Transcript

Sharri | 9 December · Sharri

0:01
Speaker 1: Why from Sky News.
0:04
Speaker 2: This is Sharry Good Evening.
0:08
Speaker 3: It's a huge show tonight from Annaka Wells to the
0:10
Speaker 3: RBA decision that the Triple O inquiry Andasina Allen's apology.
0:15
Speaker 3: You don't want to miss it. Here's what's coming up.
0:18
Speaker 3: The RBA Governor warns of great rises in the new year.
0:22
Speaker 3: This should be a wake up call for the Albanese
0:24
Speaker 3: government to stop its spending spree. I'll be joined by
0:28
Speaker 3: a former Treasury insider later. Also tonight, the clash between
0:32
Speaker 3: Liberal Senator Sarah Henderson and ABC host Sarah Ferguson in
0:37
Speaker 3: the corridors of Parliament. Henderson will reveal what was said
0:42
Speaker 3: in that fiery confrontation and how Albaneze's attitude to travel
0:47
Speaker 3: expenses has changed in the past decade, showing just how
0:51
Speaker 3: out of touch he's become. I'll discuss this with James
0:55
Speaker 3: Willis and Caleb Bond shortly.
0:58
Speaker 2: First tonight.
0:58
Speaker 3: The RBA Governor mill Bullock put Australia and the Albaneze
1:03
Speaker 3: government unnotice today. Unless inflation falls, interest rates will rise.
1:09
Speaker 3: Bullock was unmistakably firm she's clearly reluctant to lift rates
1:15
Speaker 3: both for families, but also because it would be an
1:18
Speaker 3: admission her strategy of cuts this year might have been premature,
1:23
Speaker 3: but Bullock was transparent that a hike is on the
1:26
Speaker 3: cards and maybe needed next year. She's worried the IBA
1:32
Speaker 3: eased rates too much and says the board is uncomfortable
1:36
Speaker 3: with a current inflation level, which sits at three point
1:39
Speaker 3: eight percent.
1:41
Speaker 4: We didn't consider the case for a rate cut at all.
1:45
Speaker 4: We didn't explicitly consider the case for a rate rise
1:49
Speaker 4: at this meeting, but we did consider and discuss quite
1:53
Speaker 4: a lot the circumstances and what might need to happen
1:58
Speaker 4: if we were decide that interestrates had to rise again
2:02
Speaker 4: at some point next years.
2:05
Speaker 3: And so the RBA today left rates on holt at
2:09
Speaker 3: three point six percent, but acknowledged a hike may be
2:13
Speaker 3: needed next year if inflation isn't curtailed, and Bullock was
2:18
Speaker 3: crystal clear that she won't tolerate inflation getting out of hand.
2:23
Speaker 4: If inflation continues to be persistent and looks like it
2:27
Speaker 4: is not coming back down towards the board's target, then
2:31
Speaker 4: I think that does raise questions about how tight financial
2:34
Speaker 4: conditions are, and the Board might have to consider whether
2:38
Speaker 4: or not it's appropriate to keep interest rates where they
2:40
Speaker 4: are or in fact, at some point raise them, But
2:42
Speaker 4: I wouldn't put a timing on that it's going to
2:45
Speaker 4: be a meeting by meeting.
2:47
Speaker 3: My criticism of Bullock is that she maintains she's taking
2:51
Speaker 3: a cautious approach. But how cautious was she Back in
2:55
Speaker 3: February when the RBA cut interest rates before the federal
2:59
Speaker 3: ala inflation hadn't returned to target. At the time, there
3:04
Speaker 3: wasn't a strong case for a cut, and it seemed
3:07
Speaker 3: to be driven by politics, designed perhaps to help the
3:11
Speaker 3: Albanezy government. At the time, we questioned just how much
3:16
Speaker 3: influence Treasury Secretary Stephen Kennedy had wielded in that decision,
3:22
Speaker 3: and in an unprecedented move, cameras were invited into the
3:27
Speaker 3: RBA board meeting to capture the moment that rates were cut.
3:32
Speaker 3: And that was the first of three and now the
3:35
Speaker 3: RBA governor is signaling that rates may have to rise.
3:38
Speaker 3: Her strategy could have been wrong, and a journalist asked
3:43
Speaker 3: her about this today.
3:45
Speaker 5: If the Reserve Bank is forced to lift interest rates
3:47
Speaker 5: next year, would that, in hindsight, have meant too many
3:52
Speaker 5: rate cuts for twenty twenty five.
3:54
Speaker 4: You could read it that way, but you could also
3:56
Speaker 4: read it and just as I said, you go back
4:00
Speaker 4: six or seven months and a lot of people were
4:01
Speaker 4: saying we needed to drop interest rates quite a lot
4:03
Speaker 4: because things were very, very soft. The board has been cautious.
4:07
Speaker 4: I think that that has been borne out.
4:11
Speaker 3: Bullock will be hoping that this inflation surge is temporary
4:15
Speaker 3: and that she doesn't need to raise rates in the
4:17
Speaker 3: new year. Yet there are now many economists, including from NAB,
4:23
Speaker 3: predicting that February is a live possibility for a rate hike,
4:28
Speaker 3: and Bullock is clearly putting the government on notice. While
4:32
Speaker 3: she was careful not to criticize the Treasurer, she did
4:36
Speaker 3: explicitly say that he was aware of the need to
4:38
Speaker 3: bring down inflation, and of course his main lever to
4:42
Speaker 3: do this is to cut spending.
4:45
Speaker 4: They have a lot of things to juggle and at
4:47
Speaker 4: the same time try and make sure that they contribute
4:50
Speaker 4: to bring inflation down, which I think is very top
4:53
Speaker 4: of mind for them, and whenever I speak to the Treasurer,
4:55
Speaker 4: he's always very conscious of that.
4:59
Speaker 2: Now, Liz to Bullock's final line.
5:03
Speaker 4: Here, the government at the moment seems focused on what
5:07
Speaker 4: they need to do to continue the fight against inflation,
5:10
Speaker 4: and up until recently, I think monetary policy and fiscal
5:14
Speaker 4: policy we were doing a good job.
5:17
Speaker 3: So that last line is important, she said, until recently,
5:21
Speaker 3: until recently, monetary and fiscal policy we're doing a good job.
5:26
Speaker 6: Well.
5:26
Speaker 3: Inflation today is stubborn, uncomfortable in her own words, and
5:31
Speaker 3: well above target. Temporary electricity rebates masked the problem, and
5:37
Speaker 3: Bullock says inflation won't return to the target band of
5:40
Speaker 3: two to three percent for another twelve months now. The
5:45
Speaker 3: Treasurer Jim Chalmers, denies that government spending is to blame
5:49
Speaker 3: for inflation rising, but he does acknowledge that difficult decisions,
5:54
Speaker 3: as he puts it, and cuts I needed.
5:57
Speaker 7: There will be difficult decisions in the media budget update.
6:01
Speaker 4: There will be savings, as there have been savings in
6:05
Speaker 4: all of our budgets and all of our updates.
6:09
Speaker 3: Chalmers says the need for restraint is why he's not
6:12
Speaker 3: continuing the electricity rebates, and he warned of tough moves
6:16
Speaker 3: in next year's In next week's my EFO, that's the
6:20
Speaker 3: midyear economic and Fiscal outlook. Now, this was a message
6:24
Speaker 3: as much to his colleagues as to the public, but
6:28
Speaker 3: The question is whether the government is willing to make
6:31
Speaker 3: significant spending cuts that would help the RBA to lower inflation,
6:36
Speaker 3: because bullet today was firm. If inflation doesn't fall, rates
6:43
Speaker 3: will have to rise and its families. He'll pay the price.
