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KILLER THRILLER DOCU: Murder 101: This high school class went looking for a killer…and may have found one · Legally Brunette

• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Hi, you guys. Welcome back to Killer Thriller Docu Edition.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: So today we are diving into a true crime investigation,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: seriously unlike any other that I've seen, and one that
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: started not in a police department, but inside a high
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: school classroom. So when teacher Alex Campbell, my new hero,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: introduced his students to the decades-old redhead murders, it was
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: supposed to be a lesson in sociology. Instead, his students
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: began digging into the case themselves, uncovering leads, examining evidence,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: and ultimately developing a theory about who could be responsible
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: for the murders. Their investigation became the subject of the
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: documentary Murder 101, raising a fascinating question, can a group
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: of high school students uncover something that investigators have missed
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: for decades? Today, we are lucky enough to have Alex
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Campbell himself join us to talk about how his classroom
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: investigation became a real-life cold case deep dive into and
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: what his students discovered, and whether they may have actually
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: identified a serial killer. Please welcome my hero, and soon
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: to be yours, Alex Campbell.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Hello.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Hi, Mr. Campbell.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us today.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: No problem. It's my pleasure. Sir, I was a couple
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: minutes late.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: You don't have to apologize for anything. I was just
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: recording and telling our audience, our listeners, that you are
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: my hero. And I want to give you... the ultimate compliment.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: So I upgraded my Hulu account to no commercials because
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: of you in this documentary.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's funny.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's just, it's, it's so interesting for me because,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: you know, this is what we do. We do, we
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: do true crime and this is, it didn't feel like
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: a true crime documentary per se. There's certainly that element
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: in it and the way that you all have made
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: such a difference, you know, in the lives of, uh, well,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: you know, the redhead murders and their families and, and
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: those victims, but also it just, it feels like a study.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: In, um, I.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Don't know, high school kids, the beauty of that. You know,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: when I was in high school, I was awkward and
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: insecure and I could see that in some of you know,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: your students. And I think most kids have that sort
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: of started trying to figure themselves out and then watching
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: them because of you and your class blossom into these little,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: besides being mini investigators, but just so much more mature
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: and sure of themselves. It was really beautiful. I loved it.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was neat. And you know, it's something that
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: you kind of hope comes through. But, you know, you
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: never know if it will. And we hope that people
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: would see that aspect and enjoy it.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: That's the aspect I enjoyed the most. And not because
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: it wasn't the redhead murders and what you all uncovered
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: was unbelievable. It really was. But just, you know what?
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I'm a mother of not teenagers anymore, but they were once. They're,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: you know, 24 and 26 now. And just watching these
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: great kids and watching the way that you mentored them
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: and opened their eyes to, you know, empathy. And it
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: was just really, it's just, it's absolutely beautiful. I love, love,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: loved it.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I appreciate all that. That was something that,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: you know, we talked about with the production team and
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: we just hoped people would get it. You know, it's,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: it's a little different than your normal true crime.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Well, only in, yes, in a lot of ways, but
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: in the sense that we got to know these kids and, right?
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Separate from true crime. We got to know their lives. Sadly,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of their lives have been affected by crime.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: And that, you know, and watching their resilience is just
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: so inspiring. You know, and watching the way they all
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: were taking care of each other and becoming friends despite
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: the obstacles. You know, watching Crimson get adopted. I was
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: beside myself and I don't know, you know, watching Lacey
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: just sort of figure out what she needed to know
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: and the way she spoke of you. And when crimson
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: birthday cake, I mean the whole thing, it's just amazing. Amazing.
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  Speaker 1: Really cool.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, that's what I love most about my job. And, uh,
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  Speaker 2: I'm glad people got a little glimpse of that.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: It seems like they got to see why I love
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: my job so much. And I'm glad, I'm glad that
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: it's resonating with people.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it certainly is with me. Um, So let's
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: talk about the part of it that is also fascinating.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Not my favorite part, but still really quite unbelievable. The
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: redhead murders. And I, I want to know before we
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: sort of dive in specifically. So is this, this what
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: you've started now and what has now become a documentary
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: that is going to blow up all around the world.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: I would think that this is such an untapped resource, right?
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  Speaker 1: Like high school kids looking for, purpose if they're interested
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: in this type of investigation and actually being of service
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: to the world of crime and investigation and all of that.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: I would think that this is, to me, this is
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: just a brilliant idea.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's what I thought. If we talk
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: to investigators and they always had the same story, you know,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: they have so many cases and usually there's not a
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: dedicated cold case anything. So they have all these current
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: cases and they're trying to squeeze a little bit of
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: work in on those if they ever get a chance.
