Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Young American Mom found DEAD in Mexico, tortured, teeth pulled

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Young American Mom found DEAD in Mexico, tortured, teeth pulled · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous young twenty three
0:16
Speaker 1: year old woman, Elizabeth travels from her Texas home in
0:20
Speaker 1: search of her boyfriend, crossing the Mexican border. She was
0:25
Speaker 1: never seen alive again. Why Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
0:44
Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at crime Online. Shortly
0:49
Speaker 1: after walking across the Veterans International Bridge after five PM,
0:53
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Flores called her mother, letting her know she was
0:55
Speaker 1: in Madam Morrows and would be home soon. Her mother,
0:58
Speaker 1: Maria Rubio, tells CARVTV quote, it was eleven twelve, one two,
1:05
Speaker 1: and I kept calling her to find out where she
1:07
Speaker 1: was and why she hadn't gotten home. And I couldn't
1:09
Speaker 1: sleep all night because I was waiting up for her.
1:12
Speaker 1: When Rubio still hadn't heard from her daughter by morning,
1:15
Speaker 1: she called the Brownsville Police so they could help her
1:17
Speaker 1: and opened up an investigation to help her find her.
1:19
Speaker 1: The Brownsville Police put out a missing person's report on
1:22
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Flores. The day after. She went to Matamoros, Mexico
1:26
Speaker 1: with me an all star panel to break it down
1:29
Speaker 1: and put it back together again again. This is Crime Stories.
1:33
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, and I want to thank you for
1:34
Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM
1:38
Speaker 1: one eleven. Joining me, Katie Turkaski from California criminal defense attorney,
1:43
Speaker 1: former JAG former federal prosecutor, and you can find her
1:47
Speaker 1: at Golden Lawinc. Dot com. Doctor Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist,
1:54
Speaker 1: chief of Psychiatry, Memorial Regional Healthcare, and Assistant Clinical Professor,
2:00
Speaker 1: Yale University. You can find them on insta at doctor
2:03
Speaker 1: Daniel Bober with me David Kat's former Senior Special Agent
2:08
Speaker 1: with the DA. He is an author of the Executive's
2:12
Speaker 1: Guide to Personal Security and the CEO Global Security Group
2:17
Speaker 1: Global Security Group dot com. Wow, that's a mouthful. Medical examiner,
2:23
Speaker 1: the medical examiner for the entire state of Florida. Joining me,
2:27
Speaker 1: doctor Tim Gallagher. But first to Brandy Koncini with The
2:32
Speaker 1: Katie Times. Brandy Keioncini question to you, I can't imagine
2:40
Speaker 1: a worse nightmare for a parent. I mean, you raise
2:44
Speaker 1: your child, you give them all your love, all your time,
2:48
Speaker 1: all your money, dreams for their future, where they're going
2:52
Speaker 1: to be, how you can help them get across the
2:55
Speaker 1: finish line, and then you get that call, Hey, mom,
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Speaker 1: I made it, I'll call you later, but then you
3:03
Speaker 1: don't hear back, and you call it eleven twelve, one
3:07
Speaker 1: two on the hour till the sun comes up and
3:10
Speaker 1: you can't find your daughter. Tell me about this young
3:16
Speaker 1: lady Lizabeth traveling from Texas to go down to Mexico.
3:22
Speaker 1: What do we know about her and her mother's relationship. Well,
3:26
Speaker 1: what we know is that she was a young mom herself.
3:30
Speaker 1: She had two young children, and she was very close
3:34
Speaker 1: with her family. And she received a call that her
3:39
Speaker 1: boyfriend had been kidnapped and was going to go pay
3:42
Speaker 1: the ransom to go out my stars. Whoa whoa right
3:46
Speaker 1: there straight out to the CEO Global Security Group, David Katz,
3:53
Speaker 1: formerly with the DA. You know, it's hard enough finding
3:58
Speaker 1: a missing person within the US, but finding somebody missing
4:02
Speaker 1: in Mexico, you know what, forget about it. That's it's
4:06
Speaker 1: just almost impossible. Well why because the Mexican authorities are
4:11
Speaker 1: not nearly as good as professional as a United States authority. Boy,
4:15
Speaker 1: that's an understatement. Huh. You sure put perfume on the
4:20
Speaker 1: pig on that one. I mean, we can't get anything
4:23
Speaker 1: out of Mexican authorities. We have a extradition treaty of sorts,
4:31
Speaker 1: and you can't find anybody down there when they go
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Speaker 1: missing because so many of the law enforcement are in
4:37
Speaker 1: league with the bad guys, the cartel. They're all getting
4:42
Speaker 1: paid off exactly right. That's so it's it's a bit
4:46
Speaker 1: of a roll of the dice. If you get you know,
4:48
Speaker 1: the individual non corrupt law enforcement officer and unsadly to
4:54
Speaker 1: say they're are not, they're fewer and fewer of those,
4:56
Speaker 1: then you have an opportunity to forward a case. But
5:00
Speaker 1: if you have somebody who, as you said it might
5:02
Speaker 1: very well be working for the cartel in the moonlight hours,
5:05
Speaker 1: then you're not getting anywhere. And tell me about the
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Speaker 1: Mexican law enforcement, because if suddenly one of my children
5:15
Speaker 1: go missing in Mexico, I don't really know where I
5:19
Speaker 1: would start, you know what, I'd swear it start first,
5:22
Speaker 1: alert their authorities in the US authorities, But then I
5:25
Speaker 1: get a private eye, somebody like a global security group
5:30
Speaker 1: to help me figure out how to cross international borders
5:35
Speaker 1: and find my child. I mean, how do you even
5:36
Speaker 1: go about finding a missing person, a missing adult in Mexico. Well,
5:42
Speaker 1: it's also an excellent question. So to your point, if
5:46
Speaker 1: you if you went the private route. At least you
5:49
Speaker 1: have the possibility of getting a network of individuals who
5:53
Speaker 1: are from the lead of the area. And you know,
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Speaker 1: I hate to be so stark, but this is a
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Speaker 1: corrupt area. It's a corrupt nation with respect to law enforcements.
