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How Higher Ed Is Reinventing Its Mission for Real-World Impact · Hart & Hustle Podcast

• Efrain: Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast. Today we got Miss Andrea's in the building. Andrea, Andrea, what is it? Andrea, there we go. How you doing, Miss Andrea? Where are you located today? I'd love to know what we're always virtually visiting. Andrea Dine: Andrea Absolutely, we're in Waltham, Massachusetts, which is just west of Boston. Efrain: Alright, and I think I told you that I was originally from Lawrence, spent some time in Lawrence. A little bit of time, I don't remember. ⁓ and then I stayed some time in Boston and I haven't visited Boston again till Mm, what, four or five years ago. And ⁓ I remember telling my wife we're going to Boston, she's like, What the heck is in Boston? Today's day it is her favorite vacation. ⁓ we got some good lobster rolls, okay, at the seaport. Yeah, yeah. What is your favorite dish in Boston? Someone goes to Boston, where do they gotta go? Andrea Dine: Ha. Mm. All right, you g right? ⁓ my goodness. I mean I'm I'm local, so I'm here in Waltham. My favorite restaurant in Waltham is called Gestazzos and it's a c fabulous Cuban restaurant right on Moody Street, which its nickname is Eat Street. So there's no matter what kind of food you like, you have good options. Efrain: Okay. Would you say that ⁓ you're a foodie? ⁓ wha what is your favorite type of food? Andrea Dine: I am. I am. I mean I I could ⁓ that's like your favorite child. I could never narrow down. I I was recently in Alabama for ⁓ my nephew's wedding and I literally bought fresh picked peaches back in my carry on. So I'm very flexible. Efrain: Ha ha ha. Yeah. ⁓ my god. I tell you my friend brought me back a ⁓ it was like a peach lemonade. ⁓ my god, it was so good. Yeah, he came from Georgia and he's like, You gotta try this. It's so fresh. ⁓ No, it's ⁓ super exciting. So let let us know what organization are you representing today? What is a role that you ⁓ also play? Andrea Dine: Mm. Of course. So I'm speaking on behalf of myself. My role is ⁓ assist ⁓ I'm the vice president of student affairs at Brandeis University. ⁓ and my field is student affairs. And so student affairs is ⁓ a division of thirteen departments on campus. It's as diverse as athletics to spiritual life. We cover the gamut of movement to spirituality to leadership skills in student activities and community service, as well as all the health and wellness functions, counseling, ⁓ physical health, ⁓ and ⁓ health education. So we really are a small but mighty division. Efrain: I love it. What get you into a role like this? Andrea Dine: ⁓ my goodness, it's really just a path. So my history history in the field, ⁓ though I've worked in probably six or seven different departments, a bulk of my field work in the field has been in career services. ⁓ and so really we were focusing on the development of students, how do they take what they have done and what skills they have and really apply it to what might be a possibility for them in the future, ⁓ career-wise, ⁓ whether they initially realize it or not. Efrain: Mm-hmm. I love it. And did you ever think that this is where you're going to be all these years later? Andrea Dine: I I actually my husband teases me. ⁓ I actually don't have it on camera, but I keep a a little minion. ⁓ my husband's always teased me that's been my greatest desire is to have minions. ⁓ so I actually have always been very interested in student affairs and have considered myself a student affairs professional, even though my specialty was career services. ⁓ so this in some ways has always been the goal that I've was kind of like if I can get experience in all these different areas, I can be a better leader because I will have a more granular understanding of the scope. The work. Efrain: D do you think there's a stigma going around on colleges and universities that ⁓ maybe we wanna kind of debunk today? Andrea Dine: Goodness. ⁓ I don't know. There's so many ⁓ pieces out there. I think there's a ⁓ a healthy questioning ⁓ by in the national arena about ⁓ higher education and what is its value and the sort of return on investment. ⁓ I'd love to debunk the question the not the question itself, I think it's a healthy question, but I think the answer is clearly yes. Any metric you look at, life happiness, income. Career path, career paths options, or changing careers as we all do. I think the clear answer to the question of is higher education worth it is yes. But I think the questioning is good in that it really helps us re-evaluate things we maybe took for granted and look at them in a new light and allow us to translate that in a new light with the new questions. And Ephraim, we've lost your mic. Efrain: Well, we did lose my mic. I don't know how I got muted, but that is exactly technical difficulties. ⁓ use the era maybe. I wasn't even asking a question. I