Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Katie’s Revenge

Transcript

Katie’s Revenge · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

0:01
Speaker 1: Hey, Wicked Fam, I already fucked that up. Hey Wicked Fam.
0:06
Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, And you're listening to Wicked and Grim,
0:10
Speaker 2: a true gram podcast. Good morning following podcast.
0:20
Speaker 1: At your audience listener, just watch well, hello, hello, Hello,
0:41
Speaker 1: Happy Tuesday. If you're listening to this on Tuesday.
0:44
Speaker 2: And if you're listening to any other day of the week,
0:46
Speaker 2: happy any other day of the week.
0:47
Speaker 1: There you go. We are like hair straight back around here.
0:52
Speaker 2: Oh my god. I feel like we talk about that
0:54
Speaker 2: every podcast, but well, it just its.
0:56
Speaker 1: Like our life right now because we're listening our hosts.
0:58
Speaker 1: This week, the tie home gets delivered. This week, I'm
1:02
Speaker 1: traveling to Victoria to shoot a wedding. It's just like
1:05
Speaker 1: it's a busy.
1:06
Speaker 2: Week and I'm on a frantic treasure hunt.
1:08
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you should have been doing that today.
1:10
Speaker 2: I should have long story, shortly work put out a
1:13
Speaker 2: treasure hunt for seven grand hidden in a cash out
1:15
Speaker 2: in the bush.
1:16
Speaker 1: So yeah, and you're not on it, Like what the heck?
1:18
Speaker 2: Well, I think tomorrow after work, I'm going to go
1:20
Speaker 2: look for it because I think I solve the riddle.
1:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I have a feeling that it could already
1:25
Speaker 1: be gone, I don't know.
1:26
Speaker 2: I work with a lot of people who are not
1:29
Speaker 2: known for their IQ, so I think I might be golden.
1:33
Speaker 1: No comment, it's true, no comment.
1:36
Speaker 2: I work in an industry where post secondary isn't a requirement.
1:39
Speaker 2: In fact, high school graduation isn't a requirement.
1:42
Speaker 1: Oh really yeah, Oh I didn't even know that. I
1:44
Speaker 1: didn't know that.
1:45
Speaker 2: Actually, well, I mean for majority of them, they want
1:47
Speaker 2: it just for the sake of it. But yeah, my
1:49
Speaker 2: specific work site does not require high school graduation.
1:52
Speaker 1: But you've graduated high school. Just to clarify, I have you,
1:55
Speaker 1: thank god, Yeah, and I have post secondary. Just to
1:58
Speaker 1: let everyone know you do. Actually, yeah, we both do.
2:01
Speaker 2: Yeah we're smarties. Boom.
2:04
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, this is so exciting, you know, it's like
2:08
Speaker 1: really shit.
2:09
Speaker 2: Also, I just want to say, you guys are too
2:12
Speaker 2: good on Instagram.
2:13
Speaker 1: Oh I know, Okay, one day we're going to win
2:16
Speaker 1: one day.
2:17
Speaker 2: One day I thought we had them for sure.
2:18
Speaker 1: I did, and I knew for sure. I was like,
2:20
Speaker 1: that's too easy.
2:21
Speaker 2: Well, I was like, okay, there might be one or
2:23
Speaker 2: two people who like know this case specifically, and they'll
2:26
Speaker 2: guess it. Maybe if we're lucky or if they're lucky.
2:30
Speaker 2: But clearly this is more of a like a well
2:34
Speaker 2: known thing or something. I don't know. I never heard
2:36
Speaker 2: boom boom boom. Everyone just knew.
2:38
Speaker 1: I know. But I mean, like they're true crime junkies, Like, yeah,
2:42
Speaker 1: that's the thing.
2:43
Speaker 2: I feel like we're the amateurs, even though sometimes like.
2:48
Speaker 1: I know what that is and I was like, really,
2:50
Speaker 1: I just learned about it the other day.
2:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, well either, but anyway, we're gonna make it harder,
2:55
Speaker 3: maybe even blurring photos.
2:57
Speaker 2: Out from here on out.
2:59
Speaker 1: And now I know a lot about this case.
3:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot, a lot.
3:03
Speaker 1: So you ready?
3:05
Speaker 2: Wait?
3:05
Speaker 1: No, no yet, oh right.
3:08
Speaker 2: Now, I'm ready.
3:09
Speaker 1: Now it's official. Now we can officially get our shit
3:11
Speaker 1: together out here.
3:12
Speaker 2: I'm going white girl today with white Claw.
3:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, Mango. The cherry is the best though, no it's not.
3:19
Speaker 1: I think cherry is the best. Okay. So this is
3:21
Speaker 1: the story of Caitlin Coleman. But she went by Katie. Katie,
3:25
Speaker 1: Katie Coleman.
3:26
Speaker 2: Let's hear about Katie Katie. What's your story?
3:29
Speaker 1: Oh? Man, you know what, it's just shitty, But that's okay.
3:31
Speaker 2: Well I kind of know a little bit. And yeah, but.
3:33
Speaker 1: It was January twenty fifth, two thousand and five, and
3:37
Speaker 1: it started out just like any other day.
3:39
Speaker 2: That's good. It's good, sun was shining maybe.
3:41
Speaker 1: But you know when someone says it started out just
3:43
Speaker 1: like any other day, you can't know.
3:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's shit. You know the rest is going down here?
3:47
Speaker 1: Am I right? So Katie woke up pad breakfast prepared
3:51
Speaker 1: for her day, and her father John Okay, so I
3:57
Speaker 1: already fucked this upisode to go, had breakfast prepared her
4:00
Speaker 1: mom Angela okay, and then her father John drove her
4:04
Speaker 1: to school.
4:04
Speaker 2: Okay. That's a huge difference there.
4:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean she's still prepared for her day.
4:09
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I missed that her mom made
4:11
Speaker 1: her lovely breakfast, and that just shows that her mom's
4:13
Speaker 1: probably pretty cool.
4:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, cheers to those moms out there doing that hard
4:16
Speaker 2: work for those kids.
4:17
Speaker 1: Exactly, they work hard.
4:18
Speaker 2: Those dads too, don't forget that.
4:20
Speaker 1: Well, the dad drove to school exactly. There you go,
4:22
Speaker 1: all those parents. Yeah, she attended Crawl. Oh, we already
4:27
Speaker 1: went over this Crowther Crotherson, Crowthersville.
4:33
Speaker 2: It was Brother by the Sea, Brother Brother.
4:36
Speaker 1: See. I listened to it like I'm pronounced, and then
4:39
Speaker 1: I'm like reading it on I already forgot Okay, Crothersville, Crothersville,
4:44
Speaker 1: Brothersville nailed it. Now, you guys are all gonna remember.
4:47
Speaker 1: So she attended Crothersville Elementary School in Indiana. Once school
4:52
Speaker 1: was out for the day, Katie headed home as per usual,
4:56
Speaker 1: this was around three o'clock. She arrived home to find
4:59
Speaker 1: her mom busy preparing dinner.
5:01
Speaker 2: Good mom doing the good mom stuff.
5:02
Speaker 1: And breakfast now making dinner like cool And this makes
5:06
Speaker 1: her sound like an absolute little angel, but she wanted
5:09
Speaker 1: to help her mom out, so she volunteered to walk
5:12
Speaker 1: to the nearby store to pick up some toilet paper
5:15
Speaker 1: because the family was like pretty much out of ass white.
5:19
Speaker 2: She's a little angel, they're out of ass white. Way
5:22
Speaker 2: to just drink that?
