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Erasto Mpemba: The High School Student Who Disproved Thermodynamics · Ridiculous History

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
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Speaker 1: to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much for
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Speaker 1: tuning in. Today's episode is about something that ostensibly is
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Speaker 1: a very very small thing but turns out to be
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Speaker 1: very mysterious and it has profound implications. My name is Ben,
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Speaker 1: and you know I cannot abide your riddles, sir, my
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Speaker 1: name is Noel. By the way, I can't abide them.
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Speaker 1: I enjoy them. They just make me furious because they're
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Speaker 1: they're they're very difficult to solve. Your like the troll
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Speaker 1: at the bridge and the Monty Python Movie's way better.
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Speaker 1: Look that's okay, Well, good safe, Thank you man. There's
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Speaker 1: a there's super producer Casey Pegrum. We're back in that
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Speaker 1: studio we mentioned in a previous episode where we're surrounded
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Speaker 1: by fan art that it is not about us. We're
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Speaker 1: surrounded by fan art, but not surrounded by fans. It
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Speaker 1: tends to get pretty hot in here. We call this
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Speaker 1: one the sweat box. That's that's true. That's true. It
1:18
Speaker 1: has it has an official name, which is Bowie, but
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Speaker 1: then it has the real name we all use with Stinky,
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Speaker 1: the Stinky Sweatbox. So here. Here's the thing this is.
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Speaker 1: This is a bit of a riddle. I like that
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Speaker 1: phrase because it's something we haven't solved. It turns out
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Speaker 1: that if you have a glass of hot water and
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Speaker 1: you have a glass of cold water and you put
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Speaker 1: them in a freezer, one of them freezes faster than
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Speaker 1: the other. It's gotta be the cold water bend, because
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Speaker 1: it's already part of the way there to being frozen
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Speaker 1: because it's cold. That's what I would think too, That's
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Speaker 1: what everybody thought. But it turns out the hot water
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Speaker 1: actually freezes more quickly. I hate that. You hate when
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Speaker 1: hot water freezes. I just hate that it defies my
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Speaker 1: meager understanding of the universe. Hey, we all have a
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Speaker 1: meager understanding of the universe. You know, we're taking baby steps.
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Speaker 1: This is called the Mapemba effect mp E m b A.
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Speaker 1: Do youm ma pember the time when this demodynamics we
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Speaker 1: were working on that? What I have been thinking about
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Speaker 1: it ever since we started looking at this topic. It's
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Speaker 1: true the spoiler alert. We have a lot of questions
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Speaker 1: about this thing called the Mapemba effect. And you may
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Speaker 1: be asking yourself, why why is my why is my
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Speaker 1: history crew talking science? On me. Do you guys bait
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Speaker 1: and switch me. I've wanted a science show. I would
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Speaker 1: listen to a science show. Well, we're examining the story
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Speaker 1: of how the Mapemba effect came to be. It's true,
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Speaker 1: and it turns out we are just as non experts
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Speaker 1: on science as we are in history. So thematically this
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Speaker 1: is appropriate, very on brand. Ma Pemba. The Matpemba effect
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Speaker 1: was in fact named after a Tanzaniine schoolboy who thought,
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Speaker 1: against all logical reasoning, that ice cream would freeze quicker
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Speaker 1: if it was first heated. Now, how would someone come
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Speaker 1: up with such a crazy idea as that? That was
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Speaker 1: the question his coort, his classmates and his peers were
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Speaker 1: asking when they mercilessly mocked him. Until that is he
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Speaker 1: partnered up with his instructor and they performed an experiment. Now,
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Speaker 1: Orasto Pemba, that's his full name. He was a teenager
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Speaker 1: at the time and he was, as he said, nol
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Speaker 1: at school in Tanzania in the nineteen sixties, and he
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Speaker 1: had lessons in I love this First, he had lessons
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Speaker 1: in cookery and that's what led him to the ice
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Speaker 1: cream angle. He was taught to make ice cream by
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Speaker 1: heating up milk and sugar together on a stove and
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Speaker 1: then you're supposed to leave the mixture to cool to
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Speaker 1: room temperature and then you put it in the freezer
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Speaker 1: to make that delicious, delicious ice cream. But maybe because
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Speaker 1: he was in a hurry, maybe because he was just
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Speaker 1: a rebel without a cause or a rebel without a cream. Uh,
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Speaker 1: he put his hot mix of milk and sugar straight
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Speaker 1: into the freezer and then he found that it froze
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Speaker 1: faster then it should have. Then everybody assumed it would,
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Speaker 1: you know, because he liked the rest of the world thought.
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Speaker 1: You know, freezing is reaching a certain temperature, right, so
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Speaker 1: if you're heating something, you're further away from that freezing temperature,
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Speaker 1: so it should take longer. That's just common sense, right. Uh.
