Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / The Secret to a Long Career? Have More Fun. Lessons From Stephen Colbert’s Head Writer Ariel Dumas

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The Secret to a Long Career? Have More Fun. Lessons From Stephen Colbert’s Head Writer Ariel Dumas · QUESTION EVERYTHING

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: No one has all the answers, but when we ask
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: the right questions, we get a little closer, closer to truths,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: closer to each other, even closer to ourselves. I'm journalist
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Danielle Robe, and each week, my guests and I come
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: together to challenge the status quo and our own ways
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: of thinking by daring to ask what if, why not?
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: And who says?
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: So?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Come curious, dig deep, and join the conversation. It's time
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: to question everything. Almost nothing you love ends when you
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: want it to. Not to be a bummer, but really
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: think about it. The job, the era, the relationship, the
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: version of your life that finally felt like it was working.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Most of it doesn't get a farewell tour. It gets
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: taken somebody else decide, and then you have to keep
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: on living and the only thing left is how you
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: carry it out the door. Now I've noticed there are
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: two kinds of people. There are people who spend the
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: rest of their lives arguing with the ending.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: I understand that.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: And then there are people who somehow leave reflecting, not
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: because it didn't hurt, but because they discovered something the
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: rest of us haven't. And I wanted to talk to
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: someone who just lived that in public on television.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: You have maintained such grace through this process. I would
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: not I would not have.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: Made that fun. I'm having fun with my friends.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: That's how Now.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: That's Stephen Colbert and John Stewart on the final night
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: of The Late Show thirty three years after David Letterman
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: launched the franchise. The lights went out at the Ed
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Sullivan Theater. And it wasn't because the show stopped working.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: The Late Show was still the most watched show in
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: late night number one for nine straight years. Colbert even
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: joked that he might become the first host in history
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: to get camp Wall in first place.
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: So this isn't a story about failure. It's a story
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: about doing almost everything right and still reaching an ending
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: you didn't choose. And honestly, that's the scarier story, because
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: we all like to believe that if we work hard enough,
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: become good enough, or stay grateful enough, the things we
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: love will keep going.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: And life doesn't really work that way. So I'm gonna
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: take it back for a second. I was a political
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: science and communications double major. I spent a lot of
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: time studying television. There's more to learn than you would think,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: and one thing I learned is that Late Night was
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: never really about the jokes. It was about the company.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Because for decades, millions of Americans ended their day with
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: the same familiar voice at the same familiar hour, Johnny Carson,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: David Letterman, Stephen Colbert. They weren't just watching a show,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: they were participating in a ritual. Back then, we all
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: watched together. There were only a handful of channels. The
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: monologue at the beginning became a national conversation because the
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: nation was actually watching the same thing at the same time.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: And today I don't think the audience has disappeared. It's
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: just scattered. One person watches a clip at two PM,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: and other watches on TikTok before bed. Someone else sees
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: it three days later because the algorithm decided to show
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: it to them. A joke watched alone on your phone
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: is a fundamentally different experience than a joke watched together
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: at eleven thirty five PM with millions of other people.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: One is content, the other is culture. So what ended
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: wasn't just a television show. It was one of the
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: last rituals that we had for being together, even while
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: we were apart. And if that doesn't make sense. Think
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: about your time during COVID. Those late night shows, even
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: when they were virtual, kept us together even while we
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: were apart. And that brings me to today's guest. Ariel
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Duma spent more than a decade writing that ritual. She
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: was head writer of The Late Show with Stephen Colbert,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: earning thirteen Emmy nominations across The Late Show and The
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Colbert Report, and she just lived through its ending. So
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: today she's pulling back the curtain not just on what
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: it's like when your dream job ends, but on what
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: actually mattered all along, On finding your voice in a
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: room full of comedy legends, on navigating imposter syndrome, taking
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: creative risks, and realizing that even a dream job is
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: still a job until the people make it something more.
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: I think that is the most important thing in this
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: specific career, in this specific industry, because it is so
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: hard and soul crushing. So if it's not fun, you're
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: going to turn into dust. You have to have a
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: good time, and that's contagious.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: The institution ended, the ritual ended, the lights went out,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: with the friendships, the joy, the laughs, the rooms she
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: built with those people. Well could cancel that, Maybe that's
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: the lesson. You don't get to choose how most things end,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: but you do get to choose what you take with you.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: So here's the question I'm throwing to you today. What
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: if the secret to a great career isn't grinding harder,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: but having more fun. It's time to question everything with
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Ariel Duma. So, Ariel, for more than a decade, you
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: have been one of the people helping us process the
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: world through comedy at the Late Show with Stephen Colbert,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: and I think for years your life had rhythm and
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: pitch and you would rewrite and tape and repeat. What
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: is the strangest part of waking up and realizing that
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: nobody needs a monologue from you tonight?
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: The strangest thing is being so disconnected from what is
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: going on in the world unless I actively seek it
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: out or I stumble across it on social media. I'm
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: not actively digesting and processing the national conversation every morning,
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: and it'll be exactly a month two days ago, and
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: I can't tell if I miss it.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: I mean I miss the people. I missed the process.
