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The Rise of the Manosphere · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to staff.
0:07
Speaker 1: One Never Told You production of iHeartRadio, and today, as
0:19
Speaker 1: we're recording this, it is November twelfth, twenty twenty four.
0:24
Speaker 1: This is one of those things where I've been meaning
0:28
Speaker 1: to talk about for a while because I've seen a
0:30
Speaker 1: lot of articles written about it recently. But when I
0:33
Speaker 1: looked at our very convoluted RSS page, I was surprised
0:39
Speaker 1: no one's ever talked about it before. So this is new.
0:43
Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about things surrounding it, but we
0:46
Speaker 1: have never done an episode on the Manisphere, which is
0:49
Speaker 1: what we're talking about today. That being said, probably no
0:53
Speaker 1: surprise to people who are familiar. Content warning for non
0:57
Speaker 1: explicit discussions of rape, sexual assault, violin against women, racism,
1:02
Speaker 1: and misogyny. Yeah, you can also see our past episodes
1:07
Speaker 1: on in Cells Chadwives, Men Going their Own Way or
1:10
Speaker 1: Migtao sog Noir, Why Didn't You Believe Her? White Women
1:15
Speaker 1: in White Supremacy and Brett Kevanaugh. Also probably our whole
1:20
Speaker 1: Trauma mini series, to be honest, but also also the
1:23
Speaker 1: Monday mini I did about like not being Pretty Enough,
1:26
Speaker 1: which I'll talk about a little bit more all right,
1:29
Speaker 1: so first let us define manosphere. The generally accepted definition
1:35
Speaker 1: is that the manisphere refers to a network of social
1:39
Speaker 1: media groups and websites not necessarily directly connected to each other,
1:44
Speaker 1: that all share the common belief that men are oppressed
1:46
Speaker 1: by and victims of feminism and women. The manisphere breaks
1:51
Speaker 1: down into four main groups. Men's right activists, pick up artist,
1:56
Speaker 1: men going their own way, and involuntary celibates are insults.
2:01
Speaker 1: Some people also particularly carve out red pill men.
2:06
Speaker 2: I think we need to just put men in podcasting.
2:08
Speaker 3: And then there's a part five to this because that
2:11
Speaker 3: was a big discussion I've been seeing recently about how
2:14
Speaker 3: men podcasts or right wing podcasts, men and podcasts. Joe
2:19
Speaker 3: Rogan really influenced gen Zers, and I was like, oh,
2:23
Speaker 3: that's the whole episode.
2:25
Speaker 2: Anyway back too, So we're going.
2:27
Speaker 1: To briefly talk about that, but yes, it is episode.
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Speaker 3: I'm just like, I feel like they need their own
2:33
Speaker 3: category now, men and podcasts. Yeah, anyway back to So
2:36
Speaker 3: the minisphere has been around since the early days of
2:39
Speaker 3: the Internet and the two thousands, but more modernly, I
2:42
Speaker 3: really took off in response to the twenty seventeen hashtag
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Speaker 3: me Tube movement first invented by activists to Rona Burke
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Speaker 3: in two thousand and six, and other online feminist movements
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Speaker 3: and conversations. It should come as no surprise to anyone
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Speaker 3: that anti feminist groups have existed since feminism has. They've
3:00
Speaker 3: been existing even before feminism has. Let's just be real, honesty.
3:03
Speaker 3: The Internet has just given them the platform to reach
3:07
Speaker 3: more people.
3:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, unfortunately, there's a lot to you if you want
3:12
Speaker 1: to read more, there's plenty more to read about this,
3:15
Speaker 1: But you can read the history of like especially second
3:20
Speaker 1: wave feminism in the seventies, and how all of these
3:23
Speaker 1: other groups of men formed against that, Like, there's always
3:27
Speaker 1: kind of a backlash. But yes, we already know that
3:33
Speaker 1: networks like this can and have led to violence, often
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Speaker 1: against women, and that young boys and men people at large,
3:40
Speaker 1: but young boys and men particularly can be radicalized by
3:43
Speaker 1: these spaces, and a lot of these instances of violence.
3:47
Speaker 1: Prior to committing them, the perpetrator had been really active
3:50
Speaker 1: in misogynist, anti feminist online communities, many of them racist, islammophobic,
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Speaker 1: anti semitic, homophobic, and far right leaning. Many also have
4:01
Speaker 1: connections to white supremacist groups, neo Nazis and a right
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Speaker 1: organizations or communities if they're not that already themselves. Something
4:12
Speaker 1: we've talked about a lot too. A lot of these
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Speaker 1: online platforms not only don't do a good job at
4:18
Speaker 1: protecting their users and preventing hate speech if they do
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Speaker 1: it at all, their algorithms also boost posts like these
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Speaker 1: and facilitate the growth and radicalization of people in these communities.
4:31
Speaker 1: People can be anonymous and they can get around a
4:33
Speaker 1: lot of censorship because of that, and can find like
4:37
Speaker 1: minded individuals. And you can see we did kind of
4:40
Speaker 1: a mini series that we didn't really plan or announce,
4:43
Speaker 1: but we did a lot of technology stuff at the
4:45
Speaker 1: beginning of last year, and we talked about that with
4:48
Speaker 1: YouTube and most of the platforms we discussed. All Right, So,
4:53
Speaker 1: since me too often comes up in the discussion around
4:56
Speaker 1: the rise of the manisphere, let's talk about how that
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Speaker 1: looks when it comes to these misogynists online spaces. And yes,
5:04
Speaker 1: we have talked about many times before that this was
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Speaker 1: a huge movement where women were encouraged to share their
5:11
Speaker 1: stories of sexual assault online, primarily on social medium. Anti
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Speaker 1: feminists and anti women online community slashed out in response,
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Speaker 1: going so far as to call out a feminist conspiracy
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Speaker 1: at first, especially against straight white men. Many discussed rape
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Speaker 1: is like it's not a thing at all, they'd said,
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Speaker 1: it was like, what are we even talking about. There
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Speaker 1: was a common undercurrent of perceived male victimization and a
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Speaker 1: desire to go back to patriarchal values they felt were
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Speaker 1: under attack or being eroded. There was a general sense
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Speaker 1: of fear of being accused of committing sexual assault and
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Speaker 1: an outcry about how feminism was ruining their self esteem,
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Speaker 1: that they were being discriminated against. It was a toxic
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Speaker 1: support network these men were building, and a lot of
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Speaker 1: times it is framed as a support network, as in,
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Speaker 1: we can help you men, if you're feeling bad, come here.
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Speaker 1: With the general idea that women were the problem in
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Speaker 1: one way or another and that they needed to return
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Speaker 1: to their natural, some missive state, and feminism needed to end.