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Speaker 1: It's strange because it turned out that was not the case. Now. Now, Pemba,
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Speaker 1: from what we understand, was kind of the black sheep
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Speaker 1: of his class. He wasn't super popular, right, and that's
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Speaker 1: because he stuck to his guns, and some of his
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Speaker 1: guns were weird ones. In three when um Pemba was
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Speaker 1: in Form three in Magamba Secondary School, so that would
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Speaker 1: be the equivalent of kind of like a middle early
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Speaker 1: high school situation. Um. He was fond of, as were
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Speaker 1: many of the other boys in the school, of making
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Speaker 1: ice cream. Uh. And he talks about this in a quote.
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Speaker 1: He says, the boys at the school do this by
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Speaker 1: boiling milk, mixing it with sugar, and putting it into
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Speaker 1: the freezing chamber in the refrigerator. A lot of boys
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Speaker 1: make it, and there's a rush to get space. So
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Speaker 1: so if you don't get your mixture in, you have
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Speaker 1: to wait till other people's ice cream is done. And
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Speaker 1: that you know, it takes a while for for that
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Speaker 1: to freeze as well, because they're a room temperature like
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Speaker 1: some schmucks. That's right. So he he got scooped to
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Speaker 1: use an ice cream term by one of the other
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Speaker 1: boys who you know, bum rushed him to get that space. Uh.
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Speaker 1: And instead of missing his chance, he made a game
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Speaker 1: time clutch decision. Didn't even he did. He said, you know,
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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna put it in while it's hot. It'll
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Speaker 1: be fine. And then he came back half an hour,
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Speaker 1: no an hour and a half later with a friend
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Speaker 1: of his, and he found that his tray of milk
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Speaker 1: had frozen into ice cream completely. But his pals was
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Speaker 1: still not frozen. It had become a thick liquid, but
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Speaker 1: it wasn't quite ice cream. He was surprised and he
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Speaker 1: asked his physics teacher, Hey, what's going on? And his
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Speaker 1: physics teacher said, well, here's what's going on, young Mr
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Speaker 1: m Pemba. You are confused because what you were describing
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Speaker 1: is impossible. And he kind of shrugged and said the
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Speaker 1: equivalent of well, you're the you're the teacher, you're the expert.
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Speaker 1: I guess it's your job to crush my dreams of
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Speaker 1: scientific greatness. Uh. But you know, he wouldn't be he
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Speaker 1: wouldn't be stiming too much longer because he did eventually
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Speaker 1: try it again, even though he believed the teacher at
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Speaker 1: the time. But later that year he met a pal
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Speaker 1: who had his own little side hustle selling ice cream
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Speaker 1: and tanga uh, and he told Pemba that when he
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Speaker 1: made his ice cream, he put the hot liquids in
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Speaker 1: the fridge to make them freeze faster. I love that
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Speaker 1: he's because the ice cream vendor is like, yeah, yeah, arasto.
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Speaker 1: Everybody knows, this is my job to know these things, buddy,
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Speaker 1: in a very functional way. Because again it saves time,
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Speaker 1: and Ma Pemba found that this was kind of common
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Speaker 1: knowledge among the ice cream literati of of of Tanga Town. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: this reminds me a little bit of when you hear
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Speaker 1: stories of Western Europeans quote unquote discovering something like smallpox
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Speaker 1: vaccines and stuff. And this is no shade to Edward Jenner.
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Speaker 1: It typically turns out that somewhere else in the world
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Speaker 1: there's some ancient culture that knew about this four thousands
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Speaker 1: of years And in the case of the Ma Pemba effect,
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Speaker 1: it wasn't just the ice cream vendors in Tanga Town
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Speaker 1: who knew about this. It turns out that people to
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Speaker 1: some degree knew about what we call them Pemba effect
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Speaker 1: as far as two thousand years ago. Right, our boy
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Speaker 1: Aristotle actually noticed this back as far as the fourth
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Speaker 1: century when he wrote that many people, when they want
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Speaker 1: to cool water, quickly begin by putting it in the sun.
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Speaker 1: That's how Aristotle talked. Yeah, and this is of course
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Speaker 1: before Aristotle is not specifically talking about ice cream, but
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Speaker 1: he is. He's wondering about it. He asked why does
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Speaker 1: this happen? And Francis Bacon and renewed decart asked the
8:21
Speaker 1: same question. And it's weird because the cart like these
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Speaker 1: guys are making the same observation. Seriously, Descartes says, we do.
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Speaker 1: We just been kept a long time on the thighs
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Speaker 1: is fast than than other water. Now your guy sounds
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Speaker 1: like he's actually out in the cold when he's saying this,
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Speaker 1: he sounded he had a little chill in your bones.
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Speaker 1: It's classic Renee man. I gotta wonder, man, is this
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Speaker 1: effect similar? I mean, I know they're not wonder wine,
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Speaker 1: but you know, the whole idea of you defrost meat
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Speaker 1: under cold water. I wonder if that's similar, because according
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Speaker 1: to a few articles, meat um can warm up master
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Speaker 1: from cold water because cold water conducts heat better. I
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Speaker 1: don't know they're they're not the same at all. I
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Speaker 1: just just occurred to me that it's a counterintuitive side, right.