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  Speaker 2: And there's just not enough time and not enough resources
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: on their end. And then you have these students that
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: need like authentic work where they can practice what they're learning.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: And I've got 30 of them in a class locked
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: up down here. Like, let's turn these kids loose and
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: look how much work they can get done. There's not
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: one of them. You know, there's 30 of them per class.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: And if people would see them as that resource, you know,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: that was the big thing is they need to learn
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: to understand, like, these students are a huge untapped resource.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: The stuff that usually takes law enforcement so long, just
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: the getting documents, the going through documents, the putting cases together,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: putting together timelines, those take hundreds or thousands of hours.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: But I have students, we're down here 180 days a
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: year for an hour a day, and I've got 30
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: kids per day. Think about the thousands of hours we
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: can put into it. And it took a little while,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: but it seems like we've gotten through to a few
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: agencies and we're actually, we've got a really powerful partnership
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: this year with a police agency working in case in
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: real time. So it's been good. And I hope other
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: people in other schools and, and around the country and
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: around the world, see what a like untapped potential is there.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: If they could just learn to see the kids that way. And,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: you know, you don't have to give them things. You're
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: not comfortable giving them, just give them the parts that you,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: you could use their help on. Anything to them is
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  Speaker 2: better than a textbook, you know, and anything they can
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  Speaker 2: do to help you is something that you didn't have
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: to do and saves you time. So anyway, it's, it's
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: been good. Thank you for saying that. And I think
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: people are beginning to kind of think about it that way.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: And I'm hearing it from people. So I hope to
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: see that happening in other places.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: I think it's very easy to see. I was actually wondering,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: so you mentioned you can give them as much as
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: you want to, but like, have you had any pushback
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: from parents? Not pushback. I can't imagine there would be
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: real pushback, but fear that like their kids would be
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: a little traumatized by some of the stories, you know,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: by some of the details. No?
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Never.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: That's great.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: It's a very common question. And it just seems like
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: they just get it. You know, it seems to me
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  Speaker 2: that the people who don't have kids or maybe they're
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: older and haven't had kids at home in a long time,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: they tend to worry about that. But as you can
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: see from that show, look how crime stories are affecting
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  Speaker 2: so many of my students to pretend like they don't know.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: about crime or incarcerated individuals or abuse or neglect or
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: addiction or whatever, like, is just really not in reality
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: with my students. And I think most people who have
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: kids that age actually appreciate the fact that there's a
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: class where they can learn about those things. And instead of, like,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: they're going to learn about it in movies, right? The
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: kids are watching movies. They're listening to songs. They're on
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: social media. So they hear about it. They see it
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  Speaker 2: all the time. But I think the reason it's better
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: to learn about it in my class is that we
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: learn about reality. You know, what you see on TV
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  Speaker 2: is probably not going to be real. The way the
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: movie shows it is not going to be accurate. But
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: when we have family members and victims and police officers
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: and mental health counselors and all these people that we're
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: working with, the kids really get a real kind of
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: accurate understanding of these things. And it's not sensationalized. You know, it's,
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  Speaker 2: it's handled with respect. And I think that kids really,
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: it really makes a lot of sense to them. And
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: the parents who are living with it, right, they're trying
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: to help their kids learn and figure these things out
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  Speaker 2: and deal with this. It seems to me that they
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: just totally understand what's going on. They appreciate it. I've
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  Speaker 2: even had parents say that it leads to so many
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: good conversations that they normally wouldn't get a chance to
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  Speaker 2: have with their student about you know what can you
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: do to not be a victim this is why I
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: don't let you do this or that now you're starting
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: to understand why so it's it's really a it's it's
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: been great for me to try to help my students
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  Speaker 2: process some of the things they're already living through And
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: I think most parents really appreciate the fact that there's
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: a class that deals with these things in reality and
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: kind of gives the kids like a real look.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Listen, yeah, sure. They're not babies. I mean, they are
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: in high school. So that when you wrapped the doc,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: that was how long ago? A year ago?
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: So it wasn't spring of 26. It was spring of 25.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: So there's been a school year and now we've started
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: another school year since.
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  Speaker 1: All right. So where are we? What crimes have we
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: solved in that year? Yeah.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: So last, you kind of felt this at the end
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: of Murder 101, like Jerry Johns is most likely a
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: serial killer. We still need some work.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: To be done. How many does it take?
