Latest / Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood / 66. Catherine Eddowes - The Penultimate Victim

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66. Catherine Eddowes - The Penultimate Victim · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

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Speaker 1: You're listening to an Airwave media podcast. Hi everybody, and
0:20
Speaker 1: welcome to Who Did What Now? The history podcast That's
0:23
Speaker 1: not your history class with me, your host Kitty Charlewood,
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Speaker 1: history harlot and reader of books. Now, before we continue
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Speaker 1: with the show, I must I must provide a disclaimer,
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Speaker 1: which I didn't do I think the last episode, but
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Speaker 1: here it is again, I, as a human, as a person,
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Speaker 1: use colorful language to the point that my boss is
0:45
Speaker 1: incredibly shocked because she has never heard me swear, not once,
0:49
Speaker 1: and she was like, how much self controlled do you have?
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Speaker 1: Apparently quite a lot. Now, So if you love history
0:57
Speaker 1: but don't like cursing, swear, profanities, expletives, etc. Then I'm
1:05
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1:09
Speaker 1: like a fucking sailor, And so if you do have
1:13
Speaker 1: an issue with that, it's best we part ways now
1:18
Speaker 1: and now some housekeeping. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you
1:23
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Speaker 1: create more content. Now I could say it's not for
1:54
Speaker 1: my ego. I mean it's not, but it is a
1:56
Speaker 1: wee bit because I do love hearing nice about me.
2:01
Speaker 1: Speaking of compliments, actually, I had this old video where
2:04
Speaker 1: I talk about lack of communication and relationships is how
2:09
Speaker 1: relationships die, and you can't be surprised when a girl
2:12
Speaker 1: checks out after being like disregarded, you know. Anyway, some
2:18
Speaker 1: dude comments on it with something along the lines of
2:23
Speaker 1: you're like a seven on the British Isles and then
2:27
Speaker 1: a two everywhere else in the world, so no wonder
2:30
Speaker 1: men stop talking to you, or something along those lines.
2:33
Speaker 1: So I make a video response where it's just really
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Speaker 1: cute pictures of me and with like the line sword
2:38
Speaker 1: of Burster bubble, but I'm cured as fuck, and which
2:43
Speaker 1: was just it's just like a clap back to be like, mate, no,
2:48
Speaker 1: I'm adorable, you don't you don't want to mess with me?
2:51
Speaker 1: And I got some hilarious responses like this, girl goes
2:56
Speaker 1: all the way up to eleven, which you know, binal
2:59
Speaker 1: tap And one of my favorites was, you'd be a
3:02
Speaker 1: solid eight here in Australia and we have the Helmsworths,
3:06
Speaker 1: so we grade pretty hard. I was like, I'm framing that,
3:12
Speaker 1: or I'm going to embroider it onto a decorative pillow
3:16
Speaker 1: like we have the Hemsworths. Wait, concrete pretty hard. It's
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Speaker 1: fucking hilarics. But I know what you're thinking. You're thinking
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Speaker 1: what your jibber jabber in fact me, in fact you
3:25
Speaker 1: I will, But first we've got to get our source on.
3:29
Speaker 1: Sources are Anti Social Behavior in Britain by Sarah Picard,
3:34
Speaker 1: The Politics of Alcohol, A History of the drink Question
3:37
Speaker 1: in England by James Nichols. The Workhouse, a social History
3:41
Speaker 1: by Norman Longmatee. The Story of Japan ten plate working
3:45
Speaker 1: and bicycle and galvanizing trades in Wolverhampton by W. H. Jones, Slumming,
3:50
Speaker 1: Sexual and social politics in Victorian London by Seth Coven.
3:55
Speaker 1: Crime and Society in Wolverhampton eighteen fifteen to eighteen sixty
4:00
Speaker 1: by Roger Swift. The Victims of Jack the Ripper by
4:04
Speaker 1: Neil Stubbings, Sheldon Jack, The Ripper, The Definitive Case Book
4:09
Speaker 1: by Richard Whittington, Egan Wayward, Women, Female Offending in Victorian
4:14
Speaker 1: England by Lucy Williams, May My End a Warning Bee,
4:19
Speaker 1: Catherine Arrows and Gallow's Literature In the Black Country by
4:22
Speaker 1: Jarrett Kobeck, Wages in Cost of Living in the Victorian
4:26
Speaker 1: Era by George p Lando and James Skipper. Anything But
4:32
Speaker 1: Your Prayers, Victims and Witnesses on the Night of the
4:36
Speaker 1: Double Event by Antonio Serroney and Jane Corehum, The Five
4:42
Speaker 1: by Halley Rubinhold, and of course her old friends Biography
4:46
Speaker 1: dot com and History dot Com. I use it in
4:49
Speaker 1: comfortably good. Then let's begin. So Catherine Edrows. She's very,
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Speaker 1: very interesting because she is so different and to you know,
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Speaker 1: the women we have met thus far, so at least
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Speaker 1: with the other three canonical victims, they have been somewhat
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Speaker 1: in line at some point with you know, the expected
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Speaker 1: respectability of Victorian society. They have fallen in line, and
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Speaker 1: then they've sort of deviated from that. Whereas Catherine never
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Speaker 1: really seemed to be on the track anyway. She always
5:34
Speaker 1: seemed to be going a different course. In what's really
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Speaker 1: fascinating is her life and the way that she lived it.
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Speaker 1: It shows a very very different scenario to again what
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Speaker 1: we've seen so far with these women, and that their
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Speaker 1: life experiences in what they went through as humans is
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Speaker 1: just astounding and not to be controversial, but I am
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Speaker 1: convinced that Catherine Arrows is actually the final victim of
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Speaker 1: the serial killer known as Jack the Ripper, or at
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Speaker 1: least the final victim in England. But more on that later.
