Latest / The Nerdy Photographer Podcast / 177 - Old Palaces and Glass Towers: Street Photography in Modern Seoul

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177 - Old Palaces and Glass Towers: Street Photography in Modern Seoul · The Nerdy Photographer Podcast

0:04
Gulden Hauer: Snug
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Casey Fatchett: alive on arrival, no thanks to this
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weather. Oh, hey, welcome to the Nerdy Photographer Podcast. I'm
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Gulden Hauer: Snug, snug, snug.
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Casey Fatchett: I know we're both very hungry. On this
0:59
episode of The Nerdy Photographer, I speak with
1:01
photographer, educator, and filmmaker James Choi, who
1:04
recently returned to Korea after being away for more than four
1:07
decades. We discuss the challenges and advantages of
1:10
photographing in a culture that mixes ancient tradition and
1:13
architecture with the modern, as well as how the concept of
1:17
nunci, being able to read a room or situation without exchanging,
1:21
informs his street photography, all of that after the break.
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Hey, before we dive into the show, I have something to tell
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are already in motion. Links are in the show notes. Good luck,
3:54
and let's get into today's episode. Hello, and welcome to
4:03
the Nerdy Photographer Podcast. I'm your host, Casey Fatchett.
4:06
I'm here today with photographer James Choi. James, welcome to
4:10
the show.
4:12
James Choi: Thank you, thank you, Casey. Really, really
4:14
excited to be here. It's an honor. Thank you for having me.
4:17
Casey Fatchett: Glad to have you. Before we get into things,
4:18
we're going to roll the dice breaker, and it is 20 20, okay.
4:26
Who would be your dream dinner party guests, dead or alive, up
4:32
to five people? Who,
4:34
James Choi: five people
4:36
Casey Fatchett: Up to people, you don't, it doesn't have to be
4:39
five, you don't have to fill it all up, but like anybody living
4:44
or dead,
4:44
James Choi: sure, man, you know, the first thing I've sort of
4:49
been going through, and sort of, I don't know, I've just been
4:55
going in internally a lot inwards, so one person right now
4:59
would be. Be Jesus, I know it's crazy, but, or maybe not, but I
5:04
just think he's such a fascinating figure, as I sort of
5:07
study and get more curious about sort of his life, just in terms
5:13
of just his perspective on people and the way that he was
5:16
able to live the life that he led is just fascinating as a
5:19
historical figure, so he'd definitely be one of the people
5:23
at the table, and then, and then I guess there's a filmmaker that
5:31
I was mentored by that I work with back in the day in Cuba,
5:38
and it's Abbas Kiristami from Iran, just an amazing, amazing
5:43
master, and he, we had this amazing experience in Cuba, and
5:47
then he passed shortly thereafter, literally got on a
5:49
plane and passed like maybe a month after, and so it'd be
5:55
great to have him at the table to catch up and just see and
6:00
touch base and just touch base on the things that we missed,
6:05
basically after that time, and then the third person would be
6:09
my dad, you know, he was a huge, very silent man, and being an
6:15
immigrant just didn't have a lot of time and opportunity to
6:19
connect with him, and so he passed when I was in my 30s, but
6:23
I left home basically at 18 and was wasn't back that often, so
6:30
again, just to see how much things have changed on what I've
6:33
done in my career since then is a whole nother lifetime. So it'd
6:37
be great to have him at the table.
6:40
Casey Fatchett: I'm there's a kind of a pattern you can tell
6:42
for me if I'm wrong here. There's sort of like a people
6:46
you look up to, and for sure in those, yeah.
6:50
James Choi: And I guess they're all, and I guess they're all not
6:52
here anymore.
6:55
Casey Fatchett: I mean, listen, I lost both my parents six years
6:59
ago, yeah, and they would definitely be at the at the
7:04
table with me if I could choose anybody, like you know, just
7:07
because, yeah, a, I miss them, but also because they always
7:11
made me laugh, and yeah, and we're a great company to be
7:15
around, so I mean, that was just that's always on the list, but
7:19
yeah, I totally, totally get that.
7:22
James Choi: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, that would be it.
7:25
I mean, I'm sure there's tons of others, but yeah,
7:28
Casey Fatchett: those are your top three. Yeah, so James, you
7:33
are part of a book that is out now, a photo book collection of
7:38
essays as well, called Soul Days and Nights. Could you give a
7:44
listen to a just a little bit background about you as a
7:47
photographer? You're also a director, a little bit of
7:51
background on you, and the book, just to kind of..
