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How Bioelectricity Shapes Skin Health with David Suzuki of Bio-Therapeutic · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Today's episode we're going to be really focusing on devices and understanding the context of using devices when it comes to your skin health, understanding their potential.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's an entire side, I feel, of like skin care and aesthetics that's it really merges with at-home devices, and we don't really get to hear about it or learn about that space.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, please welcome uh David Suzuki, who's the founder and CEO of Biot Therapeutics.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, David.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: So excited to host you.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're excited to be here with you.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm excited to dive in because I know that, you know, like I just said, the space is very, very uh difficult to understand.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think also for like not only consumers, but professionals also in terms of how to incorporate devices into your practice, you know, like what we're teaching.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would love to dive into that, but I really want to start with you and like where did biotherapeutics begin?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of like walk us down memory lane, if you don't mind.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, no problem.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: So uh this is a second, we're a second generation um FDA registered medical device manufacturer.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we were started in the 70s.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: My father founded uh biotherapeutic.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: He was an absolutely amazing, one-of-a-kind, brilliant electrical engineer.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um, he actually spent uh a lot of his early life um in Boeing.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so he was recruited directly out of the military to work for the Boeing company, specifically on their missile systems, if you can believe that.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: So he's working on the Minuteman missile, the cruise missile, and those kinds of things.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I guess his fascination really was um electricity, of course, being an electrical engineer, but the electrical system of the human body, and that's uh a lot of us don't really think about that when we think about the human body, that it's actually electric.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: But everything that we do and every function in the human body is is powered by cellular energy, but the frequencies um are what the commands are, so to speak, to all the appendages and the organs and everything else that basically happens in the human body.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So he was really um intrigued with that.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: And his goal, I guess in short, was to be able to create a technology, um, to create protocols, um, to create um services, treatments, both with medical and skincare, um, that could communicate to the electrical system of the human body to help upregulate what it's already masterfully designed to do.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's really, really cool.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's like music to my ears.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're I you're probably talking to like, you know, one of the biggest geeks that believes in that and understands the honestly, I could not, I could not agree more with everything you just said.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to dive into that because you know what's crazy?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: No one even talks about like even receptor potentials and stuff.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like no one goes into the biophysics of any of it.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a crazy cool world, it's a crazy cool science, you know, category.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's very exciting.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what was the first, what was the first device that he came up with or that really, you know, kind of sparked the company?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's kind of funny that you say that.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um back in the back in the day in the 70s, my my father was so far um ahead of his time and he was so dialed into age management, but wellness, and also um medical services, treatments, ailments, and and he wanted his real his role goal was to try to um address them in a more natural, organic way that worked in harmony with the human body versus, let's say, a pharmaceutical versus a surgery uh versus something that was just foreign or damaging to the human body, which most things that we we take in these industries specifically uh with medical applications, usually you're you're cutting or you're damaging to hopefully get a better result afterwards.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so he wanted to create something that just absolutely completely harmonized uh with the human body.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: And as a result, he came up with what we call now frequency-specific microcurrent that focuses.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if there's one thing it focuses on, it does a ton of things.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing it focuses on is the stimulation of the mitochondria.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've come up with frequencies and a way to basically be able to permeate the cell membrane and um energize, so to speak, plug in that mitochondria.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: And the mitochondria, as you likely know, is really where the epicenter is for all of our cellular energy in the form of ATP.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really what our goal was from the beginning.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so his first technology was microcurrent.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's still what we focus, and it's our specialty even today, um, this many years, more than 50 years later.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: But um, his original focus really was more for sports injury.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: He was a football player um all through his youth and all the way through through college at the University of Washington.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um, he had a lot of little tweaks and knee things, back things, and all these other sorts of things.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um, he was um uh opposed to surgery, wasn't really a huge fan of westernized medicine, probably because of our Japanese background a little bit, you know.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um, he um also just felt like there had to be a better way to be able to approach this.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so what his goal was to create something that could increase cellular energy, which which is where all the healing potential comes from, decrease inflammation, which we we hit that one out of the park as well.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: And if we could achieve those two things just by themselves, then the body is already designed to um to do its thing.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I could I that exactly, and you know what's what's really neat about this, you brought up all share an example with you, equestrian data is so strong in this space.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we I don't know why we don't tap into that more because when it comes to like, for example, healing tendons and stuff, they have crazy good data in horses where it's like full recovery, like it's like not even you know what I mean, and there's like no scarring.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the interesting part is that little bit of electricity, like really honing in on that, and the application for you know, whatever period of time, even with like simple ingredients that are just like regenerative ingredients, has shown crazy, like just amazing, amazing data.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that's very exciting what you're saying, you know.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, big humans are are completely obviously electrical and very reactive um to um the right frequencies, but it is interesting that you say that because um large animals, all animals, but large animals, specifically horses and also dogs are very, very uh reactive to the appropriate frequencies, then the healing capabilities are amazing.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's endless, endless.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, it's it's interesting.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, with microcurrent, I have so many questions because I know microcurrent technology, I mean, there it's endless potential, right?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: If you've been using microcurrent, I have for many, many years, you know what it does for your skin in the long run.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, this really bothers me because so many consumers are so skeptical these days.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, guys, like genuinely these devices, like if you use them for prolonged periods of time, you train your entire like, you know, anatomical framework.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so I want you to speak a little bit about this in terms of like how this really fits in, right?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because right now you were speaking to this earlier, where we've live in a world where surgeries and immediate dermatology procedures, clinic procedures are the go-to.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: But now we regenerative aesthetics is emerging, you know, and it's really coming in robustly.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: I would love for you to speak on that topic as it pertains to this because I think there's so much value here for physicians, also.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone tuning in that's practicing, you know.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a that's a huge subject.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll I'll just dive right in and then we can yeah, we can we can go from there.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, so you know, one of the things that I think um, first of all, that's important for us to understand, just just as people is is the the aging process itself, because I think we all have a different perception, and I think there's a lot of different views and opinions on it.