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Speaker 1: But let's not get ahead of ourselves. We should probably
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Speaker 1: start at the beginning. Catherine Arrows was born on the
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Speaker 1: fourteenth of April eighteen forty two in Graisley Green and Woverhampton,
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Speaker 1: to George and Catherine Arrows and Catherine Edrows Junior. She
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Speaker 1: didn't really lack for siblings cause she's number six, okay,
6:37
Speaker 1: which isn't surprising because this is Victorian London and contraception
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Speaker 1: is created by b Elzibub himself, so you know, keep
6:46
Speaker 1: forcing women to go through you know, terrible pregnancies and
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Speaker 1: horrific childbirth, you know, which which was you know, for centuries,
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Speaker 1: one of the leading causes of death of women. But anyway,
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Speaker 1: so George Arrows, he's a tin plate worker. He is
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Speaker 1: a fully skilled, trained qualified He did the whole seven
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Speaker 1: year apprenticeship. He was from a line of tin plate
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Speaker 1: workers and this went into everything from like kettles to
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Speaker 1: trays to other things involving tin that I cannot recall
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Speaker 1: off the top of my head at this moment. But yeah,
7:22
Speaker 1: so tin was very very important and George, George was
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Speaker 1: a decent fellow because he believed in fair wages for
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Speaker 1: fair work, and he was part of a union, a
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Speaker 1: union letter strike and well, needless to say, the tin
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Speaker 1: bosses and his way tin Crown William wasn't too happy
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Speaker 1: with the whole striking scenario and decided to ensure that
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Speaker 1: George was punished. So he ends up being well one
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Speaker 1: sent to jail to do like hard labor for sar
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Speaker 1: several months. I think it's several months. I'm fairly certain
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Speaker 1: it's several months. But anyway, that and he gets blackballed
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Speaker 1: in Wolverhampton. So he even though it is a very
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Speaker 1: incredibly skilled tin plate worker, he can't get a job
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Speaker 1: in his area. So him, the wife and the six
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Speaker 1: kids get on a boat and sail down too London,
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Speaker 1: far enough away that the reaches of you know, the
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Speaker 1: tinplate king ain't going to get him. And also in
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Speaker 1: an area where him being so highly skilled is going
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Speaker 1: to be a great benefit because he's a skilled laborer,
8:41
Speaker 1: you know, he'll make more money. Unfortunately, because of the
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Speaker 1: family size, it's going to be a little bit less so.
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Speaker 1: And so at this point Catherine is only less than
8:57
Speaker 1: two years old, and so London is beast going to
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Speaker 1: be the home that she knows her older siblings are
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Speaker 1: going to remember Wolverhampton. She is not so because their
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Speaker 1: family keeps growing until the point of well, her mum
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Speaker 1: gives birth to twelve kids in total, but only ten
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Speaker 1: of those children survive. Whatich being the Victorian era, pretty
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Speaker 1: good odds. Actually, that's doing pretty well. But so there's
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Speaker 1: ten kids, and yet George is this highly skilled ten
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Speaker 1: plate worker. He's earning a really decent wage. Unfortunately, because
9:43
Speaker 1: there are so many mouths to feed, that wage is
9:46
Speaker 1: spread very very thin, very thin, meaning that by the
9:52
Speaker 1: time kid number ten is on the scene, many of
9:55
Speaker 1: the family are going to be quite aware of what
9:58
Speaker 1: it's like to go to sleep with a less than
10:00
Speaker 1: filled stomach. Now, we chatted about Victorian society before, and
10:05
Speaker 1: a lot of the times, older children would be expected
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Speaker 1: to help take care of the younger children, especially in
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Speaker 1: a larger family. Now by the time Catherine is sixth though,
10:18
Speaker 1: she would have had like basic household chores, you know,
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Speaker 1: because childhood itself was a very it's a very vague
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Speaker 1: and short thing, especially for working class children in you know,
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Speaker 1: the Victorian era, and so something there must have been
10:37
Speaker 1: something special in her because she gets sent to this school,
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Speaker 1: the Dowgate School, which is basically exists to try and
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Speaker 1: give children sort of a helping hand out of poverty
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Speaker 1: and of course mold and create the right kind of
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Speaker 1: working class person, to instill morals in them and to
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Speaker 1: keep them away from the vices of you know, the
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Speaker 1: street or home or whatever they think is going on there.
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Speaker 1: But also to try and you know, get these people
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Speaker 1: into positions like clerks and banks, engineering, architect services. Oh,
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Speaker 1: you know, the kind of stuff for boys, but for
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Speaker 1: girls it's kind of domestic service. There, just lots and
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Speaker 1: lots of domestic service. Nothing really that great. But it
11:30
Speaker 1: did mean that she could read and write. And for
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Speaker 1: whatever reason George and Catherine they picked little Katherine. Now,
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Speaker 1: it could have been that she was the right age
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Speaker 1: to start, and it was just lucky, or it could
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Speaker 1: have been there was just something special about her maybe,
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Speaker 1: or she was really annoying and they wanted her out
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Speaker 1: the house. I don't know. There are reason parents push
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Speaker 1: kids into things, it's all I'm saying. Or she was
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Speaker 1: perceived as annoying for them. But anyway, she goes to
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Speaker 1: the school, things are going all right because there's no
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Speaker 1: information of her like acting out or being away horse
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Speaker 1: or doing incredibly well. So maybe she was just average
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Speaker 1: and that's all right, you know. But when she's there,
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Speaker 1: she learns to read and write, and she learns music
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Speaker 1: because music is food for the soul, and they probably
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Speaker 1: thought it was good for them spiritually or something probably,
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Speaker 1: But she learns to sing and she learns music, and
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Speaker 1: like also, I don't think she's a we arse because
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Speaker 1: so far everyone describes her as kind of like happy
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Speaker 1: and jolly and just kind of just kind of nice. Now,
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Speaker 1: things are going all right, at the very least, they
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Speaker 1: are doing all right for Catherine. But in eighteen fifty five,
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Speaker 1: when she's ten years old, her forty two year old
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Speaker 1: mother dies from consumption or as we'd know it, tuberculosis,
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Speaker 1: the same thing that Annie Chapman's mother died from because
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Speaker 1: you know, was making the rounds, leaving George to support
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Speaker 1: and raise the rest of his family, or at least,
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Speaker 1: you know, the ones that haven't left and got married.
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Speaker 1: So Emma, the eldest sister, she'd come back to nurse
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Speaker 1: the mother for a while and to try and take
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Speaker 1: care of the household. But this didn't last too long
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Speaker 1: because two years after this, George also dies, but not
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Speaker 1: before walking his daughter Elizabeth, who I think is the
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Speaker 1: second oldest up the aisle, so there was some niceness there.
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Speaker 1: He was helped so that he could do the walk,
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Speaker 1: but in eighteen fifty seven he dies. Emma has to
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Speaker 1: go into full time employment or else she's not going
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Speaker 1: to survive. Her sister Elizabeth has married. Then there's Harriet
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Speaker 1: had settled down as well, so they're all kind assorted.