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Speaker 3: So after Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh's hearing about the
6:26
Speaker 3: allegations of sexual assault leveled against him, the hashtag him
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Speaker 3: too was trending. So here's a quote. We've all seen
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Speaker 3: the horror stories. Men work their entire lives to build
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Speaker 3: his legacy, and then with one fell swoop, a mere
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Speaker 3: allegation with zero proof to back it up, destroys their lives.
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Speaker 2: Annie, did I tell you that?
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Speaker 3: This is one of the things that my mom brought
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Speaker 3: up in our conversation during my I'm going to be
6:51
Speaker 3: a part of a feminist podcast in which she said,
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Speaker 3: these allegations are ruining men's life and it was so
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Speaker 3: long ago. He's changed now, why won't they let him change?
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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, well we are gonna briefly touch on that too,
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Speaker 1: because of the there's a lot I'm very sorry you
7:14
Speaker 1: meant to do with that. There's a lot to impack there.
7:17
Speaker 1: But that idea that always bothered me too when people
7:22
Speaker 1: would defend Donald Trump and be like that was so
7:24
Speaker 1: long ago. I was like, he was sixty years, right,
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Speaker 1: he was sixty years and his reasoning.
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Speaker 3: Is never, I would never do such a thing. I'm upright,
7:33
Speaker 3: citizen is not pretty?
7:36
Speaker 2: Why what the.
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Speaker 1: Exactly? And it wouldn't have been like I don't really
7:43
Speaker 1: care about the age. It's just the hypocrisy of the art.
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Speaker 2: He's a child until he dies, apparently.
7:50
Speaker 1: Right, And Brett Kevin All is on Supreme Court, so
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Speaker 1: like right, Trump president again.
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Speaker 2: He currently is like thirty something. Convictions like he's actually convicted.
8:05
Speaker 1: Yes, So I like, this comment just makes.
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Speaker 2: Me ruining their lives, right, we're.
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Speaker 1: Ruining their lives, and like the people he works with,
8:14
Speaker 1: the people he surrounds himself with, and a lot of
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Speaker 1: this rhetoric is very like women are just vessels to
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Speaker 1: bear children. That comes up a lot in these spaces.
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Speaker 1: The idea that their quote left over is once they're
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Speaker 1: over twenty three, which sounds very reminiscent of Jadie Vance's
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Speaker 1: Childles Cat Ladies' comments. So it's like we're going to
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Speaker 1: come to the election, but it's when we're talking about this,
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Speaker 1: it is very prominent in what's happening right now in
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Speaker 1: our politics. So during this discourse, many of the commenters
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Speaker 1: went out of their way to discuss the desirability of
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Speaker 1: the women in question when it came to me too, like, yeah,
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Speaker 1: she's never with anyone sexual assault her, which is horribly gross.
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Speaker 1: In their opinion, many of the people who came forward
9:05
Speaker 1: were unattractive. Some even went so far as to accuse
9:09
Speaker 1: them of dealing with rejection issues, which wow, I know.
9:16
Speaker 1: Many of the comments were racially charged and full of
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Speaker 1: harmful stereotypes, often bringing out scientific reasons women were inferior.
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Speaker 1: They accused women of being witches and pedophiles. They claimed
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Speaker 1: the legal system protected women from any punishment for their
9:33
Speaker 1: alleged abuses, so basically, they flipped the conversation so that
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Speaker 1: women were the abusers of men. And as mentioned, their
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Speaker 1: comments were often very racist, fat phobic, transphobic, homophobic, and contradictory. Again,
9:51
Speaker 1: it's like, I know, we all know that they were
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Speaker 1: so contradictory overall, they dismissed the sexual assault bit altogether,
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Speaker 1: or argue that it should be legal against women and
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Speaker 1: went straight to worrying and raging about how this might
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Speaker 1: hurt men. Some would say that men can be victims too,
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Speaker 1: which is true, but rather than talking about getting justice
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Speaker 1: for all victims, they argue that women don't have a
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Speaker 1: right to justice until men get it first. Some also
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Speaker 1: claim that consent is confusing and it's on women to
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Speaker 1: stop any unwanted attack, and therefore any attack on them
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Speaker 1: is legitimate because they didn't stop it. Here's a quote
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Speaker 1: from one of these websites. Why as rape bad and
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Speaker 1: our modern Western culture girls have lay counts in the
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Speaker 1: double interpal digits? What does an extra dick matter? Sex
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Speaker 1: feels good and women who are being raped can also orgasm,
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Speaker 1: implying an element of enjoyment. Finally, if women never fought back,
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Speaker 1: it would not be fun for the guy, as many
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Speaker 1: violent rapes are a power thing where the guy I enjoys.
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Speaker 1: The woman fighting back just disgusting. In this case, the
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Speaker 1: commenter is implying that women with sexual experience deserve to
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Speaker 1: be raped, or it doesn't matter because they've had a
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Speaker 1: lot of sex, and that women enjoy rape unless they
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Speaker 1: fight back, and even then they enjoy Men enjoy that too,
11:23
Speaker 1: according to this commenter, others suggested recording any sexual encounter
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Speaker 1: without consent to have evidence in case they were accused,
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Speaker 1: so like setting up cameras. Others suggested violent punishment and
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Speaker 1: even murder if a woman threatened to accuse him of
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Speaker 1: sexual assault. They often used women to legitimize their comments too,
11:48
Speaker 1: so like my mother says, my wife says, almost to
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Speaker 1: be like nostalgic. For a time before women talked about
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Speaker 1: sexual assault in public, like my mother's says, wandering hands
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Speaker 1: or just a thing, stuff like that. Another frequent complaint
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Speaker 1: was that women were taking jobs from men, and then
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Speaker 1: another one was about child custody. Both women unfairly getting
12:15
Speaker 1: child custody? Are women expecting too much in childcare and child.
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Speaker 4: Payments as they did? Again contradictory.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so that was me too. Twenty seventeen. Here we
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Speaker 1: are again. There has been an even more recent rise
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Speaker 1: in the manisphere. Podcast is a part of it, in
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Speaker 1: part boosted by the first selection of Donald Chump, who
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Speaker 1: echoes the sentiment of a lot of these comments in
12:53
Speaker 1: public appearances. And we will get to that in a minute.
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Speaker 1: But from all of this confused and hate, some male
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Speaker 1: influencers or man influencers as they're called, saw a business opportunity.
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Speaker 1: They made content around how boys and men weren't the problem,
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Speaker 1: it was everyone else, especially women and feminist. Here are
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Speaker 1: some of the big examples, and shout out to Amon
13:17
Speaker 1: Whalen's piece the men fight back over on mother Jones,
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Speaker 1: who are helping us pull this together. So psychology professor
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Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson. He came up in twenty sixteen after he
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Speaker 1: protested a measure that would require teachers in Canada to
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Speaker 1: use a student's preferred pronoun and the videos went viral.
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Speaker 1: People who liked him saw him as someone who was
13:41
Speaker 1: under attacked by sjw's use a very like father figure.