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: But if you if you look at biology and if you look at um the science and if you look at the core of what creates the aging process, it's typically the lack of mitochondria activity.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of other components, you know, your habits, your genetics, um, your exposure to different sorts of things.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all those things obviously are contributing factors to how we age and how we travel through life.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: But at the core of everything, it really has more to do with the mitochondria and how much energy we're able to put forth to be able to repair and regenerate, hopefully in real time.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: So if you take an individual, so let's use myself as an example.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm in my early 20s, um, by the time that I'm 24, 25, my mitochondria activity and my ATP levels will have peaked out.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's going to be at the maximum level of production of ATP.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And ATP that's manufactured only in the mitochondria is the single cellular energy that everything in the human body basically survives from.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it's something that creates all factors of life: the growth of my hair, um, my memory, my process of thought, my sense of smell, um, my internal organ functions, all the way down to my more physical movements of the contraction, the expansion of the muscles are all ATP driven.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: So without ATP, you really can't function as a human being.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the more that you have at a younger age, when you take on damage, when we have all this incoming activity that's constantly around us and seemingly always expanding, um, we need to be able to mitigate this incoming and we need to mitigate the damage and then repair or maintenance and fix, regenerate all that damage.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when we're younger, we can do it in real time, and that's why we just get better and stronger and more resilient and whatnot.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: But then we get to an age, probably mid-20s, late 20s, and you start to see the plateau, and it starts to go the other direction.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so as we get to the age of, let's say, 60, so I'm close to 60 right now, I'm 59.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so by the time that I'm this age now, my mitochondria is producing only a fraction, less than half of what I was producing when I was 20 years old, 20, 24 years old.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: So when you think about that, what I really have when I look in the mirror is age.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that might be the word that we use for it, but really what it is, it's a collection of damage that I no longer have enough cellular energy to repair in real time.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And as a result, it aggregates and that creates what we know is age.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same reason why we don't think as clear as we get older.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Our memory is not quite as strong.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, our workouts are good, but we don't see that instant tone that we did when we were in our 20s.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And when we are wounded or injured or whatnot, the healing process slows down massively.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's all relative to ATP.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: That is the sole source of that entire process.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: So once we know that ATP is so crucial, um, it's responsible when we think about skin care and the way that we look, it's responsible for our collagen production, our fat reproduction in the skin, the glycosaminal glycans.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that's all that's going to be the fullness and the filler, so to speak, of that.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: The elasticity is completely ATP driven.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, blood circulation with higher numbers of blood vessels and larger sizes of blood vessels, it's all completely ATP driven.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we think about that, if we could have a really big available amount, a really big available supply of ATP at this age at 59, what would my body do with it?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And how would my body benefit from that?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it probably won't bring me back to 24, unfortunately.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: But what it can do is it can all of a sudden give fuel to a system that is really, really deprived of fuel.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And as a result, I can really work a lot more rapidly in repairing, rejuvenating, clearing, creating more collagen production, more elastin production, all those different things that lead us to having better and younger looking skin.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I I completely am there with you because there's so many, there's so many layers to this conversation also, because like people talk so much about like, well, what do your cells have, right?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like what's inside of each cell that's really powering it.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: But my question also becomes what's happening between cells and how are they transferring energy between each other?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: And if they're not doing that correctly, then you will have pools and areas of cells, right, that are not functioning.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then you get into topics like senescence, you get into topics that are, you know, more about this idea of like reactivating an entire like microenvironment, right?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and so that's like that's a conversation I think that excites me even more because it's like that's the literal transfer of energy, that's the movement of it and like understanding the biophysics of that movement.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I look at things like microcurrent, I think there's so much potential because you're initially like it's almost like you know, when you're like booting up your car, like if it dies, you're booting that battery up, it's not a permanent, like it's you're not doing it all the time, but you're doing it enough to where you kind of tell that system to say, start transferring energy, you know?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and if you look at the nervous system, for example, you had brought this up, like you know, cognitive improvements that we've seen that are tied to like, you know, elect electrical currents, axons and the way energy travels across, right?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's traveling because of like certain areas having the capacity to push it forward.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that declines with age, that goes away with age.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: So when we look at treatments like Botox and things, you know, that are more neuromodulatory, whatever, you have to have the conversation around energy.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can't just have a conversation around, okay, we're just gonna keep, you know what I mean, like stimulating muscle to the end of time.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's gonna burn out, and it's because you never manage the energy ecosystem.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, anyways, I know super long-winded, but I wanted to, you know, put my rant in there.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, in that, with all that said, I'd love for your take on longevity because I know longevity is a major, major conversation right now in skin.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: How do you think we should be approaching longevity from this energy standpoint, from understanding that, you know, for our skin?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that um, you know, I'm I'm all about longevity in every facet of the human body, not just the face and the skin and whatnot.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but knowing about um ATP, knowing about the mitochondria, knowing about frequency-specific microcurrent and really growing up in a household that that's all we did uh was frequency.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we know that um longevity has a lot to do with basically keeping the whole human body healthy, not just necessarily the face, but the whole human body um healthy.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that means that microcurrent is fantastic again for that whole human body.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: For our aging process, though, um, and for what we're looking at in the mirror, face neck, and those kinds of things, I would say that um using really amazing frequency-specific microcurrent must be just part of your lifestyle.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's like eating a good organic uh meal.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's like using a really good project or uh product um brand regimen on a daily basis.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a good workout.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Electricity or frequency-specific microcurrent um should just be part of that core fabric of your, you know, your your practice and your your your daily routine.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, one thing about microcurrent that I want to ask you because the published data is a little bit uneven right now, I think.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a lot of areas that we can improve on and obviously add to, right?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'd love to understand, like just get your take on this because I know that we can become very, very hypercritical sometimes as consumers.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like as a scientist, like the the fact is that a lot of times you know what works, but the studies just aren't very much there.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: It takes time to publish and all that.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: So can you speak to that a little bit for all the and the skeptics in the audience, you know, about microcurrent?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first of all, um, one of the things that I think is really important is to sort of define um electricity.