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Speaker 1: Their brother, Alfred, he was twenty three, but he had
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Speaker 1: some additional needs and he was also epileptic, so taking
14:23
Speaker 1: care of him was one of their priorities, as was
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Speaker 1: what to do with Catherine, who was fifteen at this point,
14:31
Speaker 1: and they realized they can't take her in or the
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Speaker 1: rest of the children for that matter, so what they
14:37
Speaker 1: do is. They send Katherine up to Wolverhampton to live
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Speaker 1: with an aunt and uncle. So she goes up to Wolverhampton.
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Speaker 1: The older siblings are all settling down or getting to work.
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Speaker 1: Alfred and the four young and the youngins well, they
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Speaker 1: get sent to the workhouse, so to George, Sarah, Ann
15:02
Speaker 1: and Mary. Not that long after their father's you know death,
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Speaker 1: They get sent to the workhouse, and Catherine leaves everything
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Speaker 1: she's ever known and heads up to Wolverhampton in family
15:18
Speaker 1: that she doesn't actually know. So yeah, she ends up
15:21
Speaker 1: in Wolverhampton. They send her on a train. At least
15:24
Speaker 1: she didn't have to do the boat, so took her
15:27
Speaker 1: less time to get there. So she gets there and
15:31
Speaker 1: you know, she's lost both her parents, you know, her
15:33
Speaker 1: family are all either settling down or being chucked into
15:38
Speaker 1: a workhouse. Just super fucking fun. But of course, losing
15:42
Speaker 1: all of your family and being ripped to a place
15:45
Speaker 1: that you don't even know is no excuse for you
15:48
Speaker 1: not to be you know, paying your own way and
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Speaker 1: having a job. So yeah, she gets sent out to
15:55
Speaker 1: you know, the tinplate factories and gets a job as
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Speaker 1: a scourer and she's you know, all day like seven
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Speaker 1: am to seven pm. You know. When she's not there,
16:04
Speaker 1: she's expected to do domestic duties at home, but the
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Speaker 1: tin workers pub is just a week a couple doors down,
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Speaker 1: so she usually kind of tries to spend as much
16:17
Speaker 1: time there instead of at home because then there's less
16:20
Speaker 1: shit for her to do. And for whatever reason, one day,
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Speaker 1: when she's working in the tin factory, she decides it's
16:29
Speaker 1: going to be a super great idea to try and
16:31
Speaker 1: neck some stuff. Had she done it before? How was
16:35
Speaker 1: this the first time? You know? Was this just the
16:37
Speaker 1: first time she was caught? Hymns to say. All we
16:41
Speaker 1: know is that she gets caught and she gets fired,
16:45
Speaker 1: which is probably for the best because the other option
16:50
Speaker 1: was to be brought before the magistrate. So it was
16:53
Speaker 1: either going to be go to court or just be
16:56
Speaker 1: dismissed from her position. And see her aunt and uncle,
17:00
Speaker 1: they are good, upstanding members of the public and so
17:04
Speaker 1: they are absolutely pissed at this, and so they make
17:08
Speaker 1: sure that she doesn't forget the fact that she stole,
17:12
Speaker 1: which is a sin. And having to deal with this,
17:16
Speaker 1: you know, strict home and this beratment she's getting, she
17:21
Speaker 1: decides at nineteen, fuck this for a game of soldiers,
17:25
Speaker 1: packs up her stuff and bumpers off to another uncle's house.
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Speaker 1: So it's something like fourteen miles south of Overhampton. Birmingham
17:35
Speaker 1: is only fourteen miles south. Yeah, no, I suck at geography.
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Speaker 1: And she goes to stay with her uncle Tom Arrows,
17:43
Speaker 1: who by day was a shoemaker and by night was
17:48
Speaker 1: a bare knuckle boxer. So there she stays with her
17:51
Speaker 1: uncle Tom and aunt Rosanna, and she needs to get
17:55
Speaker 1: a job. Luckily, he's relatively well known. He knows a
17:59
Speaker 1: few people can get her gig, and it does. She's
18:03
Speaker 1: not a scour anymore though, she's a polisher, polish in
18:06
Speaker 1: fancy trays, which does seem a lot better than you know,
18:10
Speaker 1: standing over acid baths. So this lasts for four months
18:15
Speaker 1: and she buckers off back to Overhampton again, but to
18:18
Speaker 1: stay with her granny. And she does this and becomes
18:22
Speaker 1: a template stamper, so like just constantly in the tin,
18:26
Speaker 1: cannot escape the tin. So somewhere during this, whether it
18:31
Speaker 1: was in Birmingham or Woverhampton, she meets Thomas Conway. So
18:37
Speaker 1: Conway was originally from Mayo. He was in the Army
18:41
Speaker 1: County Mail in Ireland, i should say. And he was
18:43
Speaker 1: in like the eighteenth Regiment, Irish Regiment of the British
18:46
Speaker 1: Army or something like that. He was in the army.
18:50
Speaker 1: He had like a bad heart and a weak chest,
18:55
Speaker 1: and he caught some kind of thing in India, and
18:59
Speaker 1: that's what happened. When you colonize places, you get diseases
19:02
Speaker 1: that you just can't handle. So don't do that, yees.
19:07
Speaker 1: So he is medically in fit to rejoin the army,
19:12
Speaker 1: and he's got an army pension, and he's also a chapman,
19:18
Speaker 1: so he sells well chat books, which are like he's
19:23
Speaker 1: printed books of like ballads and poems and all this stuff.
19:27
Speaker 1: And also he would sell like ribbons and thimbles and
19:30
Speaker 1: you know, just like sell stuff and tell stories really,
19:34
Speaker 1: you know. And so by eighteen sixty two, her family
19:39
Speaker 1: they don't like Conway. They don't think he's good for
19:43
Speaker 1: her in any way. They think he's a bit of
19:45
Speaker 1: a cad and he's Irish as well, so that's obviously
19:47
Speaker 1: an issue for them. They're not gonna say it, but
19:50
Speaker 1: he is. And they're like, he can't support you. He's
19:53
Speaker 1: only got like a seven pence like pension. Ooh, and
20:00
Speaker 1: they're like, it's him or us, and Kate goes, oh
20:05
Speaker 1: my color Kate. Now Catherine goes him, and so she
20:10
Speaker 1: moves into a lodging house with him, and next thing
20:13
Speaker 1: you know, she's pregnant. And so this couple, they don't
20:17
Speaker 1: really stay long in Woverhampton, right, because he's a chapman.
20:21
Speaker 1: He's out selling his chat books and selling all this stuff,
20:25
Speaker 1: so it's up to him to roam the English countryside
20:29
Speaker 1: to find places to sell his wares. And Catherine, she thinks,
20:35
Speaker 1: this is a much better way of life than I'm
20:38
Speaker 1: currently living. Like it's totally against you know, the norms.