6:03
Speaker 1: They're on the take. Do I even need to say,
6:05
Speaker 1: El Chapo, you need to tell me that nobody knew
6:10
Speaker 1: that Old Chappo's people were digging a tunnel miles long
6:15
Speaker 1: with lighting with a little motorcycle route right under his cell.
6:22
Speaker 1: It's like Epstein. Nobody noticed that he was gone from
6:26
Speaker 1: his cell and he went to the bathroom which is
6:28
Speaker 1: behind a little petition like that, and then nobody saw
6:30
Speaker 1: him for hours and whoops, he was gone. Nobody knew.
6:34
Speaker 1: Imagine that. Of course they're dirty. Yeah, well, I mean
6:37
Speaker 1: in this case, in this case, that can actually work
6:39
Speaker 1: in your favor because if you have, if you have
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Speaker 1: the wherewithal, the taste to pay for information, you're going
6:43
Speaker 1: to get it. Absent that you got to rely on
6:46
Speaker 1: your local authorities. They'll contact the FBI, they'll reach out
6:49
Speaker 1: to their counterparts in Mexico, and they'll do the best
6:52
Speaker 1: they can. But what do you mean their counterparts who
6:55
Speaker 1: do their private eyes and mako, what do we actually
6:58
Speaker 1: we actually have like a you know, we're fortunate enough
7:01
Speaker 1: to have a good, good network of context down in Mexico.
7:03
Speaker 1: But they're locals, they know the system. There are legitimate
7:08
Speaker 1: law enforcement individuals in Mexico. We've worked the EA's worked
7:12
Speaker 1: with them, sometimes sometimes to our our our dismay, but
7:16
Speaker 1: sometimes it works out very very well. So there are
7:18
Speaker 1: vetted units if if you if if it's the best
7:21
Speaker 1: way to describe it. There there they're checked, their polygraphed,
7:24
Speaker 1: the there, reliability is assessed, so those folks can be enlisted.
7:30
Speaker 1: But then again, you're dealing with an open area. You're
7:32
Speaker 1: dealing with an area that doesn't We have cameras, we
7:34
Speaker 1: have license plate readers, we have bridges, tolls and tunnels
7:37
Speaker 1: that once once you get into Mexico, you're you're you're
7:40
Speaker 1: losing a lot of that electronic tracking ability that we
7:44
Speaker 1: come to take for granted here in US law enforcement.
7:46
Speaker 1: Unless unless you have someone as much of an idget
7:50
Speaker 1: as the affluents attain. Remember him, Ethan Couch, remember him
7:53
Speaker 1: doctor Daniel bob Or forensics say hi, trist Uh. We
7:57
Speaker 1: talked about him a lot. He killed I think three
8:00
Speaker 1: or four people driving under the influence for the millionth
8:03
Speaker 1: time permanently paralyzed another. As the people were on the
8:08
Speaker 1: side of the road changing attire. He was high as
8:12
Speaker 1: a kite, and his mother, Tanya, I think what's her name,
8:16
Speaker 1: took him on the lamb to Mexico and then the
8:18
Speaker 1: two you know what, I'll just say it, idiots. I
8:21
Speaker 1: don't like. We don't use the S word. Okay, in
8:24
Speaker 1: our house, the S word is stupid. We don't say that.
8:26
Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna go with idiots. They use their
8:30
Speaker 1: cell phone at a five star resort in Mexico to
8:33
Speaker 1: order a pizza. Bam got him. So at least we
8:37
Speaker 1: can search cell phones. Do you remember that, doctor Daniel
8:40
Speaker 1: bober yep? I remember what people think that we can't
8:44
Speaker 1: track a cell phone because you cross into Mexico. I mean,
8:47
Speaker 1: people just you would think in this day and age,
8:49
Speaker 1: with movies and the internet, people would have an idea
8:51
Speaker 1: how technology works. But sometimes they just don't. And the
8:54
Speaker 1: other thing is a certain degree of arrogance. Crime Stories
9:10
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, Guys, again, thank you for being with
9:14
Speaker 1: us here at Fox Nation. In series M one eleven,
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Speaker 1: a beautiful young mom just twenty three years old. Lizabeth
9:21
Speaker 1: gets a mysterious call that her fiance is in danger,
9:26
Speaker 1: kidnapped in Mexico, and just like in the movies, she
9:30
Speaker 1: takes off to try to save him. Thank God in
9:34
Speaker 1: heaven she didn't have her children with her. Take a
9:37
Speaker 1: listen to our friend at crime online. Lisbeth Flores reportedly
9:43
Speaker 1: received a call from an individual in Mexico who told
9:46
Speaker 1: her that he and his group had kidnapped her boyfriend
9:49
Speaker 1: and demanded a ransom. Flora's mother says Lizabeth told her
9:53
Speaker 1: that she was going to Madame Morros to find her
9:55
Speaker 1: boyfriend and that she would be back later that night.