was just saying that I'm probably like most Americans where I actually have some ⁓ classes left. I got two classes left. And ⁓ you know, it it's one of those things of I didn't realize the value in it as I started talking to more people in higher ed of Andrea Dine: Do that. Fair. Go ahead. Back up your question, we'll try again. Efrain: This is not just a place where you are going to get an education, but you're really going to learn. It's going to be so diverse. It's going to be a a place where ⁓ you could be yourself, that you can fail and and it it'll be okay, right? Instead of going to a nine to five corporate job where you fail, you're probably out the door. ⁓ that there's some there's some room for you to really spread your wings and find out what is your path, you know. ⁓ I think that's what people are missing sometimes. It is an investment. But there's a huge ROI when you actually gotta you gotta put in the work though, right? You gotta sit here and and ⁓ go to the classes, find out what you like, find out what you don't like. So do you feel that people miss that part of college, university because they think it's just too expensive and that it's a it it's debt? Andrea Dine: Yeah, I mean I I ⁓ I also want to say that no matter your path, whether you go to university or not, the goals and the way you learn is similar in that ⁓ sometimes so the outcome to your point of losing a job is Horsher. ⁓ there is ⁓ you will make mistakes and you will learn as you go. The really important thing about higher education is we're designed for that. Efrain: Mm-hmm. Andrea Dine: And we are not unlike scientific research. You try many things and they don't work, which is informative because then you figure out what does work. College is set up to help you do that exploration without the same kinds of risk, ⁓ like worrying about ⁓ having a salary, ⁓ a job that you could lose because you've made a mistake. We're made we're made for mistakes. That piece of exploration, the piece of figuring things out. We're a relatively medium-sized campus. We have over 200 student clubs. So it doesn't matter whether you want to do gaming, whether you want to be in the T club, that's a new one this year, or you want to do skydiving, you will learn something about yourself and then you have the opportunity for a leadership role in whatever group or groups you choose. That is an opportunity to be an entrepreneur, to s test out your leadership skills. There's leadership training available to you through student affairs. So that piece of Efrain: Wow. Andrea Dine: of having someone walk with you to learn all of those pieces is not generally a thing that you find in sort of the world of work. Efrain: Mm-hmm. I love it. And and with so many years of you doing this, has communication changed? And I mean communication in a sense of who we're communicating to? Because I'm hearing that parents are more involved than ever. ⁓ so it's not like you're just per you communicating to a child, you're also communicating to that parent that is very involved. Is that what you're seeing nowadays? And how do you even kind of change with those times? Andrea Dine: We ⁓ for sure, well, I mean, so I laughed when you first asked about communication. I was like, we're in a podcast, right? That did not exist. When I started, I don't want to give up too much away with my gray hair and ⁓ technology talk, but the internet when I was in high school was a governmental agency thing, right? There was no podcast email. We didn't have desks on computers on our desks. My first job I did not have my computer desk. So I brought my computer from home because I was like, I cannot function without a computer. I need my word processor, et cetera. ⁓ so that piece is revolutionary in the work over time of the way in which one communicates. But you're absolutely correct. Audience is key and we do communicate more and more to parents. For example, our online parent orientation for fall started two weeks ago. Efrain: That is crazy. Andrea Dine: And we are having 150 plus parents attend our online orientation live and the rest watching the recording and then messaging in questions for us that will answer their specific questions. But I couldn't have imagined my I I often ⁓ joke and tell a story at ⁓ orientation, welcoming parents, that I asked my parents for all those years ago when they dropped me off at college, like what was that like for them? Because I was trying to get in a parent mindset. And they my mother was like Efrain: Wow. Mm-hmm. Andrea Dine: ⁓ you mean when we drop we like helped you with all the things and we drive you all the way to UMass and we draw and unpack you know, we're there and then you're like, Okay, you can go now and I was like Efrain: ⁓ huh. Andrea Dine: ⁓ so I do two things with parents. I think orienting parents and communicating with them is critically important in a way that was not the case. If I spoke to my parents once a week, that