7:54
James Choi: sure. Yeah, so my background.. I'm a filmmaker. I
7:58
also teach film at DePaul University here in Chicago, and
8:02
photography has been, and has been a part of my life, but it's
8:06
still very new, and I think there's a real overlap in terms
8:11
of what photography and how it's impacted me as a filmmaker, as a
8:15
casual sort of photographer, and I'm sort of in that stage in
8:20
terms of that part of my life where you know you're always
8:24
sort of wondering, like, am I like when do you cross that
8:28
threshold, you know, like am I a photographer or am I just having
8:33
fun, and so it's all new to me on that side of things, but
8:37
filmmaking has been a big, big part of my life for the past 30
8:42
years, and and it's been an easy crossover, but really, really
8:47
getting into the whole idea of photography in the past five
8:51
years, probably this book came about in terms of I was
8:55
traveling to Korea on a sabbatical, working on a film
8:59
that I was going to make out there, so I was there for six
9:03
months, and during that time I was really getting into
9:07
photography, street photography in particular, and I was out and
9:12
about, taking a lot of photos, posting on my social, and one of
9:16
my colleagues was liking a lot of the stuff, and somehow the
9:21
algorithm had posted her likes onto the editor of Trope, who's
9:25
also going out to Seoul quite frequently in the past five
9:29
years, and he thought, and he recognized that we had a mutual
9:34
connection there, and so he reached out to her, we
9:38
connected, got together in Seoul while I was out there, when he
9:42
was there, and he told me about this book that he was putting
9:47
together, and we started talking back in 2024 when we met, and
9:51
and started to figure out how we were going to collaborate and
9:56
put this book together.
9:57
Casey Fatchett: Well, first of all, I think that. I list
10:01
filmmaking and photography are so like there's such a overlap
10:07
there that I mean I always tell people like you want to learn
10:12
composition and lighting to like look at like the great
10:16
cinematographers like watch watch movies and like there's a
10:20
I can't remember the name of the website, it always loses me.
10:23
There's one, it just has a bunch of stills from, oh yeah, yeah,
10:27
you just look at the stills and just be like, oh, okay, like
10:30
these, it just, you learn so much, so much about lighting and
10:35
composition, just from like looking at stills from films you
10:40
hadn't been back to Seoul for a very long time, like 40
10:45
something years. So, what was that experience like?
10:49
James Choi: 40-six years, yeah, it was wild, man. I mean, you
10:53
know, yeah. I mean, and you think back and you wonder why,
10:58
and you question all these reasons. I mean, I love to
11:01
travel, have been to many, many different parts of the world,
11:05
but Korea was just not one of them. And so, 44 years, and it
11:10
was time, like I said, I think, as in my work, I was sort of
11:14
starting to open up and start to explore sort of the
11:17
vulnerabilities in myself and look, and word, and question a
11:21
lot of things, just in terms of who I am, and I think that led
11:26
to starting to write a lot more stories about, about my
11:30
background and Korea in general, and so that led me out there,
11:34
and it was, it was wild, man, going back, I mean, again, I
11:38
remember very vaguely, you know, my parents immigrated to the
11:41
states when I was five, and it was 1978 so times were very,
11:45
very different, obviously. And so, going back in 2024 after all
11:52
that time, it was just wild in terms of just the comfortability
11:57
of it all, and how different it was, but still feeling the sense
12:00
of belonging and peace and, and comfort that came along with it,
12:04
and that was all the things that I sort of probably
12:07
self-consciously remember at this time, you know, because a
12:10
lot of the things were just fragments and very, very
12:13
specific little images, but nothing more than that, but it
12:16
was, it was incredible, probably one of the most transformative
12:20
experiences in my life, for sure.
12:22
Casey Fatchett: That's, I mean, I'm curious. How do you feel?
12:25
How do you feel that it a changed you as a visual artist,
12:33
and b, how did it change you as more like as a person, like to
12:36
go back and experience that after such a long time removed.
12:43
What sort of effect do you think that it had on you on the way
12:45
that you visually interpret, like creatively?
12:53
James Choi: Yeah, you know, the visual side of things, Casey. I
12:56
across the board, just on the film side, both the film and
13:00
photography, I haven't. I'm not studied in it, you know? Like,
13:04
just again, being a child of immigrants, like art was not a
13:08
thing at all, and I didn't study it in college, so sort of came
13:13
late in my life, and in my 20s, and so, and a lot of it forms
13:17
sort of instinctively, and so I'm sort of instinctively
13:21
reacting the sort of things that are going on inside, and
13:25
sometimes I don't even know why, right, until maybe afterwards,
13:29
and so you know, going back, I don't know if it, if it changed
13:33
me in that way creatively, or the way that I look at things,
13:37
because that's been a pattern, I think, in that way, but it was
13:42
just, it was just going back, just again, again, opened up
13:46
this idea of just a lot of fear and anxiety that you hold about
13:50
again, just sort of growing up here, in particular, sort of
13:54
being the other that sort of is never addressed, and I think
13:58
going back sort of gave me more confidence in sort of
14:02
understanding that, and like again being able to go, you
14:06
know, like throughout the past couple years, it's like the goal
14:10
in all of this, right, and all of art really is to just try to
14:14
figure out how you can be as authentic as possible, and
14:18
oftentimes fear stands in the way of that, and, and so going
14:22
back was just a lot of releasing of that, and again, just being
14:27
able to embrace these stories and these things that I'm
14:31
feeling inside, right, that I'm able to sort of put out, and
14:35
that, and not be fearful about, is it going to be received, is
14:39
it going to be understood? Because I think that was a
14:43
conflict and tension that always existed within me.