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Speaker 1: And then let's see Francis Bacon notes the same thing,
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Speaker 1: and then the scientists mar Leani in Renaissance Italy. So
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Speaker 1: we have multiple luminaries noticing this. But all of this
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Speaker 1: is the interesting thing. They kind of forget about it
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Speaker 1: because every single person who notes it just says, huh,
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Speaker 1: that's weird. I wonder what's going on with uh? With that?
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Speaker 1: And then they move on to other stuff. Yeah, like
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Speaker 1: dissecting the nature of reality. You know, it's more of
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Speaker 1: a priority for these these thinkers, right right, And uh,
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Speaker 1: my Pemba is the one who brings this back into conversation.
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Speaker 1: So let's fast forward to when he's in high school.
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Speaker 1: He learns about something called Newton's Law of cooling, and
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Speaker 1: that says essentially, uh, it lays out the rules for
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Speaker 1: how hot bodies are supposed to cool and they have
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Speaker 1: a couple of assumptions, you know, to keep it simple,
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Speaker 1: love a hot body and an assumption. Right. So, so
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Speaker 1: then he asked his teacher again, you know what happened?
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Speaker 1: Teachers like you're you're confused, And the teacher had like
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Speaker 1: this kind of snooty burn. Did you see that part
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Speaker 1: his response to the Pemba. No, I didn't tell me ben,
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Speaker 1: so I can be burned as well his snooty burn is.
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Speaker 1: All I can say is that is more Pemba's physics
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Speaker 1: and not the universal physics. And and then from then
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Speaker 1: on he would make fun of the kid like he
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Speaker 1: would the teacher would make fun of him anytime he
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Speaker 1: made a mistake in math or physics. He would be like,
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Speaker 1: that's more pember mathematics. I see was his was his
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Speaker 1: teacher Foghorn Leghorn, I don't know. He shows up a
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Speaker 1: lot in history or sort of some sort of genteel
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Speaker 1: Southern lawyer. I don't know, but he was. I don't
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Speaker 1: think that's a good way to teach students, I agree, definitely,
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Speaker 1: Not by making fun of them and making them kind
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Speaker 1: of feel uh like, you know, reluctant to express new ideas.
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Speaker 1: That's that's no good at all. Yeah, but thankfully for
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Speaker 1: history and our entire species. Ma Pemba was not so
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Speaker 1: easily cowed. He was tenacious and he kept going. Eventually
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Speaker 1: he teamed up with a guy named Dennis Osborne, a
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Speaker 1: professor of physics at the University of Dar s Salam. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: he met him when he went to speak at Micawa
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Speaker 1: High School. And at this event at the high school
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Speaker 1: he kind of feeled the questions from student body about
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Speaker 1: like what should I do with my life? You know,
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Speaker 1: what do I want to be when I grow up
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Speaker 1: and all that stuff kind of a career day thing. Well, absolutely,
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Speaker 1: and one of them was how do I get to university?
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Speaker 1: And uh, you know, he had kind a more run
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Speaker 1: of the mill questions like that, Ma Pemba asked why
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Speaker 1: did hot water freeze more quickly than cold? So Ma
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Speaker 1: Pemba's recollection is the professor Professor Osborne's smiled and then
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Speaker 1: say hey, could you repeat that? And then he repeated
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Speaker 1: the question why did hot water freeze more quickly than cold?
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Speaker 1: And so after that repetition, the professor says, is it true?
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Speaker 1: Have you done it? Yes? And then the professor said,
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Speaker 1: I do not know, but I promised to try this
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Speaker 1: experiment when I am back in dag Salam. And so
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Speaker 1: this this question still stuck with Osborne and he was surprised.
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Speaker 1: You know, he thought, obviously this kid is wrong, but
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Speaker 1: unlike Pemba's earlier teacher, he's not being a jerk. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: and he actually gives the kid's benefit of the doubt.
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Speaker 1: I mean, he thinks that maybe he has made a mistake,
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Speaker 1: but he's gonna you know, uh, what's the word trust,
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Speaker 1: but verify, not the opposite of that. He doesn't trust,
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Speaker 1: but he still wants to verify doubt but there verify.
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Speaker 1: I like that as a as a as a sort
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Speaker 1: of a different version anti Reagan. I totally agree. But
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Speaker 1: he actually did the thing. You know, he told the
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Speaker 1: kid that he'd tried it, and he actually did. And uh,
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Speaker 1: you know all of the ridicule and and and teasing
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Speaker 1: that m Pemba had gotten at the hands of his
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Speaker 1: clearly awful awful classmates and student and teachers, you know,
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Speaker 1: I mean, good lord, Yeah, there's class sounds really intense
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Speaker 1: because the next day is tom Pemba's recollection. His classmates
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Speaker 1: were picking on him in a group and they were saying,
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Speaker 1: you have shamed us by asking that question. I've never
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Speaker 1: been I've done a lot of career days, both as
13:25
Speaker 1: a kid and going to speak at like local schools
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Speaker 1: and stuff, and I have never been in a situation
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Speaker 1: where I thought some kid was going to be shamed
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Speaker 1: or shaming. That's strange, absolutely not. So here's the thing.