was a pretty normal cadence. Students are now texting or messaging all the time with their families and their parents. So that is vastly different and whatever their family or support network looks like, they're they're with them almost all the time in a new way. ⁓ they don't always tell them everything, of course, ⁓ but they're certainly engaged in that way. And and Efrain: Of course. Andrea Dine: And the families are also interested in more detailed ways. It's not sort of a drop and go kind of situation. And they'll call, they'll have questions. On my team is a parent liaison, so they always have a point person that can also serve sort of as an ombuds to help them find something they need that they're looking for if it's a very specific question about a very specific area. They don't have to do that exploration alone and call 10 different offices. They have one person to call, they can have that conversation. And we will also coach them that they're child is an adult or becoming adult, but if they may they might be 18, they might be a little under 18 when they start. And That's also part of our role is to teach adulting to a certain extent. And so we coach parents how to empower their students to solve problems, address issues, et cetera. So that the and we pull the student into the conversation. Well, it seems like you're having a trouble with your roommate. Let's pull in some resources for you to help you through that. That piece, though the parent may come to us with the issue, we're really looking to engage directly with the student. Efrain: Mm-hmm. I love it. And then when you say communication over text message, are are you communicating over text message? 'Cause that's where meeting the children where they're at? Andrea Dine: Mm. Adopter. Many schools are doing that. I have not adopted that. I find it a little much. ⁓ at this point, I was like, whoo, and do I want my text number out there? I don't know. The that seems like much to me. We generally communicate by email. Obviously, we have resources for folks online, we have webinars online and do live programming. So we engage predominantly in that way. ⁓ we do with students, particularly for emergencies, absolutely text them because it is that immediate need to get them emergency information. That will do by text. The rest is ⁓ still. relatively what would be a little Luddite now about ⁓ email and other messaging. And Instagram probably is one of the more popular channels. Efrain: Got it. Love it. And you said medium sized school. What is a medium sized school? So how many kids graduated this ⁓ past spring? Andrea Dine: Ye yeah. Well we had a big class graduate last year. So we had ⁓ walking at graduation, not everyone chooses to walk. We probably had about nine hundred, a little over nine hundred, maybe nine twenty, nine thirty folks walk at commencement. So it was nine fifty, nine sixty was sort of the overall class. ⁓ for graduate students we have about Efrain: Okay. Wow. Andrea Dine: two hundred and fifty to three hundred graduate students at any one time. We are a research one university, which means ⁓ we offer a great variety and graduate a great variety of PhDs. So we're really full gamut. Efrain: Love it. And and where are you on your on the the level of s certification? Like are you at a bachelor's, or are you at a masters? Andrea Dine: Yeah, I ⁓ I have ⁓ a lot of school of hard knocks, but my ⁓ s my degree is a master's of ⁓ in higher education in student affairs. Efrain: Wow, so you you went all in, huh? Andrea Dine: ⁓ no, my colleagues I my colleagues tease me, I'm the VP, but my colleagues that my assistant vice presidents both hold doctorates. So I am out I am modestly degreed for my field. Efrain: ⁓ I'm barely at their level. No, I'm just joking. ⁓ no that that's ⁓ so cool. Wha what makes you guys special? When a student comes in and they're looking out of so many universities, what's the thing that makes you guys special? Andrea Dine: Yeah, I mean we're actually really in this very interesting moment of time where the entire university is transforming itself in substantial ways. ⁓ we're really miss mission driven and shifting to the sort of philosophical model beyond our traditional philosophies that we maintain, such as ⁓ our motto is truth unto its innermost parts. So we're very ⁓ research oriented and truth and justice, social justice oriented. But what we're reorienting now is ⁓ our current Efrain: Mm-hmm. Andrea Dine: President Arthur Levine has said we've done a great job on the ⁓ Academy, the classroom, the library, the research, etc. What we're reorienting to is have greater balance to what he would call the street. So the ⁓ the ⁓ university ⁓ philosophy that we're talking about is ⁓ from the classroom to the street. That piece of what are you learning and what does it mean, and how do you apply it in the real world and what does that look like? So that is a reorg of all of our undergraduate and ⁓ graduate schools