Latest / AccessCo Leaders Career Conversations / How to Navigate your STEM Career
Transcript
- speaker-0: Good afternoon and welcome to AccessCo Leaders Career Conversation. I'm Ilyne I get to host this with our students from DC International and our guest is Kirk Brown, who is PhD, Dr. Kirk Brown. And he works as a group leader with senior applications and environments with ARA, Applied Resource Associates. That is a mouthful, Kirk. Can you please tell us what is ARA in one or two sentences? What are you doing there? speaker-2: Well, good afternoon, everyone. Thank you Associates is a company that was founded out of the Air Force lab back in the late 1907. All those days and grown into about 2500 people. speaker-3: And today we're primarily an engineering services company. we solve a for the. I'd say. Passion service, service, freedom and growth, which are. That for during for fun and profit is kind of like. speaker-2: lot of hard problems, ⁓ the Defense Department of War. And, you know, the biggest thing is we want to, you know, apply all of our core ⁓ tenants of the company. And we do like the tagline we like to say. speaker-0: Engineering for fun and profit. Is that what I heard? speaker-3: That is literally from our CEO. speaker-2: It's a very entertaining ⁓ tagline. speaker-0: I love it. think you have the right personality for that too. And for our students and our listeners, Kirk and I go way back. were, we did our undergrad together and Air Force ROTC back at our detachment at UCLA, ⁓ they are the NCAA women's national champions for basketball. Yay. Go Bruins. ⁓ right, Kirk, speaking of our undergrad days at UCLA, can you tell us quickly about your journey into who you are now as a doctor an engineering firm? speaker-5: speaking. speaker-1: Yeah, so that goes all. speaker-3: the way back to before middle school. If you ask my parents they would laugh joke and say sure where this but certainly not speaker-2: to I would say, if you came from the moon, one of us, my background and STEM from my parents. speaker-3: stress level. Totally divergent. a bit further back in my grandparents, actually the speaker-2: ones where I get my stem genes from. so my pathway was, you know, I'm interested in math and science and my entire, you know, academic ⁓ high And, ⁓ you know what? really want to do one of two things in high school. ⁓ I to be a military officer, an airplane, or I wanted to become an aerospace engineer. And, ⁓ know, ⁓ and engineering the time. speaker-3: That's what you pretty much. career up and decide And I said, I military officers. It turns out that everyone's kind of a product of their time. And so probably around sophomore year in high school, sorry, excuse me. Yeah, sophomore year in high school, I started looking. Time I got to UCLA and it was time to clear a major physics ⁓ kind of in this inner space where defense was sort of ramping. speaker-2: aerospace engineering was sort of on the clock. and other options and let's. intrigued me. was down in the mid to late 90s. is pre, you know, global war on terrorism 9 11. So nobody knew what was coming on the speaker-3: Internet, the sort of dot com was really coming up at the time. So I shifted sort of into this. speaker-2: quasi IT and then I went into physics as my speaker-3: undergrad and wanted to clear it. I saw it as a way of like, well, this is pretty much everything that's not super specific where I can't get pigeonholed in a lot of layoffs. I like having trouble looking for a job. So I looked at it as like a flexible solution to the current problem. speaker-2: engineering is, but it's not, you know, see, well, at the time there, I wouldn't. one other day. speaker-0: That's really cool, Kirk, what you're describing, what I'm hearing is that you took your interests and your passions and you had a couple of different paths and opportunities, but you had some different motivations as to the direction you were going. So you started off in the Air Force and as our students may know from doing some research, you retired from the Air Force, so thank you so much for your service. ⁓ And it's been a few years outside of the Air Force and you're working for this company, ARA. But that's... ⁓ up a little bit. You also spent some time at the Air Force Academy. Can you tell us a little bit about what you did there? speaker-2: Yeah. Interestingly enough, ⁓ is works is when you're on duty and you're going to go to the tab, right? I, you know, placing the air force. speaker-3: Sure, absolutely. So, way the Air Force typically, someone asked if it pick up, so you get sponsored by, know, it's part of an agency, out in the, of course, in this case, was the Air Force Academy was looking for instructors. And they were trying to change the composition of their workforce and faculty for a variety of reasons. speaker-2: And at the time which we don't need to go in here. ⁓ got a phone call from a guy that I worked with. speaker-3: So here's networking, right? I worked with this guy when I was in the, together really sharp guy. was in a caddying red himself. I had talked to him probably like two years at that point. And I got, and he said, Hey, I heard you're interested in looking to get a PhD. doctoral programs was interested in and like was actively pursuing. said, Hey, he's like, we'll pay for this program. If common instructor, professor, that's like the easiest decision. speaker-2: the Senate, lab to. phone call. ⁓ And at the time it had some. ⁓ You if you want to be there for this academy, said never, Brian. you know, that's how that came to be. And, know, got my PhD. I, I, I, ⁓ speaker-3: That's so. And so I went. My master's degree first, so I only took three years to get the PhD. speaker-2: And then I you know, ⁓ the Academy time and so my assignment was I Mean teach cadets and was very boarding ⁓ I to be taught ⁓ in Air Force Academy, which is 15 which is electromagnetic speaker-3: Right I made was to go be a professor at the Air Force Academy. So very rewarding opportunity. So that's essentially how that the ⁓ most hated class. Next, which every cadet has to take at least the core. speaker-2: or lower level one. And I to that school and it was a very unique and rewarding experience for me. speaker-3: to see everybody that goes. special experience. speaker-0: That is awesome. All right, well, you shared a little bit about your professional path, your journey. ⁓ ⁓ we get to the students, tell us a little bit about what keeps you busy outside of work and outside of physics. Like I know personally, because I've seen the things, but share with the students what your personal interests are. And bonus question, how do you integrate that into your daily life or into the that you make these days? speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-3: Absolutely. as I progressing older, I had kids. speaker-2: You know, was probably my late 20s, like when the first son was born, you know, when you have kids and you kind of ramp up your adult, you know, speaker-3: your personal time scopes down quite a bit. so you have to figure out ways of prioritizing things properly. You know, ⁓ other people first besides your career. Travel involved in a lot of cases by early. speaker-2: You know, your schedule is do 9-5 job and