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Speaker 1: Osborne actually was pretty surprised because there was a tech
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Speaker 1: at the University College in dhar who tried the same
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Speaker 1: thing and and he saw these results in advance of
13:52
Speaker 1: him even doing the experiment himself, and so he tried
13:55
Speaker 1: to you know, explain them and logic them out and
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Speaker 1: came up with a couple of different theoretical explanations. Uh,
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Speaker 1: and then actually published the material in different journals. Right yeah. Uh.
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Speaker 1: The professor didn't believe the technician either, but he said, okay,
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Speaker 1: let's team up. Let's let's experiment with this. So here's
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Speaker 1: what they did. They did just what we described at
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Speaker 1: the top of the show. They took one glass of
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Speaker 1: water at degrees fahrenheit, and they took another glass of
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Speaker 1: boiling water, and they put them both in a freezer.
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Speaker 1: And then they said, well, by golly, by gosh, by gum,
14:29
Speaker 1: that hotter one did turn to ice at a faster rate.
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Speaker 1: So in ninety nine they publish a paper on this
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Speaker 1: experiment in physics education, and the name of the paper
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Speaker 1: is this will be great for everyone who has to
14:44
Speaker 1: read a lot of scientific journals. The title of this
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Speaker 1: paper is simply cool with the question mark cool to
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Speaker 1: be kind. There we go. Yeah, and then it's like
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Speaker 1: a lesson on how to believe students too. Uh. So
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Speaker 1: this result has been replicated numerous numerous times. But according
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Speaker 1: to a great article and Wired, what's up with that
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Speaker 1: Repemba effect. The thing is, the pember effect doesn't always
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Speaker 1: appear to work, and it depends on the relative temperatures
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Speaker 1: of the two liquids, So kudos the Osborne for saying
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Speaker 1: this amazing quote. He says, surprising questions are fun. They're
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Speaker 1: not to be despised. One piece that's to my credit
15:28
Speaker 1: is that I did not despise. I went off and
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Speaker 1: researched it. High five man. I feel like I meant
15:33
Speaker 1: like watching the end of Mr Holland's Opus or what's that?
15:37
Speaker 1: What's the other stand and delivers Jaws Police Academy. For
15:41
Speaker 1: all the hits about preaching hearts and minds? Um So,
15:45
Speaker 1: where where did the part, the real part at the
15:48
Speaker 1: end of of Mr Holland's Opus or this Mr Holland's
15:51
Speaker 1: Opus sized version of the story when Mapemba gets his
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Speaker 1: due by having the effect and question named after him. Yeah, yeah,
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Speaker 1: it's when he published that paper in sixty nine with
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Speaker 1: Dr Osborne. Uh. He was at this time Ma Pemba
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Speaker 1: was studying at the College of African Wildlife Management, but
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Speaker 1: he never gave up his fascination with the Mapemba effect.
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Speaker 1: And how cool is it to have an effect named
16:17
Speaker 1: after you, especially because he has so many close calls.
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Speaker 1: It could have been the Bacon effect in the car effect,
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Speaker 1: the Aristotle effect. I mean, let's be honest, he did
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Speaker 1: the least amount of work. Pemba ma, pemba. Yeah he
16:30
Speaker 1: I mean, he's rewarded for his tenacity and standing up
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Speaker 1: and asking the question. But then, you know, there was
16:35
Speaker 1: a lot of parallel thinking that went into this. But
16:37
Speaker 1: I do think it's kind of cute that he got
16:39
Speaker 1: his name attached to it. It's great. Yeah, he got
16:41
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, he dealt with a lot
16:43
Speaker 1: of a lot of bullying and a lot of mean
16:45
Speaker 1: treatment from these crappy kids, and he got to have
16:47
Speaker 1: his I told you so a moment. But he also
16:49
Speaker 1: seemed like a good kid, and I doubt if he
16:51
Speaker 1: if he exercised said moment, you know what I mean. Yeah,
16:55
Speaker 1: I have a quick question for the audience to Casey.
16:57
Speaker 1: Don't get mad at me for asking this. If there
16:59
Speaker 1: was a Pegram effect, what would the Pegram effect be, sir?
17:02
Speaker 1: I think you get first response to this, the Pegram
17:05
Speaker 1: effect it would be to pop up for a few
17:10
Speaker 1: seconds at a time and a podcast and uh and
17:13
Speaker 1: receive an outsize portion of attention. Foresaid brief interjections. Well, honestly, Casey,
17:20
Speaker 1: who is in fact on the case. That's sort of
17:23
Speaker 1: how you do at parties, you know, the pegram effect.
