Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger And The Dick's Purchases (10/15/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger And The Dick's Purchases (10/15/26) · Beyond The Horizon

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. Brian
0:04
Speaker 1: Koberger and his team are throwing everything they can at
0:08
Speaker 1: the prosecution, hoping that something sticks. However, so far, they
0:13
Speaker 1: have not been very lucky when it comes to getting
0:16
Speaker 1: the judge to buy into their narrative. And when I
0:19
Speaker 1: say the judge, I mean multiple judges. Not just the
0:22
Speaker 1: one right now, but previously. Megan Marshall and Judge John
0:26
Speaker 1: Judge as well. But Koberger's team, they're not giving up.
0:30
Speaker 1: They're not going to quit. And they're certainly not going
0:33
Speaker 1: to stop trying to get their client out from underneath
0:35
Speaker 1: these charges. The problem that they keep running into, however,
0:39
Speaker 1: is that the evidence that has been built against Brian
0:42
Speaker 1: Koberger is very strong. And when you have that kind
0:46
Speaker 1: of evidence, it's very difficult to get out from underneath
0:48
Speaker 1: it unless you have something to counter it. And so far,
0:52
Speaker 1: they have not come to the table with anything that
0:55
Speaker 1: even looks like it's going to counter what the prosecution
0:58
Speaker 1: has presented. And I think that's why you see a
1:01
Speaker 1: kitchen sink and everything else approach being taken by Ann
1:04
Speaker 1: Taylor and company here. Because they understand the stakes, obviously,
1:08
Speaker 1: and they understand that the evidence is built against them.
1:11
Speaker 1: And when you have that kind of evidence that you're
1:13
Speaker 1: staring at as a defense attorney, you know it has
1:15
Speaker 1: to be all gas and no brakes. And that's where
1:18
Speaker 1: Ann Taylor and company are at now. It's all gas,
1:20
Speaker 1: no brakes. But at some point, they're going to have
1:23
Speaker 1: to put up And if they're going to make allegations
1:27
Speaker 1: about the prosecution withholding discovery, withholding information, they better have
1:31
Speaker 1: the evidence to back that up for the judge. And
1:33
Speaker 1: if they don't, they're going to be in big trouble.
1:36
Speaker 1: So today we have an article from Fox News and
1:39
Speaker 1: the headline, Brian Koberger defense aims to create illusion with
1:43
Speaker 1: renewed bid to toss evidence. According to a former FBI agent,
1:49
Speaker 1: this article was authored by Adam Sabes. Brian Kohlberger's defense
1:55
Speaker 1: team is trying to create an illusion for future jurors
1:58
Speaker 1: with a new effort to get certain evidence tossed, a
2:00
Speaker 1: former FBI special agent said. Yeah, no doubt about it.
2:04
Speaker 1: Anyone who follows cases knows they were building a narrative
2:07
Speaker 1: with these filings because they can't do it in the
2:10
Speaker 1: public because of the gag order. You know, the gag
2:12
Speaker 1: order they wanted, by the way. Yeah, because of that.
2:15
Speaker 1: So instead, what they're going to do is build that
2:17
Speaker 1: narrative by filing these motions, even if these motions are
2:21
Speaker 1: out to lunch. And we already seen the judge call
2:25
Speaker 1: them out for the Cy Ray affidavit. And if you recall,
2:28
Speaker 1: Judge Hippler wasn't very happy with the defense over that
2:32
Speaker 1: whole entire ordeal. So they better be very, very cautious
2:36
Speaker 1: moving forward with their approach here and with the throw
2:39
Speaker 1: all the spaghetti you can at the wall and hope
2:42
Speaker 1: some sticks kind of strategy. Koberger is charged with first
2:46
Speaker 1: degree murder and the deaths of four students at the
2:49
Speaker 1: University of Idaho, including Kaylee Gonsalves, Zanna Kern-Lodl, Madison Mogan,
2:54
Speaker 1: and Ethan Chapin. The former Washington State University student was
2:58
Speaker 1: also charged with one felony count of burglary. During an
3:02
Speaker 1: April 9th hearing, Judge Stephen Hippler issued several rulings on
3:06
Speaker 1: motions filed by the defense. Hippler agreed partially to a
3:09
Speaker 1: motion from a defense attorney that would have blocked prosecutors
3:12
Speaker 1: from using such words as psychopath and sociopath during the trial.
3:17
Speaker 1: That's not a victory. Nobody was going to use those
3:19
Speaker 1: words anyway. Now I know the weird Brian Koberger stands
3:23
Speaker 1: out there. We'll try and make this as like some
3:25
Speaker 1: kind of big victory for him, but it's not. It's
3:28
Speaker 1: basically just the judge giving everyone a reminder that they
3:30
Speaker 1: have to follow the Idaho rules of evidence. And I
3:33
Speaker 1: think it's telling when you see the kind of thing
3:35
Speaker 1: that people are hanging their hat on when it comes
3:37
Speaker 1: to Koberger and his defense. Like this is some sort
3:40
Speaker 1: of big victory for them. But you know what they say,
3:43
Speaker 1: a drowning man will grab on to any kind of
3:45
Speaker 1: life preserver he can. He cautioned, however, that the defense
3:49
Speaker 1: request is similar to asking for an order that says
3:52
Speaker 1: the state shall not commit prosecutorial misconduct. Bang, right there.
3:57
Speaker 1: There is no sort of order that's needed for those words.
4:01
Speaker 1: Everybody knows they can't use those words in court when
4:03
Speaker 1: they're trying to explain who Kohlberger is. And nobody even
4:06
Speaker 1: planned on doing it. But once again, it's part of
4:09
Speaker 1: the narrative building, right? Let's build this narrative. Let's make
4:12
Speaker 1: it look like Brian Kohlberger is being absolutely railroaded. And
4:16
Speaker 1: then a couple of jerk-offs will pick up on it
4:18
Speaker 1: and they'll try and be Turtle Boy. That's basically what
4:21
Speaker 1: you have. You have people looking to benefit here, people grifting,
4:25
Speaker 1: and people trying to get some money by being contrarian,
4:29
Speaker 1: even though the evidence is pointing us somewhere else. So
4:31
Speaker 1: I'm not going to make pretend that we have some
4:33
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, groundbreaking evidence here, or that Brian
4:37
Speaker 1: Kohlberger's team is making moves because they're not. And anybody
4:40
Speaker 1: telling you that they are is lying to you, either
4:43
Speaker 1: trying to feed your bias or trying to get some
4:46
Speaker 1: clicks on their shit to get that ad revenue. Because
4:49
Speaker 1: I have a hard time believing some of these people
4:51
Speaker 1: even believe the things that they're saying. A doctor being
4:54
Speaker 1: used as a witness by the defense also agreed to
4:57
Speaker 1: hand over her findings on Brian Koberger's psychological state following
5:01
Speaker 1: a motion to preclude the death penalty based on the
5:03
Speaker 1: former Washington State University student's autism diagnosis. All of a
5:08
Speaker 1: sudden they want us to believe that Brian Koberger is
5:10
Speaker 1: neurodivergent like Gus Wall's son or something. That autism sure
5:14
Speaker 1: didn't stand in the way of him getting that PhD
5:16
Speaker 1: or getting close to it, did it? He got a
5:19
Speaker 1: college degree, didn't he? So please, stop with the autism stuff.
5:23
Speaker 1: The autism didn't cause him to kill anybody, allegedly. If
5:26
Speaker 1: he did it, it's because he's a piece of shit.
5:29
Speaker 1: I know, breaking news, right? Kohlberger's defense team also asked
5:35
Speaker 1: for inflammatory evidence to be left out of the trial,
5:37
Speaker 1: such as excessive use of crime scene pictures, but Hippler
5:41
Speaker 1: said he expects the evidence to reflect... The brutal and
5:44
Speaker 1: horrific nature of the murders. Can you imagine even making
5:48
Speaker 1: that ask? Well, we know we're here for a murder trial,
5:51
Speaker 1: but let's not show any of the pictures. Let's not
5:53
Speaker 1: show any of the evidence. Because, you know, it's discriminatory
5:56
Speaker 1: towards our client. You know, the guy that's on trial
5:59
Speaker 1: for murdering four college kids who were in their beds? Yeah,
6:02
Speaker 1: that dude. A request from defense attorneys to have Kohlberger's
6:07
Speaker 1: 2020 DeSales University essay about crime scene handling excluded from
6:11
Speaker 1: trial was denied. And I think that's a gigantic ruling
6:15
Speaker 1: that people aren't even talking about. That's going to loom large.