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Speaker 1: Flores is said to have crossed into Mexico via the
10:00
Speaker 1: Veterans International Bridge that afternoon with an undisclosed amount of
10:04
Speaker 1: cash on her person. Maria Rubio says when her daughter
10:08
Speaker 1: wasn't home as planned, she tried calling her every hour,
10:11
Speaker 1: starting at eleven PM, all through the night. The next day,
10:14
Speaker 1: Rubio called Brownsville, Texas police and reported Florrez missing. You know,
10:18
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about this, this mom heading off into
10:21
Speaker 1: the night, trying to find her fiance, getting what money
10:25
Speaker 1: she has and taking off to Katie a. Turkaski joining
10:30
Speaker 1: me out of California. Former prosecutor now defense attorney. Katie again,
10:35
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. This kidnapped for ransom
10:40
Speaker 1: is in the US anyway, typically in the movies and
10:44
Speaker 1: in novels, right, it doesn't happen that much in Mexico.
10:48
Speaker 1: It's a whole another ball game. Katie, m alright, Oh, absolutely,
10:53
Speaker 1: And I think it's just crazy to think that this
10:56
Speaker 1: girl told her mom what she was doing, and I
10:58
Speaker 1: guess that would give anything hearent huge concern when somebody
11:01
Speaker 1: doesn't return from a trip like that. So it's a
11:05
Speaker 1: very tragic situation, to say the least. In fact, in Mexico,
11:09
Speaker 1: people are kidnapped for ransom a lot, Katie Tcherkaski, not
11:14
Speaker 1: necessarily Americans, but Americans too. It happens a lot there.
11:19
Speaker 1: What's the difference. Why is it uncommon in the US
11:23
Speaker 1: and then you cross the border and it's very common, Katie, Well,
11:27
Speaker 1: I think it's just a matter of enforcement. I mean,
11:29
Speaker 1: as we're talking about there's a lot of corruptions south
11:32
Speaker 1: of the border. We want to think that there's legitimate
11:34
Speaker 1: agencies that will work to help solve crimes. But everybody
11:38
Speaker 1: knows if you're going to commit a crime, cross the
11:40
Speaker 1: border and go on the lamb, and you'll have a
11:42
Speaker 1: very good chance of potentially escaping justice. For a long time.
11:46
Speaker 1: There's things people can get away with, and then there's
11:48
Speaker 1: things people can't. People will continue to do the things
11:51
Speaker 1: that work. Quite frankly, so this gorgeous twenty three year
11:54
Speaker 1: old girl, and you can find her. She's a woman,
11:57
Speaker 1: she's got two children in searcher for fiance. Wouldn't you
12:01
Speaker 1: have done the same thing? Wouldn't you have jumped in
12:04
Speaker 1: that car and taken off? Because this place, Madame Morros Mexico,
12:10
Speaker 1: known locally as Heroica, is in northeastern Mexico and it's
12:16
Speaker 1: right across the border from Brownsville, Texas. So when we
12:22
Speaker 1: say she traveled from Texas to find the fiance, it's
12:28
Speaker 1: not really that far. So she takes off in the
12:32
Speaker 1: night and the pain, you know, why is it? Doctor
12:35
Speaker 1: Daniel Bober? Did you know? Doctor Bober? And I think
12:38
Speaker 1: we were talking about this the other day. My son
12:40
Speaker 1: John David is now about six feet tall. He's twelve,
12:45
Speaker 1: doctor Bober, He's twelve, and I tell him I'm taught.
12:48
Speaker 1: I'm the tallest one in the house as long as
12:50
Speaker 1: I have the code to Amazon. But I think of
12:53
Speaker 1: him doctor Bober as his feet, his toes are right here,
12:58
Speaker 1: and his head is right here. Because my dad and
13:01
Speaker 1: I especially my dad would hold the twins just like that,
13:04
Speaker 1: and when I look at them, that's what I see,
13:07
Speaker 1: my little babies. And you know, this mom was calling
13:11
Speaker 1: and calling and calling Elizabeth although the night on the hour,
13:15
Speaker 1: and she wouldn't pick up. Why do I and other
13:19
Speaker 1: parents still see their grown children as babies. It's maternal instincts, Nancy.
