Latest / Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights & Cosmic Discoveries / Cosmic Mysteries, Lost Civilizations & Solar Probes: #482

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Cosmic Mysteries, Lost Civilizations & Solar Probes: #482 · Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights & Cosmic Discoveries

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Speaker 1: Space Nuts is taking a bit of a break at
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Speaker 1: the moment, Fred and I'll be back in the not
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Speaker 1: too distant future with fresh episodes. In the meantime, enjoy
0:08
Speaker 1: some of the key episodes that we have presented over
0:12
Speaker 1: the years, major events in astronomy and space science, and
0:17
Speaker 1: we'll see you real soon. Fifteen seconds Gaden the in
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Speaker 1: Channel ten nine ignition Squench Space Nuts or three two
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Speaker 1: more renew one Space notes as actually bought it Bills
0:34
Speaker 1: Good and on the program today, we will be discussing
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Speaker 1: some work that's been done through the University of Cambridge
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Speaker 1: where they may have may have accidentally stumbled across evidence
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Speaker 1: of dark energy. Now we know it exists, we know
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Speaker 1: it makes up a substantial part of the universe. We've
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Speaker 1: just never been able to actually identify it directly. So
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Speaker 1: have they found dark energy? Have they found evidence of it?
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Speaker 1: I mean, we know it's there because of the influence
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Speaker 1: it has, so we'll look into that. We're also going
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Speaker 1: to talk about ay two hundred year old observatory in Peru.
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Speaker 1: It was only recently discovered around two thousand and five
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Speaker 1: and it still works. It still works quite extraordinary. I'm
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Speaker 1: your host Andrew Dunkley, and joining me as always is
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Speaker 1: Professor Fred What's an astronomer at large? Hello Fred, good Andrew,
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Speaker 1: how you do I am quite well.
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Speaker 2: How are you? Yes, very well, indeed, thank you.
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Speaker 1: Now let's move on to our first topic, Fred, and
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Speaker 1: that is dark energy. We get so many questions about
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Speaker 1: dark matter and dark energy, all because of the mystery
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Speaker 1: surrounding this stuff. Dark energy. We talked about how it's
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Speaker 1: probably not well named, but they've been doing some experiments
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Speaker 1: through the University of Cambridge and it looks like they
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Speaker 1: might have stumbled across the detection of dark energy. It's
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Speaker 1: not being absolutely confirmed, but they might have you know,
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Speaker 1: tripped over it by accident, because I would try to
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Speaker 1: do something.
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Speaker 2: Else there were that's right. So this is an experiment
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Speaker 2: at the Xenon one T the facility which is at
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Speaker 2: Grand Sasso in Italy, and it's a bit like a
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Speaker 2: you know, an astronomical telescope. It's built as a facility
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Speaker 2: that can be used by many astronomers and they all
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Speaker 2: come and get there two or three nights or whatever
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Speaker 2: it is on the telescope and then go away and
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Speaker 2: work out the results. And a facility like this is
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Speaker 2: similar in the sense that it has accessed by various
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Speaker 2: different researchers, and in this case, as you've said that
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Speaker 2: these researchers are from the University of Cambridge and they've
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Speaker 2: got basically the bottom line, Andrew, is that there are
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Speaker 2: some unexplained results that have come from this experiment. What
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Speaker 2: these scientists were looking for was evidence of extremely rare
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Speaker 2: interaction between particles of dark matter, which makes up about
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Speaker 2: twenty seven percent of the mass energy budget of the
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Speaker 2: universe compared with about five percent for all the stuff
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Speaker 2: we can see. So they were looking for so we
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Speaker 2: think that dark matter is some species of a subatomic
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Speaker 2: particle which we haven't yet identified, but that it may
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Speaker 2: on very rare occasions interact i e.
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Speaker 1: Bash into.
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Speaker 2: A normal matter particle hydrogen or carbon or whatever. And
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Speaker 2: the idea of this xenon one T experiment was to
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Speaker 2: try and detect such such collisions. But what they found
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Speaker 2: was a background signal that wasn't didn't match any of
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Speaker 2: the predictions for dark matter, but actually was more like
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Speaker 2: the kind of signals that you might expect from dark energy.