6:18
Speaker 1: It lays foundation. And it shows the jurors that Brian
6:22
Speaker 1: Kohlberger not only knew how to secure a crime scene,
6:25
Speaker 1: but knew how to clean one up. I know, not
6:27
Speaker 1: a big deal, right? I guess if you're somebody sending
6:30
Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger love letters, it's not a big deal. But
6:33
Speaker 1: for the rest of us, that is very, very damning
6:36
Speaker 1: evidence when added with all the other evidence that has
6:39
Speaker 1: been collected. During the hearing on April 9th, defense attorneys
6:42
Speaker 1: also pushed to have audio from the 911 call made
6:45
Speaker 1: by the victim's roommate excluded from the trial. Hipler said
6:49
Speaker 1: he'd consider only allowing a redacted version of the call
6:52
Speaker 1: to be aired during trial, but said he'll likely allow
6:55
Speaker 1: the 911 call audio to be played. And I have
6:58
Speaker 1: no doubt that Judge Hipler is going to admit that
7:02
Speaker 1: call And we're going to get to hear it. And
7:04
Speaker 1: we're going to get to see it at trial. Now,
7:06
Speaker 1: it might be redacted. There's some legalese there that has
7:10
Speaker 1: to be addressed. So we'll have to see what the
7:13
Speaker 1: final product is. But some version of that 911 call
7:17
Speaker 1: will be admitted as evidence. Hipler said that he'd rule
7:21
Speaker 1: on some motions after the hearing. Former FBI Special Agent
7:24
Speaker 1: Jonathan Gilliam told Fox News Digital that he thinks Kohlberger's
7:28
Speaker 1: defense team is focused on creating doubt for future jurors. Well, yeah,
7:32
Speaker 1: that's their job. That's exactly what they're doing. The idea
7:37
Speaker 1: is to build this narrative. And to do that, you
7:40
Speaker 1: have to have these kinds of motions, right? The so-called
7:43
Speaker 1: bombshell motions that are going to get the carnival barkers
7:46
Speaker 1: barking and people talking about it. And they've done a
7:49
Speaker 1: pretty good job doing that, but it's not going to
7:51
Speaker 1: be enough. Former FBI special agent Jonathan Gilliam told Fox
7:57
Speaker 1: News Digital he thinks Kohlberger's defense team is focused on creating...
8:01
Speaker 1: doubt of future jurors. It's important to realize that the
8:04
Speaker 1: defense are not focused on his guilt or innocence. They're
8:07
Speaker 1: focused on showing or creating the illusion that the prosecution
8:11
Speaker 1: does not have a strong enough case to convict, Gilliam said.
8:15
Speaker 1: Whether or not these defense attorneys believe that Brian Koberger
8:18
Speaker 1: didn't murder these four individuals or not is irrelevant to
8:21
Speaker 1: the defense. That's true, 100%. Their job is to create
8:26
Speaker 1: enough reasonable doubt that one or two jurors decide that
8:29
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger is not the man that they're looking for.
8:33
Speaker 1: The problem for the defense is they're nowhere near being
8:37
Speaker 1: at that point in my opinion. The defense is trying
8:40
Speaker 1: to influence the court so that the court ends up
8:42
Speaker 1: creating a barrier or a hurdle for the prosecution, he added.
8:47
Speaker 1: During the April 9th hearing, defense attorney Ann Taylor attempted
8:50
Speaker 1: to argue that the prosecution is intentionally slow-walking discovery, but
8:54
Speaker 1: later admitted that all requests from the defense have been provided.
8:59
Speaker 1: So this is the game that Ann Taylor has been
9:00
Speaker 1: playing for quite some time, and it's what the little
9:03
Speaker 1: carnival barking jerk-offs pick up on and start yapping about.
9:06
Speaker 1: Unfortunately for Ann Taylor and the defense, rational people just
9:10
Speaker 1: go and look at the court documents for themselves and
9:12
Speaker 1: see that the narrative being pitched is, well, not exactly truthful.
9:17
Speaker 1: Gilliam said this was another attempt from Taylor to try
9:20
Speaker 1: and delay the process even more. They've been able to
9:23
Speaker 1: stall it over and over again, Gilliam said, of Taylor's
9:26
Speaker 1: courtroom tactics. And I wonder if they're trying to do
9:29
Speaker 1: that to put distance enough where they can get a
9:32
Speaker 1: more sympathetic jury where they hope that some of the
9:34
Speaker 1: evidentiary stuff can be thrown out because it's not as
9:37
Speaker 1: crystal clear as the prosecution wants. There's a little bit
9:41
Speaker 1: of that going on for sure. The longer the time period,
9:44
Speaker 1: the more chance things go wrong for the prosecution. Evidence
9:48
Speaker 1: can get lost. People can die. You know how it goes.
9:51
Speaker 1: So yeah, for Brian Kohlberger, the more delays, the better.
9:56
Speaker 1: Former homicide detective and Fox News contributor Ted Williams told
9:59
Speaker 1: Fox News Digital that Kohlberger's defense team is trying to
10:03
Speaker 1: do everything they can to pull calls in the prosecutor's arguments.
10:08
Speaker 1: What they're doing is they're throwing any and everything they
10:11
Speaker 1: can against the wall, and they're hoping that something will stick,
10:13
Speaker 1: Williams said. But there is overwhelming evidence that put Brian
10:17
Speaker 1: Kohlberger not only in the house, but evidence that show
10:20
Speaker 1: that it's more likely than not that he is the
10:22
Speaker 1: killer of these four young students. A jury trial is
10:25
Speaker 1: scheduled for August 11th. So look, it's going to be
10:29
Speaker 1: a long, arduous road till we get there, and you
10:32
Speaker 1: can expect a very fiery back and forth from both sides.
10:37
Speaker 1: The problem for Ann Taylor and company is they really
10:39
Speaker 1: don't have anything to go on. They can make all
10:42
Speaker 1: of these allegations, and they can make all of these
10:45
Speaker 1: statements with these motions, But once we get into the courtroom,
10:48
Speaker 1: none of it's held up. And we're not talking about
10:50
Speaker 1: just once or twice. We're talking about pretty much every
10:52
Speaker 1: single time they've made a big allegation. But I don't
10:56
Speaker 1: think that's going to stop them from employing this strategy
10:59
Speaker 1: as they continue to look for any way to try
11:01
Speaker 1: and get Brian Kohlberger off from these charges. All right, folks,
11:06
Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. All of
11:08
Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
11:11
Speaker 1: in the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome back
11:14
Speaker 1: to the program. In this episode, we're going to spin
11:17
Speaker 1: right back out to Moscow and we're going to talk
11:19
Speaker 1: a little bit more about Brian Koberger and some of
11:22
Speaker 1: the new information that's being revealed. Previously, we learned that
11:26
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger allegedly purchased a K-Bar knife on Amazon. And
11:31
Speaker 1: now we're learning, according to new court filings, that Brian
11:34
Speaker 1: Koberger allegedly also purchased a baklava at Dick's Sporting Goods.
11:39
Speaker 1: And remember, when we're looking at this, we have to
11:41
Speaker 1: look at the totality of the evidence, not just one incident.
11:45
Speaker 1: Not just him buying this baklava at Dick's Sporting Goods.
11:49
Speaker 1: Not just the purchase of the K-Bar knife. It's all
11:53
Speaker 1: of that circumstantial evidence that's glued together and underpinned by
11:58
Speaker 1: the DNA evidence that was found at the crime scene.
12:00
Speaker 1: So if things weren't bad enough for Brian Kohlberger, they
12:03
Speaker 1: keep getting worse with all this information that is being revealed.
12:07
Speaker 1: So today we have an article from DailyMail.com and the headline,
12:11
Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger's purchase at Dick's Sporting Goods offers bombshell evidence
12:15
Speaker 1: in case of murdered Idaho students. This article was authored
12:19
Speaker 1: by Brittany Chain. Brian Koberger purchased a baklava months before
12:24
Speaker 1: four Idaho students were savagely murdered inside their off-campus home.
12:30
Speaker 1: And as far as ever finding that item? Doubt it.
12:34
Speaker 1: I've said from the very beginning that I thought old
12:36
Speaker 1: boy had a burn pit on the way home. And
12:39
Speaker 1: on the way home, he got rid of all this evidence. What,
12:41
Speaker 1: he's going to bring it to his house? I mean, maybe.
