Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 460: New opportunity, in Africa. 160 EA score, 321 GRE. 333 GRE, Startup experience

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MBA Wire Taps 460: New opportunity, in Africa. 160 EA score, 321 GRE. 333 GRE, Startup experience · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:16
  Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, December 8, 2025. Looking for an MBA experience where you're truly seen, supported and inspired to grow at Vanderbilt Business. You'll discover a learning environment that elevates your potential and turns ambition into action. Whether you're switching careers or accelerating your current path, the Vanderbilt MBA offers a customizable curriculum, exceptional outcomes and a community committed to your success. Propel your future with a program invested in who you are and who you're becoming. Vanderbilt is waiving their $200 application fee for MBA Wiretaps listeners. To learn more about the Vanderbilt MBA program and to claim your application fee waiver, visit Business Vanderbilt to.
• 1:05
  Speaker A: I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. How are things, Alex?
• 1:09
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graeme.
• 1:10
  Speaker A: So on today's show, we're going to dig into, you know, three candidate profiles. As we always do. We're going to get under the hood with the Latest Class of 25 career report from Harvard Business School. We're going to hear from some real humans at Berkeley, Haas and then hopefully offer up our usual array of, you know, advice and admissions tips if we can. But first I got to ask you, what is our, you know, this is the question I have for you. It Will our website crash this coming Wednesday?
• 1:36
  Speaker B: Well, it is, well, I call it Wacky Wednesday. But yeah, upcoming next week we're going to see a lot of, well, hopefully we'll see a lot of decisions. And on Livewire, yeah, lots of schools are releasing decisions. But before I get into that, I mean this week's busy too. We're recording on Thursday. Hopefully we'll see some booth invite booth decisions come out later today. But Yale Tepper Ross are amongst the schools that have been, you know, rolling out decisions this week and causing some really, hopefully some, some great news for folks listening. But next week, yeah, through the week I won't just focus on Wacky Wednesday, but we've also got Sloan has talked about Anderson Mendoza in Arizona, Carey on other days of the week but Wednesday, which is kind of ridiculous, you've got Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Kellogg, Darden, McCombs and John Hopkins. Carey scheduled to have released their decisions. And just to be clear, schools will provide a date from about which they'll release those decisions online. Some schools use some wording where they'll use that date will release decisions by this date versus on this date. So you've got to clarify the language that the schools use. But then you've got the Majority of schools, they like to call their admitted candidates prior to releasing those online decisions. So if, you know, if Wednesday is. The school is, you know, if you're looking at, let's say Kellogg and Harvard, for example, and you've interviewed both and you're waiting, Harvard will wait till Wednesday and release all those decisions at the same time online.
• 3:37
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 3:38
  Speaker B: Whereas some other schools, and I think Kellogg probably falls into this bucket, will call the admits prior to releasing those decisions online. And that might begin that morning or it might begin the day before. I know when Stanford does it, it typically is one. Or they start calling.
• 3:55
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 3:56
  Speaker B: So they have that personal connection with their admitted candidates to present them the news. So. So, yeah, super interesting. But to be clear, Wednesday should be really busy. But many of those folks might have actually heard the day or two before.
• 4:14
  Speaker A: Yeah. And actually, is Kellogg the one that sometimes they send out like a Zoom invitation to all the admitted students? And you.
• 4:19
  Speaker B: Some of these schools are starting to do that. I think Ross, you know, I was looking at Livewire this last week. I think Ross sent out a invite to admitted candidates, but I do think Kellogg was the first.
• 4:30
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 4:31
  Speaker B: To go down that route. So, yeah, give them credit. And again, that's really nice. Right. It's like, all right, we're not going to tell you the decision, but we're going to invite you to a Zoom call. Right?
• 4:40
  Speaker A: Yeah. And then you log in and you.
• 4:42
  Speaker B: Learn and it's the Zoom call that tells you the decision. But it's not like they're going to invite folks they didn't admit to a Zoom call. Right. So, yeah.