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: For the first couple of weeks, I was like, great,
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: I don't need I do not need to be bothered
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: to explain the strait of Hormuz again, Like I don't
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: need to have to find some relatable emotion about that situation, Yeah,
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: and then explain it with jokes. So that's nice, But
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: I actually I think I'm starting to miss it. I'm
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: starting to get a little itchy.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I remember when I stopped doing entertainment news. I felt
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: such a relief that my brain wasn't full of like
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: what Justin Bieber and Selena Gomez and Kim Kardashian were
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: doing and wearing and eating. Yeah, and it made space
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: for all this other stuff. Are you feeling that at all?
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I I am.
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: I actually need to I think preface everything, this entire experience,
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: the Late Show ending as an institution, our Late Show
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: with Stephen Colbert, ending my illustrious TV career as a
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: head writer, supervising producer coming to an end. I haven't
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: had time to mourn and process it because a week,
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: almost exactly a week after the show ended, my father
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: in law died suddenly. And he I mean shout out
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: to Judge Larry Ecker. He was pillar of his community,
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: larger than life, actually, very tall, big mustache guy, was
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: a supreme court justice in the state of New York,
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: came to last episode, funniest, best user of profanity, adored.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: By everyone in his community and community, and it's like.
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: Larry's gone, and to be I actually think that to
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: be thinking about things like what are we doing with
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: our lives? What are we doing to make meaning in
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: our lives for other people? What are we doing to
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: have fun? Because like Larry love to have fun, even
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: when he's in the Westchester County courtroom, like deciding on
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: a family law case. He's like a fun guy. And
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: I think that all of those feelings are I think
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: asking those questions and being in this weird period of
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: grief have helped me to not dwell, not dwell on
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: the loss of the Late Show, even though I know
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: it's also going to hit me, I think in probably
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: a weird way in the middle of the grocery store
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: at some random moments, going to.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: But you've had so much transition, it sounds like I
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: didn't know about.
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sorry to spring that on you, but it's
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: just been devastating and I'm just like excited to talk
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: about the Late Show, but also to talk sort of
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: larger about.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Like what are we doing with our lives? What's meaningful?
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: And what is our goal with our art and with
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: our work and with our daily practice of living.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: What's our goal here? What are we doing?
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: Know?
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Well, it's all intertwined.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: I think art focuses our attention, and artists are so
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: valuable because they see things before we all do. I
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: put you in that category.
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: Oh thank you, So I sort of have this feeling
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: art might come out of all of what you're feeling
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: right now.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Oh thank you. I hope.
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: So it's fun that you say. It's very flattering of
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: you to say that, because most days were like oh
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: Trump's But you know, it's just like there was so
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: much about this administration that is just unintentionally funny on
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: their part, like the fact that his hand was so
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: banged up and he keeps the keeping like he shakes
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: so many hands of brave Americans and it's like, okay,
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: but he's like got a hematoma on that he's covering
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: up with like pancake makeup.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: It's really funny.
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: The fact that they haven't taken the tarps down from
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: the Kennedy Center to like Hut. The news at times
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: was so funny on its own that it was difficult
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: to make jokes about. You know, that's interesting that it was,
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: like you if I had written this as part of
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: a pilot or if this you know, people at the
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: beginning of this administration would talk about like, oh, this
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: is like veep almost the fact that this the reflecting
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: pool renovation was such a big friggin deal, and then
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: a couple weeks later, it's like peeling off, and yeah,
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: it's very funny anyway.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: So I want to talk about all the meaningful things,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: but I do have to ask you about your wrap
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: party first, because it made headlines. The dress code was
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: fired in festive. Yes, so I have a hard time
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: knowing what casual chic is. How do you dress for
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: fired in festive? Oh, fired in festive?
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: I think it really like let our staff feel whatever
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: they wanted to feel in a.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Fun, loud way.
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: So for some people that was like for a lot
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: of the guys on this stuff, bless their hearts, it
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: was like they are going to wear their one nice
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: party shirt, you know, and that's like that's what their
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: attire is going to be. For women, you know, it
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: was it was basically cocktail, but it felt kind of
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: happ a angry like there was sort of this like
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: zesty fury running through all of our blood that I
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: think was that's what that's what people were.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: But I will say, you.
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: Know what's funny. We all were black. Everyone wore black,
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: all the all the staff. Rightly, most people were black.
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: That's just what you were feeling. That was a manifestation. Yeah,
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: and the funeral, you should, I mean, that's sorry.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: That show.
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: The show that day was extremely difficult. There were a
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: lot of moving pieces that a lot of big clubs,
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: and there were a lot of writing to do.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Billy Crystal what oh my god.
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: Amazing every I mean, Paul McCartney, the big finish. So
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: we were all working our real jobs that last day,
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: Like it was a hard regular show if it was
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: a special show.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: But then so then we didn't really go get glam.
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: We all ran upstairs and like hiked on our spanks
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: and our offices, and when we came out of our offices,
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: everyone was.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Like wearing black, and I was like it was like
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: a little.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Spooky that's actually really interesting. Well, it was the most
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: memorable moment for you of the night.
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: I just like there were several like John Batiste on
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: the dance floor, with his family. Was great looking seeing
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: like those celebrities and then seeing like all the graphics
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: guys together talking in a cluster, like mixed in with them.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: And then and no one felt like weird.
