Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Dr. Sesha Joi Moon, Stacey Holman, Maya Tepler & Alphonso David Talk New Doc, 'Declarations: Black Americans and The Revolutionary War + more

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INTERVIEW: Dr. Sesha Joi Moon, Stacey Holman, Maya Tepler & Alphonso David Talk New Doc, 'Declarations: Black Americans and The Revolutionary War + more · The Breakfast Club

0:01
Speaker 1: Every day a week ago up, The Breakfast Club Finish.
0:08
Speaker 2: Yes, it's the world most dangerous morning show. The Breakfast
0:10
Speaker 2: Club dj NV just hilarious. Charlamagne, the God Envy is
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Speaker 2: not here, but Lauren Larossa is and we got some
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Speaker 2: special guests here. They have a new documentary, Declarations Black
0:18
Speaker 2: Americans in the Revolutionary War Session Joy Moon is here.
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Speaker 2: Good morning, Sesha, I'm sorry, Joy Moon. Director Stacey Holman
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Speaker 2: and producer Maya Tepler. Pronounce that right. It's crazy because
0:31
Speaker 2: I know your name.
0:32
Speaker 3: Crazy.
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Speaker 4: I know you, but but never calls me because he
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Speaker 4: cat me doctor doctor Moon. Never said my first name.
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Speaker 1: That is very true.
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Speaker 4: I appreciate that doctor, a real doctor.
0:43
Speaker 5: That's right.
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Speaker 3: I know.
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Speaker 6: That's right there. Dissertation.
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Speaker 4: Oh you want to know about it. It's on ProQuest
0:51
Speaker 4: available for reviews. Gender the Career Mobility Patterns of Black
0:58
Speaker 4: Women in Federal Services.
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Speaker 5: Herecative Service, may k doctor Moon.
1:04
Speaker 2: They have a documentary, Declarations Black Americans and the Revolutionary War.
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Speaker 2: It comes out on my birthday actually at ten pm
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Speaker 2: on PBS. Tell them what the film is about.
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Speaker 3: Well, this film is very special because we know this
1:16
Speaker 3: year is America's two fifty.
1:19
Speaker 5: However, we are looking at through.
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Speaker 3: The lens of enslaves when we meet them and eventually
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Speaker 3: freed black men and women who are exercising those tenets
1:27
Speaker 3: of equality, life, liberty in the pursuit of happiness. So
1:30
Speaker 3: we're following them starting in the seventeen hundreds up until
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Speaker 3: the end of the seventeen hundreds and how they gain
1:34
Speaker 3: their freedom.
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Speaker 7: No, but I've been thinking about the America's two fifty
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Speaker 7: because all of the cable news channels are like everybody's
1:41
Speaker 7: documentaries and the celebrations that are happening, And the other
1:44
Speaker 7: day I was thinking about it, like, I don't know
1:46
Speaker 7: why I don't feel attached to that, even though I'm here.
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Speaker 7: My ancestors, we deserve to feel like that, But I
1:52
Speaker 7: don't feel attached to that at all.
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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, and that's rightfully so, because when the
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Speaker 3: framers of the Declaration wrote it, they did not have
1:59
Speaker 3: us in mind. They were thinking about free and independent states,
2:02
Speaker 3: as one of our scholars talks about. I mean, there
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Speaker 3: was John Adams, you know, he was you know, Massachusetts,
2:08
Speaker 3: so he was interested in freedom for black people. But
2:12
Speaker 3: most of them it was about independent states. It was
2:15
Speaker 3: about seceding from the British and it was not about
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Speaker 3: what we you know, hold true to those tenets life,
2:23
Speaker 3: living in pursuit of happiness.
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Speaker 2: I'd be wondering, if these stories are so important to
2:27
Speaker 2: the finding of America, why did most of those most
2:29
Speaker 2: of us never learn about it in school.
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Speaker 8: Well, yeah, well it's something that when we had our
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Speaker 8: world premiere last weekend, everyone came out to us at
2:42
Speaker 8: the end, regardless of race, and was like, I had
2:45
Speaker 8: no idea about these stories.
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Speaker 1: You think about it.
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Speaker 8: We learned about the Revolutionary War like what three times,
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Speaker 8: like elementary school and middle school, high school, and every
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Speaker 8: time we basically learned the same thing. And I'm sure
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Speaker 8: we all came out of it with the same thing.
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Speaker 8: Like George Washington was president, we won British bad, Americans good,
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Speaker 8: and we get none of the nuance. But really, these
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Speaker 8: foundational documents, you know, the enslaved people that were covering
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Speaker 8: and well eventually three people that were featuring in our film,
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Speaker 8: they embody those tenants more than George Washington could have
3:21
Speaker 8: ever imagined.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. My favorite characters from my hometown, his
3:26
Speaker 4: name is Abraham Payton skip with this is a black
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Speaker 4: man who is in the rooms with the founding generation
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Speaker 4: at the time he's hearing about concepts of life, liberty
3:35
Speaker 4: being oppressed. It's a very interesting juxtaposition of his life.