13:45
Speaker 1: To cater to this newfound audience, he released lectures aimed
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Speaker 1: towards young men, like the Marxist lie of white privilege.
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Speaker 1: He went on tour and wrote a best selling book.
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Speaker 1: He claims he is not part of the manisphere and
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Speaker 1: that people that are our quote deceptive narcissists, all while
14:04
Speaker 1: being in conversation with some of them. He's a social
14:07
Speaker 1: Darwinist and a big proponent of looking to nature to
14:10
Speaker 1: explain what he views as the quote natural social hierarchies.
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Speaker 1: He talks about lobsters a lot. He's seen as an
14:19
Speaker 1: early version of this toxic men's self help era that
14:25
Speaker 1: has emerged. We've spoken before about this misguided and incorrect
14:30
Speaker 1: biodeterminist argument is very popular in the manisphere.
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Speaker 3: So science fiction writer and publisher Theodore Robert Biehl, who
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Speaker 3: is also a Christian nationalist, racist, misogynist, and anti Semitic,
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Speaker 3: expended on what he reviewed as simplistic denominations of men.
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Speaker 3: In twenty ten, Beer the Guardian Heuote came up with
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Speaker 3: his own social sexual hierarchy, with alpha's at the top,
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Speaker 3: the male elite, the leaders of men for whom women
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Speaker 3: naturally lost followed by betas, deltas, gammas, lamb das, right
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Speaker 3: down to Omega's. The losers sitting outside this imaginary pyramid
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Speaker 3: of masculinity were sigmas the lone wolves. Bill defined sigmas
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Speaker 3: as quote outsiders who don't play the social game and
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Speaker 3: manage to win at it anyhow, and who quote often
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Speaker 3: like women, but also tend to be contemptuous of them.
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Speaker 3: They're on par with alphas, but just don't show off
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Speaker 3: about it.
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Speaker 1: This is how they explain, like because a lot of
15:35
Speaker 1: times in these groups they hate the alphas because they're
15:39
Speaker 1: not the alphas. Right, the sigma is like your lone wolf,
15:44
Speaker 1: he's not an alpha, so I can like him kind
15:46
Speaker 1: of guy.
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Speaker 2: Is this one of those like I'm not like other guys,
15:49
Speaker 2: I'm not like other.
15:51
Speaker 1: Type of conversations are attracted to.
15:55
Speaker 3: Yeah.
15:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're very very simplistic view.
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Speaker 3: It feels like it's kind of one of those the
16:01
Speaker 3: rebellious rebellious dude, the emo boy in high school in
16:06
Speaker 3: my era. That was kind of like it last when
16:08
Speaker 3: everybody lusted after the Jared Letto.
16:12
Speaker 2: Of my so called life era.
16:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, they really, They just watch a lot of nineties
16:19
Speaker 3: films I feel like.
16:20
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, we are going to talk about this,
16:24
Speaker 1: but they've gotten an aesthetic and Sigmas, by the way,
16:31
Speaker 1: went on to become a meme in twenty twenty one.
16:34
Speaker 1: And I wish I could just laugh at so much
16:37
Speaker 1: of this stuff. But because it's like doing actual damage,
16:40
Speaker 1: it's hard. They don't seem to realize it's become a meme.
16:44
Speaker 1: But it has.
16:45
Speaker 3: Well, mean, it's kind of a constant with them, isn't that. Yeah,
16:49
Speaker 3: they don't understand that. They're like, oh no, we're not
16:51
Speaker 3: agreeing with you. We're just more like sarcastic, make it funny.
16:55
Speaker 3: Oh but anyway, So Mike Sarhovic a former attorney turned
16:59
Speaker 3: up pick artist, blogger turned digital maga warrior. He wrote
17:04
Speaker 3: about topics like how he didn't believe date rape was
17:06
Speaker 3: a thing and how to chock a woman. He wrote
17:09
Speaker 3: a best selling book and sold supplements. Why is it
17:12
Speaker 3: always supplements? There's always supplements involved, I swear anyway. He
17:16
Speaker 3: played a big role in the harassment of women during
17:19
Speaker 3: gamer Gate, and he once said quote, if a Republican
17:22
Speaker 3: acted like me and ran for office, it'd be a movement.
17:26
Speaker 3: Donald Trump has proven me right. People are tired of peace.
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Speaker 3: So the self titled President of the Minosphere, Anthony Dream Johnson,
17:35
Speaker 3: host of the twenty one Convention, and founder of twenty
17:37
Speaker 3: one University, the Number one School for Men, which is
17:41
Speaker 3: a YouTube channel. He sells hats with slogans like make
17:45
Speaker 3: women cook again, make women virgins again, which huh, and
17:50
Speaker 3: make women thin again. And he's been around since two
17:53
Speaker 3: thousand and six.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was kind of again, it's so hard to
17:59
Speaker 1: find any joy in any of this, but it was
18:01
Speaker 1: kind of funny when people were writing about him, because
18:03
Speaker 1: they were like, Oh, he's the old that no one
18:06
Speaker 1: cares about him in the madness sphere anymore. But he's
18:10
Speaker 1: still around. You still doing damage, don't you doubt it? Oh? No,
18:14
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah. And then there's the anonymous Bronze Age
18:19
Speaker 1: pervert RbAp, who was later identified as Yale Political Science PhD.
18:25
Speaker 1: Costin Ala Mario. He wrote The Bronze Age Mindset, and
18:29
Speaker 1: it has fans both in young conservative men, but also
18:33
Speaker 1: in people like Trump's speechwriter and Oron Desanti's employee, who
18:37
Speaker 1: basically said it should be required reading. In this work,
18:40
Speaker 1: he wrote about how beautiful the man's body is, and
18:45
Speaker 1: hearkens back to ancient cultures and Western civilization, claiming that
18:48
Speaker 1: women have drained men's vital essence and compared immigrants to
18:52
Speaker 1: hordes of zombies. He went on to write for the
18:56
Speaker 1: magazine Man's World, which is sort of all about lifting
18:59
Speaker 1: weights and eating meat to be more masculine. Another thing
19:03
Speaker 1: that comes up a lot in the manisphere testicles fitness
19:07
Speaker 1: YouTuber Elliott Holst is a prime example. He was radicalized
19:11
Speaker 1: through YouTube comments. It's actually an interesting case study because
19:17
Speaker 1: it usually we think of the content creator radicalizing people,
19:22
Speaker 1: but he was radicalized by his commenters. Anyway, He first
19:28
Speaker 1: experimented with the occult before becoming a Christian nationalist. He
19:33
Speaker 1: blamed feminism on Karl Marx and Satan. Then later he
19:37
Speaker 1: converted to Islam and started espousing the benefits of quote
19:41
Speaker 1: weaponized chastity, going on to hold a talk Dominate your wife,
19:46
Speaker 1: Dominate your life, which he did with his wife. But yeah,
19:51
Speaker 1: he did a lot of sperm stuff, like sperm retention.