14:46
Casey Fatchett: Oh, I mean, I think that that's something that
14:48
a lot of creatives deal with, is the just the fear of, like, is
14:51
anybody gonna like this, is anybody gonna like, and it's
14:55
something that I mean, I highly recommend therapy to. Everyone,
15:01
it's definitely something I've struggled with, probably my
15:04
entire life, of just feeling like, you know, is it worth
15:08
doing this to, you know, is are people going in the coming to
15:13
grips with doesn't matter, yeah, it'd be like it's I'm doing this
15:19
because I have a vision of something, or I have these
15:23
feelings, this thing that I need to express, and if people like
15:27
it, they like it. If they don't, they don't. And to sort of just
15:31
like leave it there, and and it's, it's such a hurdle to get
15:37
over, because especially now with like social media, and
15:40
like, you just sort of like the likes and shares and everything,
15:44
just kind of determining if anybody sees anything. Yeah, it
15:48
can be really daunting,
15:50
James Choi: for sure. For sure, I mean, that was the biggest
15:53
hurdle. I mean, I'm getting there, maybe I'm there. It took
16:00
many, many, many years, but, but just glad to be there and
16:05
enjoying this sort of creative sort of revival right now, at
16:11
least for me personally.
16:12
Casey Fatchett: Now you're going back to Seoul, after many years,
16:17
Seoul is a city that is like rapidly, or has been rapidly
16:22
evolving in the last decades, whatever, like when you were out
16:30
and you're taking pictures or shooting film, how do you decide
16:36
what moments or places you're going to capture the to are you
16:39
trying to because you're personally dealing with coming
16:43
to this, and like seeing it all this new stuff, are you trying
16:47
to create a tension between the old and the new, or are you
16:53
trying to just showcase one at a time, like what was, what's your
16:58
approach in that, because it is such a mean, I'm going to
17:02
probably draw a lot of comparisons to New York City,
17:04
which I live there and near there for the vast majority of
17:12
my life. It just like seeing how things have changed, and just
17:15
like being kind of blown away by like, like what's new and
17:18
different, and like what this used to be,
17:21
James Choi: yeah, for sure. I don't know if those were
17:25
deliberate choices in terms of going out, because you know,
17:30
start going on this journey, and even with the releasing of this
17:35
book, this, this was not sort of, you know, something that I
17:39
thought about. I mean, I met with Sam, probably near the end
17:43
of the trip, end of that six months. So, prior to all the
17:47
photos and all the experiences and walks that I had, it was
17:51
never in my mind like, oh, I'm I'm going to like look at things
17:55
and take photos that are going to ultimately go into a book or
17:58
even go public outside of just my own sort of indulgence of
18:02
putting on my own social pages, didn't really think about that,
18:06
but I think you walk around, and as you said, I mean, I haven't
18:09
spent too much time in New York, but that tension and contrast
18:14
and conflict up between the old and the new is just, it's every,
18:18
you know, like you literally walk out your door, and it's
18:22
right in front of you, like so obnoxiously in your face. And
18:25
having grown up in the Midwest, where it's not that extreme,
18:29
yeah, I mean that just jumped out at me. But the interesting
18:32
thing is just the acceptance of it, and just the allowance of
18:36
how those two things sort of intertwine with each other. So
18:40
you know, I'd be walking around, and there's old palaces in the
18:43
middle of, like, the most modern, you know, business
18:47
district with glass modern buildings, and it's almost
18:49
impossible not to notice that it's almost impossible not to
18:52
notice older people, tons and tons of older people, and the
18:57
way that they've sort of found their space amidst all this
19:01
change and the way that they're able to sort of create and
19:06
congregate in areas or combine and join with sort of the modern
19:11
sort of movement or the youth and it that part of it was just
19:14
really fascinating to me and it was just more about just
19:18
stepping out and you know when I travel as you said, it's all
19:22
new, so everything just feels amazing to me, and I think it
19:25
just heightens our presence. I remember I was working with a DP
19:31
out there, and I was taking tons of photos, and he was seeing
19:33
them as well, and he was like, "Man, you just reminded me he's
19:37
German, and he had lived in - he moved there 20 years ago. He's
19:40
like, I remember you just reminded me, looking at your
19:43
photos, like, just how interesting and dynamic, like,
19:46
soul is, and I had sort of forgotten, he's like, when I
19:49
came, I was taking pictures of everything, and that insight
19:52
into sort of that outsider's perspective and eye into that is
19:56
always sort of fascinating, and so I was just looking at it like
19:59
a little. Kid, just like this is all amazing. I'm just whatever
20:04
moves me in terms of color and mood and tone. I've just taken
20:08
photos of, I
20:09
Casey Fatchett: think that that's, I mean, you, you talked
20:11
about, like, oh, with the increase, just naturally
20:13
increases price. I would hope that it would increase presence.
