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THE ART OF THE CAREER PIVOT · The Media Odyssey

• Evan Shapiro (00:00) Welcome to Media Odyssey Live. This is a How to Pivot Your Career livestream. we also have Tony Goncalves, it's a C like an S, and Ami Angelowitz, it's a Z like a Z. And we're going to have a great conversation. We're all recovering executives from the media corporate ecosystem, and we've all found ourselves out on the other side in satisfying careers that are totally in our own control. And today we're going to share our own best practices with that. Marion, you left corporate media when? How long ago? Marion Ranchet (00:35) It's been five years now. Evan Shapiro (00:38) And was that by your own choice? Marion Ranchet (00:41) Not really. Evan Shapiro (00:42) Yeah, me either. What was your journey from, you know, the day you got shown the pink slip to figuring out what it is that you wanted to do with the rest of your career? Marion Ranchet (00:54) So, the slip I got was more like a doctor's notes that I just couldn't work, you know, in that setup anymore, then left on my own accord. But I still feel, you know, I didn't really have a choice. I had to, you know, prioritize my health over my job. But essentially, it's funny, the first reaction I rushed, you know, into looking for a job. And then realized, mm, maybe not the right thing to do. And it was a bit of a light bulb moment. And I promise, I'm not saying it, you know, just for the sake of it. I was really like, mm, perhaps I can do my own thing. And so that's how it started for me. How about yourself? Evan Shapiro (01:35) Well, I was fired by Cable Town Comcast on my 50th birthday, and I went up to the roof of my building and got super high, both high and high, and had a conversation with myself about why I came to New York in the first place, which was to make shit. And I realized that as the higher I climbed on the corporate ladder, the less shit I got to make. We talked about it more than we did it. There were more lawyers, accountants, and PowerPoint slides than there were things that we were actually making. And also, I had spent a good deal of time inside corporate media telling them what I thought was going to happen and being ignored. And in fact, Comcast basically decided that the project that I was working on, which was their first premium streaming subscription service, wasn't worth it. It would never add up. And you know, it was an a-ha moment and I decided to basically dedicate myself to creating from that point forward. The word creator wasn't in the vernacular that much yet. It took a while to get my stride though. It wasn't a click. It took years actually, three whole years before I finally got to the place where you know I was I the opportunity was coming my way. And it was the map that people know me for dropping on Deadline, that was the catalyst. That was the kind of you know moment that it kind of ticked off. Ami, I'm interested you had a not terribly dissimilar set of original experiences and then your own set out on your own what was it like for you? Ami Angelowicz (03:15) Yeah, yeah, so I was at Discovery, then Warner Brothers Discovery for eight years. I was the VP of all digital content and social media. And in the eight years that I was there, I went through a million mergers, many reorganizations. I had 10 bosses in almost eight years, if that gives you any idea. I'm sure media people out there, that sounds very familiar. But through it all, always kind of felt like that job was not my ultimate destination. So Evan, like you were saying, with every promotion I got, I spent less time writing and my background is in writing and editorial. I spent less time writing, producing, making shit, creating shit, and spent more time doing meetings and meetings and meetings and meetings, and to put how I felt in simple terms, like absolutely dead inside. So I think we've all heard of burnout, but I didn't learn that there were different kinds of burnout until after my layoff. These are things that I've learned. So the kind of burnout I've learned I was experiencing is called misalignment burnout, which is when our environment, we engage in, and the activities that we do on daily basis kind of go against our innermost values and beliefs. And that leads to a disconnect between our true selves and our professional identity. So this was kind of a big understanding for me. So for instance, if you're a creative person, you like to make things, you've ascended to upper management, where your job mostly consists of meetings, that might give you misalignment burnout because you want to be actually making stuff. So I will say, you know, I knew I wanted to leave for a while, but I was really scared to jump and the pandemic was happening. And, you know, I was feeling, you know, alternately grateful for being employed and then jealous of the people who were hopping on the great resignation bandwagon, all of those people. And in 2023, I was laid off. And I will say that my reaction to the layoff was maybe a little bit unusual. I was very relieved. And that kind of lasted until I got out there in the job market. I did what Marion did, and I immediately started applying for jobs. And I was using what I like to call the throw spaghetti at the wall method of applying for jobs. Like, oh, I could do that. But what I was experiencing was kind of endless applications, rejection emails. The worst kind are those automated ones you get like three months after applying, just demoralizing. And it wasn't doing good things for my self-esteem. And it certainly wasn't helping me get any clarity on what was next for me in my career. It was just kind of feeding a gnawing anxiety and wondering if I would ever work again. So, I will say I kind of like had my turnaround moment, hit rock bottom. I applied for a job that I was wildly overqualified for when I was throwing spaghetti at the wall. And I prepared for days for the interview. And then the hiring manager told me I didn't have enough experience for the role, which I was