20:43
Speaker 1: They're not married, they don't get married. You know, they're
20:47
Speaker 1: having a kid. And instead of facing the drudgery of
20:53
Speaker 1: factory work, of being in these blackened cities and being
20:59
Speaker 1: contru rained and being ruled over, there would have been
21:05
Speaker 1: a real sense of freedom in this, a real opportunity
21:08
Speaker 1: for her, something for her to do and live and
21:13
Speaker 1: to fucking enjoy her life. And so off they go.
21:17
Speaker 1: And she's really handy to have because she can sing, remember,
21:21
Speaker 1: she can write her own ballads. And he's illiterate, but
21:26
Speaker 1: she isn't, so she can write tales, she can press stories.
21:32
Speaker 1: You know, she would go and sing on town squares
21:37
Speaker 1: and they would make this. They were really good team, really,
21:41
Speaker 1: because he was charming and he's this Irish lilt and
21:46
Speaker 1: he's clearly a good salesman because he would not be
21:48
Speaker 1: alive if that was the case. You know, you can't,
21:52
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have lasted that long. And she's just boosting business.
21:58
Speaker 1: And it's not like great money, it's not super money,
22:02
Speaker 1: but it's enough to live on. And again it gives
22:07
Speaker 1: her the freedom that she was missing. But of course
22:11
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty three yearrolls around. They've been doing this for
22:16
Speaker 1: nearly a year, and she's presenting herself at the Great
22:21
Speaker 1: Yarmouth workhouse, like at the infirmary doors. So for working
22:26
Speaker 1: class women, a lot of them, especially those who weren't
22:29
Speaker 1: who did not have a fixed abode, they would normally
22:32
Speaker 1: go to workhouses to give birth. However, her treatment there
22:37
Speaker 1: would depend on how she was viewed. So when she
22:41
Speaker 1: gets there, she tells them her name is Catherine Conway.
22:44
Speaker 1: You know, she's married, and Conway she's not. She's not
22:50
Speaker 1: married to Conway at all, not even a wee bit.
22:53
Speaker 1: But she says she's married, and they're like, okay, that
22:55
Speaker 1: seems good enough. You seem respectable enough. You can have
22:59
Speaker 1: your baby here. Even though there's no wedding ring on her.
23:03
Speaker 1: You know, they could always make the excuse of perhaps,
23:07
Speaker 1: you know, or we had to sell it because we
23:09
Speaker 1: were hungry or whatever. And her daughter Annie is born.
23:14
Speaker 1: So oh, one thing I should say about Catherine Drows
23:17
Speaker 1: is she has a tattoo. Now. Having a tattoo now,
23:23
Speaker 1: even for some woman who's seen sort of outrageous. But
23:28
Speaker 1: back in the Victorian era, like it was not a
23:31
Speaker 1: done thing. Women didn't get tattoos unless you were like
23:34
Speaker 1: in a side show. You know. Men got tattoos to
23:38
Speaker 1: show their manliness, to show the lives they lived, like
23:40
Speaker 1: if they were sailors and shit. But women did not
23:44
Speaker 1: get tattoos. But she had a tea and a sea
23:50
Speaker 1: tattooed on her arm. So she had a little Thomas
23:54
Speaker 1: Conway tattoo, which was like their way of being, you know,
23:59
Speaker 1: condi as opposed to like a wedding band. But again
24:03
Speaker 1: not actually married. They're just cohabitating and again very frowned
24:08
Speaker 1: upon in Victorian society. But yes, so the thing is
24:13
Speaker 1: they would have acted as if they were husband and wife.
24:15
Speaker 1: They would have just told people their were husband and wife,
24:18
Speaker 1: you know, they would act like they were married. So
24:21
Speaker 1: little Annie is born and they don't stop their nomadic ways.
24:26
Speaker 1: They continue with this. So they do this for what
24:29
Speaker 1: another year or so, until they finally end up back
24:33
Speaker 1: in London. So they have a couple more kids, and
24:37
Speaker 1: they've settled in London because they've got to settle somewhere
24:40
Speaker 1: because you cannot travel with that many children. Not then anyway,
24:45
Speaker 1: and this leads to some issues because he's a chapman.
24:50
Speaker 1: You know, he has really really stiff competition in London,
24:56
Speaker 1: like it's not the same as it was, and it's
25:00
Speaker 1: just really tough for him, although he is consistently working
25:05
Speaker 1: or begging, you know, and that's something they're doing. They're
25:08
Speaker 1: either begging or they're singing, or they're trying to sell
25:13
Speaker 1: their tiny wares, like there's always something going on. They're
25:15
Speaker 1: always trying to make money. And you see herself again,
25:23
Speaker 1: like the majority of women that we've discussed so far
25:27
Speaker 1: fond of gin. Who isn't fond of gin? They used
25:31
Speaker 1: to sell it by the fucking pint. By the pint.
25:34
Speaker 1: Imagine drinking a pint of gin. That just feels dangerous
25:39
Speaker 1: by any stretch of the imagination. Ah, were you drinking
25:42
Speaker 1: a pint of gin? A pint of gin? Oh yeah,
25:45
Speaker 1: that's that's super cooty. You just keep doing that. But
25:49
Speaker 1: so she would drink, and well, how do I put this?
25:55
Speaker 1: He would beat her, and it was that this was
26:02
Speaker 1: her fault, you know, she clearly needed to be you know,
26:07
Speaker 1: disciplined or trained or all the other bullshit they used
26:11
Speaker 1: to label like, no, no, she did not deserve to
26:16
Speaker 1: get beaten. She didn't deserve to get hit like. She
26:19
Speaker 1: actually reported him, you know, for beating her, but that
26:26
Speaker 1: didn't last. And it was just kind of expected for
26:30
Speaker 1: her to go home. And they're trying to make ends meet,
26:35
Speaker 1: but it's not quite working because they are struggling. They're
26:41
Speaker 1: really struggling. They don't have enough money, they can't support themselves,
26:46
Speaker 1: they can't support their children, and her youngest dies of
26:52
Speaker 1: malnutrition because they can't afford to feed themselves, let alone her.
27:00
Speaker 1: And by the end of this year, Thomas Conway he
27:04
Speaker 1: decides to set off again to continue the nomadic lifestyle
27:09
Speaker 1: to earn some money, meaning he's left his wife and
27:13
Speaker 1: kids just alone in London with no way to support themselves,
27:19
Speaker 1: and so she has to go stay with her sister
27:21
Speaker 1: Elizabeth for a while. And it is only for a
27:24
Speaker 1: while because you know, on top of everything else, her
27:28
Speaker 1: family they didn't really like Thomas Conway. They also didn't
27:32
Speaker 1: like the fact that, you know, she had tattoos and
27:34
Speaker 1: she wasn't married and she was living a life which
27:37
Speaker 1: was just, i want to say, subversive to the Victorian norm.