12:44
Speaker 1: but I would think that a PhD student for criminology
12:47
Speaker 1: would know better. Surviving housemate Dylan Mortensen told police she
12:52
Speaker 1: saw a man wearing the same kind of mask around
12:55
Speaker 1: the time police believe Madison Mogan, Ethan Chapin, Kaylee Gonsalves,
12:59
Speaker 1: and Zanna Kernodle were all slaughtered in November of 2022.
13:04
Speaker 1: Accused killer Kohlberger desperately wanted his Dick's Sporting Goods purchase
13:08
Speaker 1: to be inadmissible in his upcoming trial, and that's a
13:11
Speaker 1: good tell when it comes to strong evidence. If somebody's
13:14
Speaker 1: going crazy trying to get the evidence kept out and suppressed,
13:18
Speaker 1: chances are that evidence is going to be devastating for them.
13:21
Speaker 1: And there's no doubt that there are several pieces of
13:24
Speaker 1: evidence that have been introduced recently that are not good
13:27
Speaker 1: for Brian Kohlberger, and that's putting it lightly. But new
13:31
Speaker 1: court documents reveal prosecutors have insisted upon using the records
13:36
Speaker 1: because it could prove crucial to their case. The relevance
13:39
Speaker 1: of this information is that Brian Kohlberger purchased the black
13:42
Speaker 1: mask from Dick's Sporting Goods on January 10th, 2022. The
13:46
Speaker 1: prosecution states, the mask is the same type of mask
13:50
Speaker 1: described by DM that she witnessed worn by the male
13:53
Speaker 1: in the residence on November 13th, 2022. So you can
13:57
Speaker 1: see why it's relevant, right? And again, remember, DM didn't
14:01
Speaker 1: see his face, but she saw all of these different characteristics,
14:05
Speaker 1: such as the bushy eyebrows and this mask So if
14:09
Speaker 1: you can trace back the fact that Brian Koberger bought
14:12
Speaker 1: a mask that is similar to this, well, what does
14:16
Speaker 1: that tell the jury? Because I know that if I
14:18
Speaker 1: was sitting on the jury and I saw all of
14:20
Speaker 1: this evidence, all this circumstantial evidence that was underpinned by
14:24
Speaker 1: the DNA, there'd be no way that I could look
14:26
Speaker 1: at Brian Koberger and say, look, bro, you're innocent. Or
14:29
Speaker 1: at the very least, they haven't proven their case beyond
14:31
Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt. Where on the flip side of that,
14:35
Speaker 1: if you listen to the podcast when I was covering
14:37
Speaker 1: the Karen Reid case, I thought that she was guilty,
14:40
Speaker 1: but I don't think that the government proved that beyond
14:43
Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt. And I think that the ruling during
14:45
Speaker 1: her first trial was the right one. But when you
14:48
Speaker 1: compare how the evidence was gathered in that case to
14:51
Speaker 1: this one, it is apples and oranges. What we see
14:54
Speaker 1: when it comes to Brian Koberger and the investigation into
14:57
Speaker 1: the murders is a very meticulous case where the process
15:01
Speaker 1: has taken a long time, but it's been methodical. So
15:05
Speaker 1: when the jury sees that, You know, the investigation when
15:07
Speaker 1: it gets pieced together for them inside of the courtroom.
15:10
Speaker 1: And then they see all the evidence that was uncovered
15:13
Speaker 1: by that investigation that was so meticulous. It's going to
15:16
Speaker 1: be very, very difficult for Brian Koberger and his team
15:19
Speaker 1: to push a different narrative, right? When all the facts
15:21
Speaker 1: are pointing in one direction and you're telling me that
15:24
Speaker 1: it was a chupacabra who murdered these four kids. Well,
15:28
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to go with reality here and
15:30
Speaker 1: follow the evidence, not your narrative. And I'm pretty sure
15:33
Speaker 1: that the jury is going to feel the same way.
15:36
Speaker 1: Kohlberger's legal team already tried and failed to have critical
15:39
Speaker 1: DNA evidence and Amazon shopping history tossed from the case.
15:43
Speaker 1: A K-Bar brown leather knife sheath featuring a U.S. Marine
15:46
Speaker 1: Corps seal had been found next to Mogan's body in
15:49
Speaker 1: her bedroom on the third floor of the home. Touched
15:52
Speaker 1: DNA on the sheath was traced back to Kohlberger using
15:55
Speaker 1: investigative genetic genealogy, according to prosecutors. Following his arrest, it
16:01
Speaker 1: was found to be a statistical match. While the murder
16:05
Speaker 1: weapon was never found, Kohlberger's Amazon shopping history reveals he
16:09
Speaker 1: bought a K-Bar knife sheath and sharpener from Amazon back
16:13
Speaker 1: in March 2022, according to a prosecution filing. And now
16:18
Speaker 1: we know why his team was going so damn crazy
16:20
Speaker 1: to try to keep all of this out. There was
16:23
Speaker 1: a point in time where I was saying to myself,
16:25
Speaker 1: it's pretty odd that they're trying to keep this, that,
16:27
Speaker 1: and the other thing out. What sort of significance does
16:31
Speaker 1: this evidence hold? And now we're learning. So they found
16:35
Speaker 1: a lot more than we were hip to. They found
16:37
Speaker 1: a whole lot more than we were hip to. And
16:40
Speaker 1: due to the gag order, we haven't learned about any
16:43
Speaker 1: of it. But now that the trial is getting so
16:45
Speaker 1: close and discovery is underway the way it is, and
16:49
Speaker 1: we've now come to a point where we can start
16:51
Speaker 1: to put the pieces together and start to make sense
16:54
Speaker 1: of some of these different situations where we didn't have
16:56
Speaker 1: the context before. Eight months later, on November 13, 2022,
17:01
Speaker 1: investigators believe this same type of knife was used to
17:04
Speaker 1: murder the four University of Idaho students. Following the murders,
17:08
Speaker 1: Kohlberger searched to buy a replacement knife and sheath, prosecutors allege.
17:13
Speaker 1: Elsewhere in the new filing is a 12-page assignment Kohlberger
17:17
Speaker 1: submitted in 2022 while studying for his criminology master's degree
17:22
Speaker 1: at DeSalas University. The chilling paper details in excruciating detail
17:27
Speaker 1: how first responders are expected to handle crime scene using
17:31
Speaker 1: the made-up example of a deceased white female. Again, circumstantial.
17:35
Speaker 1: But I'm sure the jury's gonna love hearing all of this. Look,
17:39
Speaker 1: it's my opinion that bro has had these ideations for
17:42
Speaker 1: quite some time. And then for whatever reason, whatever made
17:45
Speaker 1: him snap, he went on this murdering spree and murdered
17:48
Speaker 1: these four kids. And the most frustrating part about all
17:51
Speaker 1: of it is we'll probably never know the motive. will
17:54
Speaker 1: probably not have any idea ever as to why this
17:58
Speaker 1: dude did what he did allegedly. I should make sure
18:01
Speaker 1: to swab under her fingernails to see if DNA of
18:04
Speaker 1: the offender is there. She likely dug into their skin,
18:07
Speaker 1: he wrote. Surveillance footage is circumstantial evidence, but may lead
18:11
Speaker 1: investigators in the right direction and the apprehension of the suspect.
18:15
Speaker 1: This may be the work of a serial killer, though
18:17
Speaker 1: this is highly unlikely. So this dude was writing all
18:21
Speaker 1: these papers. knew everything he should be doing as far
18:24
Speaker 1: as being a killer, if you will. And then you
18:27
Speaker 1: add to that that the knife sheath from the knife
18:29
Speaker 1: that he allegedly purchased on Amazon was found at the
18:32
Speaker 1: crime scene under the body of one of these dead
18:35
Speaker 1: girls with his DNA on it. So as this bigger
18:38
Speaker 1: picture emerges, it is just all bad for Brian Koberger.
18:42
Speaker 1: Kohlberger concluded his paper by arguing that if all steps
18:46
Speaker 1: laid out or followed correctly, defense should not be able
18:48
Speaker 1: to discredit the investigation and render evidence inadmissible. Prosecutors argue
18:54
Speaker 1: it displays his immense crime scene knowledge. Well, there's no doubt. Like,
18:59
Speaker 1: we know that he was a PhD student in criminology,
19:02
Speaker 1: so we can't be stupid when it comes to this
19:04
Speaker 1: sort of thing, right? At least you would not think so.