17:26
Speaker 1: You sort of pop in, make a big impression and
17:28
Speaker 1: then your ghost out like Kaiser. SoSE that's that's yeah,
17:32
Speaker 1: that's the George castanz away. Right, you leave him one more,
17:34
Speaker 1: you leave one more. Okay, So now we get to
17:40
Speaker 1: we call this the science Hack part of the podcast. Yeah,
17:43
Speaker 1: can we get a sound cute Casey, something that makes
17:45
Speaker 1: it sound scientifically minded and like we are wearing white
17:50
Speaker 1: lab coats, perhaps some chamber music or whatever. Yeah, I like,
17:54
Speaker 1: I like whatever this is because it's great and uh
17:57
Speaker 1: curated by hand by super brooster Casey, which is this
18:01
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite trust falls in the podcasting
18:04
Speaker 1: because Casey always kills it. So yeah, it turns out
18:08
Speaker 1: that we still don't know. We just know what everybody
18:10
Speaker 1: has agreed to call this thing. And like you said,
18:13
Speaker 1: earlier and old scientists have come up with a bunch
18:16
Speaker 1: of different explanations, but none of them are one solving
18:21
Speaker 1: the case. The most straightforward explanation is this, and it's
18:27
Speaker 1: the idea that hot water evaporates more than cold water,
18:31
Speaker 1: So when boiling water cools down, it's losing a little
18:34
Speaker 1: bit of its mass because it's turning to steam, right,
18:38
Speaker 1: it floats away. And then if that is the case,
18:41
Speaker 1: then hot water freezes faster than cold water just because
18:45
Speaker 1: there's less of it, the same way that like a
18:48
Speaker 1: couple of water would freeze faster than say a swimming pool.
18:51
Speaker 1: So that sounds like it works, right that. That sounds
18:53
Speaker 1: like it's a an elegant answer to the question. Or
18:58
Speaker 1: is it? Because there's a problem with this theory, remember
19:02
Speaker 1: not all of them. What's the problem with this one? Yeah?
19:05
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there are there is some math
19:08
Speaker 1: that uh shows that this evaporation principle is in fact
19:13
Speaker 1: a thing, But that only accounts for a part of
19:16
Speaker 1: this supposed pemba effect, uh. And there have to be
19:20
Speaker 1: other things at play, right, I mean the pemba uh
19:23
Speaker 1: he he you know, let's give him a little credit here.
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Speaker 1: He did, you know, I sort of gave him a
19:28
Speaker 1: hard time in this in the fashion of some of
19:30
Speaker 1: these Tanzanian schoolboys. And boy, boy, do I feel like
19:33
Speaker 1: a hell I'm ashamed of myself now. But he did
19:36
Speaker 1: do some testing himself, right, and he measured the mass
19:39
Speaker 1: uh loss to evaporation in that experiment. Um. But he
19:44
Speaker 1: found that it wasn't quite enough to explain the observable effects,
19:49
Speaker 1: right that the that the hot water froze quicker than
19:52
Speaker 1: the cold water. So there's a lot of other ideas
19:54
Speaker 1: of play, or at least a few that are super important.
19:56
Speaker 1: One is the dissolved gases actually change waters freezing point,
20:01
Speaker 1: or um the surrounding environment of the water could actually
20:07
Speaker 1: have an effect on the outcome. Right. Yeah, those both
20:11
Speaker 1: makes sense, and in some cases they're the explanation. The
20:16
Speaker 1: problem is that most of those explanations only apply in
20:21
Speaker 1: a limited set of cases and one other plots wast here.
20:27
Speaker 1: Now that we've now that we've built up the Pemba
20:29
Speaker 1: effect in the story of Rastom Pemba, Uh, we should
20:33
Speaker 1: go ahead and and throw in a turn. You see,
20:37
Speaker 1: some scientists aren't even convinced the Mpemba effect is real annoying, right, yeah,
20:44
Speaker 1: it really throws a wrench into our whole thesis here. Yeah,
20:46
Speaker 1: we we have were pretty deep into the episode now
20:49
Speaker 1: to drop that one. Yeah, it's true. So the thing
20:53
Speaker 1: about the paper cool that Mpemba and Osborne published is
20:57
Speaker 1: that it has these very extreme differences in freezing time
21:01
Speaker 1: between hot water and cold water, and literally no one
21:05
Speaker 1: has been able to recreate those specific differences. Since there's
21:09
Speaker 1: a really great line to that. That for me sums
21:12
Speaker 1: up you know, science, and it just says, uh, science
21:17
Speaker 1: is always complicated. I would tend to agree with that.
21:21
Speaker 1: But the thing is, there are so many different factors
21:24
Speaker 1: that could contribute to different results in these experiments. Uh,
21:28
Speaker 1: and and this this effect that it's almost impossible to
21:30
Speaker 1: measure them all, I guess, and that sort of the deal.
21:33
Speaker 1: It's tough. There are a lot of variables at play. Uh.
21:36
Speaker 1: And of course, you know, scientists at the edge of
21:40
Speaker 1: research can be somewhat oppositional and passionate, and they want
21:43
Speaker 1: to argue back and forth to find the correct answer.
21:46
Speaker 1: There was a paper in twenty sixteen by Henry Burridge
21:49
Speaker 1: and Paul Lindon. That's right, that's how how recent this
21:54
Speaker 1: debate remains. Uh. The Linden and Burridge were writing for
21:57
Speaker 1: the University of Cambridge and they said there is quote
22:01
Speaker 1: no evidence to support meaningful observations of the mat Pemba effect.
