Latest / King Dems Podcast | Growth Mindset, Leadership, AI and Business Insights / From Fear to Financial Freedom: Profit Strategies & Mindset Mastery w/ Kevin Barnicle

Transcript

From Fear to Financial Freedom: Profit Strategies & Mindset Mastery w/ Kevin Barnicle · King Dems Podcast | Growth Mindset, Leadership, AI and Business Insights

• 0:00
  You know, I, but I was scared to do it.
• 0:02
  I was afraid, you know, I never run a full time company.
• 0:06
  I had two kids, I had a mortgage.
• 0:08
  The bills kept coming in and, and, but I, I'd met with a buddy
• 0:12
  of mine or wasn't a friend of mine at the time, but he also
• 0:15
  owned the company and he was kind of similar position.
• 0:17
  And I met with him a number of times and meeting with him gave
• 0:20
  me a lot of confidence too. There was different exercises
• 0:23
  that I did like getting over fear, you know, doing a business
• 0:27
  plan. There were a tonne of things,
• 0:30
  you know, not only it's fine to have confidence, but then you
• 0:32
  also had to have data and you have to be able to back it up.
• 0:35
  So I, I went through a number of exercises to kind of get me to,
• 0:39
  to have the confidence to do it. And that was like a 678 month
• 0:42
  process. I wrote a book called the
• 0:44
  blueprint, how I kind of figured all this stuff out.
• 0:46
  And in it I talked about this is exactly what I did.
• 0:49
  I met with other entrepreneurs, I did a business plan, I did a
• 0:52
  fear it studying exercise. I did all these things and so
• 0:56
  that gave me the confidence. Before we dive back into today's
• 0:59
  conversation, I want to share something important.
• 1:01
  This episode includes a pay partnership with Better Help, a
• 1:03
  platform designed to make starting therapy easier.
• 1:05
  I know from my own journey as a leader and entrepreneur that
• 1:07
  life can sometimes feel overwhelming.
• 1:09
  There are seasons where stress, uncertainty, and pressure build
• 1:12
  up, and you need a safe space to process it all.
• 1:14
  That's where therapy comes in. Therapy isn't only for people
• 1:17
  facing clinical challenges. It's a space to reflect, grow,
• 1:20
  and find better ways to manage stress, relationships, and
• 1:23
  personal goals. It takes courage to seek help,
• 1:26
  but it's also one of the much investments you can make in your
• 1:28
  mental and emotional well in. That's why I'm proud to
• 1:30
  highlight Better Help with Better Help, you simply fill out
• 1:33
  a short questionnaire and get matched with a credential
• 1:35
  therapist in just a couple of days.
• 1:37
  If the first match doesn't feel like the right fit, you can
• 1:39
  easily switch Therapist at no extra cost until you find
• 1:41
  someone who truly connects with you.
• 1:43
  Inside the platform, you'll also find tools like downloading and
• 1:45
  group sessions on different topics that can support your
• 1:47
  growth. And with over 7000 reviews and a
• 1:49
  4.5 trustpathry reason, Better Help is a platform you can rely
• 1:53
  on. So if you feel like you'd
• 1:54
  benefit from talking to a. Therapist.
• 1:56
  Visit Betterhub. Dot com forward slash King
• 1:58
  James, that's betterhub.com/kingjames to get
• 2:01
  10% off your first month of therapy.
• 2:03
  Once again, this is a paid partnership with better help and
• 2:05
  I encourage you to take that first step.
• 2:07
  If you've been thinking about it, sometimes the best
• 2:09
  investment you can make these in yourself.
• 2:17
  Welcome to The Kingdom's podcast, where we share the
• 2:20
  stories of extraordinary people and dissect hot, relevant topics
• 2:24
  that shape our world. From visionary leaders to
• 2:26
  trailblazing creatives, we uncover the mindset, strategy,
• 2:30
  and grit behind greatness. Whether it's business, culture,
• 2:33
  or personal growth, we ask the real questions.
• 2:36
  This isn't just conversation, it's transformation.
• 2:39
  The Kingdom's podcast, Your next breakthrough starts here.
• 2:43
  Music licencing reimagined your life.
• 2:48
  Ladies and gentlemen, you'll once again welcome to the King
• 2:52
  James podcast and today I've got will be fighting out of Chicago,
• 2:58
  IL Macwortham, Kevin. Barnacle, that's an amazing
• 3:06
  intro. I feel like this is like the
• 3:08
  Chicago Bulls intro or something.
• 3:10
  I love it. Whoa, Chicago Bulls.
• 3:13
  That's the basketball team. Yes.
• 3:16
  How how you guys did in the NBA? This year we're not so great.
• 3:20
  I'm a season ticket holder a long time.
• 3:23
  We used to be doing great in the 90s with Michael Jordan.
• 3:25
  You might be familiar with but. Yeah, Michael.
• 3:28
  Jordan recently. Recently, not so.
• 3:30
  Great. Hopefully.
• 3:31
  We'll turn it around, yeah. Hopefully, hopefully and let me
• 3:36
  see. I've not really been following
• 3:38
  the NBA somewhat lately, but the last time I checked, you know
• 3:44
  the box. Yeah.
• 3:45
  Milwaukee boxer won the on the tournament.
• 3:48
  Yeah. Of course.
• 3:49
  That's because there's a Nigerian on that team.
• 3:53
  Yeah. Yeah, it is.
• 3:54
  Yeah, it is. It's a combo, yeah.
• 3:56
  Yeah. Oh, wow.
• 3:59
  So you see, your son is a good son.
• 4:00
  That's, that's the, that's the reason why he likes you.
• 4:03
  Yeah. And if your son loves Yanis,
• 4:05
  he's going to like me. So you need, you need to get
• 4:09
  yourself to watch this podcast. I will for sure.
• 4:12
  I always put him on the car and, you know, he could care less
• 4:14
  about listening, but I'll make him listen to it, yeah.
• 4:17
  OK, OK. And of course, you know I
• 4:19
  prepared your introduction, so please sit back and let me give
• 4:23
  you your flowers. So ladies and gentlemen, today I
• 4:26
  am joined by a remarkable guest, Kevin Barnacle.
• 4:30
  Kevin is a tech entrepreneur, author and founder of Control
• 4:35
  Legal technology company. He builds from scratch without
• 4:39
  high experience, scaled into one of the fastest growing companies
• 4:43
  in the US, and eventually sold not once but twice for millions
• 4:48
  to Epic, a global tech giant. He's also an Amazon best selling
• 4:53
  author of The Blueprint, starting a successful business
• 4:57
  and currently exploring passions in publishing and film
• 5:01
  production. From learning leadership on the
• 5:03
  job to mastering financial literacy, give a team into
• 5:08
  subscription modules and practising mindset mastery
• 5:11
  through meditation and therapy, Kevin's story easily even proves
• 5:15
  that you don't need all the answers to start, but you do
• 5:19
  need the right mindset to feel strong.
• 5:21
  Kevin, welcome to the show. Yeah, you, you're welcome.
• 5:31
  That of course, you know, you're always welcome.
• 5:32
  It's interesting, you know, reading through your
• 5:35
  introduction, right? You actually stand for
• 5:38
  everything that The Kingdom's podcast stands for.
• 5:40
  And when you look at The Kingdom's broadcast on or
• 5:42
  Spotify or Apple podcast, what do you see as the subtitle of a
• 5:47
  podcast? It's about growth mindset,
• 5:50
  leadership and business insights.
• 5:52
  And if that were to be a person? Thank you.
• 5:56
  Yeah, I definitely. I read, Yeah, I read the
• 6:01
  description of the podcast. I'm like that.
• 6:03
  That's exactly what I'm all about as well.
• 6:05
  So that is exactly. So tell me, tell, tell me.
• 6:08
  I've like, done a good job, you know, curated.
• 6:12
  Yeah, you did phenomenal. Good job.
• 6:16
  The King. The king of insurance.
• 6:21
  You know, it's, it's interesting how life just plays out.
• 6:27
  When I started, there's some guy in your neck of the woods who
• 6:30
  was telling me you need to create a niche.
• 6:33
  You just a generalist, blah, blah, blah.
• 6:35
  You cannot make it to the top, you know, without creating a
• 6:39
  niche. I'm like, I will discover what
• 6:41
  this is about. Don't worry.
• 6:42
  And you know, when I be discovered it right, I knew, you
• 6:45
  know, when I started, it was about sharing the stories of
• 6:50
  ordinary people doing extraordinary things.
• 6:53
  And, you know, some people liked it and, you know, some people
• 6:57
  were like, Nah, I don't like the idea of being painted as an
• 6:59
  ordinary person who's spinning around.
• 7:06
  We will spin it around. And, you know, over time, I've
• 7:09
  got to discover that what really do I care about?
• 7:11
  What really do I care about of growth mindset, leadership and
• 7:16
  of course, you know, with my pieces and find this background
• 7:19
  of pieces and sites and you know, I started to, you know,
• 7:22
  find big minds like yourself from around the world to speak
• 7:27
  to these topics. And I only say something.
• 7:30
  I have only two goals to achieve with this broadcast.
• 7:34
  And those two goals are to educate and to motivate.
• 7:38
  If I do that, my job is done. I don't like to stress myself.
• 7:42
  Yeah, I love that. I love that you said that too.
• 7:45
  And the kind of the pivot of the podcast, and it's something I
• 7:48
  actually talk about in my book too, is like running the
• 7:51
  business is hard, right? You're running the business and
• 7:54
  you've got to do something that not only provides value for
• 7:57
  listeners, you're getting good feedback there.
• 7:59
  Also something that you're passionate about and that you're
• 8:02
  interested in because it is hard running the business and you've
• 8:06
  got to have that. You've got to have that base of
• 8:09
  being passionate about it to want to push through all the
• 8:13
  obstacles because there are a tonne of obstacles.
• 8:15
  So you know, the fact that you're doing something, you're
• 8:18
  getting, you're getting up and talking to folks about the same
• 8:21
  topics that you're passionate about, that they're passionate
• 8:23
  about. That's how you persevere through
• 8:25
  the hard time. So good for you.
• 8:27
  Absolutely. Thank you very much.
• 8:29
  And of course, you know, at the risk of sounding like a broken
• 8:31
  record, there's something that I always say that an attitude of
• 8:34
  gratitude is good attitude. I'm grateful to you to have you
• 8:38
  on the forecast today. And I always say that anytime a
• 8:42
  person shares their time with you, they share their life with
• 8:45
  you. But press the SI unit for
• 8:47
  measuring life as time. So I'm really grateful for your
• 8:50
  time. I do not take it for granted at
• 8:52
  all. Yeah, same, same with you.
• 8:54
  Thanks for having me and thank you for.
• 8:58
  It's good having great minds like you.
• 8:59
  Think about it like 30 years ago. 30 years ago, these kind of
• 9:04
  things were not possible. I'm grateful for for technology
• 9:08
  and AI, you know, making these kind of interactions possible.
• 9:11
  Tapping into the video, I'm not I see myself as not very young.
• 9:16
  I'm not very old. I'm just like the sweet sport
• 9:19
  after the three years old millennial growing up, I used to
• 9:23
  read, you know, my dad had, you know, this really massive
• 9:25
  library and I was introduced to philosophy and psychology very
• 9:31
  early in life, reading the works of, you know, great minds like
• 9:35
  Aristotle, Socrates, even contemporary philosophers like
• 9:40
  Bertrin Grossel, Winston Churchill.
• 9:44
  A lot of people don't realise that Winston Churchill actually
• 9:46
  won a Nobel Prize for literature, like indeed, veteran
• 9:49
  Wassell as well. I read their books and I used to
• 9:53
  wish how I wish I could, you know, have a verbal discussion,
• 9:59
  you know, some of these great minds.
• 10:00
  Yeah. And I think I was born at the
• 10:05
  right time to grow up at the right time to do this.
• 10:09
  Yeah. Right.
• 10:10
  Yeah, because back then you wouldn't have been able to talk
• 10:12
  to them, right? They're very unlikely.
• 10:14
  Yeah. Cool.
• 10:16
  So I'm privileged, you know, to be able to speak with the great
• 10:20
  minds, you know, like yourself across the world.
• 10:22
  But you know, talking about business, you actually builds
• 10:26
  control without any prior text that of experience.
• 10:30
  What gave you that courage to to take that leap?
• 10:32
  You know, it's a constant leap into entrepreneurship.
• 10:36
  Yeah. You know, I was, my whole
• 10:37
  background was in sales and there's probably no more
• 10:42
  entrepreneurship type of job in corporate America than being in
• 10:45
  sales. You really, there's a lot of
• 10:47
  things that are on you. You got to wake up and you know,
• 10:50
  at least the roles that I was in go find opportunities anyway.