13:25
Speaker 1: They're always going to be a baby to you because
13:28
Speaker 1: you know, you picked them up from their crib and
13:31
Speaker 1: you watch them grow up, and so you're always going
13:33
Speaker 1: to have that connection and you're always going to see
13:35
Speaker 1: them that way, in a way that other people will
13:37
Speaker 1: never see them. And you know, if you've got a
13:40
Speaker 1: tender heart like I do, like this morning, Lucy was
13:44
Speaker 1: very sassy over the weekend. So her big punishment, Jackie
13:47
Speaker 1: was I made her clean out in the guinea pickage
13:49
Speaker 1: her guinea pigs before school this morning. That was the
13:53
Speaker 1: big punishment because it's usually me shoveling poop at a
13:57
Speaker 1: quarter of seven other drama and it hurt me to
14:00
Speaker 1: do that, but I see her as a little as
14:04
Speaker 1: my little baby. And you know this Motherlizabeth's mother going
14:07
Speaker 1: through h E double l calling on the hour, the
14:10
Speaker 1: phone going straight to voicemail. Jackie's waving and noted at
14:13
Speaker 1: me it's a good one too. In twenty eighteen, there
14:17
Speaker 1: were nearly two thousand kidnappings in Mexico for ransom. Kidnappings,
14:25
Speaker 1: so it's very very common there. And then well, well,
14:30
Speaker 1: who's jumping in? Is that Katie? This is this is
14:33
Speaker 1: Brandy jump in? Brandy. Well, I just wanted to let
14:36
Speaker 1: you know that since the pandemic started, there's been an
14:39
Speaker 1: even greater spike in kidnaps kidnapping than extortion, especially in
14:44
Speaker 1: Matta Morris. Because of all that, the cartel's numbers have
14:49
Speaker 1: gone down, and so the kidnappings and the extortion have
14:53
Speaker 1: been a way to raise extra funds. So this is
14:57
Speaker 1: not unheard of. You mean the cartel's drug money has
15:00
Speaker 1: gone down, Is that what you're saying? Yeah, so they're
15:03
Speaker 1: relying on kidnapping for ransom. Oh my goodness, Katie, Texas
15:08
Speaker 1: Katie Times owner Brandy Kioncini is with me. She's right
15:12
Speaker 1: there in Texas, how far is it do you know
15:15
Speaker 1: from where Elizabeth took off to Madama's don't think it's
15:19
Speaker 1: that far. It's not. It's not very far at all.
15:23
Speaker 1: Where she was from a is Los Fresmos, which is
15:25
Speaker 1: just north of Brownsville, and Brownsville is right there on
15:29
Speaker 1: the border across from Adam Morris. You just walk across
15:32
Speaker 1: the bridge. And as a lifelong Texan growing up, we
15:37
Speaker 1: were all taught, you know, if you go to Mexico,
15:40
Speaker 1: you make sure you stay in the safe areas. You
15:43
Speaker 1: don't get separated from your friends because you could get kidnapped.
15:47
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, this is this was just part of
15:50
Speaker 1: the nature and it's always been that way, you know.
15:54
Speaker 1: Brandy Kionsini, I just finished writing a book. Hey, it's
15:58
Speaker 1: going on sale September twenty two, but Don't be a victim,
16:02
Speaker 1: Finding back against America's crime Wave. And in it I
16:05
Speaker 1: addressed traveling, traveling abroad, and traveling in the US by
16:12
Speaker 1: RV camping the works. But Brandy Cancini, I started the
16:17
Speaker 1: chapter on traveling abroad, I ended up doing almost a
16:20
Speaker 1: whole chapter on traveling to Mexico because the numbers of
16:25
Speaker 1: deaths and kidnappings in Mexico is insane. And I think
16:30
Speaker 1: back Brandy to the times that I went there to dive.
16:34
Speaker 1: Of course, I was underwater almost the whole time. I
16:37
Speaker 1: come out of the water, eat dinner, go to sleep.
16:38
Speaker 1: I'd be so tired. But if you don't stay on
16:42
Speaker 1: your little resort, you're screwed. Yes, absolutely, Tourist areas are
16:47
Speaker 1: obviously a lot, a lot safer simply because they want
16:51
Speaker 1: you to come back, and Americans provide a lot of
16:54
Speaker 1: income to those areas. But places like Matta Morris, Laredo,
17:00
Speaker 1: ne Waiver, Laredo, those kind of border towns, those are
17:03
Speaker 1: very very popular with the college set in Texas. What
17:07
Speaker 1: I was working at Sears Robot, trying to fill up
17:10
Speaker 1: the tank of my Toyota Corolla. In high school, what
17:13
Speaker 1: do you mean? And the college the high did you
17:15
Speaker 1: say high school or college? Well, most of college, but
17:18
Speaker 1: there are plenty of the same thing. In college they
17:24
Speaker 1: go to like break in Mexico. Yep, they love to
17:28
Speaker 1: go over there. The booze is cheap, there's a lot
17:30
Speaker 1: of you. You can have a lot of fun there
17:33
Speaker 1: and so bad stuff can happen if you're not careful.
17:35
Speaker 1: And um, and that's what happens a lot of times.
17:40
Speaker 1: I myself personally went over to the border, probably about
17:44
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago was the last time I did it.
