Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BLOOD-SOAKED BRA, SHIRT, ZIP TIES In Trial of 'Other Woman' in Jennifer Dulos Murder

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BLOOD-SOAKED BRA, SHIRT, ZIP TIES In Trial of 'Other Woman' in Jennifer Dulos Murder · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greasee, I took a shower with
0:15
Speaker 1: Photus Dulos. Really, I, personally, Nancy Grace did not take
0:22
Speaker 1: a shower with Fotus Dulos. I don't want to get
0:25
Speaker 1: near him with a ten foot pole. But you know,
0:28
Speaker 1: a lot of people actually think he's attractive, was attractive.
0:33
Speaker 1: I never thought that. I think he looks like the devil.
0:36
Speaker 1: I guess that's because I know, without a doubt he
0:40
Speaker 1: murdered his wife, the mother of his five children. But
0:43
Speaker 1: let me get back to taking a shower with Potus Dulos. Now,
0:49
Speaker 1: after Jennifer Dulo's the missing mom of five, let me
0:54
Speaker 1: break that down, the dead murdered mom of five. After
0:58
Speaker 1: she's murdered, Potus Dulo says, lover his mistress, and he
1:07
Speaker 1: that's Michelle Traconis and he get together and they write
1:11
Speaker 1: an alibi script, in other words, detailing every move they made,
1:17
Speaker 1: according to them, And you can take that with a
1:19
Speaker 1: box assault every move they made the day Jennifer went
1:25
Speaker 1: missing translation was murdered, every move they made, filling up
1:31
Speaker 1: their whole daytimer. And Michelle Treconis, who was sleeping with
1:37
Speaker 1: a man she knows to be married, with five children.
1:41
Speaker 1: Has to add in the raunchy detail I took a
1:44
Speaker 1: shower with Photus. Really, do I need to know that?
1:48
Speaker 1: Do I have to imagine the two of them taking
1:51
Speaker 1: a shower just minutes before Jennifer Dulos is brutally murdered.
2:00
Speaker 1: A couple of hours before she comes home from the
2:04
Speaker 1: drop off, leaving her children at school. A vast quantity
2:10
Speaker 1: of her blood is found in the garage, and she's
2:13
Speaker 1: never seen again. In the last hours, as we go
2:18
Speaker 1: to air Gurrors have just been shown photos of where
2:25
Speaker 1: blood Jennifer's blood is in Photus Dulo's trunk of his Chevy. Okay,
2:32
Speaker 1: but right now Michelle traconis the mistress is on trial.
2:38
Speaker 1: I mean, it's he grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
2:40
Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Crime Stories and
2:42
Speaker 1: on Sirius xem one eleven. Wow. Okay, let's just start
2:49
Speaker 1: with Jennifer Dulo's the murdered mom of five. We've never
2:53
Speaker 1: found your body. Was she dismembered? Was she burned? Where
2:59
Speaker 1: her remains earned somewhere? Was she buried? Was she weighted
3:05
Speaker 1: down in water somewhere somebody of water like I believe
3:09
Speaker 1: Stacy Peterson was where is Jennifer's body? Her five children
3:16
Speaker 1: are being raised without their mother nobody. Well, they go
3:21
Speaker 1: through life wondering, Hey, was my dad telling the truth?
3:24
Speaker 1: Did my mom just leave run off with some boyfriend
3:26
Speaker 1: she's living I don't know Spain or Italy right now?
3:29
Speaker 1: Did my mom abandon me? That's what they're going to
3:32
Speaker 1: be wondering the rest of their lives. But back to
3:36
Speaker 1: Michelle Treconis, the mistress showering with the killer. I want
3:44
Speaker 1: to talk about Jennifer Doulos's bra and you'll see why.
3:51
Speaker 2: Take a listen, so I don't know you hold up
4:00
Speaker 2: the garbage of Albany and Green on May thirtieth, twenty nineteen.
4:04
Speaker 3: It is now with respect to first of all, what
4:11
Speaker 3: is it?
4:12
Speaker 4: That's bra?
4:14
Speaker 3: The back of the BRA's class? Was it like that
4:18
Speaker 3: in the condition when you found it?
4:20
Speaker 5: That's exactly how we found And with respect.
4:24
Speaker 3: To the front.
4:28
Speaker 6: Of the bra?
4:29
Speaker 3: Is there a cock going down the middle of it?
4:31
Speaker 5: There is?
4:32
Speaker 1: Okay, I want to point out what really jumps out
4:36
Speaker 1: of me. First of all, this is a bra. This
4:41
Speaker 1: is Jennifer Dulos's bra. It's soaked in blood. You can't
4:46
Speaker 1: tell what color it ever? Really was it looks like
4:50
Speaker 1: it's a deep burgundy brown now because it's completely soaked in,
4:56
Speaker 1: but like you dipped it in blood and pulled it
4:58
Speaker 1: back up. Interesting probative, which means it proves something. The
5:04
Speaker 1: bra Jennifer's bra was still clasped in the back and
5:09
Speaker 1: it was cut in the front. Why why joining me
5:16
Speaker 1: an all star panel to make sense of what we
5:18
Speaker 1: know right now? But first I'm want to go to
5:20
Speaker 1: Taylor Heart's joining us criminal justice investigative reporter for the
5:24
Speaker 1: Hartford current co host of an award winning true crime
5:29
Speaker 1: podcast looking for the Tote Family. That was an incredible
5:34
Speaker 1: case that we covered and investigated here, Taylor and your
5:37
Speaker 1: podcast is amazing. Taylor has been covering this story from
5:41
Speaker 1: the very beginning, and again, let me correct myself, It's
5:43
Speaker 1: not a story. These are real people. Jennifer a real
5:47
Speaker 1: mother like many of us, whose whole life is devoted
5:52
Speaker 1: to their children. Now she's gone, nothing left of her
5:55
Speaker 1: but a blood soaked bra and a garage full of blood.
6:00
Speaker 1: We tell our hearts. We were just hearing Sergeant Kevin
6:03
Speaker 1: Dugan with the Connecticut State Police describing finding the bra.
6:08
Speaker 1: Where was Jennifer Doulos's.
6:10
Speaker 7: Bra found Jennifer's bra and a shirt that she was
6:14
Speaker 7: allegedly wearing that day that she was attacked and investigators
6:18
Speaker 7: alleged killed in her garage were found in a trash
6:21
Speaker 7: bin on Albany Avenue in Hartford, and investigators in this
6:25
Speaker 7: case and prosecutors now in the trial have really zeroed
6:28
Speaker 7: in on that part of Hartford. After Jennifer went missing,
6:33
Speaker 7: investigators were led to that street by tracking location data
6:36
Speaker 7: from photos Doulos's phone that showed that he was on
6:40
Speaker 7: Albany Avenue. They reviewed the many surveillance cameras that are
6:45
Speaker 7: in that area and saw footage of Photos's black Ford
6:49
Speaker 7: Raptor driving down Albany Avenue and making a couple stops,
6:53
Speaker 7: and in that video you see a man in a
6:55
Speaker 7: white T shirt and a black baseball cap getting out
6:59
Speaker 7: and playing some things into different trash cans and dropping
7:02
Speaker 7: something into a storm drain, and investigators went through that trash.