19:54
Speaker 1: He was I think he was involved in that Tucker
19:57
Speaker 1: Carlson thing where he was talking at that documentary. He
20:03
Speaker 1: documentary is a strong word. That thing he did or
20:05
Speaker 1: he was talking about, like exposing your testicles to UV
20:09
Speaker 1: waves or whatever.
20:11
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, all of that.
20:13
Speaker 3: I really could not I swear these were blended with
20:16
Speaker 3: onion articles that I couldn't remember what was actual truth
20:20
Speaker 3: or what actually was a satire.
20:22
Speaker 1: No, I know it's real, okay. Oh and then there's
20:33
Speaker 1: Kevin Samuels, who's often credited with forming the Black Manisphere.
20:37
Speaker 1: So after Trump was elected, a lot of the racism
20:40
Speaker 1: adherent in many of these spaces created the opportunity for
20:44
Speaker 1: the rise of the Black Minisphere. So basically like, I
20:49
Speaker 1: don't be here because you're being really racist, but still
20:52
Speaker 1: got some thoughts about this. For instance, several comments and
20:55
Speaker 1: at least one Foundational Manifesto included languages around white women
21:00
Speaker 1: and dating men of color and how quote wrong. It
21:02
Speaker 1: was inter Samuels who rose to popularity in twenty twenty
21:06
Speaker 1: when he pivoted from reviewing Colonne fragrances towards degrading and
21:10
Speaker 1: condescending dating advice aim towards black women, mostly black women.
21:16
Speaker 1: He also had a cameo on the show Atlanta and
21:19
Speaker 1: was in a promo video with Future. He died in
21:22
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. Similarly, the podcast Fresh and Fit as
21:26
Speaker 1: a very very same vibe where the hosts bring on
21:30
Speaker 1: black women to insult them.
21:32
Speaker 2: Right, and they originally wasn't like that.
21:35
Speaker 3: They really it went and there's other podcasters similar to
21:40
Speaker 3: this that kind of got raped over the coals because
21:43
Speaker 3: their entire platform was like they're the good guys, and
21:46
Speaker 3: that's kind of how Fresh and Fit began. They seem
21:49
Speaker 3: like cole guys who are like, oh good, we've got
21:52
Speaker 3: people from the black community profiting off of podcasting. Thank goodness,
21:56
Speaker 3: because it's podcasting. We've talked about this. It wasn't diverse
21:59
Speaker 3: for the very for a very long time, and it's
22:01
Speaker 3: still typically not, still technically not, and now men are
22:04
Speaker 3: making way still making way more money than women in general.
22:07
Speaker 3: But Fresh and Fit was one of those that people
22:10
Speaker 3: were like, oh good, something different.
22:12
Speaker 2: And then they started getting more and more and more
22:14
Speaker 2: and more.
22:14
Speaker 3: Like sexist and misogynist and misogynire that it became like
22:19
Speaker 3: what is happening? And two they went into the all
22:22
Speaker 3: right platform.
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Speaker 2: I don't know.
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Speaker 3: So there's another podcast called Gigs and it's spelled s
22:28
Speaker 3: h x t S in Gigs and they were also
22:32
Speaker 3: like they were supposed to be the remedy to Fresh
22:35
Speaker 3: and Fit. I think They were an English black podcasters
22:38
Speaker 3: and then they came to Atlanta and said some really
22:40
Speaker 3: degrading things about black women and they were like, oh,
22:44
Speaker 3: that was your ento, that was your entire your audience.
22:47
Speaker 2: What were you thinking?
22:49
Speaker 3: And it has something to the balance of and I
22:53
Speaker 3: think this might be a whole conversation the balance of fitness,
22:57
Speaker 3: because they were kind of originating with like fitness content
23:00
Speaker 3: it and then comedy content, and then it went into
23:02
Speaker 3: this and they didn't mean to. They just kind of
23:06
Speaker 3: their masks slipped for a second and they got called
23:08
Speaker 3: out real hard. I haven't seen because usually this is
23:10
Speaker 3: the pipeline that we see is when they finally show
23:14
Speaker 3: their actual opinions, then they start going hand leaning that
23:17
Speaker 3: way in order to make money off of that content.
23:20
Speaker 1: Yeah.
23:21
Speaker 3: So I'm like, there's this conversation of like, they originally
23:24
Speaker 3: started out this way and they had a great audience
23:26
Speaker 3: and what that was like that made them popular, and
23:28
Speaker 3: then it faded into.
23:29
Speaker 2: This, and you're what what happened?
23:32
Speaker 1: Right? And that we are going to talk about that
23:36
Speaker 1: a little because anyone who knows anything about this knows
23:39
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to talk about Andrew T. I know,
23:41
Speaker 1: I'm sorry but it has to be done.
23:44
Speaker 3: That's a content warning on his own.
23:46
Speaker 2: Honestly, here it is sorry, sorry, but distress.
23:53
Speaker 1: No, honestly, we do. One of the defenses the lawyer
24:00
Speaker 1: gave was which I don't believe. But one of the
24:03
Speaker 1: defenses he gave was he doesn't believe this. It makes money,
24:08
Speaker 1: Like right, he saw this was an opportunity, it made
24:12
Speaker 1: him money act and so he did it. And I
24:15
Speaker 1: do think it's interesting how many of these cases they
24:17
Speaker 1: did start as something else and then they became these
24:25
Speaker 1: far right personalities. But anyway, many of the big names
24:34
Speaker 1: in the black man sphere are a proponent of the
24:37
Speaker 1: quote save your Self Black Men philosophy, which heaches black
24:40
Speaker 1: men that they can improve their situation by distancing themselves
24:43
Speaker 1: from black women and communities. One of these proponents wrote,
24:47
Speaker 1: save Yourself black Men is not about saving the black community.
24:49
Speaker 1: As far as we are concerned, the black community is
24:51
Speaker 1: dead and black women were the ones who killed it.
24:54
Speaker 1: There's a couple of really good articles about this, and
24:57
Speaker 1: there's a really good MPR code Switch episode about this
25:04
Speaker 1: where one of the women Black women described her experience
25:11
Speaker 1: online dating and she started to pick up on like
25:15
Speaker 1: these words people would use, and they just kept coming up,
25:21
Speaker 1: and they're so popular inside these manispheres that like, if
25:26
Speaker 1: you don't know about it, you don't but they were
25:29
Speaker 1: kind of she started to pick up on, like, oh
25:31
Speaker 1: that is you were consuming some kind of online content
25:37
Speaker 1: that is damaging and bad and I do not want
25:40
Speaker 1: to be with you.
25:40
Speaker 3: Right. So, writer and historian Aaron Fountain Junior has been
25:45
Speaker 3: looking into the rise of Minisphere and he wrote this,
25:50
Speaker 3: the white minisphere is trying to reverse the hands of
25:53
Speaker 3: time to regain a patriarchy that they felt that they lost.