19:07
Speaker 1: So when we see papers like this, and we hear
19:09
Speaker 1: information like this, It just reinforces my opinion that Brian
19:13
Speaker 1: Kohlberger knew exactly what he was doing at the time
19:15
Speaker 1: that he was doing allegedly what he did. And it
19:18
Speaker 1: was obviously premeditated. So if you're looking for evil, this
19:22
Speaker 1: is it. With his trial looming, the defense has been
19:25
Speaker 1: filing a string of motions to get key evidence tossed
19:28
Speaker 1: from the case and to get the death penalty taken
19:30
Speaker 1: off the table. In the new court filings, Kohlberger is
19:33
Speaker 1: now seeking to also limit his bank records, PayPal and
19:36
Speaker 1: Venmo records, and the bank records of the victim's being
19:39
Speaker 1: presented at trial. It's not clear what contents of these
19:42
Speaker 1: records show or what relevance they may have to the
19:45
Speaker 1: prosecution's case. My speculation is it's a trail. A financial
19:50
Speaker 1: trail leading directly to Brian Koberger, all these purchases, and
19:54
Speaker 1: when added up with all the pings on the tower,
19:56
Speaker 1: with the surveillance video, and then with, obviously, the DNA,
20:00
Speaker 1: I honestly don't know if I've ever seen a more
20:02
Speaker 1: overwhelming case. Like, I knew that Lori Vallow was cooked, right?
20:06
Speaker 1: There was no doubt that she was done for. but
20:08
Speaker 1: the evidence here is even more overwhelming. And we all
20:11
Speaker 1: know how it ended for Lori Vallow. If it wasn't
20:14
Speaker 1: for a prosecutorial misstep along the way when it comes
20:17
Speaker 1: to discovery, her ass would be on death row too.
20:20
Speaker 1: And as far as Brian Koberger goes, I don't think
20:22
Speaker 1: he's going to have that Hail Mary that Lori Vallow
20:24
Speaker 1: had to help him out. The filing also points to
20:28
Speaker 1: purchases made by Koberger at sportswear company Under Armour on
20:32
Speaker 1: June 24th, 2022, five months before the Grizzly murders. Mortensen's
20:38
Speaker 1: recollection of the masked man was vague, other than noting
20:41
Speaker 1: he had bushy eyebrows. The state will use the selfie
20:44
Speaker 1: Kohlberger took just hours after he allegedly murdered the college
20:47
Speaker 1: students as part of the case against him. The extraordinary
20:51
Speaker 1: picture shows Kohlberger smirking and offering a thumbs up to
20:54
Speaker 1: the camera. The selfie appears to have been taken in
20:57
Speaker 1: a bathroom with a shower as the backdrop. I try
21:00
Speaker 1: to avoid looking at pictures and making decisions based on them,
21:04
Speaker 1: but when you add all the evidence up and you're
21:06
Speaker 1: a juror, And you see this picture? Well, it's going
21:10
Speaker 1: to come into play, and if not for any other reason,
21:13
Speaker 1: then for the bushy eyebrows. Mortensen said she saw a
21:16
Speaker 1: guy with bushy eyebrows. This picture was taken the day
21:19
Speaker 1: after the murders. Seems relevant to me. Kohlberger wears earphones
21:23
Speaker 1: and a collared long-sleeved shirt buttoned to the top in
21:26
Speaker 1: the eerie picture. Between 4.22 a.m. and 4.24 a.m. on
21:31
Speaker 1: the morning of November 13, 2022, Mortensen and the other
21:35
Speaker 1: surviving housemate, Bethany Funk, exchanged 17 frantic text messages, fearing
21:40
Speaker 1: someone was in their house. I'm not kidding. I'm so
21:44
Speaker 1: freaked out, one of the messages read. Over three separate messages,
21:47
Speaker 1: Funk responded, come to my room, run, down here. Soon
21:51
Speaker 1: after seeing the intruder, Mortensen went downstairs to Funk's room,
21:55
Speaker 1: and the two roommates fell asleep there. Kohlberger has so
21:58
Speaker 1: far offered up a vague alibi for the night of
22:00
Speaker 1: the murders, claiming he was driving around at night looking
22:03
Speaker 1: at stars. No witnesses can corroborate where he was, his
22:07
Speaker 1: attorney Ann Taylor admitted, in a court filing. Well, that's convenient, huh?
22:11
Speaker 1: Especially considering we know what the conditions were that night.
22:14
Speaker 1: So you can save the whole stargazing nonsense for somebody else.
22:18
Speaker 1: Because I don't think anybody who's following along with this
22:20
Speaker 1: story is buying it. Alright folks, that's going to do
22:24
Speaker 1: it for this one. All of the information that goes
22:26
Speaker 1: with this episode, including my contact information, can be found
22:30
Speaker 1: in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome back
22:34
Speaker 1: to the program. It's been almost a year since the
22:38
Speaker 1: murders in Moscow took place, and we have traveled quite
22:41
Speaker 1: the road since that time. So in today's episode, we're
22:45
Speaker 1: gonna go back and we're gonna take a look at
22:47
Speaker 1: the timeline from the day the murders occurred all the
22:51
Speaker 1: way up until the trial was delayed. To do that,
22:55
Speaker 1: we have an article from CBS and the headline, Idaho
22:59
Speaker 1: Student Murders, A Timeline of the Killings and investigation. This
23:04
Speaker 1: article was authored by Jordan Kinsey. November 13th, 2022. Off-campus murders.
23:13
Speaker 1: Four University of Idaho students are found dead in their
23:16
Speaker 1: off-campus home where three of the victims lived in Moscow, Idaho.
23:20
Speaker 1: They had been brutally stabbed to death. The victims are
23:24
Speaker 1: identified as Ethan Chapin, 20, of Conway, Washington, Madison Mogan, 21,
23:31
Speaker 1: of Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, Zanna Kernodle, 20, of Avondale, Arizona,
23:36
Speaker 1: and Kaylee Gonsalves, 21, of Rathdrum, Idaho. And when I
23:41
Speaker 1: first heard about this story, my first thought was that
23:45
Speaker 1: it was somebody that was close to them. And then
23:47
Speaker 1: we heard about Kaylee and Madison making all of those
23:50
Speaker 1: phone calls to somebody named Jack in the middle of
23:53
Speaker 1: the night. And yeah, I thought it was going to
23:55
Speaker 1: end up being whoever this Jack guy was. But we
23:59
Speaker 1: now know that that's not the case. And while in
24:02
Speaker 1: the vast majority of cases such as this, the person
24:05
Speaker 1: that murdered somebody else is known to that person, there
24:09
Speaker 1: are times when it's even crazier and when it's a
24:12
Speaker 1: stranger who doesn't even know anybody in the house who
24:16
Speaker 1: ends up being the person who's responsible for murdering everybody
24:20
Speaker 1: in the house. No rhyme, no reason. And certainly no
24:24
Speaker 1: explanation for why these murders occurred. November 15th, 2022. The
24:31
Speaker 1: murder weapon. The Moscow Police Department issues a statement saying
24:35
Speaker 1: an edge weapon, such as a knife, was used in
24:37
Speaker 1: the killings. No murder weapon has been found. And I'm
24:41
Speaker 1: convinced that Brian Koberger got rid of that knife on
24:44
Speaker 1: the drive home. Remember he took that extended route? And
24:48
Speaker 1: I'm guessing the reason he did that was to get
24:50
Speaker 1: rid of evidence, have a nice little burn pit, get
24:53
Speaker 1: rid of the knife, and try and hide his involvement
24:57
Speaker 1: in what happened. Let's not forget that he was a
25:00
Speaker 1: criminology PhD. You don't think he knows how to hide transfer?
25:05
Speaker 1: You don't think he knows about evidence collection? He knows
25:08
Speaker 1: about all of it. So in Brian Kohlberger's case... And
25:11
Speaker 1: in his mind, he was saying to himself, if I
25:14
Speaker 1: can get rid of all of this evidence, maybe just
25:17
Speaker 1: maybe if I get caught, there'll be enough reasonable doubt
25:21
Speaker 1: for the jury to listen to my narrative. So he
25:24
Speaker 1: does this long extended trip home and from there gets
25:29
Speaker 1: rid of this evidence. That's why they've never found the knife.
25:32
Speaker 1: And that's why they're never going to find the knife.