6:51
Speaker 2: Now.
6:51
Speaker 3: I'll come back to that a bit later with a
6:53
Speaker 3: former Treasury insider, and he's scathing of the government spending levels.
7:00
Speaker 3: The Parliamentary Authority will order Annika Wells taxpayer funded expenses
7:04
Speaker 3: and travel, including her family holiday to Threadbow and a
7:09
Speaker 3: trip to a friend's birthday party in Adelaide, all paid
7:12
Speaker 3: by the taxpayer. The investigation by the Independent Parliamentary Expenses
7:17
Speaker 3: Authority comes after a week of daily revelations about her
7:22
Speaker 3: largess at the public purse. But this isn't only about
7:27
Speaker 3: Annika Wells. The expenses scandal engulfing her says as much
7:32
Speaker 3: about the Prime Minister as it does about Wells. Because
7:36
Speaker 3: a decade ago, when our good friend Bronwin Bishop charted
7:40
Speaker 3: a five thousand dollars helicopter to travel from Melbourne to Geelong,
7:44
Speaker 3: Albanezi was furious. He spoke about a system that was
7:48
Speaker 3: out of touch with public expectations.
7:52
Speaker 8: If well as politicians expect respect from the Australian public. Clearly,
7:57
Speaker 8: we've got to respect them.
8:01
Speaker 3: That was, of course an interview with my colleague Andrew
8:03
Speaker 3: Bolt a decade ago, and Albanezi followed it up with
8:08
Speaker 3: lots more. He called the saga a bad movie. He said,
8:11
Speaker 3: it's four weddings and a political funeral. Now, alban Easy
8:17
Speaker 3: was outraged at this issue, at MP's wasting the public
8:21
Speaker 3: money on indulgent travel and expenses. And remember Bromwan Bishop
8:26
Speaker 3: paid back that five thousand dollars chopper ride. We haven't
8:29
Speaker 3: seen anyone at this point, particularly not Wells, offered to
8:33
Speaker 3: pay back any of her expenses. But it wasn't just
8:37
Speaker 3: alban Easy. Here were other labor and peas outraged over
8:42
Speaker 3: the broman Bishop chopper and also over Susan Lee because
8:46
Speaker 3: she'd bought a property while on a taxpayer funded trip
8:50
Speaker 3: to the Gold Coast in twenty seventeen.
8:54
Speaker 9: We've seen no repentance, contrition, no understanding at all of
8:58
Speaker 9: what they've done wrong. On Abbott and Bronwan Bishop. It's
9:03
Speaker 9: put simply, mister Abbott has to act, Bronwn Bishop has
9:06
Speaker 9: to go. If mister Abbott hadn't made the captain's pick
9:09
Speaker 9: of Bromwan Bishop. Maybe if you put someone respected by
9:12
Speaker 9: all sides like Bruce Scott into the speaker's position, this
9:16
Speaker 9: nation wouldn't have a soap opera, which is leaving Australian's
9:19
Speaker 9: view of politics diminished.
9:21
Speaker 10: But let's not escape from the fact that this still
9:23
Speaker 10: needs to be investigated and we need a ruling about
9:25
Speaker 10: whether it's within entitlement and whether Brolnn breach the criminal Code.
9:29
Speaker 10: It should be investigated by the Federal Police.
9:31
Speaker 11: I don't buy that this is a purchase on a whim.
9:34
Speaker 11: This is a minister who hasn used taxpayer funds to
9:40
Speaker 11: attend the Gold Coast and at the same time as
9:44
Speaker 11: she is there, a purchase has been made.
9:48
Speaker 3: Now Susan Lee had to resign from Malcolm Turnbull's cabinet
9:52
Speaker 3: over that scandal because at that time there was accountability.
9:57
Speaker 3: Now Annaka Wells is arguably accused of worse, including attending
10:01
Speaker 3: a friend's birthday party in Adelaide at taxpayer expense. But
10:06
Speaker 3: Alberizi's reaction to these revelations shows just how much he's
10:11
Speaker 3: changed in ten years, not just because he looked a
10:14
Speaker 3: lot younger then, because now, with example after example of
10:19
Speaker 3: Anika Well's eye watering expenses. Albanezi seeks to justify it.
10:26
Speaker 3: In fact, he says his office signed off on these expenses.
10:31
Speaker 2: As you know. It includes one.
10:33
Speaker 3: Thousand dollar Paris dinner where well says she fell asleep
10:38
Speaker 3: at the table. Now, last night on this show, James
10:40
Speaker 3: Patterson wondered if this was because she had too much
10:44
Speaker 3: to drink.
10:46
Speaker 5: I cannot understand how you could justify it spending one
10:49
Speaker 5: thousand dollars in Paris on a meal and seven hundred
10:53
Speaker 5: and fifty dollars on alcohol at that meal. Nanikoel said
10:56
Speaker 5: to Andrew Clenel on Sunday that she thought she fell
10:58
Speaker 5: asleep at the table. Did she fall asleep at the
11:00
Speaker 5: table because she drank seven hundred and fifty dollars worth
11:03
Speaker 5: of alcohol and the taxpayer tab? I mean, honestly, this
11:05
Speaker 5: is becoming a joke.
11:08
Speaker 3: The Australian Newspaper's editorial put it ciscincly today when it
11:12
Speaker 3: says that at a time when many households are struggling
11:17
Speaker 3: to make ends meet Wells's expenses, saga shows a cavalier
11:21
Speaker 3: disregard for taxpayers and a willingness to game the system
11:26
Speaker 3: for her own and her family's benefit, and they point
11:30
Speaker 3: out that Albanezi can't ignore the damages the revelations of
11:36
Speaker 3: a profical gate sorry profitgate spending are causing it, says,
11:42
Speaker 3: Wells's extravagant personal large ess is at odds with the
11:45
Speaker 3: need for fiscal discipline. Now, ALBINIZI will be hoping that
11:50
Speaker 3: Wells's referral to the IPIA for an audit will take
11:53
Speaker 3: the heat out of the scandal. But with today's inflation
11:57
Speaker 3: warning from the RBA, the power public anger over this
12:01
Speaker 3: issue isn't going away. Sticking with this topic and joining
12:09
Speaker 3: me now. Liberal Senator Sarah Henderson, Sarah, not many people
12:13
Speaker 3: know that you actually are responsible for this entire scandal
12:17
Speaker 3: kicking off because you asked insenate estimates a month or
12:21
Speaker 3: so ago for the total expense of Annika Well's Paris trip,
12:25
Speaker 3: but the official you questioned was unable to answer.
12:29
Speaker 2: Let's have a look at that moment.
12:31
Speaker 7: Do you have details of the total cost of the
12:33
Speaker 7: minister's travel, including the two officials? We do have, sorry,
12:37
Speaker 7: including the one official and the one person.
12:40
Speaker 6: Yes, we do have.
12:41
Speaker 9: That will have to check because we have to disaggregate
12:43
Speaker 9: the defat costs from the Department costs if I can
12:47
Speaker 9: come back to you later today on if.
12:49
Speaker 7: You could, because that is important, those costs would have
12:52
Speaker 7: been approved.
