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STSE #58: Service Dog Training w/ Sunny Bravo, Part 2 · Sometimes There's Side Eye

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Welcome to Sometimes There's Side Eye, a podcast about two
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friends having real and unfiltered conversations about
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dogs and people listen as we talk about our lives with dogs,
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training, behavior, share some laughs and a whole lot of
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banter. I'm Heather.
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And I'm Christy. Hey everyone, if you're just
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tuning in with us and you're about to listen to Episode 58,
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but you haven't yet listened to Episode 57 Part 1 with Sunny
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Bravo, please go back and start there and then come back and
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join us here for Episode 58. Thanks for listening.
0:47
When somebody is considering getting a service dock, what
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characteristics should they be looking for in in that service
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dock? Because I'm going to be honest,
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I have, I have a friend, her husband is in a wheelchair due
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to a spinal cord injury. They wanted a service dog for
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their, for him. And they said, you know,
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sometimes he falls out of his wheelchair and then the
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wheelchair rolls away from him and then it's very difficult for
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him to crawl over and get it. And so sometimes he just lays
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there and waits for somebody to come home.
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So he said. I think I'd like a dog that can.
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Pull. Things naturally, so they went
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with a a Husky and growing up with Huskies, you know what a
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great decision that was. So he never made it to service
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dog level, although he can open doors and he did one time pull
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his owner out of the wheelchair face first to chase a rabbit, a
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Bunny rabbit. Opposite of what we're all.
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Calling for, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
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So he was maybe not the best fit.
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Yeah, a service dog. So what should people be looking
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for? I love that you brought up that
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they got a Husky. There are what people call
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unicorns in breeds so I do know personally a couple of working
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Siberian Huskies, Malamute, lots of other breeds.
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Like a Dutch shepherd. Not that she's a Unicorn.
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We're still working through her through her teenage face.
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I know a lot of unicorns within breeds that are not typically
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thought of as working service dogs or suitable for being a
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working service dog. Those are the breeds that were
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created for a variety of other purposes.
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Typically they're not either. They're not the most biddable,
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meaning they were bred to think on their own and not needing to
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quote UN quote, please their handler.
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And other times we get labs and goldens that are like, that's
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nice. I don't care about you.
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So there's unicorns within all of the braids for the better and
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for the worse. I think the biggest thing to go
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for when you're looking for a service deck, if you're starting
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off with a puppy from a breeder that is ethical and reputable
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and breeding for all the right reasons, I think is to be
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upfront with that breeder. So with that being said, a lot
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of breeders, if you tell them that you're looking for a
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service dog prospect, they will not sell because so many people
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puppy foot and they go through dogs and they don't keep them
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and then they don't return them to the breeder even if there's
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a. Oh, I get what you're saying
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because if the dog washes out then they absolutely must have a
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service dog. And so if the if the perspective
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puppy washes out and isn't that right match.
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Oh that I had never thought about that, but it.
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Makes. I I can see it from both sides,
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I will say that. Absolutely, yeah.
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But if you are buying a puppy from a reputable breeder and you
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have a contract and the dog washes out, then it is typically
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your contract reads that that dog will go back to the breeder.
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Yes, yeah. Or unless you and the breeder
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decide to yes, rehome it correctly.
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So that's what happened with mine and Camo's breeder who is,
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I love her so much. I love her so much.
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I was very upfront with her that I was looking for a potential
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replacement for chrysanthemum, but that I also wanted to do
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sports with with this puppy. And I was very upfront with her
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and said if for whatever reason she does not work out or if she
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does all the things that I need her to do, but she doesn't enjoy
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it, I'm going to keep her. She's got a forever home with me
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whether she's a service dog or not.
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So that's if you go with a reputable breeder, you want to
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make sure that they know that you're what you're looking for
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in this puppy because you want to make sure that if you're
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going for a breed that is more suitable for service work,
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typically labs, golden retrievers.
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Then there's the debate on whether it's a border collie or
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a rough collie. If German Shepherd's in there,
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it's kind of a little toss up here and there, but we.
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Have some Rottweilers in there now and it.
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Gets we? Yes, yes you do.
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Yes, I know of two Rottweilers that are fabulous, fabulous
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service dog. So I think regardless of the
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breed you go with, you want to make sure that that puppy has
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some kind of drive, that it works for you and your
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lifestyle. Meaning if you don't like
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slobbery fingers, you may not want a puppy that's like super
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highly food driven and only food driven.