7:06
Speaker 7: We saw that in the trial this week, and the
7:09
Speaker 7: jury saw that evidence, not only photos of all that
7:12
Speaker 7: trash laid out at State Police headquarters in Hartford, but
7:16
Speaker 7: actually saw those pieces of evidence taken out of brown
7:19
Speaker 7: evidence bags as prosecutors pulled that red evidence tape off
7:23
Speaker 7: and held up these blood soaked Burt broads gloves with
7:28
Speaker 7: a blood like stain on them, zip ties that had
7:31
Speaker 7: blood like stains on them and were cut. And that's
7:34
Speaker 7: just some of the evidence that was found in those trashmen.
7:37
Speaker 1: You are hearing Tailor Hearts joining us criminal justice investigative
7:41
Speaker 1: reporter with the Hartford Current. I want to go to
7:45
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer joining us at the courthouse right now,
7:48
Speaker 1: Mark Sherman, managing partner, Mark Sherman law Mark, thank you
7:52
Speaker 1: for being with us. A lot of people would suspect
7:55
Speaker 1: that that's all for show when the prosecutor brings in
8:00
Speaker 1: paper bags and there's a reason that their paper which
8:03
Speaker 1: doctor Eric Easton is going to explain for us. But
8:05
Speaker 1: the prosecutor brings on all of these bags of evidence
8:10
Speaker 1: and it is dramatic, but it has to be that
8:14
Speaker 1: way because those bags are unsealed, typically by the witness
8:21
Speaker 1: who is law enforcement, or it could even be a
8:24
Speaker 1: transport officer, which is simply the officer that takes the
8:29
Speaker 1: evidence from the scene. After it's appropriately bagged and secured,
8:33
Speaker 1: they transport it to the crime lab, or they pick
8:36
Speaker 1: it up at the crime lab and transport it back
8:38
Speaker 1: to the courtroom. It cannot and should not be opened
8:43
Speaker 1: until that moment to preserve the chain of custody. So
8:49
Speaker 1: the prosecutor will take the bag. This is the best
8:53
Speaker 1: way to do it. Instead of you opening it yourself,
8:56
Speaker 1: You take the bag and you give it to the witness,
8:58
Speaker 1: so the witness law enforcement can say, yes, this is
9:02
Speaker 1: a bag. It's evidence number one, two, three, four. It
9:06
Speaker 1: was obtained from a crime scene on this date and
9:09
Speaker 1: it was logged into evidence by tailor Hearts and the
9:14
Speaker 1: crime lab person that analyzed it was Mark Sherman. And
9:19
Speaker 1: now I'm opening it for the first time. Why is
9:23
Speaker 1: chain of custody so important? Mark Sherman? Why is the
9:28
Speaker 1: projecutor opening up paper bags in front of the jury.
9:31
Speaker 8: It's to preserve the integrity of the evidence. But it's
9:35
Speaker 8: not the first time that the Saints probably saw this evidence,
9:37
Speaker 8: Nancy before the trial, in the year to two years
9:41
Speaker 8: in this case, three years before the trial. We're given
9:44
Speaker 8: the right to bring our own experts in open up
9:47
Speaker 8: these bags with our own experts in the presence of
9:51
Speaker 8: the police officers and the crime labs, and tested ourselves,
9:54
Speaker 8: especially when there's DNA involved, and sometimes if not enough
9:57
Speaker 8: DNA to test multiple time, So good prosecutors will give
10:02
Speaker 8: us the opportunity to say, hey, we may only be
10:05
Speaker 8: able to do one test. Do your people want to
10:07
Speaker 8: be involved? So we do get a right to all
10:10
Speaker 8: this stuff. It's not the first time the defense has
10:12
Speaker 8: seen this, but they have to keep it in these
10:15
Speaker 8: sealed bags. They have to keep this chain of custody
10:18
Speaker 8: tight or else the defense will be able to attack
10:20
Speaker 8: them for saying it could have been contaminated by other things,
10:22
Speaker 8: that all.
10:23
Speaker 7: That it happened.
10:23
Speaker 8: Sometimes I doubt it happened in this case because it's
10:26
Speaker 8: such a high profile case. That being really careful. But
10:29
Speaker 8: that's your reason why, because it will open the door
10:31
Speaker 8: for the defense to attack the accuracy of the evidence,
10:35
Speaker 8: especially when you have DNA and blood involved.
10:37
Speaker 1: Let's just say it, let's just get it out there.
10:39
Speaker 1: Ij Simpson. Simpson's defense, headed by my former co anchor
10:46
Speaker 1: Johnny Cochrane god Rest his soul, I attacked the blood
10:50
Speaker 1: evidence on mini levels, including contamination, including intentional planting of evidence.
10:59
Speaker 1: So not just that a lot of people walked through
11:01
Speaker 1: the crime scene and got their DNA on it, which
11:03
Speaker 1: did not happen, but also that police planted the evidence,
11:07
Speaker 1: and the jury actually bought it. You want to tell
11:10
Speaker 1: me that a group of fifteen to twenty investigators were
11:14
Speaker 1: part of a big conspiracy and to this day have
11:17
Speaker 1: not signed a multimillion dollar book deal. Yeah, that didn't happen.
11:21
Speaker 1: But that said, that specter looms over every piece of
11:26
Speaker 1: physical evidence the state puts forth, so they've got to
11:29
Speaker 1: be really careful. Taylor Heartz is describing for us the
11:32
Speaker 1: state opening up these bags in the courtroom and the
11:36
Speaker 1: air bags of bloody clothes, so bloody you can't even
11:40
Speaker 1: tell what color the bra used to be. But there's more.
11:44
Speaker 1: Sergeant Kevin Dugan on the stand.
11:48
Speaker 2: Listen, is that a photograph of the shirt that you
11:51
Speaker 2: took out of the.
11:52
Speaker 9: Garbage on May thirtieth, twenty nineteen.
11:56
Speaker 3: It is is at the back.
11:58
Speaker 5: Of the front. Leave us the back.
12:05
Speaker 3: If you wish to say, you can continue.
12:07
Speaker 5: The front was cut up.
12:08
Speaker 1: Interesting to doctor Eric Eson joining US Board Certified Forensic
12:14
Speaker 1: Pathologists consulted at Eric Underscore A Underscore Eson, Doctor Eason,
12:20
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Just so you know everybody,
12:24
Speaker 1: this guy didn't just fall off the tournament truck. He
12:27
Speaker 1: has performed around ten thousand death investigations. He has performed
12:35
Speaker 1: thousands of autopsies, Doctor Eson. When I think of someone's
12:41
Speaker 1: clothes being cut off of them, that's kind of thing
12:45
Speaker 1: that I would encounter as a prosecutor when EMTs were
12:49
Speaker 1: trying to save somebody's life and they literally rip the
12:53
Speaker 1: clothes off, or they slice them up the middle, and
12:56
Speaker 1: sometimes they don't even take them totally off the body.