• 10:53
  So I learned, I felt like I learned a lot about business
• 10:56
  being in sales from finding customers, keeping customers,
• 11:00
  building a business, making it profitable, all those type of
• 11:02
  things. And I was the number one sales
• 11:05
  guy at this company and, and we were selling software to to
• 11:08
  lawyers for them to help them deal with lawsuits and
• 11:12
  investigations. So they there be a lawsuit they
• 11:14
  had to go through, look through a bunch of emails and we would
• 11:17
  sell them the tool and then they wouldn't have a lawsuit for a
• 11:19
  couple months and all of a sudden they would have a lawsuit
• 11:22
  and they would forget how to use the tool.
• 11:24
  They'll call me as the sales guy saying I need help, I need help.
• 11:27
  And I wasn't really supposed to be helping them with the tool.
• 11:29
  That was for another team, but I would kind of give them some
• 11:31
  advice or get people to help them.
• 11:33
  And this happening over and over and over and over.
• 11:35
  ANYWAYS, so I knew there was a market opportunity, right?
• 11:37
  So that's what I would say to any entrepreneurs like start
• 11:40
  with what is the market opportunity and make sure that
• 11:42
  people actually care about what you're doing.
• 11:45
  I knew that they care because they kept coming to me and I was
• 11:49
  trying to find companies out there that could help them and
• 11:52
  there was really none or they were doing a bad job.
• 11:54
  So I was always very entrepreneurial, you know,
• 11:57
  minded. I always want to run my own
• 11:59
  company, but I was just about your age.
• 12:02
  I had two young kids. I was married.
• 12:03
  My wife didn't work at, you know, I was, it was a high
• 12:05
  paying job and but I felt like, man, there's someone has got to
• 12:09
  do this business and it, there's no one better to do with me.
• 12:12
  And that the confidence I had was, I've always been a kind of
• 12:15
  a confident person because I know I, I work hard, I try hard,
• 12:19
  I care a lot. So, you know, I, but I was
• 12:23
  scared to do it. I was afraid, you know, I never
• 12:26
  run a full time company. I had two kids, I had a
• 12:29
  mortgage. The bills kept coming in.
• 12:31
  And, and, but I, I'd met with a buddy of mine or wasn't a friend
• 12:36
  of mine at the time, but he also owned the company and he was
• 12:38
  kind of similar position. And I met with him a number of
• 12:41
  times and meeting with him gave me a lot of confidence too.
• 12:44
  There was different exercises that I did like getting over
• 12:48
  fear, you know, doing a business plan.
• 12:50
  There were a tonne of things, you know, not only it's fine to
• 12:53
  have confidence, but then you also had to have data and you
• 12:56
  have to be able to back it up. So I, I went through a number of
• 12:59
  exercises to kind of get me to, to have the confidence to do it.
• 13:02
  And that was like a six, 7 eighth month process.
• 13:05
  I wrote a book called the Blueprint, how I kind of figured
• 13:07
  all this stuff out. And in it I talked about this is
• 13:10
  exactly what I did. I met with other entrepreneurs.
• 13:13
  I did a business plan, I did a fear it, studying, exercise.
• 13:16
  I did all these things. And so that gave me the
• 13:19
  confidence. I was still afraid to do it, but
• 13:21
  I did it, you know, and the courage.
• 13:23
  And then the minute I did it, I knew it was the right decision.
• 13:27
  Wow, the right decision. You know, talking about you
• 13:31
  having that relationship with your friend reminds me of what
• 13:34
  the Bible sees as ion sharpened ions too.
• 13:36
  Shot by Chaplin, the continent of fighting brethren.
• 13:41
  You know, it's very important to what I say, associate and
• 13:47
  fraternise with people of like minds and like goals, like
• 13:51
  directions in life. And of course, you know, to our
• 13:53
  audience, I hope you're picking up on this, right?
• 13:57
  So I remember when I was going to start the podcast, there are
• 14:03
  people who did not understand the dream.
• 14:06
  And you know what they there's? There's always gonna be funnier,
• 14:10
  though. Yeah, that.
• 14:11
  Always does discourage me because like, oh your finance
• 14:14
  guy? What's the finance guy looking
• 14:16
  for in the world? Media.
• 14:18
  Yeah. Let's have a conversation today
• 14:21
  with global top 2.5% today and you know.
• 14:28
  You know, yeah, it's all Congrats.
• 14:29
  Yeah, that's great. Now there's always people, you
• 14:32
  know, there's there's always doubters, there's always haters.
• 14:36
  You know, I don't know how many people told me I was crazy.
• 14:39
  You know, they're like, you're making all this money.
• 14:41
  You're we've got a pretty easy job.
• 14:42
  Wouldn't you don't start your own company.
• 14:45
  I thought about starting my own company.
• 14:47
  I never do it. They were, this is things that
• 14:48
  they were saying to me. I don't so many people and I was
• 14:51
  like, they don't know. They don't know what's going on
• 14:54
  in my brain. They don't know what I'm capable
• 14:56
  of. I'm not going to listen to them.
• 14:57
  And and it's also like one of the better pieces of advice that
• 15:00
  I think I've just cultivated in my own mind is don't ever take
• 15:04
  the advice of someone who hasn't done what you're doing right.
• 15:07
  I can't guarantee those people at a podcast, right?
• 15:11
  None of those people in a pocket.
• 15:12
  Like what? Why would I care about your
• 15:13
  opinion? Yeah, and yeah, you're right.
• 15:17
  You're what I'd like to see. I'd like to tell people that the
• 15:20
  best part of your opinion is the fact that your opinion does not
• 15:22
  count. That is the best part of your
• 15:24
  opinion. I like that, no.
• 15:26
  That's good, right? It, it's crazy.
• 15:29
  You know what? You just reminded me of
• 15:31
  something. I saw something on LinkedIn
• 15:34
  yesterday and it sort of baffled me.
• 15:38
  I think this person is an XC suite executive and they must
• 15:44
  probably be in there in their 50s or 60s.
• 15:46
  And this guy dropped a post that he's been job hunting for the
• 15:52
  past nine months and that, oh, he, he's done really, really
• 15:57
  high profile, you know, jobs, high profile organisations,
• 16:00
  international organisations, being it being called CEO and,
• 16:05
  you know, for certain organisations.
• 16:07
  And, you know, he's unhappy he's unable to get a job for the past
• 16:14
  nine months. And my head, I'm like, what
• 16:17
  happened to entrepreneurship? Why are certain people so
• 16:21
  conditioned in their minds that you have to be on the bygone
• 16:28
  that was greeted by another person?
• 16:31
  Right, right. Yeah.
• 16:32
  Why? Don't you create something for
• 16:33
  yourself with so much experience and expertise?
• 16:37
  Yeah, You know, I, I don't know, I think probably a lot of it is
• 16:40
  how you're raised, you know, and I mean, education's a big part
• 16:47
  of it. I think most people are told get
• 16:50
  a good education, get a good job, go on to management, try to
• 16:55
  move up the corporate ladder. And I had no interest in doing
• 16:58
  any of that. Like I saw those people that
• 17:01
  were 50 and 60 and had worked their asses off for these
• 17:05
  companies and then all of a sudden they're gone and they
• 17:08
  can't get another job right or whatever.
• 17:10
  And I remember thinking, I do not want to be that person.
• 17:14
  I don't want to be that person who's 5560, you know, maybe 10
• 17:20
  years away from retirement, can't get another job or
• 17:22
  whatever. I had no interest in doing that.
• 17:24
  And then it was a matter of, OK, how, how do I make it happen?
• 17:29
  And so when I saw that market opportunity, I took it.
• 17:31
  But I think you know, you're either working on your dream or
• 17:34
  you're you're working to help someone else achieve their
• 17:37
  dream. Right.
• 17:39
  For me, I was like, I know how it our work.
• 17:41
  I know how talented I I was and AM and the things that I'm good
• 17:45
  at. I'm not great at everything, but
• 17:46
  some things I'm very good at. And I was like, I rather, you
• 17:49
  know, see the rewards of that. I don't mean you were talking
• 17:51
  about reaping. You reap what you sow I'd rather
• 17:55
  reap those rewards that I've sowed and not someone else reap
• 17:58
  those rewards. And there's a trade off to that.
• 18:00
  Of course, it's hard, you know, there's a lot of challenges of
• 18:04
  running a company, but it's absolutely worth it.
• 18:06
  And it's really comes down to knowing yourself and your own
• 18:09
  personality, right? That some people, they want a
• 18:12
  place to be, go somewhere and be told what to do every day.
• 18:15
  And there's nothing wrong with that.
• 18:17
  That's not me, it's not you. But there are people like that.
• 18:21
  I think they're crazy personally, but hey, to each
• 18:24
  their own. And I don't know how they were
• 18:26
  raised. I don't know anything about
• 18:28
  them. And and that's also like why I
• 18:30
  don't take people's opinions like you were talking about,
• 18:32
  like they don't know me. I don't know them, they don't
• 18:35
  know me. You go, do you?
• 18:36
  I'm not going to worry about you.
• 18:37
  But yeah, I think it's a lot of it's conditioning, a lot of it's
• 18:42
  people being told that's the safe route and they believe it.
• 18:45
  And for me, it just, I don't know.
• 18:47
  I've always been kind of rebellious and contrarian, but I
• 18:50
  had no interest in doing that. The interesting part is that
• 18:55
  they also think you're crazy. So yeah, right is crazy.
• 19:00
  Yeah, well, I think we're all crazy, everyone.
• 19:03
  We're just now we're human beings.
• 19:05
  We're just totally flawed running around.
• 19:08
  We're all trying to figure it out.
• 19:09
  And you're on this, you know, plan it for such a short period
• 19:12
  of time. It's like, why not go after your
• 19:15
  dreams? Why not see what you're capable
• 19:17
  of? You know, it's like I talk about
• 19:19
  my book. There's the whole Maslow
• 19:20
  hierarchy of needs right in the top of the pyramid.
• 19:23
  It's self actualization. Like it's innate us to want to
• 19:28
  know what we can actually achieve.
• 19:30
  If you're at a corporate America, you don't know that
• 19:32
  you're not going to get every opportunity you want to be.
• 19:35
  There's only one person is going to be the CEO who's going to be
• 19:38
  at the top of that pyramid. And you know, you a lot of times
• 19:41
  you don't know what you're capable of when you're when
• 19:44
  you're an entrepreneur, you find out what you're capable.
• 19:46
  Of real quick you. Know, like all of a sudden, you
• 19:53
  know, you thought a podcast two years ago, now you're in the top
• 19:56
  3%, right? So you're finding out.
• 19:59
  You're finding out. You find it out like and I like
• 20:02
  that song. If you are what you see you are.
• 20:06
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I love that song.
• 20:09
  Like if you are what you say you are, Yeah.
• 20:13
  That that. Yeah.
• 20:15
  Entrepreneurship is Oh yeah, prove.
• 20:17
  It that's yeah, prove it. Because Oh yeah, prove a job
• 20:20
  there is. Because the market, the market
• 20:22
  speaks man, you know the market always wins.
• 20:26
  Yeah. And of course, speaking to what
• 20:28
  you say about the market speaks I when I advise people,
• 20:31
  especially upcoming entrepreneurs like myself, I
• 20:36
  tell them you don't sell what you want to sell, you sell what
• 20:39
  the market wants to buy. It's simple.
• 20:41
  Market forces demand and supply, right?
• 20:45
  I've been sales my whole my whole career.
• 20:47
  You I never sold anyone anything.
• 20:49
  You know, I always understood what they were trying to
• 20:53
  accomplish and then figure out whatever I could do to help
• 20:56
  them, you know, whatever products I had, whatever
• 20:58
  services I had. But you're not going to like if
• 21:00
  someone doesn't want, you know, a Droid phone over an iPhone,
• 21:04
  you're not going to convince them or it's very unlikely or
• 21:07
  it's not worth the effort. It's better to understand that
• 21:11
  person, their situation and and then try position whatever you
• 21:15
  have to help them that that's all sales is and and same with
• 21:19
  the market, right? You're either increasing
• 21:21
  pleasure or you're decreasing pain.
• 21:23
  That's what every product is. It really is.
• 21:25
  It's that simple. So go find people's pains and
• 21:28
  decrease them and in problems and solve them, and you'll find
• 21:32
  what they like doing and enhance that experience and you'll still
• 21:36
  sell. Yeah, exactly.
• 21:38
  You know, you need to speak to people's pain points, right?
• 21:41
  And somehow lengths in economics, you know, from first
• 21:45
  degree this money is a store value.
• 21:49
  And if money is a store value, it means people will give it to
• 21:53
  people who offer them perceived value.