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If you're OK with throwing treats instead of putting it
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hand to mouth, you might want to get a puppy that is OK sniffing
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and searching the ground for that treat so you don't have
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those slabbery fingers. If you get a puppy that has no
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food drive and has a good toy drive, that could work for a lot
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of behavior training and and task training.
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You just gotta be creative with it possibly later on.
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But if you get a puppy that has zero interest in food, doesn't
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care about toys, and doesn't really have any handler focus,
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that's. An uphill battle.
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Pass Yep, you should probably pass on that puppy and an uphill
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battle. It is very difficult to find a
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breeder that will be OK with you hiring an outside trainer to go
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in and test these puppies. I have seen a lot of breeders
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say no, no, my trainer already assessed them.
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This puppy is fabulous. And so I've asked my clients,
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OK, ask them to send you a video doing certain exercises and the
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Breeders won't. And so if there's any kind of
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red flags, stay away. Then there's the puppies that
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are coming from rescuer shelters.
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When they're a little younger, it can be a better option.
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Meaning if they're in that 8 to 16 week mark, it can be a better
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possibility than if you get a dog that's in its teen phase or
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the I don't want it anymore. Phase or age?
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Just because there's less likelihood that they've gone
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through some kind of trauma that could be a potential for fallout
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later on in training when you've already become attached to this
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dog. There's also people that get
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adult dogs from shelters and rescues and like Jackson, turn
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out amazing and perfect for that person's need.
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And then there's some that they start working the dog from the
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shelter within a week of bringing them home without
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giving this dog time to decompress.
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And so those dogs a lot of times don't turn out because they
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weren't even given an opportunity to decompress.
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And so the biggest thing is if you're getting a puppy, make
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sure it's evaluated and assessed by a person that knows what
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they're doing, a professional trainer that knows what to look
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for, preferably a service trainer.
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And if you're getting it from a shelter, same thing.
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See if a trainer will go out and assess a puppy from an either a
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foster home or or a shelter. I feel like although the stakes
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are so much higher when you're looking for a service dog
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prospect, young, old, whatever age, a lot of the guidance that
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you just gave is what people should abide by just when
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they're looking for a dog. So you, you really want to take
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best practices when thinking about your future dog.
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And then if it is a dog that you need to utilize in service work,
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that you are then putting that on top of the general foundation
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of what you're looking for in a dog and sort of work up from
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there. And I wish, I wish that more
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people utilized good dog trainers when they were thinking
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about their next dog. And I want to normalize that.
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100% yeah, so much to kind of round out what to look for.
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People need to keep in mind if they have small children in the
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home a herding breed may not be best whether that's a pet or a
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service dog. So they need to keep that breeds
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characteristics and instincts and genetics in mind with who
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they live with, where they frequent, again, just as a pet
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owner or as a service dog handler.
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And then what they need that dog to do because like you, you have
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your babies asleep on the couch right now, they're OK kind of
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hanging out. If somebody gets a border collie
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and is more of a homebody person, maybe they can't
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physically get out to exercise their dog or give their dog
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walks. May not be the best match of
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greed. So greed selection is another
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huge, huge thing. Absolutely.
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And I, I will also say, so Jackson before when I was just
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fostering him and not not adopting him, only like two or
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three weeks into fostering him, they asked if I thought he would
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be a good perspective for a service stock.
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And I said yes because at the time I did think he was much
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more social with people than he actually is.
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But he's very task or like he loves to do tasks, He loves
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routine. And I thought he's pretty smart.
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He's like a handful, but he's smart.
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So I think he could do it. But also the rescue asked me 3
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weeks into having a one year old dog.
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I I am not, I'm not certified in this.
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I don't know about the dog trainer.
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You just play one on TVI just hang out with dogs.
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So also keep that in mind like the rescues don't know what all
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goes into this unless you're unless that's their deal.
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Like there are some rescues that pull specific dogs because
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that's what they do. Yeah.
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But if you're just going to your average rescue, like know that
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it's someone like me who's like, well, yeah, maybe.
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I think it seems like a good one.
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Definitely. It seems like you should get out
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of my house soon. Yes.