5:24
Speaker 1: I don't know, Well, like what a sweet little.
5:25
Speaker 2: Girl, right, definitely, I can just picture now, he mom,
5:28
Speaker 2: do you need me to go to the store to
5:29
Speaker 2: pick up some ass?
5:30
Speaker 1: Why she didn't say ass white.
5:32
Speaker 2: I'm sure she did. I'm picturing it. She did.
5:34
Speaker 1: She said it, And I don't even think I actually
5:37
Speaker 1: mentioned this in here. But she's like ten, she's ten
5:39
Speaker 1: years old. I don't think I said that. So she's
5:41
Speaker 1: this little bean, you know, yeah, her mom agreed and
5:43
Speaker 1: gave her some money. The store she was heading to
5:46
Speaker 1: was about a block and a half away, and Katie
5:49
Speaker 1: did do this trek often. It wasn't like her first role,
5:52
Speaker 1: She's done it before. And I wanted to mention that
5:55
Speaker 1: the town they lived in, Bruthersville, was a small town
5:58
Speaker 1: about like fifteen hundred.
6:00
Speaker 2: People are so, okay, it's definitely small.
6:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is small. So everyone knew everyone, and it
6:05
Speaker 1: came across as a as a relative safe town. But
6:09
Speaker 1: we'll we'll dive into that.
6:11
Speaker 2: One of those places like maybe you can like leave
6:12
Speaker 2: your door unlocked it nights sort of thing.
6:14
Speaker 1: Well, I mean like everyone was up in everyone's business.
6:16
Speaker 1: So and here's okay, this is like a little side
6:20
Speaker 1: story that I wanted to include.
6:21
Speaker 2: Let's hear it, what you got.
6:22
Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with Katie, but it just
6:25
Speaker 1: gives some contexts on like the size of the town.
6:28
Speaker 1: That it appeared to be somewhat of a religious town,
6:31
Speaker 1: and that, like I said, everyone you know knows knows
6:34
Speaker 1: your business.
6:35
Speaker 2: Yeah.
6:36
Speaker 1: So a porn store opened in two thousand and five
6:40
Speaker 1: called lions Den. Do you dig it?
6:43
Speaker 2: Lies?
6:44
Speaker 1: Then? Actually, yeah, means the name I'm taking a sip
6:47
Speaker 1: of water here?
6:47
Speaker 2: Do it take that sip hydrate? It's important.
6:50
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's hot here, it's.
6:51
Speaker 2: Like thirty five degrees celsius right.
6:52
Speaker 1: Now, it's I think it's twenty five. You're way wrong.
6:57
Speaker 2: Then Why do I like sweat just for laying in bed?
7:01
Speaker 2: Like what the fuck?
7:02
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's only twenty five stories.
7:04
Speaker 2: Dude, No malarkey, I call malarkey. It's twenty eight.
7:08
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I was closer.
7:09
Speaker 2: And it's seven thirty pm right now, so it's been
7:11
Speaker 2: cooling off a bit.
7:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, so okay. So from the day the store opened,
7:17
Speaker 1: Christian protesters set up a platform alongside the fence of
7:22
Speaker 1: the property in order to photograph people walking in and
7:26
Speaker 1: out of the store dick move. This was done day
7:30
Speaker 1: and night, with the photos later being posted to a
7:33
Speaker 1: website that they alleged they said, we'll get two million views,
7:38
Speaker 1: like sure. The protest organizer was the pastor of the
7:44
Speaker 1: First Baptist Church, and the group called themselves the Union
7:48
Speaker 1: Town Watchdogs. Among writing down license plates and notifying trucking
7:54
Speaker 1: companies if their drivers stopped at the store, they would
7:57
Speaker 1: sometimes yell comments at people entering this porn store and
8:02
Speaker 1: offer them free bibles.
8:04
Speaker 2: I would be one of those people who goes in
8:07
Speaker 2: repeatedly and makes my face known. I would go into
8:10
Speaker 2: the store and I would come out with a blow
8:12
Speaker 2: up doll blown up under my arm and being like something.
8:15
Speaker 1: Just to stir up, stir. Yes, it's a bit much like, oh, definitely,
8:23
Speaker 1: just let people live their life, Like, let them just
8:25
Speaker 1: live their life.
8:26
Speaker 2: If someone wants to get their kink on, let them
8:28
Speaker 2: get the kink on, don't kink shame.
8:29
Speaker 1: And I mean it's a store, it's not like it's
8:31
Speaker 1: like against the law, yep. Anyway, So several complaints were
8:36
Speaker 1: also made because at night, the Uniontown Watchdogs would shine
8:40
Speaker 1: a floodlin light in the faces of drivers like passing by,
8:45
Speaker 1: like in preparation to take their photo. So this is
8:47
Speaker 1: like a freaking safety hazard. You imagine driving along the
8:50
Speaker 1: road and thou and this thing just shines right in
8:53
Speaker 1: your face.
8:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, that that's a major car accident waiting to happen.
8:56
Speaker 2: You think, I get someone drive by with like just
8:59
Speaker 2: not even high on me at night, like a little
9:01
Speaker 2: extra bright lights, and I'm like about to hit the ditch.
9:04
Speaker 1: I know. Yeah, And I mean it was like our
9:07
Speaker 1: Am I getting abducted by an alien here or what's
9:10
Speaker 1: going on? So the store was eventually shut down, Like,
9:16
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just inevitable, with the reason that the
9:19
Speaker 1: store violated a country licensing or ordinance being in operation
9:24
Speaker 1: within a thousand feet of a residence. Oh god, So
9:27
Speaker 1: I mean they just like, I don't know, that just
9:28
Speaker 1: sounds like made up shiit to me. But anyway, So
9:31
Speaker 1: that's that's the town. Sweet so little Christian Brouthersville. Welcome
9:37
Speaker 1: to Crothersville.
9:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, the good old Brothersville. You know, just porn shaming
9:43
Speaker 2: people and stuff.
9:44
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, okay, So the katy So she was on
9:48
Speaker 1: route to pick up the toilet paper, right and the toilet.
9:52
Speaker 1: This place, I think it was like a dollar store,
9:54
Speaker 1: was about a block and a half away from her home,
9:57
Speaker 1: so not really that far.
9:58
Speaker 2: She knows the root sort of thing.
10:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's good, yea, yeah, totally. Like she's ten. I
10:02
Speaker 1: mean probably at that age you kind of can venture,
10:05
Speaker 1: especially if you're in a small town.
10:06
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know. I grew up on a dirt
10:09
Speaker 2: road out in the sticks, like I was by ten,
10:12
Speaker 2: biking kilometers up the road, going out in the bush,
10:14
Speaker 2: playing with friends, and stuff.
10:16
Speaker 1: So yeah, and I like, I lived pretty close to
10:18
Speaker 1: my elementary school, so I'm pretty sure by then I
10:21
Speaker 1: was like expected.
10:21
Speaker 2: To walk home. Yeah, most likely.
10:24
Speaker 1: So after purchasing the toilet paper. However, the ass, white
10:28
Speaker 1: ass white.
10:29
Speaker 2: Get that, get it right, Come.
10:30
Speaker 1: On now, Katie did not return home. Katie, she did
10:35
Speaker 1: not return home. Initially, Katie's mom wasn't really worried. Katie
10:39
Speaker 1: was a very popular girl with a lot of friends
10:42
Speaker 1: along the route that she traveled, so the mom kind
10:45
Speaker 1: of just figured that she got caught up playing. Yeah,
10:48
Speaker 1: you know, didn't really realize.