• 21:58
  Yeah. So as long as you master the art
• 22:03
  of creating value, you will definitely get money.
• 22:07
  And you know, people don't like to be sold to.
• 22:10
  People like to buy to meet their needs 100.
• 22:14
  Percent. Right.
• 22:16
  So if you are telling somebody what they don't want or they
• 22:19
  don't need, they sticky like why, why are you pushing it?
• 22:23
  You're you're pushing your lock. Yeah.
• 22:26
  No, that's exactly right. That's it.
• 22:28
  That probably is, yeah. But you know, you actually build
• 22:32
  control like without, you know, the whole experience in tech,
• 22:40
  right? And leadership actually, you
• 22:45
  know, comes or would I say improves over time with
• 22:49
  experience, right? And of course you, you never had
• 22:52
  managed anyone before finding that company.
• 22:55
  So what were like some of the hottest leadership?
• 22:58
  Yeah, you know, I think. Since you learned, you know,
• 23:01
  yeah, you know, trial and error. Yeah, yeah, a lot of trial and
• 23:05
  error for sure. I mean, a lot of it in the
• 23:06
  beginning was, you know, I'd never manage anyone.
• 23:09
  We grew really fast. I had 10 employees by the end of
• 23:11
  year 1. And I don't know, because I
• 23:15
  didn't have a lot of experience managing people.
• 23:17
  I just always thought people were like me and I worked a lot.
• 23:21
  I was hard. I was hard.
• 23:24
  Yeah, I, I was a hard worker. I took things very serious.
• 23:27
  I had attention to detail. And I remember a couple people
• 23:31
  that came in early and they were not like that.
• 23:33
  And I would bark at them. I'd be like, what are you doing?
• 23:35
  Yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You got to do this, that and
• 23:37
  whatever. And I'm like.
• 23:39
  And then I remember meeting with my mentor and I was like, you
• 23:42
  know, I feel like I don't even want to hire people because I
• 23:44
  can just do it better. And he was like, of course you
• 23:47
  can do it better. But and you're going to care
• 23:49
  more about your business, but you have to figure out the stuff
• 23:50
  that you're not any good at and then outsource it to those folks
• 23:54
  and then let them be, let them figure out they're not going to
• 23:56
  be like you. And that's OK because there's
• 23:58
  probably a lot of things you were not good at either.
• 23:59
  So I think the biggest thing was trying to hire for need and
• 24:07
  realised that I had to give them autonomy and that's what I
• 24:11
  wanted to write. I the the best bosses I ever had
• 24:13
  were kind of let me do my own thing.
• 24:15
  But I think it was the, the, the error in the beginning was
• 24:18
  trying to fit them to do things like I did things versus how
• 24:22
  they did things. And then how I got better at it
• 24:25
  was just, you know, a finding really good talent that helps
• 24:28
  because then I don't worry about telling them what to do because
• 24:30
  they already know what to do. So I always kind of found a plus
• 24:34
  talent paid them well versus trying to coach up people.
• 24:37
  I was found people experience. That was something that worked
• 24:40
  for me. And, you know, just really
• 24:42
  trying to see it from their perspective, you know, not being
• 24:44
  so reactive, trying to listen more instead of talking.
• 24:48
  That was a lot of the things I learned with with folks and and
• 24:51
  giving them space and, you know, giving them opportunity.
• 24:54
  So that those are the big things is just, you know, not forcing
• 24:57
  them to do things the way I wanted them done.
• 24:59
  Let them figure it out on their own, but measure the results
• 25:02
  more than the process. I love the way you talk about
• 25:06
  hiring A+ talent, but there's something that I like to say,
• 25:12
  and I think I said this on the podcast before, it's gonna have
• 25:17
  talent, right? But hard work beats talent when
• 25:23
  talent does not work hard. 100% and.
• 25:25
  I have a problem with when I say, coping with or trying to
• 25:31
  teach people the right attitude. I don't know, I'm a young
• 25:36
  entrepreneur myself, right? But I think it's quite difficult
• 25:41
  or maybe almost impossible teaching people the right
• 25:44
  attitude, right? Because how do you teach a
• 25:48
  person to be hungry? How do you teach a person to be
• 25:52
  determined? How do you teach a person to be
• 25:55
  ambitious? How do you teach a person to go
• 25:58
  above and beyond, right? You can give a person a task,
• 26:02
  right? Give them a deadline and they
• 26:04
  might come to you and just to trust enough, right?
• 26:08
  How do you teach them the fact that you need to consciously,
• 26:14
  actively find ways to become more efficient at whatever it is
• 26:18
  that you do? How do you teach them that you
• 26:22
  have to be innovative, right? And, you know, keep up with
• 26:30
  current trends, right? And of course, you know, in the
• 26:32
  tech industry, you can attest this.
• 26:34
  Sometimes you you're working on a particular research and
• 26:37
  another company has done that research and has put that
• 26:40
  product in the market. And whatever you're working on
• 26:43
  becomes sort of obsolete. And you need to probably have an
• 26:46
  add on to that service or that product line in order to make it
• 26:49
  relevant, right? How do you teach people
• 26:52
  attitude? For me, yeah, I think I struggle
• 26:56
  with that, but I'd like to. Yeah, I don't.
• 26:59
  I don't know that you do. I mean, I think you struggle
• 27:01
  with it because I don't know that you do.
• 27:03
  I think it's more about finding people that already have it and
• 27:07
  that is in your interview process.
• 27:08
  You know, I mean, we used to have a saying that if we have to
• 27:12
  manage you, we're going to manage you out of the
• 27:14
  organisation, meaning you want to find leaders, right?
• 27:18
  You want to find people with that hunger, you want to find
• 27:21
  people with that determination and that grid.
• 27:23
  And I don't know that is something that you can teach
• 27:25
  them you they can observe someone doing it.
• 27:29
  But when you're in a company, especially like ours is a, you
• 27:31
  know, fast growing tech company, we didn't have a lot of time to
• 27:35
  be teaching people. We, we needed people that
• 27:37
  already knew and bring them in and then give them opportunity.
• 27:42
  But I've, I'll tell you one thing that just made me think of
• 27:44
  that is, you know, I, the company that I was from EMC and
• 27:49
  I know a lot of companies and, and the tech space do this is
• 27:52
  they would look and I did one of your other guests talk about
• 27:55
  this the the Flickr guy or clicker, Sorry, I can't remember
• 27:59
  the name of his company. Sun Tepper a tiker.
• 28:01
  Yeah, yeah. But he thought about this.
• 28:03
  But it's about athletes, you know, finding athletes and a lot
• 28:07
  of athletes and have a lot of those attributes already.
• 28:10
  So like one of my first questions, when I was being
• 28:12
  recruited to go work for this company called EMC, they were
• 28:14
  like, what high school sports did you play?
• 28:16
  I was like, I was not expecting that.
• 28:18
  You know, I was like, huh. And and I did play high school
• 28:22
  sports. So I talked about that.
• 28:24
  And but it's because those people that played those sports,
• 28:28
  they usually are hungry, they are competitive, they have a lot
• 28:33
  of that attitude, you know, properties that you want, right.
• 28:38
  And those things get, do get instilled as a kid through
• 28:42
  sports. So it is kind of a little bit of
• 28:44
  a hack to say, do you have some of these things?
• 28:47
  Not everyone probably played sports has those things.
• 28:50
  But I talked about it in my book.
• 28:52
  I would ask, how competitive are you?
• 28:54
  That was one of my favourite question.
• 28:57
  And if they would smile before they even were saying anything,
• 29:00
  I knew I was going to hire them because they're like, Oh yeah.
• 29:07
  So are you going to hire me now? Because I was smiling when
• 29:10
  you're saying that. Now, but like some people like
• 29:14
  get scared. They're like, oh.
• 29:15
  Shit, how do I? Start writing for my language.
• 29:17
  But Oh no, how do I answer this versus if they are competitive,
• 29:21
  they're like, all right, let's go, you know, and, and most
• 29:25
  people are competitive, obviously at least anyone's
• 29:28
  achieved anything in their life. But that that was a good hack to
• 29:32
  finding those that are already like have that attitude versus,
• 29:35
  like you said, teaching them. I don't know how you teach them.
• 29:37
  I mean, I would tell them to go read a bunch of books that
• 29:40
  helped me along my way. And you know, there's a bunch of
• 29:43
  podcasts are things you can do, but you've got to, you know, I,
• 29:47
  I'm not going to hire someone that I have to teach attitude.
• 29:49
  They better have it. And you know, the sad part is
• 29:54
  this right before I get to the sad part, I've tried that
• 29:59
  approach, you know, even that certain book, certain materials,
• 30:03
  okay, go read this or read that. They don't add really anything.
• 30:06
  Wait. Yeah.
• 30:08
  No, no, totally. It's like you wish your tag.
• 30:12
  Yeah, no, unless, no, it's kind of funny because I, I actually
• 30:17
  forced my my new employees to read one book.
• 30:19
  There was one book I forced them to read and I just did it with
• 30:22
  my daughter too. And she was like, I don't, you
• 30:25
  know, she's going to college. She didn't really want to read
• 30:27
  this book. I'm like, well, if you don't
• 30:29
  read it, I'm not paying for tuition, so you better read the
• 30:32
  damn book. But it is, you know, it's
• 30:35
  whatever. It's how to win friends and
• 30:36
  influence people. It's my favourite book and and
• 30:39
  that. Was a great that was the first
• 30:41
  book I bought with my own money. Really.
• 30:47
  Oh yeah, Dale Carnegie. That's my favourite book of all
• 30:49
  time. And the art of public speaking,
• 30:51
  Yeah. Yeah, I have both of those.
• 30:53
  I actually have like I can pull it up at some point.
• 30:56
  It's over there, but I've got like a fourth edition copy of
• 30:59
  that book like from the sitting on my desk right over there.
• 31:03
  But I love that book. And but anyways, that is a when
• 31:06
  you own your own company, you can force them to do some
• 31:08
  things. And that was the one that was
• 31:12
  the one book I would, and this is for younger employees.
• 31:14
  This wasn't like, you know, someone's coming and later in
• 31:17
  the career. I'm not forcing anyone, but I
• 31:19
  had a couple, we we did decide at some point to hire some kind
• 31:21
  of junior engineers and and they didn't have the best people
• 31:25
  skills. I could just tell.
• 31:26
  And I'm like, you got to read this book.
• 31:27
  So and they all, you know, I don't know if they're be asking
• 31:29
  me, but they all seem to say like, hey, thank you for making
• 31:32
  that. That actually was helpful.
• 31:33
  I get it, you know, da, da, da, da.
• 31:34
  So. But anyways, yeah, so you're
• 31:37
  right not as they won't read it. And it's, it's not like you're
• 31:41
  wasting your time. So I'll figure something out.
• 31:44
  I'll figure something out. But you know, the sad part is,
• 31:46
  you know, when you have those ones, you know, with the right
• 31:49
  attitude and with the right talent, the turnover is very
• 31:53
  high. The need for better
• 31:54
  opportunities is very fast. How, how?
• 31:57
  How do you do? Well, you have, well, you know,
• 32:00
  we actually did a pretty good job of keeping our talent.
• 32:02
  I mean, a, an easy way to do is pay him more than the market's
• 32:06
  paying. That's one of the things that I
• 32:08
  did. I was like, you know, I I would
• 32:11
  rather hire less people and pay them more than the opposite.
• 32:16
  So, you know, a lot of people in the running business, they want
• 32:19
  to say, Oh, I have this many hundreds employees.
• 32:21
  Like I didn't care. I'm like, I want to keep it as
• 32:22
  small as possible, but I want to really, really good people.
• 32:26
  So I would poach people from like sometimes our customers and
• 32:31
  you know, they'd be making, I'll just, you know, say some rough
• 32:34
  numbers making $100,000 to some corporate job.
• 32:36
  I'd say I'm going to pay you 130.
• 32:38
  And you know, they would come in and they would get other
• 32:41
  benefits and I would like, hey, I don't care.
• 32:43
  I'll pay above market rate because we were moving fast.
• 32:48
  We needed experts. I, I knew when I found the right
• 32:51
  people, I was willing to pay them.
• 32:52
  So that helps, you know, we didn't lose a lot of people.
• 32:56
  We would then give them structures and incentives that
• 32:59
  were aligned with the company goals for them to make more
• 33:02
  money to no matter what their role was.
• 33:04
  But yeah, you know, you're always going to have people
• 33:06
  poaching talent. But if you give them upside
• 33:09
  like, you know, stock options, things of that nature, when
• 33:12
  you're an entrepreneur, you can give them, there's creative
• 33:14
  things you can do being the boss and being entrepreneur to kind
• 33:17
  of keep people around. Yeah, I feel like that equity
• 33:22
  stake actually has a big way of motivating people.