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Speaker 4: But when you talk about things we never learned about.
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Speaker 4: I mean, this is the first recorded Black Virginian with
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Speaker 4: a will. He excused the one in seventeen ninety nine,
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Speaker 4: and he wills to his descendants a home, parcels of land, gold,
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Speaker 4: silver horse. Buggy gives instructions to manument his descendants and
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Speaker 4: educate his granddaughterer. And it's just a narrative that you
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Speaker 4: don't hear about what it meant to be black and
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Speaker 4: find agency during the American Revolution. And what I find
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Speaker 4: is that while Abraham Payton skip With is a founded
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Speaker 4: father Jackson Ward, there Abraham Payton skip With send Jackson
4:12
Speaker 4: Wards all over this country just kind of waiting to
4:14
Speaker 4: be found. So my hope is that through this film
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Speaker 4: that it actually will inspire and activate people like you, Lauren,
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Speaker 4: to want to be able to connect to our stories
4:23
Speaker 4: because we help found this joint. Melia, what was the
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Speaker 4: most what was one of the most jarring things that
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Speaker 4: either one of you found out while bringing this documentary together. Oh?
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Speaker 3: Well, there is Harry Washington who I so he's I mean,
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Speaker 3: I love all my characters with Harry, I really love.
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Speaker 3: He was purchased in the State Seale by George Washington.
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Speaker 3: He escaped, and George Washington is documented in his journal
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Speaker 3: that Harry ran away and he was trying to get
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Speaker 3: Harry back.
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Speaker 5: Harry is caught, Harry.
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Speaker 3: Runs away again, joins the British army fights.
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Speaker 5: Obviously the British lose. He heads to New York.
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Speaker 3: Washington is still looking for all his enslaved property, including Harry.
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Speaker 3: At this time, he is married, escapes to Nova Scotia.
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Speaker 3: It's not really you know, Betta roses for black folks there.
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Speaker 3: He then returns to Africa, which is now Sirira Leone
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Speaker 3: because the British had established a place there for a
5:20
Speaker 3: colony there. And unfortunately we lose track of him.
5:24
Speaker 5: But here's a man.
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Speaker 3: Who understood exactly what freedom was, as did George Washington.
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Speaker 3: And no, but there's so little document about him, and
5:34
Speaker 3: what we have.
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Speaker 5: Is just is gold.
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Speaker 2: I wonder how many people realize the Declaration of Independence
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Speaker 2: was meant to free us from the British, because nowadays
5:45
Speaker 2: it feels like it's more relevant to freeing us from
5:47
Speaker 2: our own governments, Like what do you hope the documentary
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Speaker 2: motivates people to do and feel.
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Speaker 3: I want people just to know that, first of all,
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Speaker 3: black folks were active, they had agency in the seventeen hundreds.
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Speaker 3: I want them to understand and know that this document.
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Speaker 5: Still holds true at least those parts of it. Is
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Speaker 5: very contentious as you.
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Speaker 3: Read the louder part of it, but we are all
6:14
Speaker 3: entitled to equality. We all are entitled to life, liberty.
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Speaker 5: And happiness.
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Speaker 3: We all are pursuing that, and we can do that
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Speaker 3: without defaming or disrespecting, or even holding others back to
6:25
Speaker 3: attain those So I want people to be I hope
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Speaker 3: people to be educated, help them to be curious. I
6:31
Speaker 3: hope them to be excited and understand that this is
6:33
Speaker 3: our country. When I say are I mean black people,
6:36
Speaker 3: I mean all people of color.
6:38
Speaker 1: And can I add one thing?
6:40
Speaker 4: I also hope that people walk away understanding the importance
6:43
Speaker 4: of public media. This is a local story that is
6:46
Speaker 4: now being engaged at a national level. PBS has been
6:51
Speaker 4: a key partner in this work alongside with VPM, who
6:54
Speaker 4: is the production company behind this. And I feel as
6:58
Speaker 4: though at a time, you know we're telling a black
7:01
Speaker 4: story about four black forgotten fore mothers and forefathers, and
7:05
Speaker 4: they are airing this the week aforeth of July. That
7:08
Speaker 4: was a committed choice to make. And so I think that,
7:11
Speaker 4: you know, at a time when public media is being defunded,
7:14
Speaker 4: the fact that PBS is still putting their full weight
7:16
Speaker 4: behind this film. I also hope that it inspires people
7:18
Speaker 4: to donate and to give because this is how our
7:20
Speaker 4: stories get.
7:21
Speaker 7: Told, so that everyday person who's going to watch this
7:23
Speaker 7: doc r and be educated. You just brought up public media.
7:26
Speaker 7: A lot of people I don't even know, even when
7:28
Speaker 7: they hear about the fight, if they understand what the
7:30
Speaker 7: difference is between like a PBS versus like other places
7:34
Speaker 7: that have like different rules around what they can do
7:37
Speaker 7: and how they put things out. Can you explain that
7:39
Speaker 7: for people?