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: That sometimes when you're at a party where there's a
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: lot of famous people, you feel strange or you feel
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: like I can't really talk to anyone. It really felt
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: like our party, and there were some special guests. But
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: I think the most beautiful moment of the night was
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: when the show in real time started. It was eleven
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: thirty five and they had it projected on the wall
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: of the building next door, and everyone there was a
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: hush fell over the room and everyone turned and looked
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: and saw that.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: That was it. That was our last show airing in
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: real time, and that was very poignant.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: You posted that you released a primal SOB when you
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: finished the last taping and you said the job changed life.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: So take away the head writer title and the glamour
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: of Late Night and tell me about the biggest impact
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: it had on you. Is there a piece of you
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: that wouldn't have existed without that show?
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, And it kind of came from Stephen himself,
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: and it came within the first few weeks of writing
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: for The Colbert Report really and it is it. It
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: really changed everything. I joined the Colbertraport I was the
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: only woman writer on staff. The show had already announced
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: that it was ending, you know, and the show had
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: won Emmy's and Peabodies, and it was like a big deal.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: And it was like a very cool, hard place to work.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: It was like grad school. It felt like going being
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: thrown into the middle of a semester and I had
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: to get in that room.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: And some of these men are like big.
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: They were like this roomful of men and they were big,
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: and I like was so terrified to.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Pitch and tell me like hi, I thought something that
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: was funny.
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: And so a few weeks into the job, Stephen calls
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: me to his office and goes, I'm so happy you're here,
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: and I want to hear more from you. I want
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: to I want you to pipe up. I need to
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: do to get me a little bit more like he's
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: had in this like very kind, gentle way. But it
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: made me realize, like, oh yeah, yeah, I need to
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: take up more space. And that is the number one
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: piece of advice I give anyone, but mostly women or
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: people of color or anyone who's not straight white man
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: in comedy is to like get in a room and
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: physically make yourself a little bit bigger. If you can't
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: do that with your voice, you need to do it
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: with your body, and you need to do it with
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: your jokes, and you need to take big wild swings.
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: You need to read the room obviously, like don't go nuts.
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: But and since then, I feel like I've gotten a
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: lot bossier. Well, I find that really interesting because historically
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: women in comedy have not.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Been treated very well.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: You know, I think it's I see it in comedy
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: clubs still because I go all the time in LA
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: or New York when I'm here and there's just less
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: women comics. Yeah, and it's a it's a tough It's
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: not really like it's a tough environment.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: I think it's a numbers thing.
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: Like if there were more women on stage, or in
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: spaces where there are more women on stage, or more
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: like non straight white men on stage, like you know
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: in the Brooklyn comedy scene, like that can be a
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: more welcoming place. Not always, but it's funny and enraging
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: to me because like women are the ones who's like
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: spend all the household money.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Who they we buy tickets to things?
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: You know, it's like we oh, people go with their
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: husbands and boyfriends or whatever to comedy clubs, but like
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: the lineup is, like, I don't know, women are still
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: in certain comedy spaces seen as like a flavor of
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: person and not the main kind of person.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: So you don't like being called a woman in comedy though,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I yeah, I guess I wouldn't. It's it is what
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: I am.
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: But I feel like you would never call men in
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: comedy a man in comedy, just like you guys don't
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: get asked like what is it like being a working dad?
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: You know, like no one has asked that, Like, but
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: what is it like? Fucking great?
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: Because like probably someone else who like does a lot
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: of the parenting.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, a man in welding? What is it
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: like being a man in the welding arena?
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: You know, totally, It's like being a man in medicine,
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: like a male a doctor doctuh you.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Know, it's a qualifier, Yeah, it is. I'm going to
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: assume that you have seen hacks. Can I assume that?
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah? This honestly, this last season I haven't finished because
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: it was like the show was ending, it hit too
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: close to home when she's she's running that show, and
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: I was, I, I love that show.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: My god, I love that show so much. We have
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: an amazing producer on this show, and we watch it
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: together and then discuss it after, and I think so
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: much of what happens in that show that plays out
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: between Deborah and Ava captures what it is.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: To be in late night. And it's not just about
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: being funny.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: It's about ego and timing and power and stamina and
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: who gets blamed when something doesn't work. As somebody who's
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: actually lived inside the machine, which is few and far between,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: what do you think that show gets right? And about
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: what it takes to survive in comedy.
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: One of the things that was so on point was
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: the conversation they have, I think in this most recent
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: season at the beginning of their work, that is, who
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: are we doing these jokes for? Are we doing in
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: for Middle America? Are we doing the smarter, more elevated thing.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: And it's like.
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: An important lesson of like, you cannot write off your
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: audience and you can't write off what actually is going
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: to be funny in a room full of five hundred
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: people and honestly, what's going to be funny in a
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: room five hundred people is like, sometimes it's the most
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: like direct, clear joke and then like a little.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Twist on it or something unexpected.
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: It's not going to be like a weird, meandering, very clever,
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: thinky thing that you think is funny.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: I have so many jokes that have failed because.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: I thought I was like, this is a delicious commentary
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: and it's a little weird, and.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: It's like, no, no one wants to hear that.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: I mean they do, maybe I do, but you have
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: to you're not doing you're not pandering to the audience,
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: but you're really reading the room and seeing what people
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: want to hear right now, you know you're considering them. Yeah,
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: is that hard when you're in this sort of like
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: echo chamber.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: What kind of echo chamber? I think when you're in
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: a writer's room.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, like, even if you have different life experience, there's
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: a certain type of funny come on, okay, exactly, Like,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: and there's things that we get obsessed with as writers.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, that are not what anyone else would be obsessed
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: with it. Are you able to decipher that now?