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Speaker 2: And that's intrus because dark energy has always been seen
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Speaker 2: as the harder problem to solve it's what is it
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Speaker 2: sixty eight percent of the universe's dark energy, and it's
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Speaker 2: basically an energy of space itself. That's what we believe
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Speaker 2: that's causing the expansion of the universe to accelerate. But
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Speaker 2: subatomic physicists, they think in terms of dark energy is
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Speaker 2: being carried by particles, for example, gravity, which is in
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Speaker 2: some ways the opposite of dark energy because it's a
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Speaker 2: bulling together of matter and we do understand gravity that
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Speaker 2: we don't have a subatomic model for it properly yet,
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Speaker 2: but people speculate that it's carried by gravitons, sub astomic
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Speaker 2: particles that carry the effect of gravity, and there may
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Speaker 2: be particles that carry the effect of dark energy, and
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Speaker 2: that's what they think they've detected.
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Speaker 1: You know, it's really funny because when I was reading
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Speaker 1: the article, I thought popped into my head and I thought,
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Speaker 1: is it possible that dark energy is simply anti gravity?
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Speaker 2: No, it's not, okay, And the reason for that is
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Speaker 2: dark energy is everywhere, and the effect of gravity is
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Speaker 2: well understood. It follows the square or so that you know,
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Speaker 2: as you move away from it, the gravity drops off
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Speaker 2: with the square of the distance. Dark energy is not
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Speaker 2: like that it's everywhere, so it is different, but its
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Speaker 2: properties are similar in the sense that if gravity is
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Speaker 2: an attractive force, if I put it that way, dark
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Speaker 2: dark energy isn't.
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Speaker 1: It's a repulsive force. And in that way, Yeah, they
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Speaker 1: seem to be opposites to each other.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great, that's the thing, but it's not anti
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Speaker 2: gravity because to have gravity you need matter, and we
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Speaker 2: don't seem to need matter for dark energy.
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Speaker 1: It's just yeah, okay, wow, And they get to do
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Speaker 1: some tweaking of the experiment, as I understand it, to
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Speaker 1: see if they can now hone in on this because
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Speaker 1: it's not absolutely certain that this is what they've discovered,
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Speaker 1: is it.
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Speaker 2: No, that's right, and these things never are there. You
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Speaker 2: know what you have to do. You get something that
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Speaker 2: looks suspicious and then you, exactly as you've said, home
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Speaker 2: in on it to try and really kind of tease
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Speaker 2: it to death to find out what's actually lurking there,
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Speaker 2: whether it is a real observation or something different. And
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Speaker 2: the classic example of that was a couple of years
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Speaker 2: ago there were two experiments at Cerne that gave results
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Speaker 2: that suggested that a sub atomic particle had been discovered
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Speaker 2: that might lead to the proof of supersymmetry, which is
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Speaker 2: another theory that doesn't have any any physical observation behind
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Speaker 2: it at the moment. But both of those observations, even
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Speaker 2: though they were done on two different instruments, they just
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Speaker 2: they disappeared. They when they looked more closely, the signals
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Speaker 2: weren't there. And I should explain that this is all
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Speaker 2: measured in terms of probability. You know what the probability
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Speaker 2: is of this being real, and for it to be
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Speaker 2: reported as a real effect, it needs a very high probability.
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Speaker 1: Indeed, well, they're going to try and replicate this. And
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Speaker 1: the part of the story that really made my eyes
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Speaker 1: pop out was you know, we think we might be
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Speaker 1: able to get an answer within a decade.
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Speaker 2: That's pretty soon for this sort of thing, I guess.
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Speaker 1: So, all right, something to watch with interest and may
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Speaker 1: slowly down the number of questions we get about it.
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Speaker 2: Well, it will be Yeah, wouldn't it be great if
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Speaker 2: we could pin down dark energy? And what will be
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Speaker 2: even greater is that that really that really will be physics.
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Speaker 2: So it's beyond the theory of relativity. That could open
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Speaker 2: up all kinds of possibilities.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, couldn't it just wow. Okay, now let's talk about
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Speaker 1: this Peruvian observatory that was discovered in two thousand and
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Speaker 1: five and has hit the news again. What's the story
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Speaker 1: with this one?
