Latest / Skin Anarchy / Prudvi Kaka, Chief Scientific Officer, NIOD

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Prudvi Kaka, Chief Scientific Officer, NIOD · Skin Anarchy

0:01
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0:57
SPEAKER_04: Back to Skincare Anarchy.
0:58
SPEAKER_04: This is your host, Ekta, and I am super, super excited about this episode because this is the reason I started Skincare Anarchy to be able to host this brand.
1:06
SPEAKER_04: So, um, you know, without further ado, I want to introduce you guys um to the chief scientific officer for the brand Neod, which is the crown jewel of Desium.
1:16
SPEAKER_04: Um, Prithvi Kaka.
1:17
SPEAKER_04: Welcome to the show, Prithvi.
1:18
SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much for your time and your willingness to come onto the show.
1:25
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Ekta.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: That's my pleasure.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, hello to Skincare Anarchy followers as well as Desium followers.
1:32
SPEAKER_04: Um, it's such an honor to host you, and I would love to get started if you could tell us about um, you know, your career and your background, um, you know, just just your education, like what you went to school for, all of that good stuff.
1:45
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, to begin with, I'm an immigrant from India.
1:50
SPEAKER_02: I moved to Canada in 2011.
1:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, I finished my bachelor's in pharmacy back in India.
1:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, I moved to Canada as a student.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh, when I came to Canada, I went to Centennial uh for biotechnology and industrial microbiology.
2:06
SPEAKER_02: Um so it it the spark of wanting to become a formulation chemist has actually started uh while I was studying pharmacy.
2:17
SPEAKER_02: Uh we had a course, uh, it was all about cosmetic formulations and yeah, something just uh ignited back then and that just continued to lay the the path to where I am today.
2:30
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
2:31
SPEAKER_02: And and I got lucky enough uh to be part of Desium since 2014.
2:37
SPEAKER_02: And here we are.
2:39
SPEAKER_04: I mean, that's what a journey, right?
2:41
SPEAKER_04: I know my parents are actually, you know, we're I'm from India as well, and I I know the journey of coming from there and transitioning um into the West.
2:49
SPEAKER_04: So, how has how was that for you?
2:51
SPEAKER_04: Did you have hurdles or oh uh oh yeah, a lot.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, left parents behind, um, as well as the other extended family, and just came here with my wife.
3:03
SPEAKER_02: Um literally had nothing, just just me and my wife.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh, didn't know anyone back here in Canada.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, but luckily, I think with some good people around me, yeah, came came to uh Jesus.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, that's that's that's amazing.
3:19
SPEAKER_04: Well, you know, hats off to you because that's I know how um amazing what feat that is.
3:24
SPEAKER_04: But I want to um I want to dive into the the meat and potatoes here.
3:28
SPEAKER_04: And I really want to talk science with you.
3:30
SPEAKER_04: So I would love it if you could give us maybe a starting general overview of how you know you've approached this this line and this brand in terms of um with your background, you know, what are some of the key things that you want to share with us as from the chemistry side about the formulations?
3:48
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: Um so so to begin with on neod, um it was um it was Brandon's vision back then.
3:58
SPEAKER_02: Um when he first introduced me to the concept of NEOD, um, I I was thrilled.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh I mean the fact that I come from a pharmaceutical background and had no prior cosmetic or skincare experience, I think the frequencies just matched.
4:17
SPEAKER_02: And from the very first product till now, um I I think it automatically connects and clicks.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: Um I mean, just to kind of draw a comparison, I mean, if you take uh a car brand BMW, and if you compare their three series versus M series, that's exactly uh the difference between the ordinary and neod.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: Uh I mean, ordinary is all about uh the commodity ingredients, uh ingredients that are well known to everyone um that use skincare.
4:50
SPEAKER_02: But when it comes to neod, um it is a brand for hyper-educated.
4:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think for anyone to understand this brand, it's a two-way effort.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh definitely, as a manufacturer, we'll put all the effort to make the information digestible.