10:50
Speaker 2: The time shit happens.
10:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that's like something a ten
10:54
Speaker 1: year old would do. But she did start making some
10:56
Speaker 1: calls to see if anyone knew where her daughter was.
10:59
Speaker 1: When Nole came of this, and by this time, Katie's
11:03
Speaker 1: father was also home from work, they started getting a
11:06
Speaker 1: bit more worried for their daughter's safety and went out
11:08
Speaker 1: themselves to search for their little girl, following the route
11:11
Speaker 1: that she would have taken.
11:12
Speaker 2: Again back in that good old parenting. Yeah, they're doing
11:16
Speaker 2: their thing. They're doing it right, They're doing.
11:18
Speaker 1: A good job. I like these parents, yeah, because they're
11:22
Speaker 1: good parents. But I mean they probably, like I imagine
11:25
Speaker 1: like the mom probably feels guilty, probably, which is really shitty.
11:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're a little bit off your microphone, You're you're
11:32
Speaker 2: drifting a bit.
11:33
Speaker 1: Well, because we're not facing each other, you're bothering me.
11:36
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sorry that we're in an awkward room right
11:39
Speaker 2: now because we're trying to make our house look good
11:40
Speaker 2: to sell it. Yeah, just turn your points towards your
11:42
Speaker 2: mouth a bit more like this. There you go, because
11:45
Speaker 2: I have a feeling you might drift and like to
11:47
Speaker 2: probably do it again. Yeah, talking like this and you
11:49
Speaker 2: can't really hear shit because you're over here sort of thing,
11:51
Speaker 2: you know.
11:53
Speaker 1: Okay, So it was around seven thirty eight when they
11:55
Speaker 1: called the police to report their daughter missing, gotcha, and
12:00
Speaker 1: she left to go to the story around three, so
12:02
Speaker 1: it was a little bit of time in there, right.
12:04
Speaker 1: So when the police arrived at Katie's house, there were
12:07
Speaker 1: already hundreds of people out searching for Katie. Oh wow,
12:11
Speaker 1: you know, like they all want to do their part.
12:13
Speaker 1: Their search went through the night. They had a helicopter
12:16
Speaker 1: and sent dogs on it. Katie's scent led the dogs
12:20
Speaker 1: to the nearby train tracks, but then the scent was
12:23
Speaker 1: lost again.
12:24
Speaker 2: Oh shit.
12:25
Speaker 1: A neighbor did tell Katie's family that on the day
12:27
Speaker 1: she disappeared, she had come to their house to let
12:30
Speaker 1: them know their dog had been killed on the train tracks.
12:34
Speaker 1: So she was over there and one of the neighbors
12:37
Speaker 1: did know, which is shitty that the dog died too.
12:39
Speaker 2: I was thinking, like someone like drug her over there
12:41
Speaker 2: and on the train.
12:42
Speaker 1: Or something I know, I know, or like that she
12:45
Speaker 1: just took off on a train or.
12:47
Speaker 2: Well, by the sounds of it, I can't see Katie
12:49
Speaker 2: taking off on her own sEH.
12:50
Speaker 1: I don't think she would do that. So it wasn't
12:52
Speaker 1: until two days later that an amber alert was issued.
12:56
Speaker 1: There was no initial evidence of an abduction until an
13:00
Speaker 1: eyewitness came forward claiming they saw a girl who looked
13:03
Speaker 1: like Katie in a white pickup truck. The witness described
13:07
Speaker 1: the driver as a very skinny, white man about six
13:10
Speaker 1: feet tall, with short, dark hair and a fair complexion. Okay, okay,
13:15
Speaker 1: So a sketch was a released of this, and I
13:18
Speaker 1: should almost like the sketches just like horrific. Like I
13:21
Speaker 1: saw the sketch and I was like, holy shit, I
13:22
Speaker 1: could be a sketch artist. Should because it's like not good,
13:26
Speaker 1: Like like I'm saying that because I'm a terrible driver
13:28
Speaker 1: or driver.
13:30
Speaker 2: I mean you will kind of all gay.
13:32
Speaker 1: Actually I'm an amazing driver.
13:34
Speaker 2: You have road rage out the ass, Okay.
13:36
Speaker 1: But that's not really bad though, yes, is bad. I
13:39
Speaker 1: don't ever like I just like swear when I'm driving,
13:41
Speaker 1: I don't do anything.
13:42
Speaker 2: And then you speed up and tailgate the guy that
13:44
Speaker 2: you all know.
13:46
Speaker 1: I do not tailgate. That's like my pet peeve, like,
13:48
Speaker 1: don't tailgate. Don't tailgate. That will make me just like
13:51
Speaker 1: lose my shit.
13:52
Speaker 2: See, I'm like, if someone pisses me off, I don't swear,
13:55
Speaker 2: I don't curse, but well maybe a little bit, but
13:57
Speaker 2: I don't get mad, but I will fucking tailgate the
13:59
Speaker 2: ship that of them, and I will let them know that.
14:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been tail getting is the worst. Like if
14:03
Speaker 1: someone if I'm just like driving to work and someone's
14:05
Speaker 1: tailing to me, instantly, my day's shit. It's like back off, okay,
14:11
Speaker 1: if I may.
14:12
Speaker 2: I've got a bit of a story for everyone listening
14:13
Speaker 2: out there. We own a Chevy Silverado, bright fucking orange
14:19
Speaker 2: pickup truck.
14:20
Speaker 1: Like it's think of a pylon because like Ben likes
14:23
Speaker 1: to be noticed.
14:24
Speaker 2: I like bright colors. I'm an out there kind of guy.
14:26
Speaker 2: It's like a pylon color, like in a construction zone.
14:29
Speaker 2: For whatever reason, this thing is just a magnet for
14:33
Speaker 2: people cutting you off. Like I can drive a car,
14:36
Speaker 2: another truck, suv, whatever, other people's vehicle, never get cut off.
14:40
Speaker 2: Drive this truck. You will get cut off two or
14:42
Speaker 2: three times just going downtown.
14:44
Speaker 1: And I've been driving it recently just because our car
14:47
Speaker 1: isn't like doing the best of shape. And yeah, you're right,
14:51
Speaker 1: it's ridiculous.
14:53
Speaker 2: I don't understand.
14:53
Speaker 1: It is actually is crazy, like it just blows your mind. Okay,
14:58
Speaker 1: you're down. What's the story?
14:59
Speaker 2: Sorry?
15:00
Speaker 1: You done?
15:01
Speaker 2: I digress. I'm sorry.
15:02
Speaker 1: Okay, that's fine. Now we all know. Okay, So the
15:05
Speaker 1: witness also mentioned the girl in the truck did not
15:08
Speaker 1: appear to be in distress.
15:10
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know.
15:11
Speaker 1: I just thought i'd throw it in there. Missing person
15:14
Speaker 1: posters described Katie as being four feet six inches with
15:19
Speaker 1: chin length, brown hair and brown eyes. She was last
15:22
Speaker 1: spotted wearing a red shirt, black sweatpants with a stripe
15:26
Speaker 1: down the leg, black tennis shoes, and a medium light
15:30
Speaker 1: blue winter coat. It also described Katie as having a
15:33
Speaker 1: lazy eye.
15:36
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but as soon as you described the sweatpants
15:38
Speaker 2: with a stripe down the leg, I was just taken
15:40
Speaker 2: back to like two thousand and three with like juicy
15:42
Speaker 2: written across some booty.