• 33:26
  Yeah, the golden handcuffs. Correct.
• 33:28
  The golden handcuffs. Yeah.
• 33:30
  That that's that's a treat. That's a very, very fantastic
• 33:34
  trick around keeping these people.
• 33:37
  So. But then, you know, you had zero
• 33:40
  accounting background and you educated yourself and worked
• 33:44
  with accountants. So what's the most important
• 33:47
  financial principle you think every founder should master Very
• 33:51
  early? Yeah, You know, I, that was the
• 33:53
  thing I was more intimidated by when I started my company is
• 33:56
  because, you know, I did like my family personal accounting and I
• 34:00
  talked about this in my book too, but it's like I, I was
• 34:03
  like, man, I don't know anything about accountants.
• 34:05
  I, you know, accounting. I don't, I've never, you know,
• 34:09
  done a general Ledger or anything.
• 34:10
  So I read a tonne of books. All of them are kind of boring,
• 34:15
  you know, but I like accounting one O 1 books and then and you
• 34:19
  know, I talked about it. I, I really recommend people
• 34:22
  outsource that function. I know that's something that you
• 34:25
  do right? You're a fractional CFL, but for
• 34:28
  real. Bring them my way.
• 34:30
  My company would do that. It's.
• 34:31
  Great. Well, that's actually my advice
• 34:33
  in the book is get a fractional CFO.
• 34:36
  And if you don't know it, like I didn't know, I didn't care to
• 34:39
  know it. I wanted to know it to be
• 34:41
  informed and to have good dialogue, but like I didn't want
• 34:45
  to be an accountant at all. And it was like one of my
• 34:48
  weaknesses. And so I hired a a fractional
• 34:52
  CFO outsource, you know, small consulting company.
• 34:55
  The guy was amazing. He taught me a tonne.
• 34:57
  And then I would say, you know, you got to understand the P and
• 35:00
  LS. The biggest thing, you know, in
• 35:02
  my opinion, for a young entrepreneur and and keep costs
• 35:06
  down and you know, it's not necessarily an accounting
• 35:08
  principle. What?
• 35:08
  I would just keep costs down solo.
• 35:12
  You know, I didn't take a salary myself.
• 35:14
  I didn't bring out a full time kind of W2 employee until like 8
• 35:17
  months in and I was just paying people's contractors.
• 35:20
  You know, I waited too long to hire people, but it helped me
• 35:24
  sleep at night. And then at the end, especially
• 35:27
  if you're looking to sell your company, you really got to
• 35:29
  understand GAP principles. That was not something I
• 35:32
  understood. I learned real quick, you know,
• 35:35
  I went through the cold quality of earnings thing with selling
• 35:38
  the company and it's a bunch of really smart accountants in the
• 35:40
  room and I'm like, I'm just going to shut up and let my
• 35:42
  fractional CFO do his work. But you know, I, I would say
• 35:46
  this with accounting, for those of you out there listening that
• 35:48
  are like me and didn't have a lot of accounting experience,
• 35:51
  it's scary. Like accounting and law.
• 35:53
  Those are two of the scarier things with selling, with
• 35:56
  running a company, outsource them, you know, and you'll
• 36:00
  figure it out. It's not that complicated.
• 36:02
  It's just like a different language, you know, you got to
• 36:05
  learn, learn how it works. But really at the end of the
• 36:07
  day, a business really just money coming in, money going
• 36:09
  out. So it's not that more
• 36:12
  complicated. And so just making sure that you
• 36:16
  can control what you can control in the beginning, that's money
• 36:18
  going out. You can control how much money
• 36:21
  is going out in the organisation.
• 36:22
  You can't always control how much is coming in.
• 36:24
  So that's what I would say from accounting principles
• 36:26
  perspective. Why you just said I'm gonna
• 36:30
  summarise it. Revenue is vanity, profit is
• 36:33
  sanity, and cash is king, if you wish.
• 36:36
  Cash is reality. You know, profit says that
• 36:40
  you're winning in the game of business.
• 36:44
  That's right. And cash flows determines how
• 36:46
  long you can stay the business. That's right.
• 36:49
  So make with that information whatever you wish to make with
• 36:52
  it. So you're actually successfully
• 36:55
  transitioned, you know, from project based services to
• 36:59
  subscription model. I love subscription model
• 37:02
  revenue a lot though. And of course you use Caraca to
• 37:05
  the growth. So can you walk us through how
• 37:09
  that came about and what was the impact?
• 37:13
  Yeah. You know, I think it was like
• 37:14
  year 4 or five. I was, you know, we've gotten a
• 37:18
  lot of interest from companies investing in US and even
• 37:23
  potentially purchasing the company.
• 37:25
  And I, you know, was trying to understand that whole game,
• 37:31
  right? Like if you sell the company and
• 37:33
  I really learned a lot about you know, so any Long story short, I
• 37:37
  made the Inc 5000, my company makes the Inc 5000.
• 37:39
  I talked to a couple private equity companies and venture
• 37:41
  capitalists and they all were really honing in on the amount
• 37:44
  of recurring revenue that we had.
• 37:47
  And I had a decent sense of it, but a lot of our stuff was
• 37:50
  products. So like an example, you know, a
• 37:52
  customer has a new software system that in their environment
• 37:55
  they want us to configure out, we'd say, hey, it's $15,000, we
• 37:59
  go in there, we get it done in a week and then we're gone.
• 38:02
  And then they pay us and then maybe they'll call us later on
• 38:05
  if they have problems or we would try to outsell them other
• 38:08
  stuff. But that's, that's it, right?
• 38:09
  It's one and done versus when I learned more about the
• 38:12
  reoccurring revenue subscription model, I was like, you know, a,
• 38:16
  not only does it make it you more valuable from a, you know,
• 38:20
  selling the company, but it makes you a lot more valuable to
• 38:22
  the customer if you've got something that you can annually
• 38:24
  provide to them. So I just sat down and thought
• 38:27
  through, OK, how can I actually turn these projects and these
• 38:31
  other things that we were doing into, you know, annual
• 38:35
  contracts? So I kind of made it a no
• 38:38
  brainer in the beginning and just said, look, you know, that
• 38:41
  same customer, right, $15,000. I'd say, look, we're going to
• 38:45
  give you a managed service for the same price, $15,000.
• 38:48
  We're going to come in, we're going to do the install and then
• 38:51
  for the next 10 months, you're going to have support from us
• 38:54
  and we're going to get in the environment.
• 38:55
  We're going to proactively take care of the software.
• 38:58
  And you know, they'd be like, what's the catch?
• 39:00
  You know, do I got to sign up for multiple years?
• 39:02
  I'm like, Nope, there's no catch.
• 39:03
  I just I'm that confident that you want to re up on the service
• 39:07
  in a year from now and it's the same price.
• 39:10
  You get, you know, option A is you get work for us for two
• 39:12
  weeks and we're gone. Option B is you get to our first
• 39:15
  of the whole year. And you know, we were taking
• 39:17
  some risks doing that. And like me and you talk before
• 39:20
  we jump on, sometimes you got to do stuff for free.
• 39:22
  And I would say like 95% of the customers would sign up for it.
• 39:27
  They're like, yeah, that sounds like a no brainer.
• 39:29
  And then 75% of those customers in year 2 would re up because we
• 39:34
  would go above and beyond for these customers.
• 39:36
  We would take care of stuff. We got to know them.
• 39:38
  We're in their environment doing stuff and they were like, you
• 39:41
  know what, I don't want to deal with this crap anymore.
• 39:43
  I'll let you guys deal with that.
• 39:44
  And then it was just like stacking those customers up.
• 39:48
  And then instead of, you know, January 1, we're going, what the
• 39:51
  hell are we going to sell this year?
• 39:53
  Now we're like, hey, we already got twenty of those customers.
• 39:56
  All we got to do is keep them and then add them.
• 39:59
  And we can still do those projects if we want to.
• 40:01
  We could do other things. So, you know, for me it was
• 40:04
  like, this is a no brainer. Why did I not do this sooner?
• 40:08
  And it all started with, I read a book called Built to Sell by
• 40:11
  John Warlow and he talked a lot about it and that, and that was
• 40:14
  more about, hey, this is how you make your, your company more
• 40:16
  valuable. But I was like, man, I, this is
• 40:19
  making the company easier to run.
• 40:20
  So anyways, that's why we did it and it worked.
• 40:23
  By the time we sold the company about two years later for the
• 40:26
  first time, about 75% of our revenue was recurring versus 40%
• 40:31
  two years prior. So which gave us a great
• 40:34
  multiple on the on the actual sale.
• 40:38
  You know it it, it's beautiful when you have that recurrent
• 40:40
  revenue, especially by way of a subscription model about, you
• 40:44
  know, in terms of scaling up right?
• 40:47
  It, it, it makes it easier as well, right, because you have
• 40:50
  that multiplier effect course having multiple customers that
• 40:59
  you can service at the same time, right.
• 41:01
  And of course, you're keeping up cost as low as possible, but
• 41:06
  another strategy that a lot of consulting or service
• 41:10
  professional services that companies or firms use is
• 41:13
  upselling. So were you guys able to upsell
• 41:17
  any of your, would I say food or?
• 41:22
  Other service, yeah, because we have software products too.
• 41:24
  Yeah, I mean, the beauty of it is when you have a recurring
• 41:28
  model and this was more of a managed service, right?
• 41:30
  This was a service. We actually had a software
• 41:32
  product that we did as well. So we, we would use that managed
• 41:36
  service. That's usually how we would get
• 41:38
  introduced was through this managed service.
• 41:40
  And it was around technologies like Microsoft and, and other,
• 41:44
  other companies. And we would get in there and
• 41:47
  they're thinking there's going to sign up for a project with
• 41:49
  us. They actually sign up for a
• 41:50
  man's service. And then, you know, my team
• 41:52
  would get to know them, you know, and in this space, we're
• 41:56
  taking care of a software that is associated with like, you
• 41:59
  know, legal services and, and these lawsuits.
• 42:04
  So when then three months later a big lawsuit hits, we're
• 42:09
  already managing the software for them.
• 42:11
  They have a relationship with the, with my, with my, my
• 42:13
  engineer. And they'd say, oh man, I got to
• 42:16
  be all weekend doing these searches, running this for the
• 42:19
  lawyers. He would say, you know, we do
• 42:22
  that as well. And they'd say, oh really?
• 42:25
  So then that was another service line that we had that that was,
• 42:28
  you know, they could work with our team and we had lawyers and
• 42:31
  they could actually go in and do the searches.
• 42:33
  And then we would understand about the type of litigation
• 42:36
  they would have in the industry that they were in.
• 42:38
  And then we had our own software that we built to help them
• 42:40
  manage their data proactively. So the next time that this
• 42:44
  happens, we can help them as well.
• 42:46
  So it was it all kind of started with that one.
• 42:49
  And then there was all these add on services that we could do and
• 42:52
  some of them were projects, some of them were software
• 42:54
  subscriptions, you know with the software subscriptions recurring
• 42:57
  revenue as well. And it was just it just built,
• 43:00
  you know. So now we've got you know, 4050
• 43:04
  of these customers 50 to 100 and that's why our revenue kept
• 43:07
  going up. And then we could manage our
• 43:09
  expenses a lot easier because we knew, OK, going into the year,
• 43:14
  we're going to have 5 million bucks of this recurring revenue,
• 43:17
  OK? You know, we had really good
• 43:20
  metrics on how much work we were actually doing for those
• 43:22
  customers, the profitability. And we're like, OK, we don't
• 43:26
  even need to hire that many more people.
• 43:27
  We can just tweak some of our, you know, tweaks how we're doing
• 43:31
  things. And then profitability starts
• 43:32
  going up and you're like, that's when things get exciting.
• 43:34
  You're like, OK, now the flywheel spinning.
• 43:39
  Yeah, the flywheel, it's very important to be able to like
• 43:43
  recognise the the different elements or the components or
• 43:47
  the flywheel and of course the activates, you know that engine
• 43:51
  at the middle and of course it's just like an automated system.
• 43:56
  I love the SAS system, right? The SAS easiness model, you
• 44:03
  know, pretty much like the the flagwheel.
• 44:06
  But one thing that comes with that fast growth is possible
• 44:11
  burnout. Right now it can be quite
• 44:14
  exhausting. So how did methods like
• 44:18
  meditation therapy help you avoid burnout?
• 44:22
  I'm like what? What's your advice, you know, to
• 44:24
  young founders like myself, you know, about managing residents
• 44:27
  and I'm I'm quite that exhaustion.