5:07
SPEAKER_02: But I think the user uh here is more than a normal uh skincare user.
5:14
SPEAKER_02: And uh there's a bit of effort needed from their side also to understand this.
5:18
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we're the geeks of the skincare community, we're the nerds and the geeks that love you guys.
5:23
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I I know when I first discovered your superoxide dismutase mist, I was just sitting there like, this is brilliant.
5:30
SPEAKER_04: Why, like, why can't everybody just use the scientific terminology we already have and just you know, it was just such a cool, you know, like a like an experience for me as a science, you know, student of science, right?
5:43
SPEAKER_04: Like it was it was cool to see a brand being that transparent and that like just straight up.
5:49
SPEAKER_04: And for those of us who know these words and know these, like, you know, certain enzymes, it just it's almost like a treat to see that.
5:56
SPEAKER_04: So I know what you mean um when you say what you said.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: That's so great to hear.
6:01
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
6:02
SPEAKER_04: So I want to actually um I want to dive in a little bit into um, you know, I know that the the line has a lot of very specific products and it's very, very specific how you use them and in what order.
6:14
SPEAKER_04: So can you tell us about the logic behind that?
6:17
SPEAKER_04: You know, um, you know, how is that kind of thought out and you know, maybe give us like an example of a series of products that somebody would use and why they use for the, you know, why one is the first step and why the last one is the last step, that kind of thing.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so so happy to kind of uh give some context on that.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: So so I think the the whole skincare regimen start starts with the cleansing step.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, so so once the skin is all clean, um generally we tend to recommend any user to start applying products that are thin in texture.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: Uh, so something like Cias, uh twoist one.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: It it comes with a really water light texture.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: Um and and as they go within their regimen, you you can kind of tend to um put your products in the order of the texture.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: Uh so something that is super thin can go first, and something that is super thick can go at the end.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: And and if anyone would like to use an SPF, I think at the end would kind of make it much more efficient uh in terms of what it does.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh so again, the logic behind that is uh so if you take CAIS, uh there's no viscosity um based ingredients, there's no uh emulsifiers that can really give any body to the product.
7:45
SPEAKER_02: So all you have is really the formula with mostly the active ingredients and other functional ingredients like preservatives.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: Um so if you then look at products with a bit of viscosity or high viscosity, it would definitely have a thickener, it would have an emulsifier.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: So those ingredients are present along with the active ingredients.
8:08
SPEAKER_02: So when people are using two or three products or more, uh, we don't want those ingredients to come in the way because as they can give body, which also means that they're high in molecular weight, which could be uh in the way for the active ingredient to help with any of the concerns.
8:27
SPEAKER_02: And and second point is we usually recommend our users to go by the priority of their concern.
8:35
SPEAKER_02: So let's say if dryness is a bit more of a concern than um something else, then that's the order uh that someone should also go in.
8:44
SPEAKER_04: Right.
8:45
SPEAKER_04: Okay, so that makes sense.
8:46
SPEAKER_04: I mean, that makes total sense what you said.
8:48
SPEAKER_04: And I and I find it interesting because um, you know, in terms of formulation, I know a lot of people talk about you know products going bad or whatnot, but I have a question for the for the more water-based formulas.
9:01
SPEAKER_04: I mean, is there a difference in shelf life for those compared to the ones that have more, you know, kind of like meat to them?
9:08
SPEAKER_04: I guess you could say, or is there like how does that work?
9:11
SPEAKER_04: I mean, the chemistry.
9:12
SPEAKER_04: I'm really just I'm a novice, so that's why I'm asking.
9:16
SPEAKER_02: Not really.
9:16
SPEAKER_02: I think uh it really depends on the active ingredient or the other functional ingredients present in the product.
9:25
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, so so so let's uh I mean as an example, um we can um what what I can think of something sensitive.
9:40
SPEAKER_04: Um like for example, the copper serum, right?
9:44
SPEAKER_04: So so that the copper serum is very, very it has very water-based, like it or not based, but it's watery, right?