12:54
Speaker 3: And Sarah, of course, the government then provided that answer
12:57
Speaker 3: to you last week that one hundred thousand dollars.
13:03
Speaker 7: We'll sharr a good evening, yes, And as a result
13:05
Speaker 7: of that question, we learned that Anika Worlds and a
13:10
Speaker 7: staff member and a departmental official spent almost one hundred
13:16
Speaker 7: thousand dollars on flights. Anika's flight was thirty four and
13:21
Speaker 7: a half thousand dollars. Now that is a nigh watering
13:26
Speaker 7: amount for a return so called business class fair. We
13:30
Speaker 7: still don't know why the minister decided to go to
13:34
Speaker 7: New York in the middle of a triple zero crisis,
13:37
Speaker 7: but the fact that she didn't ask for a better quote,
13:40
Speaker 7: or go with another airline, or even explain how she
13:43
Speaker 7: could spend that much money, it just goes to the
13:47
Speaker 7: deep concerns that we have and of course many Australians
13:52
Speaker 7: have about this spending. And I am pleased to see
13:56
Speaker 7: that she has now self referred herself to IPIA. But
14:00
Speaker 7: we also need to see the Secretary of Prime Minister
14:04
Speaker 7: and Cabinet also implement an inquiry as to whether she
14:08
Speaker 7: has breached the Ministerial Code of Conduct.
14:12
Speaker 3: When you asked that question, did you ever imagine it
14:15
Speaker 3: would lead to this unraveling.
14:20
Speaker 2: No, I didn't.
14:21
Speaker 7: But that's one of the really important aspects of Senate estimate.
14:25
Speaker 2: It's a very.
14:25
Speaker 7: Important part of holding the government to account. We've had
14:28
Speaker 7: so many issues extracting questions and documents and FOI documents
14:33
Speaker 7: from the government. But I am pleased that we were
14:37
Speaker 7: able to highlight this reckless spending from this frankly hapless minister.
14:43
Speaker 2: I'm going to come back to that topic a bit later.
14:45
Speaker 3: I want to talk to you about another interrogation you've
14:49
Speaker 3: been doing today. This is relating to the Triplo artages.
14:52
Speaker 3: There's a snap Senate inquiry into it now, Sarah, you
14:55
Speaker 3: question the telecommunications company TPG Telecom, their chair, on whether
15:01
Speaker 3: there was a second fatality. And this is because people
15:04
Speaker 3: haven't been able to call Triple O.
15:08
Speaker 2: Have a look.
15:09
Speaker 7: So the Samsung device did not work when the caller
15:13
Speaker 7: dial Triple zero, but it then worked five minutes later.
15:18
Speaker 9: The phone was working on forty calls, but could not
15:23
Speaker 9: make emergency calls.
15:25
Speaker 7: But the phone could connect to the National Relay number.
15:29
Speaker 6: Could connect to any other number.
15:32
Speaker 7: And was the five minute delay in that person calling
15:36
Speaker 7: a critical factor in the death of that person.
15:39
Speaker 6: I don't have that information.
15:41
Speaker 3: I mean, Sarah, this is highly concerning. If someone has
15:44
Speaker 3: an outdated phone and not everyone can afford the newest versions,
15:48
Speaker 3: especially not in this cost of live in crisis, then
15:51
Speaker 3: they may not be able to call Triple O.
15:53
Speaker 2: Is that the evidence that you heard it is?
15:59
Speaker 12: Shari?
15:59
Speaker 7: This was a sended inquiry into the Optus triple zero
16:03
Speaker 7: outage which occurred in September. I initiated this inquiry because
16:08
Speaker 7: we were frankly getting far too few answers from the government.
16:12
Speaker 7: But we've now learned today as a result of many
16:15
Speaker 7: Australians having outdated phones, mainly Samsung phones, also some iPhones,
16:22
Speaker 7: and many are not capable of being upgraded, we heard
16:25
Speaker 7: about very tragically a second suspected death which occurred on
16:30
Speaker 7: the twenty fourth of September. Now this occurred when the
16:34
Speaker 7: Minister was swanning around in New York. We said very
16:38
Speaker 7: clearly she should never have gone to New York in
16:41
Speaker 7: the middle of an unfolding triple zero crisis. She was there,
16:47
Speaker 7: and I would say very strongly that It is a
16:50
Speaker 7: disgrace that the Minister, after learning on the twenty sixth
16:54
Speaker 7: of September that it was likely this was linked this
16:57
Speaker 7: death wall suspected death in terms of the linkage with
17:01
Speaker 7: the Samsung device that was the most obvious cause of
17:06
Speaker 7: the death, and yet the Minister never raised the alarm bells.
17:10
Speaker 7: She never screamed from the rooftops. Please, to all Australians
17:14
Speaker 7: who have incompatible devices, you must either replace your device
17:21
Speaker 7: or upgrade your device. And I think the carriers they've
17:24
Speaker 7: provided some answers today, they've also got more questions to
17:28
Speaker 7: answer in.
17:29
Speaker 13: My view as well.
17:30
Speaker 7: But it's a shocking case of mismanagement by the minister.
17:34
Speaker 7: I think there has been a cover up in relation
17:36
Speaker 7: to this second death, and clearly there's been a strong
17:41
Speaker 7: evidence of incompetence.
17:43
Speaker 2: Look to worry that there's going to be more.
17:46
Speaker 3: Of this, because how would any Australia know if their
17:49
Speaker 3: device is you know, they might just think it's an
17:52
Speaker 3: old phone. Who would know if they can contact TRIPLEO
17:54
Speaker 3: or on until it's an emergency. I think this is
17:56
Speaker 3: a very big problem and good on you for taking
17:58
Speaker 3: it up before you go.
18:00
Speaker 2: Sarah, the sitting Wrning.
18:02
Speaker 3: Herald reports today that you had a confrontation with the
18:06
Speaker 3: ABC seven thirty hosts Sarah Ferguson. This was in the
18:10
Speaker 3: corridors of Parliament House and it was over the doctored
18:14
Speaker 3: Donald Trump's speech. Now the Herald reports that Sarah Ferguson
18:19
Speaker 3: told you to get your facts right, that she confronted you.
18:23
Speaker 2: Can you tell us what happened?
18:27
Speaker 7: Well, I was having a very pleasant catch up with
18:30
Speaker 7: raf Epstein, of course, who hosts the breakfast program on
18:33
Speaker 7: ABC Radio in Melbourne. Passed Sarah in the corridor and
18:38
Speaker 7: she turned around and basically came back to me and said,
18:42
Speaker 7: in a very robust way, I have to say, Sharry,
18:45
Speaker 7: please stop attacking my journalism now. I was in the
18:49
Speaker 7: middle of trying to initiate an inquiry into the ABC
18:52
Speaker 7: and principally concerned with the ABC statutory obligation to disseminate
18:57
Speaker 7: news and information impartially accurately, and I had raised concerns
19:03
Speaker 7: about the way in which she had edited that four
19:06
Speaker 7: Corners program downfall. She had a very different view. I
19:11
Speaker 7: am disappointed that what I thought was a private conversation
19:14
Speaker 7: has been leaked to the newspaper. I didn't do it
19:18
Speaker 7: raf Epstein tells me he didn't do it, so I
19:20
Speaker 7: can only conclude who might have done.
19:22
Speaker 2: It, But willing to were you frank back to her,
19:27
Speaker 2: I probably.