• 4:50
  Speaker A: Right, right, right. So anyway, super busy week ahead. And, you know, I also wanted to mention that on December 11, so Thursday of this week, we're going to have a webinar that's about career stuff. So it's called navigating your career in the current job market. And it's going to be. I'm really excited about this. So we have J.R. mcGrath, who's the executive director of admissions over at Carnegie Mellon Tepper, and he has assembled for us a panel of three career coaches from Tepper's career services office. And they basically picked the three folks in the office who are experts on consulting, finance and tech. And they're just going to talk us through what are they hearing in the market right now, hiring wise, what you can do, you know, as an applicant, as you're thinking about business school and careers in these different industries, whether it's, you know, finance, consulting or tech. So I can't wait for this, that's on Thursday, December 11th. You can sign up, just go to our website, Clear admit forward slash events. You can find all of our events, including that one, and sign up for it. And then, Alex, when the dust settles on all these.
• 5:51
  Speaker B: Yeah. Before you go on, I'm just going to say I think this will be a super interesting.
• 5:55
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 5:56
  Speaker B: Web webinar. I mean, clearly there's. I won't use this. Well, I. There's a high degree of uncertainty in terms of what's going on out there in the job marketplace. Right. So these folks are on the front line and so forth. And given the impact of AI on hiring, etc. Etc. I do think this will be a must listen to. Even if you don't attend live, hopefully there'll be ways to listen to the recording.
• 6:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think it's going to be a lot of fun and there should be a recording too. We are also when the dust settles on all the decisions, you know, because this is, we're in these kind of crazy decision weeks. You and I are going to do a live stream December 16th. So come and hang out with us. Noon Eastern, just go to our YouTube channel, Bit Ly Caoutubelive, and you can subscribe to the channel. You'll get an email when we come online, but we should do it at 12 Eastern on the 16th. So hopefully we'll be able to celebrate with a lot of our listeners and maybe even help some of them as they navigate decisions or, you know, if they have to pivot and think about a round two strategy. So looking forward to that. Alex, There's a ton of other stuff we've been up to. I mean, we've been publishing a lot of admissions tips on the website, one of which we just published a big listing of all the events that you can attend in December. So, you know, all the top schools are doing events online and in person and maybe in your city. And so we have this every month. We do this at the beginning of the month. So you click on the school you're interested in, you can see all their upcoming events. We also did a couple of admissions tips for, you know, kind of Round two. One is just about managing Round two MBA deadlines. These deadlines typically come clustered together, you know, right after the holidays. And so we give sort of four key bits of advice. And you know, those are plan to be busy in December, so do not leave this for after the holidays because the deadlines are literally right after the holidays. The second is think carefully about the timing of Each deadline, you know, you really need to look and see, like, okay, this school's due on this date at this time. Like, don't lose sight of that, because that may dictate in what order you need to be working on these. Another thing is just, you know, consider taking some time off work. I know that you may get a little time with the holidays, but it can sometimes be worth tacking on, like an extra week of vacation if you can afford to do so, because these applications take time. And the last thing I will say, and this is always a challenge in round two, is get your recommenders on board early. You should be talking to them right now because you do not want to be calling them on Christmas Eve or in between Christmas and New Year's to be like, hey, you know, would you write this letter for me that's due in a week? Right. So anyway, a lot of good advice up on the site there. Anything you want to add on that one, Alex?
• 8:37
  Speaker B: Yeah, I'd put that last tip front and center. List it first. Make sure those your recommenders are really on board, because as much work as you've got to do over the holidays to get your applications in ship shape and so on and so forth, when you're relying on other folks. Yeah, I would make sure that's all sorted so that you're not having to pester them over a time where they want to celebrate with their families, et cetera, et cetera.
• 9:08
  Speaker A: Totally.
• 9:09
  Speaker B: Yeah. Very good. The other tip I would just throw in is apply to Sloan.
• 9:12
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's a little bit later.
• 9:16
  Speaker B: It's weird, isn't it? Like you said, I think that there's a day, and I forget exactly what day it is, where maybe 10 or 15 programs have a round two deadline, literally one day, which is ridiculous, but Sloan perennially will come in late with its round deadline. So I think it's very smart on that, on their part.