9:51
SPEAKER_04: Very light.
9:51
SPEAKER_04: But then you have, for example, um, I don't know, like a like a thicker serum.
9:57
SPEAKER_04: So like is there a difference in the two in terms of like shelf life or you know, um being exposed to certain things like light or air, you know, does that matter?
10:06
SPEAKER_02: No, no, not really, though.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: Um one there's one logic there.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: So let's say if we're talking about thicker products and if it contains oil and water, uh, then it is technically an emulsion.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: So emulsions are that are more dynamically unstable.
10:22
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: Um so um, I mean, it could it can be made stable, but it won't be stable forever.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but that being said, usually in cosmetics, uh most of the products doesn't come with expert aid, which means that they're good for uh over 30 or 36 months.
10:43
SPEAKER_04: Interesting.
10:44
SPEAKER_04: Okay, well, I want to actually ask more specific questions about NEODS products because I I really think you guys have like obviously some amazing stuff.
10:53
SPEAKER_04: And, you know, for example, one of my favorite products is your voicemail mask.
10:57
SPEAKER_04: And I really want to know what sorcery went into this product because it is my favorite overnight mask.
11:04
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I wake up with the most beautiful, smooth, like it's almost as if like, you know, I went back three years.
11:11
SPEAKER_04: So, like, what really what's behind that um in the chemist from the chemistry side?
11:16
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, that's one of my uh favorite products as well.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: So, so really two things that makes it really unique.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: Um so it uses a probiotic technology, uh, which you'll see as the first ingredient.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and secondly, the base.
11:35
SPEAKER_02: Uh, so it it comes in a silicone microemulsion base.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: So really the two things, uh, silicone kind of gives that immediate smooth feeling.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: Uh, since it is a microemulsion, I mean, within ingredients, you'll see uh dimethicone, vanilla, dimethicone, cross-polymer.
11:54
SPEAKER_02: So that is chemically a polymer, uh, but in a format of microemulsion.
12:01
SPEAKER_02: So as you apply the product on the skin, it breaks, uh, coalesce, and uh forms a soft, flexible film on the skin.
12:10
SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: And secondly, the probiotic, um, which is the key activing regent in there, uh, which helps long term uh to make skin really smooth, but it also has an instant smooth effect, and that is because of the protein electrolyte combination that acting regent has inherently, uh which together uh makes the total product after applying instantly as well as in a few hours extremely smooth.
12:43
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's like next level smooth.
12:46
SPEAKER_04: So I'm I'm so interested in that.
12:47
SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, thank you for explaining the chemistry of that.
12:50
SPEAKER_04: I know I'm gonna go and look up a lot of the things you just said because I want to learn more.
12:55
SPEAKER_04: But yeah, it's just it's brilliant.
12:56
SPEAKER_04: It's a brilliant product.
12:57
SPEAKER_04: Now, another one I I wanted to ask you, Pradvi, um, for people out there, because you know, when you go onto the website, it's very hard for me as a consumer to like automatically design my regimen.
13:09
SPEAKER_04: So, like, can you give us, for example, a you know, like an example regimen for someone who has combination skin?
13:16
SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, is can you tell us like a few products that you think work really well together for combination skin?
13:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so that's um I mean I'll I'll keep it general, uh Ecta, only because when when we started launching products under NEOT, uh we we really didn't take uh a pattern of approach.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: I mean you'll see products with different functions and sometimes similar functions.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: So, as an example, um if if you look for products for dry skin, you'll see two products.
13:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, you'll see hydration vaccine, which is um uh uh uh a bit rich in texture, um, has two elements.
13:59
SPEAKER_02: One is it kind of uh protects the barrier as well as it also supplements uh some of the skin components.
14:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh and on the other side we have uh MMHEDC2, which contains a wide array of hyaluronic technologies in there, uh which is light in texture compared to hydration waxing.