17:46
Speaker 1: We went over, Uh, just for fun, to go have
17:50
Speaker 1: dinner and have a fun to go get kidnapped. Well,
17:54
Speaker 1: and that was the thing I wish you would ask
17:56
Speaker 1: me first. Brandy Kianzani asked me the next time we're
17:59
Speaker 1: thinking of going to Mexico. Well, you're hearing Brandy Curancini,
18:03
Speaker 1: who's a native there in Texas, can tell you all
18:05
Speaker 1: about crossing the border for a vacation. But in the
18:08
Speaker 1: middle of the night, Elizabeth Florence takes off to try
18:11
Speaker 1: to find her fiance. I want you to hear when
18:15
Speaker 1: the case takes a turn, take a listen to our
18:18
Speaker 1: friend Rainad Rodriguez flex New South Texas. The body of
18:22
Speaker 1: a young woman who had gone missing from Cameron County
18:25
Speaker 1: was found in Mexico. A missing person report was filed
18:28
Speaker 1: by the Brounso Police Department for a twenty three year
18:31
Speaker 1: old Elizabeth Florides on Monday. Investigators love Florides had crossed
18:35
Speaker 1: into Mexico through the Veterans International Bridge. Sunday afternoon, officials
18:39
Speaker 1: confirmed Flora Floridace's body was found in Matamoros. Her family
18:43
Speaker 1: has been referred to the Mexican consulate. The Attorney General
18:46
Speaker 1: of Tamolibaz is taking part in the investigation. Stories with
19:00
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, the guys, we were talking about the disappearance,
19:06
Speaker 1: and now we know the murder of a gorgeous young mom.
19:12
Speaker 1: Twenty three year old Lizabeth, two little children. She gets
19:17
Speaker 1: a call that her fiance has been kidnapped. She lives around, well,
19:23
Speaker 1: it's Fresnos, Texas, but it's near Brownsville, which is a hop,
19:28
Speaker 1: skip and a jump to the Mexican border. So this
19:32
Speaker 1: Texan mom takes off with a bag of money. She's
19:37
Speaker 1: got her little money together to try to get her fiance.
19:43
Speaker 1: Then we get the news that she herself has been murdered.
19:49
Speaker 1: But that's just the tip of the iceberg. Take a
19:52
Speaker 1: listen to our friends at the Star Telegram. Lizabeth Flores,
19:56
Speaker 1: twenty three, was discovered dead in Mexico on August eleve,
20:00
Speaker 1: two days after crossing the border from Brownsville to see
20:03
Speaker 1: her boyfriend. Her remains were found in Mattam Morris, about
20:06
Speaker 1: twenty minutes away. Police said Florrie's death was the result
20:09
Speaker 1: of blunt force trauma to the head, likely from large
20:12
Speaker 1: rocks found near the scene. All of her teeth were
20:14
Speaker 1: missing and bruising to much of her body, lead authorities
20:17
Speaker 1: to believe she was tortured. Her mother, Maria Rubio, told
20:20
Speaker 1: Telemundo of forty that her daughter had gone to visit
20:22
Speaker 1: her boyfriend August ninth. She grew worried when Lizbeth didn't
20:26
Speaker 1: return home that evening and filed a missing person report.
20:29
Speaker 1: Losing a child is like having your heart ripped out,
20:31
Speaker 1: Florrie's mother told the outlet, as translated by The New
20:34
Speaker 1: York Post, I feel such sadness because of what they
20:37
Speaker 1: did to my daughter, the way they left her, the
20:40
Speaker 1: pain that my daughter went through there in that moment,
20:42
Speaker 1: that's what hurts joining me now. In addition to Katie
20:46
Speaker 1: Turkasky out of California, doctor Daniel bober For psychiatrist David
20:51
Speaker 1: Kats with Global Security Group, Brandy Kioncini, the owner of
20:57
Speaker 1: the Katie Times, They're in Texas is doctor Tim Gallagher,
21:02
Speaker 1: the medical examiner for the entire state of Florida. That's
21:07
Speaker 1: a big deal because usually you have a medical examiner
21:10
Speaker 1: for the county or for a few counties together. He's
21:15
Speaker 1: the medical examiner for the whole state of Florida, and
21:19
Speaker 1: let me assure you there's never a lack of business.
21:22
Speaker 1: Doctor Tim Gallagher blunt forced trauma to the head on
21:28
Speaker 1: this beautiful young twenty three year old mom, likely from
21:32
Speaker 1: a rock near where her body was found. Doctor Gallagher,
21:38
Speaker 1: all of her teeth were taken out and she was
21:45
Speaker 1: so bruised police believe that she was tortured. Let's just
21:51
Speaker 1: start with the teeth. Very often teeth are taken out,
21:59
Speaker 1: fingertips are removed, so there will be no way to
22:04
Speaker 1: id the dead body. How is it that your teeth
22:10
Speaker 1: identify you? Yeah, we use dental records and post mortem
22:16
Speaker 1: teeth X rays to identify people unidentify people all the time,
22:21
Speaker 1: several times a week, many times a month to do that.