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Two, just two. Okay.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Just two.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, thankfully, you know, Linda lived. If he had
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: choked her five more seconds, she probably wouldn't have lived,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: and that would have been his second victim. But thankfully,
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: she did live. But I think the cops feel like
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: there's probably a couple more that they know of, and
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: who knows how many more, but But we also felt
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: like there were some other killers, right? We kind of
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: got that. Jerry Johns cannot be responsible for all of these.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: So last year, my students actually wrote a book. They
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: wanted to see how many serial killers there were in
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Tennessee in the 1980s. And our count was over 20,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: just in Tennessee in the 1980s. But there were nine
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: that were highway serial killers. So they wrote a whole
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: book about just the highway serial killers of Tennessee in
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: the 1980s. And that was called Driven by Rage, Fueled
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: by Diesel. And we got a real publisher.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: That's a good title.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, real publisher, not self-published, a real publisher that published it,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: put it out there. And this was the cool part.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: They had to help find victims that have not been
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: related to these killers yet. And when they reached out
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: to one law enforcement agency in Kentucky, they said that
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: they didn't even know that they had any activity that
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: related to a killer that was down here in Tennessee.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: So they have now reopened a case, which they did
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: not even know about until my students told them. And
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: that's the case we're working in real time with the
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: police in Kentucky. There was a man who killed a
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: woman here and was executed for it. But his wife,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: his first wife died suspiciously. The students did a lot
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: of work and convinced the cops that they definitely needed
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: to go back and look at this case again. It's
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: a 46 year old case. It was ruled an accident
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: at the time, but it is highly likely that this
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: guy killed his first wife and got away with it.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: So we are working on that case this year. And
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: but like real time, I mean, I get an email.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: He was he was executed because of the second murder.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: This one they declared an accidental death. And you know,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: when you file for divorce right before you die and
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: you're 20 and you die in a bathtub and there's
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: no water in the bathtub and there's no alcohol or
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: drugs in your system. And the daughter says, I mean,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: what do they think she, she had thrown up and
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: because she had some, of the contents in her throat,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: they ruled it as a choking. But why is a
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: 20 year old girl laying on her back in the tub,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: throwing up when she just filed for divorce? The only
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: other person in the house is her husband and her
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: two tiny children. The whole thing seems suspicious, but once
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: they ruled it accidental death, they just, that was that.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: And then they kept it for a while, but it's
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: an accident, so they got rid of the case. And
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: no law enforcement officer up there at the time had
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: ever even heard of it.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, then Mr. Campbell's kids came along.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: That's what we have time to do, right? We have
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: time to go look at every single death in America
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: that we can get our hands on and say, are
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: these matching with any of these people? And that's just one.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: We know that there are dozens, if not hundreds, of
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: more of those. That can be related to those nine
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: killers that my students looked at. But we just got
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: one law enforcement agency that was willing to listen. So
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: that's our work this year. And we started timelines. We
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: just had a wrapper. It's a very complicated case spanning
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: several states. So we're just getting our mind kind of
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: wrapped around that, teaching each other. And then we had
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: to do a whole section on statement analysis because all
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: these people are dead now. So all we have is
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: what was put in these reports. So we had to
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: learn how to analyze statements. And then the police are
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: trusting us to create a timeline.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: So by next Thursday, we have to have a timeline
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: as complete as possible. The police chief will be down
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: here to check on our progress.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Crazy.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow. She does. The woman, the first wife has
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: one brother. That's all that's left. And he always felt
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: that it was suspicious. Yeah. And our goal is, is
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: to give him the truth.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: If it's true that it was an accident, then that,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: that that's that, but whatever the truth is, our goal
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: is by the end of the year.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: I love that lesson that you all were teaching about
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: evidence and not trying to like, you have to sort of,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: you have a piece, you don't try to make the
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: other pieces fit into the piece you have to adjust.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: And that's, I think that's kind of a life lesson, right? Like,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Not too corny, but like, you know, you can't, you
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: can get stuck in something and you won't be able
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: to see the forest or the trees or whatever that
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: expression is.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: We have a great investigator that always comes and works
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: with us at the beginning of the year. And I
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: have him do just a lesson on what does it
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: take to be a great investigator. And he always does
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: such a great job because he says the same thing
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: every year. He says, your job is not to solve cases.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: You know, that's the jury's job, if you think about it.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: the DA presents the cases, the jury listens to the
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: cases and they will determine whether they feel the person
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: is guilty or not. He said, an investigator just follows leads.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Your job is to look at a case and be
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: smart and think about what doesn't fit. What questions need
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: to be asked next? Where do I go here? Where
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: do I go there? And you just follow the leads.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: You cannot predetermine. You just follow the leads. And that's
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: a great thing. We try to always do that. And it, um,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: That's a good life lesson, too. You know, you just
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: look at whatever it is, whatever problem you have in life,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: look at it and try to figure out, OK, where's
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: the problems? Where can I start? What can I do?
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: How do I get it to the next step and
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: just go from there?
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Journey, not the destination. I could think of like a
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: million cliches for this. I have to ask you this
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: because the kids in the doc, they all seemed just
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: so motivated and just, they were just beautiful kids. So
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you got lucky that you got
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: those kids and then the doc started, if there were
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: some that didn't even, but how do you grade these children?