• 9:38
  Speaker A: You know what I think we should do, Alex? We should design a round two set of deadlines and offer it to the schools, like, where we would put the deadline so that. Because I think what happens is these schools go in and they decide on their own, right? They don't ask each other, and then they publish them. And then we see, oh, my God, there's 10 on the same day. So we could actually sort this out for them. Maybe that should be something we do this off season. We did run two other admission tips on the site, both kind of oriented towards younger candidates. So the first is about just how do you apply to business School if you are a bit younger. And I would characterize younger as being like two years of experience or less to read that if you're in that bucket. And we also did a piece on whether or not you should apply for a deferred mba, you know, while you're still an undergrad. So check that out as well. Yeah, Alex. Moving right along, we, we connected with Berkeley Haas students as part of our real humans kind of ongoing thing where we connect you with all these current first years. And we caught up with Graciela, who's at Haas right now, and she's doing an MBA MPH so Master in Public Health alongside, and she's class of 27. She's originally from Fernley, Nevada and she studied at St. Mary's College, California for undergrad where she did a bachelor's in history. And before business school, she had about five years of experience spanning product management, marketing, healthcare and digital innovation. And we asked her like, why did she choose Berkeley Haas? And she said, I came to Berkeley to solve tough problems at the intersection of business, health and policy. The MBA MPH dual degree program stood out as the best platform to merge those interests. And being in the Bay Area surrounded by innovation and impact driven ventures was exactly the environment I wanted to grow in. But ultimately it was the culture that sealed my decision. The Haas community is humble, collaborative, and full of incredibly talented people. Every student, professor and alum I've met have been genuinely willing to help connect and support one another. So that was kind of nice to hear from her. And you know, she has kind of unique kind of career plans and it sounds like they have a great dual degree for that. We did ask her. I thought this was kind of fun, Alex. We asked her, like, what would be something she would skip about the application process, as we often ask these students, and she said, this is a new one for me. She said, getting too much feedback on my essays. More than two reviewers can dilute your voice and make your story feel less personal. I learned to trust myself and keep my narrative authentic. So what do you think about that, Alex?
• 12:11
  Speaker B: I think it's exactly right.
• 12:12
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 12:13
  Speaker B: And I'm not sure we haven't heard that kind of feedback before. Maybe we haven't. But I mean, absolutely, you, you want your voice, you want it to be authentic. You do want to get some feedback. Yes, and some feedback from folks that know a little bit about either MBA or the admissions process, etc. Etc. But yes, you don't want to completely get everything diluted. Everybody's got an opinion and then you're chopping and changing, and you've completely lost the thread of the original stories.
• 12:45
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, you know, it is, you know, feedback's so important, but there is so much, you know, too many cooks spoil the recipe kind of thing. Right. So, anyway, great advice from Garcia. She's now, you know, probably half, almost halfway through her first year. So hopefully that's going well with the juggle of the dual. Dual degree. The last thing I want to talk about before we talk candidates this week is Harvard Business School has released their employment report for the class of 25. And, you know, they report some pretty strong figures. Right. So the median base salary for that class is $184,000. Well, $184,500, and that's up from 175K. So they had a big bump in the median salary. They had 65% of the class seeking employment. And I want to unpack that in a moment. But of the folks that were seeking, 90% received an offer within three months of graduation. And that rate actually rose up to 94% by mid November. And 84% of the group had accepted offers. So those are the numbers there in terms of, like, where they went. For people who were seeking, 34% went into financial services, which includes, you know, private equity, banking, hedge funds, etc. That's actually down a little bit from 39%. 22% went into technology, and that's up from 16%. So a little bit of a bump in tech, 21% went into consulting, and that's up slightly from 18% last year. Smaller shares in healthcare, 6% and manufacturing, 5%. And those are unchanged from last year. Geographically, 92% of graduates remained in the United States, 48% of those in the Northeast and 24% in the west, compared with 88% based in the US for the prior class, and that was like a 49% Northeast and 17% in the west, respectively. So some subtle shifts, but I find it just interesting how geographically, at least a big chunk in the Northeast and then the rest mostly on the West Coast. Now, I did want to talk about this kind of percentage. Looking for work, right? So that's 65% we're looking, which means that 35 of the class did not follow traditional recruiting paths. Now, HBS does offer some insight into that. They say that 17% of those folks started their own business and 14% were sponsored, slash, returning to their prior employer. Now, we've seen that number change quite a bit. So in 2018, which is going several years back, about eight years ago, the percentage of students seeking work was at like 75%, so 10% higher. And for the five years that followed, it kind of hovered right around that in sort of a 72, 75% range. But then last year it dropped to 70 and this year to 65. So I wondered, you know, like, what's up with that and whether you have any thoughts.