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Speaker 4: Well, I will say, for one of the things that
7:42
Speaker 4: we were talking about today is that public media is
7:43
Speaker 4: about true telling, no censorship, and really fact based narratives
7:47
Speaker 4: and content creation. But I will say I think people
7:50
Speaker 4: now know what PBS is a little bit from the
7:52
Speaker 4: Mega Stayan situation, PBS became kind of popping out there.
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Speaker 7: They know what PBS is, But I don't know if
7:58
Speaker 7: until some of the things now people really understood why
8:01
Speaker 7: it was like so important for us to like it's
8:03
Speaker 7: almost like a foundation of like our freedom to a
8:06
Speaker 7: certain extent when it.
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Speaker 5: Comes to media.
8:08
Speaker 7: But I don't think people understood that until.
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Speaker 4: That's a good sound, like, oh, thank you, maybe gonna
8:13
Speaker 4: love that.
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Speaker 7: I mean at me working in media, and now that
8:17
Speaker 7: I'm older, I know, for me being younger and thinking
8:19
Speaker 7: of PBS, and now that I'm older, I even understand
8:21
Speaker 7: it a little bit differently now. So that's what I
8:23
Speaker 7: was kind of.
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Speaker 3: Getting PBS when you look at what it started, children's
8:29
Speaker 3: program exactly, I mean really, and you look at all
8:34
Speaker 3: these other offshoots of networks and shows. PBS was the
8:39
Speaker 3: beginning cooking show. It was the brand Sesame Street. I was, okay,
8:44
Speaker 3: mister Rogers an electrical.
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Speaker 4: Is what Miss Rachel is to the kids these days?
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Speaker 4: That was.
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Speaker 7: But there's such a revolutionary like like Sesame Street and
8:58
Speaker 7: then being aimed toward like under privileged children. And I
9:01
Speaker 7: like the story of it. Now I think people are
9:03
Speaker 7: starting to discover more, which I think is amazing.
9:05
Speaker 2: Connected.
9:05
Speaker 4: When you're talking about mister Rogers, I mean he helped
9:07
Speaker 4: to cross a color barrier one. National Television PBS has
9:11
Speaker 4: been a key partner in the work of social justice
9:14
Speaker 4: for a very long time. And even this film, it's
9:16
Speaker 4: part of America at two fifty and so we will
9:18
Speaker 4: be talking about historical, cultural, and children programming all throughout
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Speaker 4: the year. So this film is just one of those
9:24
Speaker 4: pieces to the puzzle.
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Speaker 2: Do you think that when y'all did this, doctor, y'all,
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Speaker 2: did you did you realize that some people see these
9:29
Speaker 2: documents are just different? Like to some like some folks, yeah,
9:32
Speaker 2: decoration depended me to get free from the bridage. But
9:35
Speaker 2: to us, like I said, it's like we're trying to
9:37
Speaker 2: be free from our own government. That a shock to
9:39
Speaker 2: you to realize that people see these docs different?
9:43
Speaker 8: It wasn't a shock. And I think like one thing
9:46
Speaker 8: that was interesting to learn is that black people and
9:51
Speaker 8: black movements have we're the first to use these words
9:56
Speaker 8: in sort of their purest and truest form, and you know,
9:59
Speaker 8: we cantinue to see that in every civil rights movement,
10:03
Speaker 8: in every rights movement throughout history. And I think, you know,
10:07
Speaker 8: if if I were to say, like what I want
10:08
Speaker 8: people to take away from that is like, let's keep
10:10
Speaker 8: using these words because it's the promise is still unfulfilled
10:13
Speaker 8: in so many ways. It wasn't the beginning and it
10:15
Speaker 8: is now. But like, let's let's keep going because these
10:18
Speaker 8: words do provide an incredible foundation if taken at face value.
10:23
Speaker 7: And with that, Band said, what does the the research
10:26
Speaker 7: in this documentary say about the resilience of black people?
10:31
Speaker 8: I mean, so there's one story Mumbaby, she's our lone
10:37
Speaker 8: star woman. She's a star woman, and she's incredible. She
10:43
Speaker 8: sued for her own freedom, and while she's suing for
10:45
Speaker 8: her own freedom, she is living in her enslaver's home.
10:51
Speaker 8: So it's like, talk about resilience, being able to live
10:56
Speaker 8: in your in your truth and in yourself and in
10:58
Speaker 8: your freedom and the roof of someone who's fighting you
11:01
Speaker 8: in court take it away from you.
11:04
Speaker 4: Damn black women.
11:06
Speaker 7: I was literally, dude, Walia, Black women. I can't wait
11:10
Speaker 7: to watch this with my mom and my grandmother.
11:11
Speaker 2: Oh please do.