super overqualified for. And the first realization I had, was a wait I didn't want this job anyway. The second realization I had was why am I devaluing myself like this? And then the third realization I had, which was an important one, was with all this time and energy that I'm spending doing applications, cover letters, interviews, I could be doing something real, like building something for myself. And what I needed to focus on were the things that really lit me up to kind of get back on my right track. And I figured that I needed to get really clear on what that was before I sent out another application. And, you know, my way of processing things is to write. So, I launched my newsletter on Substack called Laid Off Life. And that has allowed me to kind of write through these past three years of confusion in trying to navigate all of this. And that's really when things started to turn around for me. And I experienced this kind of major paradigm shift thinking about what comes next in my career. And it was really simple. I really wanted to go from running other people's agendas to running my own agenda. That was it. That was like my North Star. And it was about a year after my lay or less than a year, I guess, like 10 months after my layoff, I started my own business, Align Digital and Social. So I could apply my skills to help individuals, businesses and brands build effective and sustainable content strategies. And then I also just doubled down on my writing. Getting back to that. So being the creative person that I am, I had all these ideas, and I started pitching and I'm proud to say I sold a movie script and I sold a series to Audible produced by Lorne Michaels production company. And now I'm a member of the Writers Guild and I have my business and three years post layoff I am still figuring things out. Evan, like you said, it took you a little while, but you know, health insurance; don't have that figured out yet. But you know, I do know that I am a lot happier than I've ever been professionally, despite the difficulties and the uncertainties and I'm just continuing along the path. So that is me. Yeah. Evan Shapiro (08:56) There's so much so much great value in what you just said. The misalignment burnout, I think that putting a name on that, I think that's something almost everybody I know in corporate media is going through and tech, by the way, not just big media, big tech as well. Meta laid off a thousand people just this week. and then figuring out your own agenda and and kind of making that the center of your life. It's really good stuff. Just really quickly, if you have any questions, please put them in the comment section wherever you're watching this on LinkedIn or Substack. And we will get to them. Tony, you had a really storied career in corporate media, you know, big jobs, really big jobs. And then, you know, because AT&T shat the bed, you found yourself on the $109 billion burned up in the various acquisitions. You found yourself looking at a new chapter of your life. What was that like? You know, what was that first set of days like on the outside? Tony Goncalves (09:58) Yeah, misalignment burnout. Ami, you just diagnosed it. Thank you so much. I spent a career with misalignment mergers and believing that they were all legit, good for the consumer, good for business, good for shareholders. And what I realized very quickly after being sort of on the other side is that I was never really an objective consumer or shareholder. And for the first time in my career, I could be. And so, I sold all my stock because it was weighing me down. And it was causing me to check myself from you know four, five, six years ago. And it was really, really unhealthy. So that was like one of the first things I literally had to do to separate myself because this was who I was. You know, I spent 15 years starting at DirectTV and ending at the transition to Warner Brothers Discovery and the last year and a half, knowing that it was it for me. A little bit by choice and just a little bit by, you know, Mr. Obvious, right? Like David Zaslov has his guys, right? Has his team. And I wasn't part of that. And so, the first thing, Evan, I actually said to John Stankey when he told me that this thing was happening on Monday. Was Hey bud thank you for all you've done for me and for the path that you've but like waste no political capital on me. There will be lots of executives in this company knocking on your door to go to bat for them. I'm done. Four mergers. This was 2020, 2021. I just assumed the role of Chief Revenue Officer at Warner, I was on a high, the peak of my career. I was humming. I was being the leader that I knew I could be. And it was over. And so, I literally was like, I'm going to, I'm going to do the Seinfeld. Like, I'm going to tap out while it's good and while I still have energy. The problem is I had spent 25 years with lots of humans around me, lots of systems built around me. And one day all of that went away. And I'm not a very organized human being. And so I had to rebuild my system. And I had to go find the thing that gave me purpose because that's actually what drove me when I was in Corporate America. Right? Everything I did had some sort of purpose. I used the companies that I worked for and the projects I worked on as platforms. That was all gone. And so I had to go search. and fast forward, I searched, I found my roots, my heritage in Portugal. It's a popular place. the media, the media business there is more broken than anything I've seen in my life. 14-minute ad pods, and you can't break them. As an example, one euro CPMs on TV. And so, I saw an opportunity to drive some change and you know do something creative. And so, I advised media companies, tech companies in Portugal. I started a podcast, which is amazing. I just started a, I just started an AI friendly independent film production entity with Joanna Vicente. And I'm taking all this learning from my corporate ins-and-outs and the leadership struggles that I had and I'm putting it into a program called Story