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: No?
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: It's hard?
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: Well, I think that's the reason we write as a community.
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: We write as a group, and we have a dozen
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: staff writers. We have several you know, kind of supervisor
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: senior writers. And then the last past the monologue is
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: Stephen and the EP and it if only one person
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: knew how to make that room laugh, you would only
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: need that one person to write the monologue or write
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: the show. But it really takes rehearsals, and no one
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: knows how to do this. No one knows how to
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: do this job right every time, which is awesome. It's
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: like failing, failing on purpose or just generating and not
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: caring how much you fail is the number one skill
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: needed to do this job.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: So one of my favorite moments of HACKS is something
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: I want to ask you about specifically because of your
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: life experience. Even manipulates her way into becoming head writer
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: for Debor and Deborah is too scared to let two
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: women be the face of failure in late Night. Yeah,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: when you became head writer, did you fail feel responsibility
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: for bringing more.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: People into the room with you?
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: No, because by that point more people had been brought
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: into the room and that was awesome. Like and by
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: the end, our I'm proud that our staff was like
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: really diverse in all kinds of ways, and I think
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: it really made the show funnier, and it made the
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: room funnier.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: And we didn't always all.
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: Get each other's references, but in that same way where
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: like Steven's not going to get all the references. At
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: one point, Eliana Kortler, one of the writers, had to
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: teach him how to do the apple dance, remember when
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: that was big. And that was delightful too, because he
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: doesn't have the same perspective right that we do.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's part of the fun. When you have
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: more voices, you have more fun. I think so too.
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: I think one of the funniest parts of your personal
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: story is that your therapist made you submit a packet
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah for Colbert.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what a great therapist.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Man.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: He's a great therapist. He really I still talk to him.
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: He's a best He really was, Like he changed my
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: life by telling me this one thing. When I was
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: in therapy in Chicago, I was taking improv classes, I
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: was doing shows at eleven pm on a Tuesday. I
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: was working at Northwestern Memorial Hospital during the day. My
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: life was crazy. I was dating this guy who kind
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: of sucked, and he was like, you get to have
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: the life you want. Think about that. You get to
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: have the life that you want. I mean within reason.
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: But if you want to live a certain way, do
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: that and take yourself seriously, and give yourself the gift
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: of taking yourself seriously.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: And if you wanted you comedy seriously.
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: What what are you going to lose by submitting a packet?
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: So thirteen Emmy nominations and one win later. Yeah, when
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: you look back at that version of Ariel, do you
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: feel like you were underestimating yourself?
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: I think a certain times I was.
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: When I was taking improv classes and and you know,
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: trying to decide what to do, and you know, I did,
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: you know, twice a year, Lord Michael's comes to Second
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: City and sees shows, which is awesome, But if you're
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: not in those shows, or if you're not in the showcase,
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: it's a really hard thing to do. To do that audition,
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: It's incredibly difficult. I was not good at it, and
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: I was sort of like, oh God, what am I
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: going to do now? Because I want to do this
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: and I want to get paid to do it. And
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: then the EP of the Colbertraport, Tom Purcell, who had
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: also been a touring company member at Second City, came
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: and gave us this great talk and he said, this
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: industry needs nice people who are hard working and funny.
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: And if you want to read what one of our
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: scripts looks like, or if you want to keep in touch,
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: you know, email me.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: And this was like a room full of people. And
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I emailed him after and I was like, thanks so much.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: I would love to get a script.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: And I won't round up on the list to receive
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: the packet when they were hiring. I learned later that
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: no one else had sent a thank your note, and I.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Was like, did you hand written and write it or no?
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: No, just email, just like got his email and a
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: power of the thank you note. Yeah, it was just
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: a little note, but also honestly power of Tom Purcell,
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: because he is a really good guy to send that
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: packet to a twenty eight year old who you know,
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: twenty eight, I don't know how old I was someone
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: Sue had who hadn't like written for TV a day
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: in her life.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: So at this point, now you're working at Colbert, you're
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: in your thirties. Was the writer's room everything you thought.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: It would be? Yeah, it was awesome.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: It was it was I mean, it was different than
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: I thought it would be in what ways it was
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: so I mean I knew it would be smart. I
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: knew it would be brainy. I didn't know just how
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: in depth. The fidelity of the research and the integrity
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: of the jokes were so like we we really pride
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: ourselves on knowing our shit, and like at one point
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: we'd written a script about the deregulation of derivatives training trading. Well,
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: I would say that Stephen was the most serious. Yeah,
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: of the late night hosts. Oh that's nice. Yeah, and
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: he cares deeply about the country. We all love our country,
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: but like he really really really cares, and yeah he's
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: a patriot and he just knows everything and so does
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: Tom And that was.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Incredible.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: I'm so curious, what was your first impression of him
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: compared to who he ultimately was in your eyes all
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: those years later.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: I think it was. I think it just he was
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: the same. It was the same. He was like a
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: nice dad who was like lazer.