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Speaker 2: Forrad? Yeah, this is something very very close to my heart, Andrew,
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Speaker 2: And the reason is that Marni and I led i
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Speaker 2: think the first tourist expedition to this site back in
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Speaker 2: two thousand and seven. It was our first first science
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Speaker 2: tour and we had one of the archaeologists who is
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Speaker 2: responsible for the discovery, Ivan Getzi, Peruvian scientist. He came
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Speaker 2: with us, so we got a first time to look
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Speaker 2: at it, and honestly, it is such a haunting place
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Speaker 2: that it's stayed with me ever since. If anybody is
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Speaker 2: interested in following up my experience in that, I think
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Speaker 2: it's chapter three of Starkreing Mad, my book about Astronomy Travels,
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Speaker 2: is devoted to this place and what it was, what
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Speaker 2: it was all about. So what we're talking about is
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Speaker 2: this is about three hundred and seventy kilometers north of
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Speaker 2: Lima's It's in the Cosma Valley is the river valley name,
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Speaker 2: and this is a place where a river flows down
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Speaker 2: from the Andes and of course it comes and goes
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Speaker 2: very strongly with the snow melt in the andes right
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Speaker 2: and huddled around the river, fertile areas with little villages
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Speaker 2: in them. But also so you only have to walk
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Speaker 2: through four hundred meters away from the river and you're
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Speaker 2: in desert, and it's proper sandy desert. Yeah, I thought
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Speaker 2: from the video it looked really desolate. It is utterly desolate.
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Speaker 2: But at the same time, two three hundred years ago,
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Speaker 2: and in fact at least a thousand years before that,
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Speaker 2: because there are other artifacts there, it was a thriving
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Speaker 2: center of population and with a probably a religion that
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Speaker 2: demanded huge constructions, and there's evidence of plazas on a
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Speaker 2: mammoth scale half a kilometer across, you know, and another
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Speaker 2: structures having been there. But in the middle of all
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Speaker 2: this there's a hill which runs north south pretty well
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Speaker 2: exactly north south, almost like a hog's back type hill
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Speaker 2: with a curved top. It's two three hundred meters long,
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Speaker 2: and on top of that are thirteen towers built to
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Speaker 2: very exact proportions their damage. Now, earthquake damage tends to
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Speaker 2: knock the corners off structures like this, so most of
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Speaker 2: them have got some earthquake damage. But those towers haven't
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Speaker 2: actually been known for many decades. But it was only
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Speaker 2: in two thousand and five, as he said, and actually
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Speaker 2: published in two thousand and six, that Yvan Getzi and
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Speaker 2: another well known archaeo astronomer, that's the ancient astronomy who's
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Speaker 2: at the University of Leicester, Clive Ruggles. And I was
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Speaker 2: actually talking to Clive last week because if it had
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Speaker 2: a talk for us, a great speaker and a great
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Speaker 2: scientist as well. So Yvanne and Clive figured out that
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Speaker 2: what these towers were for was a calendar essentially, And
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Speaker 2: so what you've got is they identified two places, one
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Speaker 2: to the east of the row of towers, one to
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Speaker 2: the west of it, where if you observe the sun
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Speaker 2: rising on one side and setting on the other side,
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Speaker 2: those towers act as a kind of calibration of the horizon.
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Speaker 2: So the sun comes up slightly differently every day, yep.
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Speaker 2: And by looking at those where it crosses those towers,
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Speaker 2: you can see exactly what the day was. So an
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Speaker 2: enormous amount of effort went into understanding that and building it,
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Speaker 2: and we're left with this, you know, this record of
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Speaker 2: a civilization about which we know very little. They're well
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Speaker 2: pre incur the Incas were in the fourteen fifteen centuries
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Speaker 2: fifteen sixty, I think, culturally, but this is a different civilization.
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Speaker 2: What is really striking, though, is that you could, if
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Speaker 2: you make your observations carefully, you could work out what
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Speaker 2: day it was within a year. Now, they didn't have
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Speaker 2: a modern calendar then, but they would have perhaps worked
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Speaker 2: out the dates by when the sun crossed this, you know,
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Speaker 2: they cross the different towers. And what it seems to
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Speaker 2: have been all about, Andrew and this is a slightly gruesome.