Forward to help executives, creators, and founders that are struggling through change, just based on my experience. Marion Ranchet (14:05) I love the system reference because you're so right. We're used to number one, have that monthly paycheck, have that brand around your neck that opens doors. When you don't have that anymore, you really realize that you are nothing and no one to people, even people who were, who have been, you know, in your network for years. So let's say that you have to start from scratch. And you know, we've all made a choice of going into doing our own thing. It's not for everyone. Someone in the comments on LinkedIn said, you know, ultimately the mortgage, you know, the insurance, the the all of those, the medicals make you, you know, push people to go to corporate, to full time jobs. And that's great too. There's no one way. Now, how do you rebuild that system, right? Whether it is to go back to a job or to build your own business, how do you go about that? How did you guys do that? Evan Shapiro (15:05) I think, first of all, there there's this Faustian bargain that we've all described here where the company says, Well, for this pay and for this equity and for this power, you have to subvert your own personality to the corporate personality. You have to subvert your personal brand to the corporate brand. And they do that on purpose, especially in the last 20 years. It's, you know, keep your head down, do the job, be a team player, you know, don't rock the boat. Any number of cliches that they give us to keep our fucking mouths shut. So that we don't basically eclipse the value of the brand with our own personal brand. And we all need to stop doing that. So, you know, first and foremost, my thing is like, let's say you're not laid off. Let's say you're worried that you're going to be, let's say that you're unhappy in your job, you feel misalignment, burnout. Today's the day to start building a personal brand. Because if you can build your personal brand before you need to deploy it to get a new gig, it's gonna be way easier for you when you need it. I built a personal brand as an internal disruptor. And so, every time I was looking for a job, there was always somebody in corporate America who thought they wanted a disruptor. They never really did, but they would bring me in to be that person. And so I've been very fortunate because my brand was always larger than the corporate brand I worked for. Opportunity got shipped my way. The other thing I think Ami and Tony and you have exemplified incredibly well is start shipping value to the universe for free on LinkedIn, reaching out to people, offering them stuff. Taking a risk and going out and be you know, getting yourself on a panel or moderating a panel at a conference. Start shipping what you know and your value for free, and the value will get shipped back to you. That to me is that that fear of publishing that a lot of our peers, well, I can't I can't hit send on LinkedIn. What if somebody doesn't like it? Like is are we look who's president of the United States? Pissing people off on the internet is now not necessarily a bad thing. Especially if you're speaking the truth. But shipping your authentic value, you don't have to be a professional asshole like me, but shipping that value for free early and often in your career before it's urgent, it to me is really important. And if you happen to be on the outside looking in now, that's also a great first step is all right, well here's my story, how does how does that relate to you? Ami, I don't know if that's been your experience. Ami Angelowicz (17:47) Yeah, yeah. I mean, I will say like I work with a lot of people on this. And I, this is something I say to all of my clients and I say to myself, you know, find the way that you want to be online that feels authentic to you. So that's, that's the starting point. You know, like I love to write. Some people like to make video. Some people have hot takes or jokes they like to share. You know, some people like to comment on industry news. Find out how you work best and what's authentic to you. So, I will say that to start, that's the biggest tip I give to my clients when we're looking at how they can have a presence online. And you do need to have some kind of presence online, like even before you're laid off or even before you like, I wish I did more of that. You know, I would always say I just don't have time for that. I just, you know, that's not something I have time for. And I didn't have time for it, but you have to have you have to make time for it. So yeah, and it is like it is anxiety producing that feeling of being seen but again, if you can stick to like what is authentic to me. Don't try to be online the way Evan's online try to be online the way you want to be online? How do you want to be seen? What do you have to say? What feels natural? Evan Shapiro (19:09) Yeah, we just got a question. We just got a question from an old friend of mine, Macy Lau, saying, well, how do you decide what to put out there? How do you decide what to publish? Tony, you publish a lot on LinkedIn. What how do you have an editorial filter that you rely on for the posts that you make? How do you decide what you're gonna write on an ongoing basis? Tony Goncalves (19:26) Yeah. I don't have an editorial filter. I you know, my voice is my editorial filter. I lived with filters for twenty-five years. you know, you've probably seen me talk about the rise of the super networks. You know, that's what I think these D2C apps are these days. They're just aggregated super networks. I wasn't allowed to publish that when I was at AT&T. I mean, I built that knowledge. It was mine. I was running around internally with it. And I couldn't publish it because there was merger risk and there was all of this other you know BS. Like I couldn't be myself. And so, I don't really have an editorial filter. I'll tell you what my general filter is, and it's what's actually turned into Story Forward. And it was a bit of a lightbulb moment when I was like, this