire me.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_04: He said, Come here, sit down.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_04: Sat me down at his desk, and that was my job.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm sitting there, I'm like, damn.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it then it hit me all over again that that that's where I was.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_04: And it hit me, but didn't really hit me.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_04: So he directed all phone calls to me.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_04: He directed everybody to me.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_04: We negotiated the money, then I should have negotiated for more, but I didn't, because I was more happy to be with him than anything.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I started getting the call.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_04: And he started answering.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_04: I started getting the call.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_04: He'd answer and he'd pass it.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_04: So what they were people calling, wanting to know how much would it cost for Joe?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_04: And by that time, I had also known a couple of other people that were in the sport and were around, you know, that dealt with Meldrick Taylors.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_04: I knew some people that dealt with Holyfield and, you know, just that camp from the Doofas and other people.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I was calling and asking questions, you know, what are you getting for such and such for a personal appearance?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_04: At the time, they said, huh, maybe$500 or$1,000, which was a lot of money.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_04: But I figured, well, hell, if they get$500, Joe Fraser's gonna get$5,000.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_04: You know?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_04: I started, I had to come down a little, but some people I said it and they said, okay.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_04: And that was for uh the first time I took it and didn't anticipate the time.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_04: But then when we got there and we started doing this stuff, we were there like three or four hours.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_04: And after that, I said, this is it.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_04: From now on, I'm gonna put a time, I'm gonna put a time on that.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_04: They got one hour, you know.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_04: And and and if that one hour goes pretty smooth, Joe's gonna hang around and give you a little more time.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I knew he would do that anyway, because Joe would never leave a room with somebody in there wanting an autograph.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_04: Ever.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_04: And if we get to a place and they'd have his picture up and the appearance that he was gonna be there, I I'd look down the street or sometimes in a mall, look down, and I see the line of people, and then I knew, oh man, we're gonna be here a minute because he would never, ever leave.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_04: So I started taking calls and taking appointments and booking appearances, booking television shows.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_04: We we didn't get never got paid for the television show.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_04: But I was okay with that because that was our marketing tool.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_04: You know, to be on Mike Douglas, you know, or or or or ABC News or CBS News, but but that's the kind of person I had.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, we did that.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_04: And if we were on ABC on Monday and you wanted us on Wednesday, that cost you another grand.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_04: I got smarter.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_04: I got a little smarter with it, but it was it was it was fun.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_04: And not until I got to the second one that I saw how popular he was.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_04: Because any place we ever went, there was never less than three 300 people.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: And that's a lot of people for an autograph session or to take a peek at somebody.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it was it was crazy.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_04: And there were times we would do something at a mall, and the mall was full.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_04: And it just seemed like they knew he was there.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_04: And and and and they didn't, oh, Joe Fraser.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_04: And then somebody would get on the phone, and this person was, ugh, it got it got to be a little crazy, but it was definitely awesome.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_04: And uh we did those appearances, and I paid and got paid and gave him his money, and then he gave me back my money.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_04: But but not until after about let's say about three years that I started taking my money out before I gave him his money.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_04: Oh man.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_04: Because that made me feel better.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_04: You know, because Joe was more of a person than you would think he was.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_04: Like I said, he would never go out of a place and not sign autographs.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_04: He would always go, you know.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_04: We had access to certain areas because he was who he was.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, we could go to the Playboy Club downtown and not have to stand in line at the rope because he was Joe Fraser.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_04: Joe wanted to go to the little bar on 6th and Master Street, okay?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_04: Or 60th of Master Street, or around the corner on Edgewood.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_04: He would rather sit in a little dive than go to the Playboy Club and walk through a rope, walk behind a rope.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_04: That's the way he was.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_04: And loved it.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_04: Sitting there one time, we're in it, we're in this little dive, and this guy's across the bar.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_04: He's so drunk, he leaned across the bar.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_04: His buddy was drunk, the guy next to him was drunk, the lady next to him was drunk because her wig was twisted.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm looking, I'm looking, and the guy's looking over there.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_04: I see him, whispering to the guy, and the guy said, You you out of your mind.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_04: Ain't no way in here unless Joe Fraser.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_04: It was a little bit dark in there.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: But I heard him say that.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_04: And he got up and walked around the bar.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_04: And that the, you know, Mike, the the the fun part of that was, you know, I I I boxed.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I've never done any martial arts, but I've rolled with people just to say that I did that.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_04: You know, Matt Hughes taught me a rear-naked choke.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_04: Anderson Silver taught me a leg kick.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_04: You know, Chuck Liddell learned taught me how to intimidate, you know.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_04: So I was always, I had those things, but never did it myself professionally.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_04: But the point I was trying to make was that people saw me with Joe, they didn't know if I could throw hands or not.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_04: But they weren't trying to find out.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_04: They know I was small and smaller than Joe, but they was not gonna test that out.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_04: So when those guys came around the bar, when I saw them coming over, I got in front of Joe and they jumped and backed up.