11:12
Speaker 7: This is stuff they love to talk about because my
11:14
Speaker 7: grandma comes from the South and she always tells me
11:15
Speaker 7: about how like there's so much that she can't even
11:18
Speaker 7: show me when it comes to my own family because
11:19
Speaker 7: they didn't record certain things at a.
11:21
Speaker 4: Certain point well, I will say. The film premiere is
11:23
Speaker 4: on Monday, June twenty ninth year birthday, at ten pm
11:27
Speaker 4: e ST. We had our world premiere at mc NYC
11:30
Speaker 4: and your boy Doug Melville join DM ME with Doug Melville.
11:34
Speaker 4: iHeart Black Effect, you like my plug. But on Monday,
11:40
Speaker 4: we also have a film screening at the Virginia Museum
11:43
Speaker 4: of Fine Arts. But our festival run begins with this
11:47
Speaker 4: gentleman back here I'll find so David of the Global
11:49
Speaker 4: Black Economic Form, can you come and tell them a.
11:51
Speaker 2: Little I'm good, Yes, I'm good, Yes, sir.
11:55
Speaker 6: I run the Global Black Economic Form, which is an
11:58
Speaker 6: enterprise that focuses on economic justice for marginalized groups. And
12:02
Speaker 6: we are so proud to have this documentary premiere at
12:07
Speaker 6: the Global Black Economic Form, which is going to be
12:09
Speaker 6: at the Essence Festival of Culture. We have sixty thousand
12:13
Speaker 6: square feet of space within the convention center. They are
12:16
Speaker 6: opening up on Friday morning at eleven am. They're going
12:20
Speaker 6: to we're going to be showing snippets of the film
12:22
Speaker 6: and then they're going to talk about the film. Why
12:24
Speaker 6: is it important? I mean, we're at a moment where
12:26
Speaker 6: our history is being taken away from us or at
12:28
Speaker 6: least being suppressed. Our jobs are being taken away, our
12:32
Speaker 6: businesses are being threatened, access to healthcare is being denied.
12:36
Speaker 6: So this is a moment where we think is incredibly
12:38
Speaker 6: important to provide real information to our community because the
12:42
Speaker 6: information that they're being fed is not real. In many cases,
12:46
Speaker 6: right our history is being stripped out of schools. So
12:50
Speaker 6: this documentary comes at the perfect time to make sure
12:54
Speaker 6: that we are educating our community, providing them with the information,
12:58
Speaker 6: and mobilizing them a moment moment where you know, our
13:02
Speaker 6: voting rights are being suppressed as well.
13:05
Speaker 2: That's right, you know. I wanted to ask right after
13:07
Speaker 2: making this doc what similarities did you see between Black
13:10
Speaker 2: Americans of seventeen seventy six and black Americans.
13:12
Speaker 1: In Oh, you're your Oprah bag right now?
13:16
Speaker 3: That Yeah, we're still fighting. We're still fighting. We are
13:25
Speaker 3: still looking fighting for our happiness, We're still fighting for equality,
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Speaker 3: We're still pursuing for all of those things that hasn't stopped.
13:37
Speaker 2: What about you, doctor mom.
13:39
Speaker 4: I know we talked about resilience, but I think for me,
13:41
Speaker 4: resourcefulness like skip With is probably the most important character
13:45
Speaker 4: for me because he's just from my hometown. But like
13:48
Speaker 4: it's this document. It's called Variety in the Vicissitudes of Life,
13:51
Speaker 4: and the daughter of his enslaver wrote it, and she's
13:55
Speaker 4: it's a scene where she is watching her parents speak
13:57
Speaker 4: and skip With is in the room, and the first
13:59
Speaker 4: line says, Shirley Abram knows to bring me my tea.
14:02
Speaker 4: The parents start talking about what they're actually describing in
14:05
Speaker 4: seventeen seventy five as the Boston Tea Party. They don't
14:07
Speaker 4: understand that's what they're actually talking about. They're talking about
14:10
Speaker 4: being oppressed by the Queen Mother. And this is their
14:13
Speaker 4: favorite line that I say in the film. You know,
14:16
Speaker 4: she sees her parents as the main character because of
14:19
Speaker 4: the white gays. I saw skip With as the main
14:21
Speaker 4: character because he's hearing about life, liberty, of revolutionary war
14:27
Speaker 4: on the front, and while he's pouring their tea, he's
14:29
Speaker 4: getting the tea, and then he's taking that information to
14:33
Speaker 4: develop a business acumen, a political savvy that then he
14:36
Speaker 4: knows to go to the Virginia Speaker of the House
14:38
Speaker 4: to then file for his legislative petition for freedom. He's
14:41
Speaker 4: using the information to even know how to put together
14:43
Speaker 4: Last Will and Testament. And so I think It's kind
14:45
Speaker 4: of like that's the same predicament that we find ourselves
14:47
Speaker 4: in right now. We're resilient, but we're also very resourceful
14:51
Speaker 4: in how we leverage our agency.