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because when you look at um electricity, a lot of times people think if it emits an energy and it's being um applied to the body in some way, that it all must be microcurrent, but that's not really true.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: You have electrical muscle stem.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: So those are those devices that basically make the muscles twitch.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're putting them in in contact with the face of the body, thousand sit-ups like in 10 minutes, sort of thing.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Those are EMS.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Those are absolutely counterintuitive, not great for the mitochondria at all.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: They do the the opposite, they shut the whole mitochondria down.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: So a little bit of energy is good.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of energy or more than a threshold is absolutely negative.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um that threshold is probably about 300 microamps.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And we find if you're down in the more 40 to 80 microamps, that's really where the sweet zone is, where we get the best amount of activity.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, first of all, we need to kind of segregate those two things.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the other thing that um is out there that's probably a little confusing is um the word tensor transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation, um, we also do on our whole medical side because we have a full medical side of our company as well.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that really is basically for pain control, but it's not for curative reasons.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have, like, let's say, for example, an injury, let's say you burn your hand, well, you'll have basically what we call a frequency of injury that comes from the burn to the brain, and it constantly tells me that we have pain here.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: And what that does for me as the person is that it will avoid me from using this particular hand or that part of my body until it's healed for long enough so that it basically is okay to be using it again.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And um, the the tense technology, if you were to put a tense technology between, let's say, your hand where the burned is, and you put it right here between the brain and the injury, what will happen is that we can basically scramble, so to speak, the frequency of injury to the point where the brain starts to get confused as I thought that this was the pain, but now all of a sudden there's this big party going on right here in the forearm, and we don't really know which one that we should actually focus on.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so immediately what happens is that we can actually scramble the pain enough to the point where the forearm stimulation starts to become more um significant than the pain in the hand.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: So the pain in the hand instantly goes away, like flipping a light switch, and now it's focused on maybe a slight amount of skin irritation and prickling that's happening right here.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: When you shut the unit off, all of a sudden the pain instantly in the hand comes back immediately.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we call the frequency of injury.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: But that's what transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation is.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's different than electrical muscle stem, which makes your muscles twitch.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have microcurrent, which sometimes is referred to MENS, which stands for minimal electrical neurostimulus.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And basically, microcurrent, true microcurrent, is defined, in my view, by the studies in the science.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we've done a lot of our own clinical studies.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: But even if you look all the way back to the 80s, 1982, there was a huge study by Chang in 1982 that was really the first really good study that proved that lower levels of microampage will stimulate or have the ability to stimulate the mitochondria and create up to 500 times more ATP.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're thinking about that reservoir of cellular energy, it's not just a little bit more, it's not like 10% more or 20% more, which would be great.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's literally 500 times more than the mitochondria has the capability of producing on its own.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that by itself is this really, really huge, massive, massive um energy dump that basically um creates all kinds of cool activity.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now, coming back to your question, the studies and maybe the disjointedness of the studies.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: If you go and you start to look online or you start to do a little bit of research and start going through the studies, you're gonna find a ton of different studies.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of them are observational.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it might be, for example, a study in regards to age management.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a study in regards to a tendon for horses.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it could be a study basically for pulled hamstrings for athletes or post-surgical recovery and wound healing.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you would think that all these are really, really significantly different, but at the core of every single one of the mechanisms of action for every one of these is usually an uptick of ATP and a decrease in inflammation, bringing the tissue back to a state of homeostasis.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: So while all these seem like they're really, really um contrasted from one another, they're actually, in my view, the way I think about it, it's basically more the same than it is not the same because we're really hitting those two focal points, right?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um taking inflammation down and increasing ATPs.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what I do think um that we're gonna start seeing is a higher level of consumer education with all the information that we're bombarded with that we have access to, which is fantastic.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, shows like this to help better educate people as to why it might be different than what you could be purchasing, let's say, out of Bartels or something like that, which are more tens or electrical muscle stem, and why the lower energy is that key energy.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's just going to be a process of continuing to educate and then also getting more dialed-in clinical studies that are really hyper-focused towards the more consistent, I guess, intended for uses and things like that.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now, um, one of the things that I think is really interesting about um microcurrent um and the clinical studies when it comes to um skin care or rejuvenation.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we've done our own clinical studies at the University of Washington, and we were able to establish, and we were doing two studies.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we did them back to back.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: We did one for wound healing.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um And so we were that was purely from medical to see basically how much more rapid would a wound heal if it were um treated with our frequencies with microcurrent.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we found that the healing process sped up by nearly four times.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it was about four times quicker than it was if it wasn't um treated with our frequencies.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a that's a fourfold increase.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really, really huge when you think about it.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now at the same time, one of the primary mechanisms of action of that success was really about taking inflammation down.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: And as it turns out, the body, when it's injured, it basically goes through this huge inflammation time frame kind of a thing.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it might be three or four days, but it could be up to you know 10 days, just depending on the type of injury or surgery or whatnot that you have.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so our frequencies have a tendency to be able to bring the tissue back to homeostasis so rapidly that it almost mitigates that whole trauma inflammation stage.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: And when you do that, the healing can start right away.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have this huge dump of adenosin triphosphate of cellular energy, all of a sudden you have no inflammation, you have a whole bunch of energy, and the body just kind of kicks into gear and does its thing.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a really, really amazing thing when you think about it from like, let's say, that healing standpoint.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now, from a age management or a longevity standpoint, how do those also can we just take that and apply that to the skin?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one thing we know for sure is that the aging of skin, the aging of the human body is really, really directly impacted by chronic inflammation.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what you hear in every study in anybody who knows anything about health, wellness, and longevity, inflammation is one of our biggest dangers for the process of aging, right?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: The second thing that we do know is we also know that essentially our ATP starts to taper down and we start bringing on this collection of damage.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we basically can take that inflammation down and we can increase the ATP so we can start to regenerate and renew all this damage that's happening, that longevity situation becomes very, very clear and that pathway is very open.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the same studies that we did at the University of Washington, specifically for the skin, we proved a 14% increase in collagen synthesis improvement, and this is over uh 20 days.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was technically 18 days, but we'll round it up to 20 days.