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Riveting Doctor Drama Spiraling to Prison: Myra Mabry · Nightmare Success In and Out

• 0:01
  What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
• 0:04
  Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy. Welcome to the Nightmare Success
• 0:07
  In and Out podcast, where we explore how to overcome your
• 0:10
  fears and nightmares that set yourself free.
• 0:12
  We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in love
• 0:15
  and work with and others who survived their own nightmare.
• 0:20
  These stories can be inspiring, sometimes.
• 0:22
  Sad. There's some humor, but
• 0:25
  hopefully you can come away with a nugget of something that'll
• 0:27
  help you knock down some of the prisms you built up in your own
• 0:30
  mind. All right.
• 0:34
  Welcome back, nightmare, success, and our listeners.
• 0:37
  We're back. We're back.
• 0:39
  Hey, don't forget to follow, subscribe, share, do all that
• 0:41
  good stuff that helps the show. You know, this is where you come
• 0:44
  for. What happens when your worship
• 0:46
  becomes your reality? How do you adapt, survive.
• 0:48
  Overcome, set yourself free? Well, I've got somebody here.
• 0:53
  I've really been excited to talk to because we had a really good
• 0:56
  conversation on the phone. And her story is like, if you
• 1:02
  were going to binge like a Netflix series, you know, And
• 1:06
  you like, it's a Sunday, it's raining out.
• 1:08
  You're like, Oh my gosh, this has a successful doctor, this
• 1:12
  has an affair, this has drugs, this has prison, this has like,
• 1:16
  somebody that's navigating through all this mess and comes
• 1:19
  out on the other side. It's got it all.
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  I mean it has, it has it all. Myra is just a super interesting
• 1:26
  person and and very engaging and I'm, I'm a big fan of hers and
• 1:31
  she has survived this nightmare. And the the thing that she told
• 1:35
  me that I thought was I mean she was serious when she was saying
• 1:39
  this. But she said, you know, she said
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  one day she was on a European trip and she comes back and all
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  in one day, all in one phone call, she has to tell her
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  parents that she's been indicted, that she has.
• 1:53
  She's bisexual and she's an addict.
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  And it's all there. It's it's all in one phone call.
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  And it's like, Oh my God, I can't even imagine what that
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  would have felt like all at once.
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  And she was dealing with it all at once.
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  I can't wait to unpack all this with Myra.
• 2:11
  But before we do that, Myra Mabry, let's recognize the show
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  Auto Plaza Direct. Tell them Brent from Nightmare
• 2:58
  Success sent you. Myra Mabry, welcome in.
• 3:02
  How are you? Thank you Brent.
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  I'm fantastic. And boy, my suitcase looks
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  really big the way you explain it.
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  Well you know it's your, I mean you have one of those like
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  stories that cause a lot of people think, you know when you
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  become a doctor that you know like you know you you go to a
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  doctor's office and you don't even think doctors have any
• 3:28
  problems. You know it's like the doctors
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  are put up on a pedestal and and they just go to work and they
• 3:34
  take care of people and you call them doctor and you you expect
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  that you know there's just this thing that they're like a judge.
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  You know you look at a judge and sits up on a pedestal you know
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  and and doctors do they're real people you know they're they
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  they have a life and and things happen and and you you had you
• 3:56
  had everything going on at all at once at the same time and but
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  let's go back a little bit because let's go to a lot of.
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  Things are going on. What you said that that that you
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  know, the people in general believe the doctors, you know,
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  are just like untouchable and infallible and have this perfect
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  life. And it's interesting because a
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  lot of doctors feel that way too.
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  And there is an arrogance and an ego that goes along with being a
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  physician. And I mean, I was an OBGYN and
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  you know that first time I made an incision for AC section, I'm
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  like, I am literally like cutting into human flesh.
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  There has to be a level of arrogance with that.
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  Yeah, that's big. It is big.
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  It's really big. So there has to be a touch of
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  it. But putting it into, you know,
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  into perspective and you'll probably hear that word a lot
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  for me throughout this whole conversation perspective, if I
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  didn't learn anything else, I learned perspective through this
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  process. So that was really big.
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  And you know that's what introduced me to opioids too was
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  medicine and you know, they kind of thought they were above it as
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  well. So it's it's, it's definitely.
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  Complicated. Well, it's it.
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  Well, it does get complicated and and and all that's
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  available. You know as as a doctor that you
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  you you were able to walk a line or you can fall off.
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  But when the doctor falls off the line, you know it's a
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  serious fall off because they have so much around them that is
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  available to them. Myra, when you were growing up,
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  was this something like, were your parents doctors?
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  Were you? How did you as a kid growing up?
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  What was your life like? What What was mom and dad
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  siblings? What was your world like that?
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  So I grew up on a farm and that's where I learned my work
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  ethic without question, because, you know, the animals have to be
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  fed no matter what. You know the garden has to be
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  protected no matter what because that's your food.
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  I didn't know the grocery stores existed until 4th grade when I
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  broke my arm. I mean that's.
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  Crazy. Isn't that insane?
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  Wow. Everything was from the farm or
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  it was canned or it was frozen. You know, the white packages of
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  meat with the blue tape on it, you know, bacon.
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  And that's how I grew up I. Mean, I guess we.
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  You know what's funny about that?
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  My because my grandparents, they were on a farm and I I one thing
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  I remember talking about things being labeled is that my grandma
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  had this like milk jug and it was I I sometimes I thought it
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  was when I was a little kid. I thought it was milk and why'd
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  she keep it out? It it was full of bacon grease
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  and she just scooped stuff out of there and threw it in the pan
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  and it was it went with everything.
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  It tasted so good. It was right there all the time.
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  Ours. Was a coffee can.
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  It was a Folgers metal coffee can.
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  But there you go. Yep, same thing.
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  You know, I grew up on a farm and that helped me with my work
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  ethic without question because I I didn't know anything else.
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  My father, so interesting parental situation.
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  My mother was adopted. The guy I grew up with as dad is
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  not my biological father. So I don't really have any
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  history, which is important later because I've struggled
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  with cancer, so I didn't, but I didn't know that as a kid.
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  But I always knew something was not right.
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  Like, I didn't know it at the time.
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  But you know, I've gone through a lot of therapy, you know, and
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  looking back at things, I realized I always had that
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  feeling of not belonging, not being enough, just not being
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  right. And my coping skill and my role
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  in, you know, an alcoholic family was to be the the hero
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  child. I did everything perfectly.
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  I was an absolute overachiever. You know, I played three sports.
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  Were you the? Oldest Were you the oldest?
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  Or not. I was the youngest.
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  I wow, the oldest. Yeah, OK.
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  I always protected my sister. You know, my parents went
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  through a five year divorce. We had to testify.
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  It was my mom's family on one side, my dad's family on the
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  other. We were How old were you on
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  that? How old were you at that stage?
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  Started in 6th grade and didn't end until 10th grade.
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  That's a tough time period, too. It's a very formidable time
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  period and a lot of things came out at that time.
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  At that time is when I found out that my the the guy I called dad
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  still considered my dad was not my biological father and it kind
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  of came out as a a weapon during the divorce and it was it was
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  really nasty and I I look at that as a turning point in my
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  life as when things started to go downhill.
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  How did you feel about that, Mark?
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  I mean that that's such a like that's a movie thing, you know,
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  finding out that the guy that you think is your dad is, is not
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  your biological dad. And the way it happened, I oh, I
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  can, I can, I can walk back into it right now.
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  I can tell you I was wearing a Peach Terry cloth outfit, a
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  little Terry cloth shirt and Peach Terry cloth shorts with a
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  little tie on the side. It was a beautiful sunny day.
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  We were standing out by a hay wagon.
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  We used to sell antiques out front by a hay wagon, and my dad
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  asked my sister and I to walk out there and he's like, you
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  know, we're going through a lot. But I have to tell you in, in
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  case you ever want to donate a kidney to each other or
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  something. He looked right at me and he
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  says I'm not your father. Oh.
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  Wow. Wow.
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  He he said that mom had an affair.
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  My mom said she was raped and they're both gone now.
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  And I never found out the truth. Even through everything I went
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  through, going through cancer, going to prison, begging for the
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  truth, I never got it. Did you and your mom ever talk
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  about it? She refused.
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  And you know, she. Didn't want to talk about it,
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  she. Didn't want to talk about it.
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  You know, I kind of grew up in the era, you know, I'm, you
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  know, I grew was born in the 60s and in that area kind of just
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  you didn't talk about it, you just put it under the rug and
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  you moved on and that's just how things were dealt with.
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  And so did you think that with all that going on, that 'cause
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  you were an overachiever? Is that was that you like your
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  escape to like? That was my coping, that was my
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  coping mechanism. And that's how I tried to feel
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  accepted by my parents, like I am worth it.
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  Be, you know, be. I want you to love the fact that
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  you brought me into this world, no matter what the circumstances
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  are. I am good enough.
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  I am wanted. And I tried to do everything I
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  could to prove that, you know, I didn't just play sports.
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  I was the captain of the sports. I wasn't just in the marching
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  band. I was the drum majorette at the
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  marching band. You know, I wasn't just in the
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  musical, you know, It was fame. And I had to be Coco.
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  Like everything was like that. That's a lot for a kid, yeah.
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  Plus a lot of extra weight stress.
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  But it got me really far in life.
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  Sure did. Until it didn't.
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  A lot of people in our situation who are just as impacted or who
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  are addicts, you know, their negative coping skills, got them
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  through a lot, Sure, Until it didn't.
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  Yeah, it worked until it didn't. Exactly.
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  So you got through school, High school.
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  What was your what were you thinking when you left high
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  school? Was that like, I'm out on the
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  big frontier and I'm going to conquer the world?
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  Like what? What was what was your next big
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  thing you were thinking? I was very sheltered.
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  Lived in a very small town, sheltered from anything in this
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  world, sheltered from diversity, sheltered from drugs, sheltered
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  from violence, gangs. You know, it was upstate New
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  York, like 6 hours north of New York City.
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  Extremely sheltered. Beautiful area though.
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  I've been up that way, yeah. So gorgeous, So gorgeous.
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  You know, when I went to college inside the Blue line, it's at
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  Orange University in the Adirondack, really beautiful.
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  Very close to where the Olympics were twice.
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  And I got the only way I got to go to college.
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  And, you know, we were very poor.
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  You know, farming, you know, farmers in upstate New York is.
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  I got a full tuition scholarship.
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  So you got a full scholarship? Of course you did.
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  Well, of course because. That's how I run, right?
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  That's right, I'm going. To do it, I'm going to do it
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  big. Yes, get that full skull.