25:35
Speaker 1: November 16th, 2022, police press conference. The Moscow Police Department
25:41
Speaker 1: holds a press conference about the murders. Police Chief James
25:45
Speaker 1: Fry says it was a targeted attack. We do not
25:48
Speaker 1: have a suspect at this time, and that individual is
25:52
Speaker 1: still out there. And there was a lot of mixed
25:54
Speaker 1: messaging in the beginning of all of this, before the
25:57
Speaker 1: investigators had their ducks in a row. A lot of miscommunication,
26:01
Speaker 1: and it caused some panic, it caused some fear, and
26:04
Speaker 1: it also caused some conspiracy theories to run rampant. And
26:08
Speaker 1: they only have themselves to blame for that early on.
26:11
Speaker 1: But what I will say is this. They address the
26:14
Speaker 1: issues moving forward. And when they started doing the news
26:17
Speaker 1: conferences instead and having the press releases come out, that
26:21
Speaker 1: was a master stroke by the investigators to keep everything
26:25
Speaker 1: in line and to keep all of the information flowing.
26:28
Speaker 1: November 17th, 2022. Cause of death. The Latah County Coroner's
26:34
Speaker 1: Office reports the victims were likely asleep when they were
26:37
Speaker 1: stabbed with a large knife. Some even had defensive wounds. Well,
26:42
Speaker 1: we now know that that's not the case. We know
26:46
Speaker 1: for sure that Zanna was awake. We know for sure
26:49
Speaker 1: that Ethan woke up. And chances are that Kaylee woke
26:54
Speaker 1: up as well, and Madison. So, my guess is, Most
26:58
Speaker 1: of these kids were awake when this all went down.
27:01
Speaker 1: And the fact that a couple of them at least
27:03
Speaker 1: had defensive wounds tells you that. November 18th, 2022. Tracing
27:08
Speaker 1: the victims' final steps. Police released an aerial map showing
27:13
Speaker 1: the times and locations where the victims on the night
27:16
Speaker 1: of November 12th, 2022 and in the early hours of
27:19
Speaker 1: November 13th, 2022. Kaylee Gonsalves and Madison Mogan were at
27:24
Speaker 1: the Corner Club between 10 p.m. and 1.30 a.m., and
27:28
Speaker 1: then headed to a food truck at 1.40 a.m. Ethan
27:33
Speaker 1: Chapin and Zanna Kernodle attended a Sigma Chi party between
27:37
Speaker 1: 8 to 9 p.m. and were home at 1.45 a.m.
27:41
Speaker 1: November 19, 2022. The hunt for a suspect. Investigators say
27:47
Speaker 1: they do not believe the driver who brought two of
27:50
Speaker 1: the victims, Kaylee Gonsalves and Madison Mogan, home on the
27:54
Speaker 1: night of the murders is involved in the crimes. And
27:57
Speaker 1: he definitely wasn't, obviously. But after this all took place,
28:01
Speaker 1: they wanted to talk to him. And you know, the
28:03
Speaker 1: media certainly wanted to know who the driver was. But
28:07
Speaker 1: after he gave his interview and the police spoke with him,
28:10
Speaker 1: it was rather obvious that this guy had nothing to
28:12
Speaker 1: do with it. November 20th, 2022. Others cleared. Detectives say
28:18
Speaker 1: they do not believe the surviving roommates or friends visiting
28:21
Speaker 1: the house at the time of the murders are involved.
28:25
Speaker 1: And of course, there was all that talk in the
28:27
Speaker 1: beginning about the roommates being involved or it being a
28:30
Speaker 1: drug deal gone bad. All kinds of silly stuff. November 22nd, 2022.
28:37
Speaker 1: Possible stalker? Investigators looked extensively at information received about one
28:42
Speaker 1: of the victims, Kaylee Gonsalves, having a stalker. They have
28:46
Speaker 1: not been able to verify or identify a stalker. Well,
28:50
Speaker 1: this is pervasive and we heard it several times and
28:54
Speaker 1: from several people. So my guess is Kaylee had some
28:57
Speaker 1: kind of stalker. November 25th, 2022. Physical evidence. To this date,
29:04
Speaker 1: investigators collected 113 pieces of physical evidence and sent it
29:09
Speaker 1: to the Idaho State Police Crime Lab. Idaho Governor Brad
29:13
Speaker 1: Little has directed up to $ 1 million in funds for
29:17
Speaker 1: the ongoing investigation. November 30th, 2022. Vigil for the students.
29:25
Speaker 1: The University of Idaho holds a vigil in honor of
29:28
Speaker 1: the murdered students. The most important message that we have
29:32
Speaker 1: for you and your families is to spend as much
29:34
Speaker 1: time as possible with those people. Stacey Chapin, the mother
29:38
Speaker 1: of victim Ethan Chapin, tells those who gathered. December 7th, 2022.
29:44
Speaker 1: A potential clue. Police announced they are interested in speaking
29:48
Speaker 1: with the driver of a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra, spotted
29:54
Speaker 1: near the crime scene at the time of the murders.
29:57
Speaker 1: At a later date, the search was expanded to include
30:00
Speaker 1: Elantras from 2011 to 2016. And once the police announced
30:06
Speaker 1: the Elantra, the hunt was on. And there were over
30:09
Speaker 1: 90 Hyundai Elantras that fit these parameters that were registered
30:14
Speaker 1: at Washington State University. So they had their work cut
30:17
Speaker 1: out for them. December 15th, 2022. Traffic stop. A trooper's
30:24
Speaker 1: body cam captures a white Hyundai Elantra being stopped twice
30:27
Speaker 1: in Indiana for driving violations. The driver is 28-year-old Brian Koberger,
30:33
Speaker 1: who is accompanied by his father. They were driving home
30:36
Speaker 1: from Washington State University for winter break to the family's
30:40
Speaker 1: home in Pennsylvania. And there was a lot of talk
30:43
Speaker 1: about whether the FBI was behind them getting pulled over.
30:47
Speaker 1: The FBI, to this day, has denied it. December 18th, 2022.
30:53
Speaker 1: Footage released. Surveillance footage emerges of victims Kaylee Gonsalves and
30:58
Speaker 1: Madison Mogan hours before the killings walking through downtown discussing
31:03
Speaker 1: a man named Adam. He is not considered a suspect.
31:07
Speaker 1: December 20th, 2022. The search for vehicle of interest. Investigators
31:13
Speaker 1: speak to an owner of a Hyundai Elantra located in Eugene, Oregon.
31:17
Speaker 1: The vehicle was involved in a collision and was impounded.
31:20
Speaker 1: The owner is believed to not have any connection to Moscow, Idaho.
31:24
Speaker 1: So the hunt was on at this point. Everybody was
31:27
Speaker 1: looking for the Elantra. And when there was an Elantra
31:30
Speaker 1: that was found up in Eugene, people wanted to know
31:33
Speaker 1: if it might have been involved with the murders in Moscow.
31:37
Speaker 1: And obviously it ended up being not involved. December 30th, 2022,
31:42
Speaker 1: an arrest. Police announced Brian Koberger's arrest in Albrightville, Pennsylvania
31:48
Speaker 1: for the murders of the University of Idaho students. He
31:52
Speaker 1: is being charged with burglary and four counts of first-degree murder.
31:56
Speaker 1: Kohlberger was a Ph.D. student at Washington State University, which
32:01
Speaker 1: is located roughly eight miles from the murder scene in Moscow, Idaho.
32:06
Speaker 1: Law enforcement say they were able to use forensic analysis
32:09
Speaker 1: to connect Kohlberger to the crime scene. And there's no
32:13
Speaker 1: doubt that they have him pinned. The buccal swab. The
32:17
Speaker 1: blood on the sheath. It's all bad for Brian Kohlberger
32:20
Speaker 1: when we're talking about DNA. January 3rd, 2023. Extradition hearing.
32:27
Speaker 1: At a hearing in Pennsylvania, Koberger waives his extradition to Moscow, Idaho.
32:32
Speaker 1: January 4th, 2023. Suspect arrives in Idaho. Brian Koberger is
32:38
Speaker 1: brought to Idaho. The judge issues a gag order, which
32:42
Speaker 1: prohibits officials and others involved in the case from speaking
32:45
Speaker 1: about it. January 5th, 2023. Court documents are released. Public
32:52
Speaker 1: officials released an affidavit in the case against Brian Kohlberger.
32:56
Speaker 1: Among the findings, a witness claims she saw a figure
32:59
Speaker 1: of 5'10 or taller, male, not very muscular, dressed in
33:03
Speaker 1: black clothing and a mask on the night of the murders.