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Usually you can't see anything significant of collagen production in less than probably 45 days to 60 days.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: So 20 days is really, really remarkable.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: In that same study, we found a 48% increase in elasticity.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that was absolutely amazing as well.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And elasticity, there's not very many things that stimulate the synthesis of elasticity specifically to that extent.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then we also were able to prove a 38% increase in increased blood circulation and not just temporary, but larger blood vessels and more blood vessels because ATP is very strong in re-establishing new pathways and larger pathways for circulatory benefits.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: So when we think about that, that has a major effect on the texture, has a major effect on fine lines and wrinkles, has a major effect on um regeneration and overall um better looking skin.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's really, I mean, that's amazing.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's really, really like very, very amazing data.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I it's interesting because we I don't know why we talk about skincare in such a silo when we know that there is immense benefit to like, you know, like people talk about delivery all the time, or they talk about all of these other components, but like what you're saying really makes me wonder.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, we need to start working more on the protocols in that protocol framework.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, with that, I would love for you to kind of speak on this because I know there are certain ingredients, for example, that do like that penetration enhancement is there when you combine it with like microcurrent, when you, you know, electroporation, whatever.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that electricity can be immensely beneficial now that we're looking at bigger, you know, ingredients like proteins and like growth factors and you know, that kind of that kind of stuff.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love for you to speak on this in terms of like where we should go or like where you think the aesthetic field needs to kind of concentrate on in terms of like the protocol uh component and like figuring out those protocols.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: So um thinking about um where do we incorporate microcurrent or microcurrent lifting or what we call sculpting um into the service.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, typically um we like to move right in, even if you're doing this at home, with a good uh cleansing.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: We were want to go into an exfoliation product, whether it's an enzyme or maybe a light chemical peel, depending on what you're anticipating um doing in that particular service or that particular day.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um we love to use um tools, and we'll talk about brushes here, I think, in a minute.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I won't go too far into that right now, but we love to use exfoliation tools and brushes and things like that that expedite that exfoliation process.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because remember that that stratum corneum, that top layer of the skin is completely non-living.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so what its job is, it's constantly sloughing up.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's why if you rub, let's say, a black cloth or something like that on your skin, even on your arm or whatnot, you'll always see a little bit of skin flakes.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times people think, oh my gosh, I'm dry, I'm flaky.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's natural.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: We're constantly peeling that layer off and losing that layer because it's non-living and it's constantly detaching.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: So our exfoliation process to make sure that we can expedite that detachment because that layer of non-living skin protects us from the sun to a certain degree, so it deflects light.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's why if you're ever going to do LED, you want to make sure to do a really good exfoliation because you're gonna get a lot better energy into the skin.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's also non-living, so it's non-conductive, so it's not good for microcurrent for conductivity purposes.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And when it comes to products that you were just talking about, it's not good for that because probably 70-80% of the products that you put on topically will get caught up in the stratum corneum and they'll never even make it to the living tissue.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if we do a really great exfoliation, that would be our next step.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: After that, then I'm gonna go in and we'll talk about this in a minute.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is our BT sculpt.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: We would go in and we would do all of our lifting movements.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then after we're done with our lifting movements, then we would apply either our ampules, our serums, and our creams, typically in that order.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Smallest molecule first, most concentrated into the largest molecule, which is typically going to be the cream.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: We use specific frequencies with that, always water-based products.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And what it does do is that in conjunction with having a really good exfoliated skin so that we have a clear pathway into the skin, um, then your electricity is also going to help to basically work as a courier, so to speak, or a delivery mechanism to help basically get a much better absorption into the skin, maybe 50, 60 times uh 50 to 60 percent more absorption in the skin than if you were just a topically applied.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that's that's exactly what I wanted to learn about because I mean, we never talk about that efficacy level, you know what I mean?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: That jump in in true efficacy when it comes to skincare.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I don't know why.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: We've never been concentrating on that as an industry.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I would love for you to speak on these like new and emerging therapeutics, though.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know, like, for example, exosomes, like topical exosomes are a big buzz right now.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have to discuss that specifically.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's a lot of uh question marks in exosomes.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but in general, right?
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's the idea of like the more and more we come up with ingredients that are biomimetic, what does that mean in terms of trying to utilize energy more and more?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, realistically, in the human body, physiologically, proteins and everything that's working around those proteins in that environment is electrically dictated, you know, and so even like protein-protein interactions and like you know, the way they fold and like all of the interactions with water, like that all has to do with like actual energetics.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, let's like kind of I'd love to dive into that component of it, you know, in terms of um how you guys are approached that, you know, from your standpoint.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, you know, one of the things with products is that I think that um with general skincare products, they've come so far um with the science that we have these days, um, all the new um clinical evidence and things like that.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one thing that I would say though, in regards to skincare, is that again, um, most of this is formulated.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I won't say that the formulations aren't good.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of great stuff out there.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say that um, generally speaking, there's two things.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: One is that regardless of how good the formulation is, if you can't get it in, you're on the outside.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so the results are going to be probably insignificant.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that would be one.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I think basically making sure that you're prepared, meaning exfoliated, and then you have something to help enhance the absorption, as like microcurrent.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think those are um definitely a must-do.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, I think you're kind of wasting your money on some of these great formulations.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: The second thing that I would say about formulations um out there, and as far as formulating skincare products, we do that as well as you know, we're a uh skincare manufacturer as well as a medical device manufacturer.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but um I think that what I typically see in formulations is these very, very, very small percentages of some of these key peptides and those kinds of things.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's fine.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, everybody kind of has their own focus and whatnot.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I will tell you my focus is I always say this to everybody that will listen is that I really design our technology, our products, um our protocols, everything that I'm involved in with our company.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm literally making this and I'm in search of this for myself.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: I want to feel better.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be healthier, I want to be uh, I want to have younger and healthier looking skin.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to rejuvenate.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking for anything and everything that has the efficacy that's relative to the mitochondria.