14:20
SPEAKER_02: So similarly, when it comes to uh combinational skin type, um we we don't have a product per se that can be used every single day, though two very close products that come to my mind are one is phabinone mud, which can be used once a week, and mastic mastic must, which is also a mask, uh, but you can kind of use it every single day.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: And and interestingly, mastic must, uh uh not sure if a lot of people are aware, it also has niacinamide and it also has uh mastic gum in it, uh, which helps with uh oily textures and so on.
15:01
SPEAKER_04: Interesting.
15:02
SPEAKER_04: Now, I that's actually leading me to a question.
15:04
SPEAKER_04: Now, when it comes to the ingredients that are used and you know, everything, how does that work for for you guys?
15:11
SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, is it everything synthesized?
15:13
SPEAKER_04: How do you I mean what you know what's the real you know process behind that in the formulation?
15:19
SPEAKER_02: I mean, when it comes to neonic that the primary um the primary objective is making a product that is extremely effective, um, but also safe.
15:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I mean, a good example is until CAIS was launched, uh, that there's really no products out there with copper peptide at at least the level that we offered.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: Um so so again, the objective here is bringing in effective products to the market.
15:49
SPEAKER_04: So that must involve a lot of new technology, right?
15:52
SPEAKER_04: From the from like the innovation aspect.
15:55
SPEAKER_04: So, you know, can you tell us about that?
15:57
SPEAKER_04: Like, what are some like breakthrough technologies that you've used to create some of these products?
16:04
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
16:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh, so I can talk about uh CEL, which is our uh recent launch.
16:09
SPEAKER_02: Uh I mean, not not anymore that recent, uh, but it's one of the latest launches.
16:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, so uh so for anyone that has used the product, they can uh kind of really uh understand the texture.
16:23
SPEAKER_02: The product is an interesting texture to begin with.
16:27
SPEAKER_02: It is a clear gel, it is blue, but at the same time, once applied, um, like anyone can feel that it is uh more than a normal gel.
16:38
SPEAKER_02: It it has a rich texture to it.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: Right.
16:41
SPEAKER_02: So so really what went into it is uh CIS uses GHK and GHKCU peptides.
16:50
SPEAKER_02: They're water-based, you put them in water, they quickly dissolve.
16:54
SPEAKER_02: But when it comes to the technology in CAIL, it is a bit more advanced and different.
17:02
SPEAKER_02: So in this specific product, we used a palmatoil GHKCU, which means there is a lipophilic component attached to the GHKCU, and it makes it extremely challenging to dissolve in any kind of solvents.
17:19
SPEAKER_02: So uh so normally uh it is soluble in few solvents, but those solvents are really not friendly on the skin.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: Either they dry, either they dry the skin or irritate the skin.
17:32
SPEAKER_02: So we discovered an amphiphilic liquid, which is also shown on the ingredient list called glycolipids, um, which is what we use to bring this technology as a solution uh rather than any other texture.
17:49
SPEAKER_02: And and and of course, we kind of patented this technology to kind of um alleviate the difference or uniqueness of this product.
17:58
SPEAKER_04: So, what is the reason for you know that lipophilic component being attached to it?
18:02
SPEAKER_04: Like, what is that like really doing in terms of like, you know, for the skin?
18:07
SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm thinking out from a biology perspective too, right?
18:10
SPEAKER_04: Like, is it easier for it to you know move through the epidermis and the dermis?
18:14
SPEAKER_04: Like, what is the purpose?
18:17
SPEAKER_02: So, so just to keep it within the cosmetic scope, all I could say is it has a better affinity compared to a non-polmital peptide, but that doesn't say the non-polmatoid peptides are not efficacious.
18:37
SPEAKER_02: I mean, both have their unique unique mechanisms, yeah.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, uh a lipophilic peptide definitely has a better affinity uh on the skin.
18:49
SPEAKER_04: Interesting.
18:50
SPEAKER_04: That's very interesting.
18:51
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I guess that makes sense because we do have a lipophilic, you know, more primarily barrier.
18:55
SPEAKER_04: So I guess maybe for transport it might be easier, right?