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  Not going. To go to county, I'm not going
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  to go to state. Feds.
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  That's right. Do it.
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  Right. So you roll into college.
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  What's college like for you? What's your world's college
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  world like? Because, I mean, a lot of times
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  that's where you really grow up, you know, because everybody's
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  kind of the same age, they're doing the same thing and.
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  Yeah, it's where I grew up. It's where my blinders came off.
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  You know, there's, you know, Saint Lawrence is a wannabe Ivy
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  League school, so that you've got, you know, the dichotomy
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  that the absolute split of people.
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  You have the very, very rich paid cash.
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  And then you have the rest of us who are on full tuition
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  scholarship and there's nothing in between.
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  You know, you have the people who came there with their
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  Mercedes and three of their horses and all of that.
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  And then there was me, who, you know, moms drove back in the
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  station. When I get there, I've got my
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  homemade quilt that I thought was so wonderful and special and
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  I was so embarrassed because alcohol and drugs and.
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  So really none of that was in your life in high school.
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  You were just a conquer in the world is all the things being
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  the team captain, all the deals that you're going through.
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  You didn't focus on anything else until you get to college.
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  Yeah, so the blinders come off, Myra.
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  You start enjoying yourself. You're seeing all the things
• 13:54
  that you haven't experienced. How was all that?
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  I'm interested in seeing there are a lot of my interesting in
• 14:05
  my like myself and I started doing college like for being an
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  addictive person can't do it and I say a lot.
• 14:19
  I would still an addicted person.
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  I haven't. You recognize that?
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  And I did. I did.
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  I And then cigarettes. I never smoked Cigarettes
• 14:27
  smoked. I have not pot.
• 14:30
  Never. And I got addicted to opioids
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  and ended up in federal prison. So you knew?
• 14:36
  I call myself a snotty addict. Right.
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  And there's it's funny I've talked to a lot of people that
• 14:43
  that I'm going to say prescriptions wrong talk to a
• 14:46
  lot of people that have that feeling that are in you know
• 14:49
  have been addicted and they they've I I forget who it was.
• 14:52
  It was one of the episodes where he said well I never he said
• 14:57
  they said I got I was into meth. He said I was never into meth
• 15:00
  That's not he's like cocaine. It's like, oh, Oh, well, OK All
• 15:04
  right. So, so Myra, did you think in
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  that time period what, what, what drew you to the medical
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  world? I my grandmother, Agatha Boyce
• 15:18
  Cummings, we called her Daddy. She was a nurse growing up and
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  she was the one human being that I probably respected the most in
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  this world. Even through college.
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  She used to send me $2.00 for an ice cream cone, but you'd think
• 15:31
  it was, you know, the scarlet, you know the end of the world
• 15:34
  because it was wrapped in tape. All like all wrapped in tape
• 15:37
  like this. All wrapped in tape like this
• 15:38
  for the 2 bucks, you know, I still wish I'd kept one, but I
• 15:43
  love Gatti and she was such an amazing nurse and she always
• 15:47
  talked about Doctor Bonanno. Of course I didn't realize it
• 15:49
  when I was little, but that's obviously her crush was Doctor
• 15:52
  Bonanno. But, and I just all the stories
• 15:55
  about Doctor Bonanno, I wanted to be that person that she could
• 15:58
  look up to, the way she looked after him, like just the
• 16:01
  admiration in her voice and you know, the strength that he gave
• 16:06
  her and how he lifted her up. You know, as a nurse in those
• 16:10
  days, she had a lot of power. She was that she was the number
• 16:16
  one nurse in New York City. Like she taught all the other
• 16:19
  nurses. She was an incredible.
• 16:21
  Kind of kind of a pioneer. Of women, she absolutely was,
• 16:26
  and I wanted to be the person that she advised.
• 16:29
  That's interesting. So that all makes sense.
• 16:34
  Yeah. So how does your, you know, you
• 16:36
  get into Med school? Is it?
• 16:38
  Was it, was it like you thought it would be?
• 16:41
  Or was it 'cause I always wonder, like, you know, 'cause
• 16:45
  people have these ideas about Med school, You know, Like, how
• 16:49
  do they get through it? What?
• 16:50
  How, how? How was how did you get through
• 16:52
  Med school? Well, let me back up just a
• 16:57
  little bit, 'cause it's Myra. I I never go the straight and
• 16:59
  narrow path. I didn't go straight from
• 17:01
  undergrad to Med school. That's way too easy.
• 17:03
  No, that's not me. Right.
• 17:05
  So in undergrad I ended up getting cancer.
• 17:09
  It was called clear cell carcinoma from a drug my mother
• 17:11
  took when she was pregnant with me.
• 17:13
  What what year was? The best of the Yes.
• 17:15
  Time period in college was that. 19 It was my junior year.
• 17:19
  So you were right in the middle of college.
• 17:23
  Right in the middle of it. A lot.
• 17:25
  To deal with. So I had to.
• 17:27
  I had to leave for surgery. So if you're pre Med you have to
• 17:32
  take like a year of physics and a year of chemistry and a year
• 17:35
  of organic chemistry and it it ruined that rhythm.
• 17:39
  So when I went back I kind of felt defeated and I stopped pre
• 17:42
  Med and I added education. My mother was a teacher, my
• 17:46
  sister was a teacher. I'm like, I'll be a good
• 17:48
  teacher, it'll be fine. And I was.
• 17:50
  I was a phenomenal teacher. So I ended up graduating and
• 17:55
  then I did my student teaching for the semester.
• 17:58
  I missed, so I did my student teaching.
• 18:00
  I got hired where I student taught, had the most phenomenal
• 18:04
  master teacher in the world, still one of my most dearest
• 18:08
  precious friends, and loved it. And I'm like, oh, this is meant
• 18:12
  to be had an amazing school. We were near Fort Drum, NY and
• 18:16
  we got money for all of they didn't have ADOD school so we
• 18:19
  got money for all of the military students.
• 18:22
  So it was an extremely wealthy school.
• 18:24
  So, you know, as a teacher in the 90s, I had a laptop for
• 18:28
  every student. I made them do PowerPoint
• 18:31
  presentations. I mean, we were very, very
• 18:33
  fortunate, but again, had to be the rebel.
• 18:37
  I didn't like the Regents program they had in New York,
• 18:39
  which is a mandated state exam. So I wrote a variance to the
• 18:43
  biology Regents. So could biology could be taught
• 18:45
  the way of? Course the mirror we taught.
• 18:51
  Don't do it easy. Oh yeah, we wrote a 700 page
• 18:55
  variance and we got it approved by the state and we taught
• 18:58
  biology the way it should be taught.
• 18:59
  Hands on. Really learning it was great,
• 19:03
  but after that I felt like the cancer beat me and I decided to
• 19:07
  try. So it was always, was it always
• 19:10
  in the back of your head, Myra, that you were, that you were
• 19:12
  thinking, I didn't get that completed.
• 19:15
  You left it undone. Does it sound like you liked it?
• 19:18
  You sound like you liked the teaching.
• 19:21
  Yeah, I loved it. And honestly, I think if I
• 19:23
  stayed a teacher, I probably wouldn't have gotten in trouble.
• 19:27
  But I felt like the cancer beat me.
• 19:30
  And this is where my arrogance and ego comes in.
• 19:34
  I felt like I maxed out, like I did everything I could do as a
• 19:38
  teacher. You know, I I got my masters
• 19:43
  while I was teaching. So I would teach from, you know,
• 19:45
  from 7:00 in the morning till three, drive an hour, go to
• 19:48
  school from 4:00 to 10:00, drive an hour and a half home.
• 19:50
  And I did that in a year and got my masters in a year while
• 19:53
  teaching. So I had my masters.
• 19:57
  I'd written the variance. I didn't want to be like a
• 20:00
  principal. I didn't want to go the
• 20:01
  administrative route. So where else could I go as a
• 20:03
  teacher? And that's when I started to
• 20:06
  think There's needs to be something more for me.
• 20:09
  I need to go back into medicine. I'm not going to let the cancer
• 20:12
  beat me. And that doesn't surprise me
• 20:15
  that you were. I mean your whole life had been
• 20:18
  getting and achieving, getting and achieving, getting and
• 20:21
  achieving. So, so you go, you have this in
• 20:25
  your mind of of cancer. I'm not going to let it beat me.
• 20:28
  And how difficult was for you to make that transition from
• 20:34
  basically being an accomplished teacher with a master's and then
• 20:36
  going back to school? I loved it.
• 20:40
  I'm a geek. I'm an absolute geek.
• 20:43
  I, you know, I really loved it. But I was scared.
• 20:45
  I would fail, to be honest. I had never studied a day in my
• 20:49
  life. I'd never had to, you know, As
• 20:51
  long as I went to class, I just retained it.
• 20:54
  And when I first went to Med school, I had to study and I
• 20:56
  didn't know how to study. No one had ever taught me.
• 20:59
  I had never needed to. And I failed the first class of
• 21:02
  my entire life. It was humbling.
• 21:04
  It was very humbling. My first year I didn't quit my
• 21:09
  teaching job. I took a year leave of absence
• 21:12
  because I was that afraid I would fail.
• 21:16
  So did it. And of course, being me, I left
• 21:19
  a year of lesson plans. Of course she did.
• 21:21
  I. Can't even imagine what that
• 21:23
  means. My my youngest daughter, when
• 21:26
  she takes off like for two or three days, she said.
• 21:28
  It's so painful because she's got to do all the lesson
• 21:30
  planning, you know, and. It was 63 ring binders, complete
• 21:37
  with a drawer of bulletin boards.
• 21:41
  Yeah, when I met Ryder placement, she's like, oh, so
• 21:44
  you're the infamous missus Mabry.
• 21:47
  So, Myra, what? Was there anything else eventful
• 21:50
  that happened in Med school or did you?
• 21:52
  You had that event, you flunked that first class, and then you
• 21:55
  figured it out. Yeah, I figured it out.
• 22:00
  And of course it wasn't enough. I had a vision.
• 22:02
  I wanted to be a family practitioner and have a group
• 22:06
  practice with a pediatrician and psych and daycare.
• 22:09
  I had this vision, so but I didn't know how to.
• 22:12
  I didn't know anything about business, so I did my MBA
• 22:15
  simultaneously in medical school.
• 22:17
  Of course you did, You know. Because medical school.
• 22:20
  You might as well do an MBA along the.
• 22:21
  Side A challenge, right? So our tests were on Monday, so
• 22:27
  that I took my MBA classes on Monday night.
• 22:30
  So I ended up doing that. And I I'm an osteopath.
• 22:33
  I don't know if you're familiar with D OS versus M DS.