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: Sharp, wit and so brainy, but also like so silly,
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: Like would you know he would get his deli order
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: in the morning and then like throw his toast across
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: the room at whoever wanted to eat it, and it
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: was like, really prioritized feelings, how he felt about the stories,
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: really prioritized having a good time with each other. And
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: those are great qualities and that's what I felt right away,
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: and that's how he was until the end.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: So I think one thing I want to say about.
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: Something you mentioned a few questions back, which was that
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: I was twenty six when I started. Oh yeah, and
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: I actually feel like I could have started later. And
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: in fact, some people I work with in our writer's room,
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: you know, one woman was in the Peace Corps and
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: then she worked on getting your theater PhD. And then
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: she was like, I don't want to do this. Another
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: guy was a strike. I think he was a structural engineer,
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: John Thibodeau. People come from all different backgrounds, and I honestly,
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: when I was thinking about pursuing comedy, I really thought
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: of my hero Julia Child, who didn't start cooking until
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: she was in her like mid thirties, and she was like,
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: she was not good at it. I just start like
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: she failed her exams multiple times, And I love that.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of pressure.
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: To get started young to get like a hot internship
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: and to like be in the room with however people, Yeah,
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: that's going to happen, but also like you really have
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: to work on yourself first, and you really have to
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: find the joy in what you're going to do.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of different paths. Yeah, there are, there
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: are some people.
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: If you can get in that powerful room, amazing god
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: bless But I wasn't. I just really like knuckled down
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: and fell into a sort of Also, I feel like
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: it's my hard work. But then also like I was
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: really lucky.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: So you were at the Colbert Report and then you
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: transition to the Late Show.
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so I am so curious. I'm asking for a friend.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: I am so curious about what it takes to hone
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: the voice of a show, and if I can just
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: sort of share a little bit about my experience. I've
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: been the host and helped launch i think three shows
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: from inception, and each time I've done it, I am exhausted.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: I learned so much. But I've noticed it takes almost a.
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: Year to figure out what the show actually is, what
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: the You can do all the legwork you want.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: But it takes a year.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: Was that your experience or how did you hone the
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: voice of the show.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, I think it took I mean at least six months.
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: We didn't know what our show was going to be,
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: and it also was so dependent on the news cycle.
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: Like we we went in there thinking our show is
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: kind of going to be about I don't know what,
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: maybe you know, the American experience, the conversation, what people
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: are talking about, which is great, we love that, except
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: then immediately Trump got elected and we were like, oh,
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: that is what people are talking about, Like this unprecedented
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: time in our country is the main conversation, and then
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: there's all these other wonderful conversations too happening. But finding
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: the voice for that show was a project, and I'm
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: really proud that we did it. And it took a
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: lot of reps, and it took an incredibly strong team.
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: You know, everyone on our show, not just the writers,
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: but the staff. Everyone kind of has comedic input, whether
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: it's like selecting the prop that we use, doing the
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: music cue, what does it look like, what's the vibe
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: of the show, what is the audience like?
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: You know that is.
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: It all matters? And we really nailed We really nailed it.
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: It took a while, but it really makes me feel
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: just this heartbreak for the system, the TV system right now.
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: Because shows get maybe six episodes, maybe eight, maybe one season,
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: they don't get time to find their voice, to breathe
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: and grow. What do you think the pressures are in
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: late night in trying to uphold this institution while also
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: wanting to infuse a fresh new voice and in your example,
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: like Steven's voice in particular. Yeah, I think that, like
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: it's a challenge. I think that the audience, and by
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: audience I mean the TV TV viewership in general. I
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: think people will always want to hear what's going on,
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: told through jokes and told through a charismatic person. But
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: I think that person also has to deeply care about
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: what's happening or have some sort of personal stake in it.
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: I think that's just goes for all good TV is
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: someone who cares about it, or a great podcast. I
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: think the medium is changing. I think no one is
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: fewer and fewer people are turning on broadcast TV. At
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: eleven thirty five, We're watching a million other things. I'm
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: watching old episodes of Below Deck Blow Deck Med, you know,
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: while looking at my phone while playing Nintendo, you know,
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: because it's I have a two year old and my
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: brain is done. But you know, there's a lot of
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: competition out for eyeballs right now, but I think people
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: will always want that, and I think the main challenge
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: is going to be how do you find how how
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: do you find what people are caring about right now?
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: That's it?
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Why do you think that's the main challenge?
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: Okay, because we used to live in a world where
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: a movie would come out and it would be all
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: anyone talked about, because really there were only four to six.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Movies out at any time.
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: But it used to be like, oh, this thing happened
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: at the Grammys and that incident would be talked about forever,
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: you know, and people would like hang on that, or
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: like a celebrity scandal would happen and that would be
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: like people would you know, SNL Weekend Update would do
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: jokes on that several weeks in a row.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Because the nothing moved very fast.
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: Now, the conversation moves so quickly that it's hard to
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: get a grasp on like what's recognizable?
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: What do people care about?
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: Also, people have references that are spread out all over
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: you know, we were not all using the same slang.