20:17
Yeah, but you know, sometimes seeing tourists, I'm not
20:22
entirely convinced that everyone is affected in the same way. I
20:27
like, as someone who travels, it's I use New York as an
20:34
example, but I also like to tell people from the United States
20:37
who have never been anywhere, yes, of like, we don't have the
20:41
same amount of like history, because we kind of wiped away a
20:45
lot of the indigenous history and places that were here,
20:49
erased them, and not that Europe, or like it necessarily
20:56
hasn't, but like, tell me, like, you don't understand, like,
20:59
going someplace and seeing a building that has been there for
21:02
600 years or 700 years, just like sitting in the middle of a
21:09
modern city, yeah, it is crazy, like going to Rome and being
21:13
like, okay, you just, here's a bunch of like glass towers, and
21:17
then you turn a corner and there's, you know, something
21:19
that's from, you know, 300 BC, totally, like, just like, oh,
21:25
okay, like, this is, this is a, you know, it's, it really puts
21:32
things in perspective, I think, in a way, like, of, like, the,
21:36
the human condition, as far as, like, you know, like, and I find
21:40
what you were saying very interesting about, like, the
21:45
older generations finding their place in a city that is rapidly
21:50
evolving. I think that's, and that we all have to find kind of
21:55
our, our way in wherever we choose to be, like, as, because
22:00
the world stops for no one, and as a fellow Midwesterner, I grew
22:06
up in Michigan. The I am curious, like the difference of
22:14
like speed of things, because people will ask me, like, how,
22:16
what's Chicago like compared to New York, and I always say,
22:20
like, it's like spread out in New York and slower pace, yeah,
22:25
but like, what is it like going from like that to, I mean,
22:28
what's the pace like in Seoul, and as opposed to Chicago, does
22:34
that, how does that affect, you know, how you were dealing with
22:39
everything, or yeah,
22:40
James Choi: I mean, I think you know, you nailed it. I mean, the
22:44
pacing here is way, way slower to me. I mean, I feel that
22:49
whenever I go to New York, I mean, and I love sort of the
22:52
energy of the New York in that way, and so Seoul is very
22:58
similar to that, or just big major cities in that way, so
23:03
together with the sort of the bigness and the energy of that
23:07
city, and then sort of placing myself into that area, into that
23:11
city, not as a tourist, but just sort of coming back home. It was
23:18
like, I mean, I, the amount of energy, like I think back now, I
23:21
mean, the amount of like walking and just the energy I had to
23:25
like go around and want to take photos and want to just be see
23:31
and be in it was was amazing, but that, you know, that that's
23:36
the benefits, because I don't know how else I would be able to
23:38
do that much exploring and that much walking, otherwise, but
23:44
yeah, it's the energy that is unbelievable.
23:46
Casey Fatchett: One of the things that you brought up in
23:49
part of the one of the essays and a little bit of the photos
23:53
in was the sort of slow disappearance of mom and pop
24:00
food that the story, and again, I don't want to sound like a
24:05
broken record. It brings me back to my experiences in New York,
24:10
and seeing, like, how the culture,
24:12
James Choi: yeah,
24:13
Casey Fatchett: of a city changes, and we talked about,
24:15
usually, like, people, they think of, like, oh, things are
24:19
changing, you know, again, the city, or it's, you know,
24:22
everything's always evolving, and it's the feeling of like
24:24
you're losing part of the character in some way of of the
24:29
city that makes it wonderful, and what it is, and I'm curious,
24:39
because, hey, I love food. Food is a major question anytime I
24:45
travel. Where are we going to eat? Like, what's.. and I sort
24:50
of adhere to the Anthony Bourdain mentality of like, go
24:56
and eat the street food and go and eat like. You know, what
25:00
people, what everybody else eats, and see what's go to a
25:03
nice restaurant. Also, go to, you know, a street vendor and
25:08
have something. I'm curious, a, you'd been away for a long time,
25:12
but like, what, like coming back and finding that sort of, I
25:16
don't know, modernization, which tends to be like more not
25:22
chains, necessarily, but I don't know, like industrialized food.
25:28
What sort of effect did that have on your experience of the
25:33
city? Reading the.. I read, I've read the book. It's.. I have a
25:39
sense of that, but I think for the listeners, what your
25:43
experience in that was like,
25:46
James Choi: sure, and I think the essay there, that that
25:50
wasn't, I didn't dive deeply into that, that one, but my
25:56
experience, in terms of food, was, you know, I love Korean
25:59
food, obviously, for numerous reasons, but one being, you
26:04
know, my parents, I mean, that's just all they cooked, I mean, so
26:09
I was just introduced and exposed to Korean food
26:12
throughout my whole life, and so that was a big part of it, going
26:16
to the West Coast and living in LA for 20 years, huge Korean
26:20
community, the Korean food scene there is huge. So, going to
26:25
Korea, you know, I was just in heaven, just going like this is
26:29
going to be amazing, like I'm just going to be surrounded by
26:31
this, and what I notice is that while the commercialism and the
26:36
tourism and all of that sort of has a very specific place in
26:42
Seoul. The amount of just businesses is pretty mind-like.