• 22:37
  They both have all the same privileges in the United States,
• 22:40
  but osteopaths in the good old days philosophically believe
• 22:43
  that the body has the ability to heal itself.
• 22:46
  So I only applied to osteopathic schools because I truly do
• 22:48
  believe that and they use hands on manipulation to help the body
• 22:53
  to help itself. So I did.
• 22:56
  Of course. I did an extra year of
• 23:00
  fellowship in that to be able to treat people I know.
• 23:03
  It sounds like so much. Saying it all at once is a lot,
• 23:08
  so I did it an extra year, which paid for three years of my
• 23:12
  schooling. But it it gave me extra time to
• 23:16
  learn and to be proficient in the manipulation that osteopaths
• 23:20
  do. So I mean that's so much, I mean
• 23:23
  what you just said, what you just did up until that point in
• 23:26
  your life, I mean that's like for three or four people it.
• 23:32
  Is a lot. It didn't seem that way.
• 23:34
  I was very blessed with a beautiful brain.
• 23:38
  I was blessed with challenges growing up that gave me
• 23:41
  resiliency. I got married young.
• 23:44
  I got married at 21 to an amazing man who was extremely
• 23:48
  supportive, absent a lot because he was military.
• 23:51
  We were married 30 years. We spent seven of that together.
• 23:55
  The rest of it he was deployed or in school, you know, it's all
• 24:03
  I knew. So it seemed normal to me, but
• 24:07
  looking back, it was horrifying. You know, when I packed up for
• 24:12
  prison, I found some of the VHS tapes of the recordings when
• 24:16
  they invaded Haiti. He was one of the first people
• 24:20
  who invaded Haiti, and I was afraid he was going to die.
• 24:23
  So I recorded the news every single night in case I could
• 24:26
  could say, yeah, I'm going to cry that fear is.
• 24:31
  I think it would be similar as to someone you know that's being
• 24:34
  deployed and they're in a military environment where
• 24:38
  anything can happen. It's like the police officer you
• 24:40
  know that's walking the beat you they go and they you don't know
• 24:43
  if they're coming back. Absolutely.
• 24:46
  And you know, this was, we got married in 1990, so there were
• 24:51
  no cell phones. You know, there really wasn't
• 24:54
  mass e-mail. So he would call and if I wasn't
• 24:57
  home, it was an answering machine.
• 24:59
  You know, if I went to go groceries and came back and he
• 25:02
  it was an answering machine, he stood in line 2-3 hours for a 10
• 25:05
  minute phone call that literally just like in prison, at 10
• 25:08
  minutes in one second it hangs up on you.
• 25:12
  That was, it was awful. You know, as we got along in
• 25:15
  years, you know, eventually he had they have cell phones and
• 25:19
  satellite phones and you can talk to them at any time.
• 25:21
  But that's not how it was in the beginning.
• 25:24
  It was letters, lots and lots and lots of letters and very,
• 25:27
  very people. So.
• 25:28
  He's. Well, I'm sure it did I.
• 25:32
  Mean for a lot of different levels of that.
• 25:35
  So he's in and out of your life. You are now in the world of
• 25:41
  becoming a doctor. How did how did that work for
• 25:45
  you? Like it?
• 25:47
  Like when you when you get out of Med school, I know there's a
• 25:51
  residency and there's all those different things that happened.
• 25:53
  How did that work for you? Like, where did you stay around
• 25:56
  your area? Did you have to travel?
• 25:59
  What? Like how'd that go?
• 26:02
  So we went through military housing at the time on Long
• 26:04
  Island and luckily there's lots of hospitals in Long Island.
• 26:07
  So I was able to stay in that area and do all of my rotations
• 26:11
  and everything within, you know, a travelling within travel
• 26:15
  distance. Some people have to like
• 26:17
  literally move to do rotations and things like that.
• 26:20
  I didn't have to because I was in a Metropolitan.
• 26:22
  That. Was good and it gave me
• 26:25
  something to do while he was gone.
• 26:26
  So I didn't focus on it, you know?
• 26:29
  And of course I became the family support group leader.
• 26:31
  So I I was in charge of the all the wives while the husbands
• 26:34
  were gone. Because that's just how I roll.
• 26:36
  But I can see how all that also eats up that, you know, that
• 26:41
  stress that surrounds you, you're you're also able to kind
• 26:45
  of get that out if you're creating into this environment
• 26:47
  where you can talk to people about what everybody else is
• 26:49
  experiencing, which makes sense. Right.
• 26:54
  If I had taken advantage of that, it may have helped me, but
• 26:57
  I didn't allow that to happen. I put on that mask of
• 26:58
  everything's perfect, everything's perfect.
• 27:01
  I can help you. Like Instagram?
• 27:02
  You know I'm here to support you.
• 27:05
  My life was Instagram. The best dinner.
• 27:07
  The best vacation. The best outing?
• 27:10
  Yes. The best life.
• 27:11
  The. Best life?
• 27:13
  Absolutely. I was that person.
• 27:16
  I had no problems, no struggles, you know, anything.
• 27:19
  We're a struggle. It was just, you know, just to
• 27:21
  prove that I could handle it. That's really the image I put
• 27:25
  out there. But not only put out there, it's
• 27:27
  what I told myself. So I never let myself take a
• 27:32
  breath. It was like I was holding my
• 27:34
  breath that entire time and just adding one mask onto another
• 27:37
  onto another, onto another. You can handle it.
• 27:39
  You can handle it. You know, looking back, I I
• 27:41
  really didn't. I had one emotion.
• 27:44
  You had one emotion. I was just happy all the time.
• 27:48
  Happy and together all the time. That's a lot to be that all the
• 27:53
  time. That's on all the time.
• 27:57
  Yeah, my friends and family remind me.
• 27:59
  You know, every once in a while you'd have a breakdown and
• 28:01
  you'd, you know, cry and da da da da.
• 28:03
  But then the next day, you'll be right back.
• 28:05
  Yeah, so you get into the world that you're living, you become a
• 28:12
  doctor. OBGYN.
• 28:17
  I'm assuming that like, how long does?
• 28:20
  How long does this world happen before you enter into your
• 28:23
  nightmare? So the nightmare started in
• 28:29
  medical school. Actually I had migraine
• 28:32
  headaches severely to the point where people thought I shouldn't
• 28:35
  go to Med school. And I was we were on osteopathic
• 28:39
  school. So I would get treatments and
• 28:41
  that did really did help. The osteopathic treatments
• 28:43
  helped a great deal. But then for breakthrough I was
• 28:45
  prescribed opioids and then when I started residency, OBGYN
• 28:50
  residency. Your first year, as you run
• 28:52
  labor and delivery, you have to learn how to handle any labor
• 28:55
  emergency and you don't leave the floor, you know?
• 28:57
  And I practice in the good old days when the rules weren't
• 29:01
  really enforced, so you could stay up for 36 hours and work
• 29:05
  that long. And nowadays that doesn't
• 29:08
  happen. But in my day it did.
• 29:10
  And like if I had a a migraine, they would literally send me to
• 29:14
  the emergency room. I would get IV morphine, Valium
• 29:17
  and Reglan, sleep for an hour and go straight back to the
• 29:20
  store. I would get a prescription for
• 29:23
  120 Vicodin at a time. Did you feel like that you were
• 29:27
  getting addicted or what? How like because you knew that
• 29:31
  it was a medical medicinal. Did you feel like that the
• 29:34
  addiction was there? So again, I think this is part
• 29:39
  of the, the arrogance of medicine is that, well, I can
• 29:45
  handle it, 'cause I'm a doctor, right?
• 29:47
  Like, I know the risks, I know the side effects, I can handle
• 29:50
  it. And they're my doctors.
• 29:52
  Like, you know, if they're prescribing it, to me, it's
• 29:55
  fine. There's always that little
• 29:58
  knowing deep down inside that you know it's wrong.
• 30:01
  But you just, it's so easy to ignore with everyone around you
• 30:05
  is telling you something different and you have no other
• 30:09
  way to cope. So I had one taste of it.
• 30:14
  We had a vacation house in the Poconos and we went for a
• 30:18
  weekend and I didn't bring my opioids.
• 30:20
  And I went through very slight withdrawals like I was just
• 30:24
  like, irritable. And I was like, I think that's a
• 30:28
  withdrawal. It's OK.
• 30:29
  As soon as we get home, I'll just take some.
• 30:30
  It'll be fine. So you you had a feel.
• 30:34
  You just you were working. You were functioning, you were
• 30:38
  functioning through it. They say there is no such thing
• 30:44
  as a functioning addict. I beg to differ because, you
• 30:49
  know, I was functioning at the highest level.
• 30:51
  I was, you know, right before I got arrested, I was the chief of
• 30:55
  the department. I was the medical director of
• 30:57
  Family Planning I. Know, I remember you telling me
• 30:59
  all that when we talked on the phone.
• 31:01
  I mean, you had risen to prominence in a, you know, some
• 31:06
  people are just doctors, but you actually got into the upper
• 31:10
  echelon of whatever you can do in that world.
• 31:13
  And again, seems like that's a lot you know to have on your
• 31:20
  shoulders that you're carrying. Did you as as as this all
• 31:28
  happened, kind of walk us through the that time period
• 31:36
  where things got crazy? Yeah, we'll we'll skip some of
• 31:44
  the fun stories. So I has a stress relief I and I
• 31:54
  hope I can. Say anything on this show.
• 31:56
  This is not of our success. So I had an affair to deal with,
• 32:06
  part of the stress, and the affair was with a woman, a
• 32:09
  nurse, just because, you know, we like to sit up a little just
• 32:12
  to make it fun. And I'd had five surgeries in
• 32:16
  five years. One of them was totally
• 32:19
  reconstruction. And after that, I got a caught
• 32:21
  in my leg that ended up traveling to my lungs.
• 32:24
  And I was treated at my hospital.
• 32:26
  They didn't believe me that I had the clot.
• 32:28
  And then when I had, when I traveled to my lungs, they
• 32:30
  didn't believe me. They said I was just anxious and
• 32:33
  gave me Benadryl. And then the next morning when
• 32:35
  they found out I have a pulmonary embolism, I was rushed
• 32:37
  to the ICU, but it was all because of this knee.
• 32:41
  And I kept saying it's not OK. It's not OK.
• 32:43
  It's not OK a year and a half. And so I just started writing
• 32:46
  myself prescriptions and then because I just was so frustrated
• 32:50
  with the medical field that I was angry and.
• 32:52
  How ironic is that though, that you are in the medical field,
• 32:56
  you're telling them what's wrong with you and you're you don't
• 32:59
  feel like you're getting the treatment that you should be
• 33:01
  getting as as as the patient? I was his wife's OBGYN.
