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LUIGI MANGIONE TRIAL DELAY? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Spoiled Bratt Healthcare assassin suspect
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  Speaker 1: Luigi Mangione's latest court room antic I'm Nancy Grace, this
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  Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
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  Speaker 1: with us. That's right, Luigi Mangione. Why does anybody thank
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  Speaker 1: you sex? See he looks like a killer to me.
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  Speaker 1: Luigimanngione's lawyers now insisting his state and federal trials must
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  Speaker 1: be delayed. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I
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  Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us. Delay, Delay,
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  Speaker 1: Delay a defendant's best friend. Luigimanngione's fleet of lawyers demanding
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  Speaker 1: the judge postpone is federal trial in the assassination of
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  Speaker 1: United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. They want to delay it
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  Speaker 1: until at least twenty twenty seven. They also want to
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  Speaker 1: have his state murder trial delayed. The lawyers are whining
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  Speaker 1: that having one trial in June and one in September
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  Speaker 1: would put MANGIONI quote in the position of needing to
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  Speaker 1: prepare for two complicated, in serious trials at the same time. Uh. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that's why you shouldn't murder anybody, right. The defense received
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  Speaker 1: some concessions from judges overseeing Mangioni's murder trials. The twenty
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  Speaker 1: seven year old face's dual prosecutions in state and federal court.
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  Speaker 1: As you said, Nancy, his defense attorney's expressed concerns about
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  Speaker 1: preparing for two trials simultaneously. They had wanted a federal
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  Speaker 1: trial date of January twenty twenty seven. The state trial
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  Speaker 1: was initially scheduled to begin on June eighth. That's around
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  Speaker 1: the time prospective jurors would be filled going out questionnaires
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  Speaker 1: for the federal trial. It was scheduled for a false start.
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  Speaker 1: US District Judge Margaret Garnett would not push the date
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  Speaker 1: into the new year, but pushed back the federal jury
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  Speaker 1: selection process to early September. She pointed out potential jurors
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  Speaker 1: would be responding to questionnaires at the same time that quote,
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  Speaker 1: there's a massive press pool and a lot of attention
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  Speaker 1: on the state trial, which is ongoing just two blocks
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  Speaker 1: from here. Pushing back the jury questionnaires will help to
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  Speaker 1: avoid prospective jurors being influenced by the ongoing state trial.
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  Speaker 2: Now here's the problem. Not long after that, New York
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  Speaker 2: State Judge Gregory Carro issued an order saying the state
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  Speaker 2: trial would now start September eighth. This delay sets up
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  Speaker 2: the same conflict that the federal judge was trying to avoid. Now,
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  Speaker 2: Garnett modified the dates, with the start of jury selection
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  Speaker 2: of the federal case beginning October fifth, that's roughly a
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  Speaker 2: month after Mangione's state start date. Opening statements in the
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  Speaker 2: federal case now scheduled for October twenty sixth or November two.
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  Speaker 3: Masked gunman shoots dead the United Healthcare CEO in Midtown Manhattan,
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  Speaker 3: and urgent search ensues for the suspect. Last scene entering Central.
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  Speaker 1: Park, marriage secrets being revealed as this health boss worth
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  Speaker 1: millions of dollars is gunned down and open around the public.
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  Speaker 1: What do we make of clues left behind? Cryptic and
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  Speaker 1: odd clues? For instance, bullets found actually have been inscribed
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  Speaker 1: with letters on them. A cell phone had been left behind.
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  Speaker 1: Is there DNA on a water bottle? Was this a pro?
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  Speaker 1: A silencer was used and in the middle of the assassination,
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  Speaker 1: the gun jams and seemingly the pro shooter simply adjusted
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  Speaker 1: and continued firing. Everyone. Thank you for being with us.
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  Speaker 1: If this can happen in public, what are we to
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  Speaker 1: think of it well, take a listen to what the
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  Speaker 1: Chief of Detectives has to say.
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  Speaker 4: This morning, at six forty six am, patrol offices from
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  Speaker 4: Midtown North Preestinct responded to a nine to one one
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  Speaker 4: call of a person shot in front of the Hilton
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  Speaker 4: Hotel located at thirteen thirty five Avenue of the Americas.
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  Speaker 4: This is between West fifty third Street and West fifty
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  Speaker 4: fourth Street. At six forty eight am, officers arrive and
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  Speaker 4: find the victim, Brian R.
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  Speaker 1: Thompson, a fifty.
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  Speaker 4: Year old male, on the sidewalk in front of the Hilton,
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  Speaker 4: with gunshot wounds to his back and leg.