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Well, I wasn't like. OK, you say that, but I was
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thinking like their primary purpose is move dogs, homeless
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dogs into homes. So like, and I'm not that's not
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a cut on anybody. That's just reality.
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And so you kind of have to be like, OK, if I'm looking for
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service dog prospect, who's my advocate, who's looking out for
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me to make sure that I'm not getting emotional about it,
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which is important. And that I have somebody looking
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out for my best interests in this dog who is going to be an
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integral part of my existence going forward.
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And like, who best to do that? But somebody who actually is
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educated on dog training and service dogs.
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Yeah, yes. And I definitely would have
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welcomed a trainer into and I told the rescue, I, I mean, I
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don't know a ton about what this person needs, but it does seem
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like this dog could be trained to do top.
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But also like, yeah, bring it. Bring somebody with you to eat
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the dog that is an expert. There you go.
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Yeah, that's very true. Very true.
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So it sounds like age can vary depending on the situation.
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Depending on the dog, I think that that's probably.
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And budget and. Oh, very good.
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Point and budget and budget, yeah.
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Very good point, yeah. So like a county has pre
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adoption days and some people can't maybe afford a 2 or $3000
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dog cost upfront and they really need something to help them.
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And so that is what fits in their budget as long as they
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keep in mind there's food costs and medical care and you know,
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all the other things. But budget is a huge part of it
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for a lot of people. Yeah, absolutely.
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It's a very good point. So are there specific tools that
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you use in training a service dog?
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And I feel like that's just like an open-ended question, but here
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we go. Yes.
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So I'll speak for myself. First perfect.
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I, I use Food First and foremost.
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I use, well, that's a lot. I use voice movement.
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And yes, for me personally. So if I'm, I've had puppies here
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as young as eight weeks to do just foundations and then for
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some to just start that would hopefully be going into service
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deputies, some just put some some, but I've had pups young as
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young as eight weeks here and I don't unless the the owner wants
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a collar on their puppy. I don't really put a collar on
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their puppy when they're with me here at my home.
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And so the three tools that I use are my voice, my movement to
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get the puppy to move with me and food.
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I do not put a leash on that puppy because if I can't go and
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quote control that puppy with my energy and my enthusiasm, that
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puppy's not going to care about me whether there's a leash
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attached or not. It doesn't matter what you put
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around that dog's neck, back, hips, that puppy doesn't care
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about you. So I try to make myself as
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exciting as possible by using movement and excited voice and
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intonations and a variety of food and then using food
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movement, meaning I throw behind the dog, I throw to the side of
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the dog to encourage that puppy to engage with me.
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All I'm looking for initially is just engagement.
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And so I don't really use anything other than those three
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things. Once the puppy is past that
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point and is willing to engage with me pretty regularly, I will
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then use leashes dragging to just add some weight onto that
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collar harness, whichever 1 the the handler or owner prefers.
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I try to encourage harnesses because I prefer to work on a
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harness with whatever age dog and teach them leash pressure.
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Not in a punishing way where it's painful for the dog
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physically, but in A cause and effect way.
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Meaning if you put pressure on, I'm going to try and encourage
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you to come back with me and then we're going to both for go
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forward together. And then if there's pressure,
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you're going to come back towards me and then we'll both
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go forward together. So it can be a little bit
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repetitive initially, but I have worked with so many puppies that
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when they in excitement hit the end of the leash, they
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immediately look at me like I'm, I'm coming right back.
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I'm so sorry. I don't know what happened.
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And so it's instead of a, a look of fear or not even looking at
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me, it's a, oh, should I come back and do a hand touch or are
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you wanting me to circle around you?
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Are we, are we doing, what are we doing?
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So I'll use a harness primarily. And then as teens and adult dogs
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or as they age into those older, if it's for service dog
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training, it may be a harness collar, a leash.
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And there may be a gentle leader added.
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If the person has mobility issues with camo.
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She I don't know all side of that with clients.
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I only use the collar or harness for my clients.
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I will not work with clients that want to use an E collar
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because I personally don't find it necessary.
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When I first started out when I was transitioning from
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aggression to puppy cases, I had a client that had a deaf dog and
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he had been using a vibrate collar just to get the dog's
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attention. So we transitioned from using
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that to a laser beam, which I know is also.
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Well, no. It depends on how you use it.
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It can be a very useful tool if you are careful.
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So this dog was a Beagle. He was deaf.