• 33:07
  I let him deliver his own baby, hands over hand, and he didn't
• 33:11
  believe me when I told him that I was having a PE.
• 33:14
  Wow, that's something. It's a lot, actually, My my
• 33:22
  criminal lawyer said. I really can't help you with
• 33:25
  your criminal case. You kind of screwed yourself,
• 33:26
  but I wish you'd come to me when you had that PE 'cause, that was
• 33:29
  medical malpractice. I really couldn't help you back
• 33:31
  that. Right, right.
• 33:36
  Yeah, 'cause that that was real. You know, that was real.
• 33:40
  So I started writing prescriptions to myself and then
• 33:43
  it started. I would write one for my nurse
• 33:46
  and then she'd give them to me and then she would write one.
• 33:48
  And then we started playing back and forth and and then I just
• 33:52
  started to get bold and writing them under family members names,
• 33:56
  get getting my family involved because that's what addicts do,
• 33:59
  because my family will never turn in.
• 34:01
  Because I I don't. I don't know my does.
• 34:04
  Can a doctor write a prescription to themselves?
• 34:09
  Legally yes. Ethically, no.
• 34:14
  So I never wrote one for myself. I wrote one for my girlfriend.
• 34:18
  I wrote for friends. I wrote for family.
• 34:21
  Of course they didn't. Did your husband have any idea
• 34:23
  that any of the stuff that you just talked about was going on?
• 34:28
  Nobody. Did.
• 34:29
  Nobody did. You were living two.
• 34:31
  You were they. You were living two different
• 34:32
  lives. Two lives will claim yeah, my
• 34:35
  sister will claim that she that she knew, but if she did, she
• 34:38
  never said anything to me. But no, nobody knew.
• 34:42
  People started to realize that I started to have emotional out
• 34:46
  at. Work or just in general?
• 34:47
  As I think in general and that I wasn't coping as well as I did,
• 34:55
  but everyone thought it was the stress which.
• 34:56
  Would make so much. On my plates, you know,
• 34:59
  absolutely. And I was able to rationalize
• 35:02
  it. And also I was able to this
• 35:06
  sounds so terrible and it's, you know, it's awful.
• 35:08
  But this was addiction and this, you know it, which is a part of
• 35:12
  me. You know, I would power people.
• 35:14
  And I would say, well, you don't understand.
• 35:16
  You're not in the position I'm in.
• 35:17
  I have people's lives under my hands.
• 35:19
  You don't understand how hard that is.
• 35:21
  I save lives. I bring lives into this world.
• 35:24
  Like, and I that was my way of pushing people away, shutting
• 35:29
  them off, which is a thinking error.
• 35:30
  Cut off, cutting them off so that so that they could.
• 35:35
  For those, for those down the Cayman Islands, listening, Ardap
• 35:38
  is a residential drug and addiction program that you can
• 35:43
  get here off in prison. And both Meyer and I were in
• 35:46
  that program. And there's a lot of different
• 35:48
  steps that they talk about some. Sometimes when they come up, you
• 35:50
  recognize them because you just pushed one out there.
• 35:55
  Oh, I I used every single one of them.
• 35:57
  Let me tell you I I used everyone, but it allowed me to
• 36:00
  keep people at a distance. Well.
• 36:03
  I here's. What I'm like I was doing so
• 36:05
  they OK, but here's. I get that, Ira.
• 36:07
  But here's what I'm wondering, 'cause you were living two
• 36:11
  separate worlds, basically, and and and crossing over daily in
• 36:16
  those worlds. Did any of that, like, worry
• 36:21
  scare that when when you got into this prescription thing did
• 36:27
  you think, uh oh, well, I don't know if I should be.
• 36:30
  Well, that's OK. I mean, what did you rationalize
• 36:32
  it out That it's it's it's good to be OK?
• 36:36
  Or did it scare you that I'm, I'm, I'm, I've stepped over into
• 36:40
  no man's land? Both.
• 36:44
  Both. I think there's always that
• 36:46
  knowing that you're doing wrong, but you know when you're doing
• 36:49
  wrong. I just wouldn't let myself look
• 36:52
  at it. I was very good at putting my
• 36:53
  head in the sand. Even during my criminal case, I
• 36:55
  put my head in the sand. I actually went back and read my
• 36:59
  report, my PSR, for the first time ever.
• 37:01
  Before this podcast, I had never.
• 37:03
  Read that if I was human. I had never read it.
• 37:09
  My head was in the sand a lot, and it was in the sand a lot
• 37:11
  with my addiction as well. So I knew, you know, I'd be
• 37:15
  lying to say I didn't know. Every time I went to pick up a
• 37:18
  prescription, my heart was calming.
• 37:20
  I was sitting in the car, it was so nervous.
• 37:22
  And while I was getting, I was chit chatting and you know, like
• 37:26
  all nervous and playing the power card and making up
• 37:30
  elaborate lies. And then once I got in the car,
• 37:34
  I'm like nothing to worry about. Your doctor, were you, were you
• 37:38
  worried or the other? The other question I was
• 37:41
  thinking, Meyer, about that is you knew it was wrong.
• 37:45
  You've had an adrenaline rush every time this happened.
• 37:47
  The other person that was in this with you, the nurse, the
• 37:50
  person you were having an affair with, did that get entangled to
• 37:54
  where you thought, what if she says something?
• 37:56
  What if she does something? And then I'm part of all this.
• 38:02
  Oh, absolutely. That was a very toxic
• 38:05
  relationship. Very manipulative.
• 38:08
  Of course I was using her. She was using me, you know, I
• 38:13
  was supporting her financially. She was supporting me in drugs,
• 38:17
  a very ugly, terrible situation. And there's threats back and
• 38:21
  forth, you know, and she's like, well, if you don't do this, I'm
• 38:24
  going to call your medical director.
• 38:25
  I'm going to, I'm going to call, you know, the OIG and and turn
• 38:29
  you in. I like well.
• 38:30
  And she was, I mean, that would be a real fear.
• 38:32
  I mean, she, she didn't have nearly as much to lose as you
• 38:35
  did in that in that relationship exactly.
• 38:38
  So did you feel like when all this was happening, as towards
• 38:43
  the end of this happening, did you think that things could end
• 38:46
  up really dark like they did? Or did you just think, you know
• 38:50
  what, I'm going to get done with this and move on and won't do
• 38:54
  this anymore? Or were you so deep into it that
• 38:57
  if you didn't even think about the idea of getting caught?
• 39:02
  I thought about the idea of getting caught, but again, I was
• 39:06
  just like, I have so many people fooled, including myself.
• 39:11
  And again, who's going to look at me?
• 39:14
  I am successful. I am in so many high-powered
• 39:18
  positions. You know, I was the face of my
• 39:22
  hospital. I was on billboards everywhere,
• 39:25
  like who's going to look at me? No one.
• 39:27
  'S most intoxicating how much you had accomplished.
• 39:32
  It really is. And that level of I have no
• 39:35
  humility. If you had asked me that, I
• 39:37
  would have said, of course I'm humble.
• 39:39
  I take care of humans. I'm the most humble person ever.
• 39:42
  Oh, I did get humble, but. When did you start getting a
• 39:46
  feel, or did you ever get a feeling that they were looking
• 39:49
  at you? Did you ever have that, like
• 39:53
  over your shoulder, looking over your shoulder, that there's
• 39:56
  something going on? My I caught my nurse in a couple
• 40:02
  lies and I and of course pressing her was difficult
• 40:08
  because I was always afraid that she was going to turn me in.
• 40:11
  So it was this like really delicate balance.
• 40:14
  But I caught her like writing a few prescriptions because she
• 40:18
  knew all my passwords and everything is online.
• 40:21
  And when I when I questioned her about it, she of course then
• 40:26
  threatened me. So I stopped questioning and lo
• 40:29
  and behold, when I finally did get arrested, she had written
• 40:33
  thousands of prescriptions. And Oh yes, remember, I looked
• 40:38
  it up. So they do conversions of
• 40:41
  prescriptions into kilograms. You want to just guess how many
• 40:46
  I had? My wildest thoughts, kilograms.
• 40:48
  Plus it's. 683. Yeah, that's a lot.
• 40:58
  So they basically thought I was a kingpin, drug dealer, selling.
• 41:03
  So it was a very long, ugly investigation because they
• 41:06
  didn't think that anyone could have prescribed that many
• 41:10
  opioids and taken them themselves.
• 41:13
  My girlfriend did start selling and she did start using heroin.
• 41:17
  So I don't know what percent was me and what percent was her.
• 41:19
  But regardless, that's a lot. Like, you know that the the
• 41:22
  federal system works on a point system.
• 41:27
  So I had 30 points. That's a lot, which is King.
• 41:31
  It's just Kington status. Absolutely.
• 41:34
  Yeah. I had 27 alone.
• 41:36
  And then I got extra for being in a position of authority
• 41:42
  because I was the leader of the two of us.
• 41:44
  I I was the doctor, she was the nurse.
• 41:46
  And I got extra points. I got points for having no
• 41:50
  connection to society because I had no children, which was very
• 41:53
  heart wrenching because I wanted children.
• 41:55
  It couldn't have them. And I got points for my degrees
• 41:58
  because it's a position of authority.
• 42:01
  So all the things in my life that I was proud of, yes,
• 42:05
  actually hurt me in the prison system, which I found so
• 42:08
  interesting. It's crazy how that what you
• 42:10
  just said is true. Was it when they came for you?
• 42:19
  Did it? Was it a knock on the door or
• 42:24
  was it a call from your attorney?
• 42:26
  How did it come to you? It was it was a sit down at work
• 42:32
  like where are all these coming from And I made-up a great big
• 42:36
  huge lie and then in walk the DEA agents and said you're
• 42:41
  lying. Going through your mind then,
• 42:45
  yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 42:51
  And my first instinct, because I had lied for so long, lied for
• 42:55
  so long about the drugs, about the affair, about other things
• 43:00
  in my life that we don't even have time to get into today.
• 43:03
  I am just lying for so long. I started to believe my own
• 43:07
  lies, and I've gotten away with it for so long.
• 43:10
  It was just my automatic go to, you know, And my first sponsor
• 43:14
  said to me, she's like, you're being as honest as you can be.
• 43:17
  I got so brave, but then over time I was like, I really was.
• 43:22
  I wasn't ready to be really honest and to really look at
• 43:25
  what I had done and the impact and the people that I hurt it.
• 43:29
  I really I wasn't. I wasn't being as honest, I
• 43:32
  wasn't being 100% honest. It was only as I could be at
• 43:35
  that point, at that stage. So I first name stink was a lie,
• 43:39
  but I did try to do that. I tried to lie and that's why I
• 43:42
  got obstruction of justice on well.