14:52
Speaker 7: I have a question following that, sorry, following that. Right, So,
14:56
Speaker 7: when doing his documentary and you see stories like that,
14:59
Speaker 7: and you talk about how powerful history is when we
15:02
Speaker 7: have people like well, I'll take jay Z for instance. Right,
15:05
Speaker 7: jay Z works with the NFL or works with whatever organization.
15:10
Speaker 7: And there are some people that will say, okay, well,
15:12
Speaker 7: you have to have someone that is learning certain things,
15:14
Speaker 7: that is speaking up against certain things, that is in
15:16
Speaker 7: the room or in the house to do certain things right.
15:19
Speaker 7: But then you have people that are really upset that
15:21
Speaker 7: he does that. But obviously there's some point of it
15:23
Speaker 7: where you do learn things that you can then take
15:25
Speaker 7: back to your people or just help for yourself so
15:27
Speaker 7: that other people can then do it. How do you
15:29
Speaker 7: look at that and compare to what we see now
15:32
Speaker 7: with people like jay Z or whoever is crossing the
15:34
Speaker 7: line to better educate themselves to fight for other people.
15:37
Speaker 4: What's funny when I came in here with the cupcakes
15:39
Speaker 4: I send me and Charlotte may probably argue every week
15:41
Speaker 4: because we do, or at least I'm arguing with him.
15:43
Speaker 2: He's not.
15:44
Speaker 4: I don't know how it's working out, but most of
15:48
Speaker 4: our conversations, I always say it's a both, and you know,
15:51
Speaker 4: like I'm doing this documentary and I guess you could
15:53
Speaker 4: say I'm a social justice advocate in certain ways, but
15:56
Speaker 4: it's a both. And my day job is I'm a
15:58
Speaker 4: cabinet secretary for a governor, learning the roles and the
16:02
Speaker 4: rules so that we know how to navigate them so
16:04
Speaker 4: that we can actually actually achieve a more perfect union.
16:09
Speaker 4: And so I don't think that it's one or the other.
16:12
Speaker 4: I think I think that that's the approach in my
16:14
Speaker 4: practice on how I do this work, and I think
16:17
Speaker 4: that's how the film has gone about it. And even
16:19
Speaker 4: in this moment right now, I mean, we are all
16:22
Speaker 4: accomplished women, but we're going to essence, we're at breakfast club.
16:25
Speaker 4: We're trying to make history cool. You have to you
16:27
Speaker 4: kind of have to live at that intersection right now
16:29
Speaker 4: to be able to get the best of both worlds,
16:31
Speaker 4: to be able to achieve liberty at the end of
16:32
Speaker 4: the day.
16:33
Speaker 2: I would like to hear everybody's response, actually.
16:40
Speaker 1: Go ahead, go ahead, I.
16:55
Speaker 5: Got some accident.
16:56
Speaker 7: How do you guys feel about people that will push
16:58
Speaker 7: back against people being at the intersection of what they
17:01
Speaker 7: think is the oppressor or the oppressing oppressing things like
17:06
Speaker 7: the character that she's talking about from your documentary, he's
17:09
Speaker 7: in this house with his oppressor, but he's there and
17:12
Speaker 7: he's learning, and then he is creating his own will.
17:14
Speaker 7: He's taking it back to his people. He's educating. And
17:17
Speaker 7: I thought of jay Z because I remember when he
17:18
Speaker 7: did the deal with the NFL. People were like, you're
17:20
Speaker 7: a sellout. We're supposed to be boycotting. But it's like
17:23
Speaker 7: you need someone there to kind of like know what's
17:26
Speaker 7: going on but also push So I want to know
17:28
Speaker 7: how you guys feel about it after doing this documentary
17:30
Speaker 7: in hearing that story.
17:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta be some We need some people to
17:35
Speaker 2: be there.
17:36
Speaker 3: I think you have to be in the room to
17:38
Speaker 3: know the playbook, right, you need to know the blueprint,
17:41
Speaker 3: and we need someone in the rooms. So I think
17:44
Speaker 3: as people are maybe mad about it, at the same time,
17:48
Speaker 3: look who's performing at the halftime show, Kendrick Lamar. Now
17:54
Speaker 3: if he were not part of it, would Kendrick Lamar
17:56
Speaker 3: be there? You know with all the controversia of back Bunny,
18:00
Speaker 3: would he be there.
18:01
Speaker 5: So I think we can get so narrow in our vision.
18:06
Speaker 3: We have to look and see the full view of
18:10
Speaker 3: things and see that this is going to pay off
18:13
Speaker 3: in the long run.
18:17
Speaker 8: And I guess I'm a person who benefits from people
18:19
Speaker 8: who do that, Like I learn from those situations and
18:22
Speaker 8: I think, like I feel very lucky to have the
18:26
Speaker 8: opportunity to learn. And I think that's what's exciting about
18:29
Speaker 8: this film is it gives people who might not otherwise
18:34
Speaker 8: know and might not even be interested, the opportunity to learn.