33:06
Speaker 1: She said the masked figure walked toward the back sliding
33:09
Speaker 1: glass door and she locked herself in a room. The
33:13
Speaker 1: DNA found on the button snap of a leather knife
33:15
Speaker 1: sheath at the crime scene appears to be a strong
33:18
Speaker 1: match with DNA found in a trash and at the
33:21
Speaker 1: Koberger family residence in Albrightville, Pennsylvania. Investigators believe the homicides
33:26
Speaker 1: occurred between 4 a.m. and 4.25 a.m. Koberger applied for
33:32
Speaker 1: an internship with the Pullman Police Department, and in his
33:36
Speaker 1: application essay, he said that he had an interest in
33:39
Speaker 1: assisting in rural law enforcement agencies without a better collect
33:42
Speaker 1: and analyze technological data. Investigators checked the movements of Koberger's phone,
33:49
Speaker 1: And it stops reporting a signal at 2.47 a.m. and
33:53
Speaker 1: appears to turn back on at 4.48 a.m. This means
33:57
Speaker 1: the phone may have been in the area without cell
33:59
Speaker 1: coverage or the phone was turned off. And again, knowing
34:03
Speaker 1: what Koberger was, PhD student, criminologist, all the rest of it,
34:07
Speaker 1: he would know about phones. He'd know to turn that
34:09
Speaker 1: bad boy off. January 12th, 2023. Koberger appears in court.
34:16
Speaker 1: A preliminary hearing for Brian Koberger was set for June 26.
34:20
Speaker 1: He waived his right to a speedy preliminary hearing with
34:23
Speaker 1: his defense team asking the court for time to prepare
34:27
Speaker 1: for the case. May 5th, 2023. Koberger stopped by police
34:32
Speaker 1: a month before killings. Newly released body cam video shows
34:36
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger being pulled over for allegedly running a red
34:40
Speaker 1: light about a month before the killings. The video shows
34:43
Speaker 1: campus police at Washington State University stopping Kohlberger on October 14, 2022,
34:50
Speaker 1: in Pullman, the Idaho statesman reported, the officer eventually lets
34:55
Speaker 1: him go with a warning. May 17, 2023, Kohlberger gets indicted.
35:02
Speaker 1: A grand jury indicted Brian Kohlberger on four counts of
35:05
Speaker 1: first-degree murder and felony burglary for his alleged involvement in
35:09
Speaker 1: the killings. The same four murder charges he was already facing.
35:15
Speaker 1: May 22nd, 2023. Judge enters not guilty pleas on Koberger's behalf.
35:22
Speaker 1: At his arraignment, a judge entered a not guilty plea
35:25
Speaker 1: on Brian Koberger's behalf after Koberger did not respond in
35:28
Speaker 1: court when the judge asked him how he pleaded to
35:31
Speaker 1: the charges brought against him. And that was all because
35:36
Speaker 1: he wanted to challenge the grand jury indictment. That's why
35:39
Speaker 1: he stood in silence. June 21st, 2023. A DNA match.
35:45
Speaker 1: A DNA sample taken from Brian Kohlberger's revealed a near
35:49
Speaker 1: exact match to the DNA found on a knife sheath
35:52
Speaker 1: at the scene of the quadruple murder in Idaho. According
35:56
Speaker 1: to new court documents, DNA found on the sheath was
36:00
Speaker 1: initially compared to DNA from trash recovered outside the Kohlberger
36:04
Speaker 1: family home in Albrightville, Pennsylvania last year. A cheek swab
36:09
Speaker 1: taken from Kohlberger allowed for another more direct DNA comparison.
36:13
Speaker 1: And that bugle swab is what really sunk them. The
36:16
Speaker 1: second they match it to your cheek swab, you're done for.
36:20
Speaker 1: June 26, 2023. Prosecutors to pursue the death penalty. Prosecutors
36:26
Speaker 1: have decided to pursue the death penalty for Brian Koberger,
36:30
Speaker 1: the man accused of murdering four University of Idaho students
36:34
Speaker 1: in November. And they should have. They definitely should have
36:37
Speaker 1: pursued the death penalty here, and I'm glad that they're
36:40
Speaker 1: going to. August 3, 2023. alibi claim revealed. Attorneys for
36:47
Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger claimed that he was going for a routine
36:49
Speaker 1: drive when the killings took place, according to new court filings.
36:54
Speaker 1: On August 3rd, Kohlberger's attorneys objected to the state's request
36:58
Speaker 1: for an alibi of his whereabouts on the night of
37:00
Speaker 1: the murders. In the documents, his attorneys claim Mr. Kohlberger
37:04
Speaker 1: has had a long habit of going for drives alone,
37:08
Speaker 1: and that he did so on the night and morning
37:10
Speaker 1: of the brutal killings. Kohlberger's attorneys said in the documents
37:14
Speaker 1: that witnesses may be able to testify he wasn't at
37:18
Speaker 1: the scene of the crime. State law requires defendants to
37:22
Speaker 1: declare if they will present an alibi. He has no witnesses.
37:26
Speaker 1: There's not going to be one single person that corroborates
37:29
Speaker 1: his bullshit. August 18th, 2023. Defense questions validity of Nice
37:35
Speaker 1: Sheath DNA. At a court hearing, Brian Koberger's defense Questioned
37:40
Speaker 1: the validity of DNA, found on a knife sheath at
37:42
Speaker 1: the crime scene that authorities allege connected him to the
37:46
Speaker 1: four murders. Defense attorneys demanded more information from prosecutors about
37:51
Speaker 1: the DNA. Prosecutors countered that they have handed over what
37:55
Speaker 1: they have. The judge denied a request by Koberger's defense
37:58
Speaker 1: team to delay the trial, which remains slated to begin
38:02
Speaker 1: as scheduled in October. August 23, 2023. Trial postponed. Brian
38:09
Speaker 1: Koberger's trial will not happen as scheduled on October 2nd.
38:13
Speaker 1: Koberger waived his right to a speedy trial during his
38:16
Speaker 1: appearance in Latah County Court. CBS affiliate KBOITV reported his
38:22
Speaker 1: attorney Ann Taylor spoke on his behalf and said she
38:26
Speaker 1: may not be ready for the trial by October. Latah
38:29
Speaker 1: County Prosecutor Bill Thompson has said he intends to seek
38:32
Speaker 1: the death penalty. During the court appearance, Taylor said her
38:36
Speaker 1: team will file a motion to strike the death penalty
38:39
Speaker 1: And will file another motion seeking to ban cameras in
38:42
Speaker 1: the courtroom. And all of that stuff has occurred. And
38:46
Speaker 1: she has made those motions. They're trying to get the
38:48
Speaker 1: cameras banned in the courtroom. But none of that has
38:51
Speaker 1: come to resolution yet. And Judge Judge is still taking
38:55
Speaker 1: a look at all of these different requests. So as
38:59
Speaker 1: of now, that's where we stand. That's where things are at.
39:03
Speaker 1: And hopefully, when we get to the next hearing... That
39:06
Speaker 1: was delayed due to illness. We have a better grip
39:09
Speaker 1: on what's going down and where things are going. All right, folks,
39:15
Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. All of
39:16
Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode, including my contact information,
39:21
Speaker 1: can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
39:25
Speaker 1: and welcome back to the program. Brian Kovach. and the
39:31
Speaker 1: evidence against him has certainly piled up. However, all of
39:35
Speaker 1: it is circumstantial in nature, at least to this point,
39:39
Speaker 1: as far as the public's concerned. But some of that
39:43
Speaker 1: information that has been released to the public is very strong.
39:48
Speaker 1: and some of the strongest of that evidence, the DNA evidence,
39:53
Speaker 1: is being tied together with cell phone records that were
39:57
Speaker 1: used to put Brian Koberger at the scene of the
39:59
Speaker 1: crime multiple times leading up to it and even afterwards.
40:07
Speaker 1: So in this episode, we're going to hear from more
40:10
Speaker 1: experts who are talking about the cell phone records and
40:13
Speaker 1: how the cell phone records could possibly help the prosecution
40:17
Speaker 1: get to pay dirt, and secure a conviction. Today's article
40:22
Speaker 1: was published by Newsweek and the headline, How Brian Koberger's
40:27
Speaker 1: Cell Phone Records Could Be Used Against Him. This article
40:31
Speaker 1: was authored by Kalita Rockman. It will be months before
40:37
Speaker 1: prosecutors try to show a judge that they have enough
40:40
Speaker 1: evidence to justify the charges against Brian Koberger, and experts
40:44
Speaker 1: have told Newsweek that the cell phone data could be
40:48
Speaker 1: instrumental in providing that evidence. And it's going to be very,
40:53
Speaker 1: very crucial what they come back with when they really
40:56
Speaker 1: go into that phone. All of those GPS coordinates, all
41:00
Speaker 1: of the stuff, the internal stuff, not just the pings, right?