• 15:39
  Speaker B: So let's be clear, Graham, because just as you were repeating those numbers. I just want to be quite clear. So 35% of the class.
• 15:51
  Speaker B: Is not seeking employment. Right. So 65, it reported they are 35% not.
• 15:57
  Speaker A: Right.
• 15:57
  Speaker B: Of that 35%, you said 17% started a business. Is that 17% of the 35%?
• 16:06
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 16:06
  Speaker B: Or is it. I guess my question is 17 plus 14 equals 31.
• 16:14
  Speaker A: Yeah. So that. Yeah. So they didn't tell us what that other. What is it, 4% or something are doing.
• 16:19
  Speaker B: So it's own. We're only seeking. What did the other 4% doing? That was my point, because the way you worded it, it was like the 17 of that 35. But that's not exactly. Right. Right. So it's 17% of the hunt. Anyway, the point is.
• 16:34
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 16:34
  Speaker B: Yeah. Where is the other 4% going? Right.
• 16:37
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 16:38
  Speaker B: So, so let's look at this number overall. So 65% or, sorry, 35% not seeking employment. 17% started a business. That's a really healthy number. Right. You want to get an mba. You want entrepreneurs in your MBA program. So the more that are seeking to start their own business, I think that's a good number for Harvard. Right?
• 16:59
  Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, yeah. And yeah. And that includes probably people doing things like search funds as well. Right. Because that's considered a startup. You're not considered hired if you're setting up a search fund.
• 17:09
  Speaker B: So search funds as part of that. And maybe you want to talk about that a little bit more in a minute. But so, so, so, so that number's very good. 14% sponsored. Maybe that's going up. But again, I think we'll see more of that with the top schools looking more favorably at sponsored students because obviously it guarantees outcomes and so forth. So. Yeah. What do you think? What are this. What, what, what is the 4% of the class doing, Graham?
• 17:38
  Speaker A: I think that some percentage family business. No.
• 17:42
  Speaker B: Is that, is that included?
• 17:43
  Speaker A: That would be returning probably like that would be considered like a sponsored where you're going. Well, I guess, you know, it's possible. I was, my first thought was some percentage of that are probably continuing with further Education. Okay. So they might be going on to some other. Maybe they're doing a lot finishing a law degree or if they're doing, you know, like a lot of these joint degrees, you have to do another year to. So they're not getting a job. And so I wouldn't be surprised if that's even a couple percent of this group. And then my guess is, you know, it's possible that the, the other folks are no longer seeking because they've given up. I mean, it is possible that, that. But I don't know how that would compare to previous years and stuff. And. Yeah, so I, I mean, I just kind of. It is. Am. For the people who are looking, that 184,500 is. Is. That's a big number that's come along. I mean. But. Yeah, so I, I don't know. I was surprised by this mostly in that it's pretty good. I mean, I, you know, we've been hearing all these, all this talk about, oh, you know, the job market's not so great and what's happening. You know, MBAs can't get jobs. But I'm not, you know, we'll see as more of these come out. But it feels like Harvard students seem to be doing okay overall.
• 18:48
  Speaker B: I mean, you know, I mean, I, I would imagine. And we'll see this in employment reports at the very top programs, you see more folks.
• 18:57
  Speaker B: Going, going after startups or search funds or whatever it might be.
• 19:01
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 19:01
  Speaker B: Because they are generally more entrepreneurial and the resources at the very, very top programs, including the networks. Networks is so important for starting your own business. Right. Much more robust at the very top program. So I think when you're seeing that 65%, my first reaction is negative. But when Harvard breaks down that number, that turns it into quite a distinct positive. In my book, 17% of the class is seeking startups. I think that's very good.
• 19:36
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I had, I had a coffee yesterday with Newton Campos, who's a professor and an entrepreneur and now kind of a search fund guru. And we had, we had coffee and he was just explaining to me about how, how Harvard and Stanford are kind of ground zero for search funds these days and how that is a big. It's like that is an area that is growing in popularity very rapidly. So I think that sort of explains why we've seen this shift away from everyone, you know, just going down the normal recruitment path. And he talked about how, you know, this is big at a lot of schools and people are starting to, you know, have Courses on it and things like that. So, anyway, we'll see. I can't wait. I know we have more coming on.
• 20:14
  Speaker B: Employment reports, but for folks listening, Graham, do you want to just give a quick 101. What is this? What is a search fund?