19:29
Speaker 7: Not quite as robust as Sarah. I did have to
19:33
Speaker 7: ask her to stop putting her finger in my face.
19:36
Speaker 7: She was pointing fairly aggressively at me at one point,
19:40
Speaker 7: and look, I appreciate that she's under a bit of pressure.
19:43
Speaker 7: There was an interview she did with Susan Lee a
19:45
Speaker 7: few weeks ago where she was also criticized for being
19:48
Speaker 7: overly aggressive, basically interrupting Susan some thirty five times. But
19:55
Speaker 7: our job as senators, and particularly because I sit on
19:59
Speaker 7: the Environment and Communications Committee, is to ensure the ABC
20:03
Speaker 7: is the very best it can be. It's a publicly
20:07
Speaker 7: funded national broadcaster, and so I have a very important
20:10
Speaker 7: job to do, and so I'll always welcome the conversation
20:14
Speaker 7: with any ABC journalist. My doors are always open in
20:17
Speaker 7: terms of discussing these matters. But I was a little
20:21
Speaker 7: confronted by the public corridor discussion that I had this era.
20:26
Speaker 2: All right, Sarah Anderson, appreciate your time as always. Thank you.
20:30
Speaker 3: Now today we said goodbye to Graham Richardson at his
20:33
Speaker 3: state funeral. Richo was one of the Labor greats and
20:36
Speaker 3: a regular guest here on Wednesday nights. Even as his
20:40
Speaker 3: health was failing him, he showed up week after week
20:44
Speaker 3: ready to have his say on our panel with Michael
20:47
Speaker 3: Kroger and.
20:48
Speaker 2: We'll miss him today.
20:49
Speaker 3: Politicians from across the political spectrum, business figures, media heavyweights
20:54
Speaker 3: all showed up to pay their respects. The Prime Minister
20:58
Speaker 3: led the tributes to the key maker.
21:01
Speaker 8: There was no escape in the fact that Graham's life
21:03
Speaker 8: was often colorful, and it certainly wasn't short on controversy. Yet,
21:09
Speaker 8: if Graham was not perfect, he was always very direct.
21:13
Speaker 8: It's no secret that he played his politics hard, very hard.
21:18
Speaker 8: He was never one to consider losing as a valid option.
21:23
Speaker 3: Everyone I spoke to felt that Tony Abbott's speech was
21:27
Speaker 3: the best of the day. It was both funny and meaningful.
21:31
Speaker 6: There is only one New South Wales right.
21:35
Speaker 10: Most of it is in the Labor Party, but some
21:38
Speaker 10: of it is also in the Liberal Party.
21:40
Speaker 2: Two and he had quite a few laughs as well.
21:47
Speaker 3: But it was whife Amanda and Richo's son Darcy who
21:50
Speaker 3: moved to the church. Here was the moment Amanda revealed
21:54
Speaker 3: her husband's final words.
21:57
Speaker 14: When Graham passed away. He was sitting there across from me,
22:00
Speaker 14: and he leant forward and he said, I'm not ready
22:03
Speaker 14: to go yet, and I know and he said it's
22:06
Speaker 14: not my time, and I.
22:07
Speaker 2: Said, I know what.
22:08
Speaker 14: It was his time, and he was really cranky that
22:11
Speaker 14: he had to go.
22:14
Speaker 3: And Darcy, his eighteen year old son, spoke confidently about
22:18
Speaker 3: his dad's legacy.
22:20
Speaker 12: Dad left a legacy in this country of titanic proportions
22:24
Speaker 12: for me, being a great dad despite all his health
22:26
Speaker 12: challenges is his greatest legacy. While Aunt Graham richardson Dune
22:31
Speaker 12: Good played strong, love your Dad and thanks.
22:35
Speaker 3: And his speech was so beautiful and strong that there
22:38
Speaker 3: was an applause afterwards, which is unusual at a funeral.
22:42
Speaker 3: No one else had an applause. And I'm sure Richard
22:43
Speaker 3: would have been very proud of Darcy today. Maybe he
22:47
Speaker 3: was watching, you never know, depending what you believe now.
22:50
Speaker 3: At the wake or celebration of life afterwards, comedian Vince
22:54
Speaker 3: Serrenti joked that Annika Wells was shouting the drinks and
22:57
Speaker 3: he was so funny that even Tony Burke was laughing.
23:02
Speaker 3: Now I'm Joe now By Daily Telegraph commentator James Willis
23:06
Speaker 3: and Sky News host Caleb.
23:08
Speaker 2: I'd great to see you both. See you now, James.
23:11
Speaker 3: Richo was larger than life. He was controversial, as Albanez
23:16
Speaker 3: he mentioned, and look, he leaves a big hole in Australia.
23:20
Speaker 15: Look, he was far from perfect. I have to say though,
23:22
Speaker 15: that some of the negative commentary about him, you know
23:25
Speaker 15: what felt like hours after he had confirmed to have
23:28
Speaker 15: passed away, was insensitive and I think we get it
23:30
Speaker 15: wrong in this country when we go after people straight
23:33
Speaker 15: after they die.
23:34
Speaker 3: But obviously referring to the Kate mcclemont piece, literally a
23:38
Speaker 3: day or two.
23:38
Speaker 15: After he died, Oh, I think. I think there was
23:40
Speaker 15: various publications that I think just didn't quite one hit
23:43
Speaker 15: the mark at the time, and I thought what we
23:46
Speaker 15: saw today was a reflection of what he was all about. Look,
23:49
Speaker 15: I can tell you I know people personally that Richo
23:52
Speaker 15: had nothing to do with, but he was always the
23:55
Speaker 15: man that could enter the phone and you know, he
23:58
Speaker 15: used to sit down and just meant. He loved mentoring people.
24:01
Speaker 15: He loved being able to give his political wisdom to
24:04
Speaker 15: whoever he came across. And so you know, one of
24:07
Speaker 15: the all time greats and I thought it was a
24:09
Speaker 15: very touching tribute, and I agree with you. I thought
24:11
Speaker 15: Tony Abbott spoke brilliantly.
24:13
Speaker 2: He did.
24:13
Speaker 3: Indeed, Caleb Richard does take many secrets to the grave.
24:18
Speaker 1: Of course he does. And it's it's hard to think
24:20
Speaker 1: today of the political equivalent of a Graham Richardson really
24:26
Speaker 1: in either the Labor Party or anywhere else in politics.
24:29
Speaker 1: He existed at a time where, of course he was
24:32
Speaker 1: able to wield great power and did that upon not
24:35
Speaker 1: only the country but the party that he was a
24:38
Speaker 1: part of. And we know that factions are still very
24:40
Speaker 1: much part of the game, but riche knew how to
24:43
Speaker 1: play that factional game, probably better than anyone else ever
24:48
Speaker 1: really has he wielded that power, he used it. And
24:53
Speaker 1: when you listen to watched his commentary as well, you
24:57
Speaker 1: always got the sense that he was telling you exactly
24:59
Speaker 1: what he thought. And there's lots of people who leave
25:02
Speaker 1: politics and go on to do commentary and you always
25:06
Speaker 1: kind of know that they're just defending their party. And
25:09
Speaker 1: there were times when you know, rich of course backed
25:12
Speaker 1: in Labor. We knew that, but he wasn't afraid to
25:15
Speaker 1: give a whack to members of the Labor Party either
25:18
Speaker 1: when he thought they needed it was. He was honest
25:20
Speaker 1: in that way certainly.