22:06
Speaker 1: They think it's misleading. They think we're misinterpreting. They think
22:09
Speaker 1: the Pemba effect is a red herring, and that they're
22:12
Speaker 1: just slight inaccuracies and measurements. That's the thing. What are
22:15
Speaker 1: we measuring when we say freezes faster, right, that's the issue.
22:18
Speaker 1: We're talking about the time it takes to get to uh,
22:21
Speaker 1: the freezing point, or the time it takes for it
22:24
Speaker 1: to become completely frozen over. And there's different time frames
22:29
Speaker 1: where these things can happen, right, Yeah, absolutely, Like if
22:33
Speaker 1: you froze two things in a in a freezer, even
22:35
Speaker 1: if it was two glasses of water the same exact temperature,
22:38
Speaker 1: wouldn't they potentially not go through the same exact process
22:42
Speaker 1: at the same exact time. Couldn't have to do with
22:44
Speaker 1: the particular zone that they're in in the freezer. Maybe
22:48
Speaker 1: there's colder spots or something like. Again, no science expert here,
22:52
Speaker 1: but it does occur to me that in my fridge,
22:54
Speaker 1: for example, if I have something closer to the back
22:56
Speaker 1: of the fridge, it's gonna even freeze a little bit
22:59
Speaker 1: in the refrigera rad and then the stuff close to
23:01
Speaker 1: the front doesn't. So there's definitely variations in temperature in
23:04
Speaker 1: what would be a consumer fridge, which is what he
23:08
Speaker 1: was using for this original experiment when he originally observed
23:11
Speaker 1: this phenomena, Right, yeah, I think that's a good I
23:13
Speaker 1: think that's a really good point. It's strange because it
23:18
Speaker 1: is very difficult to measure this. For instance, in that
23:21
Speaker 1: paper where they argue there's no such thing as the
23:24
Speaker 1: Ma Pembo effect, the scientists say there's a ten percent
23:27
Speaker 1: inaccuracy when you measure the height of a thermometer when
23:30
Speaker 1: you're taking the water's temperature, and that could trick someone
23:33
Speaker 1: into thinking that they have observed this effect. Just for
23:38
Speaker 1: the record, that papers argument is still pretty controversial, and
23:42
Speaker 1: many many scientists say, okay, let's not let's not throw
23:46
Speaker 1: out the baby with the ma pembo water. It's still
23:51
Speaker 1: it's still very difficult, and that's why Pemba effect experiments,
23:54
Speaker 1: even if you do want your own house or at
23:58
Speaker 1: your own secret underground oratory, that's why you may find
24:02
Speaker 1: different results from one experiment to the next. Here's the kicker.
24:06
Speaker 1: Even when procedures are repeated with with with what appears
24:10
Speaker 1: to be the exact same conditions, that's tough, you know.
24:14
Speaker 1: And then people argue over definitions just like you were
24:17
Speaker 1: bringing up and only say, like when we say something
24:19
Speaker 1: freezes faster, are we saying the time it just reaches
24:23
Speaker 1: the first freezing point at the time when it completely freezes.
24:26
Speaker 1: I mean, what, what what are we talking about? You know? Well,
24:34
Speaker 1: so my takeaway from this podcast episode today is that
24:37
Speaker 1: science is a sham um and school children are smarter
24:41
Speaker 1: than scientists, right yeah, yeah, overthrow the academy. Uh, shout
24:47
Speaker 1: out to all the scientists in the crowd. I'm just kidding.
24:50
Speaker 1: You guys are great. We need you, Yeah, we need you.
24:52
Speaker 1: Please don't leave the country. And at least yeah, and
24:56
Speaker 1: if your teacher is letting you listen to this in class, uh,
25:00
Speaker 1: than kudos to them, because you have a great teacher exactly.
25:04
Speaker 1: You have like a doctor Osborne, kind of wonderful taste
25:07
Speaker 1: in human beings, subject matter, a paragon of what it
25:12
Speaker 1: means to teach, you know. Uh. Probably your teacher probably
25:16
Speaker 1: also is very good looking, really funny, smells great, all
25:22
Speaker 1: of that stuff. How much are we gonna pander here?
25:24
Speaker 1: I think I think we've I think we've pandered ourselves
25:26
Speaker 1: into a corner back. We reached peak pander I think
25:29
Speaker 1: we have, and we've reached peak podcast as well. I
25:31
Speaker 1: think we can get close to wrapping up this tale today,
25:33
Speaker 1: can't we ben Yeah, we can. We just want to
25:36
Speaker 1: end on an epilogue with my pemba with what happens
25:39
Speaker 1: to Erasto himself. So, as we said, he is not
25:44
Speaker 1: working in physics education. He started working at the Ivory
25:50
Speaker 1: Room in Dar s Salam. He was working with wildlife
25:55
Speaker 1: and he originally wanted to be a doctor, but there
25:58
Speaker 1: were financial problems to pay for the training, so wildlife
26:02
Speaker 1: management was the best way for him to get an
26:04
Speaker 1: overseas scholarship. Is it mayored as the Ivory Room selling
26:07
Speaker 1: the name of a very exclusive night club, like the
26:10
Speaker 1: Viper Room or something? Sure? Yeah, yeah, And then across
26:13
Speaker 1: town you have the Ebony Room. Yeah, Like Ivory Room
26:17
Speaker 1: sounds like maybe something a Victorian era tycoon has in
26:22
Speaker 1: their mansion. These will adjourn to the Ivory Room. And
26:27
Speaker 1: just just a backtrack really quick. My reference to the
26:29
Speaker 1: Ebany Room was just going full circle to Michael Jackson.