22:25
Speaker 1: If you look at dental X rays, each one of
22:27
Speaker 1: your teeth have very individualized characteristics that are that are
22:34
Speaker 1: customed just to you. So if we can take the
22:39
Speaker 1: dental records from when they were alive and then take
22:44
Speaker 1: X rays from when they are deceased and match up
22:47
Speaker 1: those teeth, all we really need are three to five
22:49
Speaker 1: points of uniquely identifying features to positively identify that person
22:56
Speaker 1: you know, and to have teeth removed forcibly like they do,
23:02
Speaker 1: requires a great deal of for us, especially in somebody
23:05
Speaker 1: young like this twenty three year old woman. So this
23:08
Speaker 1: was if she was alive. This is probably one of
23:10
Speaker 1: the most painful procedures that you can do in terms
23:15
Speaker 1: of torture for her. So my heart actually goes out
23:18
Speaker 1: to the family and to her children because she had
23:23
Speaker 1: suffered so much. Doctor Gallagher, is there a way to
23:28
Speaker 1: determine if her teeth were pulled out while she was
23:31
Speaker 1: still alive? That's going to be very difficult without somebody
23:36
Speaker 1: witnessing it. As far as looking at the autopsy and
23:40
Speaker 1: looking at where the teeth were in the body, all
23:43
Speaker 1: we can say is that they were removed at the
23:46
Speaker 1: time of her death or around the time of her death,
23:50
Speaker 1: But there's no way to act. Wait a minute, her
23:52
Speaker 1: if they had been removed post mortem after she was
23:55
Speaker 1: killed as a way to keep her from being identified,
23:59
Speaker 1: would the gums have bled because the heartwhit me pumping
24:03
Speaker 1: blood as opposed to if they were removed in life,
24:07
Speaker 1: it would be bleeding profusely. Oh, that's absolutely true. You
24:10
Speaker 1: can look at in the ginger boat or the gums
24:13
Speaker 1: to see if there is any hemorrhage or bleeding that
24:17
Speaker 1: occurred there because she had a blood pressure. But you're right, Nancy,
24:22
Speaker 1: if a tooth is removed when the person is dead,
24:25
Speaker 1: then you will not have that bleeding around the gums,
24:27
Speaker 1: and you could stay with a great deal of confidence
24:30
Speaker 1: that that tooth was removed after they had expired. Jackie,
24:34
Speaker 1: did I tell him that before? He told me. I'm
24:37
Speaker 1: so happy. I've never learned so much from you, Nancy,
24:40
Speaker 1: I told you a single thing until today. I want
24:44
Speaker 1: a copy of this, you know. Jakata Cherkasky joining me
24:48
Speaker 1: a criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor and jag at Golden
24:52
Speaker 1: Law Inc. Dot Com. Katie, I'm thinking this whole thing through.
24:58
Speaker 1: We can't tell. We don't know the aunt, sir, if
25:00
Speaker 1: the teeth were pulled in life or post mortem, but
25:05
Speaker 1: based on all the bruising, it seems as if she
25:08
Speaker 1: were tortured, and that would have been a way to
25:11
Speaker 1: torture her. Hold on, Katie Tchurkasky, Doctor Gallagher, how much
25:17
Speaker 1: pain does it take before somebody just passes out? Do
25:20
Speaker 1: people really pass out from pain? Oh? They sure do,
25:22
Speaker 1: and some people have higher pain tolerances than others, you know,
25:26
Speaker 1: so it would be very individualized. You know. I would
25:30
Speaker 1: expect that a woman who's given birth to two children
25:33
Speaker 1: would have a higher pain tolerance than most people. But
25:35
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody can tolerate the pain of getting
25:38
Speaker 1: your teeth pulled out without anesthesia. I'm also learning that
25:43
Speaker 1: she was partially scalped. What does that mean, Doctor Gallagher?
25:48
Speaker 1: That means that her the scalp covering her skull, which
25:53
Speaker 1: includes her hair, was peeled back away from the skull
25:57
Speaker 1: to Katie Tchurkasky joining me out of Irvine, California, Katie,
26:02
Speaker 1: I've had autopsy photos, and of course, as you know
26:07
Speaker 1: from being a veteran trial lawyer, usually cannot bring in
26:10
Speaker 1: autopsy photos to the jury as evidence because it's too
26:14
Speaker 1: upsetting and inflammatory unless there's something in the autopsy that
26:20
Speaker 1: helps prove your case. The few times I've managed to
26:24
Speaker 1: use an autopsy photo in evidence is when under the
26:28
Speaker 1: scalp there was a hematoma bruising under the scalp. That
26:34
Speaker 1: was significant because you couldn't see it on top of
26:39
Speaker 1: the scalp. I guess you could also use that for
26:43
Speaker 1: entry and exit wounds, but you don't really need an
26:46
Speaker 1: autopsy photo for that. Katie Chikowski question to you, what
26:54
Speaker 1: does this violence, the pulling her teeth, the scalping, the torture,
27:02
Speaker 1: what does that tell you about the crime? Well, I
27:04
Speaker 1: think you made a good point. We really have to
27:07
Speaker 1: determine whether they removed her keith to prevent her from
27:09
Speaker 1: being identified, or if it was part of the torture
27:12
Speaker 1: and part of the murder itself. And I think that
27:15
Speaker 1: would really determine how much you would be able to
27:17
Speaker 1: get in front of a jury. So the idea that
27:21
Speaker 1: she would scalped shows to me that really they were
27:24
Speaker 1: trying to torture her. This wasn't just a robbery, This
27:26
Speaker 1: wasn't just a quick killing after they got the money.
27:28
Speaker 1: There was something much more personal to it, potentially much
27:31
Speaker 1: more specifically planned and targeted. So I think as a
27:36
Speaker 1: propcutor you would want to try really hard to show
27:39
Speaker 1: why the circumstances of the killing really aggravated the murder
27:43
Speaker 1: itself and why you need to show that photograph in
27:47
Speaker 1: order to really get that whole story across to the jury.