18:59
SPEAKER_04: I mean, who knows?
19:00
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
19:00
SPEAKER_04: I'm just guessing.
19:02
SPEAKER_04: But um, thank you for answering that.
19:04
SPEAKER_04: That was uh, you know, it's very interesting to me because you know, being it's being so science heavy and chemistry heavy, I mean, your line is it's something that automatically draws, I think, a lot of curiosity from all of the science background people out there, you know, and so it's very interesting to me like how you guys pick the ingredients that you pick and why.
19:26
SPEAKER_04: So I would love for you to like kind of dive into that is the logic behind, you know, when you're creating a new product, um, you know, site from the science perspective and from the chemistry perspective, what are, you know, how do you decide on that?
19:39
SPEAKER_04: Like, how do you decide on, well, this is the next thing that we need, you know, or like what's the whole process like?
19:46
SPEAKER_02: Got it.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: So so maybe I'll give you uh an example of of the journey we have with one of the products.
19:52
SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
19:53
SPEAKER_02: Flavanone mud, uh, so that's a mud mask.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, so so really the thought process we went through uh when thinking of that product was like we experienced all the mud-based products back then.
20:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the conc the concerns were really the the products were extremely thick.
20:15
SPEAKER_02: So when you try to layer them on your skin, I mean, half of the product that is applied to the skin would not be exposed to the skin.
20:23
SPEAKER_02: Right.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: And and secondly, uh, most of the mud mask to make them dry over time on the skin, uh, that they would contain alcohol, or to give a tightening feeling, that there would be a chemical called PVP, which is a film former.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: So what is that?
20:42
SPEAKER_04: What is that?
20:43
SPEAKER_04: I'm sorry.
20:44
SPEAKER_02: So PvP is a film former, uh, it's polyvinyl uh pyrolidone.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: So what it does is when you put it on your skin, um, it forms a film, it gives shine, and it also makes skin tighter.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
21:00
SPEAKER_02: So so so most of the masks contain these ingredients.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: I see.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: So so then, like if there is a solvent like alcohol, um again, I think is alcohol a good thing or bad thing can be a big topic by itself, but uh, but if you leave that uh fact on the side, uh I mean the masks then really are tricky to perform with alcohols or any other solvents or PvP.
21:29
SPEAKER_02: So so then with flavinum mud, the concept we took is um, I mean, if you look at the ingredient list, we used an ingredient called uh silica, uh, which in combination with uh Montmoranate, it helps with two things.
21:49
SPEAKER_02: One is it it is used as an emulsifier, yeah, and it also self dries the mask by itself.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: And it can also make the mask extremely thin in texture once applied on the skin.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: So it so it brought all the benefits in one package and also uh taking out all the cons that a usual mask would have.
22:17
SPEAKER_04: That's amazing.
22:18
SPEAKER_04: That's like it's basically like you're saying Niod is like the edit of all of the bad chemistry that's been done in other lines.
22:26
SPEAKER_04: Like this is the edited version, I feel like, you know, that's that's where it's really coming back down to um the more you explain it.
22:32
SPEAKER_04: Because, you know, if you're making something that's supposed to do something like the same way, but you guys are just you know doing it in a much more like I guess advanced way, then you know, that's really the you know, it's cutting edge, right?
22:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I I definitely don't want to say the other products are bad.
22:49
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there are really amazing products out there, but I think we take a different approach here.
22:55
SPEAKER_02: Um and again, uh we would love to solve the issues that any product would have just to make the whole performance better.
23:04
SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
23:05
SPEAKER_04: Now, now I have a question.
23:06
SPEAKER_04: Um, in terms of like it this is more of like a business question.
23:10
SPEAKER_04: So, like, I'm curious why hasn't there been more advertising around um you know this line under Desium?
23:17
SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm really curious because when I discovered you guys, it was just almost as if I I stumbled upon you because I was on Desium's website and I was like, ooh, what is this?
23:25
SPEAKER_04: You know, and I was going through all the brands and I was it it was almost as if nobody had really told me about it.