• 20:20
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah, Sorry, sorry. So a search fund is, as an mba, you have all these great, potentially kind of, you know, management skills and, and. And you maybe are interested in running a business, but you not. You don't have an idea. Right. That would make you, you know, some people have an idea and they become an entrepreneur, start a company. But if you don't have an idea, what you can do is say, hey, I'm an mba. I have, you know, pretty good management smarts, and I'm going to convince you to give me a bunch of money. You know, you raise a fund to then go buy a business, and in some cases, it can be kind of a family business or a business where maybe the. The owner is going to be retiring soon, is looking for an exit, and you have a sense that you could come into that business, take it over, make some changes, put systems in place, et cetera, and then turn it around and sell it within a few years. And this isn't. Maybe turnaround is the wrong word because you're not necessarily buying distressed businesses. You could be buying a business that's wildly successful, but that you think you could take to the next level. So it allows MBA grads, who I think are pretty good at what they're being trained for, to kind of step in and help companies, even if they don't, and be a kind of CEO, even if they don't have an idea of a company that they want to start from the ground up. So that's why I think it's quite popular.
• 21:28
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, it sounds very, very good. Yeah, yeah. Very good idea.
• 21:34
  Speaker A: And if Newton is listening, who's, you know, he's a total expert on search funds, I hope I didn't butcher that. He could probably explain this much better, and I should get him to come on the show and we'll do an episode about this because it is kind of an interesting domain that's fascinating to me. All right, so before we get into the candidates, one other thing. I caught up with one of my favorite industry veterans to do a special episode of the show, Tina Mabley. She's a senior assistant Dean at Texas McCombs, and we talked about leadership and kind of how to educate leaders. And so that's going to be an episode that you'll see in the Feed probably before the holidays, with any luck. But, Alex, I know we're running running long here, so I guess we should start talking about the candidates that you've picked out. Unless you had something else.
• 22:13
  Speaker B: Let's kick on and let's be brief.
• 22:14
  Speaker A: All right? All right, so this is wiretap cups, candidate number one.
• 22:20
  Speaker A: So our first candidate has eight schools on the target list. They're applying to Berkeley, Chicago, Columbia, Harvard, mit, Kellogg, Wharton, and Yale. They want to start school in the fall of 26. They've been working in public sector consulting, and they're thinking about consulting after business school and maybe VC in the longer term. They have a GMAT score of 685. That's roughly a 730, 740 on the old scale. They have a GPA of 8.19 out of 10. I believe they studied computer engineering as an undergraduate. Three and a half years of work experience, and they are basically, they're in a bit of a pickle and that they have already applied to Columbia and Kellogg in round one, and they're trying to decide whether they should throw in some additional apps in round two. They did get interviews at both of these schools, so they're waiting for their result. Their profiles that they are at Nepali mail, 25 years old. They, you know, as I said, have done like three and a half years of public sector consulting, first at a big four in India, but recently they joined the Clinton Health Access Initiative, and they are now in Africa in a kind of country office role there. They're a couple months into that role and their big dilemma is, you know, that they kind of moved into this new job right after submitting the Round one act, and so they're kind of wondering, should they apply in round two to some additional schools based on, you know, what happens with round one, or should they settle into this new role that they've taken and just apply kind of first round next year to Harvard, Stanford, Wharton and some of these others with a clearer path and having had maybe more impact. They did indicate they've had, you know, some extracurriculars in terms of bootstrapping a startup in college and advising startups ever since in underserved places across Nepal and India. But, Alex, what do you make of this? I mean, it's kind of an interesting thing because they have these two apps pending. They might apply to more schools in round two, but they were in this new job and they're wondering if they should just wait.
• 24:15
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, frankly, I don't think they should apply to schools in round two.
• 24:19
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 24:20
  Speaker B: Obviously they're going to get results from round one.