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I just said, you know, can I help you with something?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_04: And he said, he said, that's Joe Frazier, man.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: I said, yeah, that is.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_04: And he said, You chitting me.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_04: And he went to push me out of the way.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I stepped the, I said, yo, you getting ready to put your hands on me?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_04: He said, no, no, not at all.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_04: Not at all.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_04: But is that can I talk to him?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_04: And you know what?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_04: Joe standing there laughing.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_04: He was standing there laughing.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_04: Because here I here I am, you know, because initially I prepped for Joe.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_04: I had my little suit on with my little bow tie.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, I looked like a nerd, but nobody was checking them or testing it because I was with Joe Fraser.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_04: You know, so I took the guy over and he went back around the bar.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_04: The next thing I know, the whole bar is buying us drinks.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, uh no.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I told the bartender, I said, we'll take one more, and then I'm turning his glass over.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_04: When you see me turn his glass over, then you know we we're rolling out of here.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_04: And I would turn the glass over because I made a mistake one time trying to cut Joe off and put my hand on top of his drink that he had to put back in his mouth.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_04: And he made me know that.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_04: And he had a habit of nudging me in my ribs with his hands, thinking that he was playing and he was hurting me.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_04: I said, How the hell you put your hand on something I gotta put it in my mouth.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_04: So, not to ever do that again, I turned the glass over.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I and I told a bartender, when you see me do that, we out of here.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_04: And I did that and I had to ease my way out.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I did, you know, kind of just kind of eased out a little bit.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_04: And it was always like that.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_04: But then what I did was, you know, you had you had a it was a catch 22 because you couldn't go in a place and sit in the front of the room because everybody walked past you and everybody saw it.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_04: But then when you walked in and sat in the back, you had to get out of there.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_04: And believe me, trying to get Joe.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: Frazier out of a place without being a horse's ass was tough.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm sure.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_04: You know, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, it was, yeah, it was it was tough.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, it it got tougher, but I learned how to do it.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_04: People stopped testing me because then, you know, the more I was with him, the more they knew that he had somebody with him.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: And it was that little guy or that little man.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_04: And they never, they never never tested.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_04: And I worked with Joe on through, you know, that era of his life.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_04: And midway through uh, I think it was 1989, this guy came to me with this idea of putting Joe Fraser, George Foreman, Muhammad Ali, Ken Norton, and Larry Holmes together.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, together for what?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_04: What are you gonna do?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_04: And and he put the whole thing out.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_04: He laid it out to me what his idea was.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_04: And then at that point, I looked, I just said, you know, that doesn't sound like a bad idea.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_04: You know, but they were famous enough, and what the meat and potatoes of it was that they were gonna do a tour together, all five of them, and all five of them fought each other.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_04: So the cut caveat was they were gonna talk about what their fight was like with each other.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_04: And the guy said, We'll call the tours champions forever.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_04: And and it happened.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so now I'm I'm traveling with all five of them.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_04: And it was Mike, it was amazing.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I'm sure.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_04: To have been, once again, history made me a part of it and didn't ask me.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_04: But, you know, I knew Muhammad because being with Joe and because of that, but to put them together was kind of interesting to me.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_04: But then in my head, I'm saying to this, I said to this guy, I said, You know, I because I knew what Joe was gonna ask.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_04: Because I asked him how long was this, and he went on to say, Man, we can make a ton of money.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_04: Oop, shouldn't have said that.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and we can travel around the world.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_04: Oops, shouldn't have said that.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_04: Because all of this told me that this was not gonna be a one-time thing.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_04: Then then the red flag started going up, you know, with the television and the media and all this.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_04: So I gave him a fee.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_04: First, I asked him what he was paying Muhammad, and he wouldn't tell me.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_04: Now, the thing was that Muhammad was the first person that he went to.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_04: And then he came to Joe.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_04: And he wouldn't tell me what he paid Muhammad.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, Well, then you're not gonna get Joe.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_04: I said, Because I'll let you be the person to go in the room and tell Joe he's making less money than Muhammad.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_04: I'll let you be the person.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_04: So he told me, so I told him what we wanted up to a certain point, and then afterwards, once we go on tour, it was so much per month or per appearance.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_04: And and I'm gonna tell you, man, that was it was definitely an experience to be with those guys, to travel with those guys, you know, and to see how they interacted and to see people.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_04: I can tell you, and I've worked in my career with everybody.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, sir.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody, and I say everybody, the only person I can legitimately tell you that I have never worked with was Lennox Lewis.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_04: Oh wow.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_04: That's the only person.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_04: I had Riddick Bo when he used to wear a Batman mask.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_04: When I when I say had him as a coordinator, because I started coordinating for Joe, and Joe had seven relatives boxing.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and out of the seven, three of them were his sons, and the rest were nephews and cousins.