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: We're not all looking at the same things. We're not
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: all watching the one Jim Carrey movie that's out. When
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: Austin Powers came out that I was a kid when
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: it came out, it was like, oh my god, all
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: anyone talked about was this crazy movie because we had
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: one crazy movie.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is a real like we had to
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: walk uphill both ways.
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: In my day, we only had one wacky movie this
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: summer and that's all people talked about, and you could
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: do jokes about it, and that was your Halloween costume
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: and then that was it.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's great that there's more stuff now.
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: I love having all the options and all the voices
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: and everyone gets to come to the table. But then
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: also it is overwhelming. So how did you guys figure
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: out what people cared about? We have an incredible research team,
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: just these geniuses with hearts of gold who would cast
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: their net wide and put together daily digests and constant,
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: you know, to the minute, daily updates about what are
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: people talking about right now?
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Was it from the Internet?
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: Because I found that what people are talking about online
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: is cosmically different.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: So if people are talking about in person.
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: No, I know I mean yeah, and we tried to
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: make jokes about what people were doing online, and then
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: our audience of like older CBS viewers at night would
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: be like, huh, yeah, it's not the same dialogue. It's
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: not so you got I don't know, you've got to
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: just like throw a spaghetti.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: At the wall and see interesting.
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: I can imagine that you wanted to implement things from
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: past experiences that didn't go well. Well, I know I've
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: done that in almost every show I've ever worked on,
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: no matter how great the show is, like, I always
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: want to do it better the next time.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: So, in twenty eighteen, there was this Glamour article where
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: you and a few other women who just so happened
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: to be comedic writers got together to talk about late
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: night comedy life. And there were six of you in conversation.
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: But the article was very quick to note that really
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: only thirty percent of writers were women in general.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Eight years later, did that shift? Oh yeah?
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: And on our stuff, absolutely it did. I don't know
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: about the general statistic. I'd be interested in knowing about it,
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: and I would be interested in knowing what jokes are
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: getting chosen. You know, the women can be on the staff.
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: But it's like, are they informing the voice of the show.
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: I know on our show they definitely were, you know, Yeah,
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: why do you think women have such a hard time
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: getting those late night seats? I think that is not
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: a question to be asked of the women or even
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: of me, because.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: I think it has to It's it's higher up.
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: I think it all starts with who's running the network,
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: who's hosting, who's uh the ep uh?
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Who who's in charge? And who's deciding who thinks who's funny?
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Like interest think who think who thinks who's funny?
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: I am a writer, I swear, but you know what
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: I mean, Like, like, do you like we you know,
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: we have a host who thinks women are wildly funny
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: and love them and that's great.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: But if you kind of are.
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: Like, Okay, we gotta have a woman like that kind
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: of attitude is like, thankfully, like not prevalent anymore. I
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: think most of late night shows have like a great
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: number of women, but that wasn't always the case.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: That's really interesting.
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm like dying to live through a moment where
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: I see a woman as a permanent late night host.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know, if that will exist, because I don't
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: know if late Night will exist.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: You said you feel like late night won't exist.
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean late night has already changed from what
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: it was during the Johnny Carson time, when like millions
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: and millions and millions of people would watch any night
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: or like the Ed Sullivan Show, like most of America
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: would turn on their TV at night to watch that.
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: That's just not happening anymore. That's just not how we
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: get our entertainment. I think that there will always be
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: a place for people to make fun of those in power,
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: and to make fun of what's happening in the news,
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: and to point out a story and say, hey, this
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: is happening, isn't that crazy. Half the fun of writing
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: this kind of stuff is educating the audience about it.
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: Like the President's building a UFC fight ring on the
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: south lawn of the White House for his birthday. Problem
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: is there will be these giant lights there and there's
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: gonna be a lot of bugs. And that story was
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: so funny and we had such great jokes about it,
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: we had to cut it for time. It never made
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: it to air, But that's the story that like my
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: in laws maybe like didn't know about off the top
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: of their heads that you know, everyone at those fights
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: was going to get inundated by mosquitos. That's fun. There
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: will always be a world where pointing something out like
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: that is funny.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like podcasts in some ways have become
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: the new version of Late night or do you think
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: it's still very different?
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: No?
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, I think it is a different medium and it's
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: much more casual. Like our show was like very tightly written,
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: very carefully written, very carefully produced, and podcasts.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Are They're like Lucy Goosey a little bit.
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: They are carefully edited and produced and the questions are
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: so thoughtful and the research has been done. Thank you,
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: it's so nice of you. But not every podcast is
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: like that. Yeah, and that's also maybe people like that,
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: maybe white people like get a little looser now.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I heard this girl on TikTok. She kind of
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: changed my mind about something because she said, call Her
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Daddy is not a podcast, It's not an interview show.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: It is a late night show.
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, Like everything is pre produced, the sort of like
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: salacious bites are probably run by the publicists, and like
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: the way that Late Night, like the guests kind of
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: know what they're going to talk about.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: I think it might take that form.
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: It'll be late night, just on a different It'll be
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: it on different platform, it'll be on a streamer. Yeah,
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: it'll be I mean late night. It just depends on
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: when you're listening to it. Yeah, this is there's no
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: difference between this except the audience. Yeah, and a talk show.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: We're doing a.
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: Talk show right now. You're a talk show host. I
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: mean in a great way. You're a journalists my dream Ariel.