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's my main connection.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Everything that we do has a relationship to the mitochondria typically to be able to actually make a more productive environment for that situation.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: So when we go to make a skincare product, I'm not putting one tenth of a percent of that particular ingredient.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you look at the white papers on every single ingredient when we're putting a deck together for our skincare products, you'll look at all the efficacy papers and all the studies and whatnot.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it will tell you right there that on this study, we use 2% of this particular peptide in this study to be able to achieve this.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, a lot of companies and a lot of people, and again to each their own, will basically use one-tenth of one percent of that product, and they will market that we have this peptide in here, and this peptide's been proven to do one, two, and three.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's not a false statement.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: That is a true statement.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: They just left out the fact that it was a 2% um introduction of that particular key ingredient, not a one-tenth of one percent kind of a thing.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, for us, I don't really look at the monetary aspect of it as most of these other organizations do.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: I probably should, um, but I don't because I want this for myself.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like if you can't get a result and if you're not going to follow that study, then why would you even put it in your product?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: I want to max everything out to the highest extent so that everything that we bring to market, everything that we use on ourselves is going to make the biggest impact possible.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we pick every single one of the ingredients based upon those things and we mix our products for that.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it's an interesting conversation because it really opens the door to understanding that like there are very, there's very much a need for skincare to understand like what's going to actually work and then how can you pair it to really improve efficacy.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: So like the whole 2% peptide, you know, concentration thing, I I just, you know, as a consumer, I'll tell you, yeah, like I know that's not in these and you know, in these products at the end of the day.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: I know that's not what they're dealing with, like the actual percentage that they're doing their studies on.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing if you learn how to deliver your actives better, right?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Or your bio like the memetic ingredients better, then you can still formulate in that.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to be open-minded enough to, as a skincare brand, say by itself, topically applying this is not gonna get you here.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like that's the I feel like that conversation in this industry is so needed because everyone is trying to be the superhero by themselves.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like you need to learn, you know, like you need to learn to work together.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's where I feel like what you're you guys have created is an immensely beneficial to not only consumers, but it's really beneficial for brands to then start looking towards companies like this and saying, how can I pair my my topical, you know, with with this device and really get that efficacy?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, I don't know, it's just an interesting conversation.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I I figure, you know, let's bring it up.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what are your what do you think like going forward, like we we should concentrate on in terms of like really understanding like what's optimal for pairing with devices?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: So for example, just to get us started, like LED is a big topic, right?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like everybody talks about LED, mask, red light therapy, all of that.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: But a big question becomes well, what can you really pair with LED treatment?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm doing the mask, what can I put on my face from the skincare side?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or or can I use microcurrent after an LED?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of thing.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: So um I would say, first of all, I'm a huge fan of let me just digress there for a second.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: I would, I would I want to say that that microcurrent is one spoke in the wheel of wellness and rejuvenation and better and younger looking skin.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really a a full team effort in that way.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um I would say that there's nothing that comes close to our frequencies, not even close when it comes to mitochondria stimulation, and that is at the epicenter of wellness and younger and better looking skin.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I definitely think that frequency-specific microcurrent should and must be that leader because of its strength and its efficacy in that way.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: However, um other technologies, whether it's um LED, fantastic.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love LED.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we do some LED as well.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: We've worked with LED technology probably for 15 or 20 years.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I like that, whether it's the uh 460 nanometers for the blue or whether it's the 590 nanometers for the yellow or the 640 uh for the red, I love all of those.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: I have one in my service room at my house, so I truly believe in that.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I love um oxygen infusion.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: We also do oxygen infusion.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um you as you as you know, the uh the Krebs cycle and the entire mitochondria activity is an aerobic process.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: So when we talk about how do we create more mitochondria harmonization, well, we also need good purified oxygen available for the mitochondria to be able to actually produce at a higher level.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: So oxygen infusion is really fantastic.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when we take, let's say, the ambient air, it's probably you know, 18%, um, maybe 18% um oxygen and and probably 80%, if not more, nitrogen.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: We separate the oxygen and the nitrogen.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we basically have um sieves that we basically filter out the nitrogen and we keep the purified oxygen and we come up with almost 100%.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's about 94% pure oxygen.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: And if you start to spray that onto the surface of the skin, for example, the skin gets super happy, really excited, and all of a sudden your mitochondria are chirping like little birds, and it refines the pore size, and it really basically aids to then using microcurrent right over the top of it, because now we have that other vital component right there.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: When you were talking about ingredients and the ingredient science, um, everything that we do typically with ingredients is also associated with the mitochondria.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we use a ton of cellular respirators.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: So if we have an ingredient, for example, that helps the cellular respiration of the skin, again, we're bringing more oxygen into the skin, which is a super positive thing because we want to basically give more oxygen to the mitochondria.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: We even use uh forms of um live ATP in our products.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so there basically is the ability now to either have ATP supplements, you can actually take them orally.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can also basically find a lot of products as like ours where we actually have ATP in the products themselves.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: They can be utilized in a similar fashion as your own natural ATP.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very cool in that way.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think that um mixing different technologies, I think it's a great thing.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um I love the idea of layering technology.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for at-home use, um, one of my favorite um routines is using basically our microsonic cleansing brushes, which are amazing.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: We also have an ultrasonic spatula um that we call the BT Microfusion.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing for super thorough exfoliation.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, our um our BT sculpt, which is our at-home microcurrent technology to basically scoop and lift the muscles and get all that specific frequency in there.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: So um a person at home can pick up some of these tools, look for the best quality tools that are you know manufactured by uh hopefully by a U.S.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: company, I think are the best.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's my opinion anyway.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um that has a robust amount of education and and history behind them and efficacy, and you can put together a pretty good regimen that you can really help take your skincare to the next level.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what I always say is this is that as a skin therapist, because not only am I, you know, my background is uh engineering, obviously, but also um as a skin therapist is that I can say that I have magic hands and that I can do amazing things to your skin, but I can only do so much if I see you maybe every once every four weeks or maybe once every six weeks, right?