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Oh my. Lord, he was not obsessive with
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the laser light. He knew the laser light meant
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come touch my hand and get food. So it we were able to take it
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off of the the vibrate collar. But I feel that you should and
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I'm getting to that point with camo.
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It's going to be a while. She's just barely going to turn
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2 but I feel a I'm probably going to get so much hate for
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this but I don't really care. I feel that if you have a fully
16:54
trained service dog, you should be able to go out and if you've
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done the relationship correctly and you've done the training
17:02
correctly, you should be able to go out and have forgotten your
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leash, your collar, your harness, your treats, your toys,
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and it just be you and your dog. If your dog is naked next to you
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and you have an episode, can your dog task?
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Because if you're relying on any tool, treats included, toys
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included, movement included, exciting voice, you don't have
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any of those. If you're having any kind of
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episode, you can't ask those. Is your dog going to work for
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you and is your dog going to remain engaged with you and not
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distracted by the environment? That's where I personally stand.
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And it's a high bar. I, I would say you would, you
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would agree with that statement. I mean, that's a high bar.
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It's a very high bar. Yeah.
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Chrystanthemum has been trained to that level.
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She's starting to go downhill now because she's 9 and.
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Well, she's 9, so every every girl needs to retire.
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Yeah, but. In her prime, I will.
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I want to say I think she was four or five years old.
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We were out camping. I had let her out to go potty
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off leash because we were in our campsite and she had an
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excellent recall and a Bunny ran by and I said don't even think
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about it. And she looked at me and she
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said OK. And she sat right down.
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That dog didn't even have a collar on because we were out
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for a quick body break. So that is kind of the level
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that people should at least aspire to get to is can you work
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naked with nothing other than you and your dog's relationship?
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That's it. It's a lot.
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It's a lot. That's a lot.
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And, and I, I would think too, I like how you said that is
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something to aspire to. You know, there are a lot of,
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there's a lot of ingredients in the sauce to make that because
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you have to have the right dog. You have to have a trainer who
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has the ability, you have to have certain abilities to be
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able to carry through on everything.
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You have to have the dog's genetics.
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You have to, I mean, there's like so many things that go into
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that. But if if that is the bar that
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you have set that at least you know what you're working
19:11
towards. Yeah, that and not only does the
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dog part has so many ingredients, but the human end
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has to have so many. So and and it's not even to say
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that somebody that is immobile cannot get to that level.
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It's just how much are you willing to put that work in and
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how much patience do you have? And do you know when you and
19:33
your dog need a break from that training session?
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Because I see both people and trainers working these dogs for
19:39
an hour to two hours at a time every day.
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And then the dog goes back in the crate and they're not
19:44
engaged with and allowed to just be a dog.
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And then I see people that allow their dog 2 minutes of training
19:51
a day and have the best relationship with these dogs and
19:54
they're allowed to just be silly little cuckoo banana heads the
19:57
rest of the day and their relationship is incredible.
20:01
So it just really depends on how much time and effort you're
20:04
willing to put into your relationship with the dog, how
20:07
much time and effort into the training with the dog and
20:11
getting the dog that suits your lifestyle.
20:15
The right dog. Do what you need that dog to do.
20:18
Yeah. Yeah.
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And also to say again, it's to aspire to that.
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So if you see a handler team out and maybe they are not at that
20:29
level, that doesn't mean that they're not working towards that
20:32
level. That's something to aspire to.
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And dogs just like people have bad days too.
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And so if you like are like that seems that team seems to be
20:44
struggling. They might be, they really might
20:47
have put in a lot of work, but maybe today is not the day to
20:51
watch them because it is a struggle bus day. 100% and and
20:57
that with all of that being said, I am not in any way shape
21:02
or form trying to say that I am better than anyone or perfect.
21:07
Chamomile and I are on the struggle bus right now and has
21:11
been for about the last three months.
21:12
So I have slowed her training in public way way down and I'm just
21:18
letting her be a teenage puppy. We do maybe 2 outings a month
21:23
for public access and we only do it in settings that I know she
21:27
is 100% solid. So we just did our first
21:31
restaurant yesterday in like 6 months because she struggles
21:36
hard in restaurants. She thinks being under the table
21:39
and people approaching our our wait staff approaching to ask
21:43
for refills or if the food is delicious.