15:44
Speaker 1: I don't know why, Yeah, well this okay, I'm just
15:48
Speaker 1: trying to think in two thousand and five, like I
15:52
Speaker 1: guess we would have been a little bit older. Hey yeah,
15:55
Speaker 1: oh yeah, we.
15:56
Speaker 2: Were school two thousand and six.
15:58
Speaker 1: Okay, never mind, we're older. Because I was like, I
16:00
Speaker 1: probably have pants like that.
16:01
Speaker 2: Did you? Did you have juicy booty? No?
16:03
Speaker 1: I didn't do the juicy booty sweatpants, but I definitely
16:06
Speaker 1: had like the track pant that had like the buttons
16:10
Speaker 1: on it that you.
16:10
Speaker 2: Could just like the tarraways. Yeah, yeah, you.
16:12
Speaker 1: Know I had. They were red and they had purple accents.
16:17
Speaker 2: Well we should do is we should get tearaway sweatpants
16:21
Speaker 2: with Juicy written on them on the bottom.
16:23
Speaker 1: And sell them for money.
16:24
Speaker 2: No, just you and me wear them.
16:26
Speaker 1: No one would buy that.
16:27
Speaker 2: We'd walk around town just wearing juicy terrorways.
16:30
Speaker 1: Wow, we would have no friends.
16:32
Speaker 2: Oh, you can have Juicy on it and mine can
16:34
Speaker 2: say booty there.
16:36
Speaker 1: We go, we'll walk down the street together.
16:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll be juicy booty or booty juicy.
16:40
Speaker 1: I guess. Okay. So these parents issued a written statement
16:44
Speaker 1: pleading for their daughter's safer turn, saying, please do not
16:49
Speaker 1: harm her. We asked you just drop her off anywhere
16:51
Speaker 1: so that she may return to a family and community
16:54
Speaker 1: loves her very much and misses her dearly. Like I
16:57
Speaker 1: can only imagine like these four parents like that, what heartbreaking.
17:02
Speaker 1: So it was on the fifth day of the search,
17:05
Speaker 1: so January thirtieth, that the search would end for the town,
17:10
Speaker 1: but not in the way that everyone wanted it to end.
17:12
Speaker 2: Of course.
17:14
Speaker 1: Katie's parents received news that Katie's body had been found
17:17
Speaker 1: in a creek by an Indiana State Police trooper, the
17:21
Speaker 1: creek being in the I think it's Cypress Lake area,
17:25
Speaker 1: around nineteen miles away from Katie's home. Her hands were
17:29
Speaker 1: bound behind her back. She had been raped, and her
17:33
Speaker 1: final cause of death was drowning. Poor Katie, Like my
17:37
Speaker 1: heart just like sinks for her.
17:40
Speaker 2: That's that's just so sad.
17:42
Speaker 1: It's like ten, like she just didn't get to like live.
17:45
Speaker 2: Her life, no kidding, and to go through something like
17:47
Speaker 2: that at ten years old too. Yeah, God, whoever did by?
17:51
Speaker 1: People are bringing nasty.
17:53
Speaker 2: You're nasty.
17:55
Speaker 1: I mean I say that so often, but it's just
17:57
Speaker 1: like people are disgusting, Like they're disgusting your nasty. Not
18:02
Speaker 1: long after Katie's body was found, Charles Hickman confessed to
18:06
Speaker 1: the crime and it was arrested and charged with Katie's murder.
18:10
Speaker 2: He just up and just be like, yo, I did it. Yeah,
18:12
Speaker 2: oh shit.
18:13
Speaker 1: He confessed the police that he and another man, Timothy Sullivan,
18:17
Speaker 1: had abducted Katie. I didn't find a lot about this,
18:20
Speaker 1: but some articles mentioned there was maybe a third unnamed
18:23
Speaker 1: mail around seventeen, but there was no name or anything.
18:27
Speaker 1: His story being that Katie witnessed an illegal drug transaction
18:31
Speaker 1: on her way home and they wanted to try and
18:34
Speaker 1: scare her into silence. They brought her to Tim's house
18:38
Speaker 1: and then the creek in a borld white pickup truck,
18:41
Speaker 1: where they tied up her hands and she fell into
18:44
Speaker 1: the creek and accidentally drowned, which point they fled the scene.
18:51
Speaker 1: That's not accidentally drowning.
18:53
Speaker 2: No kidding. So if you're sitting here trying to scare
18:57
Speaker 2: a child, and there's three potential two potentially three of you. Yeah, creek, Yeah,
19:01
Speaker 2: and this child falls I'm assuming face first into the creek.
19:05
Speaker 2: You're gonna go oh no, and just like watch she's
19:08
Speaker 2: accidentally drowning. We should probably do something like no, you
19:14
Speaker 2: get her out, she's not gonna.
19:15
Speaker 1: Drown And I'm sorry, but that's not accidental. That's freaking murder. Yeah,
19:20
Speaker 1: like you murdered her.
19:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, you stood there, she drowned. That's well, I'm not
19:26
Speaker 2: sure if it's straight up murder, but it's definitely.
19:28
Speaker 1: Manslaughter, right, that's what that'd be called, because it's not We.
19:31
Speaker 2: Really need to learn our terminology for that sort of Well,
19:34
Speaker 2: it wasn't like they tended to go murder her.
19:36
Speaker 1: They were intending to just scare her. So yeah's manslaughter.
19:40
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm not too sure. We got to
19:42
Speaker 2: learn her definitions.
19:43
Speaker 1: Yeah. So this Charles Hickman, I like Charles Hickman. I
19:47
Speaker 1: kind of just like that name. For some reason, dude
19:49
Speaker 1: was known within the town as being a bit odd.
19:53
Speaker 1: Charles often standing in his yard gazing at nothing less,
19:57
Speaker 1: which he thought was weird. But like, really he's just
20:00
Speaker 1: like high out of his rick and mind. Probably Like
20:02
Speaker 1: when I read that, I was like, well, he's just high. Yeah,
20:05
Speaker 1: and he did have a record. At the time of
20:07
Speaker 1: Katie's murder, Jackson Country, which includes Cruthersville, was seeing a
20:13
Speaker 1: rise in meth related crime and arrests.
20:16
Speaker 2: Okay, so he was just high in Crystal.
20:18
Speaker 1: So for an example, here in two thousand and four,
20:21
Speaker 1: there was one hundred and sixteen meth related arrests compared
20:24
Speaker 1: to two thousand and two when there was only twenty nine.
20:27
Speaker 1: So like for a low small population town like that
20:30
Speaker 1: is like a jump, oh definitely. Or was it sixteen
20:34
Speaker 1: thousand people fifteen hundred fifty or fifteen.
20:37
Speaker 2: Hundred Oh shit, I thought it was thousand, okay.
20:39
Speaker 1: And then in one year, I mean, this is a
20:41
Speaker 1: bigger area than just the town. But in one year,
20:43
Speaker 1: one hundred and sixteen. Yeah, you know that's a lot.
20:47
Speaker 2: That's a significant jump. Holy shit.
20:49
Speaker 1: So after Katie's death, two facilities making bootleg meth were discovered.