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, this could be on top like, get this,
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: cameras rolling, this could be on TV. They are rolling, Like,
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: I don't see why this isn't one. Get thirty people,
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: you know, watch what Happens Live has an audience of
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: like twenty five.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's awesome.
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: It's like it does change the dynamic when you have
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: a live audience.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But the podcast world makes me excited for.
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: The medium and it makes me for the future of
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: late night. I think that it's a great way to
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: connect with people. Yeah, I mean it sucks that there's
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: like ten thousand of them, and it is again like
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: you don't unless you are talking with your friends who
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: also listen to that podcast.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: You're not like did you hear what so and so said,
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Like it doesn't. Everything is so spread out now, So
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: that does suck.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: But so I asked you about the moment you felt
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: like it was really over. But I want to go
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: back actually a little further and ask you about the
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: moment when it was announced that it was ending.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Did you feel like a dream was being taken from you? Yes?
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, I mean yeah, and yeah, yes, definitely.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: That's so sad. Yeah, and we got that when I
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: got that call.
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: That call was after the show had taped, or like
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: kind of at the end of taping, and we all
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: are on a zoom together and I actually my husband
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: had got me tickets to see a like very belated
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: Mother's Day gift to see Josh Sharp's Tuda at I
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: think it was at Cherry Lane and the show started
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: at seven thirty. This call was at seven. We were
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: in a bar. I was like probably drinking a paloma
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: like and it was just like what it was insane,
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: And we coincidentally had a rooftop party that night.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: You know, we have these like wonderful gatherings for the.
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: Staff all summer long, and the vibes usually it's like
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: a pretty chill fun. Oh my god, it's such a
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: manic energy. We were all like crying and kind of
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: shrieking and laughing, Like there was this weird effervescence to
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: that moment.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, grief makes you do strange things. Yeah, that's well said.
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: I walked out of that elevator with a glass of rose,
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: like onto Broadway, which which is like a very beautiful,
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: cinematic streets, really kind of hobo life thing to do.
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: I don't know, it's like, all right, I'm drinking out
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: of a plastic cup on Broadway.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: I'm one of I'm a real New Yorker.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: I felt like one of the most memorable moments from
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: the last season was when all for late night hosts,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Oh my god gathered together. Yeah, Strikeforce five. Yeah, I'd
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: never seen that kind of camaraderie. I don't know that
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: that could have happened years ago. There was something. It
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: was like a meeting of the moment and of men
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: who were seemingly evolved. Yeah, it was sort of special.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: What was it like to experience that sort of solidarity
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: between them?
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: It was incredible. It really meant so much.
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: Why am I crying? Why am I tearing up about
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: Jimmy Kimmel, but I am. I mean for last fall's Emmy,
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: for last year the Emmy campaign season, he put up
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: a billboard that said, I'm voting for Steven.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: And I legit. I'm still thinking about it. I'm still
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: like crying like it.
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: Wow, it was so nice from an industry where there
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: used to be the Late night Wars and like everyone
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: loved talking about the Late Night Wars and it was
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: so I mean, we all have the same dumb job.
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: Very few people have this speci difficult job. And it's
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: not difficult, like you know, we're not doing manual labor.
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: It's actually a quite easy job. We drink a lot
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: of Seltzer. It's awesome, but Seltzer is so spot on,
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: Oh my god, and we drink too much and then
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: everyone gets real gassy. Uh. But it is a it's
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: a hard job being in the fire hose of the news. Yeah,
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: and trying to find the fun. That's pretty wonderful.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: What makes comedy fundamentally human in the age of AI
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: comedy is human. Computers can't do it. They're not people.
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: An example is I once tweeted a joke that was like, uh,
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: calling your mom your mom, Oh, your dad was in
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: the hospital, but he's fine now.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: It's like, what, like.
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: That is very very funny thing that's happened to adult
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: children everywhere? Is it their mom calls and randomly jobs
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: that your dad had a procedure or had to go
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: to the emergency room, but he's fine now, don't worry,
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: Like no, I want to worry. And like sharing that
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: very niche discreete moment and connecting on it with a
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: stranger is what life is all about. A computer has
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: no human experience, It has no feelings. It is just
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: stealing stuff left and right, making a big mush of
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: it and is like is this a joke? Haha, Look,
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: I can make a thousand more. But I also think
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: AI doesn't have taste like people do.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: AI interview questions and there's maybe like three of twenty
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: that are I think usable.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: It just it's not it's not there.
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: I also think the whole point of doing this job
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: that you enjoy is writing the questions and asking the questions.
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: Your podcast is called Question Everything. Yeah, you could get
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: a machine and a robot to do that for you,
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: to what so you can have more time laying down
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: like what do you want to do. That's not that
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: So I'm sure you get asked for advice from aspirational
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: writers all the time, But what is the biggest takeaway
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: that you would offer from your career to anyone who's
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: just trying to be good at their job right now?
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: You gotta have fun. You gotta have fun, and that
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: comes with doing it again and again with people you like,
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: not caring about the outcome, but doing it for the
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: pure joy and fun of it. And if it stops
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: being fun and you hate it, maybe try tweaking some things,
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: like maybe you actually don't need to do that eleven
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: pm improv show in some guy's basement, Like maybe that's it,
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: but I think find a way to find no, you
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: know what, I want to go back.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: I don't think this is it. I like fun. I
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: do like fun, but I think.