28:04
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace Guys in the Brownsville, Texas
28:10
Speaker 1: area and let me give you the tip line nine
28:13
Speaker 1: five six four or five six tips. Repeat nine five
28:17
Speaker 1: six four or five six tips. A young woman, Elizabeth
28:21
Speaker 1: crosses the border over the Veterans International Bridge to Mexico
28:26
Speaker 1: to find her fiance. She never makes at home, her
28:30
Speaker 1: mom calling hour by hour by hour trying to find her.
28:36
Speaker 1: Finally they discover her body. Now photos have been leaked
28:41
Speaker 1: which we are not putting on crime online, of her
28:46
Speaker 1: line face up in her bra pants and shoes. I
28:57
Speaker 1: believe that she was either tortured by having all of
29:01
Speaker 1: her teeth pulled out and scalped, she was heavily bruised,
29:06
Speaker 1: or she was beaten in life and then had our
29:10
Speaker 1: teeth and part of her scout removed to help avoid
29:15
Speaker 1: an identification. Why why did this happen to a young
29:20
Speaker 1: mom of two? Take a listen to our friend. Tony
29:24
Speaker 1: Valasquez Junior k RGV. Twenty three year old Elizabeth Floods
29:29
Speaker 1: from Brownsville was found dead in Mexico on Tuesday, just
29:32
Speaker 1: a day after Brownsville police found a missing person's report.
29:35
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Flood's mother tells us she felt helpless, unable to
29:38
Speaker 1: do more to save her daughter. She says when she
29:41
Speaker 1: called local authorities, all they could do was take a
29:43
Speaker 1: missing person's report, since her daughter had crossed a border
29:46
Speaker 1: to find her boyfriend. Tuesday afternoon, her family got the
29:49
Speaker 1: news they were dreading. Their twenty three year old daughter,
29:51
Speaker 1: with a full life left to live, was found dead
29:54
Speaker 1: with signs she'd been tortured within the Moutomotial city limits.
29:57
Speaker 1: Tom Olipa's authorities confirmed that the young woman died a
30:00
Speaker 1: blunt force trauma to the head, consistent with a large
30:03
Speaker 1: rock found at the murder scene. Her body was covered
30:06
Speaker 1: in bruises, and she was missing all of her teeth,
30:08
Speaker 1: not signs of a quick and painless death. To David
30:12
Speaker 1: Kat's CEO Global Security Group, the rock that was usually
30:17
Speaker 1: think to bludge in her dead authorities believe came from
30:23
Speaker 1: the scene. What does that tell you about the killer?
30:28
Speaker 1: A rock there at the scene? Well, this is a
30:31
Speaker 1: bizarre case and and I think, you know, possibly a
30:35
Speaker 1: more in depth autopsy WI will answer some questions. It's
30:39
Speaker 1: possible she tried to flee and what does the killer
30:42
Speaker 1: do pick up a rock and strikes her with the rock?
30:44
Speaker 1: And by the way, a jagged rock to the head
30:47
Speaker 1: can also partially remove the scalp. So what she dragged,
30:50
Speaker 1: did she fall? How many times she struck? You know
30:52
Speaker 1: a lot of things. It does, however, suggest you know,
30:56
Speaker 1: a passion. You know, if you're talking about someone who's
30:59
Speaker 1: going to beat and torture young woman to death, you're
31:04
Speaker 1: gonna you have to look at okay, is the person
31:06
Speaker 1: either either a cycle path or is there some some
31:11
Speaker 1: prior connection, prior emotional issue between the two that results
31:16
Speaker 1: in extreme anger and that kind of savagery that we
31:19
Speaker 1: saw that that poor woman had to endure. Is the
31:21
Speaker 1: removal of the teeth. That pulling the teeth for instance,
31:24
Speaker 1: with pliers in life? Is that a typical cartail move? Nothing?
31:29
Speaker 1: Nothing surprises me. In nineteen eighty five February nine, nineteen
31:33
Speaker 1: eighty five, a DA agent named Enrique Camarain a Kiky
31:36
Speaker 1: Cameraina was grabbed by by Mexican police working for the
31:39
Speaker 1: Tarktels and over a period of days was tortured, kept
31:43
Speaker 1: alive by a physician to endure more torture. I cannot
31:47
Speaker 1: even tell you what that poor man went through. So
31:50
Speaker 1: you know that teeth and and frankly things to a
31:56
Speaker 1: person that I don't even want to mention over the
31:58
Speaker 1: air that that's very common in Mexico, and it's it's
32:03
Speaker 1: I mean someone who's we have, we have feelings, we
32:05
Speaker 1: have emotions for we have sensibilities. For someone to be
32:09
Speaker 1: able to do that to another human being while they
32:11
Speaker 1: are alive, while they are suffering, you know, to unimaginable,
32:16
Speaker 1: unimaginable pain, that is just I can't even understand that
32:19
Speaker 1: level of savagery. So this has all the earmarks of
32:24
Speaker 1: a cartail killing. But whai on a young mom of
32:27
Speaker 1: two take a listen again to our friends at KRGV.