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_04: And one of them was Yang Durham's son.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yank Durham was Joe's primary trainer.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, I had been around these guys for so long, and and it was just amazing.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_04: And over my career, having worked with everybody, as I said, it just got to a point where, man, I was having more fun than I was working.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_04: Because it was no longer a job, you know, when I could sit and talk face to face, you know, with Roy Jones when he was coming to me as a rookie, Oscar de La Hoya, you know, not coming to me, but I did a good enough job with Joe and his promotion that the networks got a hold of it.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_04: So they were asking me at times to coordinate certain events.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_04: And then, you know, in our little world, they throw your name around.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_04: They pass it around.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_04: So they passed it around, and I was getting calls, man, from you know, from everybody, man, and and and mostly promotions.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I would say, well, who you got?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_04: Which and some guys say, Oh, I got uh Julio, what is what I can't pronounce his name.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: Julio Cesar Chavez.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_04: So okay, I'll do that.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I did.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_04: And I got that fight.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_04: I got the Roy Jones.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_04: I worked with Sugar Ray Lennon, Roberto Duran, Hitman Hearns, Marvin Hagler, uh Macho Camacho, Salazar.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_04: You name them.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_04: Somehow I did.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I did Mike Tyson's last five.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, wow.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_04: I think I did his last, his last five fight.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_04: Three of them were not too good out of his last five, but you know what?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_04: He was still Mike Tyson and I was working his fights.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_04: First fight I did with Mike Tyson was here in Philadelphia against Buster Mathis, you know, with him and Don King.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I got the phone call from Carl King, Don's son, who I knew through doing other events.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, they they they kept people in a certain circle.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, sir.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_04: And they called me.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_04: And and and I did that.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I went on and, you know, Kostya Zoo and Zab Judah and, you know, Oscar De La Jolla.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, I did Sugar Ray Leonard's last fight against Hector Camacho.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I did that, and my job became coordinator.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_04: I learned how to work with fighters, for fighters, and around fighters.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, sir.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_04: And at the time, Mike, I was also learning how they were as people and how they needed to be treated as people.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_04: Because a lot of promoters, and don't ask me no names, because I would damn sure say them, but uh, don't don't get me in trouble.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_04: But but there were promoters that were not treating fighters a certain way.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_04: But when they brought me on, they gave me the fighters.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_04: And I said to them, You pay me, respect me, and stay out of my way.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_04: You got those three things, plain and simple.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_04: And if I disrespect you or don't do a job, then you can keep my money.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and and and was always out front with making sure the event behind the scene was 100%.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_04: That's where I live, in the belly of the beast.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_04: Whatever.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_04: So I made sure everything in there was right.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_04: I made sure the heat was right.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_04: I made sure there was water back there, there was towels back there, it wasn't dirty, it wasn't unkept, it wasn't smelly.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_04: Believe me, I would go check bathrooms to make sure it had running water in it.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_04: Because I have been at a fight in a dress room where fighters had not even running water or a bathroom.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_04: They had to go two flights up to a bathroom.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I did that once.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_04: Only everything I ever did like that, I did once because I learned.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I became, I mean, you know, my fighters are my kids.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_04: All of them, you know, even the Klitschko brothers, you know.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I did both of them.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I did I did the first fight that they were on together, which was in Florida, and I forgot whether it was Miami or Orlando, but the headline of that fight was Donovan Razor Rudding.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, wow.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if you remember that day.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_04: But but he was the headline, and the Klitsko's were making their U.S.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_04: debut.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm looking at them.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_04: I had never seen fighters that tall.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_04: You know, because they, I mean, they're like 6'4, 6'3, 6'4, easy, 6'5, maybe.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_04: But I've never seen them that tall.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and and but, you know, I handled it.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_04: I did what I had to do, and I got called again.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_04: And then I got called to do some of their fights from their promoters.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I started, like, I got started getting calls from Frank Warren, who did most of the stuff out of the country.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_04: He would call me and I was gone around the world twice.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_04: And I did, I did that, I did, yes, I'm proud of that, man.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_04: I tell you, I'm I'm I'm a I'm I'm an advocate for history making you a part of it without you asking.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_04: That's my life story.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_04: And and I worked with the inboxing.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_04: I was in Vegas doing the Costus, Zab Judah, or it was De La Hoya.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not 100%.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_04: But I know I was doing the fight, and the promoter came to me and said, hey, somebody's coming in here to see me today.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_04: And and and and they're looking at they're thinking about starting this organization or something, and he looked, he's looking for a coordinator and advice.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_04: He said, I'm gonna give them the advice, and you can give them the coordination.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_04: So I had a fight, and I said, I can't do that now, man.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_04: You know, if I give you a half-ass job, you're not gonna pay me.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_04: So afterwards or tomorrow morning, fine.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_04: But right now, because I'm gonna tell you something, bruh.