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: It's yeah, let's have a good time and don't let
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: anyone stop you the best. I've gotten a lot of
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: good career advice, and I've sat across from people who
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: have shared a lot of wisdom, and to this day,
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: I think that the piece that runs through my mind
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: before I do anything was from an anchor in Chicago,
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: and he said Danielle. The person who has the most
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: fun wins. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I Amber Ruffin,
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: who had an incredible late night show, said like, no
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: one can stop me from having a good time.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: And I was like, that's right. They can't take that
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: away from you.
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: And I think that is the most important thing in
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: this specific career and this industry because it is so
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: hard and soul crushing. So if it's not fun, you're
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: not gonna You're gonna You're gonna turn into dust. It's
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: it's like you have to have a good time, and
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: that's contagious, some rapid fire for you. The funniest thing
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: about Minnesota, oh uh, that Minnesota nice is actually the
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: meanest possible way to be.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: As a cousin to Minnesota in Chicago, I concur a
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: comedy opinion you would defending court Revenge is funny a
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: joke format that needs to be retired.
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: Nothing everything is funny, even if it's done a thousand times.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: A comedian who raised you, Madeline Cohn best late night
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: desk Letterman Conan, Colbert Stewart or Ferguson Cold Bet.
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: Conan is a second close runner up. A woman in
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: comedy who should have had a late night show years ago,
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: like Meg Stalter's late night show would be awesome. I
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: would come on.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: That would be great. The funniest person you've ever been
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: in a room with?
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: Oh god, Conan Brian is really that funny. The most
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: terrifying room a writer's room, a therapist's office, or a
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: family group chat a writer's room. What's harder to write
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: a monologue, joke, an apology text, or a wedding toast?
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Oh apology texts? Oh god ly, a wedding toast is
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: so hard? No way, because it's not.
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: Jenny Hagel writes for Seth Myers has an incredible formula.
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: You make it about them, Make it about them, don't
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: make it about you.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: It'll be funny.
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: No one wants you to be super funny guy you
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: think they do, Yeah, they don't.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: They don't, Okay.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: The celebrity who you think would be surprisingly good at
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: late night?
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: I think Julia Luis Dreyfus would be excellent.
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: Speaking of because she's an amazing woman in comedy. What's
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: the most unrealistic part of Hacks? Oh, people would look worse,
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: looks so much worse, including the host, Although that's hard
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: of her. Whole deal is that she looks fabulous all
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: the time, but we dress like garbage. So who would
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: win in a writer's room fight? Debra Vance or Stephen Colbert. Oh,
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: Stephen Colbert. He arm wrestled us. He arm wrestled everyone
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: on staff for like a year, and that was so
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: fun and ridiculous.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, your favorite Second City alum, Gilda Radner. A phrase
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: women in comedy never need to hear again ladies. Oh
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: my god, that's why I quit my sorority.
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: Okay, No, it's just so like like, that's fine if
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: a girl says it, but you don't want a man
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: in the room to turn to the women writers and
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: be like ladies, Like that happened. I think like one
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: Domino show and all the women were like bull no,
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: and then immediately like terrorized whoever the poor guy whoever
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: said that?
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: That could have been my favorite answer of all of
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: the questions. Yeah, the most surreal famous person you've ever made.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Small talk with? Oh, Steve Krall, whose idea was the
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: peanut song? Oh that was Barry Julian are incredible, coepy,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: He's so funny.
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: He doesn't get on a street card. You don't know
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: about Barry Julian. He is responsible for some of the
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: best bits on our show. And he just quietly like
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: produces and head writes the second act. And is this
• 45:56
  Speaker 4: Canadian who is just a trip that was so brilliant? Yeah,
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: it was really ant made a lot of money for
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: a good cause. What is something every woman should try once?
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: Sitting like this in a public space?
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know that. I can't. I feel crazy doing
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: camera like what, I feel really crazy sitting with good hair,
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: but like do it on the subway, like you know,
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: like it's it.
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: Will I have a cousin who sits like this and
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: we're all like, I interest thing.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: Maybe go like this?
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, just maybe go like that? I mean, like in
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: this setting. No, like we're ladies, but but we're.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Not ladies like ladies a lanies. What is a book
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: you read that changed your life? Something you think everybody
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: should read?
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: A Slaughterhouse five? Love that? Yeah?
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: Will you grab the question everything card game and pick
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: a question at random? In the past, people were buried
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: with items they would need in the afterlife. What would
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: you want buried with you in the afterlife?
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: Hmmm? Big old knife?
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: You know, ow like har for like fighting in heaven, Like,
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: what are we doing? You can bring these things to
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: the afterlife whatever you want, sweet boom box, some individually
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: wrapped those like individually wrapped parmesan bites.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: Uh, you might be hungry when you're dead.
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it might be, might be a little hung might
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: be a little grungry. People, He's just hungry. No one
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: ever says grungry. Yeah, I don't know studeo games, No
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: I think. Yeah, some notebook a pen that's so a
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: head writer of the doodle. Yeah, I got it right,
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: you know, Rry'll thank you, thank you.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: This has been a treat.
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day.
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: To have a good day. I'll see you.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: Next week is the top Shop Shops and Shopper