27:42
Speaker 1: But they tried, but eventually things just stept working out
27:47
Speaker 1: and she has to go to the workhouse, bringing her
27:52
Speaker 1: seven year old daughter and two year old son, the
27:56
Speaker 1: three of them at the Greenwich Union workhouse, and this
28:01
Speaker 1: becomes very much a pattern for her. So she ends
28:05
Speaker 1: up having to go in the workhouse, you know, quite
28:08
Speaker 1: a lot, because she needs to survive and her children
28:11
Speaker 1: need to survive, and generally she's in there with at
28:16
Speaker 1: least one of her kids, you know, And she even
28:19
Speaker 1: ends up giving birth again in the workhouse, and by
28:23
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy six, when she's been on the swings and
28:26
Speaker 1: roundabouts of the workhouse regime, she is going to give
28:31
Speaker 1: birth to her fourth child. Now at this point, her
28:35
Speaker 1: youngest is three, and he gets to stay with her
28:40
Speaker 1: in her part of the workhouse, but kids over seven
28:43
Speaker 1: they have to be taken to a separate part of
28:45
Speaker 1: the workhouse to be like schooled and stuff. So Annie's thirteen,
28:50
Speaker 1: George I think is seven at that point. Maybe he's eight.
28:54
Speaker 1: But anyway, they get taken away from their mother and
28:58
Speaker 1: they have to go. But at least they're getting, you
29:00
Speaker 1: know something, they're getting an education, and they're getting some food,
29:05
Speaker 1: which is nice. So the reason that she has to
29:08
Speaker 1: keep coming to the workhouse anyway is because she's not
29:12
Speaker 1: eligible for parish funds, Like they don't give support to
29:16
Speaker 1: what they called fallen women, you know, because they were
29:20
Speaker 1: the unworthy poor, you know what I mean. She's seen
29:24
Speaker 1: basically the same as a sex worker because she's unwed,
29:31
Speaker 1: she has children, which is clearly her fault, you know, clearly.
29:39
Speaker 1: But yeah, she's in and out of the workhouse. And yeah,
29:42
Speaker 1: the older kids are taken away, but they do get
29:46
Speaker 1: to have this little like chat once a week, like
29:52
Speaker 1: they get to have visiting hours effectively, and they get
29:55
Speaker 1: to speak to their children, which I mean is I'm
29:58
Speaker 1: going to say, is something that's something, right, That's something
30:02
Speaker 1: And Conway, he was going sort of in and out
30:06
Speaker 1: of their lives because he would leave, he would do
30:09
Speaker 1: his work, he'd do his chapman stuff, and then he'd
30:12
Speaker 1: come back, and so he would be back and forth.
30:15
Speaker 1: But he wasn't, you know, stable, There wasn't a stable income,
30:20
Speaker 1: and he was working to provide for himself, not necessarily
30:23
Speaker 1: his family. So she ends up in and out of
30:27
Speaker 1: like the workhouse, like like seven times in total. Like
30:31
Speaker 1: she's just there so much, and it gets to the
30:35
Speaker 1: point where when he does come back, he just can't
30:39
Speaker 1: handle her. And so he's violent and she's drinking. But
30:46
Speaker 1: is she drinking because he's violent, or is she drinking,
30:52
Speaker 1: you know, to escape everything that's going on in her life,
30:56
Speaker 1: like having to consistently go to the workhouse and they
31:01
Speaker 1: interview when you go in. And these are designed to
31:05
Speaker 1: make you feel bad about yourself. They're designed to bring
31:08
Speaker 1: you down and break your spirit. And I think we
31:11
Speaker 1: discussed this in the first episode. And they are designed
31:16
Speaker 1: to crush you and to layer the guilt upon you,
31:22
Speaker 1: just smother you in it. And so she's had a
31:26
Speaker 1: hard time and the man that is supposed to be
31:31
Speaker 1: caring for her and supporting her, as is the way
31:34
Speaker 1: of the era, is physically assaulting her, and after one
31:41
Speaker 1: particularly nasty fight. I say fight as if you know
31:46
Speaker 1: it was a two way thing. But after an incident,
31:49
Speaker 1: I suppose she takes nine months old Thomas Frederick Frederick
31:55
Speaker 1: and she goes to a casual ward with them. She
31:58
Speaker 1: stays over. She just does that, and then she goes
32:02
Speaker 1: and spends some time with her sisters, like she spends
32:04
Speaker 1: time for Christmas, and they are like shocked because like
32:10
Speaker 1: she's got two black eyes, Like she's clearly been like pubbled,
32:16
Speaker 1: you know, and like most women are, most people who
32:21
Speaker 1: are in domestic abuse relationships, they revolving doors, you know,
32:28
Speaker 1: they end up going back and sometimes because there is
32:31
Speaker 1: nowhere else because the other options are just horrific, like
32:38
Speaker 1: and there's there's so many layers to it that I'm
32:40
Speaker 1: not going to get into it because I don't want
32:43
Speaker 1: to open up some channels in my head and start crying,
32:45
Speaker 1: because let's not do that. But eventually, after again being
32:50
Speaker 1: in and out of the workhouse again, in eighteen seventy nine,
32:55
Speaker 1: Frederick passes away. So she has lost her youngest son,
33:00
Speaker 1: and at some point during this year, she also like
33:05
Speaker 1: takes both of her boys out singing with her and
33:08
Speaker 1: then she makes them deserted in the street where a
33:11
Speaker 1: policeman then takes them to the workhouse until and either
33:15
Speaker 1: oldest sister comes and collects them. By eighteen eighty one,
33:19
Speaker 1: she finally finally leaves Conway like properly done. And when
33:24
Speaker 1: she is finally done, she leaves him and her two
33:28
Speaker 1: youngest children because well, he had all the rights to
33:33
Speaker 1: them anyway, married or not. He had control, he had power.