is uniquely me, and I actually think it can be packaged. It's first understanding what you're optimizing for. Like are you optimizing to be known? Are you optimizing to make money? Are you optimizing to be fulfilled? And by the way, you know, there's a lot of folks in the Warner, you know, sort of Paramount fight, right, that's going on right now, kind of wondering what if? And I bet the majority of them are angling for jobs and salvation, as opposed to trying to really understand what they're optimizing for a title, money, a job, or fucking freedom. Like, and it's okay to optimize for freedom. So that's like the first thing is like just, you know, and that's what I try to do. This week I'm optimizing for, you know, there's a topic on the industry that I'm actually somewhat intrigued with. By the way, Comcast NBC. I haven't published on that. I will publish on that. I have a point of view, and it's actually a positive one. So, you're gonna get pissed off when you read it. Evan Shapiro (21:14) Oh shit. Let's go. Let's go. Tony Goncalves (21:17) So the second thing is is what you just articulated, what both you and Ami just articulated, which is getting comfortable with actually publishing something. I call that like it's understanding personal capitalism, where your humility and your ego kind of show up at the same time and they coexist. And it's okay. Like, and by the way, it's okay for one to show up a little more sometimes than the other. The fact is they both have to be in the room. And then the third thing, if you do those things well, is your understanding of personal IP. And by the way, it doesn't have to be one thing, right? It can be multiple things. And one week, one click, one post, it can be a personal thing, and another one it can be an industry thing. And that ultimately becomes your brand. Ami Angelowicz (22:05) And Tony, those are called content pillars, as we call them in the social media, in the social media and content world. Tony Goncalves (22:15) Exactly. And that's what it turns into. And so that's my filter. But it's interesting. I didn't realize that that's what it was. And Ami, I didn't realize that they were content pillars until I actually started stepping back and going, Oh I actually see a pattern here, which is why it's okay. Maybe it's not spaghetti at the wall on this, maybe it's rigatoni at the wall, right? But like it's okay to throw things out there and see what works. It's called testing. Evan Shapiro (22:40) Well, and you just got a comment from Josh Kinberg, who worked with you at DirectTV, and he said, Tony, you've always been an inspirational leader. That kind of actually is your IP filter. Like inspiration and leadership are the things that I see baked into everything that you put out there and all the stuff that you do. Marion, you you've really built an entire business around your personal intellectual property. It's I mean, it's really impressive. You've got the newsletter, there's our podcast together, The Media Odyssey, which you can subscribe to right now. But also you have live events, you have a consulting business, you just put out a really big report with a big publisher in Europe. How did you come up with your editorial voice and your intellectual property business? Marion Ranchet (23:24) So I was a bit more tech in the way that I tackled this, meaning that I saw myself as a startup. And I was like, what is it, what is the problem that I'm trying to solve? What is it the problem that I see in this industry? And, you know, am I the good person to fix that? And what I saw at the time really came from the time I had spent at Roku, which was a lot of US companies look at Europe and think that it's this big one thing. And they think that they can, you know, just like it's not spaghetti at the wall, it's rigatoni's. They can really just copy and paste, you know, whatever playbook. So really the thinking was I'm gonna help companies launch and grow in Europe. So problem-solution and it's not for everyone. I guess maybe I'm a bit you know that's my you know lawyer background going in in there but as soon as I had a business idea then I built to Ami's point content pillars so you need to talk about that problem that pain and position yourself as the solution. So that all of that really it drove you know my consulting my consulting business end to end like I haven't really chased business that much by focusing my energy on the personal branding, on the content creation. I did not have to do— Evan Shapiro (24:46) The opportunity comes to you, right? Marion Ranchet (24:48) Yeah, I did not have to do biz dev, right? So, I think to Ami's point when people are saying I don't have time and etc, I think if you have a good business idea, it it feels weird to market something before it's actually out there, but it's how you get started, right? So that would be, you know, my advice. You know, see this as a company, solve a problem, you're the solution, and then promote yourself, you know, as as that solution. Not saying it's easy, but I'm starting to see a lot of people doing that you know, in Europe, and I think that's really cool. Ami Angelowicz (25:25) Can I say, oh, sorry. Everyone wants to talk. No, I just wanted to say one more thing, because I think there's people out there, and I know I've talked to a lot of people who just really feel uncomfortable putting themselves out there. And to those people, I would just say, start by starting. You just have to kind of, yeah, you have to test and learn and yeah, try not to read the comments if they're going to upset you. But it's good to read them and get the feedback, but I'm just saying, just commit to saying, I'm gonna post once a week for the next four weeks, know, dip a toe in and then see how it goes from there. That's all I wanted to say. Yeah. Evan Shapiro (26:04) Tony, go ahead. Tony Goncalves (26:06) Yeah, I was just saying, Marion, I think the point that you make to and sort of this just do it. The thing that we all tend to get stuck on sometimes when we have an idea: Is it big enough? Will