under one university instead of having ⁓ completely separate. Efrain: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Andrea Dine: Separate colleges. They're now all together and they are all built to have both the history, academic, research, like deep knowledge in a particular field, whatever major student might choose, as well as the practical application. So it's business and economics and science and engineering. It has those bridges built in now to the curriculum and the co curriculum. So student affairs where I live is the co curricular side. The ⁓ Efrain: Yep. Andrea Dine: internships on campus, student employment, club leadership, athletics, tremendous leadership skills developed in athletics. And so we are ⁓ partners in this, both the academy and the co-curricular side of the house, of really doing the sort of more balanced, well rounded component of Both the deep kind of learning, like you want people that can think. You want people that can research things and solve problems because the world today is not the same as the world tomorrow. You want people to be nimble in that way, and you want to be able to take that nimbleness and that intake of information of different things and then apply it in a way that is meaningful to whatever world of work you choose. Efrain: Are you guys doing any AI ⁓ courses? Andrea Dine: We are, we're actually embedding some of the AI and technology learning into our coursework. ⁓ That is a a non-traditional thing for a relatively liberal arts institution to do. And so we're we're in our growing pains for that right now. But it's very exciting of what is inbounds and what is out of bounds. What is it that you want someone to learn and be able to do themselves? And then what are the professional tools you can use for AI to enhance that or make things more ⁓ efficient as you're going through your workday? Efrain: Okay. What is your thoughts on AI? I mean, you you just mentioned you've been in this space for a long time. AI probably disrupted it, ⁓ just the field, I I would say probably in good ways and still trying to figure out what are the bad ways. What is your thoughts on AI? Andrea Dine: Yeah, I mean so for me this is not the first revolution, right? I j I mentioned we didn't have I didn't have a computer on my desktop the first job I took. So ⁓ I'm in an unusual ⁓ position of being an Xer that ⁓ they're like another like we didn't have smartphones, we didn't have cell phones, right? So we've been disrupted before. So we it we're very w it's very interesting we're having like these generational conversations on campus about it. And I really see not unlike these other transformations and revolutions, I really s see AI as a tool. And it and just ⁓ You know, you're talking about a pair of scissors. A pair of scissors could be used for good or ill. A technology we can use for good or ill. And then what are the philosophical ethical boundaries we put or applications that we put as boundaries on the use of AI think important? I still want folks to be able to think logically. I want my graduates to be able to write well all by themselves. Now, might they use really effectively a An AI tool that will help with spelling and grammar, that will help, like they writ wrote something that's 10 pages and I need a paragraph. Can you do that on AI more efficiently? Of course you can. Should you check it as well? Because it does hallucinate. I've seen some very creative things. ⁓ Yes, of course you should check it, but you should have the ability the skills to do that. So I really think like writing as an example is a fundamental skill that everyone should develop, as is research, because you will have to learn things in the future. So if you give away your skill or you don't Efrain: Yep. Andrea Dine: develop your skill and muscles in research, you will struggle to learn whatever the next thing is you need to know. Now, if it's an area you're working on and you want to aggregate research, or you have a huge bunch of information you want to Efrain: Yeah. Andrea Dine: Put down into a graphic or chart, sure. AI is a great tool to do that. ⁓ Socially, if you want to do a fun meme for yourself or do a graphic design piece, or if you want to make your work more efficient. I mean, we're launching this fall a new Instagram channel for the division. And are we gonna use AI to do some of that graphic generation? We absolutely are, because we literally have thousands of programs and events that we all want to organize and put out in an organized fashion to support students and their families. However Efrain: I love it. Andrea Dine: I no one wants to sit and create an Instagram graphic for hundreds and hundreds of programs. I want to code AI to be able to color code a theme, use appropriate photos, do all the things I wanted to do and generate a thousand graphics in an hour or two rather than what would have taken staff time. We might not have launched the channel because