26:48
I have never been to a city where, like, every store is
26:52
either a cafe or some sort of food, like almost like every
26:57
block everywhere you go, like you can go down a neighborhood
27:00
street, and find like a restaurant in the basement of an
27:03
apartment, you know, or like it's everywhere, it's like you
27:06
can throw a rock, like, and so it was wild to just have that
27:10
around and just to be stopped stepping into people's spaces in
27:16
that way, and, and how they're growing, I mean, I don't
27:19
economically, I don't know how they survive, and I wonder what
27:22
the turnover rate is for restaurants, but there's such a
27:26
huge abundance of it. If you again just allow yourself just
27:30
even a little bit of space to step outside of sort of like the
27:34
traditional commercial street market, or you know, all the
27:39
restaurants that are on like the Michelin or whatever, it's it's
27:45
wild, and it was amazing. I mean, we were in heaven. I
27:47
brought my family out there, so we were all there for six, for
27:49
the six months, and obviously with the dollar exchange, the
27:53
benefits, again, being American sometimes when you travel to
27:57
certain places is in terms of food is huge, like we can go
28:02
anywhere and just dine, and then the smaller places you go to,
28:06
it's almost like you just feel guilty in what, in what you get,
28:11
for like, you know, it's literally like you're just in
28:13
somebody's, you know, having dinner at somebody's house.
28:16
Casey Fatchett: Well, it also kind of makes you question,
28:19
like, why are we like so used to spending so much more on food
28:23
here. I know, like, why is that so difficult for us to figure
28:27
out? Yeah, I don't know. That's that going places is like
28:31
sitting like, what? How? Like, how many courses?
28:34
James Choi: Yeah, and how? Why is this so like fresh? Like,
28:38
what's going like anywhere? It was caught across
28:40
Casey Fatchett: the street, like in the bay, across the quest
28:44
from the restaurant, like today. That's it. Is okay. Yeah. And,
28:49
as opposed to here, where you're sort of like fish, what day of
28:54
the week is it?
28:56
James Choi: What process?
28:57
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, like, where? When did it? When did it
28:59
arrive in the restaurant? I'm not eating this. Don't eat,
29:02
never eat the seafood chowder on a Monday,
29:04
James Choi: right?
29:05
Casey Fatchett: That's, uh, yeah, it's.. it's one of those
29:09
experiences that you get, like you're saying, like going
29:13
outside of.. like, recommend to anybody who travels anywhere to
29:18
really experience the local fair.
29:21
James Choi: Totally,
29:21
Casey Fatchett: it's such a eye-opening taste bud opening
29:27
experience. It's, it's, it's a great experience. Now, something
29:34
else in the book that that I was, I had never heard of this,
29:39
but I'm always sort of, I try to be a student of other cultures
29:45
as much as I can, and learn about them. Is this concept of
29:49
nunci? Yeah, correctly.
29:52
Gulden Hauer: Yeah, which
29:56
Casey Fatchett: is fundamentally sort of like reading the room
29:59
without. Like having a discussion, and, and just sort
30:02
of being able to understand a social hierarchies, as well as,
30:08
like, what's going on, just what's going on, and if I'm
30:12
getting this wrong, please feel free to correct me. Yeah, but
30:17
isn't street photography kind of at its essence sort of it, a
30:22
very similar thing to Nuncia, just being able to read what's
30:26
going on in a situation,
30:30
James Choi: for sure, for sure. I mean, I think that applies to
30:33
everything in life, right? I mean, I look at my mom, used to
30:36
always say that to me, about, you know, like, oh, you, you
30:42
have the ability, or you're really good at having nunchie,
30:46
right? And I'm always.. I was always like, what? As a kid, I
30:49
was always like, what does this mean? But it's sort of like it's
30:52
a skill set that sort of allows you to sort of survive, right? I
30:56
mean, especially if you.. if the language is new, or like, you
30:59
don't know what the hell is going on? Your instinct is to
31:02
sort of sit and observe and sort of try to figure out what the
31:07
dynamics is in the room before you speak, because you're just
31:11
like, I don't want to say the wrong thing, and that was just
31:14
totally put on me circumstantially, but it is a,
31:18
it is a thing that people there just are very, very aware of and
31:22
conscious of, and so that has a tremendous impact. I think that
31:27
in street photography, though, has pulled me away, like people
31:32
like that's made me very fearful in a lot of ways, and so I'm
31:36
always more like hesitant, so a lot of my stuff tends to be
31:39
further away, obviously people who are less fearful can utilize
31:45
that to be like I understand, I understand how somebody is
31:51
moving their body language, their sense, and then approach
31:55
them and be closer, but that sort of pulled me away, but
32:00
yeah, it's a huge part, and applies so directly to street
32:05
photography in particular.
32:06
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, so you're not doing like the Bruce Gilton
32:07
approach of this, like running.