41:03
Speaker 1: The connecting to the cell phone tower, that's a lot
41:06
Speaker 1: easier to explain than, say, if your phone connected to
41:09
Speaker 1: somebody's Wi-Fi. We all know that Wi-Fi doesn't go that
41:13
Speaker 1: far away. And when you leave your house, it's not
41:16
Speaker 1: long before you drop your Wi-Fi. And if you leave
41:19
Speaker 1: it on Rome, you'll pick it up on somebody else's house, maybe. Now,
41:23
Speaker 1: it might not connect if it's a private connection, but
41:26
Speaker 1: it will register that it was connected to that Wi-Fi router. Look,
41:30
Speaker 1: these guys that go into these phones and get to
41:33
Speaker 1: forensically snooping around, they're good at what they do. And
41:36
Speaker 1: more times than not, they find what they're looking for.
41:39
Speaker 1: So if any of that happened and Brian Koberger's phone
41:42
Speaker 1: connected or anything like that, They're going to have that
41:45
Speaker 1: information and they're going to use it against them. Koberger, 28,
41:50
Speaker 1: is accused of breaking into a rental home in Moscow, Idaho,
41:53
Speaker 1: in the early hours of November 13th and fatally stabbing
41:57
Speaker 1: four University of Idaho students, Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna
42:02
Speaker 1: Kernodle and Ethan Chapin. He is facing four counts of
42:06
Speaker 1: first degree murder and one count of felony burglary. He
42:10
Speaker 1: has not entered a plea, but a lawyer who represented
42:13
Speaker 1: him previously said Koberger was eager to be exonerated. The
42:18
Speaker 1: preliminary hearing is set to begin on June 26th. And
42:23
Speaker 1: this trial is going to be an absolute zoo. There's
42:26
Speaker 1: going to be a ton of members of the media,
42:28
Speaker 1: a ton of members of the independent media, content creators.
42:32
Speaker 1: You know, there's going to be psychics and all the
42:35
Speaker 1: rest of the carnival barkers showing up to have their
42:38
Speaker 1: five minutes of fame. A probable cause affidavit, unsealed in
42:43
Speaker 1: early January, revealed that investigators obtained Koberger's cell phone records
42:48
Speaker 1: after police officers at Washington State University, where he was
42:52
Speaker 1: a doctoral candidate in criminology, identified a white 2015 Hyundai
42:58
Speaker 1: Elantra registered to him. It matched the description of a
43:02
Speaker 1: vehicle that had been seen near the scene of the
43:05
Speaker 1: crime on the night of the killings. The affidavit said
43:09
Speaker 1: Koberger's phone was either turned off or on airplane mode
43:14
Speaker 1: around the time of the killings, but the data right
43:17
Speaker 1: before it was turned off, suggested he was heading in
43:20
Speaker 1: the direction of the home, while data after it was
43:23
Speaker 1: turned back on suggested he was heading away from there.
43:27
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, bro, really? Just leave your phone
43:30
Speaker 1: at your apartment, leave it on, get yourself a burner,
43:34
Speaker 1: and be done with it. Using the data and surveillance
43:37
Speaker 1: footage of the vehicle that police identified as a white
43:40
Speaker 1: Hyundai Elantra, investigators sketched out a possible route that Koberger
43:45
Speaker 1: could have taken on the night of the killings. Other
43:48
Speaker 1: cellular data showed Koberger had been in the neighborhood at
43:52
Speaker 1: least a dozen times prior to the murders, always late
43:55
Speaker 1: in the evening or early in the morning, the affidavit said.
44:00
Speaker 1: And I'm sure he was just over there to hang
44:02
Speaker 1: out and listen to his audio book and admire the
44:05
Speaker 1: facade on the side of the house. He liked the
44:07
Speaker 1: way people mow their lawns over there a little bit
44:10
Speaker 1: better than they do over in Pullman. Or maybe he
44:13
Speaker 1: was over there having some hot cocoa and trying to
44:16
Speaker 1: figure out how to end the beef between the Palestinians
44:19
Speaker 1: and the Israelis. Come on, man, we all know what
44:22
Speaker 1: old boy was doing over there. Here, experts tell Newsweek
44:27
Speaker 1: about how Kohlberger's cell phone data and other records could
44:30
Speaker 1: be used against him. Joseph Giacalone, adjunct professor at John
44:35
Speaker 1: Jay College of Criminal Justice. Cell phone records, place them
44:40
Speaker 1: at or near the scene, Giacalone said. That Koberger turned
44:45
Speaker 1: his device on and off can explain intent to go unnoticed,
44:48
Speaker 1: he said. In addition, if he left his phone on,
44:51
Speaker 1: he might have attached to the Wi-Fi. There is still
44:54
Speaker 1: so much we don't know about the cell phone. And
44:57
Speaker 1: that's a very fair statement. We have no idea what
45:00
Speaker 1: they swooped up. With those digital search warrants, you know
45:04
Speaker 1: that they got a ton of evidence from Brian Koberger's accounts,
45:08
Speaker 1: from his cloud account, any accounts that were attached to
45:10
Speaker 1: his phone. Forget it. That's how they usually nail people
45:14
Speaker 1: these days. You can't do anything without your phone recording it.
45:19
Speaker 1: Gia Colon said he would be interested in whether investigators
45:22
Speaker 1: have video surveillance that shows Koberger returning to his apartment
45:26
Speaker 1: on the night of the murders. I have yet to
45:28
Speaker 1: hear if any exists, he said. He said other records
45:31
Speaker 1: from Koberger's phone could also be key, such as map programs,
45:36
Speaker 1: internet searches, and other apps. Remember, a lot of these apps,
45:40
Speaker 1: you have to grant them permission to connect to your phone,
45:43
Speaker 1: to get your location, all kinds of invasive shit. So
45:47
Speaker 1: they leave a digital pattern of all of that, and
45:50
Speaker 1: when you have people who are forensically gifted when it
45:53
Speaker 1: comes to computers, the sky is the limit. It's amazing
45:57
Speaker 1: the things they can recover from off of a computer,
46:00
Speaker 1: or a cell phone, or any digital record, really. Cell
46:04
Speaker 1: phone records, internet records, and video surveillance not only play
46:08
Speaker 1: a role in this case, but just about every criminal
46:11
Speaker 1: investigation moving forward, he said. And that's for sure. That's
46:15
Speaker 1: the age we're in. If you're out here thinking you're
46:18
Speaker 1: going to commit crimes and get away with it, chances
46:20
Speaker 1: are you're not going to get away with it, unless
46:22
Speaker 1: it's in the inner city. Then, of course, that's a
46:25
Speaker 1: whole different ballgame. But if you're out here thinking you're
46:27
Speaker 1: going to get away with being a serial killer, if
46:30
Speaker 1: the police focus on you and they have the resources
46:33
Speaker 1: that we saw in Idaho, the chances are slim to
46:36
Speaker 1: none that you're going to get away with it. Duncan Levin,
46:40
Speaker 1: managing partner of Levin and Associates. The cell phone records
46:44
Speaker 1: will be used to show particularly that Koberger is alleged
46:48
Speaker 1: to have turned off his phone for a few hours
46:50
Speaker 1: around the time of the commission of the offense and
46:54
Speaker 1: that it pinged near the site of the murders. directly thereafter,
46:57
Speaker 1: Levin said. It also allegedly shows that he came to
47:00
Speaker 1: the area of the murder scene in the months preceding.
47:04
Speaker 1: And after, remember, 9 a.m. the next morning? What are
47:07
Speaker 1: you doing showing up there, bro? Levin said Koberger's defense
47:12
Speaker 1: attorney will argue that the cell towers are accurate to
47:15
Speaker 1: about 20 miles, which is the distance roughly between his
47:18
Speaker 1: apartment and the scene of the crime. In other words,
47:22
Speaker 1: he will argue that there is a margin of error
47:24
Speaker 1: in the records that does not prove what the state
47:27
Speaker 1: is alleging, and they're not wrong if they argue that.
47:30
Speaker 1: I don't want to be the bearer of bad news
47:32
Speaker 1: or anything, but if all they have is the pings,
47:34
Speaker 1: it's going to be a bad, bad time for the prosecution.