33:39
Speaker 1: She didn't. And so she finally goes and for the
33:45
Speaker 1: most part she would stay on Flower Indian Street. She
33:48
Speaker 1: would stay in the you know, the doss house is
33:50
Speaker 1: the common lodging houses, and she would get by bit
33:55
Speaker 1: of work, bit of singing, cleaning, sewing. She got work
33:59
Speaker 1: with them Jewish families in the area because Whitechapel at
34:04
Speaker 1: this time was an area of mass immigration, which is
34:09
Speaker 1: why a lot of the Ripper theories we get are
34:12
Speaker 1: they're either entrenched in like misogyny or well anti semitism,
34:19
Speaker 1: like there is so much just nonsense that just spews
34:23
Speaker 1: from hate. And that's why we have all of these
34:27
Speaker 1: preconceived notions. It's why the concept of Jack came about.
34:34
Speaker 1: It's why he went from leather apron to Jackleber, but
34:37
Speaker 1: that's another argument for another day. So by the time
34:41
Speaker 1: she leaves Conway, she's generally in a lodging house, generally
34:49
Speaker 1: flowering Dane Street, because you know, it's the most affordable
34:53
Speaker 1: for her. So she ends up like a year after
34:57
Speaker 1: leaving Conway, she ends up in this relationship. But this dude,
35:00
Speaker 1: John Kelly, and John well, he's he like her, is
35:08
Speaker 1: also a drinker. But are they drinking to numb the
35:12
Speaker 1: pen to escape to chase some you know fun hym's
35:18
Speaker 1: to say. But yes, she is seeing John Kelly and
35:24
Speaker 1: the relationship seems to be kind of I don't know,
35:31
Speaker 1: a symbiotic. Is it the word I'm looking for. It's codependent.
35:35
Speaker 1: You know, they're both relying on each other for survival.
35:40
Speaker 1: And we're gonna say it's Victoria in London. We've discussed
35:42
Speaker 1: this before, Like, she really needs protection as a woman
35:46
Speaker 1: in the best form of protection for her is to
35:49
Speaker 1: be in a relationship with a man. And if she
35:52
Speaker 1: is sharing, you know, a bed with him in a
35:55
Speaker 1: lodging house, it will keep other men away from her.
35:59
Speaker 1: It's a safety blanket. You know. How the romance came about, Well,
36:05
Speaker 1: they met in the lodging house and Flower and Jane Street.
36:09
Speaker 1: They met each other there, they gone along and things
36:12
Speaker 1: just seemed to work out for both of them. Unfortunately,
36:16
Speaker 1: as much as her family weren't kan On Conway, they
36:21
Speaker 1: disliked John Kelly even more because he was. He was
36:26
Speaker 1: an aberration for Victorian London, you know what I mean.
36:29
Speaker 1: He was a drinker, he didn't have a full time job,
36:33
Speaker 1: and he wasn't a grafter really, not like Komae was.
36:36
Speaker 1: Commie was consistently working, but Kelly less so. And it
36:43
Speaker 1: after they meet that she ends up being taken before
36:47
Speaker 1: the Magistrates Court for being drunken disorderly. Now it's reported
36:53
Speaker 1: that she never really drank that much. She didn't generally
36:56
Speaker 1: drink to excess. You know, she wasn't often overfilling her
37:00
Speaker 1: but sometimes sometimes a bit too much gin ginna make
37:08
Speaker 1: makes things less than pleasant for everybody involved. Now, on
37:12
Speaker 1: top of this, right, she's also known for being kind,
37:18
Speaker 1: considerate and compassionate. So if she knew somebody who was
37:23
Speaker 1: like a regular at the lodging house and they didn't
37:25
Speaker 1: have the fourpence or whatever to you know, pay for
37:29
Speaker 1: their bed, she would give. If she had the spare money.
37:33
Speaker 1: She would give them money to cover the bed for them,
37:37
Speaker 1: and she did this more than once. Like eventually she
37:41
Speaker 1: does get a job working sort of in the Jewish community.
37:46
Speaker 1: She's cleaning, she's sewing, she's doing all that kind of
37:50
Speaker 1: stuff and she's getting by. But something her and Kelly
37:54
Speaker 1: also do is seasonal hop picking in Kent. So basically
38:01
Speaker 1: hops needed picked for like beer and the like, So
38:04
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, seasonal workers, they would hit
38:07
Speaker 1: out every season or every year to go and pick
38:11
Speaker 1: the hops that would then be used for beer and
38:15
Speaker 1: bread and all that jazz and generally these summers were,
38:20
Speaker 1: for lack of a better word, fruitful, So it was
38:22
Speaker 1: a decent way for them to earn their cape, really,
38:26
Speaker 1: and that's fair enough. Like you go where the work is,
38:28
Speaker 1: you get it, and you do your best to earn
38:30
Speaker 1: money so that you can survive, like for the rest
38:33
Speaker 1: of the year. You know, on the scraps you're going
38:36
Speaker 1: to get. So they spend their summers in Kent hop picking,
38:42
Speaker 1: and then when they're back in London again, she's sewing, cleaning,
38:46
Speaker 1: selling songs, begging because you know, you do what you
38:52
Speaker 1: have to do. And she's no stranger to sleeping rough either.
38:58
Speaker 1: She's known to sleep in a place called the Shed
39:02
Speaker 1: where it's basically just kind of this wea front room situation,
39:07
Speaker 1: but she's sleeping on you know, alleyways and in sort
39:13
Speaker 1: of nooks and crannies. And she does go to her
39:17
Speaker 1: sister trying to get money, you know, to find somewhere
39:21
Speaker 1: to stay when because she does go through a lot
39:25
Speaker 1: of it. It's not hard when you don't have a
39:29
Speaker 1: steady income to go through money. So she's there, she's
39:34
Speaker 1: with Kelly. They go to their last hop picking summer
39:38
Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty eight and they come back and he
39:43
Speaker 1: ends up staying in Florendine Street and she ends up
39:47
Speaker 1: staying in the casual ward down on my Lend. And
39:51
Speaker 1: when she stays there, you know, she's telling everyone her
39:53
Speaker 1: name is Kay Kelly. So she's gone for all Catherine
40:01
Speaker 1: Conway to Kate Kelly and change is good, I guess.