12:58
Speaker 1: They want to get at your hat or the cut
13:01
Speaker 1: or the GSW gunshot would for expediency, But in this case,
13:07
Speaker 1: we've never found Jennifer Dulos's body. Right now, her husband's lover,
13:12
Speaker 1: the shelter coonas is on the stand because she's on
13:15
Speaker 1: video getting out of his vehicle as he's going to
13:20
Speaker 1: what thirty stops Taylor Heart's how many trash cans or
13:24
Speaker 1: receptacles did he use disposing of all of Jennifer's bloody clothing,
13:28
Speaker 1: her braw rags, you name it. How many?
13:31
Speaker 7: So that's something that is still really yet to be
13:34
Speaker 7: nailed down in this trial. I think it's been a
13:36
Speaker 7: very common misconception throughout the coverage of this case that
13:39
Speaker 7: Foot has made about thirty stops. That was originally something
13:43
Speaker 7: that was reported back in twenty nineteen when this case
13:47
Speaker 7: was first being looked at. But it looks like it's
13:49
Speaker 7: only a handful of stops. Where that thirty something number
13:53
Speaker 7: came from was that investigators released a lot of surveillance footage.
13:58
Speaker 7: They released I think at the beginning, thirty or so
14:01
Speaker 7: photos and videos of those stops, but there were actually
14:05
Speaker 7: only a couple stops along Albany Avenue.
14:07
Speaker 1: When you're saying a handful or a couple, what do
14:10
Speaker 1: you mean by that? One, two, five, ten, That.
14:13
Speaker 7: Number is yet to be known. We're hoping that's something
14:16
Speaker 7: that is nailed down today at trial or that we
14:18
Speaker 7: can ask the defense attorneys. But I think it's somewhere
14:21
Speaker 7: about three.
14:22
Speaker 6: You know.
14:22
Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold joining us from now psychiatrist in the
14:25
Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction at angela Arnold MD dot com, Doctor Angie.
14:30
Speaker 1: Most women are happy if their husband will take the
14:34
Speaker 1: trash out once a week to one place, the end
14:37
Speaker 1: of the driveway or the trash chute. But suddenly, when
14:41
Speaker 1: Jennifer Doulos goes missing air quote air quote, he's an
14:48
Speaker 1: eat nick and he goes to multiple trash cans and
14:52
Speaker 1: lo and behold in those receptacles are her bloody clothes. Wow,
14:57
Speaker 1: how do Michelle Chaconas miss that?
14:59
Speaker 6: You know, I can't see. I have a feeling his
15:02
Speaker 6: mind might have gotten a little messed up while he
15:05
Speaker 6: was having sex with this girl in the shower, don't you.
15:07
Speaker 1: Why did you have to bring them up in the shower.
15:11
Speaker 1: I've tried to get that out of my head. Now
15:13
Speaker 1: you've put it back in there. But I mean, the
15:15
Speaker 1: man is stopping at multiple receptacles to throw away bloody items.
15:21
Speaker 6: Doesn't that alone make him look so guilty?
15:23
Speaker 1: He is guilty? Right where would where else would he
15:26
Speaker 1: get the bloody items? And she's right there with him? Guys,
15:30
Speaker 1: I want to hear more of this witness on the stand.
15:32
Speaker 1: As Sergeant Kevin Dugan, Connecticut State Police, listen.
15:35
Speaker 9: Can you please point to wear The shirt is cropped,
15:40
Speaker 9: it's almost right down in the center of the Sure,
15:44
Speaker 9: are there any buttons or zippers on the shirt?
15:48
Speaker 1: So?
15:50
Speaker 3: And what is the brand?
15:53
Speaker 5: It's a then your Advice shirt?
15:57
Speaker 3: And over here there's some marketing.
16:00
Speaker 5: What is that there's a defect in the in the shirt.
16:05
Speaker 3: About the whole Yeah? And did just go to the lab?
16:09
Speaker 10: It did?
16:11
Speaker 9: Now there are letters here at EVSTG.
16:14
Speaker 5: Do you know what that stands were, Yes, it's a
16:16
Speaker 5: Vinyard Vince slogan for every day should feel as good.
16:19
Speaker 1: Doctor Ariy Aeson joining us, Doctor Esen, Why would her
16:23
Speaker 1: bra and her shirt be ripped up the front? Obviously
16:28
Speaker 1: she didn't do that.
16:29
Speaker 4: It sounds like whoever took her life was trying to
16:32
Speaker 4: get rid of the evidence, and so after the death occurred,
16:36
Speaker 4: they would have removed the shirt and the bra with
16:38
Speaker 4: the scissors or a knife and then would have discarded
16:42
Speaker 4: them eventually.
16:43
Speaker 1: But why, I'm trying to figure that part out. Lisa
16:46
Speaker 1: Daddio joining me. Former police lieutenant, New Haven Police Department,
16:51
Speaker 1: Anny Lee, Lead Detective, senior lecturer, director of the Center
16:55
Speaker 1: for Advanced Policing, and graduate program coordinator at University New Haven. Lisa,
17:02
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Why did he slice
17:05
Speaker 1: her bra and her shirt up the front.
17:06
Speaker 11: So you know, that is something I also struggle with.
17:10
Speaker 11: It doesn't make sense to me. If you're just gonna
17:12
Speaker 11: dump her body somewhere, why not leave her clothed, slicing
17:17
Speaker 11: it up the front obviously her shirt, her bra? Why
17:22
Speaker 11: and then you take it off of her and dispose
17:24
Speaker 11: of it. But yet you still have the biggest piece
17:26
Speaker 11: of evidence to her body, So that part of it,
17:31
Speaker 11: I just I can't wrap my head around. It doesn't
17:33
Speaker 11: make any sense to me. But then again, a lot
17:35
Speaker 11: of this case makes absolutely no sense to me.
17:37
Speaker 1: Well, maybe you know we've all seen cases where the
17:42
Speaker 1: dead victim is stripped. Sometimes their body has been cleaned
17:47
Speaker 1: like Nicole levels. Sometimes we see victims hands cut off,
17:53
Speaker 1: so no fingerprint identification right, their head cut also, no
17:57
Speaker 1: visual identification, clothing removed. I'm just trying to figure out
18:03
Speaker 1: why her broad and short would have been cut off
18:06
Speaker 1: her body right rightense Also with us Jeff Gentry joining
18:11
Speaker 1: US forensic certified Bloodstained pattern Analyst and author of a
18:16
Speaker 1: visual guide to Bloodstained pattern Analysis blood Stained Pattern Analysis
18:21
Speaker 1: for Death and crime. Seeing the investigators, Wow, Jeff Gentry,
18:25
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. What do you make
18:27
Speaker 1: of her clothes being cut off of her dead body?