18:38
Speaker 8: And I mean, I say learn and it sound like
18:41
Speaker 8: a kindergarten teacher.
18:42
Speaker 1: But it's like, it's cool. It's cool history history can
18:45
Speaker 1: be cool.
18:46
Speaker 8: Like I was telling these ladies earlier, I was like,
18:49
Speaker 8: I'm just a dorky documentary filmmaker. I can't believe I
18:51
Speaker 8: get to come here and talk about it. But that's
18:54
Speaker 8: but that's because of what you're talking about about people
18:56
Speaker 8: who open the door, about people who allow, who open
19:00
Speaker 8: in the space and let people in with embrace.
19:04
Speaker 6: I'll say that in our history, we have seen this
19:07
Speaker 6: movie over and over again. Whether you're talking about Martin
19:11
Speaker 6: Luther King and Malcolm X or you're talking about Fanny
19:13
Speaker 6: lou Hammer and someone else all had different approaches to
19:16
Speaker 6: how we think about liberation and how we think about
19:18
Speaker 6: civil rights. And I know that with a lot of
19:22
Speaker 6: information today, it's very easy for us to reach judgment
19:26
Speaker 6: on how people are approaching their own liberation. But I
19:30
Speaker 6: think it's probably behooves us to really take a step
19:33
Speaker 6: back and think about the variety of different ways we
19:36
Speaker 6: can actually get to that promised land. And in some
19:38
Speaker 6: ways my approach may be different than yours, but if
19:41
Speaker 6: we're all growing in the same direction, we will ultimately
19:44
Speaker 6: get there. And I think if we focus on that
19:47
Speaker 6: ultimate goal, we might actually reach it at some point.
19:50
Speaker 4: Yeah, a little bit more grace. What are you doing
19:52
Speaker 4: once you are in the room? I think is really
19:54
Speaker 4: what it's all about.
19:55
Speaker 7: Never enough for the people if you leave it up
19:57
Speaker 7: to the people.
19:59
Speaker 2: Love the beginning at a doctor. Uh, it's a piece
20:02
Speaker 2: of the Declaration of Independence. But you have all of these
20:04
Speaker 2: different people with different races and creed reading that. Why
20:07
Speaker 2: was that? Why was that important to do?
20:11
Speaker 3: Just looking at this document, It's supposed to be for everybody,
20:13
Speaker 3: and I wanted every wanted to hear everybody's voice and
20:18
Speaker 3: in that and to let everyone know that this is
20:22
Speaker 3: America's document. It's not just white person's document, not just
20:26
Speaker 3: a black person's document or Hispanic or it's everyone's. And
20:29
Speaker 3: I think just the chorus of voices just this I envisioned.
20:34
Speaker 3: It just sounded beautiful in my head and I'm so
20:36
Speaker 3: glad it paid off when we started filming it.
20:38
Speaker 4: And can I just say, Stacy has worked with Stanley Nelson,
20:42
Speaker 4: you work with doctor Gates. This is her first feature
20:45
Speaker 4: film that she is the director, and I think she
20:47
Speaker 4: did such a congratulations and so congratulations Stacy's amazing.
20:54
Speaker 2: It is just doc really about the revolutionary war? Is
20:57
Speaker 2: it about black people constantly fighting to make America his
21:00
Speaker 2: own promise?
21:01
Speaker 1: It's both and every every.
21:07
Speaker 3: Both and and if I can just I don't want
21:10
Speaker 3: to add one thing. I'll let Maya speak to this
21:13
Speaker 3: and this speaks to b PM and p BS. We
21:16
Speaker 3: actually used a I in this film, and it's very
21:18
Speaker 3: controversial for many reasons and the support we got, but
21:23
Speaker 3: the way we used it, we wanted to use it
21:25
Speaker 3: in the creative and ethical, creative, creative, ethically way, and
21:31
Speaker 3: it was just another way to start a conversation. So
21:34
Speaker 3: you ask what we want the film to do. We
21:35
Speaker 3: want to talk about the conversation of how we depict ourselves,
21:38
Speaker 3: how we are seen during this time period. Because if
21:41
Speaker 3: we are seen, we're seen serving the tea, we're seen
21:45
Speaker 3: in picking cotton, you know, carrying wheat.
21:49
Speaker 5: Uh, So we're excited for for that part as well,
21:52
Speaker 5: carrying wheat.
21:57
Speaker 8: I mean, I think something that's super exciting that we're
21:59
Speaker 8: doing in this film is so the way that we're
22:02
Speaker 8: using AI animation is we have a fine artist who's
22:05
Speaker 8: also our AI animator, who's also a historical research Hey Hudson,
22:10
Speaker 8: Hey Hudson Gampbell, amazing guy, just had a baby.
22:12
Speaker 5: We're so happy for him.
22:15
Speaker 1: And he did these.