25:22
Speaker 3: And as all the viewers of this show. No, he
25:25
Speaker 3: did that frequently when it came to the Albanese government's
25:28
Speaker 3: approach to Israel and anti Semitism in particular. But he
25:31
Speaker 3: also disagreed with the Voice. And it was quite funny
25:35
Speaker 3: because he came on the show early on and he said,
25:37
Speaker 3: I'm voting no, I don't think the voice is going
25:40
Speaker 3: to work. And then a couple of months later, Alberizi
25:43
Speaker 3: must have said to him, mate, get on board, because
25:45
Speaker 3: then suddenly.
25:46
Speaker 2: He changed his ge and he was backing in the.
25:49
Speaker 15: Bomb, which was quite and I didn't realize that until
25:52
Speaker 15: I read English's piece on the Telegraph today how close
25:55
Speaker 15: he was to Anastasia Palichet as well.
25:57
Speaker 6: So the respect that he.
25:58
Speaker 15: Had amongst Labor leaders. Also on election night, for those
26:02
Speaker 15: that sort of skim around various coverage, you were waiting
26:06
Speaker 15: for Richo to call it, because when Richo called it,
26:08
Speaker 15: he was always normally the first, and normally nine times
26:11
Speaker 15: out of ten he was right. So you got it
26:12
Speaker 15: right on election night.
26:13
Speaker 6: So often.
26:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, he had the amazing ability to understand public sentiment
26:17
Speaker 3: and what Australians were thinking. I don't know how, but
26:20
Speaker 3: he did. So there you go, and we'll definitely miss
26:23
Speaker 3: him on the show. And Benny Lush's piece was terrific today,
26:26
Speaker 3: by the way. Now returning to today's top story, RBA
26:30
Speaker 3: has left interest rates on hold for now. They've said
26:33
Speaker 3: cuts are off the table, so it's the end of
26:36
Speaker 3: the cutting cycle and a rate hike is a live
26:40
Speaker 3: possibility next year now, James.
26:43
Speaker 2: If there is a rate rise.
26:45
Speaker 3: Which is what Michelle Bullock was clearly warning about today,
26:49
Speaker 3: this would be a sign of economic mismanagement.
26:52
Speaker 15: Yeah, and look at Michelle Bullock won't say it, but
26:55
Speaker 15: I mean the spending from the federal government is still
26:57
Speaker 15: far too high, Sharry. I think it's twenty seven per
27:00
Speaker 15: cent of GDP. It hasn't been that level outside of
27:02
Speaker 15: COVID since the nineteen eighties. And obviously state governments are
27:05
Speaker 15: piling on a stack of money, I mean.
27:07
Speaker 2: As brutal as it is.
27:08
Speaker 15: Thank god, Jim Chalmers, it was a smart decision to
27:11
Speaker 15: not extend the energy rebates again, even if people appreciated them,
27:15
Speaker 15: because you know, during the election cycle, labor was squirting
27:19
Speaker 15: money around left, right and center that got them re elected,
27:21
Speaker 15: but it's time to be a little bit smarter. The
27:24
Speaker 15: sad thing is it looks like the RBA is concerned
27:26
Speaker 15: that they probably cut rates too many times this year
27:29
Speaker 15: and they're going to have to head in the other
27:30
Speaker 15: direction unless something dramatic changes, although it's a bit of
27:34
Speaker 15: an uncertain time. The other thing just to note is
27:37
Speaker 15: that the insolvencies and businesses over the next twelve months
27:40
Speaker 15: are going to be very very interesting. I think obviously
27:42
Speaker 15: construction's obviously an issue, but hospitality and retail watch this
27:46
Speaker 15: space because I think there's a lot of businesses really struggling.
27:50
Speaker 3: At the moment I heard it was a good what
27:52
Speaker 3: do you call it, Black Friday? That's what we just
27:54
Speaker 3: had good Black Friday sales for retail. But we're yet
27:57
Speaker 3: to see what the Christmas Boxing Day period will be like. Caleb,
28:01
Speaker 3: I want to ask you about justinto Allen's move today
28:05
Speaker 3: on the treaty and these revelations in the Herald Sign
28:08
Speaker 3: that there were a secret ministerial briefings hidden from MPs
28:13
Speaker 3: about the treaty. I mean, this seems to be a
28:17
Speaker 3: pattern now of keeping information away from the public relating
28:23
Speaker 3: to this issue.
28:24
Speaker 1: Of course, because if people knew what was really going on,
28:27
Speaker 1: they wouldn't be behind it, would they. And clearly if
28:30
Speaker 1: MP's have to have this stuff hidden from them too.
28:33
Speaker 1: It is an admission from the Allan stroke Andrew's government
28:37
Speaker 1: that this does not have broad support, perhaps even in
28:40
Speaker 1: the Labor Party, let alone the rest of the public.
28:43
Speaker 1: Because we knew this was going to happen. It was
28:45
Speaker 1: talked about from the beginning that you have treaty and well,
28:48
Speaker 1: people will then say, if you've acknowledged my right to
28:51
Speaker 1: this land in some way and we've done a deal,
28:55
Speaker 1: which is what a treaty is, to say that you
28:57
Speaker 1: also have a right to be here, don't you get
28:59
Speaker 1: competent for that? I mean, in any other circumstance where
29:02
Speaker 1: you buy a piece of property or you exchange something
29:05
Speaker 1: with someone else, you get compensation for that. So, of
29:08
Speaker 1: course people are going to expect Aboriginal people and I
29:10
Speaker 1: probably should more accurately say aboriginal organizations expect reparations as
29:15
Speaker 1: part of that. We all knew that was going to happen.
29:18
Speaker 1: They tried to cover it up and then we get
29:20
Speaker 1: an apology today. The third or fourth time in Victoria
29:24
Speaker 1: that they've offered an apology even am on the fact
29:26
Speaker 1: that Kevin Rudd did it, you know, fifteen odd years ago.
29:29
Speaker 1: And here we are again saying we're very sorry, We're
29:32
Speaker 1: very sorry. Now that we've said sorry again, does that
29:35
Speaker 1: mean we'll all just be one and move on? I
29:38
Speaker 1: don't think so.
29:39
Speaker 2: Yeah.
29:39
Speaker 15: And this was after truth telling as well in Victoria,
29:42
Speaker 15: which was sort of a sideline court that invited people
29:45
Speaker 15: to come and claim how their ancestors had been wronged.
29:48
Speaker 15: And part of this is what compensation as well, and
29:52
Speaker 15: hundreds of millions of dollars at least.
29:54
Speaker 2: Where does it end?
29:56
Speaker 15: I mean, you hope that sort of people aren't protesting
29:58
Speaker 15: off the back of this on Australia maybe this year.
30:00
Speaker 2: Or that, But I just don't know. We'll see where
30:04
Speaker 2: it goes. James Willis calebond see way to say.
30:08
Speaker 3: Now tomorrow the government's under sixteen social media ban starts.
30:13
Speaker 2: It's a policy that is widely applauded.
30:16
Speaker 3: By parents and joining me now to discuss a shadow
30:19
Speaker 3: Communications Minister Melissa McIntosh.
30:21
Speaker 2: Melissa, thanks so much for your time.
30:23
Speaker 3: Look, I think many people actually forget. I think many
30:26
Speaker 3: people forget that this was actually a policy first announced
30:30
Speaker 3: by Peter Dutton and David Coleman and then it was
30:34
Speaker 3: later adopted by Albanesi that this was a coalition policy,
30:38
Speaker 3: was it not?