32:09
James Choi: No, no, I would like, even if I feel like they
32:14
might, I.. it's just hard. It's hard for me to do that.
32:18
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I've never been one to like, when I'm
32:20
taking pictures anywhere to be like run up at anybody or like,
32:23
yeah, like I'm going to take your picture, like let's get a
32:26
photo of like I see the thing happening in the scenario and
32:30
I'm going to take a photo of that, but I'm not. I also same
32:33
thing, don't I don't want to disturb people or make them feel
32:37
self-conscious about being themself, because generally I
32:40
want that photo to be observed, observation, like you're saying
32:43
you're observing what's happening, and you don't want to
32:47
influence it. Yeah, that's my, that's the school of street
32:51
photography that I ascribed to you when I am out, like
32:53
traveling and taking pictures anywhere. It's, yeah, I'm not
32:57
trying to influence what's happening, I want to really
33:00
document what's going on, so my next question is, like, any.. I
33:07
think you kind of got into this a little bit, but, like, you,
33:11
like, did your own social awareness ever, like, stop you
33:17
from taking a photo, like you were like, I'm gonna.. oh, this
33:22
is a great shot, and then you're sort of like, even if you're not
33:25
interfering anyway, but you're sort of like, oh no, I'm not
33:27
gonna.. I'm not gonna take.. I'm not gonna document this, or I'm
33:32
not going to try to record this in some way that's not. it's not
33:39
a. doesn't feel right.
33:44
James Choi: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if that's that
33:47
influenced me. I think that's just sort of a ethical moral
33:50
call, just I make personally. You'd be surprised, yeah. Like,
33:55
I'm like, okay, well, like, do I want to take, you know,
33:57
especially in this day and age, like, do I want to take pictures
34:00
of kids. I try, I try to sort of pull back from those sort of
34:06
scenarios and situations, and just again, I, that part of it
34:11
is sort of, you know, just assessing the situation and just
34:15
being like, is this a moment that might be too private that I
34:19
don't really need to expose to everybody else for them, and so,
34:24
yeah, but yeah, I, it didn't, it didn't really, that part of it
34:30
wasn't huge of the ninchie,
34:35
Casey Fatchett: you felt it as more just who you are as a
34:38
person, yeah, like, hey, I'm not gonna, this is not, not for me
34:43
to, yeah, hoard. So, is there a photograph of yours in the book
34:53
that you do? You have a real emotional. Connection to, or is
35:01
it like something that really felt like this was a moment that
35:08
really summed up your feelings coming back to Seoul, and just
35:13
like, is there something that you captured that really
35:18
crystallized your feelings for this trip, or is, or is it all
35:23
like the collection of it as a whole that that you really feel
35:27
like is the expression of your experience?
35:31
James Choi: Yeah, I would say it's a collection. I mean,
35:34
there's one, there's one, like there's a certain neighborhood,
35:37
you know, Chongno, where they have the Sihoon Market or Sihoon
35:43
Plaza, just like this, like almost weird old relic, like it
35:48
literally is like it. I, it's amazing that it still exists
35:52
when you walk around it. But I was out, I was walking around
35:58
there one day, and there were so many great things there, but
36:00
there was again these like eight old men, basically kind of
36:06
dressed up on the steps of Siewing Plaza, and that was
36:12
really that, that really struck me, just in terms of again the
36:15
things we've talked about in terms of the past, in the way
36:20
that sort of older people, I mean, it really reminded me of
36:22
my grandfather, and imagining sort of like what he would be
36:25
doing in this space, and he passed away when he was younger
36:30
as well, but I just, it just really struck me in terms of
36:36
sort of again this sort of connection between the old and
36:41
the new, and that way, and that space, like I always, that those
36:46
were the biggest moments again
37:02
Gulden Hauer: Well,
37:04
James Choi: yeah, those were the moments that really struck me,
37:08
was just again having people having spaces in such a large
37:14
city, especially older people, because that's something that I
37:18
feel like we don't really see often in the States.
37:22
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's, I mean, I'll draw another parallel
37:26
to New York City, which is that I see, like, when you're, when
37:30
you're in Chinatown, in New York City, you will see a lot of
37:34
older people who have, like, created spaces for themselves
37:38
where they're doing tai chi, yeah, whatever, and which is I
37:42
have never, never see in any other American city, for the
37:49
most part, like these sorts of play, like outdoor spaces for
37:55
older generations to meet, hang out, do things that doesn't
38:01
exist, and maybe that's a cultural thing, that, but I wish
38:07
there was way more of it here in the states, that there was a, I
38:13
don't know, it just feeling that our elders still exist and are
38:21
vibrant and lively, they're not just like sort of trying to
38:28
think of the word relegated to retirement homes and being off
38:34
like that, they're sort of already been put on the ice flow
38:38
in the way, like that sort of feeling like instead of like hey
38:41
let's again, culturally, I think there's, is there's a, is where
38:45
that difference comes from of engaging and embracing the older
38:56
people, and yeah, and learning from their experience, and
39:00
things like that, and you know, just accepting that they're a
39:07
part of our society, it's so different from how the state's
39:13
doing, so a question to sort of put a topper on this. What do
39:23
you hope that someone who's never been to Soul takes away
39:31
from this book, and what do you hope that people like who live
39:38
in Seoul see, feel, and experience from reading the
39:43
book, so that's sort of two parter. What are the.. what do
39:46
you hope that everybody gets out of this?