25:57
Speaker 3: The Black Minisphere, on the other hand, are trying to
26:00
Speaker 3: gain a sense of patriarchy that they were never entitled to.
26:03
Speaker 3: And that's a big sentence like that, Yes, yeah, I
26:07
Speaker 3: feel like we could also say that too, like Latino
26:10
Speaker 3: creators and all of that.
26:12
Speaker 1: Asian creators, yeah, oh yeah yeah, because.
26:17
Speaker 3: Under the Influence just went through a huge reckoning. Who
26:20
Speaker 3: was an all Asian cast with two Asian women and
26:23
Speaker 3: two Asian men, and they went through it because not
26:26
Speaker 3: only did they call out Drew Afualo, who is a
26:29
Speaker 3: big feminist, like we've talked about her before, and just
26:34
Speaker 3: like the calling out and she like, you know, you
26:37
Speaker 3: go negative, I'm gonna go ten times worse type of content,
26:40
Speaker 3: but like she's always kept it real and that like
26:43
Speaker 3: it's abrasive, but you know, it's one of those like
26:46
Speaker 3: she's like, oh, you want to call me fat, let's
26:48
Speaker 3: go type of conversation. And they called her out and
26:51
Speaker 3: then the conversations came out where the Asian woman content
26:56
Speaker 3: podcaster was like, there's a rumor a black women's vaginas
26:59
Speaker 3: and went into the and then there was a whole
27:01
Speaker 3: conversation pretty much like a racist conversation. It all started
27:04
Speaker 3: popping off and it's under podcasts and they were making
27:06
Speaker 3: a lot of money and then they lost it, Like
27:09
Speaker 3: they have lost it all and have repeatedly tried to
27:11
Speaker 3: do damage control but it's not working.
27:14
Speaker 2: And I love that for them.
27:16
Speaker 3: But it's interesting because that's exactly this is that would
27:19
Speaker 3: follow under this as well, the fact that you are
27:21
Speaker 3: trying to begain something that you were never welcome to
27:26
Speaker 3: and will never be welcome to.
27:28
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And like I said, there is a really
27:31
Speaker 1: good episode on NPR co Switch that's all about this.
27:34
Speaker 1: Because during the build up to the election, people were,
27:40
Speaker 1: you know, worried, and so they did an episode called
27:43
Speaker 1: diving into the black manisphere. But one of the points
27:47
Speaker 1: they bring up that is, during the pandemic and in
27:49
Speaker 1: our gig economy, a lot of us were spending a
27:53
Speaker 1: lot more time isolated online or listening to podcasts, and
27:57
Speaker 1: how that has contributed to this rise that we see
27:59
Speaker 1: all over, which is not specific to the black menisphere,
28:02
Speaker 1: but that's just what they were focusing on. They also
28:04
Speaker 1: broke down the long history of gender and race politics
28:08
Speaker 1: after black men gained the right to vote but black
28:10
Speaker 1: women did not, So I really recommend it, but the
28:14
Speaker 1: GOP did lean into that. Trump said, I'm going through
28:18
Speaker 1: the roof of black men. Black men. I don't do
28:21
Speaker 1: quite as well with black women, I must say, and
28:23
Speaker 1: they had a like strategy to get black men not
28:26
Speaker 1: to vote. But yeah, yeah, this is also exists in
28:29
Speaker 1: other racial groups where marginalized men leave the largely white
28:33
Speaker 1: male dominated manisphere due to their lack of discussions about
28:37
Speaker 1: race or their racial serves and racism, all of it
28:41
Speaker 1: to form their own communities. So yeah, but here we go.
28:44
Speaker 1: Andrew Tates, I'm sorry, the so called King of Toxic masculinity.
28:52
Speaker 1: Most of you are probably familiar with Andrew Tates, but
28:55
Speaker 1: He was a former professional kickboxer and a reality show
28:59
Speaker 1: contestant that then went on to become an influencer on
29:02
Speaker 1: social media, and he really made a name for himself
29:06
Speaker 1: for being the most misogynist playboy, even offering a video
29:11
Speaker 1: course about how to sleep with more women that he
29:13
Speaker 1: titled PhD or Pimp'in' host Greed. He had what he
29:18
Speaker 1: called his hustling University. He was very big on like,
29:22
Speaker 1: look how rich I am, and you can do it too.
29:25
Speaker 1: Just pay me money and I'll give you this class,
29:27
Speaker 1: which is what a lot of them do, by the way,
29:29
Speaker 1: but he was very like, look at my Bugatti, I
29:33
Speaker 1: think is the thing that they say. His videos on
29:37
Speaker 1: TikTok have over twelve billion views. At one point, he
29:39
Speaker 1: was the eighth most googled person in the world. He
29:43
Speaker 1: was banned from most platforms in twenty twenty two and
29:47
Speaker 1: then arrested on allegations of rape, exportation for pornography, and
29:51
Speaker 1: human trafficking. He was released under house arrest and his
29:56
Speaker 1: as I said. His attorney argued that it was all
29:58
Speaker 1: in act, which is funny because he was banned from
30:02
Speaker 1: Twitter for saying women should bear some responsibility for being
30:05
Speaker 1: raped but Elon Musk reinstated him when he took over.
30:09
Speaker 1: In a deleted video, he claimed he moved to Romania
30:12
Speaker 1: because of their less harsh punishments for a rape, and
30:15
Speaker 1: allegedly texted a woman I loved raping you. And he
30:19
Speaker 1: was tweeting during the election, which we'll talk about a
30:21
Speaker 1: little bit more. But yeah, he's still around, So if
30:23
Speaker 1: it was an act, still doing it.
30:26
Speaker 2: And acting really proud of something he didn't do.
30:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep. Popular podcaster Joe Rogan comes up in this
30:34
Speaker 1: conversation too. As you said, Samantha, we should probably do
30:38
Speaker 1: a whole thing on just what's going on in men's podcast.
30:42
Speaker 1: But in these spaces, the people were mentioning our heroes.
30:46
Speaker 1: They are father figures, they are older brothers. They are
30:48
Speaker 1: teaching young boys and men how to be a man
30:52
Speaker 1: in that very patriarchal sense. Recent studies have found that
30:57
Speaker 1: these anti feminist, misogynistic views are forming younger than in
31:01
Speaker 1: previous years, and part thanks to access to these online spaces.
31:05
Speaker 1: Studies have also found links between toxic masculinity and sexual violence.
31:11
Speaker 1: On the one I'm like, yes, yeah, I mean it
31:14
Speaker 1: feels obvious, but they were like, see, not.
31:21
Speaker 3: So a twenty twenty four UK report deemed the violence
31:24
Speaker 3: against women and girls They're a national emergency and concluded
31:28
Speaker 3: the rise of radicalization amongst men and boys are terrifying.
31:33
Speaker 3: They were reporting the equivalent to three thousand crimes a day.