20:56
Speaker 1: So her death did seem to bring an end to this,
20:59
Speaker 1: which is good. Like there was an article about like
21:01
Speaker 1: this brought something good to the town because the facilities
21:05
Speaker 1: were shut down. It was said, shady characters no longer
21:09
Speaker 1: stalk the streets of the one stop like town. However,
21:14
Speaker 1: ribbons of blue, Katie's favorite color, lace the streets and porches,
21:20
Speaker 1: but all and also were gone were the bike riding
21:23
Speaker 1: and dog walking children. Oh no, kids only went out
21:26
Speaker 1: to play when their parents were with them. One father
21:29
Speaker 1: said he would make a mental note each morning what
21:32
Speaker 1: his ten and seven year old were wearing for fear
21:35
Speaker 1: of needing to describe them to the police. Oh God,
21:38
Speaker 1: like all, can you imagine I just destroyed this town? Yeah,
21:44
Speaker 1: I mean it's fifteen hundred people and a freaking ten
21:47
Speaker 1: year old murdered, Like, yes, what the shit? I think
21:50
Speaker 1: he'd be like literally looking around at everyone like who
21:53
Speaker 1: are you actually? You know?
21:55
Speaker 2: And how long after uh katy was discovered did this
21:58
Speaker 2: guy confess to this? Because this was this going on
22:02
Speaker 2: after his arrest?
22:03
Speaker 1: Still, what was going on? Sorry?
22:06
Speaker 2: Where people were not walking their dogs?
22:08
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, like it was so I wonder if.
22:11
Speaker 2: The general public was not believing this confession.
22:16
Speaker 1: I mean I think it just made them think differently, right, Yeah,
22:19
Speaker 1: I guess, Like I think as far as they knew,
22:22
Speaker 1: they had their person. But well, we're going to dive
22:24
Speaker 1: into this event more. Okay, So it appeared to the
22:28
Speaker 1: police that they had their dude right with Charles Hickman.
22:32
Speaker 1: He was shady and the story made sense with the
22:35
Speaker 1: current meth problem the town was facing. But when the
22:38
Speaker 1: police questioned his friend Timothy, he wasn't omitting anything, of course,
22:43
Speaker 1: and he had an alibi. Oh so the story Charles
22:47
Speaker 1: was telling would also change almost every time they talked
22:50
Speaker 1: to him, leaving police to think they needed to keep
22:53
Speaker 1: investigating as this may not actually be their guy.
22:57
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it's just someone who could potentially just
22:59
Speaker 2: be high out of his mind.
23:01
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and he was odd and I don't know,
23:04
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not saying much more here.
23:07
Speaker 2: I think you've got an opinion. Maybe we'll discuss that.
23:09
Speaker 1: We'll discuss that later. So that's exactly what the police did.
23:13
Speaker 1: They started to dig a little bit deeper. That is,
23:16
Speaker 1: when they would have a match of DNA evidence. They
23:19
Speaker 1: found a cigarette butt at the crime scene matching DNA
23:23
Speaker 1: they had found on Katie's body, and the DNA was
23:26
Speaker 1: not a match to Charles oh shit, but rather belonged
23:29
Speaker 1: to an Anthony Ray Stockelman. I think that's how he say.
23:34
Speaker 1: Is Stockelmann, who was not local but was in town
23:38
Speaker 1: visiting his mother when Katie went missing. Anthony, he was
23:42
Speaker 1: married with two children at the time, had no previous
23:45
Speaker 1: convictions for felonies or sex offenses, so he had had
23:49
Speaker 1: a clean slate then. Yeah, like I think there was
23:51
Speaker 1: like minor things like yeah, like minor, like nothing like huge,
23:57
Speaker 1: So I didn't really even dive in that deep. So
24:00
Speaker 1: investigators though, had previously interviewed Anthony because he and his
24:05
Speaker 1: truck matched the description giving to the police by that eyewitness,
24:09
Speaker 1: and he was like nothing but cooperative. I said, I
24:13
Speaker 1: said that really wrong, like cooperative? Okay, he like answered them,
24:20
Speaker 1: He answered them. He was willing to cooperated. Yeah, he
24:24
Speaker 1: was willing to, like you know, he wouldn't seem shady
24:27
Speaker 1: like he did what they wanted. So they wanted to
24:31
Speaker 1: search his truck and they didn't have a warrant, so
24:33
Speaker 1: he let them search his truck. He also took a
24:35
Speaker 1: lie detector test passed. He passed, flying colors passed.
24:40
Speaker 2: Though, to be fair, detector tests are pretty shady in themselves.
24:43
Speaker 1: Well, I have no idea, but like I feel like
24:46
Speaker 1: it just me being the person I am, I probably
24:49
Speaker 1: wouldn't have even murdered someone and taken a lie detector test,
24:52
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't pass, like, right, ship, maybe I did
24:57
Speaker 1: where I'd be like sweating.
25:00
Speaker 2: Did I sleep walk? Did I Did I dream something
25:02
Speaker 2: weird that night? Maybe I don't know. Yeah, no, I
25:05
Speaker 2: feel that through and through.
25:06
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I know, I don't actually know
25:08
Speaker 1: if light detector tests do they even use them?
25:10
Speaker 2: Still, they do, but I don't think they use them
25:13
Speaker 2: very often. I think it's like one of those like
25:16
Speaker 2: kind of last resort to They just they just are
25:18
Speaker 2: digging for something.
25:20
Speaker 1: They're just no, I just think that those now. So
25:24
Speaker 1: he was dismissed as a suspect when he passed the
25:27
Speaker 1: light detector test and Charles had confessed right yeah. But
25:33
Speaker 1: a few weeks later, they arrived once again to collect
25:36
Speaker 1: a DNA sample from Anthony. The DNA and he gave
25:41
Speaker 1: it to them, so he willingly did so. The DNA
25:44
Speaker 1: sample come back as a match, so he was like
25:48
Speaker 1: fucking shocked, apparently. So also matched were red carpet fibers
25:53
Speaker 1: taken from Katie's body, matching a rug in the home
25:57
Speaker 1: of Anthony's mother, So like, that's that's some freaking evidence.
26:02
Speaker 2: There, Yeah, no kidding.
26:04
Speaker 1: He was arrested charged. Oh sorry, I wrote that wrong
26:09
Speaker 1: in my notes. So he was arrested charge and he
26:12
Speaker 1: was up against the death penalty for abducting, molesting, and
26:16
Speaker 1: murdering little Katie.
26:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, rightfully.
26:18
Speaker 1: So his sentencing was scheduled for April seventeenth, two thousand
26:22
Speaker 1: and five. So like this is all pretty quick. Hey,
26:25
Speaker 1: Like her body was discovered in January thirtieth. Yeah, like
26:30
Speaker 1: they did good work here.
26:31
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I'm sure it's a small town sort
26:34
Speaker 2: of thing, so there's.
26:35
Speaker 1: How many suspects do they have, really well.
26:37
Speaker 2: And what other crimes are they're dealing with. They probably
26:39
Speaker 2: were able to expedite the process quite a bit.
26:42
Speaker 1: That's true. Okay. So he was scheduled to have a sentencing,
26:49
Speaker 1: but he took a plea agreement. The agreement being if
26:52
Speaker 1: he pleaded guilty to the charges, the death penalty he
26:56
Speaker 1: was facing would be taken off the table. Like he
26:58
Speaker 1: didn't want the death penalty.
27:00
Speaker 2: Yep.
27:01
Speaker 1: He was sentenced to life imprisonment, imprisonment and an additional
27:05
Speaker 1: thirty years for raping Katie Good. The verdict did have
27:09
Speaker 1: mixed reviews though, like with the family and the people
27:12
Speaker 1: of the town because they wanted him to basically pay
27:15
Speaker 1: the ultimate price, and that was the death penalty, right,
27:17
Speaker 1: Like they were happy that he was still going to
27:19
Speaker 1: be rotting in jail, but like, I don't know, I
27:23
Speaker 1: don't know what would be better, Like if I had
27:25
Speaker 1: someone that did something bad to a loved one, would
27:27
Speaker 1: I rather than rot or just die? Probably just die.