you're- and some of my earlier assignments that I for the military, doing this balancing act of enough for myself. And the answer is usually, yeah. I've had to give up, sometimes ⁓ I like lift and work on the gym. I built myself a home gym. ⁓ speaker-3: afternoon. And sometimes you just have to be flexible like today. speaker-2: Might be the day that I work out in the afternoon or I might go running in the morning or whatever, but. Squeeze it in there. Um, so, you know, staying fit has always been something that. Since, know, I was, you know, okay. speaker-3: Usually you just have to come. the military's and grain. You know, certainly before when I was playing high school sports, kind of kept with it. so I have a lot of different interests. Most of them are expect talking a little nerdy stuff like with ⁓ speaker-2: And You know, as you would I was completely involved in the lunar mission, the Artemis mission that's been going on the past couple days and talking about it. I think ⁓ it's just keeping the light. speaker-3: Ask them, my kids and wife are sick of it. You know, it's all there. And so, you know, I think one of the things I've noticed that sort of like rotating groups of hobbies and interest. Always give me something to fall back on stressed out or, I'm tired. Or today I always have something that makes me happy. A recent that was sort of a self speaker-2: as they've gotten old. I'm like. You know, it's a bad week. You're going to have those. Or I can go and be like, Hey, this is something uniquely. I have that the one that actualization was scuba diving, ⁓ you know, ⁓ took the classes and done it, you know, it's really involved. speaker-3: Always wanted to be a scuba diver, just never quite, you know. the dives and whatever if you've fair process I got certified last year finally at the ripe old age of 48. I'm so far and some were. If a sharks ⁓ sunken ships and stuff like that so. It's always good to have something. ⁓ speaker-2: and went on about 10 amazing dives with you know on a really you know stuff like that thing in your pocket that you definitely is uniquely interesting that you know makes you happy speaker-3: to use. speaker-0: Great, thank you for sharing that Kirk. Yeah, I've been following along with your travel journey. So been fun. We're gonna hop over now to our students where they get to ask questions. speaker-4: first question is what values from early life through education do you hold to this day in your career and everyday life? speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-3: sure. That's a great. So being an Air Force officer. The first before self. speaker-2: question. You know, integrity, know, all we do was sort of the. I'll also add in, speaker-3: the three that we were taught. kind a balance being like the folks who have talent. Well, the folks that work hard can outpace the people who have the talent. So being there and working hard, sometimes ⁓ you through those humps. saw a lot of people get stuck. speaker-2: I want the folks that work hard, right? Sometimes. doesn't show up, right? And so, you know, being there and working will keep you going and get you back on things, you know, over my You know, they may have been, you ⁓ but they didn't go and they just decided I don't want to climb that off school. I'm gonna go do something else. speaker-3: on paper the best person. Just they got him ran to an officer. And a lot of times the people that just took that one extra step. speaker-2: Right that you know went over the office Opened up a hole, you know much large ⁓ ⁓ The balls And you're attending your brain I just spend a little bit further Stop right and so taking an extra step to get the ball. It's a ground ball whether speaker-3: Go. ⁓ So like another sport that you're constantly talking like, you know, ball so they get this total time coming to you, right? And see, I can reach it. But every coach will tell you just take one more. whether it's a fly ball, whether it's a soccer ball, somebody's trying to intercept the pass or when I played hockey, it's like intercept the pass on hockey or something. Take that one extra step. A lot of times that makes a difference. speaker-2: Like that. And all of the. speaker-5: That's so good, Kirk. And it's also applicable coming from you. And set the Air Force Academy. Hey, if that talk to professor to get this question answered instead of eating yourself, you know, with the book that's so helpful. So thank you for that. Let's go to Ilyne. name, speaker-0: taught students. That one next step is to go to We share. speaker-4: So my question was that going to the Air Force change your mentality in the workspace speaker-2: Changing my mentality. speaker-3: I'll say that I had a speaker-2: A lot of really solid people that were there were some very, good leadership examples. ⁓ I ⁓ work in an environment where everybody, know, how we're going to. Everybody mission first, you know, that kind of stuff. Right. ⁓ it really cemented the idea that, ⁓ you it takes things to get done. speaker-3: with. throughout my career. I that for the most part, was really nice to work with to sort of like, hey, here's where court documents agree to tackle a problem. It was like, ⁓ people always... really sort of. Yes. speaker-2: whether that's material that you have to design or purchase or, you know, speaker-3: design. somehow to do the task at hand. speaker-2: But it requires you to maintain a company that's willing, able, and confident to do the mission. making that all come together, my roles from a young officer to speaker-3: cadre of people who are also. sort of their over time as a groom or a retired officer is really getting to see that sort of lot of people have different skills. speaker-2: a bigger picture of like, it takes a lot and a and to get this particular task done on time. one the things that I learned in the military, and the position I'm in now, where I have a bunch of folks who are, know, scientists and program managers, I've got analysts and other people helping all of the projects to help the department. speaker-3: And so a lot of those things carried over directly. experts in certain things as engineers. have that cost folks that helping us run all of these programs. We're to war out solve their hard problems. So I think those are kind of the things I from a career or two. Also fortunate some of the folks I work with are also speaker-2: that know, a military transition. My current role, it's former military, they're veterans, they're retirees. ⁓ speaker-3: even though they're different services, right? So I might work with somebody from. speaker-2: the army or navy or or something like that you know jokes about crayons with them it's a you got a core you speaker-3: to talk about still, you know, veteran sort of ethos that everybody carries forward and people. speaker-2: you can rely on this. And so that's kind of the thing. Yeah. She called me up and I know her, you know, she's a bachelor. Like about another, she was, she could ask us and she called me up and I had her work on a project for us and it was great. It was just one of those things where the job done, but not only by, she was speaker-3: So like I mean, like. And I went to ROTC with her and I was of course. And I was just