enough people care? Do you care? Do you think it's big enough? Big or small, give it a shot. We're in a world where you actually don't get judged if you fail. And so, you're the only one judging yourself. And so just roll with it. Evan Shapiro (26:36) And so we're getting a lot of questions, because I do want to pivot from necessarily the entrepreneurial aspect of this, because not everybody wants to start their own business, right? So that's crucial. Second of all, you know, what do you do? To a certain extent, you have to see, First of all, you have to treat your career like a job. Stop treating your job as a career and start treating your career as a job. Wake up every day and marketing yourself is I call it being CEO of your own shit. You have to be your own CMO. You know, treat the entire workplace environment as a cocktail party. Don't stand in a corner against the wall sipping your drink. Force yourself to go out there and you know, conversation start. Even if it doesn't feel natural to you, these are the table stakes for a fruitful career. And this is whether you're just graduating from college. Or your or your mid or late career. I challenge my college students to make their LinkedIn the most interesting place anyone can make it so that people want to talk to you. You know, that's where that's the front door of the rest of your career. But and I I want to throw this out to you and I'll start myself. Whether or not you want to be an entrepreneur or you want to find a new job, what are the habits that you have? So we've gotten a couple of questions of how do you transition to something else? Or there was another question from Antonio about how do you know whether this moment of disruption is permanent or it's just kind of a passing trend. And so I'm gonna ask you all to answer this. I'll go first. What are the habits that you have that keep you ahead of the curve? Marion, you're kind of professionally ahead of the curve. Tony, same thing. Ami, you really kind of have invented a whole new voice for yourself out there in the marketplace from a creative standpoint. So, what are the habits that you employ on a day-to-day basis that keep you from getting surprised, that keep you interested, that keep you knowing more about yourself and the world around you than the rest of the competition? I'll start on this. the way that I've been able to kind of get into the predictions market as far as media goes, and the way that I've been able to constantly pivot, and I wrote about this on my Substack yesterday, is research. You have to figure out what your learning feed is. Wake up stupid every day. Try to learn something new about something new every day. Take the big data of it all, which is a kind of news feed about the industry, and by the way, about sectors that you're not in. So that you're constantly being fed new things. There's this wave of AI happening right now. A lot of it is bullshit, but you don't know that until you wade into it and give it a try yourself. And then there's the small data aspect of it, which is trying to meet someone new every week, trying to have a conversation about stuff that you've never had before every single week of your life. That's gonna educate you about the world around you. It's also gonna help you point to new opportunities that you might not have ever thought of. Marion and I, actually, all four of us now are creators in some form or fashion. That was a job description that didn't exist six years ago. Let's be honest. They were called influencers now. Now they're called creators, and they're making some of the most popular movies in the world. 3.5 million new businesses were started in the first half of 2026 just in the United States. And so there is a ton of opportunity out there for folks, but you really do need to kind of make looking and learning part of your daily habits. Tony, what are your daily habits that that keep you kind of alit and learning and interested and you know find discovering new things? Tony Goncalves (30:21) So Evan, many, many years ago at a town hall at DirecTV, somebody asked me that question, right? How do you stay fresh? You know, how do you stay on top of it? You know, the perception was that I was on top of it. Awesome, mission accomplished. And like management got really pissed off with my answer. And this was like, you know, when cord-cutting was a bad word. And I said, do yourself a favor. I said, unsubscribe to DirecTV and just become a cord cutter. You will see the future. You will understand what needs there are from a product, technology, business, content standpoint, because you will finally be a consumer. Right? We're blind by you know avoiding what our consumers are doing. And so, I like I live by that. You know, I'm 53 years old. I don't fancy myself as a social digital first human being right now. I embed myself in understanding social algorithms. I put content out there. I tried to hack the LinkedIn algorithm. I failed. It's actually worked against me. But I learned right. My podcast didn't have an Instagram, didn't have a social presence because the publisher didn't kind of didn't allow it. I created one. Right? We just broke 10,000 followers. I know what works. I know what doesn't work. And I'm trying to hack the algorithm. But I'm being a consumer every day. Right? I jump from Claude to Chat GPT because I don't have an assistant. I don't have a head of comms. I don't have a head of marketing. And so tech has become my friend. And it doesn't always work and it pisses me off. But I'm learning. Right. And so I go back. The only thing I, the only core advice I can give anybody on that is to be a consumer, because that's the only way we're going to learn. Evan Shapiro (32:33) That's good one. Ami, what what are the habits? What are your daily routines? Because you don't have a boss, right? Ami Angelowicz (32:39) Yeah. Yeah, I don't have a boss and you know, Tony did steal my answer. You know, part of and I'll just keep it quick. I do think you know, Evan, talked about research, it can be overwhelming, like