18:30
Speaker 12: He see every aspect of this crime was planned out,
18:34
Speaker 12: from their detailed notes to the entire course of events
18:37
Speaker 12: the rest of the day. So taking the time to
18:40
Speaker 12: zip tie somebody to assault them, she was obviously unconscious
18:45
Speaker 12: or looking up at him when he's cutting these bloody
18:48
Speaker 12: clothes off of her. But he is planning to conceal evidence,
18:52
Speaker 12: and he thought he was concealing evidence by throwing in
18:54
Speaker 12: the trash, but he actually created more evidence to be analyzed.
18:57
Speaker 12: But his plan was to dispose of the body somehow
19:00
Speaker 12: and hoping that this additional evidence on the body would
19:03
Speaker 12: not be found and be able to link it.
19:05
Speaker 7: Back to her.
19:06
Speaker 12: So I agree with you that she's probably weighted down somewhere.
19:08
Speaker 12: A lot of the cases that I've seen where the
19:10
Speaker 12: person is stripped down and additional evidence removed or parts
19:14
Speaker 12: of the body cut off, they're usually weighted down and
19:17
Speaker 12: then put in a waterway with the hopes that that
19:19
Speaker 12: body will decompose. But hopefully one of these days they
19:22
Speaker 12: will find her, and water does, to an extent preserve
19:26
Speaker 12: the body, so hopefully they can find more clues to
19:30
Speaker 12: give more explanation to the family.
19:32
Speaker 1: You mentioned zip ties. Take listen to Sergent Kevin Dogan
19:36
Speaker 1: picture nineteen.
19:36
Speaker 5: So what is that so picture of zip ties?
19:40
Speaker 3: Did you find those out of the garbage on all
19:42
Speaker 3: the avenue that day?
19:44
Speaker 5: I didn't?
19:45
Speaker 3: And you did you package them and bring them back
19:47
Speaker 3: to troop each?
19:48
Speaker 5: I did?
19:49
Speaker 9: And with respect to these items, did you then subsequently separate.
19:54
Speaker 3: Them from the other items, Yes, similar to you did
19:57
Speaker 3: every item that was continued in that garbage can and
20:00
Speaker 3: did you photograph it?
20:01
Speaker 1: Yes?
20:02
Speaker 3: And did you then use it as an evidentiary number?
20:05
Speaker 1: Yes?
20:06
Speaker 3: What evidentary number? Did you seize it as?
20:08
Speaker 1: Five H two H?
20:10
Speaker 3: And why did you see it?
20:12
Speaker 7: So?
20:12
Speaker 5: On the zip ties, there's a bloodlike substance on several
20:15
Speaker 5: areas of the zip ties and I found that.
20:17
Speaker 13: Relevant time stories with Nancy Grace.
20:34
Speaker 1: Let me understand Taylor hearts. In addition to the bloody
20:37
Speaker 1: clothes being thrown away by photos of Delis, you see
20:40
Speaker 1: him on camera doing it cameras from all around town.
20:45
Speaker 1: There are zip ties with blood on the zip ties.
20:48
Speaker 7: Yes, there were I believe four zip ties, two that
20:51
Speaker 7: had blood stains on them and two that had been
20:55
Speaker 7: cut at some point similar to how the clothes were cut.
20:59
Speaker 7: And then the other thing that we saw in the
21:02
Speaker 7: trial to Seek that was pulled from those trash bins
21:05
Speaker 7: was two pontos that you would wear when it's raining
21:09
Speaker 7: outside that also were covered in a blood like stain.
21:13
Speaker 7: And going back to your question about why those clothes
21:16
Speaker 7: may have been cut, it seems like Dulas was really
21:18
Speaker 7: trying to get rid of any blood evidence. We know
21:21
Speaker 7: that his employees Toyota Tacoma. Then he was driving the
21:25
Speaker 7: morning of May twenty fourth, twenty nineteen, was brought to
21:28
Speaker 7: a car wash and detailed after Jennifer was reported missing.
21:32
Speaker 7: The blood in the garage had sneer and white stains,
21:35
Speaker 7: and according to the nanny who testified, at least ten
21:38
Speaker 7: rolls of paper towels were missing from the pantry of
21:41
Speaker 7: that house where the attack allegedly happened, and pieces of
21:44
Speaker 7: bloody paper towel were found on the garage floor. So
21:47
Speaker 7: we're seeing a lot of evidence that contained what is
21:50
Speaker 7: believed to be Jennifer's blood that was then tried to
21:54
Speaker 7: that foot has tried to cover up or get rid of.
21:57
Speaker 1: Is it true that Vivio allegedly shows Traconas discarding a
22:01
Speaker 1: package containing old license plates in a storm drain.
22:07
Speaker 7: So there is a surveillance video that shows what appears
22:10
Speaker 7: to be photos Dulos dropping something into a storm drain.
22:14
Speaker 7: Now while he's on Albany Avenue putting something into the
22:18
Speaker 7: storm drain and stuff into the trash bins. Michelle Tracronas
22:22
Speaker 7: was seen in the passenger seat of that Ford Raptor
22:26
Speaker 7: and She's told investigators that she was in the truck
22:29
Speaker 7: at that time, but that she didn't have any idea
22:32
Speaker 7: what was going on. There is one point in the
22:34
Speaker 7: video where you see Traconas leaning out of the vehicle
22:38
Speaker 7: and kind of almost touching the sidewalk, and her defense
22:42
Speaker 7: attorney told me last week and has has sudden court
22:45
Speaker 7: that she was trying to wipe a piece of gum,
22:48
Speaker 7: chewing gum off onto the sidewalk that she was trying
22:51
Speaker 7: to get rid of. But those license plates were found
22:55
Speaker 7: in the storm drain. City investigators went to that drain
22:58
Speaker 7: had everything suctioned up out of there, and they found
23:01
Speaker 7: a FedEx envelope that had two Connecticut plates in it,
23:04
Speaker 7: and at first glance, they seemed like normal license plates
23:07
Speaker 7: that haven't been tampered with, but an investigator noticed that
23:12
Speaker 7: in Connecticut it's typically a series of three numbers and
23:15
Speaker 7: then three letters on a plate, and on these particular
23:20
Speaker 7: plates that the numbers and letters didn't match that pattern.
23:25
Speaker 7: So on closer look they realized that there have been
23:27
Speaker 7: some type of adhesive or tape applied that actually changed
23:30
Speaker 7: some of the numbers and letters. On the original plate,
23:33
Speaker 7: a D was changed into a B. And jay was
23:37
Speaker 7: changed into another letter, And when investigators pulled that tape
23:42
Speaker 7: off and ran that original plate number, it was linked
23:45
Speaker 7: to a registration that had been canceled but had once
23:49
Speaker 7: belonged to Photos Doulos.
23:51
Speaker 1: So, in a Nutshelle Taylor, they threw away altered license
23:58
Speaker 1: plate tags.
23:59
Speaker 7: Correct, that's correct?