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, how do you, they're all to me watching,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: they were perfect students in your class.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I get a lot of questions about that and
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: it can be hard, but for example, if you have
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: a PowerPoint presentation, that you're presenting, then there will be
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: some type of rubric. Your font has to be so big.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: It can't be tiny little font, no more than so
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: many bullet points. Your pictures have to have good spacing.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Every slide should be like the same thing. Those type things.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: When you're presenting, after we've done it a little while,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: are you looking at the audience? Are you not reading
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: off the screen? Those are all things I grade them on, right?
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: It just depends on what we're doing. Like this timeline,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: they have to learn how to put the date, put
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: the person who's doing the action first. They have to
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: say where they got it from. They have to use
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: the right words. They can't say that she left at
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: 8 o'clock. They have to say that the husband reported
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: that she left at 8 o'clock, right? Just trying to
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: be accurate, trying to figure out what's really being said. So, like,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: they have little activities like that all the time. And
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: we do a few worksheets, by the way.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: There are tests and everything.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: We did five worksheets just last week trying to learn
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: how to do statement analysis.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: So we are learning things. I don't have a textbook, obviously.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I don't doubt that. I don't doubt for one second
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: that you're learning things.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: So it depends what we're doing. So it could be
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: a worksheet that I'm grading you. There's stuff you just
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: have to be present for. Like, were you present when
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: the investigator was here? Did you have three questions ready
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: for him? And if you had time, did you ask
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: those questions? Did you take some notes on what he said?
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: So there's always ways I can assess them.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: I don't care if you don't give them a grade.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: To me, I mean, what they're learning is invaluable, but
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious about it, because watching it, it didn't
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: feel like school. It felt like a club, which I
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: guess there are clubs in school. That makes sense, too.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: But it just seems it I just I've lost the
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: whole part where they actually cared about the grade instead
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: of what they were learning and what they were doing.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the biggest thing is the assessments are nontraditional.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: You know, so we are learning all these things. Can
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: you put this in order? I mean, even the murder
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: board is a great, you know, you have this much
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: space on the board. You need to fill it up
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: with the most important things. You know, you have to
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: create a name, pick a picture, have 10 documents that support,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: you know, telling her story. So that's all things. But like,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: it's really, so we're learning things, but it's the assessment, right?
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: The assessment is the presentation to the victim's brother. The
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: assessment is come up with some ideas, present them to
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: the TBI.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Well, do it and be disciplined. I mean, all of
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: this requires discipline, right? It's not just you have to
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: actually put these methods into practice. Okay, there are things
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: I have to know. How did you get the money
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: for the car wrap?
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: So community, we got some community support for that.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: You got, how'd you get the money for the plane?
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: How'd you get all this money?
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: The plane is not as expensive as, actually a lot
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: of those things are not as expensive as you would think. Plus,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: we raise money. So, like, not everything makes it into
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: the documentary. Last year, we had to raise $ 2, 500 to
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: get those books printed. And we had bake sales. We
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: applied for grants. Some parents donated. We sold ads in
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: the book. We just do whatever. And then what they did,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: for example, last year, was they set it up for
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: all profits from the book go into an account that
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: fund future projects for sociology. So we have some good
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: community people who help us. I have $ 300 in classroom money.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: We apply for grants. We raise our own money, whatever
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: we got to do.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Like you said, that car, that costs thousands.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: That was a wrap. I think it was around $ 1, 200.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Okay. Now I don't really care. I'm just saying it's,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: I'm just, I want to get to like how you
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: got all this done. Cause just watching it's pretty amazing.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, we always just find a way and
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: that's here. That's my job, right? The job of the
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: students is to come up with all these great ideas.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: And my job is to support them.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to go find the money wherever I
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: have to.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: That's cool.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: But I got to say something. You thought our school
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: looked really nice. It looks good. But this is not
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: a wealthy school. It's not a wealthy community. It looks
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: good on camera. It does. We are not wealthy, but
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: we have a very giving, caring, and supportive community. And
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: it's like those shadow boxes. You know, I had those framed.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Those shadow boxes aren't cheap. You know, $ 30, $ 60 for
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: a nice glass. shadow box with all these things. I
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: put in for a grant over here with the bank,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: a community serving community grant. They loved it. They helped
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: us with it. So that's what we do. And sometimes
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: the school helps out.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I didn't, getting to know your students and what
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: they've been through and you showed a lot of their
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: homes and these are not like, you know, ridiculously sprawling.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: They live, they're living pretty simply. And so I was,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: I guess I was just so impressed with, what you
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: all have been able to do. And I don't know
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: what kind of money is involved in making a school.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: And as you're saying, I guess not as much as
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I would have thought, but you just have, that's the
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: kind of community that it is, which I think is
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: so great.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, last year we published the book. It
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: costs 2,500 bucks. We just raised that money ourselves. I mean,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: I had kids in the class who had culinary that
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: baked a bunch of cookies in culinary class and then
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: sold them at lunch and made $ 500. They sold for
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: three days and, But that's they care. You know, they
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: wanted to see that. And really, that's my job. I
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: think that is my job is to support the students.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: If I'm not setting up lecturing every day, like what
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: am I doing? Well, my job is to create a
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: learning experience for the students to just plug into. And
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: if that means we've got to get a book published
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: or a car wrapped, like that's what we have to do. So,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: you know, we figure out a way. We're resilient in Appalachia.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I could tell. So, all right. So you had
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: a lot of kids, obviously, that were that we focused on,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: that you focused on. Were there kids that did not
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: want to be part of this? Was it hard to
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: get the kids involved?