analysis paralysis can be overwhelming. And so I like to commit to consuming, you know, like Tony was saying, I am a voracious consumer. That's the first thing. It's like, if you want to be in the media industry or you want, know, tech industry, you want to make stuff, you want to create stuff, you have to know about other stuff that's being created. You have to understand what's going on out there. So I would say consume and create. Now, in terms of like, those are things I do regularly. And like Tony said, trying new platforms, trying new things, testing out things. But in terms of like my personal day in getting myself like in the right head space to be my own boss and do all the jobs, as Tony was saying, I walk. So like I do exercise also, but I find walking to be quite meditative, and I do a lot of problem solving. So I do work a walk into my day every day, unless there's like a crazy rainstorm like there's gonna be today. But I do walking, I do meditation, like those are things that I need to get my head right. And just to kind of go back just a little bit, I will say that when you're kind of going through a transition, instead of plowing forward, I do think it's important to take time to do some introspection and really reflect. And I think people miss that step sometimes. And if you miss it, you may just end up in a similar situation where you're unhappy. So really reflect on like, what did I love about my job? What did I, you know, what didn't I like about my job? What am I strongest at? And I think doing that with the support of I've used career coaches, I have a therapist, like I journal, like all of those things. Doing that self-introspection, even if it's uncomfortable and continuing to do that is really important, I think. Evan Shapiro (34:54) Well, Marion, you had a year, I mean, you're European, so you have actual healthcare, so it was a little bit easier for you. But you you did a year of kind of introspection, kind of internal walkabout, and that kind of resulted in in your direction. Is that am I getting that right from memory? Marion Ranchet (35:14) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I did a few things. The journaling, I can relate. I did a lot of that every day. It helped me, you know, get stuff out. So that was super helpful. Then also, you know, looked for outside help and to the point Ami was making, it can be different things. It can be, you know, people you look up to, it can be coaches, it can be a therapist. I also joined a women's group who at this point wanted to be entrepreneurs, but you know, I'm sure there's a lot of places like that with women and men who are looking for, you know, what's the next career move. So like avoiding isolation would be my big thing because you really end up in your head and it it's quite rough. The other thing is that we're really not nice and patient with ourselves. It's kind of crazy. And we so we need to be that, right? And I don't set myself big, lofty goals because then I'm, you know, paralyzed and don't know what to do next. So, my thing is small, tiny goals. And there's days where, you know, at the top of the morning, I'm freaking out. I'm like, I'm not this is not gonna work out. I'm not gonna get through this. And then the only thing that centers me, I feel like a yoga teacher, but is you know, again, focus on okay, what's on my plate today? You know, what can I do today? Or when things don't go my way, I go to the movies at 2 p.m. Okay, not something people in corporate could do. But you know, how how about kind of changing and and switching, you know, how you feel a bit, instead of getting stuck in your head and just really being nasty with yourself. Evan Shapiro (36:54) Yeah, I think I mean we all go to the gym, or many of us have, go to have trainers or we go to we spend money on the gym or we spend money on kind of like new computers and new technology, but a lot of us do not spend that time on ourselves, on our in our inside our own head, digging into who we are. The other part is, you know, to your point of making specific goals for yourself, those goals can always change, but having them in place really does make making choices much easier. I go through what I call a summer skin shedding process. Every summer I just basically try to shed 100% of my skin and start over from scratch. Even if I look exactly like I did in June by September, we have a whole new point of view, and we're either renewing what we did or we're, you know, going in a new direction. The other component to this, and this is something I find very remarkable, is most people I ask, because I get I do take meetings with people on this. I don't do it coaching professionally, but I offer it kind of semiprofessionally. I ask people, what are your top three highest priorities right now. And making money can be number one if that's what it is. Admit that to yourself. But what are they? Someone said, you know, I'm I just went back to work and I'm finding it difficult having a job every day after having been out on my own. Like that, that then maybe going back to work at someone else's employment is not for you if that was priority for you. So really digging into you know who what's inside your own head, what's what's utmost important to you right now. And agreeing, these are the three most important things to me right now: freedom, the ability to work from home, spending more time with my kids, or making more money and having health insurance. If those are your priorities, great. It just helps you align what is kind of the most important next step for you. there's someone who put in the questions in question, well, if you want to really build something, but you're not really great at social media, how do you balance that time between those two inputs. And you know, finding an intern who's gonna work for free is one way, you know, is a good way to kind of force yourself to get out on social media. But no problem higher if you have the money. Ami Angelowicz (39:12) Or hire a consultant, you know, if you have the money or, you know, or