24:00
Speaker 1: Okay. Question, you're telling me that only a handful of
24:05
Speaker 1: trash cans were used? Does that is your number? Including
24:10
Speaker 1: the storm drain?
24:11
Speaker 7: I believe there were three trash beans and the storm drain.
24:14
Speaker 1: I mean, Mark Sherman. What's a jury supposed to believe
24:19
Speaker 1: who goes and throws things down a storm drain.
24:22
Speaker 8: Nancy, Jury's gonna believe that Photos Dulos committed this crime.
24:25
Speaker 8: It's been nine days of evidence and I haven't seen
24:28
Speaker 8: one shred of evidence to suggest that Michelle was involved
24:32
Speaker 8: in this murder.
24:33
Speaker 1: She's in the car watching him throw away the bloody clothes.
24:36
Speaker 1: She writes the alibi scripts detailing not only her shower
24:41
Speaker 1: with Dulos, excuse me, shower with Photos as she wrote it,
24:45
Speaker 1: but everything else, everything else that day, which of course
24:49
Speaker 1: is a lie.
24:49
Speaker 8: Nancy. That's still not murder. That might be a hindering hindering,
24:53
Speaker 8: which is assisting someone.
24:54
Speaker 4: Who committed a murder.
24:55
Speaker 8: But at most that would be and that's a ten
24:57
Speaker 8: year crime.
24:58
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, why wouldn't it be a code of because.
25:00
Speaker 8: It's not a conspiracy when you help someone after the fact, it's.
25:03
Speaker 1: Not she's with him. I'm looking at the bloody bra
25:07
Speaker 1: right now. She was with him, discarding all of that.
25:10
Speaker 1: And then she, according to the state, made up this
25:14
Speaker 1: script about everything they had done the day of the
25:17
Speaker 1: murder and following the murder. But we know that's not true.
25:21
Speaker 1: She doesn't have in that script. We went from trash
25:24
Speaker 1: can trash can to storm drawings throwing away bloody clothes.
25:27
Speaker 1: She left that out, which means the timeline is a lie.
25:30
Speaker 8: Fair enough, but I believe the lawyer wrote that script,
25:34
Speaker 8: not Michelle.
25:35
Speaker 1: Okay, let's find out, Taylor Harts. Did the lawyer write that.
25:39
Speaker 1: Did the lawyer write I took a shower with photos.
25:41
Speaker 7: What we've heard so far in videos that have been
25:45
Speaker 7: shown of Michelle's interviews with investigators, is that she and
25:48
Speaker 7: photos wrote those lefts.
25:50
Speaker 1: Okay, good try Sherman, can't blame me for trying. Let's
25:53
Speaker 1: listen to more of what the jury is hearing in
25:55
Speaker 1: the courtroom.
25:56
Speaker 14: And what is the same.
25:57
Speaker 5: It's the zip ties contained with packaging.
26:01
Speaker 9: And are these the zip ties that you seized out
26:03
Speaker 9: of the garbage that day on Albany.
26:04
Speaker 3: Avenue on May thirtieth, nineteen, they are?
26:08
Speaker 9: Are they the zip ties that you saw the blood
26:10
Speaker 9: like substance contained on them? And are they the zip
26:13
Speaker 9: ties that you that you see used for five or
26:16
Speaker 9: two each?
26:17
Speaker 3: Yes?
26:18
Speaker 1: Okay. Jeff Gentry joining me, a forensic certified blood stained
26:21
Speaker 1: pattern analyst. Jeff helped me out here. I'm trying to
26:26
Speaker 1: reconstruct in a sensical manner why her bra was ripped cut,
26:33
Speaker 1: why her shirt was sliced up in the front like
26:36
Speaker 1: the bra, and why the zip ties were sliced, and
26:41
Speaker 1: why they're all everything is covered in blood, including additional
26:46
Speaker 1: things like rags. So what's your best scenario based on
26:52
Speaker 1: the evidence that you know?
26:53
Speaker 12: Blood pattern is excellent for creating timeline of events and
26:57
Speaker 12: bloody cases, especially assaults. So you've got blood spatter in
27:01
Speaker 12: the house that is obviously going to be when she's attacked.
27:04
Speaker 12: You've got the zip ties, evidence that she has been
27:07
Speaker 12: subdued in some way, most likely after the attack. You've
27:10
Speaker 12: got evidence that her clothing was removed, and then she
27:12
Speaker 12: was transferred to the trunk of a vehicle or the
27:15
Speaker 12: back of a vehicle, so that it creates additional timeline,
27:18
Speaker 12: and then you have evidence of cleanup the final stage
27:21
Speaker 12: in that messy scene. So all of that really recreates
27:26
Speaker 12: a timeline of events that hopefully the jury will see
27:29
Speaker 12: right through. All of this not related to the blood.
27:33
Speaker 12: But what drives me crazy is that she's using this
27:36
Speaker 12: defense of ignorance. And what I wanted to tell you
27:38
Speaker 12: is do you remember another criminal that used that same
27:41
Speaker 12: defense of ignorance? And that was John Wayne Gacy when
27:45
Speaker 12: he said that there were no children that he had
27:47
Speaker 12: killed in the basement of his house.
27:51
Speaker 1: And what about this? Sydney noticed this. We're there to
27:56
Speaker 1: ponchos tailor hearts. Two ponchos.
27:59
Speaker 7: Yes there were, and that was, at least of my knowledge,
28:02
Speaker 7: the first time that we'd heard about those ponchos. But
28:04
Speaker 7: there were in fact too.
28:06
Speaker 1: Did they have blood on them as well?
28:07
Speaker 7: Yes they did.
28:08
Speaker 1: Okay, it's the picture getting any clearer. Has anybody seen
28:11
Speaker 1: dexter am? I the only one that got me through
28:14
Speaker 1: my pregnancy? Okay, I guess not one of my favorite
28:17
Speaker 1: is that gentry Or Sherman?
28:18
Speaker 12: Oh yeah, I love Dexter.
28:20
Speaker 1: Okay, ponchos, Sidney, thank you, time stories with Nancy Grace, ponchos,
28:42
Speaker 1: cleaning supplies, rags, paper towels. You're right, this was very
28:49
Speaker 1: well planned, right down to buying ponchos to protect their
28:54
Speaker 1: clothes from getting blood on them. The ponchos bloody and
28:58
Speaker 1: thrown away with everything else, Doctor Angela Arnold, to think
29:03
Speaker 1: that far ahead that you actually buy ponchos so you
29:07
Speaker 1: don't get the mother of your five children's blood on
29:12
Speaker 1: you. You're worried about that?
29:14
Speaker 6: Wow, Well he didn't want to.
29:17
Speaker 1: I mean he didn't, uh, doctor angel Arnold, I expect
29:20
Speaker 1: a little bit more from you than wow.
29:22
Speaker 6: Well confident, as often say NITTI, I'm sure that's how
29:26
Speaker 6: everyone else is feeling right now. Also right, I mean
29:29
Speaker 6: everything this guy did made him look guilty.