talking to her, a friend of ours, he's also an ROTC. I knew she would get on, she was trying to use a commander. speaker-2: So she had a bunch of people underneath her. knew she'd get it done and on time and it would be high quality and she delivered it. so trust is another one of those things that you grow in the military. speaker-0: So it's that com, what I'm hearing is that camaraderie, that teamwork and discipline, right? And so all of that, no matter the fact that you're in high school or when you go to college or when you go straight into your job, people are watching. They are gonna see. And the fact that you guys can stay connected, and I did not grow up per se in the world ⁓ where got to stay connected. Even when we graduated college, we didn't have social media. We had to either remember each other's phone numbers. You know, had emails, thank goodness. speaker-2: Totally. speaker-0: But that's how we stayed connected. so you guys, it's so much easier with like LinkedIn, you had to be able to say, hey, remember we were in high school together or whatever we did undergrad and continuing to grow that network and you're in real life. So thanks again, Kirk, for saying yes to speaking to our students in DC. speaker-5: and social media. actually seeing it. speaker-4: Yeah, I was wondering, know, as someone who likes going to the gym and takes fitness, you pretty seriously too. How does that affect you when like, let's say you're working on something overseas or somewhere far from home? speaker-1: Yeah, so. speaker-2: You know, obviously it can be really tough to get a proper, you know, lifting gym workout in when you're traveling. ⁓ know, there's gyms everywhere. So are some hotels that you can be, you know, part of that have, you know, fairly decent gyms or they have passes to like a gold gym that's nearby. ⁓ But answer sort of more directly, you sometimes you just have to make do with what you have. ⁓ You know, there's been some, you know, places I've gone where I didn't really have the time just because of the way, you know, the meetings were. or whatever task I was assigned to do just took me because the drive time out to the field was, you know, far long, whatever. Sometimes, hey, it just might be like a body weight workout. I can do like burpees, squats, pushups, whatever. can throw a weighted backpack on. I've certainly, I've gone running in all kinds of crazy places because I like to run at least I used to when I was a little bit younger. But I mean, I've run all kinds of places ⁓ when been on and things like that. And you know, it's a good workout. Like you can always find some place to run. We got some interesting stories out of it. ⁓ speaker-3: for sure. ⁓ speaker-0: You just got to make do with where you are. that was a really good and real practical question, Abraham. speaker-4: Hi, I heard that the Air Force requires a lot of like physical training I wanted to know like how long it took you to adjust to these efforts and like get used to them and become who you are today. speaker-2: Yeah, I'll give you a two part answer. Because I came up and played high school sports, when I was a cadet, it was very easy. So naturally, I was used to running a lot, jumping, push ups, sit ups, all that stuff. So early on, probably until I would say 10, 12, maybe a little bit longer into the military, that's when real life started catching up. speaker-3: Sure. speaker-2: Um, and the fitness standards in the military changed over the 20 years that I was in, uh, it went from, know, I would say being a fit, you know, cadet was fairly straight forward. And then you sort of hit this like, well, we're going to make you do these funny, like ergo bike exercises that nobody at the time could figure out how to do or, or go very well on. And they threw that out the window and they changed it and said, all right, we're going to go do this other stuff, which was like push-ups sit-ups. And then there was the 1.5 mile run. Um, speaker-3: school. speaker-2: everybody at the time. So I'm thinking this is probably about 10 years into it. Uh, I will say, uh, they tried to game the system. Okay. So rather than continually working out and, uh, and, sort of like being fit overall, they would play games with like, well, I'm going to, have a month before my fitness assessment, I'm going to do pushups and sit ups every night. And then I'm going to go run on the track. And I had. At the time I was running long, I would say long distances. Like I was doing like 10 mile races and half marathons. I think it had a full marathon at that time too. So I was like already chafed. It wasn't a big deal. So ⁓ had people that try to game the system and inevitably it would end up like you would expect it and they would do far worse than they thought. And so my point here is that you can try to game the fitness in the military by doing and practicing only the events that they retest you on. ⁓ it's far better just to be overall fit and just continually go. I know that the Secretary of War has recently thrown out a lot of the fitness testing and it has kind of revamped the scores. So that was another thing, right? So we get scored on your fitness assessment, not only in Air Force, the other ones do too, so Army, Navy, Marines, that stuff. This was over the 20 years I was in. At some points it was easier for me speaker-3: scoring system changed. ⁓ score better. speaker-2: than other points, increased the ⁓ or said decreased the runtime significantly at some point. And so even if you're really in really good shape to get a perfect score on the run was like really, really hard. And it was a, it was kind of a kick in the face because a lot of us had had worked hard to get a score on the run. And I got it like four years in a row. And then the next year they cut like, I don't know, it was like 30 seconds or something off on time, which for a mountain of half. speaker-3: So right. ⁓ That's. speaker-2: significant impact on your pace. And I just could never, I could never run that fast. The guy was just like, I'm a middle-aged guy at this point, like I'm never going to be that quick. And so I'd always score, we used to call it the body temperature score 98.6. And we used to, we used to laugh about guys who did 98.6 and I was like, Oh man, I just that close, but I'll never get it. speaker-0: So, Kurt, what I'm hearing is that you guys, I I was part of this too, like in the Air Force. So, Kennedy, that's a great question. They did create Air Force standards for us to meet physically. And then throughout the years, would update it and change it. I know that the other services also have their standards, but there were ways to make sure that we what to do, to score on the different events. But bottom line is your government is... speaker-5: and the military wanted to make sure that we stayed healthy and speaker-4: But back to the topic, what do you owe your success to? speaker-2: Overall success, I think I would still go back to being passionate, not giving up on things. I also think just staying true to what I was interested in, regardless of what other people might have said or any obstacles in the way. I kind of always like to think like, I want to get there and I know how to get there. I'm going to follow this path