• 43:45
  Because it was it. Yeah, because that has.
• 43:48
  Been how you had coped and gotten through for all those
• 43:51
  years. Absolutely.
• 43:54
  So I'm trying to think on this time frame, 'cause there's a lot
• 44:00
  of people that would have fought when the DEA thing happened.
• 44:05
  Did you're with your husband? And I'm thinking, right still.
• 44:10
  OK, so did this all come as a total shock to him?
• 44:15
  Yeah. Yes, everybody.
• 44:18
  So like you said at the beginning, everyone found out in
• 44:22
  one day that I was having an affair with a woman.
• 44:26
  I was addicted to opioids, I was writing illegal prescription, I
• 44:29
  was losing my job and going to prison.
• 44:32
  That's a lot in one day. That's what I was saying is like
• 44:35
  a Netflix series that you binge on on the weekend.
• 44:38
  There's a lot to unpack there. There's oh.
• 44:41
  Absolutely. All right, Maya, I want to
• 44:44
  unpack the rest of this. Before we do, I want to
• 44:46
  recognize our the White Collar Support group.
• 44:49
  I'm Our Success Podcast is sponsored by the White Collar
• 44:51
  Support Group. It's the world's first support
• 44:53
  group devoted to people navigating the White Collar
• 44:56
  criminal justice system. I'm a member of the White Collar
• 44:59
  Support Group, and I can tell you that this is a bunch of
• 45:02
  people who help each other through the criminal justice
• 45:05
  journey for free. For free.
• 45:07
  Whether you're just starting your journey or you've been
• 45:09
  through, I made it to the other side.
• 45:11
  This is a great space for you. Come join us on Zoom Monday 7:00
• 45:15
  PM Eastern Time. 4:00 PM specific For information, go to
• 45:18
  prisonist.org. That's prisonist.org.
• 45:21
  Start here. OK, Myra.
• 45:23
  So yes. I have to say one thing, Brent.
• 45:28
  I have to put a plug. In please do.
• 45:30
  White collar support group. If I had found that group before
• 45:33
  I went to prison, my life would have been very different.
• 45:37
  But I'm grateful I found them after because my RE entry.
• 45:41
  I struggled more in RE entry than I have at any other point.
• 45:45
  So you know, I found them at my darkest, which is really
• 45:49
  important. And I even when I get in dark
• 45:51
  Times Now, if I talk to somebody in that group.
• 45:54
  I totally agree. With you, I know I'm not alone.
• 45:57
  It is amazing. I've second everything you just
• 46:01
  said and I wish I would have found them before I went in.
• 46:04
  But the fact that after the re entry part is something that,
• 46:09
  you know, there's not a handbook for and you know, finding people
• 46:13
  you can talk to where you think that you're not crazy is finding
• 46:17
  other crazy people to talk to. I guess this is what that means.
• 46:20
  But then you don't feel crazy. But it it's it's fantastic and
• 46:25
  and I'm so proud to to have them as a sponsor on the show.
• 46:30
  All right. Going back to Myra, how long
• 46:33
  does that happen? From the DEA sitting down with
• 46:36
  you that day to you're looking at a judge and a plea deal and
• 46:43
  all that. So that the DEA was 2017.
• 46:52
  I finally got sentenced in March of. 2020 and let's go, let's go
• 46:56
  back a little bit. So when you do have that
• 46:59
  conversation with your family, with your husband, what is the
• 47:03
  reaction to Myra being what we didn't know Myra was?
• 47:11
  A lot of Oh, my God, what's gonna happen?
• 47:16
  I'm so sorry. How can we help you?
• 47:19
  Why? Why didn't you tell us?
• 47:21
  Why didn't you reach out to us? We knew something was wrong.
• 47:24
  We knew something. Was wrong.
• 47:25
  But you were unreachable. Yeah, they were like you were
• 47:29
  unreachable. And like I said, I did
• 47:31
  everything I could to keep people at a distance, which is a
• 47:34
  very addict behavior, you know, because you don't want to be
• 47:37
  caught. So if you keep people at a
• 47:39
  distance, you don't let them ask you question you.
• 47:44
  So you just I pushed and pushed and pushed, and everyone was
• 47:48
  actually just relieved that it was out.
• 47:50
  They're like, OK, this sucks, but at least we know what we're
• 47:54
  dealing with now, because I hadn't realized, and I don't
• 47:58
  even think they had realized how frustrated they were and how
• 48:00
  much over time that they had lost the essence of Myra.
• 48:05
  So it was almost the biggest relief of my life.
• 48:08
  You were relieved, like. The And so was my family,
• 48:12
  because finally they figured out what the world was.
• 48:14
  Wrong with me. You know and once you know what
• 48:17
  the problem is, you can start working on a solution.
• 48:19
  Exactly. So it was it was the biggest
• 48:24
  weight lifted. How?
• 48:26
  How? Crazy.
• 48:27
  How crazy is that Myra, that the worst bottom, rock bottom
• 48:31
  moment. You're relieved that you can
• 48:33
  start working on yourself from that point for it because I I've
• 48:37
  I've, I think this is very very true for people who hit rock
• 48:41
  bottom because I I remember my rock bottom moment like it was
• 48:44
  yesterday. It most people say that it's the
• 48:49
  end but if you recognize the rock bottom moment to survive it
• 48:54
  it can be a new beginning and there those are so drastically
• 48:57
  different things that I just said but it's so true and some
• 49:02
  people never experience a rock bottom.
• 49:03
  So if you do experience a rock bottom and you see it as
• 49:08
  something that, OK, I can't get any lower, which way do I go?
• 49:12
  And you go the other way, being the new beginning of whatever
• 49:15
  that is, you're going to survive it.
• 49:19
  Absolutely. There's a lot packaged in that.
• 49:23
  Someone said to me once, and it was someone in an A a meeting,
• 49:27
  you know, they said you hit your rock bottom when you stop
• 49:29
  digging. I like that.
• 49:32
  And that hit me so hard because one gives you accountability.
• 49:36
  You created that hole, like you dug that.
• 49:39
  And then you also have control over when you stop.
• 49:45
  Like your bottom is when you stop.
• 49:46
  And like you said, some people don't experience it because some
• 49:49
  people don't dig the hole. You know, I I started digging
• 49:54
  and then when I got in trouble, instead of stopping digging, I
• 49:58
  dug more and I dug tunnel sideways and I tried to create a
• 50:01
  that's how to create a tunnel to cylinder me and you.
• 50:03
  But it's, you know, like let me say more, I'll give over here.
• 50:07
  The hell have to be over here? But you do kind of have to worry
• 50:09
  about the people that say they don't have problems, 'cause you.
• 50:11
  I I almost think you need to turn and run when somebody says
• 50:14
  that because everybody's got something going on and yeah.
• 50:19
  I was perfect. I was perfect.
• 50:22
  Everything I, you know, absolutely you know I I
• 50:26
  succeeded in everything I did. You know, and and I did do so.
• 50:32
  It made wonderful impacts on people's lives.
• 50:34
  And I can say that now, you know, my students and my
• 50:37
  patients wrote character rough ride letters for me for my
• 50:39
  sentencing. It was, really.
• 50:42
  Beautiful. I think we talked about this on
• 50:43
  the phone. There's something about that
• 50:46
  that happens because it's such a dark period of time.
• 50:49
  But when you get those letters that it's almost like you being
• 50:54
  at your funeral and not being dead.
• 50:56
  You get to hear what people think of you and they're trying
• 50:59
  to help you. And you know, I took those
• 51:01
  letters with me to prison, 'cause, you know, if I was at a
• 51:04
  dark time, you know, I would get a letter out and read it
• 51:07
  because, you know, you feel better.
• 51:09
  But there is nothing more meaningful than in getting those
• 51:14
  letters, 'cause people have to take the time to do that.
• 51:17
  People only write letters, you know that's like and to do that
• 51:21
  and to get as many as you got and the people that in the space
• 51:26
  of that where you got it's, it's even though you're going through
• 51:29
  the the darkest moment, it's like Oh my gosh, that feels
• 51:32
  good. It is funny how a lot of people
• 51:38
  justice impacted turn to the same methods to try to cope.
• 51:42
  I did the same thing. Of course I couldn't self
• 51:44
  surrender, but I had my family send those letters into me and
• 51:49
  you know, in those dark moments just to read them and remember
• 51:52
  that that's a part of you as well.
• 51:54
  Like, that's still a part of you as well, you know.
• 51:58
  And that was and even during sentencing and the when the
• 52:01
  judge read the name of 47 people, wrote letters, my lawyer
• 52:05
  said just have them stop. That's enough.
• 52:08
  And but she read the name of every single person.
• 52:11
  And I was like, OK, that's love, that's love, that's love, that's
• 52:15
  forgiveness, that's grace, that's compassion.
• 52:17
  And I just kept saying. This to myself, you just said
• 52:19
  those words. Because when they read the bad
• 52:21
  stuff, you. Need to hear that.
• 52:23
  Grace, compassion, forgiveness, love.
• 52:27
  Well, let's talk about that. You're, I don't know how, how
• 52:30
  long of a period that was, but you went through that whole
• 52:33
  thing. You're you're in the courtroom.
• 52:37
  Did you have an idea, Myra, what they were gonna give you?
• 52:43
  Well, well, no, because their only offer was nine years.
• 52:47
  That's a big swallow of gulp. And we said no, which is a
• 52:53
  really ballsy thing. The federal government?
• 52:56
  The USA. Oh.
• 52:56
  So yeah, really ballsy with the federal government.
• 53:00
  So I walked into my sentencing. She did tell me that I wouldn't
• 53:03
  be allowed to self surrender. So I walked in knowing I was
• 53:05
  going to get coughed and walked away.
• 53:07
  She didn't give me that grace A. Lot of people.
• 53:09
  A lot of people just don't. I walked in having, right.
• 53:13
  So I I have to give her credit for that.
• 53:17
  I had no idea. You know, I was looking at 11 to
• 53:21
  13 years. My only offer was 9 that I had
• 53:24
  rejected. My lawyers were hoping for five.
• 53:30
  My husband, who's now my ex-husband.
• 53:31
  I still call him my husband though, because he's my best
• 53:33
  friend. He was set that it was going to
• 53:35
  be 4. He's just like my right.
• 53:36
  It's going to be 4. I just know it is.
• 53:38
  And ended up being 54 months of 4 1/2 years.
• 53:43
  So they handcuff you. They take you.