39:49
James Choi: Well, I mean, for those that haven't been, I mean,
39:52
I really.. what I really love about sort of what Trope and Sam
39:56
were able to put together, and the amazing editor of the. Book
40:00
is just creating a sense of feeling, and I love that,
40:04
because you think about city books, and it's typically about
40:09
places, and it's, it's sort of a travel, it feels like a travel
40:14
book, and I really love that they went to the space of sort
40:18
of finding a feeling, of finding a feeling of what sort of the
40:22
texture the daily life is like that incorporates places, but it
40:28
just allows you, you know, like we're so inundated right now
40:31
with sort of the cultural sort of pop distribution of of Korean
40:40
art and form and food with, you know, K-pop and all the Korean
40:47
sort of culinary confusions
40:52
Casey Fatchett: and everything everybody brings in,
40:54
James Choi: yeah, everything, squid games, like all the things
40:56
that you see, right, and so just to get down to sort of like, oh
41:00
wait, there's a whole nother sort of world of existence in
41:04
the way that they function and live their daily lives that's
41:07
super textured and dynamic, so I think you know, hopefully they
41:11
read this or see it and they're like, oh, this is what an
41:14
interesting place, and like you said, like that it will help
41:17
them sort of step out and maybe go check out sort of the local,
41:21
the local scene, as opposed to like the scene that you see,
41:25
that's, you know, in your algorithm, through sort of the
41:28
viral, viral posts.
41:31
Casey Fatchett: I don't know, they, before you get to the, for
41:34
people from, so, yeah, the algorithm, I think, is for the
41:39
younger generations, they, they're fed this thing, and then
41:45
I think that this is a regardless of location or, you
41:52
know, experience that instead of allowing something else to
41:58
choose for you, going out and exploring and allowing random
42:02
things to happen to you, and it's with this, is not just like
42:06
traveling, or you know, like it's this food, it's music, it's
42:11
film, it's whatever, and I try to explain to my, you know,
42:16
nephews and niece, and people their age, whatever, it's saying
42:21
used to go to a record store, and you know the person behind
42:24
the counter would say, "What are you into? And then they'd be
42:28
like, "Hey, you might like this, and people go like, "Oh, that's
42:31
an algorithm. Like, no, no, it's not like it was somebody who
42:36
really understood the music,
42:38
James Choi: yeah,
42:39
Casey Fatchett: who would recommend something, or a friend
42:41
would say, hey, you should watch this movie, it's not good, but
42:45
you're gonna laugh at it, like it's gonna be great, and like
42:47
people used to watch movies that they didn't like were not good,
42:50
like you go to the video store and just like browse through
42:53
videos and just be like let's watch this, we're probably gonna
42:56
talk through the whole thing, but it looks like it'll be fun
42:58
background, you know,
43:00
James Choi: exactly
43:01
Casey Fatchett: for us to like just to have it on, and that
43:04
sort of willingness to, I think, is just something that's dying
43:08
on it, willingness to fail in a sense of like, you know, like
43:13
this might not be the greatest thing in the world, but you're
43:17
gonna, you're going to enjoy this experience for sure, I
43:21
think that, and that's that, you broaden your horizons by
43:25
allowing yourself to go on those journeys, like take it, allow
43:29
yourself to go on the journey and experience new things that
43:33
are maybe outside of your regular experience,
43:36
James Choi: for sure, for sure, and they, and I think they do,
43:40
they did such a great job of that in terms of what, what they
43:46
were able to put together with souls sold day and nights. So I
43:51
hope that that'll open people up to explore in terms of the folks
43:57
in Korea. I think going back to our conversation with my DP, you
44:02
know, again, for them, as with us, when you're in it, it's so
44:07
easy, it's so easy to appreciate what's in front of you, you
44:13
become numb to it, you become numb to sort of have how vibrant
44:18
and dynamic your city is, and I know street photography isn't
44:23
necessarily a thing. It's not as prominent in Korea. I don't, in
44:31
some ways, like it's not people are not out just doing a lot of
44:36
street photography, and I think you know today they're going to
44:41
look at it and be like, wow, this is our city. Interesting. A
44:46
couple years from now they're going to look at it and look at
44:49
it as a really interesting time capsule, which is such the
44:52
beauty of street photography is that we get to capture time in a
44:58
very unfiltered way. I somehow I was looking at photos of soul
45:05
from like the 50s and 70s and 80s, and it's wild. I mean, like
45:11
more sort of street photography, and it's so wild to like see
45:14
that. And so I hope that this can carry on like that for
45:18
people there as well.