and you just get it done. speaker-3: was. speaker-2: I think that's probably one of the biggest things is just not giving up. If you truly have a passion for something and you truly have objectives, don't let obstacles get in the way. Right. You can always figure out, Hey, if I go talk to this person, I may get around this obstacle. Sometimes I don't have to climb over it. You know, there's sometimes I can remove the obstacle. ⁓ so don't just, just keep focused on what you're interested in. These are going to change as you get older. Like when I was in high school, like you mentioned who, speaker-3: thing cars. Dad, a friend. speaker-2: His dad was a classic car guy and for his 16th birthday, his dad got him a bolt beat up 67 Camaro, right? And so over the two plus years or so, we worked on a high speed from basically a frame, an engine and some wheels to a fully functional car that was restored. And it was just fantastic to work on. I we got to drive it around and it was great. so, I still love cars today. speaker-3: Skoll away. So in par that. ⁓ today. speaker-2: But I don't garage of tools and a lift and all other stuff, but I can still appreciate what a nice car rolls by. ⁓ And being in LA, Ilyne and I can certainly remember all the Lamborghinis and Ferraris at least to run around. But yeah, so I think that's kind of just my kind of overarching, like what I would say, keep me successful. Just keep focused on what your goals and try to get around those obstacles and don't give up. speaker-3: full garage of the first. speaker-0: Good. That's good, Kirk. speaker-4: I was kind of just wondering what it was like teaching in the Air Force, like if it was any different compared to like the work you've done now. speaker-2: Yeah, teaching is definitely a unique experience, completely different from what I'm doing right now. interesting is I didn't have a teaching background. ⁓ pretty much hiring you because you're an officer, ⁓ on paper, you've got all the things that they want or looking for to be a good role model. ⁓ got a good mentoring, you know, qualities. They do interviews and screens, of course. And one of the things you have to get used to is delivering, you know, And so the Air Force, Academy has its own unique lecturing style. And for my particular class, was because it was a core requirement, at least for the one class I taught. when you are dealing with cadets who are a variety of ⁓ and I'll say capability backgrounds when comes to math and science, you you have to teach everybody and the goal is to get everybody through the class, you know, no man behind as best as you can. And so you to, you have to, you know, teach in a manner that is speaker-1: Sure. speaker-2: you know, meeting all the core requirements, but still, you know, address the folks, you know, over on the writing side who are outperformers that might be your top of the class and everybody else down the line, right? dealing with that the first time not having any experience was definitely a challenge. ⁓ I don't think I did probably the first class I taught. mean, you coming into it cold. ⁓ also ⁓ fact that you're getting up in front of, you know, 30 people per which ended up being like 90 cadets a day. speaker-3: door. very well the first. speaker-2: And everybody's coming into that class with a different, you know, personality. They're coming in with different. Sometimes it's had really bad days. So I'm sitting next to a cadet had a really good day. Um, we had a lot of, um, unfortunately there was. That happened to cadet wing and you have to become a counselor. Those are things that I was never trained for. Um, you just have to kind of just roll with it and do the best you can. So, um, it was a very, I think different. speaker-3: levels. some instances where things were really. and a therapist and speaker-2: experience than if I were to say go be a professor at an academic university out the way here. George Mason's a great artist. Get up there, I could write some equations on the board, talk physics for an hour and then walk out the room and just kind of do this, right? I was one on one with cadets all the time. In my office, was tears of joy, tears of sadness, dealing with family issues, kinds of stuff. And so was a very leadership oriented sort of teaching role. speaker-3: corner where I could. speaker-0: That's a great question, Taylor, and it's neat for you guys to hear that perspective from a faculty member. when you do go to college, ⁓ see ⁓ start making those decisions. Do I want to have an experience where I just want to go in, get the ⁓ and in balance? Or do you want to be part of a culture where you truly get to connect with your instructor or faculty member and like Kirk explained, being able to be present for the tears of joy and frustration. while still getting all that great academics. So good question. speaker-2: I would say the Air Force is probably similar at this point to, you know, most of the services where you're going to go in, you know, your, your identity, where you come in could be all over the place, but your identity, when you come out is going to be definitely shifted and changed and focused and molded. Right. And so we go back to sort of what is the core, you know, ethos of the military, you know, you're going to have that sort of like refocus of, Who you are as a person, what are your goals, objectives, it's oriented. You're going to apply to, you're going to take a bunch of probably tests or whatever to figure out what you're good at, like the ASVAB or the AFOQT, which is what we took. Hey, am I going to be a good pilot navigator or something else? And then you're going to also go to these medical boards, where they're going to do all kinds of medical tests on you, make sure you're fit to fight. And then you're going to also then do like we. speaker-3: very team. speaker-2: talked about the physical fitness part of it. We're going to do a bunch of testing and push-ups, sit-ups, running. And then, you know, eventually you're going to go in there. You're going to get your paperwork all signed. You know, you're going to fill out a bazillion forms about who you are, who your family was, security clearance. And then you're going to go and go to training schools and you're going to go live it, breathe it every day from nine to five or whatever the hour if you're a maintainer out on the field, you might be working, you know, speaker-3: I work shift work. ⁓ speaker-2: um three years I was just doing rotating shift work on an office uh and so yeah and you're just going to be you know doing your job you're to be learning about military history you're going to be you know learning about military leadership opportunities um you're going to be there's just a cycle you know annual appraisals awards and all kinds of stuff like that so um it's definitely a unique experience um we don't have a lot of that some of those elements but not all but it's definitely unique I mean speaker-3: for offered. love you. in the civilian workforce on their. speaker-2: Who else is standing on the flagpole at 1700, you know, for tops, right? Or sorry, Rumble. speaker-0: Five o'clock. So I'm going to hop in here a little bit too with what Kirk explained. Some of the basic information I like to