30:40
Speaker 16: Yeah, it certainly was, thanks Shari. It was a Peter
30:44
Speaker 16: Dutton policy around protecting Australian children and it is something
30:50
Speaker 16: that the Coalition did commit to and took to the
30:53
Speaker 16: election and then Labor did adopt. I think things change
30:57
Speaker 16: once they got into Labour's hands. The and I've been
31:02
Speaker 16: pretty vocal these last few months in questioning the rollout
31:05
Speaker 16: of the social media band. We all want to protect
31:08
Speaker 16: Australian children. I'm getting accused by the Communications Minister of
31:12
Speaker 16: dog whistling on this, but I think it's my job
31:15
Speaker 16: to prosecute against the government if I see they're failing
31:19
Speaker 16: on one of their signature policies. We know the Minister
31:22
Speaker 16: when overseas during the Optust crisis to pr this particular policy.
31:27
Speaker 16: But I'm concerned on an issue that may not be
31:30
Speaker 16: quite in the public and that's around digital ID and
31:33
Speaker 16: platforms compelling Australians to produce this, and Anika Wells is
31:38
Speaker 16: saying that's not the case. But I've spoken to the platforms,
31:41
Speaker 16: the Age verification technology is a new technology. There's quite
31:45
Speaker 16: a high percentage of failure in the trials. So they've
31:49
Speaker 16: said to me they don't want fifty million dollar fines.
31:52
Speaker 16: If the age verification technology is not working, they can't
31:55
Speaker 16: verify an age, they will ask for a driver's license
31:58
Speaker 16: or a birth certificate. That information is going to a
32:02
Speaker 16: third party company that will then get stored in a
32:05
Speaker 16: data center offshore. The Minister herself and the platforms can't
32:10
Speaker 16: say what's going to happen to that data or when
32:13
Speaker 16: it will be destroyed. This is very personal information that
32:17
Speaker 16: belongs to Australian So that's one of the just one
32:20
Speaker 16: of the issues that I've been really pushing hard on,
32:24
Speaker 16: not to the pleasure of the minister.
32:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is a very concerning issue, particularly with the
32:30
Speaker 3: increase in foreign state sponsored cyber attacks as well. I've
32:35
Speaker 3: also spoken though to parents of teenagers who say that
32:38
Speaker 3: their teens saw this was coming have already worked out
32:42
Speaker 3: how to change their age so that they can still
32:45
Speaker 3: use apps like Snapchat, which is how I'm told teenagers communicate,
32:50
Speaker 3: that's how they message. So, you know, does more need
32:53
Speaker 3: to be done to ensure compliance here?
32:57
Speaker 16: Well, this is part of the problem and the government's
33:00
Speaker 16: roll out was the drip feeding of platforms, and some
33:05
Speaker 16: platforms in and some are out. YouTube's in, but now
33:08
Speaker 16: we've still got social media platforms that aren't included, and
33:11
Speaker 16: the stories of kids already migrating across to platforms that
33:15
Speaker 16: you and I probably didn't even know existed a couple
33:18
Speaker 16: of weeks ago. So they're not getting off social media,
33:22
Speaker 16: they're just moving on to a different form. And the
33:25
Speaker 16: great concern there is them moving across to really unsafe
33:30
Speaker 16: environments online, and that's what we want to protect them from.
33:33
Speaker 16: I feel like I'm sort of the shadow minister for
33:36
Speaker 16: big warnings, but that's.
33:38
Speaker 2: Sort of the reality.
33:39
Speaker 16: And something else I've uncovered just recently is, you know,
33:43
Speaker 16: all these psychologists that come out and warning parents to
33:46
Speaker 16: watch out for their kids and their mental health, but
33:48
Speaker 16: the government's done nothing to invest in youth mental health
33:51
Speaker 16: services extra investment to make sure that they have capacity
33:55
Speaker 16: to deal with any of these issues. So it's all
33:58
Speaker 16: well and good to didn't mean to pun this. Good
34:01
Speaker 16: to go and do a pr stint in New York,
34:05
Speaker 16: but be here, do you job at home, whether it's
34:08
Speaker 16: making sure that this is successful for Australian kids or
34:12
Speaker 16: keeping people safe during a triple zero crissis that should
34:15
Speaker 16: be your number one priority.
34:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
34:18
Speaker 3: Look I had a mum on the show last night,
34:20
Speaker 3: Amy Friedland, and she was saying that really one of
34:23
Speaker 3: the best solutions is actually for parents to move to
34:25
Speaker 3: dumb phones not smartphones. That gets it out around a
34:28
Speaker 3: lot of the issues, and it still addresses the security.
34:31
Speaker 3: You know, parents want to be able to contact their
34:33
Speaker 3: kids at any time. Look, just before we go, obviously
34:37
Speaker 3: the Anaka Wells scandal has been the major story of
34:39
Speaker 3: the week, but yesterday my colleague Andrew Clonel questioned you
34:44
Speaker 3: about your own expenses and he revealed that tax payers
34:47
Speaker 3: had paid for you and your son to fly to
34:50
Speaker 3: the Gold Coast in twenty twenty three, and he reported
34:55
Speaker 3: Colonel reported that your son competed in the Australian National
34:58
Speaker 3: Judo Championships. So, Melissa, why should taxpayers pay for your
35:03
Speaker 3: son's flight to his own judo championships?
35:08
Speaker 16: Yeah, I know Andrew's very interested in this one. And
35:13
Speaker 16: this is about an invite I received to go the
35:16
Speaker 16: Gold Coast from Karen who was the member for McPherson,
35:20
Speaker 16: and I was setting up to do all sorts of events.
35:23
Speaker 16: And Byron had recently been diagnosed with type one diabetes,
35:27
Speaker 16: which is a pretty serious illness, and he was recently
35:31
Speaker 16: diagnosed and I wanted him with me at at same
35:34
Speaker 16: time he was invited to compete in the championships and
35:37
Speaker 16: we didn't actually know if he would do that or
35:39
Speaker 16: not because he was quite unwell.
35:41
Speaker 2: He ended up doing that. He came with me.
35:43
Speaker 16: I didn't take a staff members actually saved the taxpayers
35:46
Speaker 16: money on this. Barron took all my photos and then
35:48
Speaker 16: he did his event and I paid for his flight
35:51
Speaker 16: home because I've thought that was reasonable so for.
35:54
Speaker 2: Me in't there. But did you time your visits? He
35:59
Speaker 2: helped me out family. Did you time your visit Judo Chachapionships?
36:05
Speaker 11: No?
36:06
Speaker 16: No, And I got codence that it was yeah, around
36:10
Speaker 16: the around the dates that I was invited, and I
36:14
Speaker 16: was invited first, and I was being very careful to
36:16
Speaker 16: make sure that I was clear on this because I'm
36:20
Speaker 16: a true believer in having reunions of family around work,
36:24
Speaker 16: not around big events or or you know, going to
36:27
Speaker 16: certain things. And this was coincidental, and I wanted to
36:30
Speaker 16: make sure it was clear.
36:31
Speaker 3: It was as I was Championships were at the same
36:36
Speaker 3: time as that visit to the Gold Coast.
36:38
Speaker 16: Yeah, that was the date I was many Yeah, and
36:39
Speaker 16: it's all been cleared by Ipiot's gone through the whole process.
36:43
Speaker 16: I've had clearance and that will be released publicly.