26:32
Speaker 1: Uh do you remember, do you pember? The time there
26:34
Speaker 1: we go? You got there And eventually he did achieve
26:38
Speaker 1: his goal of of studying abroad. He got as a
26:41
Speaker 1: degree in Australia at the Canberra College of Advanced Education.
26:45
Speaker 1: Camera is that how you pronounced? I think that's hotly
26:47
Speaker 1: as he has pronouncing like Melbourne exactly Melbourne and camera.
26:51
Speaker 1: So he got a master's degree from Texas. He became
26:55
Speaker 1: a principal Game Officer and Ministry of Natural Resources and
26:58
Speaker 1: Tourism in the Wildlife Vision and he, after a great career,
27:02
Speaker 1: he retired. His wife is a doctor and he when
27:07
Speaker 1: he was asked if any of their children were physicists,
27:10
Speaker 1: he said no, they are not doing well at all
27:14
Speaker 1: in physics. Do you think he still enjoys a good
27:18
Speaker 1: ice cream? I hope so, man. I I feel like
27:22
Speaker 1: he's earned it. I think so too. You get sprinkles.
27:24
Speaker 1: I think you get sprinkles. Oh man, what what do
27:26
Speaker 1: you go for? Ice cream wise? What do you guys
27:28
Speaker 1: go for? Really? Like a chocolate dip, like the old
27:31
Speaker 1: dairy Queen hard hardened chocolate dip. Really fond of that.
27:35
Speaker 1: I like like a hazel nut. Yeah, there's this Turkish
27:39
Speaker 1: ice cream I always wanted to try, or this Turkish
27:42
Speaker 1: ice cream like substance. Yeah. You know, my favorite ice
27:45
Speaker 1: cream flavor is of all time was that? And it's
27:47
Speaker 1: not a favorite for everyone. It's a it's a very
27:49
Speaker 1: polarizing flavor. Pistachio. Pistachio. Huh I could get down with
27:52
Speaker 1: some pistachio. How about case pegram. I'm pretty boring. I
27:55
Speaker 1: like vanilla, I like chocolate. Um, I'm pretty easy going.
27:58
Speaker 1: Get out. Yeah, I'll show myself. Can we can we
28:02
Speaker 1: maybe uh convert you? Because there's I have a guy
28:05
Speaker 1: without a sweet tooth, and I gotta tell you, even
28:07
Speaker 1: for me, there's a lot of amazing ice cream out there. Yeah.
28:10
Speaker 1: I was. I was in a kind of a Ben
28:12
Speaker 1: and Jerry's phase for a while, and I had stuff
28:14
Speaker 1: doing that. So yeah, yeah, well you know, it's it's
28:18
Speaker 1: easy to tear through one of those things in a
28:21
Speaker 1: single sitting. So to tell you what a good alternative
28:23
Speaker 1: to that is, they have these new uh they're called
28:24
Speaker 1: pint slices. They're like chocolate covered like a cross section
28:29
Speaker 1: of one of those. So rather than eating the whole pint,
28:32
Speaker 1: you eat a circular cut out of the pint. I
28:34
Speaker 1: can get down with that, because the thing about the
28:36
Speaker 1: Ben and Jerry's is they've got such variation as as
28:39
Speaker 1: you know, in the ripple or whatever in the texture.
28:41
Speaker 1: One bite is not gonna give you all of the majesty,
28:44
Speaker 1: especially when like the hard kind of chocolate chunks or
28:47
Speaker 1: whatever that you're kind of digging for and you're like,
28:49
Speaker 1: let me just get one more those, and then like
28:50
Speaker 1: half the things gone. And and also they're the are
28:54
Speaker 1: these what you're talking about? Man? The tiny cups? No, No,
28:57
Speaker 1: they also have tiny cups. The tiny cups are great,
28:59
Speaker 1: and that's a very good alternative to getting a because
29:02
Speaker 1: then you can get a few of them and you
29:03
Speaker 1: can kind of mix and match. But the pint slices
29:05
Speaker 1: are literally like an ice cream sandwich minus the sandwich,
29:08
Speaker 1: but they're covered in chocolate and it's like a cross
29:10
Speaker 1: section slice of like a pint in the middle kind
29:13
Speaker 1: of I gotta check when this out. Also, gelato, I
29:16
Speaker 1: like a good gelot good what I think a gelato
29:19
Speaker 1: just has more more heavy on the cream. If I'm
29:22
Speaker 1: not mistaken, it feels silkier, smoother. Yeah, maybe that's just
29:27
Speaker 1: the way it's been sold here in the US. Also
29:30
Speaker 1: last week, unrelated ice cream fact. I love this. I
29:34
Speaker 1: think we may have talked about a previous episode. But
29:36
Speaker 1: hoggin Dawes doesn't mean anything. The term is just made
29:41
Speaker 1: up because the people who created Hoggin DAWs wanted it
29:44
Speaker 1: to sound fancy. It has umluds in it. You can't
29:48
Speaker 1: just put um louds in things. Ben. Sorry, man, we
29:51
Speaker 1: live in a society that the memes were right. Like
29:53
Speaker 1: the band motor Head you knows, been pronounced it as
29:56
Speaker 1: you were supposed to, it would be muter hid great.