share with students who ask about the Air Force. There's the enlisted ranks and there's the officer ranks, right? We used to be able to say, oh, if you go get a college degree, go be an officer. But there are a lot of enlisted personnel now who have their college degree. It really is what kind of job do you want to do? And then you can quickly Google how much do you get paid in the military and then you kind of go in that direction. There's a lot of different benefits that come along with being in the military. But, Kirk already explained it earlier too, you get your education paid through the military. You can, there are different programs. And then also as a veteran, there's some benefits that come out of that. speaker-4: I was wondering ⁓ what helped push you to be a better leader and just kind of role model in things like the Air Force and even your job today. speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. speaker-2: fantastic question. You know, some principles are taught, you know, the Air Force did a lot of put a lot of effort into, you know, providing opportunities for to learn about leadership, whether that's, know, at a class, of course, out of a textbook, whatever ROTC, right, I went through it, we had a bunch of classes on leadership, and they give you a bunch of just kind of like, management studies, case studies, you know, here, you're in this situation, kind of role play this, so we might be in a group setting, kind of like we are today. And you have here's your scenario and you kind of work through it and figure stuff out. then ⁓ as sort of enter the military, and this goes kind of really for any job, right? You have examples of good leadership and you have examples of poor leadership. And you quickly get to see ⁓ in very situations of like, I like what this person did, I don't like what this person did. speaker-3: support speaker-2: And therefore my very first assignment, was kind of like I could bend people into like, okay, they're a good leader and maybe a little bit. And so everybody, you know, kind of like gets through the system. And so you sort of pick up these qualities of leaders that you like, and you kind of say, Yeah, I like what they did. don't like what they did. So you kind of build your little skill set and your own sort of like leadership personality and that through. so when I got out the military, I had experience leading, I'd experienced being led. And so then I transitioned to the civilian job. And then so I picked up my first team here and it was like, okay, I got this. But a little bit different, right? People here are not on the military. lot of people do not have military experience. So I can't look at them and be like, hey, whatever, right? I to use a little bit different motivating factors. So Yeah, there's that too. You have to figure out what motivates people and you have to change your management profile based on the type of person. then the company in the matter right now put me through another management course, which sort of just cemented some of the stuff that I already had learned, but kind of had it recast in a different way that was more applicable to a civilian, you know. ⁓ speaker-3: and their skills and their back. leaders, basically. speaker-0: That's awesome. And Benjamin, we're going to stick with you for a little bit here. ⁓ The information we do have, and I remember your first time in our program, you shared that you are participating with the Boy Scouts, Forestry, and you're interested in biology. Share with Kirk a little bit of what you are, what direction you're kind of leaning in after high school. speaker-4: Yeah, so like being a Boy Scout, I've been really into like, I'm currently the SPL, so I've been really into leadership. That's why I kind of asked that question. But then also, like I said, the biology and stuff, so I'm kind of looking towards some sort of like conservation focus, social work, and or something where I can be hands on and helping people out. speaker-1: Yeah, speaker-2: I mean, I've run into a lot of Scouts, know, both at the Oversea Academy, a lot of kiddos for Scouts. was a Scout, I was a, let's see, a Den leader first, and then was a Den, Den master, I guess they were, I can't remember the ones. ⁓ anyways, I did my stint and Cub Scouts for my kids too. ⁓ leadership, is this a great question? So everyone has their own definition of leadership. What is your definition of leadership? Sounds like you have some experience, so what would you say it is? speaker-4: Personally, I feel like leadership to me is being able to a resource to people to ⁓ direction, but then also being able to step back and really push people to try on their own and build their own opinions and base. I think being a resource to people, but then also trying to ⁓ get to be better and just improve themselves as well. speaker-2: That's good, I like that answer. Shows a little bit of a management ⁓ focus too, not so much just leadership, but also being a good manager of particular resources with us. People are material, right? You have to manage time and money, people, material. That's always been in my job jar right now, I'm pretty much like 24-7. But yeah, leadership, right, is about the classic definition of we're setting a direction, we're going the way. This is what we're going to do and then get everyone to sort of follow you. speaker-3: this week. speaker-2: know, sometimes it's not easy to get people to, you know, orient the same direction. ⁓ you know, it sounds like in the Scouts, you get it, you do, you get, hey, take this group of Scouts and go do X, Y, Z, go get firewood, whatever, build a shelter or something like that. Military basically is the same kind of thing, except you're, you know, different settings and sometimes a lot of different consequences if things go wrong. But yeah, great example. speaker-0: That's good. And Benjamin is in the 10th grade. So you still have some time in high school to continue to hone those leadership skills and keep your mind open to what's out there. We just had a guest recently who shared that there are different experiences and definitions of being able to help people. Right. So I love that you even know that that's what you want to do. You want to hands on help people. But you didn't say being a doctor. I can very much relate. Go and help people in the ways that make you feel fulfilled and that you're making an impact. So thank you for that. Let's go to. speaker-5: to who's next, Ilyne. Ilyne, we. speaker-0: What are you in the 10th grade or 11th grade now? 10th. You're in the 10th grade. Can you share with Kirk what your plans are? are you what are While you're in speaker-4: Thank speaker-5: interested in now. speaker-4: I really like baking and exploring nature and stuff like that. ⁓ then I think for school, the ⁓ that interests me is ⁓ art and I also ⁓ languages. I'm Spanish and then I also take a French class and then I'm trying to learn Mandarin and I also learning Italian. ⁓ So I'm a lot of language stuff. speaker-0: All right, Kurt, can you share a little bit about your experience working with other professionals who have the skill of picking up languages? speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. speaker-2: I've worked with lot