Latest / The Internal Move Podcast with Fexingo: Lateral Roles, Internal Transfers, and Staying at Your Company / How an Internal Transfer Can Help You Navigate a Mid-Career Pivot
Transcript
- Lucas: So we talk a lot on this show about moving within your company — but usually we're talking about the person who's been in a role for two years, maybe three, and they're looking for a change. Luna: Right, the early- to mid-career transfer where you're still building your resume. Lucas: Exactly. But what about the person who's been in the same function for a decade or more? The marketing director who's been at the same consumer goods company for fifteen years and suddenly realizes she wants to move into product management. Luna: That is a harder sell, isn't it? Both to yourself and to the hiring manager. Lucas: It is. And I think it's an under-discussed scenario. So today I want to look at a specific case — a woman I'll call Sarah, who made exactly that pivot at a large CPG firm last year. She went from VP of Brand Marketing for a snack division to Senior Director of Product for a new health-conscious line. Luna: And she did that internally, without leaving the company. Lucas: Correct. She'd been at the company for fifteen years, all in marketing. She had a strong reputation, deep relationships, but she felt she'd plateaued. She wanted to be closer to the actual product decisions. Luna: So what was her first move? Lucas: She started with what she called 'skill mapping' — but not the typical kind. She didn't just list her marketing competencies. Instead, she looked at the product management job descriptions for three different roles within her company and mapped her marketing experience onto each required skill. Luna: So she was looking for overlap, not gaps. Lucas: Exactly. And she found that her brand strategy work — understanding consumer needs, running focus groups, positioning products — directly translated to the 'voice of customer' and 'market research' parts of product management. She also had experience with P&L ownership, which is huge for product roles. Luna: But what about the technical side? Product managers often need to work with engineering teams, understand data pipelines, that kind of thing. Lucas: She was honest about that gap. She didn't pretend to be a data scientist. But she framed it as 'I know how to ask the right questions and interpret the results — I just don't build the dashboards myself.' And she committed to taking a part-time internal data literacy course the company offered. Luna: That shows a willingness to invest in herself, which managers like to see. Lucas: It does. And she did something else smart: she built a coalition before she even applied. She identified three people whose buy-in would matter most — the VP of Product, the head of HR for the product division, and a senior product director she'd worked with on a cross-functional launch two years earlier. Luna: So she leveraged her existing network. Lucas: Exactly. She scheduled informal coffee chats with each of them, not to ask for the job, but to get their perspective on the product function and what it needed. She asked questions like, 'What's the hardest part of the role right now?' and 'What skill would you love to see in a new hire that's hard to find?' Luna: That's smart because she's gathering intelligence while also positioning herself as thoughtful and curious. Lucas: She also planted a seed. In each conversation, she mentioned, almost casually, that she'd been thinking about how her marketing background might apply to product. She didn't say 'I want your job' — she said 'I'm exploring.' Luna: That feels very different from a cold application. By the time she formally applied, those three people already saw her as a potential candidate. Lucas: And one of them — the senior product director — became her internal champion. He told the VP of Product, 'I've worked with Sarah on three launches. She thinks like a product person even though her title says marketing. You should at least talk to her.' Luna: That endorsement is gold. So she gets the interview. What happens next? Lucas: She asked for something that I think is crucial for any mid-career pivot: a trial period. She proposed a three-month 'project assignment' where she'd work half-time on a product initiative while still covering her marketing responsibilities. That way, the product team could evaluate her without a full commitment. Luna: That's a clever risk mitigation strategy. It also shows confidence — you're betting on yourself. Lucas: Exactly. And it addressed the hiring manager's biggest fear: that she wouldn't be able to make the transition. By the end of the three months, she had delivered a consumer insights framework that the product team adopted, and she'd earned the trust of the engineering lead. Luna: So the trial period worked. She got the role. Lucas: She did. But there's a piece of this that's less talked about: compensation. She took a lateral move — same pay band, no raise. And in fact, she lost her annual bonus for that year because she changed roles mid-cycle. Luna: That's a real cost, and one that people don't always consider when they're excited about the pivot. Lucas: Right. She told me she calculated it cost her about fifteen thousand dollars in forgone bonus and stock vesting. But she saw it as an investment. Within eighteen months, she was promoted to Senior Director, and her total compensation exceeded what she would have made staying in marketing. Luna: So the bet paid off, but it required patience. Lucas: And it required her to negotiate something else — a 'stay bonus' of sorts. She asked her new manager to guarantee that if she performed well in the first year, she'd be considered for the next promotion cycle. She got that in writing. Luna: That's a great tactic. It gives her a clear timeline and accountability. Lucas: Now, I should say — not every mid-career pivot goes this smoothly. One risk is that you lose the political capital you built in your old function. Sarah had to rebuild relationships with a new set of stakeholders. She told me the first six months felt like being new to the company, even though she'd been there fifteen years. Luna: Because you're starting from scratch in terms of trust, even if you know the building. Lucas: Exactly. And there's also the risk that your old team resents you for leaving. Sarah's former boss was supportive, but she heard through the grapevine that some of her old direct reports felt abandoned. She had to spend time managing those relationships too. Luna: So the emotional labor is real. It's not just a skills pivot — it's a social pivot. Lucas: That's a perfect way to put it. And I think that's the part that's hardest to prepare for. You can map your skills, you can build a coalition, you can negotiate a trial period — but you can't fully anticipate how it will feel to lose your identity as 'the marketing person' and have to prove yourself all over again. Luna: So what's the takeaway for someone listening who's thinking about a similar move? Lucas: I'd say three things. One: do the skill mapping but be brutally honest about gaps — and have a plan to close them. Two: build your internal coalition before you apply, not after. Three: consider a trial period to de-risk the move for both you and your future manager. Luna: And be prepared for the compensation trade-off, but negotiate guardrails for the future. Lucas: Right. And I want to add — this is a topic where the specifics really matter. Sarah's story is one path, but it's not the only one. If you're listening and you've made a mid-career pivot internally, we'd love to hear how you did it. Luna: And if this episode has helped you think through your own career move, we appreciate that you're here. This show is ad-free, and it stays that way because listeners like you support it at buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. Lucas: Yeah, it's a small way to keep these conversations going. And we mean it when we say every contribution helps us invest in better guests and deeper research. Luna: Alright, so back to Sarah — she also mentioned one thing I want to highlight. She said the biggest surprise was how much her marketing skills actually helped her in product. She thought she'd be starting from zero, but she wasn't. Lucas: That's a good reminder. When you've been in one function for a long time, you underestimate the value of your own experience. The ability to understand consumer behavior, to craft a narrative, to influence without authority — those are not soft skills. They're core product skills. Luna: Absolutely. So if you're a ten-year marketer thinking about product, or a ten-year engineer thinking about product management, don't sell yourself short. Lucas: And don't wait for the perfect moment. Sarah told me she'd been thinking about the move for two years before she actually did it. The catalyst was a reorganization that opened up the product role. But she had laid the groundwork long before. Luna: So the lesson is: start the coalition building and skill mapping now, even if you're not ready to move yet. Lucas: Exactly. That way, when opportunity knocks, you're not starting from scratch. Luna: Great episode. Thanks, Lucas. Lucas: Thanks, Luna. Talk to everyone next time.