30:00
Speaker 1: I hope it haunts them. Uh yeah, well r I
30:03
Speaker 1: p Letty, Yes, r I p Letty and huge thanks
30:07
Speaker 1: to Rasco Ma Pemba. I hope we all find this
30:12
Speaker 1: story inspiring because it means that no matter where you
30:15
Speaker 1: are in life, no matter who you are in life,
30:18
Speaker 1: you can you can genuinely make a difference. And you
30:23
Speaker 1: can do that just by paying attention to the world
30:26
Speaker 1: around you and sticking to your guns. So that's that's
30:30
Speaker 1: the takeaway from this, at least on my end, you know.
30:33
Speaker 1: And then we gotta get yeah, Casey some we We're
30:36
Speaker 1: gonna get you some weird ice cream. Man, We're gonna
30:38
Speaker 1: get you some some We're getta get weird with it.
30:41
Speaker 1: Look forward to it. And also science is a sham.
30:44
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for tuning in high five years Science
30:48
Speaker 1: teacher if they were playing this episode uh in class.
30:52
Speaker 1: As always, a big, big thanks to our super producer
30:56
Speaker 1: Casey Pegram and all the weird ice cream as in
30:59
Speaker 1: his future. Thanks Alex Williams who composed that slap and
31:02
Speaker 1: track at the beginning of the show. Thanks to Christopher
31:05
Speaker 1: the Iceman hasiotas here in spirit as always, Jonathan the
31:10
Speaker 1: devil Man uh Strickland who lords over us in in
31:14
Speaker 1: the form of some sort of toxic you know, mi
31:16
Speaker 1: asthma that just kind of like follows us around like
31:20
Speaker 1: a Charlie Brown dark cloud. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and uh
31:24
Speaker 1: thanks to Gabe Young Frosty Lousier. Thanks of course to
31:30
Speaker 1: Eve's waffle Cone Jeff Coach check out her podcast This
31:33
Speaker 1: Day in History Class, and big thanks to you my
31:35
Speaker 1: friend Ben Jamaica Almond Fudge Boland. Hey, thanks to you know,
31:41
Speaker 1: Hazeling the pistachio Brown Hazeling the pistachio And now that
31:44
Speaker 1: sounds right at my alley. It sounds like a good thing, right.
31:48
Speaker 1: You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. What
31:51
Speaker 1: are your favorite ice cream flavors or what are the
31:54
Speaker 1: weirdest ones you've ever seen? And did you like him?
31:56
Speaker 1: How do you feel about science? Let us know. You
31:58
Speaker 1: can check us out on soial media's of all flavors,
32:02
Speaker 1: including Instagram, Twitter. Uh, still not doing the pinterest thing.
32:05
Speaker 1: I think we've finally sworn off doing it. Remember at
32:07
Speaker 1: the beginning the show, we talked about making a Pinterest
32:09
Speaker 1: page and and we thought that was cute for about
32:11
Speaker 1: four episodes and then we let that go. But uh,
32:14
Speaker 1: there's still time. There's always It's a new year, and
32:17
Speaker 1: apparently Pinterest is a great place to make a vision board,
32:19
Speaker 1: and apparently a vision board makes your dreams come true. Yeah,
32:23
Speaker 1: I have a vision board. Seriously, I had it for
32:26
Speaker 1: a couple of years. Now, good for you, man. Our
32:29
Speaker 1: good friend in front of the show, rowan newbie has
32:31
Speaker 1: a band called vision Board but it's spelled b O
32:33
Speaker 1: r D and it's just fantastic. But as I said,
32:36
Speaker 1: you can find us individually as well on social media.
32:39
Speaker 1: I am exclusively on Instagram at how Now Noel Brown
32:41
Speaker 1: I and on Instagram and hopefully I still will be
32:45
Speaker 1: after this next adventure I'm about to take, which you
32:49
Speaker 1: can talk about too much right now, But I am
32:51
Speaker 1: at Ben Boland. You can also find me on Twitter
32:53
Speaker 1: at Ben Bolan h s w uh and I do
32:59
Speaker 1: this like to year. But do you guys want to
33:01
Speaker 1: go get some ice cream? Anybody? It was a little cold, well, yeah,
33:04
Speaker 1: save for the summer now, Okay, well I'm gonna heat
33:07
Speaker 1: it up so it'll be like, yeah, we'll see you
33:11
Speaker 1: next time. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit
33:23
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
33:26
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.