• 53:46
  How long do you go through that? Did did you go through the whole
• 53:50
  transfer stuff and Oklahoma and all that good stuff and
• 53:54
  Jacqueline and you got it. Yeah, Myra's got to experience
• 53:58
  everything. So I ended up going to Albany
• 54:06
  County in New York, which is one of the top ten workers.
• 54:08
  Heard of that one? Prisons in Yeah, everyone is
• 54:12
  sort of that one. It's horrible.
• 54:14
  It was scary and awful and dirty and skanky.
• 54:18
  And I was horrified. Oh, there and oh, there.
• 54:22
  There was no words how scared I was.
• 54:25
  I was there for three days, and then I got transferred down to
• 54:29
  MDC in Brooklyn. Metropolitan Detention Center in
• 54:32
  Brooklyn, which is a pretrial facility, but it's also there's
• 54:36
  no federal prison in upstate New York.
• 54:39
  So they use MDC as a place to hold you in a federal facility
• 54:45
  until you can do the transfer to Oklahoma City and then go to
• 54:49
  your final destination, which we we call my deployment and we
• 54:55
  either call it my paid vacation or my deployment.
• 54:59
  Well, it was interesting, Elvis said.
• 55:02
  He's like, I finally understand what I put you through through
• 55:05
  all those years. He's like, because you're in a
• 55:07
  very scary place. I don't know what's happening.
• 55:10
  I can't reach you. I can't call you.
• 55:12
  I just have to wait for you to to reach out to me for a phone
• 55:16
  call or an e-mail or a letter. I have no idea what's happening.
• 55:19
  I can't help you. He's like, I finally understand
• 55:23
  what I put you through in all those years.
• 55:25
  So you experience all that and you finally end end up where?
• 55:29
  So what? So NDC on March 11th, 2020.
• 55:38
  And if that rings a bell, the. World starts shutting down.
• 55:40
  Yes, March 13th was the federal shutdown.
• 55:45
  So I got stuck at MDC in Brooklyn for a year.
• 55:51
  Didn't see the light of day for a year.
• 55:53
  It's a box within a box. It was a very long time.
• 55:59
  And it's interesting, you know, one of the things I really
• 56:01
  learned, I learned a lot this process.
• 56:05
  But one of them is it's always going to be OK.
• 56:07
  Like I had told myself, they told me I was going to go to a
• 56:09
  camp. I'm like, as long as I go to a
• 56:11
  camp, I can be outside, I can have my family, I'll be fine.
• 56:14
  I'll be OK That didn't happen then I'm like, well, as long as
• 56:18
  my family can visit me, I'll be OK Then the shut down.
• 56:23
  Well, as long as I can walk, I'll be OK And then they shut
• 56:27
  down the gym. Well, as long as I can do videos
• 56:31
  to VHS videos, I'll be OK. Well, then I got for quarantine.
• 56:36
  I was quarantined in the chute for two months before I went to
• 56:40
  Oklahoma City. And finally I looked at myself
• 56:44
  and I said, you know what? No matter what my circumstances,
• 56:47
  I'm still going to be OK because I have all of these
• 56:50
  contingencies like if this, then that.
• 56:54
  And I realized, no, it's just OK.
• 56:56
  Such a big thing. Life lesson though, is that you
• 57:00
  can adapt to almost anything. You know, it's it's, I mean,
• 57:07
  never want somebody to have to go through that, but it's crazy
• 57:12
  what you can adapt to. Absolutely.
• 57:17
  And you know, when I was in the shoe, it was 13 steps around and
• 57:22
  I was walking an hour a day. I would do 15,000 laps at 13
• 57:28
  steps. You know, I did calisthenics, I
• 57:32
  did burpees. I'm like I lost 120 lbs in
• 57:34
  prison like I was. Of course you did.
• 57:36
  You gotta do something great. Write a book about that.
• 57:39
  I do. Something great.
• 57:42
  That's right, 13 steps, 13 steps a little.
• 57:48
  A little gig on the. Egg and one more.
• 57:49
  Give me 13. Steps Absolutely, because
• 57:53
  there's always one more. So you the, the, I think the the
• 57:56
  thing too that's that's kind of fascinated about your journey
• 58:00
  through all that is once you got to where you were supposed to
• 58:05
  be, it had to be like so much of like you're almost like you had
• 58:12
  been released in a sense. You OK?
• 58:17
  So we went from MDC Brooklyn, which is where Gian Maxwell was,
• 58:21
  by the way. I got to see her.
• 58:23
  But you said I I don't want to go over that like you or or
• 58:30
  disregard the way that. So you were there with her, but
• 58:33
  you said that she had like her own like area.
• 58:37
  Right, she was. And so the women, they built a
• 58:42
  new facility for the men. The women got the old one.
• 58:45
  So they rigged the floors. It was like a dorm, like
• 58:48
  setting. It was all open dorms.
• 58:50
  So we had a dorm. She already been sentenced.
• 58:56
  No, she was just. Being held.
• 58:58
  She just came in, yeah, she yeah, she came pre trial.
• 59:02
  There was 64. I'm talking about Jolene
• 59:05
  Maxwell, by the way. In our door.
• 59:06
  I didn't hear that at the beginning.
• 59:10
  Yeah, yeah. Again, Maxwell who?
• 59:11
  Yeah, so she had that entire space to herself on another
• 59:17
  floor. That so the exercise rooms have
• 59:20
  cages on the walls so you could see through our cage to her cage
• 59:25
  and once they realized we could do that, they blackened it out.
• 59:27
  So we couldn't. But there was a couple weeks
• 59:30
  where we could see her like doing laps and but she had that
• 59:33
  entire space where we had 64 bunk beds, so you know, 128
• 59:39
  women. One it was her, it's.
• 59:42
  Incredible. I mean, prisoners don't get that
• 59:45
  kind of space anywhere. No.
• 59:49
  And she had three FBI agents. Every day with the Jeffrey
• 59:52
  Epstein thing to happen again. Exactly.
• 59:55
  On top of the CEO, yeah. That's interesting.
• 1:00:00
  So what? So.
• 1:00:01
  It was. Myra, when you get to the place
• 1:00:05
  where you're supposed to be finally a year later, what is
• 1:00:09
  your mindset and going into that?
• 1:00:14
  I had a lot of anxiety because of course all I could think of
• 1:00:17
  is R DAP, R DAP, R DAP. I need my year, I need to get
• 1:00:19
  in, you know, and I kept, so I did an R DAP, the non
• 1:00:22
  residential version, while I was in Brooklyn.
• 1:00:25
  So I had already been approved, which is like the biggest part.
• 1:00:28
  It's like getting approved is the biggest part.
• 1:00:30
  So I was very grateful that I was on the list.
• 1:00:33
  So I just needed to get all this.
• 1:00:37
  So finally after two months in the shoe, of course, Oklahoma, I
• 1:00:40
  got to go. You know I got to fly Conair.
• 1:00:43
  Never heard anything good about any of that.
• 1:00:46
  It's never good to travel as a prisoner, but to go conair to
• 1:00:49
  Oklahoma? Get transported out.
• 1:00:51
  There's nothing that ever ends up good about those stories.
• 1:00:55
  No, no. But I got to go.
• 1:00:58
  So then I got to spend what did I spend 3 weeks maybe in
• 1:01:01
  Oklahoma City. And then finally got to Alderson
• 1:01:05
  and I got quarantined there because it's still COVID.
• 1:01:07
  So I had 64 days where I was still inside.
• 1:01:11
  But I could see the grass, I could see the trees, I could
• 1:01:14
  see, I could see the clouds, I could hear the birds.
• 1:01:18
  We got wreck time when no one else was outside.
• 1:01:21
  We were allowed to go. Oh, it was.
• 1:01:23
  I literally fell to the ground and kissed the earth like.
• 1:01:27
  And I'm such an earthbound person.
• 1:01:28
  Like I grew up on a farm. I've always been a gardener.
• 1:01:32
  Like, if I'm gonna rejuvenate, it's in the earth.
• 1:01:34
  It's, it's hiking, you know, it's kayaking, horseback riding
• 1:01:39
  it. It's so, So to be stuck in
• 1:01:42
  cement for so long. I felt free there.
• 1:01:47
  Like I was like I could be outside.
• 1:01:49
  I could sit on a picnic table. It was, yeah, it was a big.
• 1:01:53
  How'd you do your time there? Did you have a good prison job?
• 1:01:56
  Did you have people that you've kind of got to know?
• 1:02:02
  So it was of course COVID, so everything was limited of.
• 1:02:05
  Course I, you know, I I got, you know, I went to prison and and
• 1:02:09
  got out at the very end of 2016, so I didn't.
• 1:02:12
  But I often thought about it and it's strange like when you get
• 1:02:15
  out of prison and I would see like all the things that we were
• 1:02:19
  doing to lock down people on the outside.
• 1:02:21
  I was thinking, this has to be the very worst time ever that
• 1:02:26
  you could be in prison because any privilege that you would
• 1:02:29
  have that a prisoner feels like they they have and they take
• 1:02:32
  that away, whether it be visiting rights or walk in the
• 1:02:35
  yard or working out or just anything like that, and then
• 1:02:38
  they take that away. That really feels like you're, I
• 1:02:44
  don't know, I don't even know the word for that.
• 1:02:46
  But it has to be the very worst time that somebody could go to
• 1:02:48
  prison. You're like imprisoned within
• 1:02:52
  the prison. So yeah, so basically all the
• 1:02:55
  jobs were gone. I did do cottage maintenance,
• 1:02:57
  'cause that one was still there. Like I when I was in Brooklyn, I
• 1:03:01
  taught the GED, so that was good, because I felt like I was
• 1:03:04
  helping people. And, you know, they kind of
• 1:03:07
  protected me, 'cause, you know, you get little things like paper
• 1:03:10
  and pens and erasers and like things that people.
• 1:03:13
  Want. And you were a teacher, you
• 1:03:14
  know? That's kind of.
• 1:03:15
  How By by trade? You.
• 1:03:16
  You. That's what you you were good
• 1:03:18
  at? That was really good.
• 1:03:22
  And that we also got, they got gummies and candies and you
• 1:03:25
  know, so they got treats. So they would just give me a
• 1:03:29
  pile of them and then I could give out rewards.
• 1:03:32
  So I was that's how I got through.
• 1:03:35
  That's how I got through MDC. But Alderson, all of those jobs
• 1:03:39
  were gone, but everything was shut down.
• 1:03:41
  I mean there was there was no gym, there was no church.
• 1:03:44
  There was we were filed into the cafeteria and we and we picked
• 1:03:50
  up a Styrofoam tray and then we were filed back and it was 1
• 1:03:53
  unit at a time and you got some days you got 45 minutes outside.