23:31
SPEAKER_04: So is do you know why you guys have not really um been very heavy with the advertising or marketing or anything?
23:38
SPEAKER_02: I mean, to begin with, from day one, we were not into typical advertising.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: Um and and mostly all the brands, it's a word of mouth.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: And and and on the other side, we actually focus on educating our audience and encouraging them to kind of make a cons consideration on what products uh should they really consider buying.
24:03
SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
24:04
SPEAKER_04: I mean that it makes sense, and you know, that's actually leads me to a question for you, Padu, because I think the most feedback I've gotten about um NEOD is that people don't know what to buy.
24:14
SPEAKER_04: Like you see what I'm saying?
24:16
SPEAKER_04: They don't know what products to buy together.
24:18
SPEAKER_04: And I'm really curious, like, if there's any advice you can give so that the navigating of that is it's more, I guess, in layman terms, like translatable for the consumer.
24:29
SPEAKER_04: Because, you know, I I know I've suggested your line so many times to like my friends, my close friends, they're like, oh my gosh, it's amazing.
24:36
SPEAKER_04: What is it?
24:37
SPEAKER_04: You know, and so like and and you know, and that's really the reaction.
24:40
SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, what it is is amazing.
24:42
SPEAKER_04: Like, just put it on your skin, trust me, you know.
24:45
SPEAKER_04: But like I want you to go into that a little bit if you can help um just the general consumer out there really understand how to approach buying um when they're approaching neode.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so as I uh told uh before, I mean, a brand like Neod takes a bit of time to understand uh and find out what products to really consider and use.
25:09
SPEAKER_02: Um, so so to me, I mean, if anyone is really interested in NEOD, rather than buying something right away, my suggestion would be to actually educate themselves um with at least the basics of skincare, the chemistry, the ingredients.
25:27
SPEAKER_02: Uh and once they know the concerns that they really want to target, I I won't say there are every solution for all the skin concerns under neon, but we at least have a good range of products um that can target a few concerns.
25:45
SPEAKER_04: Right.
25:45
SPEAKER_04: So so what are so what are some things that you think are fundamental to understanding before you approach skincare?
25:52
SPEAKER_04: Can you give us like some examples?
25:54
SPEAKER_04: Um so examples from product perspective or examples from just from like the general like idea, like the general understanding a consumer should have, like, you know, maybe like some examples of what we should like look up and research before we approach um skincare in general.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: For sure.
26:13
SPEAKER_02: So so I would say I mean to begin with, uh like fundamental thing is understanding the skin, like what kind of skin uh does the user has.
26:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:25
SPEAKER_02: Um and secondly, just familiarizing about skincare ingredients to begin with.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, matching to the concerns.
26:36
SPEAKER_03: Right.
26:37
SPEAKER_02: Um and and after, I mean, our website really offers a wide selection of products.
26:43
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I mean, if you um look at ordinary, uh, ordinary talks about a single ingredient-based products, which are really direct and they have its own purpose.
26:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh and on on a separate note, Halomide uh are easy to use or easy to understand.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, there's a product poor control, um, there's a product called Sub QSkin.
27:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, so so they're really direct and it just brings in uh that one pot solution uh for a concern.
27:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh then neon is definitely a bit higher uh in in standard, um which again uh needs that knowledge to kind of layer step by step.
27:28
SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
27:29
SPEAKER_04: So and and and that makes sense.
27:30
SPEAKER_04: You know, it is definitely I I definitely when I look at Neon and I and I think about it in terms of like the skincare hierarchy, I really do consider you guys to be, I mean, I'm not gonna lie at the top, because for me, you know, even with my science background, I've had to go into you know Google and and PubMed and look up something just out of curiosity, you know, it's really made me even more enthusiastic as a consumer, you know, and trying to understand my own skin and trying to understand how does chemistry fit in.
27:59
SPEAKER_04: You know, I know how biology fits in, but like, you know, so it's it's very, very unique what you guys have created.