27:30
Speaker 2: I mean it's not like he got away with it,
27:35
Speaker 2: per se. He is there for life. And you said
27:38
Speaker 2: without the chance of parol.
27:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me just see life. Yeah, life imprisonment yet
27:45
Speaker 1: an additional thirty years, So like, yeah, he was in
27:47
Speaker 1: there for life.
27:49
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean he's put away for life, so it's
27:53
Speaker 2: not like, I mean, he's gonna rot. It's not the
27:56
Speaker 2: death penalty, but it's better than him getting fifteen years
28:02
Speaker 2: or something.
28:02
Speaker 1: Do you unimaginable ship? And then they're just like, oh, okay,
28:07
Speaker 1: it's better than nothing. This is where the story takes
28:10
Speaker 1: a bit of a satisfying turn.
28:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the part I was waiting for, and
28:15
Speaker 2: this is the part everyone's waiting for him.
28:16
Speaker 1: So karma, revenge, whatever you want to call it, is
28:19
Speaker 1: freaking sweet sweet my friends. Anthony was sent to Wabash
28:27
Speaker 1: Valley Correctional Facility being that he was convicted of raping
28:30
Speaker 1: and killing a ten year old girl, like his time
28:33
Speaker 1: in prison was just gonna be shitting, like you know, your.
28:35
Speaker 2: Shit rapists and all that sort of stuff. They do
28:40
Speaker 2: not have a good time in prison. Mm hmm nasty.
28:44
Speaker 1: But do you want to know what would make it
28:46
Speaker 1: even less fun?
28:47
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure I already know.
28:48
Speaker 1: But detail a cross paths with the relative of Katie's
28:53
Speaker 1: while in prison, like that is so cool?
28:56
Speaker 2: Like someone maybe I don't know Katie's uncle.
28:59
Speaker 1: It's not it's not wrong, it wrong, get it wrong.
29:03
Speaker 1: So on September nineteenth, two thousand and six, Jared Harris
29:07
Speaker 1: Was who was also serving or sorry, who was serving
29:11
Speaker 1: a burglary sentence, was transferred to the same prison wing
29:15
Speaker 1: as Anthony. Jared was Katie's cousin.
29:20
Speaker 2: Okay, close enough, you were wrong. I was wrong.
29:23
Speaker 1: And this is where the story gets real good. And
29:26
Speaker 1: I should, okay, I should say like I don't like
29:29
Speaker 1: condone violence or anything, but I do believe in karma.
29:34
Speaker 1: And I think if you're a ship bag motherfucker, a
29:36
Speaker 1: shit bag motherfucker, that you deserve anything that comes to you.
29:41
Speaker 2: If you're a ship bag motherfucker, you deserve shit bag
29:43
Speaker 2: motherfucker shit.
29:44
Speaker 1: So, like, I don't condone this, but like karma, I
29:48
Speaker 1: think I think karma is just should just always be
29:51
Speaker 1: a Thingama's.
29:52
Speaker 2: A bitch, Karma is a ship bag motherfucker.
29:56
Speaker 1: Okay. So, on Setember twenty second, two thousand and six,
30:00
Speaker 1: Jared slipped into Anthony's open cell and waited for him
30:04
Speaker 1: to return. When he did, Jared closed the cell door
30:09
Speaker 1: behind him, causing it to lock and trapping Anthony in
30:12
Speaker 1: the cell with him. He put his hand around Anthony's
30:18
Speaker 1: throat and told him I'm either going to stick you
30:21
Speaker 1: and leave you bleed in, or I'm going to tattoo you. So,
30:26
Speaker 1: giving like these two options, Anthony chows the tattoo. I'm
30:29
Speaker 1: pretty sure anyone would probably choose the tattoo. Jared then
30:33
Speaker 1: forcefully started applying the tattoo with a makeshift tattoo gun.
30:38
Speaker 1: And would you like to know what the tattoo was? Oh?
30:41
Speaker 2: Do tell? Let's hear it well.
30:44
Speaker 1: Spanning basically his entire forehead in capital letters, Jared tattooed
30:49
Speaker 1: Katie and below it, in smaller lettering the word revenge. Yes,
30:55
Speaker 1: so if he didn't already have a freaking red flag
30:57
Speaker 1: above his head, right right.
30:59
Speaker 2: Kidding, Like you said, everyone in this town knows everybody,
31:02
Speaker 2: everyone knows who Katie is. So Katie's Revenge is gonna
31:05
Speaker 2: stick out big.
31:06
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, Like he now has the words Katie's Revenge
31:10
Speaker 1: tattooed across the span of his forehead yeap, giving himself
31:14
Speaker 1: and others a daily reminder of his crime. Like yes,
31:19
Speaker 1: like that is just I don't know.
31:20
Speaker 2: Fucking amazing, this douche canoe is fucking stuck with this
31:23
Speaker 2: stamp in his forehead of how much of a fucking
31:25
Speaker 2: douchebag piece of shit motherfucker he is?
31:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, I literally think it's like the best thing ever.
31:29
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, like I just I just think it just
31:32
Speaker 1: like it just makes my day really okay. So apparently
31:36
Speaker 1: not much makes my day, like.
31:39
Speaker 2: Apparently it takes prison tattoos revenging little girls to make
31:43
Speaker 2: your Yeah yeah, I mean that that is a daymaking
31:47
Speaker 2: things so okay.
31:49
Speaker 1: So unfortunately, though, two prison guards suspected of supplying the
31:53
Speaker 1: leaked photo of Anthony's new ink were fired.
31:57
Speaker 2: That's stupid is that that infamous phoone? Oh that's all
32:00
Speaker 2: ye across.
32:01
Speaker 1: Google because it should never have been released, I guess,
32:04
Speaker 1: and I couldn't find a lot of information on this,
32:06
Speaker 1: but allegedly jared sentence was also increased. Gotcha, Like, come on, judge, like,
32:12
Speaker 1: just let them have it. Let them have this, no kidding,
32:15
Speaker 1: but I mean tattoos are against prison regulations.
32:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, but also raping and killing little girls is against
32:23
Speaker 2: society's regulations.
32:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, but this is interesting. Inmates, like they would often
32:28
Speaker 1: give each other tattoos with like instruments with plastic utensils
32:33
Speaker 1: and needles. Yeah, Like I don't even understand how that
32:36
Speaker 1: works or how they would do it. I mean, I
32:38
Speaker 1: need to watch a video or something on this.
32:40
Speaker 2: If you look at like how tattoos were originally done,
32:43
Speaker 2: it's like came from like tribes and I don't know
32:46
Speaker 2: where exactly, but Ethiopia, Africa wherever they originated from. They
32:50
Speaker 2: start with basically just like a stick and then like
32:52
Speaker 2: a fragment of I don't know, bone or a needle
32:55
Speaker 2: of sort, and they dip it in whatever ank or
32:57
Speaker 2: pigment and the just kind of repeatedly stabbed I been
33:00
Speaker 2: sticking poke the oh.
33:01
Speaker 1: So like there's no gun or anything. They're just repeatedly
33:04
Speaker 1: doing it like with their hand.