29:33
Speaker 1: Her there's two ponchos two one two. Yeah, you still
29:37
Speaker 1: want to argue Mark Sherman that she had nothing to
29:41
Speaker 1: do with it. Who were the other pancho covered in blood?
29:45
Speaker 8: Nanci? What the more the government makes photus to be
29:48
Speaker 8: a monster, the more the defense is gonna flip it
29:51
Speaker 8: and say, yes, Michelle was along for this ride.
29:54
Speaker 4: She didn't know what was.
29:55
Speaker 1: Going on, along for the ride. That's certainly putting perfume
29:59
Speaker 1: on a pig.
30:00
Speaker 8: Along for the ride, Nancy, She's on the phone the
30:02
Speaker 8: whole time, and they have they have the data to
30:05
Speaker 8: show that she was talking to her mother the whole
30:07
Speaker 8: time or a big chunk of that do.
30:09
Speaker 1: They tail her heart? Is he? Is that true? Or
30:12
Speaker 1: is he making something else up as he has already
30:16
Speaker 1: done once, n I was mistaken that it was a mistake. Okay,
30:20
Speaker 1: is he mistaken again?
30:22
Speaker 15: No?
30:23
Speaker 1: It is.
30:23
Speaker 7: It is true that there is there are phone records
30:26
Speaker 7: that backup that Michelle was messaging her mom and her
30:29
Speaker 7: daughter during that trip to Albany Avenue. But the jury
30:33
Speaker 7: will not hear about that, and that is something that
30:36
Speaker 7: is going to make a difference in this team.
30:38
Speaker 1: Messaging messaging, did you say messaging?
30:41
Speaker 6: Yes?
30:41
Speaker 7: I believe she was using WhatsApp to text with her
30:44
Speaker 7: mom and her daughter.
30:45
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, I was. I'm sitting here, I just
30:48
Speaker 1: read a message from my daughter Lucy. It took me
30:51
Speaker 1: about two seconds, is it?
30:53
Speaker 3: Hey?
30:53
Speaker 1: Mom? So Mark Sherman, high profile defense lawyer, of course,
31:00
Speaker 1: says she talked NonStop for what hours they were driving
31:05
Speaker 1: around disposing of bloody items. But you're telling me, Tillahart
31:09
Speaker 1: that she messaged on WhatsApp? Is that right?
31:12
Speaker 8: Yes?
31:13
Speaker 7: But the trip did not take hours.
31:15
Speaker 8: I will point that out.
31:16
Speaker 7: So they were going from their home in Farmington, Connecticut,
31:20
Speaker 7: head into a Starbucks in West Hartford. And you know
31:25
Speaker 7: that's what her defense attorney has said that Michelle just
31:27
Speaker 7: thought that she was along for the ride while they
31:30
Speaker 7: were going to Starbucks. They did end up at a Starbucks,
31:33
Speaker 7: and yesterday we saw in those alibi scripts that they
31:36
Speaker 7: allegedly got some prappaccinos there around seven pm.
31:39
Speaker 1: I don't care about their frappies. I knew you were
31:42
Speaker 1: going to do that tailor hearts. I knew you were
31:44
Speaker 1: going to tell she had an oat milk, skinny, light
31:48
Speaker 1: eyes frappie and he had the chite Nancy.
31:53
Speaker 8: Do you believe she was texting her her mother and
31:56
Speaker 8: daughter and at the same time with the other hand
31:59
Speaker 8: burning out.
32:00
Speaker 1: Yes, I do a.
32:01
Speaker 15: Little bit of a yes, I do, I do.
32:04
Speaker 1: Does anybody Okay, Lisa Daddio help me out tell her hearts.
32:08
Speaker 1: You do know this is kind of a dogfight it's
32:10
Speaker 1: not high ta at winsor Castle, So just jump in
32:13
Speaker 1: whenever you want, Lisa, Dadio, Brian Laundry, help me out, Sidney,
32:17
Speaker 1: use that noodle, Brian Laundry. He murders Gabby Patito, leaves
32:23
Speaker 1: her body out to be torn apart by animals and
32:26
Speaker 1: dispersed camping. Then he drives across the country back home
32:29
Speaker 1: to Mommy in her van, using her credit cards to
32:34
Speaker 1: take up and eat. The whole way home. Nobody knows
32:37
Speaker 1: she's dead but him, and the whole time he's texting calling, yeah,
32:43
Speaker 1: I believe it. Do you remember that, daddyo? It happens
32:47
Speaker 1: all the time, it always is.
32:49
Speaker 8: It's a way to throw people off.
32:50
Speaker 1: Let's reaf it.
32:52
Speaker 11: This whole thing was planned, as we've said multiple times,
32:55
Speaker 11: and done very well. But he got caught. And Michelle
33:00
Speaker 11: is far from innocent in this case.
33:02
Speaker 8: And so while we yet don't have.
33:05
Speaker 11: Any information that says, hey, we know her DNA is
33:09
Speaker 11: on you know, Jennifer's body or clothing or whatever, everything
33:14
Speaker 11: else lead you to believe that she knew more than
33:18
Speaker 11: just going along for a ride to grab frappuccinos at Starbucks.
33:23
Speaker 1: Come on, yeah, thank you for that. Infot tailor heart.
33:25
Speaker 1: You're really nailing down the facts for me. Sure she
33:28
Speaker 1: got a frappy and he got a chi. Hey, Taylor,
33:30
Speaker 1: I want you to jump in if any of us
33:33
Speaker 1: have any fact wrong, because facts matter. And when you
33:36
Speaker 1: mentioned blood on the zip ties, I'm curious, Doctor Ary
33:40
Speaker 1: Aeson or Jeff Gentry. You're the blood spatter expert, Doctor
33:45
Speaker 1: Airy Aeson. You've done thousands of autopsies. Is there a
33:48
Speaker 1: way to look at the blood on the zip ties
33:52
Speaker 1: and tell if Jennifer Doulos had been zip tied? Or
33:57
Speaker 1: was this a smear or was this just spatter that
34:01
Speaker 1: the zip ties were on the garage floor when she
34:03
Speaker 1: was murdered? Can we is there a way that we
34:07
Speaker 1: could tell she was actually zip tied? You know, let
34:10
Speaker 1: me first throw that to Jeff Gentry? What about it?
34:12
Speaker 1: Is there a way to examine the blood on the
34:16
Speaker 1: zip ties to determine was Jennifer Doulas actually zip tied?
34:20
Speaker 12: What I would do, Nancy, is I would look for
34:22
Speaker 12: evidence of blood spatter. So a lot of times in
34:24
Speaker 12: assaults there will be small blood spatter stains that you
34:27
Speaker 12: can identify. But in this case, all that I saw
34:31
Speaker 12: was blood transfers and that that's very common when people
34:35
Speaker 12: are have significant bleeding wounds, so they transfer blood to surfaces,
34:39
Speaker 12: or blood just soaks into the brawlers shirt and then
34:43
Speaker 12: eventually onto the zip ties, and then when you put
34:46
Speaker 12: it all into a trash bag, it really does mess
34:49
Speaker 12: up a lot of the blood evidence that you can
34:50
Speaker 12: interpret as impact spatter versus transfers. But I would look
34:55
Speaker 12: for impact spatter absolutely on those zip ties.