• 24:25
  Speaker B: Very, very shortly, as we've already discussed at the beginning of this show. And then they've got to make the decision, if they get a positive decision from Colombia or Kellogg, whether to stop what they're currently doing and then go off to business school. I've never been a big advocate of folks that start a new situation and in three or four months time depart to get their mba. I don't think it does the enterprise that they're working for a lot of good and I don't think it does the candidate themselves a lot of good sort of chopping and changing and so forth forth. So my inclination would be, and, and I did ask them just make, you know, is this opportunity that they have now in Africa aligned with their goals, they're able to grow and learn and so on and so forth. My inclination would be, even if they got an admit decision from one of these very good schools this season, potentially to pursue a deferral route by ask the schools if they would defer their admission a year and let them further developing this role in Africa. Now, to be very clear, schools don't like deferring admitted candidates. So it's a very different to the deferred admissions process when you're applying out of undergrad. So I, I don't want to conflate the two, but I might encourage the candidate to explore that path. And if they say no, then they have a choice to make again if they were admitted, whether to, to quit the Africa experience.
• 26:06
  Speaker B: Or reapply next season. So if you get an admit decision and you don't attend, you can reapply the following season as long as they do a good job in their reapplication essay. I think they can mitigate that quite easily and so forth. And then next season apply like they say, Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, but make, you know, targeting round one like they did this season for, for these programs. And I think though, I mean, this seems sounds like a really strong experience for them in Africa. Right Graham? So, so I think they should make the most of it and then pursue the best MBA they can in another year's time.
• 26:51
  Speaker A: Yeah, I, I agree. I think you're giving good advice. Like let's see what happens with round one. I wouldn't bother with round two. I would wait until next fall, you know, a really compelling offer or something like a big scholarship. And one of the things I did want to mention is they talked about how scholarship dollars are really important to them. And I will say, you know, I'm less sold on the fact that they're going to get a big scholarship, and that's because their GMAT is, you know, it's good. It's right around the average of the schools. But they're, you know, kind of computer engineering background, decent grades, but nothing like nothing's jumping off the page. And I worry that even though they're from Nepal, they may be lumped in with the kind of India, Nepal, Pakistan, kind of of region, which is overrepresented in the pool. And so I don't know how much scholarship dollars are going to flow their way, which might be another reason for them to stay, get this amazing experience in Africa.
• 27:39
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 27:39
  Speaker A: And apply in the fall first round as a superstar. I mean, I would argue if they have time, they could even maybe attempt to get that, you know, GMAT score into the stratosphere if they're really focused on dollars here.
• 27:50
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 27:51
  Speaker A: Because that could help too. But anyway, it's a really interesting dilemma and I appreciate them sharing their profile and wish them best of luck with these results that they in the coming days. And obviously, if they stay in that role in Africa, it sounds really like an impressive opportunity. So either way, I think they're going to land on their feet.
• 28:08
  Speaker B: Yeah. Fantastic opportunity. Best of luck to them.
• 28:11
  Speaker A: Yeah. All right, so let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two.
• 28:18
  Speaker A: So our second candidate this week comes from an apply wire entry. Again, seven schools on the target list. Berkeley, Columbia, Harvard, mit, Kellogg, NYU and ucla. And this person is also looking to start in the fall. They have a military background and they want to pivot into Consulting. Their GRE score is a 321, but they also revealed that they took the executive assessment and have a 160. They have an undergraduate GPA from one of the service academies of 3.19. They have five years of experience located in San Diego, and they're hoping to land in Boston or D.C. after business school. And they said that they are applying or I guess have applied to Stern, UCLA and CBS in round one and that they use that EA score for those programs because those three schools will accept the executive assessment. They interviewed with all three and they're just kind of awaiting word if they get into Columbia. They said they will add sloan in round two. Their GR score, they admit green score, sorry, is lower that 321. But the quant they said is significantly higher. It's a 165 on the quant. They're hopefully they're hopeful that that could be enough. And they also did point out that they have a master's in Computer Science and that their undergrad was in computer science as well from the Service Academy. Alex, what do you make of this candidate? We don't know too much else like in terms of like the caliber of their military experience, etc. But they, they mentioned strong profile, so I'm assuming that part is okay. Yeah, but what do you make of them?
• 29:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think we can make that assumption that that part is strong. You know, they're computer science engineer in the military, probably doing some really good sort of intelligence type work and cyber security, whatever it might be. But super, super interesting. I would imagine the 319 out of the Service academy, typically there's going to be less grade inflation there. So whilst it's not a good GPA overall, perhaps there's some mitigating circumstance to that. Let's hope they have a good GPA for their Masters of Computer Science program. That will help a lot. As you say, they've got interview invites or they've done interviews at Stern, Anderson and Columbia because they take the ea, which you know, is a little bit of a backdoor testing scenario for top, top MBA programs, I think is, is, is, is, is okay to say. I mean, you agree with that, don't you, Graham?