33:05
Speaker 2: Most most likely, I doubt they would find any sort
33:08
Speaker 2: of motors in prison to do it. Yeah, but they might,
33:11
Speaker 2: I mean maybe smuggle some shit in electric toothbrush or
33:14
Speaker 2: some shit. I don't know.
33:15
Speaker 1: Well honestly, like, well, I mean we have a glimpse
33:18
Speaker 1: of the photo, will post another one on Instagram. But
33:20
Speaker 1: like he did a good job then yeah, like really.
33:24
Speaker 2: We also better be posting the sketch on Instagram.
33:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, well many, well, yeah, I'll post like a little
33:30
Speaker 1: gallery of things. Okay, Okay, I do want to show
33:33
Speaker 1: you the sketch.
33:33
Speaker 2: Okay, it's crazy if you guys want to see a
33:35
Speaker 2: sketch hit up or Instagram.
33:36
Speaker 1: Wicked and grim as simple as that and grim.
33:39
Speaker 2: Okay, keep going.
33:40
Speaker 1: Okay, So one final stone to turn and turn it
33:44
Speaker 1: in the rabbit hole that I that I went down,
33:46
Speaker 1: you know, is a blog post by none other than
33:50
Speaker 1: Anthony himself. Is so itchy right.
33:53
Speaker 2: Now, that shite get a finger on the inside on
33:57
Speaker 2: an inside job.
33:59
Speaker 1: So the the story. The blog post was titled my Story.
34:03
Speaker 1: It starts off by saying that he's serving a life
34:06
Speaker 1: sentence for a crime he did not commit. Oh it's
34:11
Speaker 1: a pretty long post, so we'll put like the link
34:14
Speaker 1: if you want to read it yourself, but I'll touch
34:17
Speaker 1: on like a few of the points.
34:18
Speaker 2: The link will be in this description for the podcast.
34:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, sorry, I'm like you always do that.
34:23
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't even know where the link is,
34:24
Speaker 1: but it'll be there.
34:26
Speaker 2: I'm the editor and i'm the posters, so.
34:28
Speaker 1: It will be like in the notes of the podcast, right,
34:30
Speaker 1: that's right, they're put Okay, the episode description.
34:33
Speaker 2: That's where all the notes usually are the links and everything,
34:36
Speaker 2: and a link to our website. Yes, a little bit
34:38
Speaker 2: of a self promotion there.
34:40
Speaker 1: There you go. We got a website, we got on Instagram,
34:42
Speaker 1: we got a Facebook, though we're like pretty shitty at
34:44
Speaker 1: Facebook for some reason. I'm trying to fix that. That's you anyway. Okay,
34:50
Speaker 1: So this is kind of where some like discussion here
34:53
Speaker 1: is going to happen.
34:54
Speaker 2: Let's discuss.
34:55
Speaker 1: I got some more stuff to read, but it's like, it's.
34:58
Speaker 2: Interesting, let's hear this blog stuff first, like that I
35:01
Speaker 2: didn't ever know that he came up with this blog.
35:03
Speaker 1: Saying well, and it was in like I think it
35:05
Speaker 1: was in two thousand and eight. So it talked about
35:09
Speaker 1: his surprise when prosecutors claimed his DNA matched when he
35:14
Speaker 1: was like willing to give a sample and everything, So
35:17
Speaker 1: like I mean someone willing to generally, But no, we've
35:20
Speaker 1: had other cases where people willing to do because at
35:22
Speaker 1: that point I think they know they're just they're done.
35:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, And howe how he took the plea because he
35:31
Speaker 3: was in quotations convinced that would be in his best interest.
35:36
Speaker 2: Well, either you die or you go away for life.
35:39
Speaker 2: What are you going to pick?
35:40
Speaker 1: Yeah? But I think technically, like if he had went
35:43
Speaker 1: through the whole trial, if he didn't do it, maybe
35:47
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have had enough evidence in like you know,
35:49
Speaker 1: you know, but he was convinced to take this plea.
35:52
Speaker 1: There was also some sketchiness happening with his lawyer, who
35:55
Speaker 1: he thought had had his best interest but he didn't.
35:58
Speaker 2: Oh shit.
35:59
Speaker 1: To give an example of this, and this is sketch,
36:02
Speaker 1: he said he had his friends and family donate money
36:04
Speaker 1: to pay for retesting of the DNA evidence, but his
36:07
Speaker 1: lawyer was unable to explain what he did with those
36:10
Speaker 1: donations really, so like took the money and like never
36:14
Speaker 1: used it for this purpose.
36:15
Speaker 2: I guess just probably out getting that freaking meth on
36:19
Speaker 2: the night outstaring at shit in his front lawn.
36:23
Speaker 1: So his wife was also on his side, like through
36:27
Speaker 1: most of this until one day she just wasn't and
36:30
Speaker 1: testified against him in court. What Yeah, So that's like
36:34
Speaker 1: a little weird, you know. And he talked a lot
36:37
Speaker 1: about how Charles Hickman, the man who had like originally confessed. Yeah,
36:43
Speaker 1: how the story Charles supplied was like just abruptly discharged
36:47
Speaker 1: with no reason as to why by the police. So
36:52
Speaker 1: and then even after leaving jail, Charles still maintained that
36:56
Speaker 1: he knew he was there and he saw and he
36:59
Speaker 1: knew what happened, and that the police were charging the
37:01
Speaker 1: wrong man.
37:03
Speaker 2: Really, so he's saying police are charging the wrong people Charles,
37:06
Speaker 2: Holy shit?
37:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean just wait where am I here?
37:11
Speaker 1: I'm getting.
37:13
Speaker 2: Getting your fuffled.
37:17
Speaker 1: How credible is Charles? You know?
37:20
Speaker 2: How credible is anyone though? Too? How credible is is Anthony?
37:24
Speaker 2: How credible is yeah? The entire system?
37:27
Speaker 1: So, like this thing, I read it and I was like,
37:28
Speaker 1: holy shit, Like he had some freaking convincing arguments in there,
37:32
Speaker 1: and I was just like, oh my gosh, like do
37:34
Speaker 1: they not do they not have the wrong do they
37:36
Speaker 1: have the wrong person? But then like I was like,
37:40
Speaker 1: he's been in jail for a while, he's had like
37:42
Speaker 1: a lot of time to think, can you really argue
37:45
Speaker 1: with DNA?
37:47
Speaker 2: Well, his DNA was there.
37:49
Speaker 1: But then he even said like he was like maybe
37:52
Speaker 1: they took the cigarette from my truck when they searched it.
37:56
Speaker 1: But then his DNA was also on the body and
37:58
Speaker 1: stuff right and in in the the string that was
38:03
Speaker 1: used to tie Katie's wrists. Can you plant that kind
38:08
Speaker 1: of shit?
38:08
Speaker 2: I'm sure you can, because I mean, all it really
38:11
Speaker 2: takes maybe that cigarette, but they just rubbed shit everywhere.
38:14
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know if there is someone
38:17
Speaker 2: trying to plant evidence. I'm sure there's a way to
38:20
Speaker 2: get his DNA over.
38:23
Speaker 1: The ball like semen too, though, Yeah, that's.
38:28
Speaker 2: Was there, CNA, CNA, DNA, semen DNA there was, Yeah,
38:34
Speaker 2: it was okay, and then explain the red fibers.
38:36
Speaker 1: Then exactly so I don't know.
38:40
Speaker 2: The description of his truck.