31:38
Speaker 1: That they were linking to this right. An early twenty
31:41
Speaker 1: twenty four study out of the country out of the UK,
31:44
Speaker 1: found that six out of ten boys aged eleven to
31:46
Speaker 1: fourteen had been exposed to misogynistic content online. Yeah also
31:50
Speaker 1: found that about sixty percent were led to this content
31:53
Speaker 1: with AI algorithms. Multiple reports have found teachers struggling to
31:58
Speaker 1: combat with this, especially the popularity of Andrew Tait. Multiple
32:03
Speaker 1: countries have had reports about this with teachers and Andrew
32:08
Speaker 1: Tate and struggle. People surveyed reported arise in things like
32:13
Speaker 1: rape jokes and a rewarding of bad behavior. So like
32:16
Speaker 1: in one instance, some boys maybe made him make rape
32:21
Speaker 1: joke and they basically just got to like go sit
32:25
Speaker 1: outside for a while, they got out of class essentially.
32:28
Speaker 3: Right, Well, we also know when they harass young women,
32:31
Speaker 3: they don't do anything either, and they punish both in
32:35
Speaker 3: school oftentimes. So here's a quote from a teen vogue
32:38
Speaker 3: op ed by Lex mcmanmon called Andrew Tate and the
32:42
Speaker 3: Minisphere show how far hating women can get you. So
32:45
Speaker 3: they write que the objectionable, misleading headlines, reminding us to
32:49
Speaker 3: be kinder to men, to cater to boys, to basically
32:53
Speaker 3: go all in on reinforcing patriarchy and hopes that it
32:56
Speaker 3: sues humiliation and saves lives. That feminists are undervaluing men's
33:01
Speaker 3: emotions and that's why romantic relationships aren't working. That personal
33:05
Speaker 3: writing is getting ruined by women's self victimizing tendencies. Essentially,
33:10
Speaker 3: that feminism is focusing too much on women and not
33:13
Speaker 3: enough on men. At nauseum until I have an aneurysm,
33:16
Speaker 3: I guess.
33:17
Speaker 1: Yes, and it goes on. The algorithm isn't some kind
33:20
Speaker 1: of abstract, preordained, divine creation. It's basically the preferences of
33:25
Speaker 1: the guys who wrote it made it into a machine
33:27
Speaker 1: churning away, writes economist umher Haik. The fame of man
33:31
Speaker 1: influencers is created. It's not some kind of natural phenomenon
33:34
Speaker 1: reflecting some kind of innate desire of the male psyche.
33:38
Speaker 1: So all of this has been connected to the rise
33:41
Speaker 1: of angry white men doing the first Trump presidency and
33:44
Speaker 1: what is called aggrieved entitlement, and it is something that
33:49
Speaker 1: comes up whenever Bridget comes on and talks about technology.
33:53
Speaker 1: Is why that's so important? Who's making this technology? And
33:58
Speaker 1: I do remember I remember walking home soon after the
34:01
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen election and a group of boys was just
34:03
Speaker 1: chanting grab her by the pody to every woman walked
34:07
Speaker 1: to by. So there's definitely they were pretty young.
34:12
Speaker 2: Right, and now the new chant is your body, my choice.
34:15
Speaker 1: Yep, we're gonna talk about uh oh no, okay. So
34:22
Speaker 1: a lot of this content is interspersed throughout with jokes
34:28
Speaker 1: or unrelated anecdotes. Andrew Tait was very good at that,
34:32
Speaker 1: so the creator can pull off the classic It was
34:34
Speaker 1: a joke like so you can you could start to
34:38
Speaker 1: watch something and not know how toxic it is. And
34:42
Speaker 1: one of the studies were referencing here. They did one
34:46
Speaker 1: that was like, overtly this is and then they did
34:49
Speaker 1: one that was very much framed was like this is
34:52
Speaker 1: a support group. But once you kind of dug into it,
34:56
Speaker 1: m mmmmmm. They frequently claim that they are evidence based.
35:03
Speaker 1: They are not. They say they would never vote for
35:06
Speaker 1: a politician who is a woman, and yeah too, reiterate,
35:10
Speaker 1: these creators are making bank major corporations make money off
35:13
Speaker 1: of credibly accused and convicted Manisphere folks while laying off
35:17
Speaker 1: their own employees. Popular media does play a role as well.
35:22
Speaker 1: That could be a whole separate episode, but there have
35:24
Speaker 1: been a lot of articles written about characters like Patrick
35:27
Speaker 1: Bateman from American Psycho, one of their heroes who also
35:31
Speaker 1: embodies the hustler aspect that's common throughout all of these things,
35:35
Speaker 1: Homelander from The Boys, Joaquin Phoenix's the Joker but not
35:39
Speaker 1: the new one heaven forbid, or they're like guiding stars
35:44
Speaker 1: for those in the Manisphere, even though they are often
35:48
Speaker 1: completely misinterpreting. Satire ar critique of those characters, Yep and
35:55
Speaker 1: DeSantis played on this very year showing some of these
36:01
Speaker 1: characters in a political ad, which I have to say
36:03
Speaker 1: was very homo erotic and I wish I could just
36:06
Speaker 1: laugh at it instead of it having political ramifications. But
36:09
Speaker 1: it was very homrotics.
36:11
Speaker 3: I mean that was half of like Trump people idealizing
36:15
Speaker 3: and idolizing Trump and making him into these weird caricature
36:20
Speaker 3: figures with like the muscular dude or like over the like.
36:24
Speaker 2: What are y'all doing this is just great.
36:29
Speaker 1: So much of this is obsession around like muscles and
36:37
Speaker 1: I'm this Rhonda santis Ad had like sweaty men wrestling
36:42
Speaker 1: with each other. I was shocked that no one was like, Hi,
36:51
Speaker 1: this is odd. But that's why when you said, like
36:54
Speaker 1: so many of these are supplements, it's because a lot
36:58
Speaker 1: of it is I will I will sell you this
37:01
Speaker 1: fitness XYZ, right, and then you can get the women,
37:08
Speaker 1: because that's all it takes, I guess. And unfortunately we
37:23
Speaker 1: should also probably come back to this. We're good. Are
37:25
Speaker 1: a lot of homework on this one. There are a
37:28
Speaker 1: lot of global examples. We're mostly talking about United States
37:31
Speaker 1: in this, but these man influencers and others that we
37:34
Speaker 1: have not mentioned truly have become a global influence. They
37:38
Speaker 1: have a global reach. There have been recent articles from
37:41
Speaker 1: South Korea, Australia, India, and Kenya about the damage of them,
37:45
Speaker 1: just to name a few, and the effects have been
37:48
Speaker 1: pretty horrific. Like I was reading accounts from women in
37:52
Speaker 1: Kenya and they were saying it felt so sudden, like
37:56
Speaker 1: this was not a problem before, but then he starts
37:59
Speaker 1: using this terminology and then he becomes violent, and then
38:01
Speaker 1: like and it's these manisphere spaces. Also, this has been
38:10
Speaker 1: a long time on mar List, but women hating women
38:13
Speaker 1: because this is not just men who are a part
38:15
Speaker 1: of this. It is important to note that women can
38:18
Speaker 1: be a part of these communities as well in some capacity,
38:21
Speaker 1: because like we talked about with in cells, there's sort
38:25
Speaker 1: of a like you can be but only down here.