• 1:04:01
  But if there weren't enough Cos, if they weren't in the mood, if
• 1:04:04
  it was bad weather, you didn't even get so you're just locked
• 1:04:07
  in with 120 women and my R DAP was extremely strict and lots of
• 1:04:17
  pettiness and manipulation and, you know, trying to get other
• 1:04:21
  people in trouble and. It's like a little cult.
• 1:04:24
  So yeah, it is a cult. It's absolutely a cult.
• 1:04:28
  That's such a good way to describe it.
• 1:04:30
  But I, you know, I was just determined to make the best of
• 1:04:32
  it. You know, they made us
• 1:04:34
  individualized lesson plans, and mine was 13 pages long.
• 1:04:40
  They wanted me to read 50 books like like I had, which was great
• 1:04:44
  for me. It ate up your time, Yeah.
• 1:04:47
  Gave you a task. I'm going to conquer this.
• 1:04:51
  Just give Myra something to do. She can be the best at it.
• 1:04:54
  Just give her something and I didn't.
• 1:04:57
  And I and I ended up I get told you I lost 120 lbs.
• 1:05:00
  I ended up teaching, hit classes in power yoga.
• 1:05:02
  And you know we got it's 6:00 in the morning.
• 1:05:04
  We worked out from six to seven, and then we had an hour to be
• 1:05:07
  programmed from 8:00 to 4:00. So it was good.
• 1:05:10
  And then I walked an hour at night, did my homework the next
• 1:05:13
  day. So we were busy.
• 1:05:14
  It went fast. So Myra, at that time I can't, I
• 1:05:17
  can't remember from our conversation before that.
• 1:05:20
  Did the was the CARES act something that people started
• 1:05:22
  talking about, that there were possibilities that could could
• 1:05:26
  occur for people getting out? There, there was talk about
• 1:05:33
  everything. There was the first step.
• 1:05:34
  Act, cares. Act.
• 1:05:37
  There was so much talk and so little knowledge and one person
• 1:05:40
  would say one thing and then try to keep it private and then
• 1:05:42
  someone else would find out. And like the the anxiety around
• 1:05:47
  that, there is, there are no words to describe it.
• 1:05:51
  Like because you didn't, you didn't know.
• 1:05:55
  You had no way to find out. There was no access to real
• 1:05:58
  information. And of course the CE OS aren't
• 1:06:01
  going to tell. Like you don't know.
• 1:06:03
  And my lawyers abandoned me as soon as I got sentenced.
• 1:06:05
  Like they wouldn't even answer my phone calls.
• 1:06:09
  So yeah, that was extremely anxiety ridden because you're
• 1:06:13
  like, I should be able to get out on cares Act and we filed
• 1:06:16
  all of these motions and they were all denied.
• 1:06:20
  And then the first step ACT came out and how many points do you
• 1:06:23
  have and how much time and and everyone's like one person will
• 1:06:27
  get called to the office and you'd be like, did you find out
• 1:06:29
  your FSA? Did you not?
• 1:06:30
  Are you getting out? Are you?
• 1:06:31
  And then there are immediate release days and people thought
• 1:06:35
  they should get out and other people are just like, pack your
• 1:06:37
  stuff, go. I can't imagine that that that's
• 1:06:40
  all that unknown and that word. It was the inks.
• 1:06:44
  The inks. That's the only word.
• 1:06:46
  It was constant daily. When you started getting close
• 1:06:51
  to knowing that you were getting close to the door, to getting
• 1:06:54
  out, what, what were your thoughts thinking?
• 1:06:58
  I'm going to leave here. So funny, I thought I could
• 1:07:04
  conquer the world of. Course you did, Myra.
• 1:07:07
  I did my time. I did my time.
• 1:07:13
  I really, I've all been. I actually talked about things
• 1:07:16
  in therapy and our debt that I had never shared with another
• 1:07:19
  human being. It was a very good program.
• 1:07:23
  It was really good for me and I felt like that as honest as you
• 1:07:26
  can. I felt like I finally got there.
• 1:07:29
  I got to the root cause and and I was ready to conquer the
• 1:07:33
  world. And then I got out and it was
• 1:07:38
  really hard. I have found reentry to be the
• 1:07:42
  hardest thing. And I'm trying to trying to tell
• 1:07:48
  myself it's just a process like an education.
• 1:07:51
  So in medical school, you know, you do four years of undergrad
• 1:07:55
  and then you go to medical school.
• 1:07:56
  You know, you're a senior in undergrad, you're the top of the
• 1:07:59
  world. And then you go to medical
• 1:08:00
  school and you're at the bottom. And then you spend 2 years
• 1:08:04
  learning and that you're top of the game and then you go into
• 1:08:07
  rotations and you're at the bottom.
• 1:08:09
  Then you do 2 years of rotation and you graduate.
• 1:08:11
  You're at the top of your world. You're starting residency back
• 1:08:14
  at the bottom, and then you build yourself up again.
• 1:08:16
  So, you know, I'm used to that roller coaster.
• 1:08:19
  And I'm trying to tell myself right now that, you know, I was
• 1:08:22
  top of my world bottom again when I got sentenced.
• 1:08:26
  I made it through NBC, which really proud of myself for Then
• 1:08:30
  you go to a different prison and you know what it's like in a new
• 1:08:32
  prison. You're at the bottom again.
• 1:08:34
  So the bottom again, you know. And then you get into the Arnett
• 1:08:37
  program. And so you're kind of on the top
• 1:08:39
  again. And then you start to have a
• 1:08:42
  little confidence and your your shame is diminishing yourself.
• 1:08:46
  Worth is increasing. You feel like you've paid back
• 1:08:48
  your debt to society. You you're mending things with
• 1:08:51
  your family, you know things are good.
• 1:08:54
  And then re entry. So what do you think's been the
• 1:08:57
  hardest? Like re entry 'cause it's
• 1:08:59
  interesting how people, how it affects people.
• 1:09:07
  I'm not sure I can pick one thing.
• 1:09:11
  Not being able to utilize my skill set is extremely
• 1:09:19
  frustrating. I think it's just such a waste
• 1:09:22
  of skill and education and and this isn't arrogance.
• 1:09:27
  I was an incredible teacher. I was so passionate.
• 1:09:30
  I loved my kids. I was an incredible physician.
• 1:09:36
  I worked so hard and cared so deeply and I can't use those
• 1:09:42
  gifts anymore. And I realized that a lot of the
• 1:09:45
  things that got me there I can still use, but I haven't found
• 1:09:48
  that yet. I did get my coaching
• 1:09:50
  certification and a lot of people think I'd be an amazing
• 1:09:53
  like we. Talked about that.
• 1:09:54
  Well, this would be awesome. And I I think, you know somebody
• 1:09:56
  like you should be allowed to teach regardless of what it is.
• 1:10:01
  I I understand that. I'm just saying there shouldn't
• 1:10:03
  be a barrier to that because you have so much to offer.
• 1:10:07
  But I do think the life coaching thing, being someone who has
• 1:10:12
  experienced what you've experienced, accomplished what
• 1:10:14
  you've accomplished and have that empathy factor of
• 1:10:17
  understanding where somebody is could be so impactful for
• 1:10:23
  someone. Because you know the the the
• 1:10:26
  reason I was I was so drawn to your story and you Myra is that
• 1:10:31
  you have so much life and it it is a process.
• 1:10:38
  And I think the thing about the re entry thing is is that when
• 1:10:44
  you when you go through this nightmare you think being
• 1:10:47
  released it's it's over and it's not it's it's it's another layer
• 1:10:54
  of how you live the rest of your life because you're always
• 1:10:58
  branded as the ex felon. You're a justice impacted person
• 1:11:03
  which is what they say now but it's something that it becomes
• 1:11:07
  part of you that that's something now that you carry.
• 1:11:11
  But one thing I know about you is, is you'll figure that out
• 1:11:15
  because you figured out all the other steps that you've done all
• 1:11:19
  your life. So you're right.
• 1:11:22
  You do go from freshman to senior, freshman to senior,
• 1:11:25
  freshman to senior, and it's a crazy, crazy thing.
• 1:11:32
  But I love the idea of you coaching because in effect,
• 1:11:37
  that's really what a good teacher is, right?
• 1:11:39
  The teacher ISM. Yeah.
• 1:11:42
  You're the doctor? Absolutely.
• 1:11:44
  You're teaching people how to be their best version of
• 1:11:47
  themselves. And I and the other thing I love
• 1:11:48
  too, Myra, is that you went through all this and you you
• 1:11:52
  threw all that out there and your people said, I just want to
• 1:11:56
  help. I want to help, I want to help.
• 1:11:58
  Myra, we knew we needed to help you.
• 1:11:59
  We didn't know how to help you. And now now that so you have all
• 1:12:02
  that and I can only see things that are going to be good things
• 1:12:07
  for you to be able to step up because you are that type of
• 1:12:09
  person. You do.
• 1:12:09
  You don't. The one thing about this is, is
• 1:12:11
  it. Unless you let it break you and
• 1:12:13
  you become a victim and get up in a fetal position, as long as
• 1:12:18
  you continue to be you, you will conquer, figure out and overcome
• 1:12:22
  because you're just wired that way.
• 1:12:25
  It's in your DNA, which is a it's it's a good thing.
• 1:12:29
  It's a good thing. That's a those are very kind
• 1:12:32
  words. I'm I'm just starting to figure
• 1:12:34
  out why I'm struggling. I think previously I was very
• 1:12:39
  externally motivated. I wanted to make other people
• 1:12:42
  happy. I wanted to prove myself, my
• 1:12:45
  worth and that was all externally driven now and my
• 1:12:53
  jobs were very well defined. You have to do AB and C you have
• 1:12:57
  to do AB and C to B. Very good at those things.
• 1:13:00
  I was actually very good in prison because tell me what to
• 1:13:03
  do and I'll do it. You know, I got frustrated in
• 1:13:05
  prison when? They I got these down on.
• 1:13:06
  Me. You tell me what they are and
• 1:13:08
  stick to it. I've got these down.
• 1:13:10
  I'm good at these. I saw something the other day
• 1:13:19
  that was on, I think it was on Twitter Will X now and it was a
• 1:13:23
  guy that was going around and he was interviewing people that
• 1:13:26
  were 75 to 95 years old and he was talking about things that
• 1:13:32
  were important to them. Now what they would say to
• 1:13:34
  themselves as a younger, you know, very interesting
• 1:13:39
  questions. But the the answers that they
• 1:13:42
  got back, the number one thing that they continued to say, all
• 1:13:45
  of them, the 95 year old, the 75 year old, they they they ran so
• 1:13:51
  fast and so furious towards material things and money.