38:41
Speaker 1: I was literally like reading this and I was like
38:43
Speaker 1: I was feeling almost bad, and I was like, holy shit,
38:46
Speaker 1: like he just got this like tattoo on his forehead
38:49
Speaker 1: and like what I think's not the right person. But
38:52
Speaker 1: then and I forgot to mention this actually the year
38:57
Speaker 1: prior he had appealed, okay, saying that he was that
39:04
Speaker 1: he committed the crime and that he was under the
39:07
Speaker 1: influence of extreme mental or emotional disturbance. He testified that
39:13
Speaker 1: his father had died six months before the crime after
39:16
Speaker 1: a long boat with cancer, and that he was basically
39:20
Speaker 1: like taking care of his father and this had like
39:24
Speaker 1: impacted his mental and emotional state. But he mentioned that
39:27
Speaker 1: he said he did it. So it's like the year
39:30
Speaker 1: prior he freaking did it and he was under all
39:33
Speaker 1: this dire duress or whatever because his dad died of
39:36
Speaker 1: cancer and he had to watch that, which is shit
39:38
Speaker 1: to watch. And then the next year he's like putting
39:41
Speaker 1: on a blog post saying that he's innocent.
39:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, he just lost all credibility in my mind.
39:46
Speaker 1: I know, because so when I saw that that in
39:48
Speaker 1: that he appealed the previous year and had said that
39:51
Speaker 1: he committed and he had taken the polea. So it's
39:53
Speaker 1: like he's all over the place.
39:55
Speaker 2: There are people who have been wrongfully imprisoned for whatever crime,
39:59
Speaker 2: oh absolutely, And there are people who have been who
40:03
Speaker 2: take the plea because their lawyer convinces them whatever the situation,
40:07
Speaker 2: they take that plea even though they're innocent because it
40:09
Speaker 2: seems like that's the right choice.
40:11
Speaker 1: Well, and it could be a financial thing too, potentially, right, Yeah,
40:14
Speaker 1: it could have been, like I mean, it's cost a
40:16
Speaker 1: lot of money to like be on trial and stuff.
40:19
Speaker 2: So just for Devil's advocate sake, here, just say he
40:24
Speaker 2: was one of those people who is innocent and took
40:27
Speaker 2: the plea because of whatever X reasoning. So now he
40:31
Speaker 2: is in prison and he is innocent. He's gonna lose
40:36
Speaker 2: credibility by saying, you know, I did do it, but
40:39
Speaker 2: here's all my shit that why I did it. And
40:42
Speaker 2: then the next year, Yeah, that didn't work. So I'm
40:44
Speaker 2: just gonna just confess. No, you're gonna confess and say
40:46
Speaker 2: I'm innocent first exactly. That doesn't go through. You're going
40:51
Speaker 2: to maybe say, okay, sure I did it, but I
40:54
Speaker 2: like you're going to start grasping there.
40:56
Speaker 1: Well, his appeal, like he probably was trying to get
41:00
Speaker 1: some sort of because you can get maybe more lenient
41:02
Speaker 1: sentence if like you had some sort of mental illness
41:07
Speaker 1: or something that.
41:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're innocent, why are you gonna grasp for
41:10
Speaker 2: a more lenient sentence? Wouldn't you grasp for I'm innocent.
41:14
Speaker 2: I don't deserve this. I should be free. Yeah, that
41:18
Speaker 2: doesn't make sense. If they don't believe that you're innocent,
41:21
Speaker 2: if you can't get free, then you're going to grasp
41:24
Speaker 2: for the leniency and then you're gonna plead for the insanity.
41:28
Speaker 2: That's what an innocent person would do in my mind.
41:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he literally I don't know. I had read
41:35
Speaker 1: his story his blog posts first and then and then
41:38
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, man, like I feel bad for him,
41:40
Speaker 1: Like I think that they might have stored up. And
41:42
Speaker 1: then I came across the appeal that he had done
41:45
Speaker 1: the previous year and not like no, you can't have that,
41:48
Speaker 1: you can't have this DNA, you can't have like the
41:50
Speaker 1: red fibers, the matching truck. Like there's there's a lot,
41:53
Speaker 1: but it it does seem weird that this other man
41:57
Speaker 1: had confessed and said he knows. It almost makes you
42:00
Speaker 1: think that there's more to the story that's like drug
42:02
Speaker 1: related and and they're almost connected or I don't.
42:05
Speaker 2: Know, maybe they are connected maybe.
42:11
Speaker 1: But that the police said that that Anthony and Charles
42:15
Speaker 1: were not oh really, yeah, that was something that they had.
42:18
Speaker 2: Found well, shit, I guess the guy's just a fucking
42:20
Speaker 2: tweaker and Anthony's a fucking rapist, murderer, piece of shit, douchebags. Coum,
42:26
Speaker 2: what'd you say?
42:29
Speaker 1: You? Oh? What did I say?
42:30
Speaker 2: Nasty mother? No, motherfucking something, piece of shit, motherfucker. I
42:35
Speaker 2: don't know.
42:36
Speaker 1: I don't even know, but I mean I all in
42:39
Speaker 1: all honesty, just like poor Katie, like she was a
42:43
Speaker 1: little girl that had her whole life ahead of her.
42:46
Speaker 1: And whether it be Anthony, which I want to, I
42:50
Speaker 1: think it's Anthony that's the one serving his sentence. He
42:55
Speaker 1: took that, he took that, and it's just heartbreaking.
42:59
Speaker 2: And he's now go to fucking banner across his for it. Yes,
43:02
Speaker 2: I really hope that he cannot get that removed.
43:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of. There was one report that had
43:08
Speaker 1: said some medical person offered to like remove it, fuck them,
43:12
Speaker 1: But I really don't think that it should be removed,
43:16
Speaker 1: Like why would it? Why? Like just this is just
43:18
Speaker 1: like karma, Like just let karma play out here. Yeah,
43:21
Speaker 1: can we please have that moment? So anyway, that's the story. Dang, Yeah,
43:29
Speaker 1: there's a lot more to it than I think you
43:30
Speaker 1: probably originally.
43:31
Speaker 2: Thought it Oh yeah, because I've never researched a story.
43:34
Speaker 2: I've never listened to a podcast. Nothing. I just kind
43:37
Speaker 2: of few articles, like short Facebook articles that have read
43:39
Speaker 2: in the past. That's it. So I knew the basics.
43:44
Speaker 2: I thought it was an uncle. Clearly was a cousin.
43:47
Speaker 2: I was close.
43:48
Speaker 1: That's close ish an uncle's.
43:50
Speaker 2: Child would be a cousin. So there you go. I
43:54
Speaker 2: was in the same family.
43:56
Speaker 1: There you go. Anyway, thanks so much for listening.
44:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, we appreciate you guys being here. Make sure you
44:02
Speaker 2: check out the Instagram. Yes, the website, the Facebook, the
44:07
Speaker 2: whatever else we got. Do we have anything else?
44:09
Speaker 1: I think that's it.
44:10
Speaker 2: We should get a tweeter, tweeter a Twitter. We should
44:14
Speaker 2: get a Twitter, and then we cannot use that.
44:17
Speaker 1: I actually vote against that. I have never really used Twitter.
44:20
Speaker 1: I don't even know where.
44:21
Speaker 2: I'm not a Twitter person either. Yeah, so, but check
44:23
Speaker 2: them all out. Our website links down below, and on
44:27
Speaker 2: desktop we have links to our social media. I really
44:29
Speaker 2: got to get that change so it goes onto like
44:31
Speaker 2: mobile as well for the social media links.
44:34
Speaker 1: But until I get that all set up, make sure
44:37
Speaker 1: you guys do Wicked Friends