you can ask for advice from someone also who is great at it. Tony Goncalves (39:20) People want to, people want to help, right? So so reach out and ask, right? Like there's always that conversation. Like I have a I call it my daily dose of LHT, right? Which is I write lists because I'm a very disorganized human and so I gotta force myself. Humans, human interaction really, really, really matters. And people hate saying no. And so just you just have to ask. And the last and the T is technology, right? You use tech to sort of fill in the gaps and also to learn. And so ask. You may not have money, right, to invest in a consultant, but I'm sure Ami will take a call and be like, Hey, let me let me break it down. I'll take a call. I'm not a social media expert, but Ami Angelowicz (40:04) Yeah. No, I will, I'll totally take a call and give some off the cuff advice. And also like some things are worth investing in and worth outsourcing because you're like, you know, this isn't the thing that I do well, you know, I do this thing well. And when you know what you do well, you know, eventually, you know what you can outsource to either to technology, to an intern, to, you know, somebody you hired to help or ask for help. Yeah. Marion Ranchet (40:31) I think yeah, one thing about not being good at social media, there's two things in there. Perhaps you don't like social media on its own. And I'm I'm like that. Evan Shapiro (40:40) Fair, fair. Marion Ranchet (40:42) My only my only exception is LinkedIn, which is my only social media. Evan Shapiro (40:45) That's right. You're not on Instagram or anything else. Marion Ranchet (40:47) No, I'm not I'm on nothing else. So maybe you don't like it, but it but but unfortunately today, whether you want to be an entrepreneur, be known for something, get a new job, you need to be on social in some shape or form. I don't think you have a choice. Then when you say you're not good at it, I think this is typically what you go through when you're on your own and things are tough. In the end, I think none of us on this pod knew anything about it. We had to learn. And the one thing that I did that year, you know, that event said I used to think things over, is you know, I was on garden leave, so I could not speak up. So, what I did for a year is I was lurking. And I was, you know, following people who were doing that. And I have to say, there's a lot of free advice on LinkedIn. Like some people are gurus at this. And, you know, I I learn from these guys. Then there's a moment in time where it's like, you know, these are the few things I want to talk about, my content pillars. I'm not so organized that I know exactly when to tap in each, but you know. And then you do, you know, one day and you know, one step at a time. This can be learned and I think this is something that you need to work on. So I would say take an hour, you know, every day, every week and improve this one thing somehow. Evan Shapiro (42:08) That's and that's that learning feed that I was talking about. Like build a feed for yourself that's educating yourself. We've got four really good feeds on this on this live stream right here. Sean Atkins, who runs Dhar Mann Studios, a creator platform. This is a guy who transitioned from major executive roles in traditional media into the creator economy very elegantly. Joe Redfern, Emily Horgan. There's a ton of really inspirational, good people who can educate you. Someone asked about daily metrics. Stacy asked about daily metrics. I think the kind of confusing thing is like it's no longer about building scale. The affinity economy, which I write about a lot, is just igniting a very tiny cult. I imagine everybody watching this live stream has a couple hundred, if not more, connections on LinkedIn. Probably most of them have close to a thousand. Focus on them, just focus on your install audience, your total addressable audience right now. Ami Angelowicz (43:04) Also as a social media professional, I will say that the algorithm changes constantly and the metrics that are important do change constantly. And I would say the thing that's most important right now is engagement. So, if one engaged follower, one engaged person that you're interacting with is worth so much more than like 50,000 followers who never engage with your content. So, it's really about quality over quantity even like Adam Osari on Instagram was saying that you know, it's about engagement So so anyways, as a social media professional I will say, you know, yes Look at the metrics to get feedback on what's working and what's not working, but I will say that those are always changing. So think about how you want to put yourself out there first and who you want to Engage with and who you want to engage back with your content. Evan Shapiro(43:59) But I think the key is like you have a community already, ignite them, tell a story to them about you that gets them excited. And one engaged follower turns into two and two turns in, it's like that old shampoo commercial. Two turns into four, four turns into eight. And if you hyperserve your own community, your own community will turn around and hyperserve you as well. There's let me just look through let's go around the horn and I'll look through the questions to see if there's anything we want to part with. But what's your parting shot here in the last two minutes? let's start with you, Tony. What what would be if someone's looking for a job or wants to start their own thing, what would be your one big piece of advice to do tomorrow? Tony Goncalves (44:43) Yeah. So Evan, you talked about asking people what their three priorities are. That's very aligned with my version of understand what you're optimizing for. Like literally sit down, ask yourself, push yourself. Are you optimizing for freedom? Are you optimizing for money? Are you optimizing for title? As you get clearer on that, your narrative becomes clearer. And you're able to then apply yourself towards it. It's like putting noise canceling headphones on, right? Like all the BS kind of goes. I didn't