the workload to generate thousand graphics would have been months. And we don't have months, and the world is Efrain: Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Andrea Dine: At a faster pace, right? So that piece, you can give rich, meaningful pieces. Coding AI is a tremendous skill. So I spoke about not having computers. Like I remember when BASIC was a language, which was BASIC as its name, right? But that piece of understanding how do you give clear instructions so that the work is yours and the thought and the strategy is yours. You can get help from AI, you it can do functions for you. Like I think it will be a very powerful tool. I think what we will struggle with in the meantime. is what are you learning and what is your genuine work ⁓ and your own sort of intellectual property. I think our current students are very AI skeptics, way more than their parents even. They are like, yeah, no, I don't trust that AI thing aga at all. Now, that doesn't mean when they're, you know, it's Efrain: At home and yeah. Andrea Dine: Eleven fifty nine and fifty nine seconds and their d assignment is due at midnight, they're not jumping on AI. They probably are. But that piece of ⁓ the real questions are is the information you're seeing true and real? I think those will be the more difficult areas we struggle with in AI because you can do voice generation and graphic generation and is something real and the idea of truth or not, which is ⁓ motto, truth in its innermost parts the motto of the university. I think truth and truth telling ⁓ will be something that because I ⁓ Efrain: Yeah. Andrea Dine: AI has such capabilities that we'll really struggle our way through. I think we can do it. But just like the adoption of, you know, people said the same thing about word processing and websites, right? So we'll get through it, but I think we have to do so thoughtfully, train our students how to use practical tools so they are ready to use AI in the workforce in really helpful ways while while maintaining their own intellectual property and integrity. Efrain: I love it. It seems like you're really using AI. Just a little bit. Andrea Dine: ⁓ I think more than some of my peers. ⁓ but I I have to say I am a bit of a skeptic itself. I I'm often a late adopter, like I watch it grow up a little and see where it goes and I see how it might be useful. I am eager to learn new things. I have done some ⁓ really metadata crunching ⁓ with it to get some early results and then sort of analyzing it and ask other questions. But just like the use of a software program, you do have to learn the ins and outs and you have to make it your own. Efrain: That's so good. Yeah. I'm glad that you're not against it and you're exploring it because I think that there is a lot of opportunity. I was I was actually at the ⁓ doctor's yesterday and how they're using AI through transcribe, right? So that you're now more having that conversation, that one on one with your doctor. I think there's something special in that because two years ago I went to the doctor and the doctor was just looking at the screen the whole time. You know, and then you know, I'm I'm like literally trying to have this small talk with her and she's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, just typing away. And but I mean Rightfully so, right? Like they they got a job to do. ⁓ and it's not their fault. But now with something like technology like this, that the experience becomes a little different. I think the experience overall in different ⁓ places become different because of AI when done right. So I love that you're just at least exploring it because I think it also helps with data and how to read data how ⁓ faster than what we could read data, right? But you give me a graph, I'm looking at like But also I just wanna jump into these When you keep talking about these old computers, you remember the computers that were colourful, the the Macs that they had all different colors and the like usually Andrea Dine: I do. I mean I remember the Trash eighty, which the there wasn't a disc or hard drive, you used a cassette tape. So yes. Yes. The big five and a quarter inch I think they were. Efrain: ⁓ my god. I was gonna tell you I actually had a a floppy disk somewhere in this office, but ⁓ yeah. Yeah, I have this floppy disk probably was since I was in elementary. Don't ask me why, okay? It's like Loki a hoarder, okay? Andrea Dine: Yes, yeah. There, a little bit too. My when I went to college and I was an English major, I needed a WordPress or so like you can't believe, and ⁓ I had a dictionary that would do spell check for me. It took forever. Now it's sort of instantaneous, but it took forever because the floppy discs, those discs you're talking about, only could hold one disk had the software, one disc hit the first half of the alphabet of the ⁓ the dictionary, the second one had the second half of the dictionary. And that's all the data can hold. Efrain: ⁓ my god. All I remember is probably putting a PowerPoint on there. I would love to see what this PowerPoint looks like when I was elementary. How funny. ⁓ what are some of the leadership skills that you live by that has helped you get to where you're at today? Andrea Dine: Yes. Yeah. I I I think there's a piece about ⁓ being truly genuine in your work and caring about your work and doing what you need to do and learning what you need to learn. And so no work ⁓ we w we were joking earlier, like, all right, well, there's this new AI thing. So clearly I need to learn it because I need to be able to lead and I need to be able to tell people w what makes sense and how could they use it ethically and what are the boundaries for that. So I think that piece of Efrain: Yeah. Andrea Dine: That history of being a really great listener. Like you have to learn. When I stepped, my previous role here was ⁓ assistant vice president of health and wellness. So, and I joined that job weeks, maybe two months before COVID hit. And I was overseeing the health center. We were making recommendations about COVID protocols for campus weeks later, the counseling center, areas I hadn't worked in, so I and career services, which I had. And so that piece of like, okay, I am gonna. Efrain: ⁓ my god. Yeah. Andrea Dine: roll up my sleeves because the work is important. There's a piece of leadership that is role modeling for your team, what your expectations are as a culture of the work. I mean I am just, ⁓ you know, it's both strategy as well as hiring the right people. But I have a team that's like, of course, what do you need? What are we doing next? Okay, how do we figure that out? The idea that change, because it is the only constant is change, they're like, okay, what's next? And so for other parts of the institution where change is like Less frequent, they're like, ⁓ no, like you need a change manager and that sort of thing. And I was like, no, no, no, change is normal. And that I think teaching folks that is also a piece of being a good leader and providing clear vision, vision, mission, and goals. That was something that wasn't in place before I was vice president of the division. And so Efrain: Yeah. Andrea Dine: Particularly in a team with as I've mentioned, such different areas. So I could have an athletic trainer and I could have ⁓ Imam and I could have ⁓ I don't know career counselor and a coach all at the same table. And bringing together that common vision, values, goal, student centered, like we are here to serve our students and help both support and challenge them in ways to make them better people and and better leaders themselves in the future is an empowerment thing that I think is truly at the heart of leadership. So there are many things one can talk about leadership, but I think that piece of like if our role is to empower students both to learn and about themselves and their possibilities as well as empower them to actually pursue them. If we're fostering curiosity, we're building sensing sense of belonging, that piece of, you know, a student come may come to college, they may be first generation, they have never been on a college campus before, their families may have never been on a college campus before, they have not been prepped in a way of student that may have family that have graduated before. And so that piece of helping them adjust to the landscape, knowing where to go, how to find things, you do that for your students as a leader, but you also do that for your team as a leader, so that they can see. Efrain: Yeah. Andrea Dine: Your clear expectations clear support in professional development. I mean I we I had a staff member we are doing far more ⁓ asynchronous online learning now in education and so I have a staff member that loves doing that and loves learning that technology. So I sent her to a major train like a month training on that skill. Now sh her role is both to learn that skill so she's better at it and she does quite a bit of that work, but it's also to teach the rest of the division. So there is that empowerment piece for ourselves as as leaders, for our teams as well as Efrain: Yeah. It's I love that you just ⁓ pouring into that individual. 'Cause a lot of times we put somebody in a role but we don't really set them up for that role. And for you to sit here and say, hey, go take this, learn from it, but also for you to come back to pour into everybody else, I think it's a huge key. That empowerment ⁓ is goes to really show your leadership. I always say ⁓ act I asked you I had this question where you were saying that, is is Alito born or is Or does is someone molded into a leader by the things that are being poured into them throughout life? How do you think a leader comes to life? Andrea Dine: I th I'll expand on that. I think it is ⁓ I don't think leaders are born. ⁓ I don't think it's a natural thing that all someone is born a leader. I think that There is both a personal