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She finds that very unnerving, being underneath and kind of
21:50
almost cornered. And so we've worked really hard
21:53
on that, on pet friendly patios and she nailed it yesterday.
21:56
She was great. I'm not going to go work her for
21:59
another two weeks because I want that to be a very long lasting
22:02
impression, but I feel that that's where some dogs struggle
22:06
with something and the handlers try to work through it almost
22:10
too hard and too fast. Over immerse.
22:13
Yeah, hyper focus on that. Yeah, and it's like, I don't
22:17
know, work the other direction, work on something that's super
22:21
fun. We did Fast Cat a couple weeks
22:23
ago. She had a week break.
22:25
We did the zoo and a restaurant and and that was it.
22:27
And I took her for a very successful outing where it
22:30
physically tired her out at walking at the zoo.
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And then we went and had pizza at a fairly empty restaurant and
22:36
we came home and she's been chilling all day today.
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So it's definitely not that we are not going through struggles
22:42
ourselves. I don't know honestly, that she
22:44
will ever reach what Chrysanthemum was.
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I think she'll get close, but I and no dogs are the same.
22:51
She'll never get to be what Chrysanthemum was, but she'll be
22:54
great in her own right. And if she doesn't want to be a
22:56
service dog, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna push her to be a
22:59
service dog. So I.
23:01
I think it's really interesting that we talked about like the
23:05
right dog and everything. And and this is not to take
23:08
anything away from camo, but I think the general public would
23:11
think, Oh, of course, of course a shepherd would be a great
23:15
service dog and perfect and then a standard poodle.
23:18
What? And that right there just says
23:21
to you, just because you think you know, doesn't mean that it's
23:25
going to come. Christy's making a face at me.
23:27
She doesn't. No, I agree with you, but I'm
23:30
thinking about. Well, service dogs I've come
23:33
across, yeah, I've actually come across quite a few standard
23:37
poodles. I.
23:38
Think standard poodles are amazing, but like the general
23:41
public does not think, oh, let me get a standard poodle and
23:44
have them be a working dog. They don't.
23:45
I I've seen so many amazing standard poodles do sports and
23:50
all sorts of things. So it doesn't surprise me at
23:53
all. But I just meant from like a
23:54
general public standpoint. People are not going to be like,
23:57
oh, let me pick a golden retriever or a standard poodle.
24:01
You know, they're always going to go that golden way.
24:03
And it's like that might not be the right thing.
24:06
Yeah. Sunny, have you ever been hired
24:12
to train a service dog that you recommended to discontinue their
24:17
training? Yes, twice, same person.
24:20
Can we hear about it? Sure.
24:23
I won't say genders, just to keep it neutral, and I won't say
24:25
breed. The same person hired me for
24:28
training for their second service dog.
24:31
Their first service dog had gotten attacked and was having a
24:34
difficult time kind of reintegrating back into public
24:38
around other dogs that it saw. And so their second dog that
24:43
they brought in had been evaluated by a trainer deemed as
24:48
top notch. And this dog struggled heavily
24:52
with separation anxiety, struggled happily with being in
24:55
the crate. And so that that was something
24:59
that they did not want to work on.
25:01
And so the anxiety from the dog kind of kept building because
25:05
they were left alone while this person went to work.
25:10
And it started out just in their home.
25:13
And it then led to there was some destruction happening and
25:17
going on. And so it led to a specific
25:19
heavy duty crate brands Mount Nimmed.
25:23
So like, you know, for a very anxious dog and the dog injured
25:28
itself on its teeth or its teeth got injured on the on the crate
25:32
and ended up breaking out of said crate.
25:35
No, yes. And they wanted to continue
25:41
trying to work in public. The dog was decent in public
25:46
tasks were were OK in the home. It was still pretty young.
25:50
Definitely before a year and a half.
25:51
I want to say it was maybe a year or so, a year of age and
25:55
the biggest thing that the dog struggled with in public was
25:59
reactivity to other dog. But I don't personally feel that
26:04
it was the dog's fault. Meaning I repetitively told said
26:12
owner, don't let your dog focus on the other dogs.
26:17
Let them look for 2/3 seconds. Redirect I was ignored and the
26:23
rectivity kept building and building and building until
26:25
there were major explosions rearing up on hind legs.