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so it's kind of like going to see that miracle doctor.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: He or she might be great, but really the work is on you, right?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the work is what we do every minute of every day.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so we really not only basically have to go into that professional to get that mentorship, that education, to get those professional services, but also get that direction of how do we now service that skin at home?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because we need to work out, you know, every day of the week to make sure that we're making the progress that we need to.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think that's like that that's like the biggest thing with anything that has to do with like aesthetic at home, anything.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you have to find a way that's going to be, you know, you're using products that have maximum efficacy designed into the what they are, you know.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I really, really personally speaking, like I am starting to advocate as much as I can for that because people are buying a lot of stuff at this point.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: We're all buying a lot of stuff, we're all selling, you know, we're all like spending crazy amounts of money on products that might be really, really great formulas.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the theory is there, you know, like biologically it makes sense.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: But again, like the delivery isn't val, you know, viable, or like we're stuck at some sort of a gate because we haven't discussed things like, you know, what does light actually do in terms of pushing in like vesicles, or like, you know, what what's the difference between yellow light, blue light, red light, you know, in terms of like other components and like how they interact.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I just feel like this conversation is so broad and it needs to get even broader, you know, in terms of like understanding um, you know, skin health from that standpoint.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you make you make an excellent point though, like in terms of like if you're gonna do this, you gotta do it at home, you gotta do it every day, and you have to be responsible with what you expect, you know.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's another and it's a big question I had for you because unfortunately, I've had friends who look at me using my microcurrent device or whatever, right?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I use mine pretty regularly, and they're like, What are you doing?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why are you doing that?
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you don't understand, you know, because you didn't see me 10 years ago or you know, whatever X amount of years ago when I started something and now because I do this as a consumer, you know.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, I I would love to actually discuss further in terms of like, I know there are certain things people have questions about.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for example, Botox is a big one that comes up.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, if I get regular even baby Botox, can I use like a something like a microcurrent device?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what are your thoughts around that in terms of like pairing this with like other aesthetic treatments and like you know, yeah, yeah.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that um I think that um microcurrent pairs beautifully with just about everything.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's more at that core basis.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: So make sure before you start getting a lot of other things that go above and beyond that to uh max out your potential with with microcurrent and some of your other more non-invasive sorts of things.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of things that um that you see in the marketplace, whether it's let's say radio frequency or whether it's um other things like micro needling, and we do a lot of those things as well as a medical device manufacturer.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: But just kind of keep in mind that most things that essentially are sort of in the consumer-facing um eye, are usually more damaging first.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a controlled form of damage, and then you go through your trauma, your regeneration, and then finally your renewal, hoping for that better result.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: When microcurrent basically is um service on the skin, you're really just upregulating in a natural way what the body already does.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're just giving it more so there's no damage.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: So you cut that whole thing out and you're really building up its organic base with microcurrent.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: But going into things like um can you layer it with injectables?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely, 100%.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: You just want to make sure that whoever your injector is, that they're aware that you're doing microcurrent.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then they'll probably advise that you actually stay away from it for maybe three weeks or four weeks or whatnot.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you have fillers, that's gonna be a little bit different.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: They might have a little bit more time.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: That they want you to stay away from that.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure that you do all your lifting first because you want those muscles in the right spot to make sure that if you do do a little bit of filler, that you're going to basically have that located strategically.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you're doing things like radio frequency or microneedling or whatnot, it's really fantastic in tandem because most of the other things, when you think about it, are all basically for the texture of the skin or maybe collagen production, elastin production.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's all fantastic.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: We already went over how dominant microcurrent is for collagen and elastin.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: So there's nothing that really even comes close to it.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: But my point is that there's nothing else that does the sculpture of the face.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where microcurrent comes in.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: So when we talk about the tissue and the mitochondria and whatnot, yes, we're growing more collagen, we're growing more elastin, creating blood circulation.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we're improving the overall color of the skin, refining the pores, all those things, and that's going to give us a better look.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: But what about the actual sculpture of the face and the lack of tonicity, let's say, in the muscles as we get older?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: So as we get older and these muscles start to elongate, they just start to lose their shape just a little bit.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: What we're going to do is we're going to come back in and we're going to physically move the muscles into a shorter position.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a form of what we call kinesiology.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like massage.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're going to actually come through, and we actually have this really cool patent, patented basically technology that we call K4I Tech.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is actually spring-loaded.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: So what happens is when I grab the muscle on the face here and I put this down, what's happening is there's tension moving upward.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's actually pushing that muscle into a shorter position.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: And what happens is immediately through kinesiology, the muscle responds and it goes into the shorter position.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: If I work on the nasal labial fold and I actually push the muscle back this way, the muscle will respond right away.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing to do with the current.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is physical movement, basically using the probes here.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: So what happens is that once the frequency basically is incorporated with this, now I'm stimulating the mitochondria.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm getting all that activity going, and it gives the muscle more endurance to stay and more reason to stay in that position for a longer period of time.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: So no jolting the muscle or anything like that.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's not true microcurrent.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: True microcurrent, you're going to have to physically move the muscle.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's actually spring loaded, grabbing it and moving it upward.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: You could be working on your corrugator here, same thing.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: You just grab the lower corrugator, put the probe down on the top, hold it, and you can just feel that eyebrow area in through here, moving upward.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the sculpture portion of it is truly, truly important.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're going to do Botox, if you're going to do fillers, if you're going to do radio frequency, if you're going to do LED, all those things are good.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Microneedling, there's some really good results you can get specifically on the neck area on microneedling.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a fan of all those.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: I won't say that I'm opposed to all of it.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: But what I would say is your line leader should always be really your microcurrent.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing, too, is that if you're going to do those other things, just know that it's always damaging the skin first.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Microneedling, your radio frequency, your laser, chemical, everything basically is really damaging it first to hopefully get a better result.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you basically minimize the trauma and heal and regenerate quicker through your microcurrent?
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, I can I can definitely get behind that.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting how you showed that, though the use of it, because that's a big misconception, right?
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: In like microcurrent devices, is that you're supposed to just go over your entire face.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like there's no instruction on that component.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, can you talk about that a little bit more?
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like why that really matters?