evolution. So I think there's individual choices one makes and risk one takes to learn the skills to be a leader. And there is also the support structure, whether that's, you know, early in early childhood all the way through a higher education and beyond and in a job, that there are those that are supportive of you and your professional development. So I think there's a both and there. The Efrain: Mm-hmm. Andrea Dine: Staff member that I'm looking at, you know, you have hustle in your name, like the the staff member that's in it, because they're like, ⁓ I want to do this thing. I but I I don't either have or understand how to use the tools that will get me there. So I'm gonna hustle, I'm gonna figure out what that is and pursue it. That is a great employee, and that is who you want to pour that support into to mold them to be a leader. But I think that really anyone can be a leader, ⁓ though it does involve like some folks are. Very I I get it. It's a risk to try something new. ⁓ one of the things that's nice on a college campus with student leadership and student clubs and organizations is in the scheme of things, it's a low-risk leadership opportunity. But you learn how to be organized, how to provide structure, how to lead a meeting, how to talk to people, how to delegate. Lots of folks are not good, but I'll do it all myself so I have total control. Like part of being a leader is to let that go, is to hire the best people and let them do their best work. Efrain: Yeah. Andrea Dine: Work and support them in that. So that is something you can learn in a club environment or an athletic environment where you're a senior leader on the team that you're playing on. So I think there's lots of in I think higher ed is sort of built to create those environments and opportunities for folks, but the individual has to say yes. They have to say yes to a club that already exists or they want to start something or they want to join a team. And it could be a varsity sport, it could be a club sport, it could be intramural, it doesn't matter. It it's like taking the risk and having ⁓ sort of support and confidence to like, all right, I'm I'm gonna give that a try. And It might work or it might not work out. It's fine. You learn from it and you move forward. It is important, as important to know, both as a leader and if you're thinking about a career development setting, to know what you like to do and you're good at, and they're not necessarily the same thing. You could like you'd be good at something and not like it. ⁓ and what you don't like and what you're not good at. Now, there are moments of time that you're gonna need some build build some skill maybe in the things that you're not good at because it may be required of you. But that piece of the exploration exploration and that sort of ⁓ entrepreneurial spirit of like learning something or just Efrain: Yeah. Andrea Dine: I you know, an entrepreneur is not built without risk. It is inherently risky. And one doesn't need to become an entrepreneur as a career. ⁓ but every work place and everyone that's successful in the role is on t has characteristics of an entrepreneur. Efrain: Yes, hundred percent. I ⁓ it is Talking about being entrepreneur is very risky. Listen, I've been down that road ⁓ really early in and I would say it there is something rewarding on the other side. ⁓ kind of to what you mentioned, right? Getting uncomfortable. Someone said this to me on a podcast, but it's like we live in this comfort zone here, and there's so much here when you get uncomfortable, right? The world is so huge when you just get uncomfortable. And a lot of times it's so hard to get uncomfortable when change has happened, right? People tend to leave because they don't want to be a part of that. ⁓ they they fight that change, but it's sometimes Andrea Dine: It is Efrain: Good change, but it goes back to that leader. How is that leader also driving this change? Or is it are they making them a part of the change, right? Or are they just changing? So many aspects of that. But ⁓ we have to stop wrapping up. I mean, we're having a good conversation, but I do want to talk, I want you to talk to your colleagues because we're in a space right now in higher ed, and you could probably second to ⁓ second this is that retention cliff, when we talk about ⁓ government funding cuts, like very some tough times, but People sometimes may forget their whys. They might forget why they do it. Can you just kind of pour into those people and letting them know that you mentioned COVID. If we got through covet I think we can get through a lot of things. So wha what is that word of wisdom to keep people going? Andrea Dine: That's true. Yeah, I think if I think of my colleagues, I mean we're and and fellow educators in the broadest of senses. We we are both privileged and challenged to engage with students in their formative years, all the way again the entire age range of theirs their development