• 44:31
  Yeah, I mean, I'm quite passionate about this particular
• 44:33
  subject. I, you know, it was like year 2
• 44:36
  or year three of the company and, and everything was going
• 44:38
  well, right? We're having a lot of success,
• 44:40
  but I'm working a lot. I typically am working like 14
• 44:45
  hour days, you know, and I'm not sleeping a tonne because I've
• 44:49
  got to get, I got to stay up late and I got to get up early
• 44:52
  and you know, things are going, I'm hiring all these people feel
• 44:55
  like we're having a lot of success, but I felt like really
• 44:58
  low energy. I wouldn't say depressed was the
• 45:01
  right word, but just kind of blah.
• 45:04
  And I'm like, man, I got to, I got to do something like I'm
• 45:07
  just constantly kind of running out of energy and I was still
• 45:10
  pretty young and eating well for the most part and exercising.
• 45:13
  And it was like year three of the company I met with my same
• 45:17
  mentor. I kind of talked about and I'm
• 45:19
  like, man, I, I don't know if I can keep doing this.
• 45:21
  Like this is a lot. He's like, you don't want to
• 45:23
  quit. You're tired and you need a
• 45:25
  break. And he's like, you need to go on
• 45:27
  vacation And every vacation I take in a couple years prior, I
• 45:30
  wasn't really, I was working on the vacation.
• 45:32
  My kids were on vacation, my wife's on vacation, but I'm
• 45:34
  working. So I was like, I don't care.
• 45:37
  I'll burn the house down. I'm going on vacation.
• 45:40
  I'm shutting off my e-mail. I'm shutting off everything.
• 45:42
  And I've heard a lot of entrepreneurs talk about
• 45:44
  meditation and specifically transdental meditation.
• 45:48
  And I tried it like the whole lie down on the floor thing.
• 45:52
  And I'm like, I, this is not working for me.
• 45:54
  And, and I was like, you know, I just, my brains racing and I'm
• 45:58
  not calm at all while I'm meditating these things.
• 46:01
  And I, I read something that you've got to, you got to give
• 46:04
  it a week. You've got to do it every single
• 46:06
  day for a week, right? For like 10 minutes, whatever.
• 46:09
  So I'm going on vacation. I'm like, here's a perfect
• 46:11
  opportunity. I would lie down.
• 46:14
  I would like to listen to guided meditation.
• 46:16
  And, you know, it still wasn't great.
• 46:19
  It was like, you know, you're walking in a forest.
• 46:21
  I'm like, OK, it's fine. But it was it, I did feel after
• 46:24
  day three like I'm becoming a little bit more relaxed and
• 46:28
  focused. And then by the end of that
• 46:29
  vacation, we, you know, we full week of it, I'm like, God, I
• 46:32
  feel good. I feel energised.
• 46:34
  Obviously being on vacation was part of it too, and being around
• 46:36
  my family, but I felt really, really good.
• 46:38
  And I was like, all right, I kept doing that.
• 46:41
  But then I wanted to take it to the next level.
• 46:42
  So I learned transit lamentation and doing it for 10 years now
• 46:46
  every day, first thing I do, I wake up 20 minutes.
• 46:49
  I'll probably do it right after this podcast around 3:00 in the
• 46:51
  afternoon. I do it and it's a mantra based,
• 46:55
  you know, meditation and more than anything, it's not like a
• 46:59
  lot of people think of meditation.
• 47:00
  They think, you know, oh, I'm going to be like my, my brains
• 47:04
  going to be empty and I'm like levitating and like, no, that's
• 47:07
  not what it for me. It was getting me.
• 47:11
  It was getting me in touch with what was going on with myself,
• 47:13
  right. So like you're dealing with a
• 47:15
  lot when you're running a business and for me, I'm dealing
• 47:18
  with a hundred, a hundred different things.
• 47:20
  So sometimes I'd be bothered and I would close my mind and I
• 47:24
  meditate and it you real quickly get in touch with yourself,
• 47:29
  right? You're like my brain be going,
• 47:30
  oh, I can't believe that employee did this.
• 47:32
  You know, what a jerk, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
• 47:34
  blah. And I'm like, OK, this is what's
• 47:35
  bothering me and now I need to go address it.
• 47:38
  So that's what really helped with me.
• 47:41
  And then I, it would just give me like energy.
• 47:43
  Like I would, I'd be tired by around 3:00.
• 47:46
  I would meditate. It was like the equivalent of
• 47:48
  taking a nap. You know, you take a good nap,
• 47:50
  you feel good, you feel refreshed.
• 47:52
  And then I'm like, oh, I feel good now.
• 47:54
  And now I can be a better husband when I go home.
• 47:57
  I've got a couple more hours in me with my team and then I can
• 48:01
  have the energy for later on at night.
• 48:03
  But meditation is a huge thing, you know, sleeping.
• 48:06
  I learned to probably, you know, year 4, I really need to start
• 48:09
  focusing on my sleep. That is a much better.
• 48:13
  Yeah. But burnout, you know, vacation
• 48:16
  scheduling time with friends and family.
• 48:18
  Like it's easy to non-stop work and I started scheduling blocks
• 48:22
  of time like 3 hours every night with my family where I'm not
• 48:25
  working. I might think if I might be
• 48:27
  thinking of work every once in awhile, but like you need to do
• 48:30
  those things. And then mental therapist, I
• 48:32
  went and saw, I started seeing a mental therapist deal with the
• 48:34
  stresses of it and. Therapist, I'm really happy you
• 48:38
  talking about these and of course, you know, I, I guess
• 48:40
  this is the right time right now, right?
• 48:42
  Your episode, you are you are a fantastic guest.
• 48:46
  And of course your episode is the episode where we break the
• 48:50
  good news. We are now partnering with the
• 48:55
  world's number one therapy brand and that is better health.
• 49:02
  So what a great time. That's awesome, man.
• 49:05
  Congratulations, partner with us.
• 49:07
  So Better Help is not officially a sponsor of the Key Dips
• 49:10
  podcast. And of course, what a way to say
• 49:12
  we into you talking about mental therapy.
• 49:15
  Yeah, I mean, and I would say, you know, and the nice thing
• 49:17
  about Better Health, as you know, is, is it's an online
• 49:21
  mental health programme, people travelling, etcetera.
• 49:23
  I personally have been seeing, you know, a therapist since
• 49:26
  before the online thing even existed.
• 49:28
  But it's great, right. And, you know, I think sometimes
• 49:34
  entrepreneurs probably put too much on their spouse to kind of
• 49:38
  be like their therapist, like they come.
• 49:40
  Home and untrained, Untrained therapist.
• 49:44
  Right. And you know, they might be
• 49:45
  having a bad day. They might be dealing with like
• 49:47
  my situation, my wife's, the old little kids.
• 49:49
  And it was nice to be able to go talk to someone that doesn't
• 49:52
  know me, that's not judging me, that has is equipped to be able
• 49:57
  to deal with some of these things.
• 49:58
  And I joke like I used to just go and complain, you know, like
• 50:01
  sometimes I didn't really want to talk to anything.
• 50:03
  I just go and complain about my team.
• 50:04
  And then I would leave and I'm like, I feel better.
• 50:06
  Great. It's out of my system.
• 50:08
  So yeah, I'm a huge proponent of therapy.
• 50:10
  Congrats on your your partnership with Better Health
• 50:13
  and that'd be awesome routine. Thank you very much, brother.
• 50:16
  And of course, you know, guys, if you least injure us, therapy
• 50:21
  is something that is very, very resourceful, very helpful for
• 50:25
  you. I'd be grateful to have a better
• 50:27
  help as a sponsor of the King Games broadcast.
• 50:31
  And if you use the if you link that is betterhelp.com/king
• 50:38
  Games, you will actually get a 10% discount on your first month
• 50:43
  of therapy. Therapy is very helpful.
• 50:46
  I cannot under emphasise the the importance of the help that
• 50:52
  therapy actually does. You know, due to once a mental
• 50:57
  health, I've only gone therapy myself.
• 50:58
  I have used better help myself and of course, it is actually
• 51:03
  very helpful. I don't, I don't know what to
• 51:06
  say, but really therapy, a lot of people, especially where I
• 51:11
  come from, find it when I say difficult to have this difficult
• 51:19
  conversations about mental health.
• 51:21
  But if you can see a doctor right, for physical health, why
• 51:27
  can't you see a trained practitioner for your mental
• 51:32
  health? And a good thing about, you
• 51:33
  know, better health is the fact that it's online.
• 51:36
  You don't have to see the therapies face to face.
• 51:40
  Yeah, it's, it's, I would look at it.
• 51:43
  I would look at it as coaching too, right?
• 51:45
  It's, it's not my experience with therapy.
• 51:48
  Being an entrepreneur is not going and talking about all my
• 51:52
  problems of childhood, right, or anything like that.
• 51:54
  People see in movies. It was OK, here's what I'm
• 51:57
  dealing with. You know, how can I balance work
• 52:00
  life? How can I, you know, be a better
• 52:04
  communicator? You know, like it's there's all
• 52:07
  these different tools. And if you're listening this
• 52:09
  podcast, reading books, you're already seeking that
• 52:12
  information. This is someone that you can
• 52:14
  have a personalised one-on-one mentorship and coach with you.
• 52:19
  And you know, the nice thing about things like these online
• 52:22
  tools is you could try a couple different ones, right?
• 52:25
  You don't, you might not jive with the first person you meet,
• 52:29
  which is harder to do in person, right?
• 52:31
  Meet to drive, to meet all these people and figure all that out.
• 52:34
  It's hard, but you can. From the comfort of your phone,
• 52:37
  just just read the therapist right?
• 52:39
  Yeah. And you know, but yeah, I did a
• 52:42
  lot of online therapy during COVID because of course, because
• 52:44
  I had to. And it's great, you know, it's
• 52:47
  it's anyways. But yeah, I agree.
• 52:50
  Thank you very much, brother. So, you know, talking about exit
• 52:55
  strategies, by the way, I do have a particular episode on
• 53:00
  exit strategies. And of course, the guy I spoke
• 53:03
  with talked about that book to to sell.
• 53:06
  So you told your company twice. What are the top two or three
• 53:11
  things entrepreneurs should prepare for if they hope to sell
• 53:15
  their businesses one day? Yeah.
• 53:19
  I mean, you better be prepared to know your numbers really,
• 53:22
  really well. You should be prepared to talk
• 53:24
  about recurring revenue and predictable revenue, right?
• 53:28
  That's what they care about. And I would say understand if
• 53:32
  you go through a process like I did and you know, I met with
• 53:35
  about 10 companies, it's, it's, it's an interesting process.
• 53:39
  It's challenging, it's mentally challenging to go through it it
• 53:43
  for me, I was kind of explaining like your dream is right here,
• 53:45
  right? Like a lot of selling a company
• 53:48
  for a lot of people to dream because financial independence,
• 53:51
  whatever it is, you know, seeing what the company can go and it's
• 53:54
  a roller coaster and you know, like my process is about 100
• 53:58
  days, 120 days. And man, it's like if anyone's
• 54:02
  ever sold a house and you get a home inspection and it's very
• 54:05
  stressful. It's like doing that everyday
• 54:07
  for 120 days and they're going to, you know, it's, it's just,
• 54:11
  it's a process, right? So having a mental therapist, my
• 54:15
  I don't know how I would have gotten selling through my
• 54:17
  company without having my therapist.
• 54:19
  It was very, very stressful, mentally taxing, exciting as
• 54:23
  well and worth it by the way. But just know that you know it.
• 54:26
  That actual process is pretty brutal.
• 54:31
  You know, tough diamonds don't last, but tough people do.
• 54:35
  And the Survivor also like to say that God reserves his
• 54:39
  toughest battles for his toughest soldiers.
• 54:42
  Yeah, there you go. You're a tough one, you know,
• 54:45
  but your book, Let's talk about your book, The Blueprint.
• 54:48
  It aligns seven faces, you know, to start in a successful
• 54:53
  business. So which of these faces do most
• 54:56
  entrepreneurs underestimate? The first one is fear, How to
• 55:03
  get over the fear of actually starting a company.
• 55:06
  I think that was, you know, looking back at my journey, I
• 55:10
  spent a good eight months, you know, kind of really
• 55:13
  contemplating starting the business.
• 55:15
  And like I said, I in the beginning, I, I was leaving a
• 55:17
  high paying job. So that actually made it harder
• 55:19
  in some regards. But that process, I look back
• 55:22
  and like, man, did I expend a lot of energy on that.
• 55:26
  And it's obviously the most important thing because you got
• 55:29
  it. You got to make that first step.