• 30:50
  Speaker A: Oh yeah.
• 30:50
  Speaker B: I mean the EA doesn't really distinguish really smart from, from. How do you qualify the ea? Because you do it very well.
• 30:59
  Speaker A: I remember talking to someone who's in the kind of testing space and they just mentioned that even if you get a perfect score in the ea, it doesn't, it doesn't test the upward bounds of where, where the GRE or the GMAC go in terms of your kind of intellectual capacity and stuff. It's, it's not the same test. I mean it's. Yeah. Like you're saying.
• 31:18
  Speaker B: But so anyway, they're able to use the EA for Stern, Anderson, Columbia and let's hope they get some favorable decisions based off a really strong military career, really good goals. Defense tech makes perfect sense based off of their background and obviously that's an exploding area, pun intended, et cetera, et cetera. So, so I think all that fits well. Well, so if they, if they do get these admit decisions, they're going to apply to Sloan in round two because that's their preference over Colombia, as far as I'm aware. And that 321 GRE with the lower on the verbal is, is, it's going to be a little Bit trickier. Trickier. I think.
• 32:01
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 32:01
  Speaker B: I think they've taken the GRE three times. I think that's what they said.
• 32:05
  Speaker A: Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah.
• 32:07
  Speaker B: So maybe there's no, you know, they've hit their ceiling. So they just take a flyer on, on Sloan. But what a luxury they would have. Right. If they've got into Colombia. Take a flyer on Sloan, maybe also on Wharton and so forth to just see what their upper bound is in terms of.
• 32:24
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 32:24
  Speaker B: Target programs they can get into. I think that that makes perfect sense. If they don't get the admit from Columbia and possibly Stern, Anderson or whatever, then they're going to have to broaden out their round two strategy. Yeah, that's for sure. But I mean, I'm hopeful, Right. If they're backing it up with a really strong military career.
• 32:46
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 32:47
  Speaker B: That they're going to be in pretty decent shape.
• 32:49
  Speaker A: I, I think, I tend to agree. I think that assuming the military career is sound, as we say, service academy grades are usually underinflated. So that's okay. And I'd love to know that. Master's computer science, gk and you pointed out. Yeah. They want to go from consulting for consulting and then pivot into like defense tech, which makes a ton of sense. So the goals are good. Yeah. So yeah, I feel like they're, see what happens. I suspect they might get an offer from one of these programs in round one. Nyu, ucla, Columbia and that, you know. But I guess the one thing that kind of sticks with me is just. Yeah. Like I, I, I worry that the scores and, and this kind of counting stats may keep them out of the sort of M7 realm. But we, we will see. Or they might get wait listed. Was my awesome. I thought like Columbia might throw them on the list and see if they retake the test or something and get a better score or I don't know. I mean, although they did, I guess they submitted the 160EA still. Yeah. I don't know. We'll see what happens. But I want to wish them the best of luck and thank them for their.
• 33:44
  Speaker B: But I, I, I do think if you get on the wait list and you took the ea, then the default advice would be to take the GRE or.
• 33:52
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.
• 33:53
  Speaker B: So, so it comes back and haunts them, that GRE score.
• 33:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Well, I want to thank them for their post and for their service and yeah. So hopefully they land on their feet and get some offers here at around one, but we'll see where things go. So let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three.
• 34:14
  Speaker A: So our final candidate this week has just the trilogy as their target here. They're going to apply to Harvard, Wharton and Stanford and they're hoping to start in the fall of 26. This person is a software engineer. They're thinking about consulting or tech after business school and they listed a whole number of companies ranging from, you know, MBB consulting type Jobs to Apple, Facebook, Google, et cetera. They have a 333 on the GRE and a 3.5 GPA. Five years of work experience. They're located in New York and they want to stay there in the long term. They have some pretty interesting work experience. They worked in a startup for three and a half years where they were a senior software engineer and a technical lead, also a founding engineer I guess in that firm. And they, you know, it sounds like they had a really interesting experience there. And you know, they mentioned they presented regularly at 120 person all hands meetings. Then they also have worked at a second startup for the last one and a half years where again they're a senior software engineer. This is a biotech startup focused on disease prevention and it has IPO'd while they've been there. They did a. Several internship internships when they were, I'm presuming, back in school internships at Apple, Google and Tesla. So some pretty big names on the, on the list there. They also did point out that they were accepted and enrolled in a mechanical engineering PhD back in 2020, but that they withdrew to take on that founding engineer role at the first startup. They are now 30 years old. They point out that they are overrepresented. They're aware. White, I guess they're white male. Yeah. So what do you make of this, Alex? Because it's, you know, interesting profile only looking at what we call the trilogy. Harvard, Stanford, Wharton. What do you. Yeah, what do you make of their chances here?