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Speaker 2: Part of this was ritual warfare. It was about the
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Speaker 2: gods telling them that they had to go and beat
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Speaker 2: up the neighbors because they'd get the water if they didn't,
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Speaker 2: and they had these ritual wars which were absolutely scathing.
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Speaker 2: They were ghastly gruesome. And there's another temple not very
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Speaker 2: far from chang Killo which we also visited, that's full
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Speaker 2: of murals, carved murals that look as though they've been
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Speaker 2: made yesterday. This is more than three thousand years old,
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Speaker 2: but it shows dismembered bodies and it's just very accurate
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Speaker 2: and really grim to look at. So that was what
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Speaker 2: it was all about, which is bizarre to our understanding.
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Speaker 2: But it's an extraordinary thing. The reason why it's in
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Speaker 2: the news again, Andrew, to get to the point, is
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Speaker 2: that it's just been given World Heritage listing. Yeah, thanks
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Speaker 2: to Clive and other people. It really needs protection. It
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Speaker 2: is such an iconic.
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Speaker 1: Site, magnificent. It must have been a thrill to get
13:39
Speaker 1: to say it. Unbelievable, Yeah, unbelievable, amazing. All right, you
13:44
Speaker 1: can learn more about it by jumping online. There's lots
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Speaker 1: of articles and yeah, yeah, it's easy to find. I
13:52
Speaker 1: think the University of Leicester has published a story about
13:55
Speaker 1: it as well. No, yeah, and dig that one up.
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Speaker 1: Listening to Space Nuts. My name's Andrew Dunkley with Professor
14:04
Speaker 1: Fred Watson Space Nuts.
14:10
Speaker 3: Hello again, Space Nutters. This is Anna from Astronomy Daily,
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Speaker 3: the podcast, stopping by again with a couple of the
14:16
Speaker 3: important stories we've been following over the past week. Today,
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Speaker 3: we've got some exciting updates about NASA's Parker Solar Probe
14:24
Speaker 3: and the Mars sample return mission. Let's start with some
14:27
Speaker 3: history making. In an incredible feat of engineering and scientific achievement,
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Speaker 3: NASA's Parker Solar Probe has just shattered its own records
14:36
Speaker 3: by making its closest ever approach to the Sun. On
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Speaker 3: December twenty fourth, twenty twenty four, this remarkable spacecraft soared
14:44
Speaker 3: through the solar atmosphere at a mind boggling speed of
14:47
Speaker 3: four hundred and thirty thousand miles per hour, making it
14:51
Speaker 3: the fastest human made object in history. To put that
14:54
Speaker 3: in perspective, you could circle Earth seventeen times in just
14:58
Speaker 3: one hour at that speed. The probe flew just three
15:01
Speaker 3: point eight million miles above the Sun's surface, which might
15:04
Speaker 3: sound like a safe distance, but consider this, it's flying
15:07
Speaker 3: through temperatures that could melt steel. The spacecraft's specially designed
15:12
Speaker 3: carbon foam shield protects its sensitive instruments while enduring temperatures
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Speaker 3: of up to two thousand, six hundred degrees fahrenheit that's
15:20
Speaker 3: about a quarter as hot as the Sun's surface itself.
15:23
Speaker 3: The mission team received confirmation late on December twenty sixth,
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Speaker 3: when the probe phoned home, so to speak, to report
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Speaker 3: that the spacecraft had survived this daring encounter and is
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Speaker 3: operating perfectly normally. This success marks the beginning of a
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Speaker 3: new phase in solar exploration, as the probe will continue
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Speaker 3: to make similar passes every three months, giving scientists unprecedented
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Speaker 3: access to study our star's most mysterious processes up close.
15:51
Speaker 3: This groundbreaking proximity to the Sun is giving scientists an
15:55
Speaker 3: unprecedented opportunity to unlock some of our star's greatest mysteries.