34:58
Speaker 1: Thirty bad bags of items drenched in blood. Some of
35:05
Speaker 1: those items drenched in blood. What more do we know?
35:10
Speaker 1: Take a listen to Nicole Parton from crime online dot com.
35:13
Speaker 10: Sergeant Kevin Duggan of the Connecticut State Police testified about
35:17
Speaker 10: items recovered from trash bins in Hartford, where two people
35:21
Speaker 10: who look like Photus Doulos and Michelle Treconis are seen
35:25
Speaker 10: placing trash bags in random trash bins. After showing the
35:29
Speaker 10: court what appeared to be a bloody bra, a long
35:32
Speaker 10: sleeved shirt is shown to the courtroom. It too looks
35:36
Speaker 10: like it has blood stains on it. The shirt is
35:38
Speaker 10: also cut in much the same way the blood stained
35:41
Speaker 10: bra appeared to be cut right down the middle of
35:44
Speaker 10: the front.
35:45
Speaker 15: Dung In testifies that the uncovered zip ties, plastic pontros,
35:49
Speaker 15: a white T shirt, a BAP towel, black gloves, a screwdriver,
35:53
Speaker 15: and a box cutter, and all appeared to have blood
35:56
Speaker 15: leg stains. Dungan also points out that a blood lake
35:59
Speaker 15: substance was on the edges of a broken razor blade
36:01
Speaker 15: in the discarded bags.
36:03
Speaker 1: Tell our hearts joining us from the heart for current
36:06
Speaker 1: Do the prosecutors believe that the box cutter is the
36:10
Speaker 1: murder weapon.
36:10
Speaker 7: Prosecutors haven't indicated at all what they think the murder
36:13
Speaker 7: weapon was or even how Jennifer died. And that was
36:17
Speaker 7: the first time we heard about that box cutter being
36:19
Speaker 7: pulled from those trash cans, and the prosecution surprisingly didn't
36:22
Speaker 7: spend much time on it.
36:24
Speaker 1: It could have been something akin to being used to
36:29
Speaker 1: cut the bra. I wonder if there were any fibers
36:32
Speaker 1: on it, like bra fabric fibers or fabric from the shirt,
36:38
Speaker 1: even fabric from the zip ties which were also sliced.
36:41
Speaker 7: Prosecutors didn't mention if there was any if there were
36:44
Speaker 7: any fibers on that box cutter. They said that there
36:46
Speaker 7: was a little bit of a blood like substance on
36:48
Speaker 7: the tip, but when they held that shirt and that
36:51
Speaker 7: bra up in court. It really was a clean cut
36:54
Speaker 7: right down the center of both. So I think it's
36:57
Speaker 7: plausible that that box cutter could be what cut those clothes.
37:00
Speaker 1: You know what we're not mentioning, Doctre Angela Arnold the moments,
37:06
Speaker 1: the last moments that Jennifer Doulas was alive in that
37:11
Speaker 1: garage where there is so much blood. We know she
37:13
Speaker 1: had to die. She as so much blood out of
37:15
Speaker 1: her body. It's been estimated at I guess around a gallon. Oh,
37:21
Speaker 1: you know, But her last moments, what was she thinking?
37:23
Speaker 1: She had just dropped her children off school. It's about
37:26
Speaker 1: eight o'clock in the morning, she got out of her
37:30
Speaker 1: vehicle in the garage and was murdered. And I wonder
37:34
Speaker 1: if she thought, I just want to see my children,
37:36
Speaker 1: I just want to be back the way it was yesterday.
37:39
Speaker 1: I mean, do you even have time to think at
37:42
Speaker 1: all when you're under attack?
37:44
Speaker 6: Doddreji, Well, you know, Nancy, I can only imagine as
37:48
Speaker 6: that she was probably thinking, who's going to take care
37:51
Speaker 6: of my children now? Who is going to be there
37:54
Speaker 6: for them? That would probably be her first thought, because
37:58
Speaker 6: it sounds like the attack were so violent.
38:01
Speaker 3: That.
38:02
Speaker 6: I'm sure she was in a state of shock when
38:04
Speaker 6: it initially started to happen, but there was probably some
38:09
Speaker 6: awareness on her part that she wasn't going to live
38:12
Speaker 6: from us?
38:12
Speaker 1: Is that true? Doctor Errit Aeson, who has done literally
38:16
Speaker 1: ten thousand death investigations. Doctor Aeson, is it your belief
38:20
Speaker 1: that murder victims are cognizant as they are dying?
38:25
Speaker 4: It depends on how the cause of that occurs. That
38:27
Speaker 4: this was a gunsh out wind of the head, it
38:29
Speaker 4: would have been very quick and a rapid loss of consciousness,
38:32
Speaker 4: rapid death. But if it was a sharp force injury situation,
38:36
Speaker 4: there's going to be a time period where they're losing
38:39
Speaker 4: blood very quickly and would have gone through a state
38:41
Speaker 4: of despair.
38:42
Speaker 1: Yes, tell our hearts joining us from the Hartford current.
38:46
Speaker 1: I need to understand the timeline when voters do los
38:51
Speaker 1: of Michelle Traconis were disposing of all the bloody evidence.
38:55
Speaker 1: Where were the children at that time? What time of
38:58
Speaker 1: the day was this. Were they already home and realizing
39:01
Speaker 1: mommy was gone?
39:02
Speaker 7: Or so? That day May twenty fourth, the kids were
39:06
Speaker 7: actually headed to New York City because that's where their
39:08
Speaker 7: orthodontist was, so they had a half day at school,
39:12
Speaker 7: and their nanny picked them up and brought them to
39:14
Speaker 7: New York City to their grandmother's house. She has an
39:17
Speaker 7: apartment in Manhattan, and they were there waiting for Jennifer
39:22
Speaker 7: was supposed to meet them there and go with them
39:24
Speaker 7: to the orthodontist. And that was one of the first,
39:26
Speaker 7: you know, flags that was raised that she wasn't at
39:28
Speaker 7: her mom's house in New York when she was supposed
39:31
Speaker 7: to be. The nanny ended up taking the kids to
39:34
Speaker 7: their orthodontis appointment in a cab and when she got
39:38
Speaker 7: there and Jennifer wasn't there either, she really started to panic.
39:41
Speaker 7: That's what she told us when she took the stand
39:44
Speaker 7: last week. But the kids stayed with their grandmother from
39:48
Speaker 7: that moment. I believe one of their daughters was still
39:51
Speaker 7: in nu Canaan with a friend, but one of Jennifer's
39:54
Speaker 7: friends went and picked her up and brought her to
39:56
Speaker 7: the grandmother's house, and Jennifer's mother had them in her
40:00
Speaker 7: apartment with an armed guard outside almost immediately, so by
40:04
Speaker 7: the time photos was spotted on Albany Avenue, they were
40:07
Speaker 7: already locked in securely to their grandmother's apartment and they've
40:11
Speaker 7: been there pretty much ever since.