36:46
Speaker 3: All right, Lessa, appreciate your time, Thank you so much.
36:50
Speaker 3: Now still to come. Did the RBA make a mistake
36:53
Speaker 3: cutting rates from a Treasury insider? Would join me soon
36:56
Speaker 3: and what the coalition needs to do to get back
36:59
Speaker 3: in the game. The esteemed Paul Kelly will be here next.
37:07
Speaker 2: Welcome back. Well.
37:07
Speaker 3: For the past few months, the state of the Liberal
37:10
Speaker 3: Party has loomed large. Pole's point to an impending electoral
37:14
Speaker 3: disaster another one. Policies are still up in the air
37:18
Speaker 3: and division is rife. It leaves the Albanezi government to
37:23
Speaker 3: do as it pleases with too little accountability. We're joining
37:27
Speaker 3: me to discuss is The Australian's editor at large.
37:30
Speaker 2: Paul Kelly. Paul, great to see, thank you for being here.
37:34
Speaker 6: Very good to be here. Shari.
37:35
Speaker 3: Now, in your recent article you write that the Liberals
37:39
Speaker 3: should really be focusing more on the economy and less
37:44
Speaker 3: on social issues.
37:46
Speaker 2: Why do you think this is the case.
37:48
Speaker 6: But if we look at what happened at the last election,
37:51
Speaker 6: we can see that the Liberals lost in three big
37:55
Speaker 6: overarching strategic areas. The economy. Labor, incredibly after what had
38:00
Speaker 6: happened for the previous three years, were seen was the
38:03
Speaker 6: superior party for economic management. Just think about that. So
38:07
Speaker 6: this was the Liberal Party traditional strength that had gone
38:10
Speaker 6: to Labor. Secondly, leadership Anthony Albanezi was seen as a
38:15
Speaker 6: far superior leader to Peter Dutton, having been a far
38:19
Speaker 6: superior leader to Scott Morrison previously. And Thirdly, the preference system.
38:24
Speaker 6: Labour controls the preference system. So these are the three
38:28
Speaker 6: issues that the coalition on the Liberal Party has got
38:31
Speaker 6: to address. Now, the obvious thing to do after the election,
38:34
Speaker 6: given Labour's vulnerability on the economy, given that this is
38:38
Speaker 6: the traditional strength of the Liberal Party, the Liberal should
38:42
Speaker 6: have focused on the economy in order to get back
38:45
Speaker 6: their economic credentials. Now this wasn't all that hard to do.
38:50
Speaker 6: The main requirement was to run a unified party, attack
38:54
Speaker 6: Labour's economic record and stress the economic principles on which
38:59
Speaker 6: the Liberal Party he would run. They singularly fail to
39:02
Speaker 6: do any of that, and we have the extraordinary situation
39:06
Speaker 6: that is very low. This dismal labor, this dismal Liberal
39:11
Speaker 6: primary vote of thirty one percent, but the last election
39:15
Speaker 6: fell to twenty four percent. I mean, it's almost inconceivable.
39:18
Speaker 3: It really is, when our seven months since the election,
39:21
Speaker 3: the economy is clearly struggling. We've seen inflation is sticky,
39:26
Speaker 3: and yet the Liberals still aren't seizing the economy as
39:30
Speaker 3: their primary issue. I think they don't have the strongest
39:33
Speaker 3: performer in treasury, They've got Ted O'Brien, and instead they're
39:37
Speaker 3: focusing on mostly net zero and now they're moving on
39:42
Speaker 3: to migration. Important issues of course, but as you say,
39:46
Speaker 3: the economy is the single biggest issue for voters because
39:50
Speaker 3: of how families have been struggling for so many years.
39:53
Speaker 6: Now, well, the party is very divided and it seems
39:57
Speaker 6: not to be able to function properly. Net zero is
40:01
Speaker 6: an important issue. It's by no means clear that the
40:04
Speaker 6: position on net zero will be a net plus for
40:08
Speaker 6: the coalition and for the Liberal Party. We'll have to
40:11
Speaker 6: see what happens when it comes to immigration. Clearly immigration
40:14
Speaker 6: is a really important issue. But I come back to
40:17
Speaker 6: the question of the economy. This is where labor is weak.
40:20
Speaker 6: I mean, it's just extraordinary. We've now seen that interest
40:24
Speaker 6: rates may well go up next year. Labour's got a
40:27
Speaker 6: government spending problem, it's got a cost of living problem,
40:31
Speaker 6: and so this should be the focus of the coalition
40:35
Speaker 6: and Liberal Party attack. This is where they need to
40:38
Speaker 6: get back in front.
40:40
Speaker 2: Are you of the.
40:41
Speaker 3: View that the Liberal Party is facing an existential crisis
40:45
Speaker 3: or do you think this situation is not as catastrophic
40:49
Speaker 3: as many fear.
40:51
Speaker 6: This is not just a cyclical situation.
40:53
Speaker 2: It's not.
40:54
Speaker 6: No, it's certainly not. I mean, this is a fundamental,
40:57
Speaker 6: structural and cultural crisis for the Liberal Party. You can
41:01
Speaker 6: call it an existential crisis if you want to, but
41:04
Speaker 6: there's no doubt that this is the most important, the
41:07
Speaker 6: most significant crisis the Liberal Party has faced since Mensis
41:11
Speaker 6: formed the party. And it's got to be addressed at
41:14
Speaker 6: this level. So it's got to be addressed at the
41:16
Speaker 6: level of policy, at the level of philosophy, at the
41:19
Speaker 6: level of the economy, leadership and preferences. This is not
41:23
Speaker 6: being done.
41:24
Speaker 3: That's a very big call that this is the biggest
41:27
Speaker 3: crisis they've faced since the party was found.
41:30
Speaker 2: It huge call.
41:31
Speaker 6: I don't think there's any question about that. I mean,
41:33
Speaker 6: the primary vote is down to twenty four percent. Now,
41:36
Speaker 6: that is an untenable level at the moment.
41:39
Speaker 3: Well, I've interviewed people like the former Prime Minister Scott Morrison,
41:42
Speaker 3: and I've spoken to other very senior figures privately who
41:46
Speaker 3: do think this is cyclical and that the Liberal Party
41:50
Speaker 3: has had an identity crisis before, you know, the Malcolm Turbul,
41:53
Speaker 3: Brandon Nelson leadership, Joe Hockey putting his hand in that
41:58
Speaker 3: this is just a repeat of that an ebb and flow.
42:01
Speaker 6: I understand what those previous leaders are saying. I understand that,
42:07
Speaker 6: but I think the facts are such that the situation
42:10
Speaker 6: is much worse than what they describe. I think this
42:13
Speaker 6: is very clear from the polls, it's very clear from
42:16
Speaker 6: the state of the parliamentary party. It's very clear from
42:19
Speaker 6: the divisions. This was inherent in the terrible result in
42:24
Speaker 6: the May election and what's happened since then. The party's
42:27
Speaker 6: in a much worse position now than it was last May.
42:30
Speaker 6: I mean, you can't pretend that this is just a
42:32
Speaker 6: secretical issue. It isn't. And if that's how the party
42:35
Speaker 6: be if that's how the party behaves, then it's just
42:39
Speaker 6: going to sink further and further.
42:41
Speaker 3: And added to that, of course, we've seen just yesterday
42:45
Speaker 3: Barnaby Joyce, a former deputy Prime minister no less joining
42:49
Speaker 3: one Nation.