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, we had 13 students in the class and you
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: probably saw them in various ways. They all agreed to
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: be part of it. But we were that was just
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: us production. You know, we talked about you can be
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: in the class, but we don't have to be in
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: your house, you know. some kids were like, Hey, that's fine.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Come into class, video me, see my work. But they just,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: you know, they didn't want to have a camera.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: But nobody said, no, I'm not. Cause I would think
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: there's going to be a certain level of, we'll call
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: it fame or, you know, these kids, I'm walking down
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: the street, you know, I'm, I'm recognizing Lacey. Crimson is
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: not getting past me without me asking her for her autograph.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, all 13. That was a very small class.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: It was really strange. I had, 28 year before I
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: had 13 that year. I had 32 last year. I've
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: got 32 this year. It was just a really small class,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: which was strange for some reason. And all of them
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: were okay with it, but you can see that some
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: of them, um, you know, we're a little bit more
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: open to being filmed and stuff. And of course some
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: of them were more open, but that stuff gets cut
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: out too. You can only follow so many stories in
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: three hours, but everything was open to it. Yeah.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: I want to know where they are now. Like now
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: that it's, So some of them are still in school.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know if some of them are taking your
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: class again. But how have they reacted to the documentary
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: and seeing themselves up there? And like, I wish I
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: would have loved to have just seen them see it.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: It's been unusual. The sophomores I had are still here.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: There's about four or five of those. Everybody else, you know,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: juniors and seniors have graduated. But I don't really get
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: to see them that much. After they graduate, I see
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: very little of them. There's maybe a couple that I
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: kind of stay in contact with a little bit here
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: and there. But we did all get together as a community.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: And we had like a public watch party on the
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: day that it came out. Amazon gave us a copy.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: And so we used it. We played it in our
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: local theater. And we had like a red carpet event, food,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: you know, tickets, like the whole thing. It was amazing.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: I got to see all my students again together. Who knows?
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: That might be the last time we're all together. But
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: we all got to watch episode one together with the community,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: with their parents, school teachers, you know, different people. And
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: it was really powerful. I think they're really proud of
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: what they did. But I'll just tell you that kids
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: are different than us. They are literally videoing themselves, taking
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: pictures of themselves almost continuously.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Tell me about it.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: And they adapt to having a camera in their face
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: very quickly.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Within a week, they were just like, you know, the
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: camera's right here and they're working and it doesn't even
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: phase them. So they adapted really quickly. I think they're
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: proud of what they did. Some of them didn't even
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: watch the next two episodes for weeks because they're kids.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: They have busy lives. It blows me away, but it's true.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: One girl said, I hadn't even had a chance to
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: watch the third episode yet. And it had been several weeks.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: That's crazy. But they're proud. I really do. That's something
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: that you never know. Like when they're making a documentary,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: they just film for like 10 months. And you don't
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: know what makes it in and what doesn't. What's the
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: storyline going to be? If you think about true crime,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: normally they already have somebody in jail or somebody's already
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: been convicted. And then you just go back and tell
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: the story. So you know what the story is and
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: you know where it ends. But we actually filmed this
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: in real time. You know, and would we have somebody
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: in jail? We didn't know.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but but you know what, Mr. Campbell, this is
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: not this is it's not just and I know because
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: I do a lot of this. This is not just
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: a true crime story. This is a story about these
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: amazing kids and this amazing teacher. And even if not,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: you're not a fan of true crime. You know, I
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: think this is in my mind, this is more than that.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I don't even know how it's being represented. It's just
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: a true crime story. You know, that's how it feels
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: to me.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: When we talked about it as a production team, you know,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: I told them that I wanted the teaching profession, school,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: our young people, all that to be represented, not just
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: the true crime. And we had to be very victim forward.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: And they were totally on board. They got it. But
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: when they got here and they met the students and
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: lived here and got in the community, I think really
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: the story that came out to them was that this
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: is a coming of age story.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: It's just that students are learning about their world and
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: the adult world through true crime in the classroom. So