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_04: One thing you can never do is take your eyes off of fighters in a dressing room fight night.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_04: Never.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_04: They will end up every place but where they're supposed to be.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_04: And it would only be your fault because you let it happen.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I was not letting that happen.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I didn't.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_04: So we the next day, you know, I was leaving late that afternoon.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_04: So we met this guy at nine o'clock the next morning in his office.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_04: And uh, I'm only gonna say this name once.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_04: The guy said, Hey, I'm starting this organization and yada, yada, yada, yada, yadda.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I said to him, thing I always say pay me, respect me, and get out of my way, you got me.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_04: And if I disrespect you or don't do my job, you don't pay me.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_04: Pay me, respect me, and get out of my way.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_04: He said, Okay.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_04: The guy was Dana White.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_04: I knew that was the line.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_04: That was what I was waiting for.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_04: That was the very first time I had met him.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_04: Never had no idea.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_04: Had no real idea.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm a boxing guy.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_04: So my exposure to mixed martial art was.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_04: How do I say?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_04: What do I say this?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_04: I can't think of the word, you know, burning farting.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_04: But I needed to, I needed to lay up on a couch after I saw my first mixed martial arts.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_04: I'm sure.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_04: I couldn't believe them guys were hitting like that and couldn't fight.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_04: What I call couldn't fight because it wasn't technical jabs and sliding and slipping and dugging, you know.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_04: And then they learned and they started calling it instead of boxing, it was called stand-up.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_04: How was the stand-up house the ground game?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_04: I learned that in my transition.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_04: But when I saw them trying to box, I was like, shit, I'm not gonna, I know I'm not gonna like this.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_04: They can't fight.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_04: And then I saw how they won fights.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_04: Ah and that was in 2000 maybe 99.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_04: I did my first martial arts fight or MMA was UFC 30.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_04: Oh wow.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_04: And uh that was my intro and my transition.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_04: But every time boxing was a little fickled.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I one time had taken a fight and was at the airport waiting to get on my plane, and I saw a corner man who I knew and thought he was on my flight, you know.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_04: And he said, No, man, I'm going home.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_04: I said, Well, so you coming in later?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_04: He said, No, man, that fight was canceled.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_04: I'm sitting like, what the hell?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm at the airport to find out that the fight's canceled.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_04: But then that was not the first time, and it was the beginning.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, they they would cancel boxing events in a minute.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_04: And I want you to think about this.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_04: What they did was then they got a little smart.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_04: And if you think about it, you only got big fights once a year.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_04: Except for Tyson.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody else, and I'm talking about as far back as 1990.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_04: Those guys, those big names, De LaJoy and Roy Jones, they weren't fighting twice a year.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_04: That wasn't happening.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_04: But you know what?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_04: You didn't realize that because they would fight in June and then would come back probably in February.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_04: Which for you wasn't a long time to wait to see them fight.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_04: But everybody fought one time.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_04: And then sometimes, you know what?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_04: It got canceled.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I didn't get paid.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_04: When I started in mixed martial arts, I've been in this sport now since 2000, I'll say.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_04: Legitimately.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_04: 2000.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_04: Damn, that's long.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_04: It's 2023.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_04: And in my career in this sport, I've only had one fight canceled.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, wow.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_04: One.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_04: And anybody who's a fan out there, they probably know what it was, could probably call in and tell you what it was.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_04: So it got to a thing where I was doing MMA and doing boxing.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_04: And the guys in boxing were saying, look, man, what you doing with that mess?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_04: You know, come on, man.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_04: You crazy.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, yeah, right.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_04: I'm crazy.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_04: You go pay me, you go pay me next month, right?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_04: Uh when you get when you got your next fight.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_04: Ah.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_04: So that was my answer.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_04: It went on like that and went on like that, went on like that.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_04: And finally I just said, you know what?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just gonna take what I get.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_04: And the dates started piling up, and then I started getting called from boxing.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_04: But when they were called, I already had I had my dates booked.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_04: So I would never cancel on you.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_04: Wasn't gonna happen.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_04: Wouldn't happen.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_04: So I took it, you know, went on and uh, you know, got involved in MMA at the highest level and had never had any experience in the sport.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_04: But I learned quickly because I had a lot of time on the plane to read stuff, you know, about the Gracies.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, you know, and about Hoyce fighting four times or submitting three opponents in one night.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_04: And what's crazy, I worked with R.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_04: Jemison when he was a damn near rookie.