26:30
They said this is not going to work, not only because the dog
26:33
is struggling with some big feelings, but you're not
26:35
listening to. Me which makes you not a match
26:39
as a trainer at that point. Yeah, no, I was.
26:43
I have a very hard time, not with people pleasing, but with
26:47
really wanting a person with disabilities to succeed and
26:52
really wanting to help the dog that's struggling with whatever
26:56
I really want to help them. And so, yeah, they did not take
27:01
the dog out of public access. OK, They did.
27:06
Long story short, they got another dog, same issues
27:10
essentially, also evaluated by a different trainer, different
27:17
breed, different trainer, but dog struggled with the same
27:20
issues. And that's when I said, OK, it
27:22
is not the dogs. Yeah, something's.
27:25
Yeah, something's not meshing here.
27:28
Yeah. And that was, that's probably
27:30
the one that it wasn't anything that the dog could have been
27:34
fixed from because it was the person not wanting to put in the
27:38
effort. And so that one, that one hurt
27:41
hard because I felt horrible for the dogs because they kept all
27:45
three dogs. And so the initial dog started
27:48
getting like the other two and it's just sad situation for all
27:52
three pups. And then they don't have their
27:55
service. Like that's just terrible all
27:57
the way around. Oh no.
27:59
They do. They got a fourth one.
28:01
No, no, they're just OK The two back and forth OK.
28:07
If they know that they're not going into a dog heavy
28:10
environment, they'll take the the second one.
28:13
If they know that they're going into an environment that is
28:16
likely to have more dogs, they'll take the third one.
28:20
So. Wow.
28:23
Interesting. OK.
28:25
And I've had to fire people that wanted to hire me.
28:28
So not even really fired, I just didn't accept the job because
28:32
they needed to take their dog with him for a family, you know,
28:35
all the good things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:38
Which, I mean, that's just not. That's not what we're there for.
28:42
Yeah, yeah. We want to make sure that
28:44
people, whomever they are that need a service dog have access
28:50
to be able to have that service dog.
28:52
And that's, it's not for me to judge, right?
28:57
But we also want to be respectful of that line and
29:01
making sure that if we say we need it, that we really do need
29:05
it. Yeah, well, these people were
29:07
upfront and said they don't have disabilities, they just don't
29:10
want to pay. No, no, they were.
29:11
They were very forthcoming. OK, well I can respect the
29:15
honesty. Yeah, I I was had no problem
29:19
saying no to. Yeah, OK.
29:21
Fair enough. Yeah.
29:25
I don't know. I, I am somebody who will defend
29:28
my friends at all costs. Yeah.
29:31
And it becomes this defense mechanism of like, hey, I need
29:35
to defend my friends who actually need this.
29:38
Yeah. And should be allowed to have
29:40
this without any issues. Yeah.
29:43
Like, they shouldn't be second guessed.
29:45
They shouldn't have dogs attacking their service dog in
29:48
public because another dog isn't trained but has a badge, you
29:52
know? And I think that's where, like,
29:54
that's why Heather and I are so passionate about it.
29:57
And we've talked about it on a couple episodes now because we
30:01
don't want our friends who have that access and need that access
30:05
to have a hard time with it. Yeah.
30:08
Yeah, because. It's part of what makes you be
30:11
able to live life. Yeah, yeah.
30:14
Now that my husband works from home a whole lot more, I utilize
30:19
him a lot, especially in this transition period where I know
30:23
chrysanthemum can't do all day. I took her to the zoo last week
30:26
and she looked at me like, are you kidding me?
30:27
You want me to be out here for six hours?
30:29
Are you fucking kidding me? I am almost nine years old.
30:31
Take Me Home. So she's starting to be where
30:34
more than like four or five hours.
30:36
She's starting to get tired. And I and I understand that.
30:39
And so on the times where I know it's going to be hard for her,
30:44
or if it's going to be too hot or too cold, I'll leave her.
30:47
And if I know it's not an easy environment for Camel or she's
30:50
been on one of her many rest breaks.
30:53
Yeah, if. My, if my husband's able to, I
30:56
just utilize my husband or a family member or friend because
31:00
I'm not going to force my almost 9 year old girl to deal with it
31:04
and suck it up And I'm not going to push my puppy into a
31:06
situation that she's not ready for and make her more scared of,
31:09
you know, that environment or situation.