32:31
Speaker 1: Her mother tells us she is absolutely certain that her
32:33
Speaker 1: daughter was a victim of extortion and that she was
32:36
Speaker 1: ultimately kidnapped and murdered by a violent gang of kidnappers
32:39
Speaker 1: who operate out of Madamotis. Brownsville Police confirmed that Flood
32:43
Speaker 1: has had crossed and in Mexico through the Veterans International
32:45
Speaker 1: Bridge on Sunday just after five pm, and that she
32:49
Speaker 1: was subsequently found ceased. Now, Elizabeth's mother is hoping authorities
32:53
Speaker 1: on both sides of the border will help bring the
32:55
Speaker 1: ruthless gang of kidnappers to justice. We've also learned that
32:58
Speaker 1: the FBI is now involved. Since the murder happened in Mexico,
33:02
Speaker 1: the victim's body remains with a forensic examiner in Matamotos
33:05
Speaker 1: as the investigation continues. Elizabeth Floydes was a graduate from
33:09
Speaker 1: Los Fresno's High School and leaves behind two children. It's
33:12
Speaker 1: just hard for me to imagine, Brandy Koncini, the owner
33:16
Speaker 1: of The Katie Times, that a young mom is pulled
33:20
Speaker 1: in to a cartel plot. But what we're hearing from
33:23
Speaker 1: David Katz at Global Security is that this has all
33:27
Speaker 1: the hallmarks of a cartel killing. I'm very curious to you,
33:35
Speaker 1: Brandy Keioncini. We know about the mom. You know what
33:40
Speaker 1: Brandy hold on, take a listen to our friends at Ritbart, Texas.
33:46
Speaker 1: A man previously convicted in Texas for sexually assaulting children
33:49
Speaker 1: was arrested in Mexico for the murder of a Texas
33:52
Speaker 1: woman in Mata Morris. The murder involved to fake kidnapping that,
33:56
Speaker 1: according to authorities, was part of a scheme to rob
33:59
Speaker 1: the victim while making the crime look like a cartel execution.
34:03
Speaker 1: This week, agents with the tom Alibis Attorney General's Office
34:07
Speaker 1: arrested Braulio Trevino Messius and charged him with one count
34:10
Speaker 1: of murder in the gruesome death of his stepdaughter, twenty
34:13
Speaker 1: two year old liz Eth Rubio. Rubio was a US
34:16
Speaker 1: citizen from South Texas who crossed into Matta Morris to
34:19
Speaker 1: see her boyfriend before she went missing. The murder does
34:23
Speaker 1: not appear to be tied to the cartel that controls
34:25
Speaker 1: Madam Morris. It was instead a robbery allegedly led by
34:29
Speaker 1: Trevino Messius, the victim's stepfather, Brandy Chiosini. I am stunned.
34:37
Speaker 1: What do you know? Well, so we know that that
34:42
Speaker 1: this was allegedly his plan, is he wanted money, He
34:47
Speaker 1: knew the family, you know. I think the assumption is
34:52
Speaker 1: that he knew they wouldn't contact the police, and so
34:57
Speaker 1: he lives in Madame Morris, got Elizabeth to get over
35:02
Speaker 1: there and got what he wanted. I'm overwhelmed at what
35:08
Speaker 1: we know about what happened to psychiatrist doctor Daniel Bober
35:14
Speaker 1: forensic psychiatrists joining US Chief of Psychiatry Memorial Regional Healthcare Systems.
35:20
Speaker 1: Doctor Bober for a stepfather to go through all this
35:25
Speaker 1: to lure her there under false pretenses, just to rob her.
35:31
Speaker 1: You know, the only thing that didn't make sense to me,
35:33
Speaker 1: is how the cartel could target a young mom of
35:37
Speaker 1: two out of Texas raising her two children at just
35:41
Speaker 1: twenty three years old. So I guess should we have
35:45
Speaker 1: seen it coming? No, Nancy, you know, it looked this
35:49
Speaker 1: is what it looked like. It looked like it was
35:50
Speaker 1: a cartel hit. But apparently there were obviously people who
35:54
Speaker 1: thought that if it looked like that, they would never
35:57
Speaker 1: suspect that this is what actually happened. So I think
35:59
Speaker 1: that the original assumptions were correct based on the information
36:02
Speaker 1: that we had thank to Brandy keyon Seny. What do
36:05
Speaker 1: you know about the stepfather? Well, so he is. He
36:10
Speaker 1: is a registered sex offender. He was convicted in two
36:14
Speaker 1: thousand and six of one count of sexual assault of
36:21
Speaker 1: a child who was a girl who was fifteen, and
36:24
Speaker 1: one count of indecency with a child. He served four
36:27
Speaker 1: years in prison and was released in twenty ten. And
36:31
Speaker 1: he was living in Texas when the incident occurred back
36:37
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, and when he was arrested,
36:41
Speaker 1: he was arrested at his home in mattamor So he
36:43
Speaker 1: had moved back once he had gotten out of prison.
36:47
Speaker 1: So a Texas mother of two just twenty three years old,
36:51
Speaker 1: beaten dead, half scalped, her teeth pulled out of her mouth,
36:57
Speaker 1: was lured across the border by a sex offender who
37:02
Speaker 1: knew her family, claiming her fiancee had been kidnapped. Now
37:09
Speaker 1: we know why she had to die, because she could
37:12
Speaker 1: identify him. May he Braglio Trevino Martinez wrought in Hell
37:24
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace's crime story, signing off goodbye for