40:13
Speaker 1: While the children are trying to figure out where's mommy, Photos,
40:17
Speaker 1: Delos and his mistress are out disposing of bloody items.
40:20
Speaker 1: Is that what time? That was correct?
40:22
Speaker 7: And Photos wrote in those alibi scripts or timelines, and
40:28
Speaker 7: the nanny testified that Photos was calling the nanny, he
40:33
Speaker 7: was checking in with her. He was saying, can I
40:35
Speaker 7: see the kids? But he was really worried about whether
40:38
Speaker 7: she was going to bring them back to Connecticut. Jennifer
40:42
Speaker 7: and Photos were in the middle of a really heated
40:44
Speaker 7: custody battle when she was killed, and part of that
40:47
Speaker 7: was scheduled supervisor visitations, and this was the start of
40:52
Speaker 7: Memorial Day weekend and Photos was supposed to have a
40:54
Speaker 7: visit with them that weekend. And while his wife was missing,
40:57
Speaker 7: he was texting the nanny asking if she was bringing
41:01
Speaker 7: the kids to Connecticut, make sure you leave New York
41:03
Speaker 7: early enough that you get to New Caenaan on time
41:05
Speaker 7: for our visit. And nanny kind of went along with
41:09
Speaker 7: those texts, and she testified on the stand that she
41:11
Speaker 7: had no intention of ever bringing them to that visit,
41:14
Speaker 7: and she didn't. They stayed in New York.
41:16
Speaker 1: Speaking of the alibi scripts. The defense has fought tooth
41:20
Speaker 1: and nailed to keep that phraseology out of the courtroom.
41:24
Speaker 1: Take a listener to our friend Dave Mackett Crime online in.
41:27
Speaker 14: Fifty Interest Warrens is something State police called alibi scripts.
41:31
Speaker 14: Retired Connecticut's State Police Sergeant Matthew Riley testified investigators found
41:36
Speaker 14: three photocopied pages of an alibi script in a computer
41:39
Speaker 14: bag from the Dulo's homes mudroom. Forra con has told
41:43
Speaker 14: police the documents were an out line of activities that
41:45
Speaker 14: photus Dulo's and Michelle Traconas did the day Jennifer Dulos
41:48
Speaker 14: vanished and the following day. Traconas told police they prepared
41:52
Speaker 14: the papers based on advice from a divorce attorney.
41:55
Speaker 16: Michelle Traconis's lawyer, John Schohenhorn, doesn't want the documents called
41:59
Speaker 16: alibi scripts in front of the jury and requested the
42:02
Speaker 16: judge ban the prosecution and witnesses from using the phrase
42:05
Speaker 16: alibi scripts, claiming the term would be too prejudicial.
42:09
Speaker 1: I understand the defense was successful. Tailor hearts, yes.
42:12
Speaker 7: So they have heavily objected to that phrasing of alibi scripts.
42:17
Speaker 7: And I believe while we are having this discussion. Shawan
42:21
Speaker 7: Horne even brought that term up in court this morning
42:25
Speaker 7: and told the judge that the media continues to refer
42:29
Speaker 7: to them as alibiscripts, which he considers to be prejudicial.
42:34
Speaker 7: So they're really being called handwritten, no timelines, no photocopies
42:39
Speaker 7: in court. They're not bringing up that term alibi script
42:43
Speaker 7: in front of the jury at least.
42:44
Speaker 1: Is it true that the jury is about six hours
42:48
Speaker 1: Michelle treconis speaking to police.
42:52
Speaker 7: Yes, that's true. I think those videos are due to
42:54
Speaker 7: start any minute being shown to the jury. There was
42:57
Speaker 7: some discussion this morning about what order the videos are
43:00
Speaker 7: going to be shown in, but there's a pretty lengthy
43:03
Speaker 7: interrogation that Michelle went through over the course of three
43:07
Speaker 7: separate interviews, and the jury is about to see almost
43:10
Speaker 7: all of that.
43:11
Speaker 1: I wonder what their reaction will be when they say
43:13
Speaker 1: Michelle Tracona is very calm until one of the cops
43:17
Speaker 1: mentions that photos Dulas was trying to get back with
43:20
Speaker 1: his wife, and she nuts up. You know, I understand
43:24
Speaker 1: that there was a reaction in the courtroom when Jennifer
43:26
Speaker 1: dulos Is bra and Short were introduced. It to evidence.
43:30
Speaker 1: What happened that was the.
43:32
Speaker 7: First time that we really saw an emotional reaction in
43:35
Speaker 7: the courtroom. The energy in there was really palpable. You
43:39
Speaker 7: could feel a shift. So Michelle's family is sitting on
43:43
Speaker 7: the left side behind the defense and they're relatively stoic,
43:48
Speaker 7: calm the whole time, and Jennifer's friends and family over
43:51
Speaker 7: on the right side have been the same. They take
43:53
Speaker 7: notes occasionally, but they're pretty calm and collected. Until that
43:58
Speaker 7: shirt and bra were held, you could see her friends
44:01
Speaker 7: wiping away tears. When investigators talked about that logo on
44:08
Speaker 7: the Vineyard vine shirt that said every day should feel
44:10
Speaker 7: as good, Jennifer's best friend hung her head in her
44:14
Speaker 7: hands and sighed. I think that was a really tough
44:17
Speaker 7: moment for her, and her friends gave each other a
44:20
Speaker 7: hug afterward. And after we saw that evidence, the family
44:24
Speaker 7: released the statement, and that's the first statement they've made
44:27
Speaker 7: since the trial started. They said that seeing those bloody
44:31
Speaker 7: clothing items was brutal for them, but really necessary, and
44:35
Speaker 7: that they hope that it dispels any theory that Jennifer
44:40
Speaker 7: disappeared or did vanished from her kids lives on purpose.
44:46
Speaker 7: They hope that that evidence shows that he was murdered
44:51
Speaker 7: and that she is dead.
44:52
Speaker 1: I am imagining their reaction in court. I remember at
44:57
Speaker 1: the murder trial after my fiance was murdered, when I
45:00
Speaker 1: got off the witness stand, I saw unprepared his bloody
45:07
Speaker 1: clothes and I had not seen them. I didn't know
45:09
Speaker 1: they were going to be there. And I remember looking
45:12
Speaker 1: at them and I just kept walking out, but it
45:16
Speaker 1: was indelibly marked in my mind and memory. I'll never
45:22
Speaker 1: forget it. I'm just glad that her children are not
45:26
Speaker 1: in court to see their mom's bloody clothes. We wait
45:31
Speaker 1: as just as unfolds.
45:33
Speaker 3: Goodbye friend,