31:11
So I, I know coping mechanisms for certain things that I have,
31:18
but other things I, there isn't a coping mechanism because it's
31:22
a physical issue. There's not really an, an
31:26
alternative for it aside from like another human being.
31:29
And so it can definitely be a struggle though, when you see,
31:34
so like, for example, we were at the zoo and I was meeting my
31:37
friend there yesterday and I had camel and it was she had a great
31:40
day, but we were leaving we there, they have those pillars
31:45
out in front of the Phoenix Zoo. And so we had the dogs get on
31:48
the pillars and we were taking pictures of them and we still
31:50
had a hold of their leash. But this woman and I think maybe
31:53
her mom or older sister came over and we're just just
31:57
watching. They were at a respectable
31:58
distance away. They weren't taking photos or
32:01
anything. And then as we're just letting
32:04
the dogs kind of let out some energy and be a little bit more
32:06
silly because we had finished the zoo, they go, I wish I could
32:10
have brought my dog with me. And I said, oh, I said, just so
32:13
you know, this is this is only service dogs.
32:15
And now she goes, I don't care if I want my dog here, I'm going
32:19
to bring. And I said, well, good luck
32:20
getting past the Park Rangers here.
32:21
I said, because they are very stringent.
32:23
And I said, this is one of the most.
32:25
I didn't say this. And I'm telling you guys, that
32:26
is one of the best places in Arizona to go where you pretty
32:31
much don't have to worry about dogs that are being passed off
32:34
as service dogs because those Park Rangers have seen so many
32:37
legitimate teams pass through that they know the behavior to
32:41
look for and they know the behavior That is a little bit
32:43
red flag. But yeah, so people just wanting
32:46
to bring their dogs there because they see somebody else
32:48
with a dog, I've learned not to get angry at it.
32:51
I used to get so angry before and I was like, why am I
32:54
expelling all this energy on these random strangers?
32:56
That, I don't know. It doesn't affect their life one
32:59
bit if we're angry at them. Oh, that's so hard.
33:06
That's really hard. I I do agree with Christy.
33:09
I think an element to it is when you have somebody that you care
33:13
about in your life and, and you know they're affected by it,
33:16
then it does you become like this champion of that thing for
33:19
them, right. And our friends, they have had
33:23
Cindy has had a service dog attacked and it's, you know, had
33:28
major impact on how she was able to live her life.
33:31
And it it just like take that moment to think you just wanting
33:35
to take Fluffy to the store with you could make it that someone
33:40
with their service dog can't go anywhere for six months because
33:46
their dog is messed up. Yeah, Chrysanthemum was bit when
33:50
she was a year and a half old by a black Great Dane.
33:55
She was then bit two more times, separate times, different years
34:00
by other black Great Danes. And I, I don't know if Black
34:07
Great Danes just don't like my dog or what it is, but she is a
34:13
Unicorn in the sense that she has no ill will towards any dog.
34:18
Other Black Great Danes that that are that, you know, that
34:21
have friends that have black Great Danes.
34:23
And she's one of the very few lucky dogs that has been able to
34:26
recover and bounce back very quickly.
34:29
I can tell you right now if Camel was attacked, I don't know
34:32
that she would get to the point where she could work in public.
34:36
She's just. Instead of sensitive dog and so
34:39
incredibly different than camel or than chrysanthemum that yeah,
34:42
the, the, the people bringing their pets.
34:45
And then they might just get a fine.
34:47
If that. And we're stuck with the vet
34:50
bills, possibly the eater specialist bills, any actual
34:55
veterinary treatment. The trauma to us losing our
34:59
working partner that allows us to have, you know, independence
35:02
outside of the home. And I think people just really
35:04
don't think about it. And, and again, it's you don't
35:08
know what you don't know. And I just wish there was kind
35:11
of a you turn 18, you get your driver's license.
35:13
We're also going to put you through a service animal
35:15
portion. Here's what life is like.
35:20
Can we have like an education program somehow, some way to
35:23
like teach people and just have them think about it a little
35:26
bit, just a little like. In high school like driver's Ed
35:28
and service animal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:34
It's, there are some people that will go to elementary schools
35:39
and high schools and kind of talk to students.
35:41
I've done that full of six or seven times in the last few
35:45
years, but it's not the kids. Yeah.
35:49
The adults, right? So yeah, it's hard.