28:04
SPEAKER_04: And I I just think that, you know, not enough uh kudos can be given for how how you know brilliant this line is.
28:11
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for all the kind words like that.
28:13
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
28:13
SPEAKER_04: Um, so I have some very general questions for you, Pradhvi, because I know that there are a lot of aspiring chemists out there, um, especially with your amazing journey um in the field.
28:23
SPEAKER_04: Would you have any advice for any students out there that are, you know, cause they want to go into cosmetic chemistry or you know, whatnot?
28:30
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, I'll keep it simple.
28:33
SPEAKER_02: Uh I mean, formulation is a creative job, um like any other um creative roles.
28:42
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I mean, one definitely have to think differently and and they need to keep challenging the status quo.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, and more importantly, one should really understand the market.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, like they need to understand the needs of the consumer and the full landscape of um the the competition within the market.
29:02
SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
29:04
SPEAKER_04: No, that makes sense.
29:05
SPEAKER_04: Now, I also want to know, um, you know, how long, like if you think about the products in the line, how long on average does it take to really properly formulate the the product?
29:16
SPEAKER_04: I mean, do you have like an average?
29:20
SPEAKER_02: I I would say on uh on the higher side, um uh a bit over one year uh for any product under neon.
29:29
SPEAKER_04: Interesting.
29:29
SPEAKER_04: So what do you guys do in terms of testing?
29:31
SPEAKER_04: Do you do like clinical trials?
29:33
SPEAKER_04: Do you do like consumer like how is the testing component incorporated?
29:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so so clinical side, we do safety and efficacy.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: Um so we do uh I mean we progress as we kind of take the formula to the next step.
29:48
SPEAKER_02: So we definitely start with in retros, uh ex vivo, in levos.
29:53
SPEAKER_02: Uh we sometimes also use in chemicals in silicos, uh, just to get a full understanding of the safety and efficacy.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: Um and separately, like any other uh cosmetic manufacturer, we we do the microbiology test as well just to make sure the microefficacy is there throughout the shelf life.
30:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh and we also do analytical testings uh when it comes to products like uh copper peptide, like the CIS uh two is to one or CIL1%.
30:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh we want to ensure that the peptide stays throughout its shelf life.
30:30
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:32
SPEAKER_04: That's interesting.
30:32
SPEAKER_04: That's so, in terms of like the ingredients that you're using, like the you know, um chemical formula, is there any kind of regulation um things that you have to go through?
30:43
SPEAKER_04: Any hurdles with like, you know, I don't know, like getting something approved?
30:47
SPEAKER_04: I know, like, for example, that you have very stringent criteria for something like clean skincare or clean products.
30:53
SPEAKER_04: Are there any um hurdles like that that you've had to go through to make sure that you can use a specific ingredient in a product?
31:00
SPEAKER_02: So uh I mean, uh cosmetic landscape uh changes by jurisdiction.
31:06
SPEAKER_02: Uh so if you take uh saliclic as an example, uh salic acid has a limit uh within Canada.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: Um it changes in US and Europe.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh so uh I mean it it is really reading dependent, but the most offerings uh that we do under NEOD are all cosmetics and they're not regulated in most of the jurisdictions.
31:32
SPEAKER_04: Right.
31:33
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: But there is a process and a practice we follow to ensure that we respect all the regulations within each of the jurisdictions.
31:42
SPEAKER_04: That's very interesting.
31:44
SPEAKER_04: Now I do want to ask you though, um, as a chemist, what is the hardest ingredient that you've ever had to work with?
31:50
SPEAKER_02: Um I I I don't think there's one, but I would say, I mean, under Neod Brand, uh, I mean, CIL has been the most hardest to formulate.
32:00
SPEAKER_04: Really?
32:01
SPEAKER_02: Um I again, it it comes to first the solubility.
32:05
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I mean, in the first phases of development, uh, we presented to Brandon back then a suspension of the same formula, right?