• 55:30
  You got to take that that leap off the off the Cliff, so to
• 55:33
  speak. And then a. 1000 miles begins
• 55:35
  with a step. That's right.
• 55:37
  It's that first step, right? And overcoming that fear.
• 55:40
  And that's, I start off my book talking about it, the exercises
• 55:43
  that I did to get over the fear. That's the number one thing
• 55:46
  because once you do that, I found the rest of it actually
• 55:51
  easier than I expected it to be. I found it easy to be successful
• 55:55
  running the business and making profit.
• 55:58
  And there's a lot of challenges, but man, that first step was
• 56:01
  hard. And so that's why a lot of
• 56:03
  reasons why I wrote the book is I wanted I know how I felt about
• 56:07
  it at the time. I know the things that I did to
• 56:09
  overcome the fear and it without taking that first step in my
• 56:13
  life is like, I can't even believe it.
• 56:15
  It's my life now. You know, I've been retired
• 56:17
  since I'm 45. I get to do whatever I want a
• 56:19
  daily basis. None of that happens without
• 56:22
  that first step. So that's the biggest thing.
• 56:24
  I think people if they're very serious about making it and
• 56:28
  they're leaving a kind of situation like I was, it's it's
• 56:30
  nerve wracking. So how do you get over that?
• 56:32
  That's that's the thing, people under, under.
• 56:34
  That I think you need some therapy to get over that.
• 56:41
  Yeah. It's like about failure.
• 56:42
  Failure and resilience. You know, you're to share a
• 56:46
  moment where you thought things might collapse.
• 56:50
  And of course, maybe heaven might fall.
• 56:53
  The heaven never falls. And how did you turn that
• 56:57
  obstacle into an opportunity? Sure.
• 57:02
  Yeah. You know, in 2015, we, we've
• 57:05
  been kind of running for about, you know, 3-4 years and things
• 57:09
  were really good. And most of our business model
• 57:12
  was, was, you know, building services and products around
• 57:15
  large technology companies and kind of filling in gaps.
• 57:19
  And we had two major partners and both of them got massively
• 57:23
  disrupted in the same year and that massively disrupted us.
• 57:27
  So, you know, we had built our kind of whole company around
• 57:30
  these two technologies. The one company was like selling
• 57:33
  off and going to sell off this technology.
• 57:35
  They didn't care about it anymore.
• 57:37
  The other one was kind of like they were getting acquired as
• 57:41
  well. And it was just all, they were
• 57:43
  very disrupted, which made us very disrupted.
• 57:47
  And I kind of was like, oh, and our sales started going down
• 57:50
  because customers weren't investing these technology,
• 57:52
  weren't sure. And I was like, we've got to
• 57:54
  find another partner. We've got to find a different
• 57:57
  alley because we're not we, we probably could have milked those
• 58:00
  customers and done OK. But you know, I was like, we've
• 58:03
  got to find an opportunity here. And I and Microsoft, it kind of
• 58:07
  just got into our space and I tried to like reach out and find
• 58:11
  out what they were doing, but it was very kind of closed off
• 58:13
  group. And I just threw persistence and
• 58:16
  resilience. I was like that Microsoft is
• 58:17
  going to change this industry. And I just non-stop all day for
• 58:21
  months figured out any angle I could to try to get a meeting
• 58:24
  with Microsoft. And I was flying to New York on
• 58:27
  the maybe the promise of meeting for with someone which that
• 58:31
  didn't even happen, just to try to get any angle that I could.
• 58:35
  And finally got a meeting just through pure persistence and
• 58:38
  resilience and made the pitch about why we should be entered
• 58:42
  into this programme that Microsoft had kind of closed off
• 58:45
  and got us into that programme. And, you know, and we didn't
• 58:49
  know a lot about their technologies.
• 58:50
  We didn't, my team was very sceptical, but we got in there
• 58:54
  and then we just, you know, took off and then that that part of
• 58:57
  the business became our most profitable, our largest part of
• 59:01
  the business. Now the company's still running
• 59:02
  even though I left and you know, I sold the company, it's like
• 59:05
  90% of revenue. And if I wouldn't have just
• 59:09
  stubbornly non-stop work to get in this Microsoft programme, the
• 59:13
  company would would have gone under, I'm sure, or, or
• 59:16
  certainly would have been what it became.
• 59:18
  So, you know, sometimes when these things, you know, doors
• 59:22
  close, the window opens kind of thing, that's the way I looked
• 59:25
  at it and it's scary. Well, you just got to do it,
• 59:28
  right. It's, it's sometimes it's almost
• 59:30
  about survival. And it wound up being the
• 59:32
  greatest thing for us. And at the time, it did not feel
• 59:34
  like a great thing, you know, that these companies were kind
• 59:37
  of going away. It was not a good feeling at
• 59:40
  all. But you know, here's this new,
• 59:42
  this new company and that we just took off with them and we
• 59:45
  got off to an early start. And that's why companies wanted
• 59:47
  to buy us. They wanted to get into the
• 59:48
  Microsoft space and we were the leaders.
• 59:50
  So anyways, but yeah, it's it's those things and you can't
• 59:53
  control it. So all you can control is what
• 59:57
  you do about it. You cannot control what happened
• 1:00:01
  outside of you where you can control what happens inside of
• 1:00:04
  you. And I love the way you
• 1:00:06
  structured it really beautifully wet.
• 1:00:08
  One door closes. It's it's the opportunity for
• 1:00:11
  another door to to open each of these as human beings, it never
• 1:00:16
  makes sense to us in real time. It never makes sense to us in
• 1:00:21
  real time, but, you know, down the line, you know, after some
• 1:00:27
  months or years and then you get back and you're grateful because
• 1:00:32
  to myself, I'm always grateful that setting opportunities that
• 1:00:37
  I really wanted very, very badly did not come my way because I
• 1:00:42
  ended up, you know, harnessing bigger and better opportunities.
• 1:00:46
  Yeah, I mean that. And everyone has that, right.
• 1:00:49
  You can look back at your life, whether it be a relationship,
• 1:00:51
  whatever, be whatever, you know, and everyone has those moments
• 1:00:54
  in their life where they can look back and say, man, at the
• 1:00:57
  time I was pissed. I didn't get that.
• 1:00:59
  But it wound up being the best thing for you.
• 1:01:00
  And it doesn't, like you said, it doesn't feel great at the
• 1:01:03
  time, but, you know, draw, draw on those past experiences
• 1:01:07
  because, yeah, you never know. You just never know.
• 1:01:13
  You'd never know, you know, you talked about the Maslow's
• 1:01:17
  Hercule weeds right there. And of course, like I told you
• 1:01:20
  very early in life, I was exposed to reading books on
• 1:01:24
  psychology and philosophy. That is, you know, one of my
• 1:01:28
  favourite psychology models because it, it really much, you
• 1:01:31
  know, articulates human desires very to a high level of
• 1:01:40
  precision and, and accuracy. And when I look at that
• 1:01:43
  triangle, I think you, you're actually right up there trying
• 1:01:47
  to get that self actualization. So when I look at you, you're
• 1:01:51
  tired. And of course, now you're
• 1:01:52
  exploring publishing and even film production.
• 1:01:56
  So how important is it for entrepreneurs to pursue
• 1:02:00
  creativity? Passion.
• 1:02:02
  Projects, yeah. I think outside of business.
• 1:02:05
  I think it's great. I mean, you know, for me, I
• 1:02:08
  started the company because I want to be able to control my
• 1:02:10
  future a little bit of control free.
• 1:02:13
  And so I put myself in that position.
• 1:02:16
  So I was, you know, 45 years old and here I am retired and, and I
• 1:02:20
  had all these dreams and, and ambitions as a kid, right.
• 1:02:23
  And I think a lot of it's like going back to what you want to
• 1:02:26
  do as a kid. I always wanted to write a book.
• 1:02:28
  I always wanted to make a comedy movie.
• 1:02:31
  I wanted to be able to do whatever I wanted to do when I
• 1:02:33
  was older and I'm like, I'm going to go do those things like
• 1:02:36
  now I have I worked really hard. I took some risks, you know, had
• 1:02:41
  this with a lot of value for our customers that turn into value
• 1:02:44
  for me. And now I'm going to go do these
• 1:02:46
  things and it it is those that Maxwell hierarchy needs, right?
• 1:02:50
  It's like I felt like I could write a really good book and the
• 1:02:53
  market right now is telling me that that's what I did.
• 1:02:56
  And I felt like I could really make a funny movie and I'm still
• 1:03:00
  working on it. But I feel like that's what the
• 1:03:02
  market will think and it's that self actualization, right?
• 1:03:04
  Like I felt like I could run a successful business.
• 1:03:07
  I did, right. So it's like I felt these
• 1:03:10
  things, I've actualized them. And when you build, when you
• 1:03:13
  have success in one thing, it builds another's right.
• 1:03:15
  Like a lot of people were like a lot of people were like, oh man,
• 1:03:18
  what if you write this book and it bombs?
• 1:03:20
  You know, you're going to be so embarrassed.
• 1:03:22
  I'm like, you know, people said that to me.
• 1:03:23
  And I'm like, I don't, I don't think it's going to bomb because
• 1:03:27
  I, I know I read a lot of business books, blah, blah,
• 1:03:29
  blah. Same thing with this movie.
• 1:03:30
  Like, man, what if it sucks? I'm like, I'm not worried.
• 1:03:33
  About it, If it sucks, I'll do a sequel.
• 1:03:36
  Yeah, I love that. That's funny.
• 1:03:40
  You know that's what I always tell people, right?
• 1:03:43
  Even if it feels I just found another way.
• 1:03:45
  We things don't work, I will keep going.
• 1:03:47
  You can't stop. Yeah, and it's all right.
• 1:03:48
  A lot of these things I'm doing for myself, like the book I
• 1:03:50
  wrote for myself, like I wrote it for the kid that was 32 years
• 1:03:54
  old going through that, right? Like what was helpful for me in
• 1:03:56
  the same thing with this movie, I'm like I'm making it for
• 1:03:58
  myself. It's a passion project.
• 1:03:59
  So I think it's important for entrepreneurs to scratch those
• 1:04:02
  creative itches because in general I have found, I know
• 1:04:05
  hundreds of entrepreneurs, they're all very pretty
• 1:04:08
  creative, right? You get in, be running a
• 1:04:11
  business is a very creative endeavour.
• 1:04:13
  And so I have found that most of them have a lot of interest
• 1:04:18
  outside of, you know, just being running a business, right.
• 1:04:22
  And you know, being being an entrepreneur is a very creative
• 1:04:26
  process. Like you're creating products,
• 1:04:27
  literally, you're bringing on people.
• 1:04:29
  You're, you're do, you're, you're creating.
• 1:04:31
  So I think naturally for any entrepreneur to have those other
• 1:04:36
  interests is important. I don't think I probably need
• 1:04:39
  even say it that much because I bet they're doing it already.
• 1:04:42
  Like, I'm sure you have creative interests that you do, you know?
• 1:04:44
  I mean, look at your backward setup.
• 1:04:48
  After that, you didn't see more episodes of my podcast, right?
• 1:04:53
  I've had creatives on the forecast.
• 1:04:55
  I've had even musicians on the forecast.
• 1:04:59
  Maybe I did not tell you growing up because I was a skinny kid.
• 1:05:03
  They used to want to believe me. So I go into martial arts.
• 1:05:06
  So I started with Taekwondo, karate, moved to mixed martial
• 1:05:10
  arts. So I've had world champions in
• 1:05:13
  boxing, world champions in MMA, you know, guys in the UFC.
• 1:05:17
  But there's more Cage Warriors. They've all been on this
• 1:05:19
  podcast, you know, and I love, I love mixed martial arts.
• 1:05:24
  Anybody that knows me closely knows 3 letters are very dear to
• 1:05:28
  my heart. That's the UFC and yeah, what
• 1:05:30
  about the country? London.
• 1:05:31
  And I'm there. I was there at the Altar Arena
• 1:05:34
  and at the CA, you know, and, you know, that's something
• 1:05:39
  creative, you know, outside of building the company that, you
• 1:05:42
  know, I'm very passionate about. And even the way to tease, you
• 1:05:46
  know, people on the broadcast is the Brisbane for introduction.
• 1:05:50
  You know, I fused it into, you know, yeah, the the podcast, you
• 1:05:54
  have a big party for your. Hands like this too.
• 1:05:57
  I was like, we're getting into a fight.
• 1:05:58
  This is great. I felt like I was going about
• 1:06:00
  hearing like literally that's what I thought of when you were
• 1:06:02
  the intro. I mean, actually I said the
• 1:06:04
  bulls thing as well, but when I listen to some of your other
• 1:06:06
  episodes, I'm like, man, it's like a Ding, Ding, Ding, let's
• 1:06:08
  go here. And of course, think about it.