35:53
I'm thinking if we can get them trained early, then they'll grow
35:57
up into adults who hopefully remain trained like our dog
36:01
would train them as puppies and we hope it continues through to
36:04
adults. When we used to do the the anti
36:09
dog fighting education, I used to always say I don't want the
36:12
adults give me the kids. Let me plant the seeds.
36:15
Let me plant the seeds there because you never know when a
36:19
little water's gonna come down and it's gonna make an
36:22
impression, you know? So yeah.
36:25
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
36:27
Kids are almost never the offenders of the drive by
36:30
Pettings. It's always the adults.
36:31
Yeah. And if it is, I believe that.
36:33
They're like under three years old.
36:35
They don't, they don't know. Yeah, yeah, the.
36:38
Baby, is there anything else that is important in regards to
36:41
service dogs or their training that you want to make sure that
36:44
we mention? Yes.
36:46
I think something that's not really thought about is that
36:49
while dog savvy people understand that a service dog is
36:54
typically for just one person, there are some families that
36:57
utilize that same service dog for a parent and child or
37:02
husband and wife. And while there's no law against
37:05
that, I think ethically and morally we need to look at is
37:08
that burning the dog out too fast to where, yes, it might
37:13
work for two or more people in the home or possibly even two
37:16
children in the home. But are we overworking the dog
37:19
to the point where they're not getting any time to be a dog?
37:23
And two, are we working the dogs so much that instead of having a
37:27
dog that could work for you for seven to nine years, depending
37:30
on them and and the lifestyle that they're living, are we
37:35
creating a dog that's only able to work for two to three years
37:37
because of burnout? And are you willing to take on
37:40
that potential stress and expense on bringing another dog
37:46
in? So a lot of that's not the norm
37:49
that I see people using one service dog for two people in
37:52
the home, but some people do. And I think the other thing that
37:58
people that are just getting into service dogs is do you have
38:01
a pet dog in the home? Because some organizations will
38:07
not provide you a service dog, whether it's at cost or free of
38:12
charge. If you have any other animals in
38:14
the home, they might if there's a cat or two.
38:16
But if there's other dogs in home, there's a lot of
38:18
organizations that will not give you a service dog.
38:22
Again, whether you've paid for it or it's given to you.
38:24
If somebody has pet dogs or possibly a retired or washed
38:29
service dog in the home and they're bringing a puppy or
38:32
teenage or adult dog into the home to be their service dog,
38:35
there needs to be separation. There needs to be some sort of
38:40
OK, now it's time to play with your furry brothers and sisters
38:43
and now it's time with the human.
38:46
I find that people get really frustrated when they have a
38:52
multi dog household or multi animal household, but primarily
38:55
multi dog household. And one of those is a service
38:58
dog or service dog in training. Because the dog doesn't care as
39:02
much about the human as dogs that are only dogs.
39:05
And that is because the value has been spent and created with
39:08
the other dogs or animals in the home.
39:11
And then the human gets frustrated and they're saying
39:13
the dog doesn't want to work or can't focus in public.
39:17
And they need to remember that they have to build that value in
39:20
the relationship whether there is one dog in the home or seven
39:23
dogs in the home. If you are not making yourself
39:27
exciting and important and valuable to that dog, might as
39:32
well just have brought another pet into your home.
39:34
And that is a huge, huge one. And it's not that they can't
39:38
play with their furry siblings. There has to be some kind of
39:41
separation between a verbal cue or phrase and bonding with them
39:47
and then bonding with the human in and outside of the home.
39:50
I think a lot of people don't even think about that.
39:54
Yeah, that makes sense to me. Yeah.
39:57
But I'm also someone who treats a nude puppy like a full time
40:00
job because I want to bond with them and so.
40:03
Even if it takes a year, Yeah. Look, some relationships are
40:07
harder than others, Christy. Yeah, I'm just saying.
40:15
I spoke very nicely about her today.
40:18
She's a good girl. She's getting there anyway.
40:24
Well I have just enjoyed this so much.
40:28
Yes. I've learned so much too.
40:31
I know. Thanks.
40:32
I'm glad we appreciate you coming on and we appreciate you
40:36
taking the time. Yeah.
40:37
My pleasure, thank you for having me.
40:39
Absolutely. If you've enjoyed this episode,
40:43
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40:48
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40:54
Talk to you next time.