• 1:13:55
  And as they're older, they know you have to have some to
• 1:13:59
  survive. But it's relationships, it's
• 1:14:02
  social, it's it's doing things and being around things that
• 1:14:07
  make you happy. And I was thinking, you know,
• 1:14:09
  that's because they're getting towards the end and they know
• 1:14:12
  what's important. And it was so interesting that I
• 1:14:16
  think he interviewed 8 people all different ages from 7595,
• 1:14:20
  but all of them put out Number one is they felt like they
• 1:14:22
  wasted a good amount of their time chasing things that they
• 1:14:26
  don't think are important anymore, mostly money.
• 1:14:30
  And I think that's interesting because people at the end of
• 1:14:33
  their life do grab on to the things that are the most
• 1:14:35
  important. They talked about relationships,
• 1:14:37
  family, love and passions. And it was didn't matter what
• 1:14:42
  the age they were. But didn't I guess I can only
• 1:14:46
  speak for myself, but I feel like prison gives you that gift
• 1:14:49
  early because you don't have anything.
• 1:14:52
  It's gone. I lost everything I I lost my
• 1:14:55
  career. I lost my house.
• 1:14:57
  I lost my vacation. Home, I always say you don't
• 1:14:58
  have to worry about that anymore.
• 1:14:59
  I don't think you don't have to worry.
• 1:15:02
  You don't have to worry about losing that.
• 1:15:04
  Take that stress level off. Things are.
• 1:15:09
  Just gone. They're just gone.
• 1:15:10
  We're not that anymore. No stress.
• 1:15:14
  I'm a locker. That's one four feet.
• 1:15:16
  That's right. And a locker and a chair.
• 1:15:19
  It's. Like how much?
• 1:15:24
  Yeah, it is. Like, I find that, you know,
• 1:15:29
  we'll go shopping and, you know, I ended up moving back in with
• 1:15:32
  my ex-husband, who is my absolute best friend and I'm
• 1:15:34
  number one cheerleader in the world.
• 1:15:37
  And, you know, he'll go shopping.
• 1:15:38
  He's like, do you need anything? I'm like, no, he's like, well,
• 1:15:41
  don't you want anything? And I'm like, really, you know,
• 1:15:45
  gone are the, you know, I want this.
• 1:15:47
  I need not. I need this for that house.
• 1:15:50
  I need to buy this. No, no.
• 1:15:54
  So I I think it helps you to realize it is the people and for
• 1:15:58
  me the animals, the earth like those, you know, relationships,
• 1:16:04
  connectedness, those are the things that got.
• 1:16:07
  That's what you do. Those are the things that really
• 1:16:08
  I get. I I so agree with that early on.
• 1:16:13
  Early We didn't have to be towards the end of our life to
• 1:16:15
  do it. We got that I'm.
• 1:16:17
  Right, with you 100%. You know, it's so funny when you
• 1:16:21
  talked about labels earlier that, you know, I was a doctor
• 1:16:23
  and now I'm a felon, and society labels those things as good or
• 1:16:29
  bad. Like being a doctor is good,
• 1:16:31
  being a felon is bad. Interestingly, being a
• 1:16:34
  physician, there was a lot of wonderful things about it, but
• 1:16:37
  it was really bad for me. You know, I never felt good
• 1:16:39
  enough. I had a lot of animosity towards
• 1:16:43
  the industry because of all of my injuries.
• 1:16:46
  And ultimately, it's what gave me the access to to the drugs
• 1:16:51
  and me up in prison. It wasn't good for me.
• 1:16:53
  That's not good. That's not good.
• 1:16:55
  On the other hand, got me honest.
• 1:16:59
  He got me humbled. He got me to realize what's
• 1:17:01
  really important in life. So, like those labels are
• 1:17:04
  societal labels. And when I can realize that, I
• 1:17:08
  don't have to buy into that. No one.
• 1:17:10
  Oh, you've been set free. I mean, I I think, you know it's
• 1:17:13
  being set free from your mind is a is a big deal, 'cause I think
• 1:17:16
  everybody has prisons in their own mind that they've built up.
• 1:17:19
  You know, whether it be a bad job, bad childhood bad divorce
• 1:17:22
  bad whatever bad health, whatever those things are being
• 1:17:27
  able to breakthrough that is, is is the the real freedom.
• 1:17:30
  And that's what you're talking about Myra and?
• 1:17:34
  Yeah, that saying, that freedom that prison sets you free is so
• 1:17:37
  true. But I didn't understand that
• 1:17:39
  until I was there. I realized how judgmental and
• 1:17:42
  how closed minded and what a negative like perception I had
• 1:17:48
  of the world. So it was.
• 1:17:49
  Oh yeah, no, I mean, you talked about perception a lot.
• 1:17:53
  It it it changes, totally changes your perception because
• 1:17:56
  there's a lot of what what you find is there's a lot of good
• 1:17:59
  people that you meet in prison that had issues and they're
• 1:18:03
  working through them, but that doesn't make them a bad person.
• 1:18:06
  He just had issues and that's one of one of the biggest eye
• 1:18:10
  openers for me for sure. I got a question for you, Maya.
• 1:18:13
  I I'm you know your your story is so fascinating on on so many
• 1:18:19
  levels. What if What do you think is
• 1:18:23
  your biggest take away through all this that you've
• 1:18:26
  experienced? My biggest take away.
• 1:18:33
  It could be a couple of things. Yeah, I think it's hard to put
• 1:18:37
  it into one. I I think what I just said about
• 1:18:41
  not buying into societal perceptions that you get to
• 1:18:45
  that. I get to decide that, like, you
• 1:18:48
  know, being a doctor isn't like things are not necessarily good.
• 1:18:52
  For the box off, if I do that, that's good.
• 1:18:56
  No, good or bad doesn't really exist.
• 1:18:59
  It's just what are the consequences of that and how
• 1:19:02
  does it affect your life? That whole good or bad label
• 1:19:05
  just truly doesn't exist. And I think the most important
• 1:19:08
  part of that is for myself and my own self judgement like I'm
• 1:19:12
  not good or bad. You know, I I read something
• 1:19:16
  that about the moon and that if you look at half of the moon and
• 1:19:21
  you're like oh the bright half that that I'm good and the dark
• 1:19:25
  half is I'm bad. But both halves always exist.
• 1:19:29
  It's a whole and just to learn not to live in the extremes.
• 1:19:36
  The world is not dichotomous. It's not black or white.
• 1:19:39
  It's not good or bad. It's not right or wrong.
• 1:19:42
  It's messy. And the and the quote, good or
• 1:19:46
  bad, exist together. And what's one person perceives
• 1:19:50
  as bad if you turn it around, can be really beautiful.
• 1:19:53
  And what's really beautiful if you turn it around can be really
• 1:19:57
  ugly. So the beautiful thing is our
• 1:20:00
  perception and how we look at things and how we view the world
• 1:20:03
  and work. Myra, meet Myra Mabry, the life
• 1:20:08
  coach. Right there, Right there.
• 1:20:10
  That's Myra Mabry, the life coach.
• 1:20:13
  Are you doing the life coaching now?
• 1:20:17
  Because I hope that people can reach out to you by listening to
• 1:20:21
  this, because I think you have so many things that you could
• 1:20:25
  help with, with people of Myra, and I want you, I so want you to
• 1:20:29
  follow through with it, 'cause I think you can really have a huge
• 1:20:32
  impact on people's lives by making yourself available to
• 1:20:36
  people to to they need it. They need help.
• 1:20:39
  People need help. That means that means a great
• 1:20:43
  deal to me. And honestly, I I had said this
• 1:20:45
  to you. I I kind of haunted you down
• 1:20:48
  because I I needed a launching pad.
• 1:20:50
  And I want to do public speaking.
• 1:20:52
  I want to reach out to people. I want my story to help other
• 1:20:55
  people. It's what I've always been like
• 1:20:57
  you said, I've been a coach as a teacher.
• 1:20:58
  I've been a coach as a doctor. Yeah, and you.
• 1:21:00
  And to tell you what, you'd be an awesome speaker for people
• 1:21:03
  because you have exactly that. Whatever that thing is, that
• 1:21:07
  intangible thing that you want to listen to, Myra, that's
• 1:21:10
  that's what you that's what you have.
• 1:21:11
  And you got so many things that you can share.
• 1:21:13
  What you just said on your take away is unreal.
• 1:21:16
  I love it. Thank you, thank you and thank
• 1:21:20
  you for creating this space for people like me and I hope you
• 1:21:24
  realize the impact it has on us. Like this helps me rid shame.
• 1:21:32
  This gives me self worth and that's something I really need,
• 1:21:36
  especially re entry. So you are such a gift.
• 1:21:39
  Admirer You made my day that that makes me feel fantastic.
• 1:21:44
  Filled up for those out there you are.
• 1:21:50
  Obviously Myra needs to write a book so we'll we'll be looking
• 1:21:54
  for that and we'll be looking for a speaker and we'll be
• 1:21:56
  looking for her to be this coach.
• 1:21:59
  In the meantime, go out and get my book.
• 1:22:00
  Nightmare's success. It's on Amazon.
• 1:22:02
  Barnes and Noble. I I love it when you guys we've
• 1:22:05
  we've been taking off on the likes and and the social media
• 1:22:08
  and the comments stuff. It's really good because it
• 1:22:10
  creates more listeners. If you got time.
• 1:22:13
  I know it's a hassle. I know it.
• 1:22:16
  I know it, I know it. But it's such a big deal because
• 1:22:17
  it puts the show on stars. If you got time to go to Apple,
• 1:22:20
  leave a review. And if you want to know anything
• 1:22:23
  more about me, what's going on? sprintcassie.com I spell it
• 1:22:28
  wrong. It's Ty.
• 1:22:29
  It's not a DY. All my life growing up, I want
• 1:22:32
  to be Sean and David's brother. But it's just spelled wrong.
• 1:22:36
  I can't even say it's. I can't even say we're cousins.
• 1:22:38
  I can't even say we're cousins. I want to thank Homestead
• 1:22:42
  Financial. They they they have a great
• 1:22:44
  place for me to do my podcast here.
• 1:22:46
  If anybody's looking for their home mortgage needs.
• 1:22:48
  Greg Aftiev is your guy. Myra, thanks so much for being
• 1:22:53
  here. You're fantastic for all you out
• 1:22:57
  there. As I used to say when I was
• 1:22:58
  writing my emails back and forth from Leavenworth, stay strong.
• 1:23:01
  I'll do the same. Nightmare.
• 1:23:03
  Success in and out.