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_04: One glove art when he fought Hoyce Gracie.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_04: I had already knew who he was.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_04: But in my head, I'm like, uh.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I think the only other time, the next time I saw a boxer go from that was James Tony fighting Randy Couture.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, oh no, James, don't do this.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_04: But but you know what?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_04: I couldn't tell him.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_04: What I I couldn't.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_04: I'll tell you one thing.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_04: If they had called me before that fight happened, I would have told them.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_04: I would have given it to him straight.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_04: Straight.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_04: I was gonna I I was gonna say, you know what?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_04: You do me a favor and you take you take Tony in the gym, lay him down on the mat, and let two guys lay on top of him and let him get up.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_04: If he can't do that, he don't need to F with Randy.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_04: That's what it's like for a boxer.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_04: You don't know how to get up off the ground and push somebody off of you.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_04: You know, all you can do is say, get up off me.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_04: Get up off me, let me up, let me up, Pope.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_04: That shit don't work, bro.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_04: No, don't let me up.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_04: You gotta get up.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: That actually leads me to a pretty interesting question.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Since you spent 20 plus years in the boxing world and now 20 plus years in the MMA world.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, how much has MMA evolved from 2000 and now?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Does that ever blow your mind because of how structured it's become over time?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it seems like it gets better and better and better every single year.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_04: Mike, I I cannot tell you how again, history made me a part of it.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I didn't ask for it.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_04: I saw guys when they were catfighting, right, evolved from cat fighting to legitimately throwing a jab, bobbing and weaving, and and throwing a punch with weight behind it, you know, and flicking a jab out there.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_04: I wasn't surprised that MMA got as big as it did because it was consistent.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_04: And the people I saw around it were consistent and dedicated to making it happen.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_04: So I saw it had legs.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_04: And without mentioning names, I worked with the largest promoters in boxing, all of them.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_04: And to see how they worked and then to transition to MMA, the commitment to the sport itself was different.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_04: The commitment to the technical aspects of MMA was different than the commitment to boxing because it became a business, an entertainment as opposed to a professional sport, if that makes sense.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, oh, absolutely it does.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_04: You know, because I mean I've done fights where the main event guy made$15 million and there was a guy making$50 a round on the undercard.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_04: You know, because that's what they made as far as far back as 1999, they were getting$50 a round.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_04: But I saw that MMA had legs, and I saw the commitment to the sport more so than to television and entertainment.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I, you know, as a coordinator, I could see that in a promoter.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_04: And when I saw how committed promoters in MMA were to the sport, then I could, I knew it had legs.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I knew eventually I saw boxing, you know, right now you got Crawford, Stevenson, Triple G, you got Canelo, you got guys right now that are big names.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_04: I haven't seen that many names at one time in 10 years.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I hope I hope they hear me loud and clear.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like the boxing world is starting to borrow from MMA for that extent.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I hope I can say what I want to say, not too many kids.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely, man.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_04: You know, but let me tell you something.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_04: When you get your ass kicked, you learn quickly.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_04: When you get your ass kicked in an alley and somebody take your money out of your pocket, you learn real quick.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: And Boxing was getting his ass kicked.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_04: Legitimately.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_04: Every time he came out of the house, somebody was waiting outside to kick him in the ass.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_04: The bully was waiting down the street.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_04: Come in.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_04: And you know what?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_04: He came to him.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: So much to the extent that they started booking their events the same weekends as the big pay-per-view events for UFC and other MMA promotions.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_04: Well, well, you know what they learned.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_04: They learned as they were going along, they learned as it was happening.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_04: And while that bully was taking the money out of their pockets and bitch slapping them, they went to a gym and trained.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_04: And learned how to fight.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_04: So that's what they're getting now.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_04: And I was, I was myself, I was saddened to see boxing take the dip that it did, you know, because I was I was so involved.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I'm sure.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_04: And and at a high level with when those names that I mentioned, when they stopped, then it it was like, you know, after Tyson's last fight, De La Hoya's last fight, you know, and and and just to to to to validate a little bit, not a lot.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_04: But HBO got out of it at one point.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_04: HBO, the the hub, the platform, the Statue of Liberty, you know, all of those things for professional boxing.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_04: It just said, uh, you know what?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_04: We're done.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_04: And showtime started, you know.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_04: But that was that was enough to say, you know what?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_04: And and and and not only was when HBO was done with it, then television was done with it.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_04: USA.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_04: They used to do USA Tuesday night fights with Marv Albert and whatever his name, with uh uh uh oh, who was the the the Irish guy?
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_04: Was it Sean O'Grady?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_04: I think so.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, they got out of it.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_04: ESPN, the little they had in it, they got out of it.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_04: Turner Broadcaster got out of it, everybody got out of it.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_04: And at that time, I was like, damn, what's happening to my boxing?