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like how you were showing, like you have to grab the muscle and then let the current act.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why does that physiologically matter?
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: So when you grab the muscle here, so this is look working on um this particular muscle for the nasal labials.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you grab this and head back this direction, I'm now pushing that muscle back.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: And just like, you know, when you go into for a massage, when you go in for a massage, basically that's exactly what kinesiology is.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so let's say that the massage therapist basically works on the upper trap.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: They take it from the belly of the muscle in that case, and they're moving it outward.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you loosen the muscle, you loosen the tension on the origin insertion point, and all of a sudden your range of motion comes back, you feel pretty good, um, and it just feels a little bit different.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: And the muscle will eventually come back to a little bit of a smaller spot.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe a few days later it gets a little bit snugger again.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: So this is the exact same thing basically that we're doing here is that we're moving the different muscles in the face.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: So lower master for the jawbone.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to bring that jawbone up and I want to try to get rid of some of that gobble down here.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna work on that lower master, bring that up here.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna work on my upper master, which is gonna be my my cheekbone line right here.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I work on that one here with again our BT sculpt.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I pull that up there.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: I work on my corrugators in through here because I want my eyebrows to come up.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna work on those, holding it usually for about 13 seconds each time.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm holding that, and then I'm gonna also work over here on my nasal labial, pushing that all the way back because I want that to hopefully disappear as much as I possibly can.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then I would repeat that on the other side.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: So each time I'm holding this for about 12 seconds, and what's happening is that physically we're moving it with the spring-loaded K4I tech patented technology, and it's pushing it in that into that shorter position.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: The body responds right away.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: The ATP levels all of a sudden give it more stamina to stay in that new position for a longer period of time.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you repeat it, let's say about three nights per week, now you're constantly reminding your muscles to get back into that spot, kind of like you do, you know, when you're working out.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now, there's also a certain amount of muscle activation that happens with the frequency too, as we're actually running the frequency through here, and we're not only stimulating the mitochondria, getting the physical kinesiology, but we also have a frequency muscle activation that's happening.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, what's happening is that it's really starting to reconnect this new muscle size with the neuron, with the brain, so that the brain believes that this is normal, this is where this should be.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: And your brain actually controls all the master frequency in the whole human body.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's one of the reasons why we can stand upright and we can walk and everything else, because it controls the tonicity or the length, so to speak, of the muscles, which basically orchestrates the whole physical stature of the human body.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: So if we're reactivating these muscles, we're physically pushing them in that spot, increasing ATP, and then also activating a little bit of muscle frequency.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: So reactivating those muscles, it starts to reconnect the neural pathways to that muscle that this is where this needs to be.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now, some people have talked about microcurrent with bells palsy and stroke victims.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's a medical indication.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you can do that as a skin therapist to treat that, uh, you know, to charge somebody.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: But we have heard and seen so many anecdotal um stories and responses and observations where people have used it on stroke victims because what it does is it starts to reconnect the neural pathways from an electrical standpoint.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so those muscles basically start to reconnect and they have an idea now of where they need to be.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: When there's no electrical pathways that are connected, it's a full droop, right?
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it's almost like a full paralysis.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can reconnect those, now all of a sudden that muscle can start to act at least a little bit more similar to how it did before.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: Some people have complete recovery.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really, really fascinating.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you so much for explaining that.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's like that's the kind of like information I really wanted to get because you know, I have phosis.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, I've used microcurrent for mitosis for a long, like my entire, you know, adult life.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: And no one believes me when I say I'm like literally, if you look at me right after I get microcurrent and I do it, it's like I don't have it at all.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been working for me.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so the conversation also comes up about like muscle fatigue.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: People say that a lot.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, eventually you're gonna fatigue your muscles out and it's not gonna work anymore.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like that's a topic.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean, can you talk to us about that as well in terms of is that I mean, is that true?
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: Is that myth?
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is the science of that?
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um there's there's two things um that I'd say about that is one is that um if you're using these higher levels like of electrical muscle sim where it's making them twitch, you will totally fatigue the muscle and you'll kill off the mitochondria activity and you'll kill and evaporate, essentially dissipate all the ATP that's in those localized areas.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: So higher levels of current are absolutely terrible.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: But if we're constantly doing good frequency, lower levels using something like um this BT sculpt, um, then what's happening is that we're just constantly pumping up the ATP levels, the mitochondria at natural levels that are similar to basically what the body already functions off of.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's basically like you're part of the family here.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we're just basically good fuel, so to speak.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's like good organic food, right?
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: That we're kind of giving to the to the human body there.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: And um we won't fatigue the muscles, you can't really overdo it with microcurrent, but you can basically really regenerate them and make them healthy.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now, here's something that will probably blow your mind a little bit off of skincare.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: But we have some equipment that we're developing right now that's basically for full body regeneration.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: And why is that important?
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because as we start to think and we start to really dive deep into the weeds in regards to you know the mitochondria, it's again not just in the face, it's all over the human body.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we grew up in a household where frequency was everything that we, you know, we talked about, that we used, and we did it continuously to prepare for sporting events, um, to recover from sporting events, and to basically heal from injuries, from surgeries, and everything else.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that we're really after that's really, really um, I think people are aware of right now, is basically just that recovery.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we're constantly looking at how much sleep we're getting, we're constantly looking at how much rest we're getting, we're constantly looking at how many steps that we're taking and things like that.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: And why that's really important for people who are really into wellness and into athletics or just you know, weekend warriors and things like that, is because injury basically massively multiplies when you become weaker and if you are tired and you're not fully recovered.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, what we're really doing is focusing in on technology um for let's say um, you know, weekend warriors, uh runners, uh, baseball players, golfers, um, whatever sport that you're into.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: For example, I've just basically been really into running.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just did a marathon um about three weeks ago, and I ran the full 26 um mile marathon.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: And what I did before the marathon is we do basically a full body electrical charge um with our microcurrent frequencies to massively ramp up the ATP levels, to really prime the body so it can perform in its best capacity, run the marathon.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: Immediately after the marathon, I basically come back to my home and then the whole human body.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so what that does is that another 20-25 minutes of frequency, the next day I feel fantastic.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm already basically feeling good.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: Two days after that, I ran another 15 miles just to prove the point that my body basically had for the most part recovered, not fully, but enough that I could actually do easily another half a marathon in two days, and I'm almost 60 years old.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: So being able to actually recover that quickly is absolutely amazing.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not just for the face, the entire human body basically benefits um from the uh frequencies of microcurrent.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I do have a question though, because I've had this question.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: I know I've seen a lot of people talk about, you know, like the body's like the whole energetic, you know, biohacking side of this whole thing.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like the word biohacking, but you know, um I my biggest question though is about cardiovascular health and yeah, the heart's rhythm, you know, and not messing with things like that.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's a major, major question.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I yeah, I don't know where the data is on all of that.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd love, I mean, do you know what we're what we've seen or we've looked at already in that space?