38:30
Speaker 1: Or they have their own anti feminists, anti women communities.
38:35
Speaker 1: Chadwives is a good example, turfs good example, the whole
38:41
Speaker 1: not like other women idea. So they are a part
38:44
Speaker 1: of these online spaces and they are influencers in them.
38:48
Speaker 1: They are consumers of them, and even if they aren't,
38:52
Speaker 1: they can pick that stuff up from usually the men
38:56
Speaker 1: in their lives. I did think about a knives out
39:00
Speaker 1: glass onion, or there was that character who was dating
39:05
Speaker 1: Dave Bautista and she he was a man influencer and
39:11
Speaker 1: she was doing like playing it up and like, oh,
39:14
Speaker 1: I also love women and boobs, huh. But then later
39:17
Speaker 1: when she's being honest, she's like, oh, yeah, I'm just
39:19
Speaker 1: using that to get a leg up. So I don't know.
39:23
Speaker 1: There was a whole conversation to be had about women
39:25
Speaker 1: in Trump's Cabinet. In all of this, there's a conversation
39:29
Speaker 1: to be had about confirmation bias, which is when, in
39:35
Speaker 1: this case, when women are afraid of proving stereotypes correct
39:42
Speaker 1: so they don't like Usually it's like, oh, it's like
39:46
Speaker 1: in a personal example, I dropped out of calculus because
39:50
Speaker 1: I was afraid of proving the stereotype correct that women
39:54
Speaker 1: are bad at math. So I think that's part of
39:56
Speaker 1: this too, and it does influence women, influence women, even
40:00
Speaker 1: if you disagree, because you can see my Monday mini
40:02
Speaker 1: I did about not being pretty enough to be raped,
40:05
Speaker 1: for one example. So this stuff is there. And then
40:11
Speaker 1: when you're looking at white women in white supremacy going
40:14
Speaker 1: for Trump twice, I think this is a combo of
40:16
Speaker 1: white supremacy and hating other women. It's placing whiteness over gender.
40:21
Speaker 1: But yes, there are many examples of women and white
40:24
Speaker 1: women making this content like this same in this manisphere,
40:29
Speaker 1: even though the people in manisphere are like, that's cute, right,
40:35
Speaker 1: I'll accept you, But.
40:36
Speaker 3: Right, I mean Naas Smith is kind of a great
40:41
Speaker 3: example of truly disassociating her identity for.
40:51
Speaker 1: Gain.
40:51
Speaker 3: I guess I don't know as like a person of color,
40:55
Speaker 3: a woman of color who had come into this. She
40:58
Speaker 3: never says anything about being a trap wise if she
41:00
Speaker 3: kind of just keeps it low with the I my
41:02
Speaker 3: husband wants this, so I'm going to make this from scratch.
41:05
Speaker 3: He wanted gums, so I'm going to make it from scratch.
41:07
Speaker 2: By this with this.
41:08
Speaker 3: Very calm and soothing voice. I think it did come
41:11
Speaker 3: out that her husband is a Trump supporter, like he
41:14
Speaker 3: finally admitted to it, or like he endorsed Trump. I
41:17
Speaker 3: don't know, but everybody's kind of like, what are you doing?
41:21
Speaker 3: And her feeding into this narrative because it's making her
41:25
Speaker 3: money and she doesn't care because as long as she
41:27
Speaker 3: is quote unquote safe. Now she's not saying all this,
41:30
Speaker 3: but this is the attitude that is bringing it on,
41:32
Speaker 3: Like she doesn't care because for her, this is making
41:35
Speaker 3: her money, this is making him money. She's getting to
41:38
Speaker 3: do all these things and this popularity alone is enough.
41:42
Speaker 3: But the amount of money she's getting as a content
41:44
Speaker 3: creator is over the top. And she's really just like
41:47
Speaker 3: disassociating the vict that, ay, you're about to get all
41:51
Speaker 3: of this taken away from you and you're only being
41:53
Speaker 3: accepted because you're playing their part. That they are allowing
41:57
Speaker 3: you to play the missive wife that does whatever he
42:02
Speaker 3: wants at the drop of the die. Having sixteen children,
42:05
Speaker 3: that's not how many children, but you know what I mean.
42:06
Speaker 3: It's an interesting conversation, but just also with white women
42:10
Speaker 3: in general, Like there's this interview. I don't know if
42:13
Speaker 3: you saw this interview where this woman who is a
42:18
Speaker 3: Trump supporter, I think she did some things with a campaign,
42:20
Speaker 3: was like, I'm the VP of this organization that is
42:23
Speaker 3: supporting Trump, but I would love to be at home
42:26
Speaker 3: not doing this. And this is what's gonna be great
42:29
Speaker 3: is when trumpet in the support I can be of
42:30
Speaker 3: wife and not have to worry.
42:32
Speaker 2: About all these things that are.
42:33
Speaker 1: Like you could have done that much, you can't do that.
42:37
Speaker 2: What is stopping you? That's the whole point of that choice.
42:43
Speaker 2: We want you to do what it is that you
42:45
Speaker 2: want to do.
42:45
Speaker 3: It. If it's just to be a stay at home mom,
42:48
Speaker 3: just make sure you find that partner. Yeah, that's going
42:51
Speaker 3: to support, which sounds like is the problem not other women?
42:55
Speaker 2: So I don't understand.
42:56
Speaker 1: Right right, Well, there was a and I keep coming
43:00
Speaker 1: back to this even though it happened in twenty sixteen,
43:02
Speaker 1: but there was a brief interview I saw of a
43:05
Speaker 1: woman who was a Trump supporter, and the interviewer she's
43:12
Speaker 1: just asking her why she wouldn't vote for Clinton, and
43:14
Speaker 1: she was like, well, I think you know women, aren't
43:17
Speaker 1: they They aren't leadership material and she listed a bunch
43:20
Speaker 1: of reasons, and then he was like, but you own
43:22
Speaker 1: your own automobile shop, right, and she's like, oh, yeah,
43:25
Speaker 1: I'm really good and and he was like, so do
43:29
Speaker 1: you think that you can't lead it? And she was like,
43:31
Speaker 1: oh no, no, no, no, no, not me. I'm really good. Yeah.
43:34
Speaker 1: So like that that dissonance, that disconnect right of like
43:39
Speaker 1: I'm not like those of their girls. I am because
43:43
Speaker 1: we still demonize women so much. It's the lesser that
43:48
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense. It's like, no, no for me,
43:53
Speaker 1: is a great for you?