16:01
Speaker 3: By flying directly through the solar corona, the Sun's superheated
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Speaker 3: outer atmosphere, the Parker Solar Probe is collecting data that's
16:09
Speaker 3: revolutionizing our understanding of solar physics. Previous passes have already
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Speaker 3: challenged what we thought we knew about the Sun. Scientists
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Speaker 3: were surprised to discover that the outer boundary of the
16:19
Speaker 3: corona isn't smooth as previously believed, but actually wrinkled with
16:23
Speaker 3: spikes and valleys. The probe also solved a long standing
16:27
Speaker 3: mystery about strange zigzag patterns in the solar wind called switchbacks,
16:31
Speaker 3: tracing their origin to the Sun's visible surface. The spacecraft
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Speaker 3: is helping us better understand how the corona reaches its
16:39
Speaker 3: puzzling temperature of over a million degrees fahrenheit, far hotter
16:43
Speaker 3: than the Sun's surface. It's also revealing new details about
16:47
Speaker 3: how the solar wind accelerates to incredible speeds as it
16:51
Speaker 3: flows outward through our solar system. These discoveries aren't just
16:54
Speaker 3: academically interesting, they're crucial for understanding how solar activity affects
16:59
Speaker 3: our technologlogy on Earth and our future space exploration efforts.
17:04
Speaker 3: And we're just getting started. Each close pass through the
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Speaker 3: corona gives scientists more time to study these critical processes
17:11
Speaker 3: where they actually happen. The data being collected now will
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Speaker 3: take us closer than ever to understanding the fundamental physics
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Speaker 3: that drive our stars behavior, potentially revolutionizing our ability to
17:23
Speaker 3: predict and prepare for solar events that could impact life
17:27
Speaker 3: on Earth. Next up, big changes are coming for NASA's
17:31
Speaker 3: ambitious Mars sample return mission. The Space Agency is getting
17:36
Speaker 3: ready to announce a major overhaul of the project in
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Speaker 3: early January, and it's all about making the mission more
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Speaker 3: practical and cost effective. The original plan, which would have
17:45
Speaker 3: cost around eleven billion dollars and wouldn't have brought samples
17:48
Speaker 3: back until twenty forty, was deemed too expensive and too
17:51
Speaker 3: slow by NASA Administrator Bill Nelson. That timeline was particularly
17:55
Speaker 3: problematic since NASA aims to have astronauts on Mars by
17:59
Speaker 3: the twenty forties and scientists want to study these samples
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Speaker 3: before sending humans to the Red planet. NASA has been
18:05
Speaker 3: exploring alternative approaches, reaching out to various industry partners, including
18:10
Speaker 3: big names like Blue Origin, SpaceX, and Northrop Grumman. By
18:14
Speaker 3: involving private companies rather than relying solely on NASA centers,
18:18
Speaker 3: they're hoping to significantly speed up the timeline and reduce costs.
18:22
Speaker 3: The mission is crucial because it would be the first
18:24
Speaker 3: time we've ever returned samples from Mars to Earth for
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Speaker 3: detailed study. The stakes are high for this project. The
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Speaker 3: Perseverance Rover is already on Mars collecting samples and special tubes,
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Speaker 3: but getting them back to Earth requires a complex series
18:39
Speaker 3: of steps involving multiple spacecraft and launches. The challenge now
18:43
Speaker 3: is finding a way to complete this ambitious goal without
18:46
Speaker 3: breaking the bank or waiting until twenty forty. With major
18:49
Speaker 3: briefings already underway, we should know soon what this reimagined
18:53
Speaker 3: Mars sample return mission will look like. And that's it
18:57
Speaker 3: for me for this episode of Space Nuts. I'm Anna,
19:00
Speaker 3: and I've thoroughly enjoyed sharing these incredible developments with you today,
19:04
Speaker 3: from record breaking solar encounters to the evolving plans for
19:08
Speaker 3: bringing pieces of Mars back to Earth. It's an exciting
19:11
Speaker 3: time for space science. Don't forget to visit Astronomy Daily
19:14
Speaker 3: dot io for your daily fix of space and astronomy
19:17
Speaker 3: news updates. We're constantly updating the site with the latest discoveries,
19:21
Speaker 3: mission updates, and cosmic wonders until our next adventure through
19:25
Speaker 3: the Cosmos. Keep looking up and stay curious about the
19:28
Speaker 3: mysteries that surround us in space a space sis.
19:31
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