of, you know, BAT and trilingual people it's very impressive. Number one, the folks can do that. ⁓ a very, I think, useful skill, not only just practically if you can, you know, talk to people, but also just, I think it irons your brain over time in a very, you know, creative and flexible way that allows people to, you know, maybe have a different way of looking at problems and solving problems. I know that when I was in school, you know, you're in ⁓ speaker-3: Thanks. speaker-2: I lived in Southern California, so Spanish was obviously a huge influence. And so I got a lot of practice. And when I went to college, I decided, hey, you know, I want to go try to learn Russian. And the reason I wanted to do that was because at the time, you know, when I was growing up, like it was Soviet Union and the Soviet Union at the time had a lot of very, I guess, amazing scientists and engineers who built some pretty cool stuff, but it was sort of locked away and the Russian language and textbooks that had not been translated. So when I was at UCLA, it turns out the library had a whole ton of books on, you know, Russian technology that I was just, oh, this is really cool. And I, you know, we'd go get them and a lot of times they were throwing them away. They would like leave them on the steps like here, somebody can pick these up where they're going. So I ended up, you know, taking some time when I was taking Russian classes, like four years at UCLA. And would translate a lot of the stuff, these books and just kind of learn like, how did these people speaker-3: trash. speaker-2: I spoke this entirely different language. speaker-3: language from a completely different culture approach. speaker-2: the same math or physics problem that I'm learning about right now, which is a really interesting way to say like, ⁓ I get this different perspective someone else who's trying to come out the same problem. So I think foreign languages allow you to do that because like, right, you can look around and say, well, what is the word for, you know, ⁓ ⁓ why, what is the etymology? What is it called that in Mandarin? My daughter is six year Mandarin or something like that. And she's going to Taiwan ⁓ summer for an exchange program. And so ⁓ speaker-6: look monitor, you know, man. speaker-3: He's on her. speaker-2: came here and she wrote on the board something about physics and she wrote the characters but ⁓ I was the last, I physics is like here or something like that. She wrote it on their board for me. ⁓ And actually means like, can't, you'll probably tell me what Woo Lee means, but it's something about journey. And it was kind of interesting because I was like, wow, like physics, yeah, it's kind of a journey. Like it's, you know, it's a whole ⁓ set you know, policies and principles that have been laid down thousands of years. And so, speaker-3: I remember one of them. with the speaker-2: It was kind of neat to see that connection. speaker-0: Yeah. All right. Well, Ilyne, I heard that you have that passion for baking and languages. That doesn't necessarily mean that you can all that. But as we continue to hear from different guests, you can to ⁓ pursue a and invest in your So thank you for sharing that. Let's go to Isaac. tell us a little bit about what grade are you in? What are you interested in? What keeps you busy? speaker-4: I'm in 11th grade. What keeps me busy and what I'm interested in is engineering mechanics. What do is part-time, ⁓ usually school, I help my father and my uncle work on their cars. I'm really that because as a kid, I loved playing with toys such as car toys and Legos. That made me invest more into technology such as mechanics. speaker-2: I'll just say like when I was your age, was spinning wrenches myself. I did a lot of it. And you know, still today, I haven't done in a while, but you know, change the brakes on my car, right? So I can still do that fixing stuff in my house. I mean, I love, you got a mechanical gene, you know, and you can use that to your advantage. It's definitely a skill that a lot of people don't have. They kind of look at a pile of parts or maybe a car or an airplane or something and just. It's just black magic for them. It's a black box. They have no idea. But you know, if you have that skill set, very valuable. And in fact, the more that you spin wrenches on stuff, the better problem solver you're going to be. So ⁓ encourage you to keep keep at it. ⁓ when I went from school to Air Force, one of my assignments was in a lab, actually a couple of times in a lab where I was actually like, legit building stuff in a lab with, you know, really cool optics and lasers and all kinds of fun stuff that was really expensive. ⁓ very unique pieces and parts. you know, one of the interesting things about since you worked on cars is some people have unique touches, I'll say, for certain things when you're building things and say like, oh, that guy's really good at doing this, but I have a problem about this, I'm gonna call this guy, he's gonna come in there. And, you know, some guy might have a better capability to test this machine just right that nobody else can do. And it's kind of funny because we used to joke about, hey, you know, speaker-3: Interesting stories and you'll appreciate them. speaker-1: Enjoy. speaker-2: Brian, he's got the magic hands for this machine over here, like let him fix it. And for me, it was a particular alignment technique for these fibers that we had that required just, I don't know, the right twist in the knob and the eye skill and nobody else could do it. And so I was like, ⁓ I'm the guy they call in and do that. ⁓ a lot of opportunities to, you know, to make lives a lot easier and faster ⁓ people sometimes if you have a particular skill set and being a ⁓ you know, bench turner is a pretty good one. speaker-0: So wise to and Isaac the fact that you're expressing you have an interest in engineering and then also if you ⁓ I would also encourage you to look into business, right? So if you already have that that idea working on cars, but also engineering that next level that next to level up go pick up some classes when you get an opportunity speaker-2: underscore that because I had grown up, you know, being in the military business is not really like something you think about or talk about. Certainly a lot of the technical jobs and the times ahead, again, it wasn't important. When I got it, it was very important because guess what? If you don't make a little bit of profit on your projects, you're not going to survive as a company. So having those business skills and understanding what motivates people, how to make a sale, how to start talking to people. I mean, that's like super important. All right. That's my spiel speaker-3: Ha speaker-8: Be well rounded. speaker-4: Thank you. speaker-0: for that in there, Isaac. That was a gift to you. So keep those skills up and be able to launch your business. Let's go back up to Kennedy. Kennedy, what grade are you in? What keeps you busy? What are you interested in? speaker-4: I'm in 10th grade and mostly I've been interested in the mental health fields like psychology field. I want to learn about like thoughts and how the human body works with emotions and how they're regulated. speaker-0: All right, well Kirk, your experience, have you, ⁓ I mean, I know even personally in the Air Force that we had access to mental health care providers ⁓ now In current are there mental health providers ⁓ in your company or do you guys have to that? ⁓ Tell us your experience working with mental health providers. speaker-2: I don't have any particular experience with mental health. Although when I'll go back to my experience as a professor, you definitely have to have basic understanding of the very large dynamic range of human experience and emotions when it comes to people that are in that 18 to 22 year old range. you have to be prepared ⁓ a lot of the mental challenges that everyone goes through. speaker-3: providers. sure. speaker-2: sometimes it comes out of nowhere and people are like, then one semester you might have a kid who's doing great. And the next semester you see them in the hallway and they're not doing so great. And you can kind of sense and be like, something's going on with them. They pull into the office and talk to them. So mental health is a very, very component ⁓ of total course like for the military. you know, we have, you know, if your mental health is not doing well, you're not going to be effective. And it doesn't matter if you're in military or anywhere else. And so I think what's great is speaker-3: expect yet. foreign what's over the past. speaker-2: past 25 years, mental health has gone from something that we used to hide something that people are now very much like, hey, I've got a problem. Instead of saying, my knee hurts, I've got a mental health issue, I'm going to go take care of it. Because wasn't always that way. And you get into the topics like self-medication, which is some very self-destructive things that people can do to help try to solve those problems for themselves rather than go into professional. And that can spiral into all kinds of bad things. And so I know that, ⁓ my wife, ⁓ got a psychology degree. ⁓ got her master's and I think it was psychology or forensic psychology. And does work in that field, but she still relies on it she still thinks it's really interesting. And so it's a very appropriate, there's a lot of opportunity out there for In fact, my understanding is that there's such orders of therapists and counselors speaker-3: terminal. speaker-2: for mental health and not only this area but for everyone in the country that it's pretty much get certified and you can probably find your own practice. I mean, that may be an overstatement, but it's my current understanding based on a woman of mine who has her own practice in California and she said it's just constant people and just there's not enough therapists to go around. speaker-3: which another front. speaker-0: Yeah, well, Kennedy, just know that you'll have a lot of school and that, you know, it takes a certain person. And if that's somebody like that you are expressing now, I can see you smiling. That's Continue ⁓ to read about it, research about it, ask the questions, ⁓ because definitely need more people who are interested in being mental health care providers. Thank you for sharing that. Let's go to ⁓ Abraham. grade are you in? What are you interested in? What do you plan on doing? speaker-4: ⁓ I'm in 11th grade. Something that I find interesting, ⁓ he was talking earlier to Isaac, was ⁓ maybe business related. But I'm not entirely sure about what. Something I am interested in is engineering too. So, yeah. speaker-1: Well, speaker-2: You teed it up, thank you for the segue. having a product there, just it's cool doesn't always mean like there has to be a market. So understanding the market for your product is very, important. Also, the other thing that comes along with it is how do you make money off a product or a service that you're going to provide? Because if you're not profitable you're always underwater it's not going to go. speaker-3: it's gonna sell in your water. speaker-2: so, you know, ⁓ always this sort of tension between the ⁓ engineering will tell you you can do and the art of like, well, business wise, it's not going to last. So I have a lot of. speaker-3: art of the possible. long term. a current project. ⁓ speaker-2: ⁓ work on that is involved with private equity, right? So private equity is throwing a ton of money at this particular problem. There is very ⁓ risk, technically, that thing will not work the way that they think it will, even though they got some of the best and brightest in the nation working. ⁓ And there's a huge risk, right? Out of the waste of money. And so right now we're trying to go through risk reduction strategies to help ⁓ speaker-3: This is very odd. working on it. help ensure that. speaker-2: Technically this is things going to work and we're not trying to chase unobtainium and like it's never. Also, there's a business aspect to down the line is well, once we build it, how do we extract, how do we make a profit? And that we're building. Going to provide. And so somebody has to do that math. and somebody has to understand, like, do you have the market rate? Do you have the interest level calibrated? So whatever you're trying to do and a lot of technical people don't have that skill yet. speaker-3: out and they're going with some money. How would we make a return on this thing in the service that we're. speaker-2: They can develop it. And a lot of business people just clearly don't understand how the thing works. And so getting all those people in the room together and keeping them kind of moving down the pipe and like in a working is a skill of its own. so, yeah, it's very important to understand engineering fundamentals and principles of what's possible versus, yeah, business-wise, this isn't going to work out. Like some ⁓ are, they work on paper, but they're not profitable and you just won't sustain it. speaker-3: inherent. speaker-0: I think also, so Abraham, if you have an interest in engineering, just even look at some of the basic things. And this is going to be some practical advice, too. If you're on social media, I'm not on TikTok, but I hear there are a lot of quick little short form videos that you can find out, like, oh, what do I need to know about engineering? You can learn about the different types of engineering and what is going to pique your interest the most. There's civil engineering, electrical engineering, mechanical. and bioengineering, all of that, and then kind of just see what piques your interest. And it's early enough for you to doing that research. we like tell people, you don't have to decide now, but have an interest and start doing that research. ⁓ for all you guys ⁓ on call, because as getting to know you guys, this is your first session with us, just let us a peek into what you're most interested in. We're not going to say this is a great job for you. What we're going to share is our experience with other people who have had similar interests that may help you move in that direction or give you a starting place to do some research. you for sharing that. Abraham, we have two more students and just a few more minutes left. Let's go to Taylor. Share with us, what grade are you in? What are you interested in? What keeps you busy in high school? speaker-4: I'm in the 10th grade. I do a