43:55
Speaker 2: I'm right.
44:00
Speaker 3: Conversation of like they can't suck it up? Why do
44:03
Speaker 3: they have to shake things up?
44:06
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
44:06
Speaker 2: We just wanted to say what it is.
44:08
Speaker 3: But at the same time, they're the one that's making progress,
44:10
Speaker 3: Like they don't even realize they're part of the progress.
44:12
Speaker 2: And you're like, baby, there.
44:19
Speaker 1: Right there.
44:20
Speaker 3: And the same woman that I was talking about talks
44:22
Speaker 3: about how she doesn't think women should be allowed to vote,
44:25
Speaker 3: and I'm like, you're a part of you are the
44:27
Speaker 3: leadership of an organization for POTT what.
44:30
Speaker 1: Yes, m hm, oh, why are you here?
44:34
Speaker 2: Why are you here?
44:36
Speaker 1: It's a great question, Samantha, It's a great question. But yes.
44:41
Speaker 1: All of this does, unfortunately bring us to the recent
44:45
Speaker 1: presidential election results, which was influenced by a lot of
44:48
Speaker 1: this and has given even more credence to these toxic
44:52
Speaker 1: ideas amongst these communities. Soon after Trump's win was announced
44:57
Speaker 1: and cells started posting the slogan your body might t
45:01
Speaker 1: It was popularized by white supremacist Nick Fuentes, who said
45:04
Speaker 1: on election night, we control your bodies. Guess what, guys
45:07
Speaker 1: went again? Okay, men went again. There will never ever
45:11
Speaker 1: be a female president. It's over glass ceiling is a
45:14
Speaker 1: glass made of bricks. Another variation is we own your
45:18
Speaker 1: bodies now, and there have been reports of young boys
45:23
Speaker 1: chanting this in classes. There were also violent memes and
45:26
Speaker 1: calls for rape squads.
45:29
Speaker 3: Right and unfortunately. Andrew Tate has also been active on Twitter,
45:33
Speaker 3: saying I saw a woman crossing the road today, but
45:35
Speaker 3: I just kept my foot down right of way.
45:38
Speaker 2: You no longer have rights.
45:40
Speaker 1: That's like one of the least offensive things he said.
45:43
Speaker 1: But yep, there's been similar racist phrases proliferating too, And
45:48
Speaker 1: now there have been a lot of recent studies done
45:51
Speaker 1: about how often these are either bots or young men
45:56
Speaker 1: that like willed when discovered like children. But I think
46:01
Speaker 1: we should keep it in mind that it doesn't negate
46:03
Speaker 1: the fact that this is harmful silencing the sympt of
46:06
Speaker 1: much larger issues. And there are plenty plenty of people
46:10
Speaker 1: who think this and are making money off of it.
46:15
Speaker 1: Trump appeared on these shows. He appealed to the manisphere
46:19
Speaker 1: with his very do whatever you want, say whatever you want,
46:22
Speaker 1: be rich, no consequences attitude. He thanked them by name
46:27
Speaker 1: and a recent speech he's got his whole love of
46:31
Speaker 1: UFC wrestling. There it fits wright in. People who consume
46:36
Speaker 1: this content are far more likely to be pro authoritarian,
46:39
Speaker 1: pro dictator, pro fascism because they believe in this strong
46:42
Speaker 1: man narrative. They also argue that women and people of color,
46:45
Speaker 1: depending on the group, shouldn't have the right to vote.
46:48
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's this. Wasn't just that woman saying that.
46:53
Speaker 1: And to be clear, all of this has contributed to
46:56
Speaker 1: an uptick of sexual assault, violence and murder, including the
47:00
Speaker 1: increase in men slaying their entire families, which I know
47:02
Speaker 1: has been on our list for a while to talk about,
47:06
Speaker 1: but it came up doing this research. So yeah, there's
47:11
Speaker 1: a lot of work to be done here. It's not
47:13
Speaker 1: going to be easy. Thank you to all the journalists
47:16
Speaker 1: who are reporting on this, who have often been harassed
47:19
Speaker 1: or docsed or silenced by publishers unwilling to publish their
47:24
Speaker 1: work there. I mean, there are some basic like having
47:29
Speaker 1: more women in marginalized folks in tech would be great,
47:32
Speaker 1: Holding platforms accountable would be great. There are organizations and
47:36
Speaker 1: resources online, especially for guardians who are seeing this in
47:39
Speaker 1: their children or want to prevent it, so you can
47:44
Speaker 1: you can look that up. Those do exist, and there
47:47
Speaker 1: are people doing this often very difficult work that could
47:52
Speaker 1: get you harassed online or worse.
47:55
Speaker 3: Right Also, now that I'm thinking about it, we need
47:58
Speaker 3: to figure out where are we going to go, like
48:02
Speaker 3: social media wise, because obviously Twitter is nah, Facebook is
48:07
Speaker 3: a nana, Instagram is also nah.
48:10
Speaker 2: So where are we going? Andie and TikTok is gonna
48:11
Speaker 2: be banned?
48:12
Speaker 1: Y'all?
48:13
Speaker 3: Where's everybody meeting at famam at speaking of tech.
48:18
Speaker 1: Trump will be interesting about TikTok because the billionaire convinced
48:22
Speaker 1: him not to ban it. Oh, but then he got
48:25
Speaker 1: real mad.
48:25
Speaker 3: But then he's going to get real control going to
48:28
Speaker 3: how much he's going to blame things on China.
48:30
Speaker 2: We have to see about that.
48:32
Speaker 3: He might try to distract from what's been happening with
48:35
Speaker 3: Russia recently. But who knows all that to say? Is
48:39
Speaker 3: fam where we at Blue Sky? I heard that's the thing?
48:41
Speaker 3: Are we going back to discord? We talked about that
48:43
Speaker 3: for a minute.
48:48
Speaker 1: Well, let us know listens where we go, and funnily enough,
48:51
Speaker 1: you could still contact us in those places, So please
48:57
Speaker 1: let us know if you have any thoughts about this.
48:59
Speaker 1: And yeah, if you just have any topics you want
49:03
Speaker 1: us to cover, any resources you want us to shout out,
49:06
Speaker 1: you can emails and Steffan your mom stuff at I Heeart Media.
49:08
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at Mom's a podcast,
49:10
Speaker 1: or on Instagram and TikTok and stuff. Never told you.
49:13
Speaker 1: We're also on YouTube. We have a tea Public story
49:15
Speaker 1: and we have a book you can get wherever you
49:16
Speaker 1: get your book. Thanks as always to our super producer
49:19
Speaker 1: Christina Executive producer Maya and her contributor Joey. Thank you
49:22
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. Stuff Never Told You
49:25
Speaker 1: is production by Heart Radio. For more podcasts or my
49:27
Speaker 1: heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app,
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