and their and an important time of their lives. Though as an educator doing your best work, you don't often know the end of your student's story. But Each and every one of us plays a critical important role in becoming part of their story and their journey, whether we may know what that outcome will be. So the the piece of in higher ed we often ⁓ have a split. There is the curricular, the of course the academic and the faculty, and then the co curricular side. And they are both incredibly important, and the work is incredibly important. And so, even though queer counselor, like you'd work with someone first. for four years and then they graduate and you're like, I don't I don't know the end of that story. Like, did they get the job? They ⁓ maybe they get back to you, maybe they don't, you don't know. But you have played a critical role in their lives, ⁓ in them becoming who they wish to be. And so that in and of itself is ⁓ critically valuable. Efrain: Ha ha ha. Someone mentioned this to me. It was another leader at Higher Ed and he says, Ephraim, we're just fertilizing the future. And I ⁓ y we we could talk about garden, we don't probably have time on another podcasting. I was gonna bring it up, but I I love that we were just talking about higher ed. but yeah, I I think Andrea Dine: Yes, I call it gardening sometimes. ⁓ That's great. Efrain: Fertilize in the future, I ran with that because that's exactly what it is. And sometimes you don't know, right? You're going to fertilize, you're going to plant, you're going to take care of it. And sometimes you it's just it's going to take some time for that to blossom. It's going to take years for it to really start to see the hard work pay off. And you may not see it as the person that was pouring into that individual. But knowing that it's not about us, right? It especially when you higher ed is not. It's about those individuals that are coming to school for the first time, that are so lost, that that didn't know. This was possible and now they're in it, right? They from you talked about the comfortable to getting uncomfortable. Some of these kids are first gen students that doesn't know what this looks like, that doesn't have a mom or dad or brother or sister to really tell them that path. ⁓ so I I really appreciate the conversation that we've had today. I think that I'm glad that we've had people like you that really do care ⁓ about the next generation. What where could people find more information? Do they want to look Andrea Dine: Right. ⁓ so many. Efrain: check out the school, they want to ⁓ also continue to tap in with you guys. Are you guys on social? I think you just mentioned the new social coming out. What is the website and all that good stuff? Andrea Dine: We we will be but So yeah, you're welcome. ⁓ Brandeis University ⁓ is named after ⁓ Justice of the Supreme Court. So it's B-R-A-N-D-E-I-S.edu is our ⁓ main site. If you go to Brandeis.edu slash admissions, it really has all the new things in our evolution of new opportunities on campus, expansion of career services and support, and building that ⁓ bridge between the classroom and the street. ⁓ and so it's a wealth of information. You're of course welcome to ⁓ visit on our student affairs page. We will have an Instagram count. as well in the fall. ⁓ but all of our ⁓ departments as well as the central division have a site so you can find us quite easily. And I often joke that my email is my last name. We talked about being a foodie before my last name is Dines. So dine at brandice.edu is an easy memory technique. It works. It works. My mom always would do like dine with the dines. I don't go quite that far but ⁓ I'm but I'm easy to find. So and I'm happy to support colleagues doing the same work of course. Efrain: That is so funny. That's fine. Levin, are you active on on LinkedIn as well? That's cool. All right. Andrea Dine: I am. I am active on LinkedIn. Efrain: Listen, Andrea, thank you so much for the conversation. ⁓ thank you so much for just the insights and what's happening in the higher ed space, especially at a university like yours. ⁓ and for those that are still listening, this is a conversation that we love. I I love that you talk about authentic. You were authentic this whole time, and I think that's what makes a a good leader as well. So continue to be that. For those that are listening, make sure to continue to share, subscribe, and and just like, comment, all those good things because these how we continue to just keep the conversation going. So many of us in the same spaces. There's no need for us to fight. ⁓ you know, it's how do we come together to make this a better place. to make this a better experience because these students are having an experience of a lifetime. ⁓ Or sometimes it may not be that if we don't understand how to ⁓ fertilize the future per se. But I'm Ek for Hain, this is Andrea. Thank you guys for watching. I'll catch you in the next one. Laters.