32:14
SPEAKER_02: And and and he was pretty clear.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: He said, I really want a solution.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: And and we had to go back and uh kind of relook at all the options and and also scaling up uh a product like that was extremely challenging.
32:32
SPEAKER_04: So why was it challenging?
32:35
SPEAKER_02: Uh I mean, one from the solubility side and and two um just the base itself, it's it's really interesting.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I mean, it at the end of the day, if you look at the formula, it is uh an oil-based uh formula, okay, and and it's thickened without any traditional waxes.
32:55
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
32:56
SPEAKER_04: So that's that's not normal.
32:58
SPEAKER_04: Okay, so waxes are used.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, if you see most of the oil-based formulas, you typically see wax.
33:05
SPEAKER_04: Right.
33:06
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
33:06
SPEAKER_02: And the way to do is like you put the oils and waxes together, you heat them, cool them, and that's it.
33:12
SPEAKER_02: Like you got um a base.
33:14
SPEAKER_02: But in this case, since we have sensitive ingredients, we decided not to heat the batch to begin with.
33:22
SPEAKER_02: So then that turned a lot of complications.
33:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, and and bringing in um an active combination, which is really heavy on the system, made it even complex.
33:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, so so the amphiphilic liquid that I was saying, the glycolipids and the combination with the the polymatoil copper peptide is really heavy on the system.
33:46
SPEAKER_02: So when this batch is being scaled up, uh specifically when combining all the faces, it it was really challenging to see and scale it up.
33:58
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
33:58
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's very interesting to me.
34:00
SPEAKER_04: And I wish I knew more about chemistry so I could like really pick your brain about every ingredient.
34:06
SPEAKER_04: But um, thank you for explaining that.
34:08
SPEAKER_04: I also I think my last question is you know, um, is there something you can recommend to the general consumer that can really help understand um more about the chemistry of skincare products?
34:20
SPEAKER_04: Um, is there a tool that we can, you know, search online or any books or anything that you recommend as a starting place if we if we want to learn more?
34:29
SPEAKER_02: Um of course.
34:30
SPEAKER_02: Um I mean, unfortunately, there's no one website that kind of gives the consumer end-to-end knowledge.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: Um I mean, I think it's a piecemeal of information here and there, and I think it it it requires a bit of work to put them all together.
34:49
SPEAKER_02: But a few examples that I can give are uh I mean the British Association of Dermatologists, or uh Cosmetics and Toiletries magazine, um, or even the FDA cosmetics uh website.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
35:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, or a few uh that can really give a good backbrand and and basics.
35:12
SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
35:13
SPEAKER_04: Well, thank you so much, brother.
35:15
SPEAKER_04: This was an extremely, extremely educational and very interesting.
35:19
SPEAKER_04: And I would love to have you back anytime if you guys ever, you know, if you have the time actually in your schedule, because I am all about learning as much as I can about chemistry because I really, you know, I'm very, very new to the air, the field.
35:31
SPEAKER_04: So thank you so much.
35:33
SPEAKER_02: My my pleasure, Ecta, and and thank you for having me and giving this opportunity.
35:37
SPEAKER_04: Of course.
35:38
SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much and everyone listening.
35:39
SPEAKER_04: If you guys have not already um, you know, gone and checked out NEOD, then you're missing out.
35:45
SPEAKER_04: Trust me.
35:46
SPEAKER_04: You guys really need to go check out the line, leave some feedback on the concept art for this episode.
35:51
SPEAKER_04: If you have any questions or if this intrigued you in terms of the chemistry or the science, leave us some questions and we will pass them along to the team.
35:58
SPEAKER_04: And thank you so much, and we'll be back next time.
36:06
SPEAKER_04: Hi guys, this is Ekta again.
36:07
SPEAKER_04: I just wanted to pop in and say I hope you really enjoy this episode.
36:11
SPEAKER_04: And also just to mention that we are so excited about our new sponsorship package, and um, we've been getting an immense response from it.
36:19
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36:22
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36:30
SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much for listening to the episode, and I will be back next time.
36:37
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37:44
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