40:07
Speaker 1: But when she's there, she's explaining, you know, you know,
40:11
Speaker 1: why where where was she? Because you know they ask
40:14
Speaker 1: these kind of questions and she's like, oh, well, I
40:16
Speaker 1: was hot picking, so I was working and now I
40:18
Speaker 1: returned to London and so I need someone to stay
40:22
Speaker 1: fair enough. So he stays there, and she stays in
40:27
Speaker 1: the casual ward for another night. So it's not too
40:30
Speaker 1: long that she's returned from hot picking from Kent, and
40:37
Speaker 1: they're down to their last toppends really and they don't
40:42
Speaker 1: have enough to stay anywhere. So John Kelly pawns his
40:47
Speaker 1: boots so he is barefoot so that he can sleep
40:50
Speaker 1: in the lodging house. And Catherine she heads off to
40:56
Speaker 1: see her daughter. That's her that's her plan. She's heading
40:58
Speaker 1: away to see her daughter, who's like full grown, says Annie,
41:02
Speaker 1: you know, seeing if she can grab a couple pennies
41:05
Speaker 1: off her. And she's supposed to be back by like
41:09
Speaker 1: two o'clock, four o'clock sometime in the afternoon. He's expecting
41:13
Speaker 1: her back because she's like, I'm gonna go get some
41:15
Speaker 1: money and I'll be back because he's just covered the
41:18
Speaker 1: cost of the room, so she's expecting to be back.
41:21
Speaker 1: And about four o'clock that day, Catherine Arrows is found
41:27
Speaker 1: slumped against a wall, absolutely sloshed. The woman is pie eyed,
41:34
Speaker 1: she's drunk, she's absolutely just gin fueled. At this point,
41:42
Speaker 1: if you struck a match next door, it would be
41:43
Speaker 1: like the beacon of Gone Dor Went up right, and
41:47
Speaker 1: she's just not great. People are trying to like help
41:51
Speaker 1: her up. They're worried about her because she's an absolute steak.
41:56
Speaker 1: Whatever happened that day that drove her to drink that much,
42:03
Speaker 1: like to get that drunk, like to go get the money,
42:07
Speaker 1: because she must have got the money, and then to
42:11
Speaker 1: get that hammered, like something must have happened, because there's
42:15
Speaker 1: no way someone suddenly decides to drink themselves into a
42:18
Speaker 1: stupid especially not someone who's used to drinking, you know,
42:23
Speaker 1: and doesn't really get that drunk too often, and they're
42:30
Speaker 1: normally jolly happy. Catherine Rows is less than chirpy at
42:37
Speaker 1: this point. So the group of people they see her,
42:41
Speaker 1: they're they're worried about her, and they summon you know, policemen.
42:45
Speaker 1: And the thing is as well, remember this is the
42:48
Speaker 1: whole Victorian London temperance obsession that you know, the demon
42:52
Speaker 1: drink and all that fucking bullshit, right, and she is, well,
43:01
Speaker 1: she's seen it as either a poor creature or a
43:04
Speaker 1: weak fool. You know, it's you're a bad person if
43:09
Speaker 1: you consume alcohol. That's kind of the morality. No morality
43:14
Speaker 1: for you, No, no, no no, because you had your
43:17
Speaker 1: sniffer of I don't know port or whatever. Well, a
43:21
Speaker 1: sniffer of port is fine, but a pintagin not really.
43:25
Speaker 1: It's one of those class things, you know. But anyway,
43:30
Speaker 1: they try and get her up, she slumps to the
43:32
Speaker 1: ground and it's a struggle. So the police officer comes
43:37
Speaker 1: and she gets put in the drunk tank. That's why
43:41
Speaker 1: it's half here at night. This happens, it's half here
43:43
Speaker 1: at night, so it's still that's she's supposed to be
43:48
Speaker 1: home by four and she's absolutely hammered lying there in
43:52
Speaker 1: the street. So anyway, she gets taken into the clink.
43:55
Speaker 1: She's in the cells, and she gets brought in. They
43:58
Speaker 1: ask her her name. She responds with nothing because you know, sassy,
44:07
Speaker 1: and yeah, she falls asleep, zongs out because she's you know,
44:12
Speaker 1: she's pissed. And a couple hours later, half twelve, the
44:17
Speaker 1: morning of the thirtieth of September, I guess, she wakes
44:22
Speaker 1: up and yeah, she asks when she gets to leave,
44:29
Speaker 1: and they basically tell her she can go once she
44:31
Speaker 1: can take care of herself. So like once she's sober
44:34
Speaker 1: enough to go, and then what happens is she starts
44:39
Speaker 1: singing and she doesn't stop singing. And it takes thirty minutes,
44:45
Speaker 1: thirty minutes of us singing, annoying the jailer, the policeman,
44:49
Speaker 1: whoever's there, and he's just like, okay, fine, you're fine,
44:54
Speaker 1: you can go. You're sober enough to go. I think
44:56
Speaker 1: he was just sick of her, to be honest, he
44:58
Speaker 1: was like, no, I'm done, get out. And so she
45:01
Speaker 1: leaves and as she goes, well, there's a story that
45:04
Speaker 1: she gives her name as Mary Jane Kelly. That is
45:07
Speaker 1: absolute bollocks. She gives her name is nothing like, that's
45:14
Speaker 1: it playing zimbo. She but they know her, they recognize her.
45:19
Speaker 1: That's how it is. So when she toddles out, she
45:24
Speaker 1: doesn't head towards Flower and Dane Street. She heards towards Algate,
45:29
Speaker 1: which is like where there was a prisoner that way.
45:32
Speaker 1: But also it's like we're one of her sisters kind
45:35
Speaker 1: of lives around there. And as she's heading out towards there,
45:42
Speaker 1: I mean, she's not sober, not really, she's not compassmentous,
45:49
Speaker 1: she's definitely still tipsy. And it's pitch black. This is
45:55
Speaker 1: smoggie London with barely a gaslight. You know, you are
46:02
Speaker 1: struggling to move around, and so as she's done many
46:08
Speaker 1: times before, she founds somewhere to sleep, because again, this
46:14
Speaker 1: is a woman who slept in the countryside, in barns
46:19
Speaker 1: and sheds and under the stars. You know, this woman
46:25
Speaker 1: will sleep anywhere, like could sleep on the edge of
46:29
Speaker 1: a razor blade probably, And so she's in mitter square.
46:34
Speaker 1: She positions herself appropriately as one does. And as she
46:41
Speaker 1: rests on the morning of the thirtieth of September, barely
46:47
Speaker 1: half an hour as she has been released from the cells,
46:51
Speaker 1: her life is taken. And like the rest of the
46:55
Speaker 1: victims of Jack the Ripper, she has been murdered in
47:00
Speaker 1: her sleep. And it's really funny to me because so
47:04
Speaker 1: many people have an issue with this that like, there's
47:09
Speaker 1: this weird esteem held up about Jack, right, there's this
47:13
Speaker 1: sort of respect in a weird and creepy way, that
47:17
Speaker 1: he has to be clever, he has to be smart,
47:19
Speaker 1: he has to be like hounding these particular women for
47:22
Speaker 1: a particular reason, as opposed to a cowardly shit of
47:26
Speaker 1: a man who murdered vagrant, homeless women women in their sleep.