22:17
Speaker 8: Portraits of of our four main subjects and he used
22:21
Speaker 8: that to generate the AI animation. So all of it
22:25
Speaker 8: is in his style, all of it is using his art,
22:29
Speaker 8: and throughout the film something you see is him painting
22:33
Speaker 8: these portraits. And to me, there's something really beautiful about
22:36
Speaker 8: how we're rewriting the history that we know with his hand.
22:43
Speaker 2: And that's that's very Why did y'all feel AI wasn't
22:46
Speaker 2: necessary to tell a more complete story?
22:49
Speaker 5: Well, I'm not respect to recreations.
22:52
Speaker 3: I'm not a big recreation fan, and you know, there's obviously.
22:56
Speaker 5: Some incredible animators.
22:58
Speaker 3: However, we have the opportunity to work with a fine
23:00
Speaker 3: artist and we wanted to continue to use his style
23:03
Speaker 3: throughout and and also too, it helped with the budget.
23:09
Speaker 3: You know, viole transparency, you know, I think PS Yes,
23:12
Speaker 3: you know, so it was a tool that we used
23:16
Speaker 3: creatively but also helped us with our budget.
23:19
Speaker 2: I think it makes sense, especially when you're dealing with
23:22
Speaker 2: historical figures are like fictional characters. The only problem I
23:26
Speaker 2: had with the eyes was actual real things going on now. Yeah,
23:31
Speaker 2: but for the history, it's it's like I need that
23:33
Speaker 2: visual kind of to connect the dots.
23:34
Speaker 4: Yes, PBS this first time doing it, Yeah, I mean
23:37
Speaker 4: to this degree.
23:38
Speaker 3: They did one other parject, but this is the first
23:40
Speaker 3: one and they have a whole I mean, to pps's credit,
23:43
Speaker 3: they we went through the ring, were the ring, but
23:46
Speaker 3: they have a whole document that explains the process. We
23:49
Speaker 3: had historians, Steven Seals, who's also interpreter, historical interpreter, look
23:54
Speaker 3: at all of the visuals to make sure that everything
23:58
Speaker 3: was historically accurate.
24:00
Speaker 2: What do we oh, how do you balance historical accuracy
24:02
Speaker 2: with the need to make history feel alive? I guess
24:05
Speaker 2: for the new audiences.
24:07
Speaker 8: Well, I think one thing important that we're dealing with
24:09
Speaker 8: with this particular subject matter is the materials don't exist.
24:15
Speaker 8: There aren't the portraits, there aren't the paintings. We had
24:17
Speaker 8: to come up with some way to do it, whether
24:19
Speaker 8: it be animation or AI animation or recreations, and so,
24:24
Speaker 8: you know, I think and we had a lot of
24:28
Speaker 8: discussions in the beginning because the depictions of black people
24:31
Speaker 8: at the time were offensive, like how do we how
24:34
Speaker 8: do we breathe life into this in a way that
24:36
Speaker 8: feels honest but also beautiful an agency, So you know,
24:44
Speaker 8: I think we I think we did do that. And
24:45
Speaker 8: I think in terms of balancing history with a reimagining
24:49
Speaker 8: is you have to do PBS.
24:53
Speaker 5: This bar for research is high, very high. It's very high.
25:00
Speaker 8: And you know, we've both worked for many different networks
25:02
Speaker 8: and I can say it drove me crazy.
25:05
Speaker 1: But the rigor with.
25:06
Speaker 8: Which we had to, you know, show our historical foundation
25:11
Speaker 8: for everything we did, it's it's unparalleled.
25:14
Speaker 4: And can I say one thing about that. You know,
25:15
Speaker 4: me and my sister are subjects in the film, And
25:17
Speaker 4: when I saw the AI creation of skip With I
25:20
Speaker 4: was boohooing in the theater because, you know, we talked
25:25
Speaker 4: about his will. But like, one of my favorite parts
25:26
Speaker 4: of his will is that he told one of his sons,
25:28
Speaker 4: take ten of my suits, and.
25:29
Speaker 1: I was like, hold on ten of your suit.
25:31
Speaker 4: It's seventeen ninety nine, and they had there's an image
25:36
Speaker 4: of him standing in front of his home and he
25:39
Speaker 4: just looks like he has pride, like he has freedom,
25:45
Speaker 4: and that he has his own agency. And I appreciate
25:49
Speaker 4: seeing that on film because I didn't have to imagine it.