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: it really is following the students as they learn to
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: kind of take their place in the adult world. And
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: they learn that through true crime.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: It's also about relationships. It's also about you. It's also
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: about teachers that actually give a shit. And, you know,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: it's that and what a difference that can make. What
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: was what was the young kid? Man who said at graduation,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: he's like, Mr. Campbell's the reason I am who I am.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: As Andrew Barnett.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: He almost died. That was just so sweet.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: That's very powerful. That's why you're a teacher. Most people
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: think I'm here just for the money.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: But, you know, having those relationships with students is amazing.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: And I see it every year. Yeah, I see it
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: and I love it. And people say, gosh, I don't
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: know how you do it. You lock yourself in a
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: room with 900 teenagers. But I love my job. I
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: really do. Yeah, there's bad parts to it, but I
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: love it. And the part I love is the kids.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: And people never get to see it, but in this documentary,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: I hope that people did get to see that.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: I think there's a very fine line. And I don't,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: I'm not a teacher. You tell me if I'm wrong
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: between though, being a teacher and being a friend, being
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: a mentor, all those lines, you know, probably get crossed.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: I thought you did such a beautiful job of teaching
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: these kids, but still being an authority figure and, making
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: them laugh, being goofy, you know, making fun of them.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: They're making fun of you, but still knowing that you're
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: in charge. And I think that's probably, maybe that's come
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: from experience. I don't know. Maybe some people never learned that,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: but I thought that you were, you were really good
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: at that.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate it. They edited out when I yelled
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: at the kids. I start off very strict. Every student
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: will tell you because I, We have to have a
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: structure within which to work because you can tell that
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: a project like that could get out of control very quickly.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: So I start with a lot of structure and everybody
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: knows I am in charge. But once they begin to
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: show that they can do the work, that they can
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: be mature, I begin to lighten the reins that I have.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: But they have to show me that first. And so
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: they learn that trust is a two-way street. And I
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: always tell them, I'll let you do a lot of
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: crazy junk. You just have to show me that you
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: can handle it and you can still learn and do
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: what's expected of you. So it's hard to believe we've
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: been here five weeks already. But my class, my sociology
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: class is still learning that. I had to yell at
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: them real bad today. They just weren't working up to
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: the standard. But they will. You know, it was better
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: at the end than it was at the beginning. We'll learn.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: They'll grow.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Are you still doing this? Do you still tape? Are
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: you still I mean, is it is there going to
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: be maybe in 102?
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: We haven't heard anything back from Amazon. But I will
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: tell you, this thing that we're doing with the police
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: in Kentucky is so awesome. It's three steps above what
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: we did with the TBI. We weren't working an investigation
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: with them. You know, they came and asked us for
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: some help, and we helped them with something. But they
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: weren't sharing information and us going back and forth. This
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: is like on a whole other level. And I just
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: felt it was so special that Andrew has actually gone
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: into business as a filmographer. Really?
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Yes. He's the kid with the camera. Yes.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: And so he has come back and recorded a day.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: He's going to record like some big days this semester
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: because he asked me what was in the class. And
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: I told him and he said, I don't know. I
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: just feel this is going to be awesome. By the end,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: it's going to be awesome. I mean, if this happens,
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: my students will have found another serial killer that no
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: one else knew existed. And for him to have a
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: chance to be on the ground floor and kind of
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: follow a little bit of that. So we're doing we're
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: doing a little documentation. He said, if nobody wants it,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: I'll put it out on Facebook. You know, I'll do
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: something with it. But I just wanted to have have
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: it documented because here's the thing. Like, you never know
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: what's going to happen with the project. So I just
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: know it's cool. I know there's a real problem there.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: I know the kids kind of found this. I know
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: the cops trust them and we're working together. And I
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: just know there's a brother up there that needs to
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: know something before he dies. And I'm just trusting that
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: something big is going to happen. So we're filming it
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: just in case something big does.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: I was wondering at one point whether the cops ever
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: gave you, ever sort of pushed back, like, Listen, we'll
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: play this game with you, but we're talking about kids.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: They can't really help it. Was there a learning curve there?