• 1:06:11
  Life is actually fine. I think about.
• 1:06:14
  It oh 100%. Oh, we have lots of battles.
• 1:06:19
  Yeah, yeah. No, I I've got a lot of.
• 1:06:21
  Battles. I've got another idea book
• 1:06:24
  that's just going to be called Fight, and that's what it's just
• 1:06:26
  about. Life is going to fight you every
• 1:06:28
  day. Let us collaborate on that one.
• 1:06:33
  And of course you know that. That's why I love working with
• 1:06:37
  athletes. They, they understand.
• 1:06:39
  They understand the concept of teamwork makes a dream work.
• 1:06:43
  Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. If you, if you're doing a team
• 1:06:47
  sport or an individual sport, you know what it means to have
• 1:06:50
  that discipline. Dr Consistency.
• 1:06:54
  A lot of people tell me and even people that don't really know me
• 1:06:58
  because they've seen my body of work, you know, over time, they
• 1:07:00
  said, how do you manage to be consistent?
• 1:07:03
  You know, even when I was in a corporate world, still putting
• 1:07:06
  on my body of work, like it's a function of commitment, right?
• 1:07:11
  And finding ways to be efficient.
• 1:07:13
  And when you're committed to something, it's really crazy how
• 1:07:19
  much you can achieve over time. It's just like compound
• 1:07:22
  interest. You say I am going to save $1.00
• 1:07:27
  one pound a day for the next, you know, 300 assets or five
• 1:07:32
  days. You'll be amazed with, you know
• 1:07:33
  what you're going to put together.
• 1:07:34
  But people don't have that discipline to be able to stay
• 1:07:39
  committed. And you know, I say, yeah, I
• 1:07:42
  know I'm not need you video with a high IQ.
• 1:07:44
  That's not what really sets me apart is sets me apart is that
• 1:07:48
  ability to stay disciplined and consistent and just cheap in
• 1:07:52
  the, you know, cheap the block every day.
• 1:07:55
  Yeah, it's the only way to do it. 130 episodes Like how?
• 1:07:59
  How did I come from? Yeah, Discipline.
• 1:08:02
  Equal success. Yeah.
• 1:08:04
  I mean, you've got to be disciplined.
• 1:08:06
  You've got to stay committed. You have to have a process
• 1:08:09
  that's just a essential building block of anything being
• 1:08:13
  successful. But you know, that's funny
• 1:08:16
  thing, right? Yeah, I'm going to talk about
• 1:08:18
  this. Yeah, there's a book either
• 1:08:20
  work, right? I'm about to publish a book at
• 1:08:24
  that book is on helping podcasters, you know, to succeed
• 1:08:28
  in this podcasting journey. And I have a podcasting
• 1:08:32
  management service under my company and I had 6 broadcaster
• 1:08:37
  on the management 6. But now we have 5, The five of
• 1:08:44
  them, you're on the Kingdom's forecast.
• 1:08:47
  That's the highest ranked. Global top 2.5%.
• 1:08:50
  We have Guy over CFO global 5%, top 5%.
• 1:08:55
  We have bricks and backs by Stephanie.
• 1:08:58
  That is global top 5%. We have the crews tycoon global
• 1:09:03
  top 10%. And of course, we have business
• 1:09:05
  11 global top 10% or we have one that I'm not going to mention
• 1:09:11
  the name. I think everybody deserves, you
• 1:09:13
  know, their dignity to be protected.
• 1:09:17
  And this was the only person who struggled with consistency,
• 1:09:22
  right, right. And also this person, I don't
• 1:09:26
  like the fact that they weren't faithful about, you know, their
• 1:09:29
  financial commitment to the programme, right?
• 1:09:33
  And they thought they could be smart about it.
• 1:09:35
  And you know, which are not like I, I was just laughing behind
• 1:09:39
  because if you're not investing in me, you're investing in
• 1:09:42
  yourself. Right.
• 1:09:44
  Yeah, that's sure changed. That's just stupid.
• 1:09:46
  But yeah. And they are the only ones that
• 1:09:49
  I left behind right now. Yeah, I feel sad for them.
• 1:09:52
  I feel sad for them. You know, back to where you have
• 1:09:55
  a SAS tool and somebody is trying to use that SAS tool,
• 1:09:58
  right, without paying the subscription like.
• 1:10:01
  Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:04
  It's not gonna work. Yeah.
• 1:10:05
  Well, life will teach them plenty of painful lessons.
• 1:10:08
  I feel bad, I feel bad for them. You can lead a horse to the
• 1:10:11
  stream, but you cannot force it to drink.
• 1:10:13
  That's one lesson. I'm learning this word of
• 1:10:16
  entrepreneurship. But like I said previously, it's
• 1:10:19
  hard to teach people attitude. Yeah, I was just going to say it
• 1:10:23
  brings us back to earlier about like you, you can't teach them.
• 1:10:26
  They either have it or don't have it.
• 1:10:27
  And like that's where we used to say if we have to manage you,
• 1:10:30
  we're going to manage you out of the organisation.
• 1:10:32
  Like you shouldn't be here, like, you know, you know, you
• 1:10:35
  should be a leader, you should have those things, you should
• 1:10:38
  have those attributes. So that's, that's part of it is,
• 1:10:40
  you know, but it's, it's a lesson learned for you too, you
• 1:10:44
  know, like that's not everyone's going to be above board with how
• 1:10:49
  they act and how they, and, and that's, that's what I found in,
• 1:10:53
  in management and leadership is once you identify those people,
• 1:10:57
  get them out like we would just, you know, sorry, you're not a
• 1:11:01
  good fit. You know, we used to say, you
• 1:11:03
  know, positive attitude, positive results, you'll love it
• 1:11:06
  being here. Positive attitude, not great
• 1:11:09
  results. Hey, we'll work with you.
• 1:11:10
  We'll help you figure it out. Negative attitude, negative
• 1:11:13
  results, you're gone, you know, and that's going to be the.
• 1:11:16
  Cut off. Yeah, gone.
• 1:11:18
  We're not here. You don't even, you're not,
• 1:11:20
  you're not going to last. You're going to be exposed.
• 1:11:22
  So like that last person you mentioned, that's a negative
• 1:11:24
  attitude, negative results, right.
• 1:11:26
  So get out here, you know, just goodbye.
• 1:11:29
  Wow, lots of lessons, you know, I've been learnt here and of
• 1:11:33
  course, I think that's a good way to segue to the last
• 1:11:39
  question I have for you, and that's about your legacy and
• 1:11:41
  impact. So looking back and of course
• 1:11:44
  looking forward, what do you hope your entrepreneurial
• 1:11:47
  journey inspires in the next generation of of founders?
• 1:11:52
  Yeah, I mean, you know, that's why I wrote the book a is just
• 1:11:54
  to inspire people to be an entrepreneur.
• 1:11:57
  That's what I was really hoping to do because I know what a
• 1:12:01
  great life it's given me. And you know, it's something I
• 1:12:03
  teach my kids about, you know, being an entrepreneur.
• 1:12:06
  And and I think in this age of AI where a lot of things are
• 1:12:09
  going to, oh, there are going to be job loss and they'll be job
• 1:12:12
  created because of AI too. I'm not saying that, but I think
• 1:12:16
  I don't know what profession I would tell my kids to go learn
• 1:12:21
  to be in college right now that isn't going to just get totally
• 1:12:24
  disrupted by AI, but you're always going to need
• 1:12:26
  entrepreneurs. So if I could inspire one person
• 1:12:30
  to be an entrepreneur that was kind of on the fence, that have
• 1:12:33
  been worth it for the book for me.
• 1:12:35
  And I've actually received a couple emails saying just that.
• 1:12:37
  So that's it. I think I would just, it's
• 1:12:40
  inspiring people to be entrepreneurs and then if
• 1:12:42
  there's anything they can learn from my lessons and my trials
• 1:12:46
  and errors and tribulations, I would be thrilled about that.
• 1:12:51
  I think that that is actually well said.
• 1:12:53
  Something just popped on my mind.
• 1:12:55
  I I want to make you make a commitment.
• 1:12:57
  I don't be recorded right. So your book I, I, I really need
• 1:13:02
  a copy of that book. I have a couple of books that
• 1:13:05
  are ready to buy, you know, from a guest.
• 1:13:07
  So we have this. You know this.
• 1:13:09
  I'll send you. Here it is.
• 1:13:11
  There is mine, yeah. Don't just want a copy of the
• 1:13:14
  book, I want an autographed copy of the book.
• 1:13:17
  No worries. I will send you on.
• 1:13:19
  Just just just like, just like what Professor Bruno did, right?
• 1:13:23
  I think I need to start connecting this autograph.
• 1:13:25
  There you go, I accept. Accept your challenge.
• 1:13:28
  OK, OK. Thank you very much.
• 1:13:30
  I appreciate that. So you know what time it is, is
• 1:13:32
  the quick fire round. Let's do it fun, fast and of
• 1:13:36
  course insightful. Just give me the quickest answer
• 1:13:40
  that you can provide to this questions.
• 1:13:43
  Are you ready to rumble? Yes.
• 1:13:49
  Let's go. OK, So what is one book that you
• 1:13:53
  think changed your life? Yeah, I, you know, I know I
• 1:13:56
  mentioned how to win friends influence people that that one
• 1:13:59
  day, but I already said that so and I know another common
• 1:14:02
  entrepreneur 1 is rich Dad, poor dad.
• 1:14:04
  But when I read that book. Robert Kiyosaki.
• 1:14:07
  Yeah, I was young and it just like changed my mind.
• 1:14:11
  Like I, I, I was thirsty for something.
• 1:14:14
  I was searching for something. I didn't know what that was.
• 1:14:16
  And I read that book and I'm like, this is it, This is what
• 1:14:19
  I'm talking about. It seemed like a major life hack
• 1:14:22
  to me. I, I definitely assimilated with
• 1:14:28
  that book. I don't know, it's not the right
• 1:14:29
  word. I'm looking for whatever.
• 1:14:30
  I saw myself on that book and that my dad was kind of like my
• 1:14:33
  real dad growing up was kind of like the poor dad in that book.
• 1:14:36
  He's get a good education, etcetera.
• 1:14:38
  I don't mean poor, like, you know, whatever he, that was what
• 1:14:41
  his opinion was. And then I had a buddy, one of
• 1:14:43
  my best friend's dad was like an entrepreneur.
• 1:14:45
  He was kind of like the rich dad.
• 1:14:46
  So there was 2 very influential men in my, in my young life.
• 1:14:49
  And so that kind of made sense to me.
• 1:14:52
  Anyways, I, that book changed my life.
• 1:14:54
  I went on AI, went on a reading spree, I learned about finance,
• 1:14:58
  I learned about entrepreneurship I real estate, which I still do
• 1:15:01
  to this day as well that that book changed my life.
• 1:15:06
  Do you want to hear a phone fact?
• 1:15:09
  Yes. Robert Kiyosaki says the same
• 1:15:14
  birthday with me. Robert Kiyosaki is April 8th
• 1:15:17
  1947 and of course I'm April 8th, 1992, so.
• 1:15:22
  That's cool. Know, know that you are.
• 1:15:27
  You're talking to the rich dad. Yeah.
• 1:15:30
  I want that. Well, maybe maybe everyone born
• 1:15:34
  on April, like there's an entrepreneur, you know, like
• 1:15:36
  that's. Yeah.
• 1:15:38
  Oh, where's your birthday? On November 17th.
• 1:15:42
  November 7th. OK, you close to my 1717170.
• 1:15:46
  You're Scorpio. Scorpio.
• 1:15:48
  Yes, Scorpio. Yeah, you, you can.
• 1:15:51
  My mom is a Scorpio. We we don't see eye to eye and
• 1:15:54
  everything that's. All we need to worry about,
• 1:15:58
  yeah. I'll tell you, I'll tell you,
• 1:16:00
  you know, like I feel, I feel like my mom feels like I'm this
• 1:16:04
  troublemaker personality. But you know, the troublemaker
• 1:16:08
  is honest is only making things happen.
• 1:16:10
  But I don't know that is what I feel.
• 1:16:13
  But she told me that no, that's not what I think about you.
• 1:16:16
  But on my mind, that's what I think you think.
• 1:16:19
  It's funny, I like that. But think about it right, Right.
• 1:16:24
  What did you say? That I'm also troublemaker, so
• 1:16:27
  all good there. I'm telling you, I I feel like
• 1:16:30
  if you are going to be great at entrepreneurship, you have to be
• 1:16:34
  a disruptor and you have to be a troublemaker of some sorts.