want to go to ATT when ATT bought DirecTV. It changed my life. How did I get there? I said, this is not going to be a job, it's going to be platform. I'm going to treat it as a platform. There's capital, there's support. There's a desire to do something meaningful in an industry that hasn't wanted to change forever. I don't know where it's going to lead, but I'm going to treat it as a platform. And so that's what I optimized for, you know, at the end of the day. And I think that that is the one thing, whether you're looking for something or you're in a role right now or in a company right now, and you have that misalignment burnout, you feel stuck. Spend some time trying to understand what you're optimizing for and put it on paper and put it on a freaking sticky note and put it on your monitor. Because when when things get tough, you can go back to something that's written. Evan Shapiro (46:14) To your North Star. Ami, what's your one big piece of advice? But something someone could do tomorrow. Ami Angelowicz (46:21) Yeah, I mean, I guess this is more conceptual, but in addition to what Tony said about getting that clarity about what you like, what you don't like, what you're good at, what skills you want to carry into your next role, I would say that, you know, this was something huge I had to get over was just give yourself permission to, you're not going to be perfect when you start and it's going to evolve. So I think that's the biggest thing you could do is just give yourself permission to start, you know, incorporate the company, start the job search, you know, like just start and know that things are going to evolve and change and allow yourself to evolve and change as you go along. So, I think a lot of people, yeah, but I think Evan Shapiro (47:04) Don't don't don't let perfection don't let perfection be the enemy of good enough for today. Yeah. Ami Angelowicz (47:09) Totally and I think people also get tripped up on like well, I don't know exactly what my business would be I don't know exactly what job I want next and that keeps them stuck. So I think it's you know, having the willingness to know you're going to learn along the way I think that's really important. Evan Shapiro (47:26) I think there's this thing, like people feel uncomfortable and they think they're alone. The whole fucking world is uncomfortable right now. So, if you're not comfortable, welcome to the club. Exactly. Ami Angelowicz (47:37) Yeah. And you're not going to have all the answers and you're not going to have the perfect business plan and you're not going to have the perfect job-hunting plan, but that's okay. You have to start anyway. That's my piece of advice. not, it's a little bit esoteric, but do it. And you don't have to commit forever. You don't have to commit forever. Like, you don't have to say, isn't the rest of my life. Change your mind in three months. Commit to it for three months. Commit to it for one week. You know, see how it goes. Anyway, sorry. Evan Shapiro (48:07) Marion, what would be your one takeaway? Marion Ranchet(48:10) Mine would be, it sounds silly, but to invest in yourself and it's both in time and money. So I know it's hard to invest money when perhaps you've been laid off, you're in between jobs, etc. But you know, just taking a subset of that. I mean, the first year, you know, I started, I, you know, paid to get a pass to MIPCOM and the plane and the hotel, and we know it's expensive. Evan Shapiro (48:34) That's where we first had our first conversation. Marion Ranchet (48:36) Yeah, that's one of the first times we met, right? And I've heard a few people this week have been, you know, exchanging with saying, but you know, it's hard for me to, you know, put that money because I'm not making money and I get it, but you do have to take a bit of a chance and that could be investing in a program, investing in a coach, investing in a trip, because nothing will come, you know, your way. So, you won't get on a panel or meet XYZ new people if you're not there in the first place and you're just home and, you know, just interacting remotely on LinkedIn and everything. So get out there and invest some money. It doesn't have to be a lot in yourself. Evan Shapiro (49:16) Yeah, and I think that is the great way to takeaway: is invest in yourself. I think money at some point, skin in the game, publishing, a little bit of risk. the whole, as I said, the whole world is uncomfortable right now. And so, if you're uncomfortable, you're not alone in any way, shape, or form. As someone said in the in the comments here, there's a ton of people on LinkedIn who are willing to help. And if they're not willing to help and they don't get back to you, they're an asshole. They weren't worth your time in the first place. But so take that chance. Make that reach out. Ping one of us. Ping Michael Smith, who just great, a great he just was quoting the shampoo commercial that I was doing. He's a great example of that. He is a great personal coach, unprofessionally to people. So, like, reach out, take that risk, put your neck out on the line, put your skin in the game, both either financially or personally, and take that first big step. Don't let fear of finding out be the thing that stops you. Tony, Ami, thank you so much for taking this time out of your day to do this. We really appreciate it. Marion, always great seeing you. This is our last podcast. We have we're dropping two more podcasts over the next two weeks, but this is our last recording of the season. We're, I think, 80 episodes in at this point, or some crazy number like that. So, and we had a couple hundred people on this live stream. So, thank you all for showing up to this. Clearly, this is a topic that's on everybody's minds. We will be back and doing this again in the fall. Marion, great to see you. Marion Ranchet (50:54) Great to see you too. Evan Shapiro (50:55) That is Marion Ranchet. Marion Ranchet (50:57) And that is Evan Shapiro. Evan Shapiro(51:00) This has been the Media Odyssey Podcast Live. Thanks so much. We'll see you soon.