42:50
Speaker 2: How significant is this in your mind?
42:53
Speaker 6: Well, this will damage the National Party. It is an
42:55
Speaker 6: act of disloyalty. Many people on the party would see
42:59
Speaker 6: it as act of betrayal. That contributes to the sense
43:03
Speaker 6: of internal fracture within the coalition. I have to say,
43:08
Speaker 6: based on the evidence so far, it seems as though
43:11
Speaker 6: Barnaby Joyce did this for his own personal interest. He
43:15
Speaker 6: felt marginalized in the National Party. He's got more of
43:19
Speaker 6: a chance of self promotion with One Nation. And when
43:23
Speaker 6: it comes to net zero, well, the National Party in
43:26
Speaker 6: the coalition embraced opposition to net zero, which was the
43:30
Speaker 6: position that he wanted. So it's hard to see there's
43:32
Speaker 6: any policy reason why he went to One Nation. It
43:36
Speaker 6: just seems to be about personal self interest. I think
43:39
Speaker 6: that's particularly disappointing and particularly damaging and it is a
43:43
Speaker 6: reflection on Barnaby.
43:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I agree with you.
43:46
Speaker 3: I mean, his original excuse, as you say, was because
43:48
Speaker 3: of net zero, but then the party's position was to
43:51
Speaker 3: dump it.
43:51
Speaker 2: And he still went and defect it. Poor Kelly.
43:54
Speaker 3: Look forward to reading your piece on Saturday. Do you
43:56
Speaker 3: know what you're writing yet?
43:57
Speaker 6: I do. I'm writing assessment of Malcolm Fraser's Prime minister
44:02
Speaker 6: Given that next weekend will be fifty years since Malcolm
44:07
Speaker 6: Fraser one of the people's verdict at the nineteen seventy
44:12
Speaker 6: five election. Nobody talks about Malcolm Fraser these days. We
44:16
Speaker 6: talk a lot about GoF Whitlam, but we've got to
44:17
Speaker 6: remember Fraser. One. Fraser was the victor in nineteen seventy
44:22
Speaker 6: five and he governed for eight years as Prime minister.
44:26
Speaker 6: Who was Malcolm Fraser? Well, I'm going to address that
44:29
Speaker 6: issue next weekend in The Australian.
44:32
Speaker 3: And I mean we had this conversation on Thursday, Paul,
44:35
Speaker 3: and I was surprised to hear that, despite your anger
44:38
Speaker 3: at the dismissal, you then took a very fair minded
44:41
Speaker 3: approach to Malcolm Fraser's Prime ministership.
44:43
Speaker 2: So I look forward to reading your assessment on Saturday.
44:46
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for being here. Now, don't go anywhere.
44:49
Speaker 3: Has the RBA made a mistake in cutting rates too
44:52
Speaker 3: soon this year? And how much is inflation down to
44:55
Speaker 3: the Albanezy government's spending. Well, I'll talk about that with
44:58
Speaker 3: the former Assistant Treasury secretary after the break. Welcome back, Well,
45:07
Speaker 3: let's bring it now from an Assistant Treasury Secretary, David Pearl. David,
45:11
Speaker 3: great to see you again. Now you heard Michelle Bullock's
45:15
Speaker 3: comments today. What message do you think she's sending both
45:20
Speaker 3: Australia and the government.
45:25
Speaker 13: Good evening, Sharie and thanks for having me on. I
45:27
Speaker 13: think she's sending a message to Australia and the government
45:32
Speaker 13: that the RBA board will probably have to raise the
45:35
Speaker 13: cash rate early next year, but she and her board
45:40
Speaker 13: have their fingers crossed that the inflation disaster we saw
45:44
Speaker 13: in the September quarter will be a temporary one. I
45:48
Speaker 13: think the clear evidence, though, if you look at the
45:51
Speaker 13: range of goods and services across the CPIO basket in
45:54
Speaker 13: the September quarter, is that inflationary forces are broad based
45:59
Speaker 13: and in fact the itself has said that the economy
46:02
Speaker 13: has been at full capacity for over twelve months.
46:06
Speaker 3: Do you think this means that the RBA erred when
46:10
Speaker 3: it cut rates three times this year?
46:14
Speaker 6: Absolutely?
46:15
Speaker 13: It was really interesting that Michelle Bullock in her press
46:18
Speaker 13: conference and also in the statement emphasized that she and
46:22
Speaker 13: her board are taking a cautious approach to changing the
46:27
Speaker 13: policy rate. Well, they weren't cautious in February. In fact,
46:31
Speaker 13: they front ran many economists in the private sector and
46:36
Speaker 13: others that caught people by surprise headline inflation. As you know,
46:40
Speaker 13: Shari had not returned sorry underlying inflation and not returned
46:43
Speaker 13: to the two to three percent banned in February. So
46:47
Speaker 13: when she says she and her board are being cautious,
46:49
Speaker 13: I think people would be forgiven for seeing that as
46:53
Speaker 13: cautious to raise rates, not cautious to cut rates, which
46:58
Speaker 13: they weren't this year.
47:00
Speaker 3: Just in terms of what's causing inflation, I know you
47:03
Speaker 3: said it's broad based, but how much of this is
47:06
Speaker 3: because of the high level of government spending? I mean,
47:09
Speaker 3: you know you're an old school traditional treasury economist.
47:15
Speaker 13: Well, even Wayne Swan, who I don't think was a
47:18
Speaker 13: particularly distinguished treasurer, said coming out of the global financial
47:23
Speaker 13: crisis when the economy is recovering, that if you're a
47:26
Speaker 13: Kanesian going into a crisis and therefore support increased government spending,
47:31
Speaker 13: you've got to be a Kinesian coming out when the
47:33
Speaker 13: economy is recovering and rain in government spending. So even
47:36
Speaker 13: Wayne Swan, who did not have a good economic record,
47:40
Speaker 13: acknowledges that Jim Chalmers doesn't. Now the private economy is
47:44
Speaker 13: growing quite strongly. Consumption is up, business investment is recovering,
47:51
Speaker 13: and that is meaning that any public service activity is
47:55
Speaker 13: putting pressure on inflation. Jim Chalmers last year emphasized from
47:59
Speaker 13: the economy was not growing rapidly, that public service activity
48:04
Speaker 13: public spending was keeping the economy going well. Now, with
48:07
Speaker 13: the economy booming and inflation well above target and headline terms,
48:11
Speaker 13: there's a clear need to rain in spending, not one
48:15
Speaker 13: or two decisions, not rebates, but across the board. And
48:18
Speaker 13: we know that Jim Chalmers won't have the bottle to
48:21
Speaker 13: do that. Next Week's my IFO.
48:23
Speaker 2: You don't think there will be spending cuts next week?
48:26
Speaker 13: Well, all he said is that MAIFO won't be a
48:28
Speaker 13: spend of thon. No, not significant. He doesn't believe it.
48:32
Speaker 3: I know you say Wayne Swan wasn't distinguished. I remind
48:36
Speaker 3: you he was voted the world's best treasurer. As he
48:39
Speaker 3: likes to tell everyone. David Pearl, so great to see
48:42
Speaker 3: you as always. Thank you so much. It's to worry
48:46
Speaker 3: about the economy, that's for sure, all right. I look
48:49
Speaker 3: forward to seeing you tomorrow night at eight o'clock. And
48:52
Speaker 3: right now, after the break, here's Paul Murray.