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know, but I was I was as I saw them get out of there, they started coming around.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I'll tell you, having worked like you so eloquently reminded me, 40 years of this shit.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I was at I was at events, MMA events, and I saw television executives there that I knew were from another network.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_04: And in my head, I'm like, well, I mean damn.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I went over, and you know, I would just wave and they would kind of like they didn't see me.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_04: And then I would go down the aisle and tap them on the shoulder because I could do that.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_04: You know what the hell are you hiding for?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_04: Why are you here?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_04: But I didn't have to ask that question.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_04: They knew, but but it it it it the transition to me was mind-blowing.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and the technical skill level of the fighters in MMA today is unfricking believable.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, and I've seen that evolve, I've seen the evolution, yeah.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_04: And and I I I've seen guys, and and you know what?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_04: I started to see it back in the day with the smaller guys.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because the smaller weight classes were the ones that really started, you know.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_04: And then I'm sitting there one day watching this fight, and I saw this brother run up on the cage and leg kick somebody and knocked them out.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_04: What?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_04: What kind of mess was that?
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_04: But that was an evolution.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_04: But it it just went on from there, and people really started paying attention.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_04: How did he do that?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_04: He trains to do that every day.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_04: No, it wasn't.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_04: And that that I saw the I saw the stand-up develop, literally develop in front of my eyes.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_04: Because I was laughing at them because I thought they were fighting like cats, like little girls.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's something I bring up pretty often on my show, because I have a lot of fighters on my show.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I talk about how even just the past five years, just the past five years, how much it's like how much the perception of MMA has changed by the casual viewer, but how much the athlete has evolved.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of it is due to fighters retiring and then becoming coaches themselves and fine-tuning their craft and honing their craft.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Guys like our mutual friend Cody Donovan, you know, and Vinny and all of those guys, you know, they're they are making the sport better because they're leading this new generation, this pack in that is just refining that craft over and over and over.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_04: And you know what?
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_04: And you you you you hit it on the head.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_04: I I was gonna put it a little differently, but I saw the evolution of the guys, and I saw the evolution of those guys teaching younger guys what they knew or what they were learning.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_04: That's what I saw.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_04: And and you know, sometimes, and me, I can do it.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I look at a guy sometimes and I'm like, and I and I see where they come from.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, uh-huh, yeah, okay.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_04: That's that that's that's an aka some aka stuff or or or ATT or you know, I don't like mentioning names, I like to stay on the fence, but you can see that these guys, but also credit to today's athlete for bringing the agility and bringing the cardio and bringing the technical skills to learn more and learn better.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, and I you know I I've seen maybe two that thought they were better than the sport, okay?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_04: But for the most part, these guys come in eager, ready, but their their their technical ability to perform is off the charts.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_04: So it's easy for them to pick stuff up, right?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and to to train.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_04: Even even you see now the the the corners when they come in, they used to come in with the corner and they had a trainer, they had a cornerman, and they had a cut man.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_04: Now they're all trainers, but one of them learned how to work cuts, one of them learned how to do cardio, one of them learned, but they but everybody in that corner knows has laid on his back before and knows how to get out of that.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I and and I and I didn't read that from a book, son.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_04: You know, because I I I I pay attention.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_04: And I go in the rooms when they're in there working out, and I know who I see working what part of what part, you know, and I do that purposely so I know.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, sir.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_04: So I don't make the mistake of telling the wrong person the wrong thing, you know, because that that's important.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_04: You gotta you gotta know that.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_04: You gotta know who to talk to and when to talk to them and when not to talk to them.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know, you know who likes music and who doesn't like music, yep, and what kind of music they like, you know.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_04: I've learned that very easily.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and it it it's not not a hard thing to do.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_04: And as these guys go now, and now they're they're they're just over the last maybe four years, I still I've seen guys in this fort fight a year.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know, and I'm not naming no names, but you know, but but but for the most part, they they're active, you know.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_04: There are a lot of guys on professional rosters, but at this level, I can tell you, man, it's off the charts.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, sir.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_04: And it is it is it's definitely 100%, and I've been in it now with your eloquence, 23 in this sport, but I can see that it is it is definitely just at a point at a peak where it's getting ready to take off again.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_04: I agree.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_04: Watch it.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_04: I agree, watch it now.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what that is or how, but I can tell you it's gonna hit another level.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: I wholeheartedly agree, and I think something that kind of in all of this discussion and listening to your story, even from back in the Joe Fraser days, there's a bit of consistency between a fighter's mindset and the fighter's journey, right?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: What is it about fighters in particular that makes them check that level of humility to where somebody like a Joe Fraser will hang out in a room and sign every single last autograph until that person leaves?
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: Or where somebody like uh Justin Gachy will, you know, high five and shake hands with every single fan in the room.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's a consistency that fighters have, and it's probably a misinterpretation that people that aren't fans of the sport don't understand.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is those guys leave any perceptions of them in that ring?
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: And what what builds that sense of humility to make fighters such good people outside of the ring?