25:51
Speaker 4: They gave me something to be able to act, you know,
25:54
Speaker 4: to react to. But I will say one thing about
25:56
Speaker 4: skip With story that is so disheartening. And the film
25:59
Speaker 4: goes through this. You know, this man had this will,
26:02
Speaker 4: He had very explicit instructions for his family. Home, stays
26:06
Speaker 4: in the family's custody for over one hundred years, passed
26:08
Speaker 4: his hands to another family, and then because of Interstate
26:11
Speaker 4: ninety five, the home is removed from the community because
26:15
Speaker 4: the highway goes right through the nation's first historically registered
26:18
Speaker 4: Black Roman neighborhood, and they move the home to a
26:21
Speaker 4: former tobacco plantation belonging to the Confederate Army, and so
26:25
Speaker 4: part of the film is also recreating and re establishing
26:29
Speaker 4: that historic site. And so the AI. What I love
26:32
Speaker 4: that Stacy and Maya did was it's so many mediums
26:35
Speaker 4: within the film. You have research, you have primary artifacts,
26:38
Speaker 4: you have AI, you have a live accounting of a
26:41
Speaker 4: research project for reparations and so I think, and you
26:46
Speaker 4: have interviews. I mean, you just have so so many
26:49
Speaker 4: mediums of content so that we hope that all audiences
26:53
Speaker 4: can kind of walk away and feel like it's an
26:54
Speaker 4: enjoyable viewing experience. I know, I did, I hope So, yeah,
26:58
Speaker 4: you did. Great?
26:59
Speaker 2: Are you more hopeful less hopeful about America's ability to
27:02
Speaker 2: become what he claimed to be in seventeen seventy six
27:05
Speaker 2: after doing this doc All of this time.
27:10
Speaker 3: I have done several historical documentaries, and I think what
27:15
Speaker 3: we're going through now is nothing new. We can look
27:20
Speaker 3: through the history, look at them the deer, look at
27:21
Speaker 3: what happened after reconstruction. I'm hopeful because of the skip withs.
27:27
Speaker 3: I'm hopeful because of the mum Bets. I'm hopeful because
27:29
Speaker 3: of Harry.
27:30
Speaker 5: Even even though Harry left the country. And there's some
27:33
Speaker 5: folks that know who have left the country.
27:35
Speaker 3: And I'm hoping lib liberates liberation or is back home
27:39
Speaker 3: or is you know, the aspora. And I'm hopeful because
27:42
Speaker 3: of James, they were in the pursuit of justice, their
27:47
Speaker 3: pursuit of just of hope. And I think, yeah, I mean,
27:51
Speaker 3: you gotta have it's that hope, that mustard seed they
27:55
Speaker 3: hope for me.
27:57
Speaker 7: Agree you said that, well, I must see right here,
28:00
Speaker 7: we got one right, Yes, it's just that's all we need, Yes, mam,
28:05
Speaker 7: we need.
28:05
Speaker 4: I'm really I'm really shocked at how into this interview
28:08
Speaker 4: you are. It is gonna be a little ten.
28:14
Speaker 1: Minutes in and out.
28:17
Speaker 3: Well.
28:17
Speaker 2: June twenty nine, ten pm. Declarations, Black Americans and the
28:21
Speaker 2: Revolutionary War. I mean, I guess we can end. What's
28:25
Speaker 2: the biggest lie of Americans tell themselves about the Revolutionary War?
28:28
Speaker 2: That you hope this documentary?
28:30
Speaker 4: No the spells And I chime in for me, it's
28:33
Speaker 4: not about the Revolutionary War. It's just about the founding
28:35
Speaker 4: of the country and that we were here, We were
28:38
Speaker 4: a part of it. We were active architects in our
28:41
Speaker 4: own rights.
28:42
Speaker 3: It was a secession document. It was that's what it was,
28:46
Speaker 3: not a freedom, but a secession.
28:50
Speaker 5: That was for the people.
28:52
Speaker 1: You gotta cultural cos she wanted to.
29:03
Speaker 6: I don't know.
29:15
Speaker 8: Before I came on, a friend said you have an
29:17
Speaker 8: opportunity to go viral in a very bad way.
29:21
Speaker 7: Be careful for a second every time.
29:27
Speaker 4: And of course she likes.
29:31
Speaker 1: Appreciate it.
29:32
Speaker 5: Every knows you.
29:37
Speaker 6: The biggest lie that that we're told is that we're
29:40
Speaker 6: less than, is that people of color and black people
29:43
Speaker 6: are less than. That's what we are trained and told
29:48
Speaker 6: over and over and over again. And trying to deconstruct
29:53
Speaker 6: that and dissect that is the journey. And that's why
29:57
Speaker 6: this film is so important because it helps deconstructed that
30:01
Speaker 6: lie and show people that we were actually integral to
30:06
Speaker 6: this thing that we call the Declaration of Independence.
30:09
Speaker 2: Yes right, well, Alfonso Maya, Stacey doctor Moon, thank you
30:13
Speaker 2: for joining us. Declarations Black Americans and the Revolutionary War.
30:16
Speaker 2: June twenty nine, ten pm on PBS.
30:20
Speaker 6: And also July third, eleven am at the Black Global
30:25
Speaker 6: Black Economic Forum at the Essence Festival. If folks are there,
30:28
Speaker 6: please come and see yea with it. It'll be in
30:32
Speaker 6: the Great Hall in the Convention Center in Convention.
30:35
Speaker 2: Center all right, it's the Breakfast Club. Every day a
30:40
Speaker 2: waiting go click your ass up the Breakfast Club.
30:43
Speaker 1: You don't finish the dum