• 36:06
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I'd like to know a little bit more maybe about their outside of work life and interests and, and so forth.
• 36:13
  Speaker A: Yeah, same.
• 36:14
  Speaker B: But in work I think this is an outstanding candidate. Right. I, I like some of the decisions that they've made. I mean they got into a PhD program, decided to pursue the startup. I think that perhaps was quite a bold decision at the time. So I think that's quite interesting. And they've obviously done very well at startups that they've been. They've got a lot of leadership exposure and so forth. And as you say, the brand names, they got on their CV is pretty ridiculous. Not that that should matter, but at least if you're getting these opportunities at Tesla and Google and so forth, that says a lot about who you are. Yeah. In, in the first place. Right. So, so I think there's a lot to like here. They've got a 333 GRE. Their GPA maybe is not outstanding, but it's, it's certainly well within the mix. And when you complement that 333 GRE, there's got, there shouldn't be any problems there. I assume that's an engineering 3.5. Yeah, yeah. And, and so forth. You know, maybe a little bit more clarity on the goals. Just make sure that's fine tuned. I know you're probably going to say that need to broaden their target schools a little bit. And, and, and that may be smart. Right. Add Sloan or add one or two others, but there's a lot of deep quality in this application profile.
• 37:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. So my, my concerns with this candidate are as you exactly pointed out, you know, it's always dangerous to only apply to the three top schools that all have very low acceptance rates. We are, you know, heading into round two. So I mean they, they, this is when you kind of need to apply to all the schools you're going to apply to. It's not like you would really want to wait and add round three. But the other thing that concerns me about this candidate is as impressive as their startup career has been, you know, I thought it was kind of interesting that they didn't share anything about that area that you were curious about, which is outside activities, interests, like what do they do with their spare time. And my fear with this candidate knowing the life of startup engineer tech lead is that they may not have much because maybe they were working, you know, 80 hours a week or something as they've been in these kind of crazy startup environments. One that IPO'd during their tenure.
• 38:27
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 38:27
  Speaker A: Um, and so I, I do wonder, will they come off as kind of, you know, they started a PhD? They're, they're, you know, obviously kind of a tech person and so will they come off as sort of a one trick pony or something? And so that's, that's something that's on my mind and that's why I was like, gee, I don't know that I would only apply to the top three. They are 30 and we do see, you know, some schools seem to like older candidates more than others. Historically the average age, you know, a little bit younger at say hbs. Or Stanford than at say a Wharton or an mit. So I would just be mindful of that too. And I don't know those are the concerns I have, but I guess we'll see. I mean, hopefully they'll get everything together in round two and get it in. But I would, like you said, maybe throw in an additional app or two.
• 39:10
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think your points are right on message. I imagine as you suggest that they're super busy in the startup environment, but.
• 39:25
  Speaker B: Real highbrow candidates can be super busy but still find the time to do stuff that they, they're interested and passionate about outside of work. And I'm just hoping there's something there that they can complement everything else with and that really sets them up.
• 39:38
  Speaker A: Yeah, and, and hopefully that something isn't like tech related related like oh it be something just different, you know, like maybe they write poetry or who, who knows what it is. Right. But something that would help them stand out. But anyway, I want to wish them the best of luck and thank them for sharing their profile. Alex, you've done it once again. Picked out three really interesting candidates to discuss. All of them are going to be very busy over the holiday season getting their. But I wish them the best of luck and everyone who's listening, you know, hope you get good news as we kind of channel through all these round two decisions in the coming days. But Alex, let's get together next week. We'll do our live stream and we'll record another episode of the podcast.
• 40:15
  Speaker B: Very good. Take care everyone. Stay safe.
• 40:31
  Speaker B: Sam.