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_04: Well, first of all, the majority of them have not only lived that life but have watched that life along the way, and have all sat in that on that couch with their dad or their dog or their mom or their girlfriend.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_04: And I can tell you something, Mike, they sit like this and they they just look at the television and they say, one day, one day when I get there.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_04: So when they all get to this level, they've been waiting for this opportunity, and they've been waiting to do this.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_04: But I will also say to you, and I'm gonna get in trouble for this, but I'm okay with that.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_04: When I was in boxing and I transitioned to MMA, the attitude was day and night.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm gonna say this without the sport of MMA and martial arts and jujitsu and all of that teaches you respect.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, and teaches you humility and teaches you to maintain that until you're done.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_04: What you don't want to do is to learn that shit after an ass walk.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_04: You don't want to do that, right?
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_04: That's the last thing a fighter wants to do is to have to humble himself because he lost the fight, because he didn't listen, or he wasn't humble beforehand, or he took it for granted.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_04: And they will all tell you that.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_04: And every time I look in their faces, I looked in BJ Penn's face in his pro debut, and I had that talk with them, and you can see the way they pay attention.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_04: I've had that talk with the Diaz brothers.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, sir.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_04: I've had that talk with Chris Cyborg, Johnny Eblin, you know, who's now the Bellator champion.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, sir.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I've had that, I've had that talk with all of them, and I talk right away to see if it's somebody I need to talk to again.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I've learned how to pick that up.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I also, you know, like you say, a friend.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_04: To me, a friend is somebody I can sit down and talk to, get up and walk away and not be talked about.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, sir.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_04: That counts.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, it does.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_04: And and the sport of mixed martial art teaches you respectability.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_04: You know, regardless of how hard it's going or whatever is going, guys acknowledge each other and bow to each other, you know, and even you see them on the mat when they're done.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes you see guys, I mean, go three for five or five for five.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_04: And when they're done, they're on their knees hugging each other.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_04: In boxing, nah, I whipped your ass now, go get your grandma.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_04: I want her next.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna I'm gonna humiliate you, okay?
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, that worked then, but it worked for Muhammad Ali and it worked for Sugar Ray Leonard.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody's not that person.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_04: Agreed.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_04: But a lot of people would would would try to do that and do that and think, oh, you know, this will work.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_04: But uh, you know what?
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_04: The best thing you can do is to make weight and win your fight.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, plain and simple.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_04: That's all I ask you to do.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_04: You know, first of all, make weight.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_04: I'll tell you that, real, tell you something about that real quick.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_04: In boxing, if we got to fight week and somebody was six pounds over, the fight was damn near off.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_04: And canceled.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_04: And if it was a title fight, and I'm talking about fight week, the whole week.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_04: If somebody showed up on Monday and that fight was 145 and he showed up 150, everybody panicked.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_04: And it got around, and it was, oh man.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_04: No way.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_04: I've seen guys in MMA come in, the heaviest I've seen is 29 pounds.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_04: 29 pounds, and God rest his soul, you know, and that that I was I was amazed.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_04: My first MMA fight, the guy came in and he didn't lose 12 pounds.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_04: And in my head, I'm like, how is this gonna happen?
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_04: How is this gonna happen?
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_04: And I pulled him aside and I got with him.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_04: And you know what?
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_04: He was looking at me like I was crazy, but I didn't know why he was looking at me like I was crazy.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_04: Then I got the next guy, and I did the same thing to him, and I got the next guy, and I had to do the same thing to him.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_04: And when I got to the fifth guy, I said, Shit, what the hell's going on here?
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but that's common.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_04: And everybody said, Oh, Bert, he's a he's a wrestler.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_04: I said, I know that shit.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_04: What the hell does that have to do with it?
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_04: But then they then they said, Calm down, let me explain it to you.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_04: I said, Who the hell are you telling to calm down?
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_04: You out of your mind?
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_04: But I didn't understand him.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_04: I I had no idea, but that was the way it was, but that was the discipline, and I've seen as much as 29 pounds and is the heaviest I've seen.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_04: And that was my man Steph.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I couldn't, I I said, wow.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_04: But you know what?
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_04: He always, Stefan Bonner always gave it that fight between he and Forest will live in infamy.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, it will.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, I I I didn't understand it, so I'm like, what the hell?
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_04: What the?
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_04: And you know what?
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_04: Surprisingly enough, I I sat and I thought to myself, I said, you know what?
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_04: I just got in his face and five others like him.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_04: And not one of them disrespected me and said anything.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_04: They listened to me, knowing that I was crazy.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_04: You know, they were in their head, like, what the hell is he getting crazy about?
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_04: That's only 10 pounds.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_04: You know, but I was I was livid.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_04: How the hell could you disrespect yourself like that?
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a coachable mindset, and that's what's really important.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, oh, yeah.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_04: And it's also it's it's it's very sustainable and it's it's very prevalent.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_04: It's I mean that that's a part of this sport, is a weight cut.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, you know, and and I've I've switched it around a little bit.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_04: You know, now I get worried if I see 10 pounds the night before.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_04: And I've seen that happen.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yep, yep.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_04: I've seen that.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I wow, wow, I I I didn't know what to do, but but guess what?