lot of hands-on activities to keep myself busy. I cook and I bake and play the guitar. I build miniature houses sometimes ⁓ when I'm bored. Yeah, I just do a lot of hands-on stuff. speaker-0: Kirk, do want to hop in there? speaker-1: Yeah, speaker-2: I'm also a fellow student of the guitar and I want to emphasize students This another one of those things that I had always wanted to do ⁓ And get a chance to until I was much older and so, you know back when I lead and I were coming up and it was you know, The wheel and fire had just been invented ⁓ there YouTube videos ⁓ and weren't apps ⁓ and were all these sort of really cool technologies to help learn play an instrument and speaker-3: all the speaker-2: And so the last couple of years between YouTube videos and apps, I picked up a guitar. I learned not only how to play basic songs, but I also know how to string a guitar. I know how to tune it. Like all these great things that, probably would have, you know, required me to go find an instructor and pay a bunch of money. I basically did it for free. I mean, the apps cost a little bit, but whatever. Also, eBay wasn't a thing, right? So it was like, oh, I can go buy 30, 50 guitars I can buy for 200. I wasn't the best choice to go to music store and it was overpriced. speaker-3: are. $50,000 was before the case was over. speaker-2: ⁓ But anyways, you know the that you have a bunch of different and already a very good signal I find that most people who are successful also have a lot of passions and interests because You know, can of like put your ⁓ your mind at when you're working on these things But you can invest time and getting better in a skill I think you mentioned baking and cooking. I also like to cook I'm not very good Baker, but I like to cook and things like that. My wife is an amazing cook speaker-3: is on. Let's go. speaker-2: But you know just kind of like like I think someone's a leveling up right and hobbies and things like that and being creative allows you to do that like every day like one of my principles I think it's called Kaizen is the Japanese tarp or is like get 1 % better every day I mean, that's not mathematically saying but it's you know, try to do a little bit more every day like That's very with that struggle, right? It's like this chord is really hard speaker-3: take that extra next. So with guitar you're familiar with speaker-2: I can't play it right now, but maybe in a month I can do it if I keep working on it. Or the song where I have to go from this string to this string and change my fingers and all this other stuff. Where the drumming pattern is just hard. I mean, you're familiar with what I'm talking about. think you play guitar. speaker-3: the I do. speaker-7: We are remembered. speaker-0: I was going to hop in and share with you, Taylor, is that, again, just like Ilyne had shared as far as having some direction and some interest, but then also being able to take some of your passion and continue to pour into that. So I was in the Air Force when, just like Kirk, I decided I grew up playing the piano and the violin. I was going to teach myself the guitar. I did that. And then I ⁓ was of a band and then also performing with or leading worship with my church. So just found ways that I was able to figure out how to learn something and then just pour all that extra brain, all those extra brain cells and minutes in my day to something I was really passionate about. So you guys have so much time and so many resources to do that. We are almost done, but I do want to sneak in Derek here. Derek, tell us what grade are you in? What are your interests? speaker-4: in the 11th grade. Just like I think it was Taylor who said this, I'm currently in psychology right now, which is like the AP kind vision of it. And I really want to go into that field and really focus more on teen mental health because I feel like it's kind of more under looked in that aspect. But I'm also really passionate about also like building like computers and stuff. So. speaker-0: Wow, we have another one that has a lot of different interests there from psychology to computers. So you're hands on, but you want to also help people. what did you pick up from our conversation today with Kirk? speaker-4: a lot about how you can tie my interest and leadership into different careers and then also just I really was impacted by how he balanced out work and extra ⁓ outside and making sure he networked and made connections. speaker-0: That's awesome. Awesome. Yeah. You guys are seeing real life networking in action here. Kennedy, there was one thing that you picked up that can help make you feel like you're a little bit closer to your dreams and desires and what you want to do. would that be? What did you pick up today? speaker-4: I think like trying hard no matter what and not doubting yourself can like get you very far. speaker-0: That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, you guys were definitely listening. Kirk, final words of encouragement or wisdom to share with our students from International. speaker-1: you speaker-2: Yeah, no, thank you for having me on today. Your show is fantastic opportunity to talk to everybody. know, I'll say the thing I was the most is, you guys are your guys are coming up. You're a different generation than Ilyne and I. And I tell my kids kind of the same thing like you're to be shaped by what's going on right now. What easy for us is not going to the same for you guys. You're going to to chart your own path and you're going to solve your own problems. You know, I'm surprised actually that no one brought this up. But AI is a good example of that. And I told my daughter this the other day. Um, you know, how do you guys bring AI into your life or into the workforce? Like I, I'm kind of, you know, I'm almost got retirement age. I'm getting there probably like five more years before I'm kind of done. Um, but you guys are coming up and you guys are gonna have to make decisions about how best to employ it. Um, when to use it, when not to use it and all these kinds of other things that you're going to just in a few years, uh, you're going to have to make decisions on as a group, as a cohort of individuals. uh, you guys are, believe mostly Gen Z. So you guys have your own. speaker-3: work is going to be your problem. speaker-2: you know, context of how things are and what you grew up with and you'll carry that forward into the workforce. And, know, you'll have a manager who's like my age and probably someone a little bit younger, but ⁓ have their own perspectives. And so just understand that ⁓ in a different generational perspective, when you have these very like large workforces and very, you know, large ranges and ages, everyone's got their own unique skills and talents and backgrounds certain the context of how they grew up and things like that. So. have to always factor it into your management approach ⁓ problem solving as a team in general. So just keep that in mind. speaker-0: Awesome. Well, thank you so much, for joining us with our students from DC International, including Benjamin, Ilyne, Kennedy, Taylor, Isaac, and Derek. You've been listening to AccessCo Leaders Career Conversations. We'll see you next time. Thanks so much. Bye-bye.