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: That was an eight-year learning curve. What you saw in
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Murder 101 was them not wanting to engage with the
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: students for eight years. And then finally, the production team
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: helped me actually get a hold of the detective. The TBI,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: you cannot call any detectives. You can't email any detectives.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: You only get one number for the main office. You
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: don't talk to anybody. So he really didn't know what
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: we were doing. He had never heard. I mean, he
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: saw like a news article, but he didn't really understand.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: But when I was finally able to speak with him,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: I said, all I want you to do is come
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: in and listen to my students present. That's all I want.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: He listened to him present the first day and said, oh,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: my gosh, like you guys have done such good work
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: and you're so invested. He said, I want to come
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: tell you about a little bit more about a case.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: And I think you can help me. And that's all
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I wanted for eight years was for them to see
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: the work of the kids. And they would understand we're
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: not here to get headlines. We're not trying to sensationalize.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: We're not asking the TBI to give us like secret information.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I just want you to see the kids can do
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: amazing work, find out where you could use some help
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: and like, let's give them something meaningful to do. And
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: if they give you nothing, then who cares? The case
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: is no worse off. And they hopefully learned a few
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: skills that they give you something helpful and Look how
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: much it can actually.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Help the case. That is free labor right there.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm trying to tell them.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: You know, they had gotten very little information out about
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: the Tracy Walker case. And 24 million people saw it
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: or read it.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: I couldn't believe that.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: In three weeks. Like, why didn't you use these kids
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: eight years ago?
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I couldn't get over that.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: They needed to learn that. And I've had other classes
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: that could do equal work, you know.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: I bet.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: But they just weren't given the chance because– The police
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: really didn't understand because I'll just say that different police
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: agencies have different philosophies of how to work cases. And
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: some are more community-oriented than others. And some are easier
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: to get a hold of than others. But once we
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: were able to get a hold of the right people,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: I think they really understood. And that was really great,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: what we did. We know that the cops are getting
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: a lot of tips for the Tracy Walker case. Mm-hmm.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: And I'm still holding out hope that her brother can
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: find out exactly who's responsible for her death.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: I am too.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: I am too. I believe, no, they don't tell me,
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: but they're getting a lot of hints and tips. I
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: know that, I know that is occurring. They got a
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: bunch back in May of two years ago. And I
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: know they've gotten a bunch since murder 101 came out.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: We just hope they're getting the right ones that can
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: let them put it together as like a solid case.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: So they could present that as like a case closed and,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: I'm hoping that happens. I'm hoping it happens.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: So am I. I thought it was the most amazing
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: thing to see her brother talking to your kids, their reaction.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't know that kids in high school
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: get that chance that often to really be, not just
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: like they're already in it, they're emotionally invested from what
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: I've seen. And then to have this poor victim's brother
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: whose life has been, you know, not easy losing a
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: sister like that, but yeah. Talk about like, just, I
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: don't know, real life lessons and empathy and all of it.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: I have questions for you. A couple of silly ones,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: but I have to know. So too bad. How's the
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: log cabin?
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: It's good. We finally got our gutters on a couple
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: of months ago. When you build it yourself, you build
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: it slow. You do what you can do.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: See, that was so, I don't know who your cinematographer
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: was or who says, We're going to make him carry
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: these big rocks that I don't even know. They don't
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: seem like I would not want to lift those up
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: and put them in a pile. And they showed you
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: doing that, and I thought that was kind of fabulous.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I've got two teenage boys, and we
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: lifted all those logs by ourselves. Some of them weighed
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: over 1,000 pounds. And we literally cut down all the
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: trees ourselves, moved everything ourselves. We got very little extra
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: help from anybody. We didn't really have a lot of money.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: I don't think that also maybe you didn't want any help.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Like I'm just guessing.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: I love history and I love to learn and I've
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: tried to always continue to learn. It's, it's probably the
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: greatest learning experience in my life was building a home,
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: you know, took years and years of planning and work.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: So there is an enjoyment. I love to figure out problems.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: I'm a very physical kind of person. I did it
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: with my family. It was, it was cool. So the
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: cabin's great. Log cabin living is wonderful.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Were those your two kids at the end of the documentary?
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Two young men, I think.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: They're now 18 and 20. Two boys. Yes. Yes. And
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: so one of them graduated college in May, and he
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: went back for one semester to get another degree. And
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: then my 18-year-old graduates in December. Congratulations. I'll have them
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: all the way through. We homeschooled them, actually, because I
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: wanted to do crazy junk with them all the time.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: And we built a house. So they're getting through school
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: pretty early. And but all that's been fun.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: How does your sweet wife feel about all this?