47:37
Speaker 1: And the idea that it's not some big conspiracy, that
47:43
Speaker 1: it's not some genius level like hannibal lector just amazing
47:50
Speaker 1: myth of a man, when really it's just a violent
47:57
Speaker 1: arsehole who the week. You know, there's this whole saying
48:05
Speaker 1: it's like, if you pick on the Week, then you're
48:07
Speaker 1: even weaker. And that's why I think Jack the Ripper
48:09
Speaker 1: is they found an easy target and they used it
48:14
Speaker 1: to just mutilate and destroy any semblance of who these
48:22
Speaker 1: women were. Now I don't really like to talk about
48:27
Speaker 1: the actual murder so much because the focus should be
48:31
Speaker 1: on these women. And her body is discovered by a
48:37
Speaker 1: policeman who's like, she wasn't there five minutes ago, I swear,
48:41
Speaker 1: and it's like, or did you not look, or maybe
48:46
Speaker 1: you just didn't pass that direction, or maybe you weren't
48:50
Speaker 1: quite doing the rounds you were supposed to be doing,
48:53
Speaker 1: maybe you were somewhere else, maybe you're covering your ass,
48:57
Speaker 1: were saying, oh, that happened really suddenly, clearly. But it
49:02
Speaker 1: just I don't subscribe to this everybody being honorable scenario
49:10
Speaker 1: just because it doesn't make sense. But anyway, when she
49:17
Speaker 1: passes away, her family, even though they're not the wealthiest
49:23
Speaker 1: of people in the world, they ensure she has a
49:26
Speaker 1: decent send off. See her family. They were not going
49:30
Speaker 1: to let her go into a pauper's grave. It wasn't happening.
49:34
Speaker 1: And the thing is as well, she was well liked.
49:37
Speaker 1: She was known as being jolly and kind, and people
49:40
Speaker 1: knew her from singing and they knew her from being
49:44
Speaker 1: around and because as well, due to the horrific way
49:51
Speaker 1: that she was mutilated, it became a sort of turning
49:59
Speaker 1: point for a lot of people. And you had people
50:04
Speaker 1: lining the streets on the day of her funeral, Like
50:08
Speaker 1: as the morning carriage went through. They paid for a
50:10
Speaker 1: morning carriage. That's not cheap. And like in the morning carriage,
50:15
Speaker 1: you've got John Kelly, You've got I think four of
50:17
Speaker 1: Catherine's sisters and a couple of her nieces. And so
50:22
Speaker 1: the morning coach is following the coffin and there's what
50:25
Speaker 1: I think about five hundred people waiting sort of nearby
50:30
Speaker 1: the City of London Cemetery when she actually gets interred,
50:35
Speaker 1: and then forty three years old, Catherine Edrows is laid
50:42
Speaker 1: to rest, and thus ends our story of Catherine Edrows,
50:51
Speaker 1: who I believe is the last the victim, or at
50:56
Speaker 1: least in the UK, the last English victim of Jack
51:02
Speaker 1: the ripper and I know this is a weird thing
51:04
Speaker 1: to say, but if you liked my retelling of the
51:07
Speaker 1: history of Catherine Edrows, feel free to rate and review
51:12
Speaker 1: five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. It feels weird
51:17
Speaker 1: to promote after that, it really does. Yeah, finish up
51:22
Speaker 1: my news. You can obviously come see me in Kansas
51:28
Speaker 1: for the very last Heartland Pagan Festival. I'm going to
51:32
Speaker 1: be there doing one talk with a Q and A,
51:35
Speaker 1: three workshops and a live podcast recording. It's going to
51:39
Speaker 1: be swell. So there's that the Year's a code for
51:42
Speaker 1: tickets in the description down below. Use code Kerrie twenty
51:46
Speaker 1: three h checkout for a discount. There's also a little
51:50
Speaker 1: link for the Trover trip emailing list, So if you
51:54
Speaker 1: want to join me on my trip to Scotland and
51:58
Speaker 1: spring of next year. I just if you haven't already
52:01
Speaker 1: done the survey, it's fine, you don't have to worry
52:03
Speaker 1: about it. If you've done the survey, you don't need
52:05
Speaker 1: to join the mailing list. But if you haven't done
52:09
Speaker 1: that and you still want to think about going, just
52:13
Speaker 1: add your name to the week email list and you'll
52:16
Speaker 1: be added and we'll let you know more. Details as
52:18
Speaker 1: they come. I'm so excited. I've never done like a
52:21
Speaker 1: proper chure of Scotland. It's been so long since I
52:25
Speaker 1: was there properly. And there's so many areas I've never
52:28
Speaker 1: been to, and there's so much history. Ah, and there's
52:32
Speaker 1: so many castles. Fucking love we castles though, I really
52:35
Speaker 1: do a bloody love of castle, really really do. And
52:41
Speaker 1: let me see now, anything else to tell you? Oh,
52:44
Speaker 1: recommendation time? How could I go with a recommendation time?
52:48
Speaker 1: So for watching, I'm gonna recommend you watch the Eurovision
52:53
Speaker 1: this Friday. If you're watching this on if you're listening
52:58
Speaker 1: to this, sorry, on release day or release week, go
53:02
Speaker 1: out to the Eurovision. Like if it isn't tacky and
53:05
Speaker 1: cheesy in camp or just playing weird, then it shouldn't
53:10
Speaker 1: be in Eurovision. I'm sorry, don't be serious for Eurovision.
53:13
Speaker 1: I want madness, I want chaos and yeah, if you're
53:20
Speaker 1: at time, do that. For reading, I am going to
53:25
Speaker 1: suggest Mortal Monarchs by Susie Edge, just with the coronation.
53:30
Speaker 1: It's inspired me. And finally for listening, everyone should listen
53:35
Speaker 1: to the lesbian version of Joeline. It is so good.
53:39
Speaker 1: It is probably one of my favorite pieces of music
53:42
Speaker 1: at the minute. It's just so fun. And with that,
53:47
Speaker 1: oh yeah, you can follow me on Instagram, Twitter, all
53:52
Speaker 1: the places and like if you interact with me, like
53:55
Speaker 1: I generally interact back. If I am snarky though, it
53:59
Speaker 1: just me have had a really bad day and I apologize.
54:03
Speaker 1: But yes, I am going to bed you a good
54:06
Speaker 1: evening and I hope you have a great night. Adieus
54:11
Speaker 1: Au revoir of What Is There My Friends Aboe By