45:19
Casey Fatchett: It becomes such a time capsule in a way, like
45:22
you, and I think it's important to, for posterity, to for people
45:29
to have those that sort of record, because I'm sorry, our
45:34
digital footprint in some way, like social media, everything is
45:38
just nobody's going back into my, like, looking at this photo
45:42
from, you know, 1020 years ago, you know, on Instagram to have
45:48
those sorts of records,
45:50
James Choi: yeah,
45:51
Casey Fatchett: of like what life was like in this place at
45:54
this time, is it's really important to call back and, and
45:58
see that,
45:59
James Choi: yeah, everything's so curated, and it feels so
46:07
fabricated in practice. You know what I mean. It's like even,
46:10
even the photos people are taking that are supposed to be
46:12
natural just feel so unnatural, and so there's a lot of sort of
46:16
posturing in that sense of representing who you are in our
46:20
social media world, so it's yeah, it's essential, I think,
46:24
to just sort of like really see it without that sort of filter.
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49:16
Unknown: Hey, now for my favorite part of the show,
49:20
what's that? Say useless information. This is always
49:26
death.
49:29
Casey Fatchett: Useless information for this episode.
49:33
James, true or false? The injuries of Luke Skywalker's
49:40
face when he's attacked by the snow monster and Empire Strikes
49:47
Back are real,
49:49
James Choi: I'm gonna say false,
49:53
Casey Fatchett: no true. Mark Hamill had been in a car
49:57
accident. Oh, wow, between A New Hope. First, Star Wars and
50:03
Empire Strikes Back, and they decided to, and rather than
50:08
delay filming, George Lucas worked it into the script.
50:14
James Choi: Wow, you know, I should have, I should have
50:16
figured going back, back to the old days, you know, they don't,
50:19
they don't, they don't mess around, back then.
50:22
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it was funny. Is a car accident, but
50:24
there was a movie called Corvette Summer, and I always
50:27
remember that he was in, because people were like, why didn't he
50:29
become like a bigger movie star?
50:31
James Choi: Yeah,
50:31
Casey Fatchett: at the time, but it sort of flopped, and I can't
50:35
remember if he was like he was go back and check this, I may be
50:40
wrong, and maybe listeners are gonna get yelled at me for this,
50:44
but I feel like he was actually driving a Corvette when he was
50:47
in an accident. It wasn't on the film, like the set of that film,
50:51
but he would like, did the film Corvette Summer. I don't know
50:55
why that always sticks out in my head, but yeah, definitely they
51:01
incorporated it, instead of like saying, like, let's figure out a
51:04
bunch of makeup on it, or yeah, start filming later. Yeah, just
51:09
went ahead with it.
51:11
James Choi: That's awesome,
51:12
Casey Fatchett: James. It's real pleasure having you on the show.
51:16
I'm going to include a link in the episode notes to the book
51:19
for anybody who's interested in taking a look at the book, where
51:23
can people find you?
51:25
James Choi: Yeah, people can find me on my Instagram tag,
51:28
JCPOV, and I have, you know, just all my stuff in terms of
51:34
photography and film work, that and updates on things and
51:37
screenings all posted on there, so that'd be great for Apollo.
51:42
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I'm gonna include that link as well.
51:44
Again, thank you for being on the show. I really appreciate
51:46
it.
51:47
James Choi: Awesome, thanks for having me. Casey was great.
51:54
Casey Fatchett: Welcome back. I hope you enjoyed my conversation
51:57
with James Choi. You can find his links in the episode notes,
52:00
as well as where you can find the book Soul Days and Nights,
52:03
which he contributed to. While you're in a following mood, be
52:06
sure to follow us on the socials, you know, at The Nerdy
52:09
Photo, that's at The Nerdy Photo, no dots, underscores, or
52:12
dashes on Instagram, Threads, Reddit, Tick Tock, and Blue Sky.
52:17
Lots of fun stuff happens between the episodes, and you
52:19
get to take part in that if you're on the socials. Okay, so
52:23
time to pay the bill. I had a bowl of noodles and a bowl of
52:26
soup. What did you have?
52:28
Gulden Hauer: Snug, snug, snug, snug, snug, snug, snug, snug,
52:33
snug, snug, snug.
52:35
Casey Fatchett: Okay, so four bowls of noodles, three plates
52:38
of dumplings, and a bowl of soup,
52:41
Gulden Hauer: snug. snug, snug, snug, snug, snug, snug, snug,
52:47
snug, snug, snug, snug, snug, snug, and snug, snug,
52:54
Casey Fatchett: and three orders of those shrimp-like things.
52:57
Okay, got it. Excuse me, we'd like to pay. I've got galactic
53:00
credits.
53:02
Gulden Hauer: Nisha, Nisha,
53:08
Casey Fatchett: you don't take credits. Damn, cash rules
53:10
everything around me. Until next time, folks. Stay safe and stay
53:14
nerdy, you.
53:25
Unknown: Who's your heartbeat beating about? You better,
53:31
you're better, you're better, you're better. Listen, you.