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: At first, she didn't love the they follow her around
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: for days and she did everything she does. I mean,
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: she made the best homemade banana pudding and, you know,
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: sweet tea, which, you know, next for the gods. Of course,
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: she did all this stuff that she does. And she
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: ended up like on the ride lawnmower and she didn't
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: really like it, but I'm telling you, people have reacted
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: so well to that.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: I thought it was so great.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: People love it. And people come up and say, I
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: love that. I love the scene.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. She's cool. I love it.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: And to put up with me and my crazy things,
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: she has to be.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: Very, together since high school.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Actually. Yes. We were prom king and queen. We were Mr.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: And Mrs. Of our high school. And so, yeah, she's
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: put up with me a very, very long time.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: She's the unsung hero.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, I love that.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Well, you are the song hero. We really appreciate you
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: a lot. And I love the documentary and I'm so
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: happy for you for the school, for these kids. It's
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: pretty incredible.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: It is. And the other thing we talked about was
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: almost everybody that worked on the project, their family was
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: in education.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So Stacey Lee, she was a director. Her mom
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: is a teacher. The videographer, his dad, he just retired
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: as a principal. His mom is retiring soon as a teacher.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Even the producers, like John Watts, his sister is a teacher.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: So they all wanted to show school for what it
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: really is. They didn't want the campy, like kids hate school,
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: kids cut school, they get in trouble all the time.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: They wanted to show up for what it really was.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: And I thought they did a great job of that.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: And what we always thought was, yes, we want tips.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: We want to help the Walker family and many others.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: But we hope it does something for education. We hope.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: that teachers, parents, students, lawmakers, whoever, says our students can
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: do better than just like some worksheets and some bold words.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: We need to let them be part of the adult world,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: experience real trouble, real problems, real struggle to try to
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: solve these things, make sense of and practice what they're
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: learning in school. And so I'm hoping, I have heard
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: from a lot of people, but I'm hoping like something
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: very real comes out of this where I don't want
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: my class to be special. I want every single kid
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: in every single class to get some type of experience
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: with applying what they're learning and helping others through that.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: That should happen in every classroom. That should be non-negotiable
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: in my personal opinion. And I hope it's helping move
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: the needle in that direction.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: Well, my daughter is getting her master's right now in
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: early childhood education. Not the same thing exactly, but who knows?
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: I'm going to have her watch and maybe she'll change
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: her mind and decide she wants to teach high schoolers
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: and actually show us that high schoolers are people too. Yeah.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: I even have a manuscript that I'm hopefully going to
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: be published soon about using true crime in the classroom
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: because I've had so many questions about how to do it.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: But like there's even, you just got to think about
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: how you do it. There's stuff for middle school kids,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: elementary school kids, high school and college, you just got
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: to think about the way you're doing it and the
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: way they get kids involved. I mean, elementary school kids
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: can do a, how to be safe online. You know, that,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: that's like a true crime project. If all they do
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: is come up with 10 rules about how to be
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: safe with strangers, they're actually thinking about those same things.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: They're trying to solve a problem. They're trying to help people.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: In this case, it might be them and their little
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: fellow students. But I mean, I think anybody, and it
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to be crime. Like a lot of my
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: classes don't do crime. Um, But everybody should be allowed
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: to do a project that has meaning and find, you know,
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: what they're good at and how they can contribute. And
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: I hope it leads that way. And I always leave
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: every interview with this. When we started this, which will
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: be now in the spring, nine years ago, so almost
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: a decade, I asked the students what they wanted to
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: get out of it. You know, do you think you're
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: going to have all the redhead murders solved by the
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: end of the semester? You know, what are we really
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: trying to do? And the students, of course, understood that
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: probably would not happen. And what they said they wanted
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: was just one family to get the name back. Only
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: one of the six had a name when we started.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: That's so crazy.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: So just to be identified, just to help them get
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: a name back, much less figure out who did it
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: and let them have that kind of closure. And they said, Mr. Campbell,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: we just got to make it aware to people. That's
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: what we're going to hold ourselves accountable for. So I
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: didn't grade them on if they solved it or identified anybody.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: It was, you know, are we going to create this
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: profile of a killer? Are we going to have this
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: big press conference and get the word out? Are we
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: going to send stuff out to the media? That's what
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: I graded them on. And that's all they wanted. They
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: wanted the word to get out because you can't solve
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: cold cases without keeping the attention on them. So you
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: are actually the culmination of my students' dream. They wanted
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: people to hear about it. and keep the word going.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: So thank you for wanting to hear about it. Thank
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: you for honoring their wishes.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: It's my honor and pleasure, honestly. And I think you're
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: going to be a very busy man. When did it drop?
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: July the 10th, 13th, something like that.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure you have been busy and you're going
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: to be busy.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: It's been a little overwhelming, but I haven't had a
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: call from the Secretary of Education or anything yet. I'm
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: hoping for big That's what I want. So but thank
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: you for keeping the word going and getting it out there.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: This is how the cases will get solved. So thank you.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: And holding up the good work of my students.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Good for you. Really, really happy for you. Proud of
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: all of you.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. It's been a real
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: pleasure getting to speak with you.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Mr. Campbell.