• 1:16:37
  That, yeah, I agree. Yeah, maybe this is.
• 1:16:40
  Wrong. Go go check them out.
• 1:16:43
  Like you, most others be a disruptor and I always like to
• 1:16:47
  say those mouths don't get fed. Yep, right.
• 1:16:52
  Yeah. So we always have to stand our
• 1:16:54
  grounds and, you know, be assertive.
• 1:16:56
  And sometimes being assertive leads to being borderline
• 1:17:00
  aggressive. And aggression is not.
• 1:17:03
  It's not a bad thing entirely. But I think people get
• 1:17:06
  uncomfortable with, you know, people being aggressive because
• 1:17:11
  if you're ambitious, you have to be aggressive, you know, to
• 1:17:14
  chase those things. That's difficult to achieve.
• 1:17:19
  Well, I don't know if you want to speak to that.
• 1:17:23
  No, no, I agree. I mean, I think it's just about
• 1:17:25
  being pointing it in a positive direction, you know?
• 1:17:28
  Absolutely. You know, Yeah, You know, And of
• 1:17:30
  course, when they see the results, they not come and say,
• 1:17:33
  oh, wow, I'm proud of you. But excuse me, coffee,
• 1:17:43
  meditation or both. Meditation.
• 1:17:48
  Oh wow, you just did that should have a little question.
• 1:17:53
  OK, Biggest misconception about entrepreneurship?
• 1:17:57
  I found it easier to be successful than I thought it
• 1:18:01
  would be. I think it's all the other
• 1:18:03
  things that go with it, like we talked about today.
• 1:18:06
  Yeah, I think it's a misconception that it's hard to
• 1:18:09
  run a successful business. I do.
• 1:18:10
  I think it's about determination and grit, and you got to have
• 1:18:13
  some talent, too. But I think people, you know,
• 1:18:16
  they hear the numbers, 5% of businesses fail in the first
• 1:18:19
  five years or whatever. I think that's a misconception.
• 1:18:22
  I think it's people give up or quit.
• 1:18:25
  They're not resilient. Yeah, determination that greets
• 1:18:29
  the grind and of course the the execution.
• 1:18:31
  So if you could have dinner with one entrepreneur, you know in
• 1:18:38
  world history even or dead. Yeah, this is a good one.
• 1:18:41
  I, you know, there's a the couple that rattle in my brain.
• 1:18:45
  I'll give you kind of one that is not probably talked about as
• 1:18:48
  much. You know, Tim Ferriss, who wrote
• 1:18:51
  the four hour work week. I was big fan of that book.
• 1:18:54
  That book really helped me run the business to the beginning
• 1:18:57
  and be more efficient and effective.
• 1:18:59
  And I listen to his I was like early listeners podcast.
• 1:19:02
  I just think he's a great teacher and it would be more
• 1:19:05
  more so to say thank you because I feel like he he changed my
• 1:19:08
  life. I've never met him or anything
• 1:19:10
  and listen to his podcast, but there was an opportunity at one
• 1:19:12
  point when he was kind of on, he wasn't very well known where you
• 1:19:16
  could bid on a dinner. You could bid on a charity to go
• 1:19:20
  to a dinner and I'd try bidding and it like they didn't get my
• 1:19:23
  bid or something. And I was like, I'm going to,
• 1:19:25
  I'm going to make this happen. So when I saw that, I was like,
• 1:19:28
  yeah, that's I would try to go back in time and, and do that.
• 1:19:33
  But I think you guys are brilliant dude.
• 1:19:34
  And he I would, I think I would enjoy talking to him so.
• 1:19:39
  OK, fantastica team first, right?
• 1:19:42
  OK, yeah, we work something out, We work something out.
• 1:19:45
  There you go. Make that happen, right?
• 1:19:49
  Yeah, you know, I'm the go to guy.
• 1:19:51
  I'm the one who makes this happen.
• 1:19:53
  That's why I'm called the troublemaker.
• 1:19:57
  I love it. Wow.
• 1:19:59
  So before I let you go, you are pretty much like a Big Brother,
• 1:20:04
  right between us and entrepreneurs.
• 1:20:07
  So what's your last statement of advice, especially when it comes
• 1:20:13
  to a growth mindset for Statue of Business?
• 1:20:19
  Yeah, I would say just just look at as obstacles as
• 1:20:22
  opportunities. There's a famous military hero
• 1:20:27
  in the United States, some Jocko Willenic.
• 1:20:28
  I don't know if you know who he is, but he he has something that
• 1:20:32
  he calls the good mindset where it's looking at setbacks as
• 1:20:37
  opportunities. Like, oh, I didn't get that job
• 1:20:40
  good, I can go start a company. Oh, I didn't get financing to
• 1:20:44
  start my company. Great, good.
• 1:20:46
  Or you know, excuse me, good, I will own more equity.
• 1:20:50
  You know, I didn't get that deal Good, I can go get a more high
• 1:20:52
  profitable customer. So it's hard to do that right?
• 1:20:56
  It's difficult. Your your natural reaction is to
• 1:21:00
  not feel that way. But if you do look at that way,
• 1:21:03
  and that's what I would try to do is like, OK, how can I look
• 1:21:06
  at the good in this? OK, it's not natural, but how
• 1:21:08
  would I, how would I, what would I do?
• 1:21:10
  What would become something good out of it?
• 1:21:12
  Like I talked about before, that situation where the two
• 1:21:15
  companies we build our services around were like kind of very
• 1:21:18
  disrupted. It's like I could have just kept
• 1:21:21
  going and rode that out and whatever.
• 1:21:23
  But I was like, OK, good. I'll look at this as an
• 1:21:26
  opportunity to go partner with Microsoft.
• 1:21:27
  And then that took us off to a whole new level.
• 1:21:29
  And so, you know, it's, it's difficult, but it's an important
• 1:21:34
  mindset to have. I think I really love that
• 1:21:38
  mindset. It reminds me of a book I read
• 1:21:41
  growing up. And of course, I'm really
• 1:21:43
  grateful that, you know, while I was a teenager, I was exposed to
• 1:21:46
  a lot of really good self help self development books.
• 1:21:50
  Well, I remember this one, it's by Doctor Willie Jolie.
• 1:21:53
  Of course the Titan of the book is a set back is a setup for a
• 1:21:58
  comeback. Yeah, I've heard that phrase,
• 1:22:01
  obviously, but I did not. I've never read that book.
• 1:22:03
  That's great. It's a book everybody should be,
• 1:22:06
  you know, it. It talks about a particular
• 1:22:08
  formula, the dad, and that's a vision, decision, action and
• 1:22:12
  desire. And when I think back, you know,
• 1:22:14
  full second moment about how those books have affected my
• 1:22:19
  life, influencing my mentality, my attitude as a person.
• 1:22:24
  And now looking how it's helping me to impact, you know, younger
• 1:22:29
  ones, you know, while you're younger, you, you feel like
• 1:22:32
  you're going to be young forever.
• 1:22:34
  But when you see these younger ones look up to you and they
• 1:22:38
  tell you, oh, you're giving us gems.
• 1:22:40
  Really appreciate you. And my social media and somebody
• 1:22:45
  was messaging me on X formerly cheater yesterday.
• 1:22:49
  And the person said, it's really wonderful connecting with you.
• 1:22:52
  I feel so honoured, you know, having advice from a person like
• 1:22:58
  you. And I'm like, who am I?
• 1:23:05
  Well, you never know your impact and congratulations to you on
• 1:23:07
  the podcast. Everything you're doing, man,
• 1:23:09
  and wouldn't possibly I like like all the Jerry, your quote
• 1:23:14
  and stuff. It's good stuff.
• 1:23:16
  So keep it going and. Thank you very much for that.
• 1:23:18
  You know, faith, faith, faith is a sometimes of these hope for
• 1:23:21
  the evidence of these not seen. You know, I'm very, very big on
• 1:23:24
  faith. And do you want to know what my
• 1:23:26
  best Bible verse is? Yes, I would love to.
• 1:23:31
  Philippians chapter 4, verse 13. I can do all things through
• 1:23:35
  crisis transcends me. It keeps it going.
• 1:23:39
  Yeah. And I was going to tell you
• 1:23:40
  something. The very first book my father
• 1:23:43
  ever gifted me was thinking Queries by Not Totally going to
• 1:23:47
  Kill. Oh, yeah, the holy hill.
• 1:23:48
  Yeah. Oh, of course I read that book.
• 1:23:50
  Yeah. What I read that book?
• 1:23:52
  I love it. I agree with it.
• 1:23:54
  You know, it's one of those things you read and you're like,
• 1:23:56
  is this true? And it seems kind of weird that
• 1:23:58
  I could just like think it and grow rich.
• 1:24:01
  But that that book I read on Millionaire Next Door is kind of
• 1:24:06
  similar kind of realm. At least I read a lot of those
• 1:24:09
  self help books. But yeah, think and grow rich.
• 1:24:11
  I mean, I never thought I'd be in my position that I'm in now.
• 1:24:14
  And IA lot of those books were very influential for me too.
• 1:24:18
  And I love that you talk about reading so much because I'm a
• 1:24:20
  avid reader myself. And that would be like probably
• 1:24:23
  one of the biggest things I would say.
• 1:24:24
  And I tried it and it's part of my kids.
• 1:24:26
  It's like read, you know, it's like all the like secrets of
• 1:24:30
  life are hidden in books and it's for you to unlock them.
• 1:24:33
  And you know, we it's really easy to get caught up and you
• 1:24:37
  know, TikTok and Instagram or whatever these kind of quick
• 1:24:40
  knit things, but like to have concentrated time and energy.
• 1:24:44
  And I think there's some beautiful about the written
• 1:24:46
  word, which is why I wanted to write a book myself.
• 1:24:48
  You know, like you can really fristalize, you know, what what
• 1:24:53
  you're trying to say. And that's hard to do even like
• 1:24:55
  in a podcast, like I'll listen back this like, Oh, I should
• 1:24:58
  have said that or I should have said this or whatever.
• 1:25:00
  But when you're writing, you can actually edit and really adapt
• 1:25:05
  it. And so you're getting someone's
• 1:25:07
  best, you know, So if you're reading all this stuff like that
• 1:25:11
  book, like that was his best, you know, and that's the beauty
• 1:25:14
  of books that is doesn't exist. Otherwise your movies a little
• 1:25:18
  bit, you know, but and that's you know, I don't know.
• 1:25:21
  I am huge avid reader and I just thought I love that I could tell
• 1:25:24
  that you are too. So that's great.
• 1:25:26
  Thank you very much. I think there's sort of like a
• 1:25:29
  solution to to what you were just talking about.
• 1:25:32
  And I think that solution is audio books and of course the
• 1:25:36
  contents of versions SO11 brand or what product that I really
• 1:25:43
  appreciate is Blinkist. So hi guys, Blinkist, please
• 1:25:46
  tell them it's high time to become sponsor this broadcast.
• 1:25:49
  So I have a one year subscription with them.
• 1:25:52
  So for me, I I love to get sponsored by brands that I use
• 1:25:58
  personally. So I'm the most authentic person
• 1:26:01
  working on the surface of the earth.
• 1:26:03
  So I'm an endangered species. So I cannot advertise something
• 1:26:06
  that I don't use. I cannot endorse something I
• 1:26:08
  don't use. So that's a help in thank you
• 1:26:12
  very much, guys. And of course, being kissed you
• 1:26:14
  up next. Let's do this whoa And of course
• 1:26:18
  to Kevin Barnacle love and of course respect to he.
• 1:26:23
  I only say that when a person shares the time with you to
• 1:26:26
  share their life with you at first.
• 1:26:28
  Thank you for sharing your life and your time with.
• 1:26:29
  Me. Thank you man.
• 1:26:31
  I'm very grateful to our audience.
• 1:26:35
  Can you see that gorilla behind Kevin, right?
• 1:26:37
  If you do not share and subscribe and comment and show
• 1:26:42
  love to this broadcast that Karina is from your way.
• 1:26:45
  And of course, for me, it's goodbye Kevin.
• 1:26:48
  Any last last words or do you want to give a shout out to
• 1:26:51
  anybody before you run away? No thanks, man.
• 1:26:54
  I really enjoyed talking with you and yeah, being a guest, so
• 1:26:58
  thank you. OK, out of Chris.
• 1:27:01
  Hopefully. We'll see.
• 1:27:02
  You'll see in the part too, brother.
• 1:27:05
  Wow, like I like to say, guys, guys, always go for something in
• 1:27:09
  your life so very, very important, conceive, believe,
• 1:27:14
  strive to thrive and of course achieve.
• 1:27:16
  And so that can't be a way next. I love and I respect your way.
• 1:27:20
  Goodbye for me.