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or I mean, what is it?
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can tell you.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: So so because we're a medical device manufacturer and we um we do skincare products, skincare technology, but full medical device range as well.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we have a huge focus on our quality management.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: We're ISO 9001, ISO 13485, um, MDSAP, CEMDR, anything that you can think of from a compliance and regulatory standpoint, safety standpoint, um, on a worldwide basis, we are we're part of.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I would say that um when it comes to electrical stimulation on the lower side, meaning more microcurrent, frequency-specific microcurrent, I've really seen nothing that is of any significant concerns for myself.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't worry me or bother me whatsoever.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: However, contraindications on a federal level that are required basically for anything that emits electrical current, are typically pacemaker on any sort of heart issues, uh thrombot thrombosis, phlebitis, um, currently under a medical practitioner's care.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's always best to check if you have some sort of a heart condition or whatnot, it's best to check with your medical professional to see is it okay?
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like it's okay if I can use microcurrent in that sort of a way?
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when we're using it on the face, um, it stays localized between these probes right here.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's going nowhere else in the human body.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's still technically a contraindication because you have to put that as a contraindication because you're federally mandated, but it never leaves this area.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's only going to be basically in the tissue right here.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's never going to go past the heart or anything like that, right?
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you're using other things like let's say electrical muscle stem, that's gonna be a much higher level.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that could have a little bit more of a concern with the heart because again, everything is an electrical system and the heart's basically one muscle that's electrically basically expanding, you know, and contracting in that way.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, um, I've not really, I've I think microcurrent's one of the least concerning, and that's the great thing about it.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's why they use it on, you know, we were talking about horses.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're talking about Olympic athletes.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's really not any NFL, NHL, um, MLB team, college teams that don't have our frequency frequency specific type of microcurrent because it's so effective, and there's no there's now a downside of it.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's really no nothing bad that happens to it, you know, from it and kind of think it's only good.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's really interesting because I mean I I'm a huge believer in, you know, like using these, you know, different modalities for true like longevity-based therapies, you know, like for overall health.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: I have I think I've always been a believer in it personally as a scientist.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I just think that the reason I asked you that also is because there are so many people that are fear-mongering in this space.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: And one of my biggest arguments is always like, well, what about all the cardio toxic drugs that we have approved in this country?
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much crap out there, and you're taking it systemically, and it's actually damaging like the nodes in your heart, you know, for example, you know, like yeah, and so that's I that's a big thing I do want to debunk in this conversation, like having this conversation with you is debunk that for our audience because yeah, I'm not saying it can't cause issues, right?
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you have like you said pre-existing heart condition, any kind of pacemaker, any kind of implant, but for the normal everyday person that doesn't have those, to then like you know, you have to weigh the weigh that conversation scientifically, you know, in terms of like who's actually talking about this, and like and what you said is so important about the localization of these currents when you're utilizing them in the muscles.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, you know, if you're using it on your legs, that stimulation is localized, you know, it's a very like almost precision therapy approach rather than I think a lot of people kind of assume, right?
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: Which is like, oh my god, like my body is being electrified or something, you know, whatever.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's it's a really, really important conversation to have, you know, because I would love to see us go in this direction because there is like endless, you know, therapeutic potential when you understand energy, you know?
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and one what big question I have for you is there currently a map that talks about the frequencies that are optimal for certain muscle groups?
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like, for example, like I know in the neck area they're much thinner, the muscles are much thinner, you know, talking about that kind of is that conversation happening from what you see right now?
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, again, our focus is um more mitochondria and inflammation, but frequency-specific microcurrent, if you look that up frequency-specific microcurrent, um, there's a whole group of doctors who um use our um equipment that we we design that are doing some amazing things.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: And they're doing everything from upregulating, downregulating, uh melatonin, dopamine, serotonin, you know, everything that you can think of.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're like our own little pharmaceutical factory right here inside our own body.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: And um, by being able to communicate um to the body, there's some really, really amazing things.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so there's uh a lot of good, a lot of good reading to do on that.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we're just scratching the surface.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've been doing this since the 70s, but I still feel like we're new.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like it's it's amazing how much we don't know.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and at the last conference that I went to, the last uh frequency-specific microcurrent uh conference that I went to with all the doctors and just listening to days and days of um of uh of uh you know seminars and conversations and things like that, it's just absolutely amazes me at some of the things that are happening out there.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we're just we're super um honored to be part of it, you know, as the manufacturing supplier of that equipment.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I love it.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this I mean, I'm I'm so excited for everything you guys are doing and what you're going to do in the future.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just so thrilled to see someone focus on the space like that because anyone who is, you know, a big science nerd, we all understand the benefits of truly understanding energetics and understanding how energy moves in our body.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's really what we are.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're like really like balloons, you know, water with a lot of energy moving through us, you know.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just I'm very, very excited to see what you guys are doing.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you so much.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: This has been such an amazing conversation and very excited.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: If anybody listening wants to check out biotherapeutic or like partner with them on a in a professional setting, you can scroll down.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_00: The information is in our show notes, but definitely reach out to us as well if you want to get more information about the brand.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you so much, uh, David.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: This was really great.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're welcome.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy the conversation.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having us.