47:38
Speaker 1: They better have this other stuff, Wi-Fi, GPS, that sort
47:42
Speaker 1: of stuff, because that's ironclad. There's no arguing with that.
47:47
Speaker 1: If that data says you were there, my friend, you
47:49
Speaker 1: were there. Levin added, it's really true that our phones
47:54
Speaker 1: know everything about us. Cell phone technology is being used
47:57
Speaker 1: around the country in criminal cases and act like beacons
48:01
Speaker 1: to show where people were and when. And I know
48:05
Speaker 1: for a fact, a lot of organized criminals, they're doing
48:08
Speaker 1: away with cell phones. They're not using them. I even
48:11
Speaker 1: know that there are some organizations going back. They're using
48:14
Speaker 1: things like pagers. So as the technology catches up, you
48:18
Speaker 1: have to remember that the criminals, they're savvy. They're going
48:21
Speaker 1: to change it up, too, and they're going to start
48:23
Speaker 1: using different technology to evade the police and evade the
48:27
Speaker 1: technology that the police are using. It's the age-old cat-and-mouse game,
48:31
Speaker 1: isn't it? You're the cop. I'm the robber. It's my
48:35
Speaker 1: job to rob. It's your job to stop me. Michael McAuliffe,
48:40
Speaker 1: former federal prosecutor and elected state attorney. The location and
48:45
Speaker 1: the movements of Koberger before, during, and after the killings
48:48
Speaker 1: will play a major role in prosecuting him. McAuliffe said.
48:52
Speaker 1: Cell phone location and tracking evidence will be the basis
48:56
Speaker 1: for that proof. McAuliffe explained that law enforcement uses triangulation
49:01
Speaker 1: from signals between individual cell phones and towers to determine
49:06
Speaker 1: movement and location, and newer phones can be located with
49:10
Speaker 1: greater accuracy with GPS technology. Cell phone location and tracking
49:15
Speaker 1: evidence can be extremely valuable in building cases, he said.
49:19
Speaker 1: The caveat is that a phone needs to be tied
49:22
Speaker 1: to a specific person. However, given our cultural penchant to
49:26
Speaker 1: taking one's phone everywhere, it is not difficult to link
49:29
Speaker 1: a cell phone and the person. Come on, who leaves
49:32
Speaker 1: the house without their cell phone? Unless you forgot it
49:35
Speaker 1: or you're up to no good or you're my mom.
49:38
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone's leaving their house without a cell
49:40
Speaker 1: phone these days. Certainly nobody who's 28 years old. Joseph
49:46
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, professor of applied forensics at Jacksonville State University
49:51
Speaker 1: in Alabama. Kohlberger's cell phone records will be used alongside
49:55
Speaker 1: his social media usage in order to demonstrate his movements
49:59
Speaker 1: in the months, weeks, days, hours, minutes leading up to
50:02
Speaker 1: the crime, Morgan said. It might be used to demonstrate...
50:06
Speaker 1: that he made contact with the victims prior to the murders,
50:09
Speaker 1: as well as his movements around the time of the
50:12
Speaker 1: killings and the day after. Morgan said those records could
50:16
Speaker 1: also be used to validate or invalidate any possible alibis
50:21
Speaker 1: that may be put forth by Koberger's defense attorney. So
50:24
Speaker 1: I've had people out here say before, oh, well, what
50:27
Speaker 1: if he didn't have his cell phone? What if somebody
50:29
Speaker 1: stole it? What if the dog ate his homework? I mean,
50:32
Speaker 1: for real? You're going to have to prove that. So
50:35
Speaker 1: it sounds fine when you're having an argument with somebody
50:38
Speaker 1: on the internet about if Brian Koberger is guilty or not.
50:41
Speaker 1: But in a courtroom, in front of a jury, it's
50:44
Speaker 1: a whole different game. And if you don't have the
50:47
Speaker 1: evidence to back up what you're saying, why would the
50:49
Speaker 1: jurors believe any of your nonsense? Did you report your
50:53
Speaker 1: phone stolen? No. Did you turn it off? No. How
50:56
Speaker 1: did you get it back? Uh... See where we're going here?
51:01
Speaker 1: And trust me when I tell you, I'm certainly not
51:03
Speaker 1: some kind of seasoned interrogator. I'm lucky I can pair
51:07
Speaker 1: my socks correctly in the morning, folks. Nima Rahmani, president
51:12
Speaker 1: and co-founder of West Coast Trial Lawyers. The cell site
51:17
Speaker 1: evidence would be better if Koberger's phone didn't turn off
51:20
Speaker 1: or go on airplane mode for several hours when the
51:23
Speaker 1: murders happened, Rahmani said. Prosecutors will argue that the path
51:28
Speaker 1: of travel to and from Idaho is enough, and the
51:30
Speaker 1: phone pinging from the house before and after the murders
51:34
Speaker 1: is evidence he was stalking the victims. Rachmani said, I
51:37
Speaker 1: think it's going to be part of that evidence, but
51:39
Speaker 1: I also think they're going to point to things like
51:42
Speaker 1: the Mad Greek, things like him being on campus at
51:45
Speaker 1: the student union, him following them on Instagram, him sending
51:48
Speaker 1: them messages on Instagram. All of that is going to
51:52
Speaker 1: tie together and then it's going to be a nice
51:54
Speaker 1: little bow that they're going to drop for the jury.
51:57
Speaker 1: But the defense will argue that the timestamps of the
52:00
Speaker 1: cell site pings are inconsistent with the videos of the vehicle.
52:04
Speaker 1: Rachmani said evidence that Koberger sent messages to one of
52:08
Speaker 1: the victims on social media could be used against him.
52:11
Speaker 1: And that's why it's important that that happened and why
52:14
Speaker 1: it's a crucial bit of evidence. NYU saw the judge,
52:16
Speaker 1: by the way, drop a gag order directly after this
52:19
Speaker 1: information became available. Well, you think that just happened on
52:23
Speaker 1: its own? The judge woke up and organically said, let's
52:26
Speaker 1: make my life more difficult by putting a gag order
52:30
Speaker 1: on damn near everybody. I highly doubt that Judge Marshall
52:33
Speaker 1: woke up and wanted to do that, but I bet
52:35
Speaker 1: you her hand was called. And a lot of it
52:38
Speaker 1: had to do with the fact that it was revealed
52:41
Speaker 1: that these girls were contacted by Brian Koberger on Instagram.
52:46
Speaker 1: And when you follow the thread, that's exactly where it
52:48
Speaker 1: ends up, at least for me. Now, look, it might
52:51
Speaker 1: be something completely different, right? We might get information later
52:54
Speaker 1: on that none of that occurred, but I don't think
52:57
Speaker 1: we're going to hear that. I think we're going to
52:59
Speaker 1: hear that he did contact them on Instagram. He was
53:02
Speaker 1: following them on Instagram and he was somebody who was
53:05
Speaker 1: on that campus quite often. Oh, and the mad Greek,
53:09
Speaker 1: pretty sure he ate there too. The Instagram direct messages
53:13
Speaker 1: are also good, he said. That's the only direct connection
53:16
Speaker 1: so far between Koberger and one of the victims. And
53:19
Speaker 1: evidence of motive to commit the murders. 100%. And remember,
53:24
Speaker 1: you don't need motive per se. The murders were committed.
53:28
Speaker 1: And if you have enough evidence that the person who
53:31
Speaker 1: committed the murders is the person in the courtroom, well,
53:34
Speaker 1: they're going to be found guilty. Motive or not. Now,
53:37
Speaker 1: of course, motive is a very key component. of figuring
53:41
Speaker 1: out what happened. Why would somebody be driven to murder?
53:43
Speaker 1: And that's what a defense attorney will say. You can't
53:46
Speaker 1: even give me motive. Why would my client kill? Well,
53:48
Speaker 1: maybe your client's just a sick bastard. Ever think of that? Now, obviously,
53:52
Speaker 1: the prosecution won't say anything like that, but that's what
53:55
Speaker 1: we'll all be thinking. So, it's going to be interesting
53:58
Speaker 1: to see which way Koberger goes and what sort of
54:01
Speaker 1: strategy they unfurl. But either way, you know your boy,
54:05
Speaker 1: his beard, and his big mouth will be here for
54:08
Speaker 1: the duration. All right, everybody, that's going to do it
54:12
Speaker 1: for this one. All of the information that goes along
54:15
Speaker 1: with this episode can be found in the description box.