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_04: He stepped on that scale.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_04: He had lost eight pounds, and he had an hour to lose the other two, and he came back on weight.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yep, yep.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, I'm like, damn.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_04: Well, shut me up.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_04: But that's you know, that's that's that is the beauty and the joy, Mike, this sport.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I I have done nothing but have a good time.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_04: My entire career.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I and I I I look forward to it, still look forward to it, you know, and I I gotta watch.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm looking at time.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_04: I know how I know how much time I might have left, you know, but I'm also I'm a hood rat.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm looking at my watch and saying, shh, I'm a party till I die.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_04: And and you know what?
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_04: That's it.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_04: But but but it's awesome.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, before we started recording, I spent a little bit of time on your Instagram profile, and you've got everything from tributes from Chale, tributes from Rampage, from Layla Ali.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: But there are two videos that I absolutely love and I kept replaying.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it is your advice to fighters before they get in the ring and get in that octagon.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: Give me the spiel, man.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: Give it, give it to the cot on the mic audience.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_04: It's one of those things where I also know, and I'll I'll say to you, that I always feel that there's no more important person than the fighter that night.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_04: And I want you to know that I know that.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I want you to know that I feel that.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_04: And I want you to feel that I feel that.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_04: And if you don't feel this shit, then you need to go home.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_04: Plain and simple.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_04: Now, I first want to tell you that I respect you and I need you to respect me.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_04: Now, I'm gonna say something I have no business getting into, but when you get up at that press conference tonight after your fight, leave them dirty words in the dressing room.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_04: Please do that for me.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_04: Because dirty words are something people never forget.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_04: And the last thing you want, because I know every one of you in this room is on that damn Instagram, the last thing you want is somebody to show this to their kid and their kid repeating what they heard you say.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_04: So be aware of that.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_04: You know, congratulations on making weight.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_04: I'm happy for you and I'm glad to see you.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_04: But I gotta tell you something.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_04: You know what, baby?
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_04: It don't get no bigger than this.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_04: When you get to this level, it is as big as it gets.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_04: But don't get that shit twisted, baby, because everybody up here can fight.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody else.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_04: But you know what?
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_04: Sometime when the lights go on, some people's lights go out.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_04: You have to embrace this moment.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_04: You gotta embrace it.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_04: And winning, winning is not an expectation, baby.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_04: Winning is a fact, it's a fact, baby.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_04: So don't insult your training and don't insult your teaching.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_04: Enjoy the ride, but know the destination because it is easier to get here than it is to stay here, baby.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_04: So don't get intimidated by the moment, don't let the moment get bigger than you because you're bigger than it.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_04: So when you walk to that cage, you fight your ass off.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_04: You fight from here and here and not from here, because he'll give it back to you.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_04: And when you get to that cage, think about it.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_04: Don't go to the gas station and don't go get your gas.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_04: You get gas while you're there at the pump, baby.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm gonna leave you with one thing, and I know it's easier said than done for me, but I want you to think about it.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_04: When you get in that cage, whatever you do, whatever you do, never ever, ever, ever leave that shit to the judges.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_04: If you leave your fight to those judges, I can guarantee you, baby, they're gonna make you cry.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_04: Because it is your night, your fight, get it right, I'm done.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_04: Ha ha!
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, that is not just applicable to a fighter.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: That is applicable to every single one of you.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you save this episode and you play Bert's words back word for word for word for word, every time you gotta get up in the morning, because this is the shit to live by.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad we're connected now, and I hope we can connect again in the future.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, and you give my best to my man, Cody and Juju.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, you know it.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, come on, man.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_04: Those are my people.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_04: And and and you know, on a serious note, I give that speech from my heart.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_04: I can feel it.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_04: Because I know it.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_04: And that's not shit I read in a book, son.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_04: So take it for what it's worth.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I give that to everybody, and then I touch them, and then I stand in the cage, or I stand in the walkout, and I look them in their eyes before they walk, and I tell them, remember, never, ever, ever.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_04: And they know what I'm talking about.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_04: I just I gave it to them early.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_04: They said, ever, ever.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm done.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: Burt Watson, thank you again.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: The world's a much better place with you and it, my friend.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you, baby.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_01: Once again, I want to thank the incredible Burt Watson for doing the show.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: You can find him, Burt Watson, number four, real.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: Burt Watson for real on Instagram.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you give him a follow.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: He has been working for Bellator the past couple of years.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: My goodness.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you get these amazing guests where you just want to sit and listen.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: I felt amazing after this episode was done.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: While you're following people on social media, make sure you follow Caught on the Mic on all social media networks.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_01: And right now, more than ever, I need your five-star review on the Apple Podcast app.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_01: You can also visit me at www.cotonTheMic.com.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of exciting things on the way.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta do a better job of updating my website.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: This has been Caught on the Mike with Michael Clark.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Michael Clark.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_01: Till next time, thank you.