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  Speaker 1: You know, the way the sheeter handled the weapon, the
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  Speaker 1: use of a silencer, the mask, the lying in wait
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  Speaker 1: all indicates a professional hit. But a pro wouldn't want
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  Speaker 1: to be caught. A pro would do everything not to
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  Speaker 1: get caught. So then why we're there, especially in graved
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  Speaker 1: bullets with cryptic messages on them. Mm mmmm, it sounds
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  Speaker 1: like a fifth grade girl riding a crime thriller. Something's
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  Speaker 1: way off with this joining me and All Star panel
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  Speaker 1: to make sense of what we know right now, but
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  Speaker 1: for a straight out to investigative reporter Lauren Colin joining
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  Speaker 1: us co host Primetime Crime on YouTube and you can
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  Speaker 1: find her at popcrime dot tv. Who has gone to
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  Speaker 1: the same and investigated Lauren. What can you tell us, Yes.
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  Speaker 5: Nancy, on the street, the entire street of West fifty
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  Speaker 5: third Street was blocked off. There was plane clothes detectives
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  Speaker 5: as well as uniformed officers basically not saying anything. I
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  Speaker 5: asked questions. I asked witnesses if they heard anything, and
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  Speaker 5: the parking lot attendants were actually there earlier that morning,
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  Speaker 5: but they said, you know, due to the silencer, they
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  Speaker 5: didn't hear anything.
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  Speaker 1: Tell me your understanding, what you learned of what happened,
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  Speaker 1: Starting at the beginning.
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  Speaker 5: Starting at the beginning, I learned that Brian Thompson arrived
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  Speaker 5: in New York Monday. Now he was not staying at
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  Speaker 5: the Hilton. He was staying at a hotel across the street.
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  Speaker 5: He was set to speak at eight am at their
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  Speaker 5: annual investors conference, and he was arriving early at six
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  Speaker 5: forty five. So as he walked into the entrance of
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  Speaker 5: the Hilton, it was revealed by NYPD that this gunman
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  Speaker 5: was allegedly lying in wait before he shot him.
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  Speaker 1: Take a listen to Chief detective Joe Kenny.
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  Speaker 4: Mister Thompson was removed by ems or Roosevelt Hospital, where
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  Speaker 4: he was pronounced dead at seven twelve am. Mister Thompson
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  Speaker 4: is the CEO of United Healthcare and resides in Minnesota.
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  Speaker 4: Detectives from Nightwatch, Midtown North Detective Squad, and Manhattan South
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  Speaker 4: Homicad responded to the scene and began their investigation.
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  Speaker 1: We're learning a lot. I want to go straight out
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  Speaker 1: to Bill Daily joining us from New York, former FBI investigator,
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  Speaker 1: friends at photography, international security expert. Bill, thank you for
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  Speaker 1: being with us. You see the video steals we're showing.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know that a pro would have done this
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  Speaker 1: right in front of a surveillance video.
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  Speaker 6: Well, exactly right, Nancy. Is that you know people throw
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  Speaker 6: on this thing about you know professional hitmen? I mean
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  Speaker 6: those are those are out of the movies. I mean
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  Speaker 6: this this could be somebody who trained, who thought it out. Well,
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  Speaker 6: obviously he's done a lot of reconnaissance and research, but
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  Speaker 6: we're talking about professional hit people. That's something made in
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  Speaker 6: the movies. I would say, Nancy, a couple of things.
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  Speaker 6: I'm quite familiar with this area, being a New Yorker
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  Speaker 6: and having worked on the streets of New York for
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  Speaker 6: quite a number of years. Is that this is actually
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  Speaker 6: the side entrance Missus Thompson was apparently staying around the corner.
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  Speaker 6: We believe that they marry a hotel, which actually gave
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  Speaker 6: him a couple of avenues of approach to the hotel.
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  Speaker 6: This is the side interests the managers on sixth Avenue.
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  Speaker 6: So for this gunman to know that he was going
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  Speaker 6: to be coming down the side street at this time
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  Speaker 6: suggested to me there was some other reconnaissance inside information
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  Speaker 6: that he he knew that he was at another hotel.
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  Speaker 6: He wasn't saying at the Hilton that he'd be coming
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  Speaker 6: down this street. Tompson could have easy walked around seventh Avenue,
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  Speaker 6: come down fifty fifth Street or another street he grab
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  Speaker 6: a cup of coffee, but he didn't.
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  Speaker 1: And so there are a couple of.
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  Speaker 6: Things out here that kind of jump out to me
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  Speaker 6: that are really concerning with your gud to how much
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  Speaker 6: information was known about the specific movements of mister Thompson
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  Speaker 6: that morning.
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  Speaker 1: Bill Day, I know exactly what you mean about that location,
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  Speaker 1: But wouldn't it have been easy for the per the
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  Speaker 1: killer to be waiting in the lobby waiting for the victim,
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  Speaker 1: Brian Thompson to walk out. He didn't have to be
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  Speaker 1: lying in wait at that side entrance. He could have
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  Speaker 1: simply followed him. He did come up behind him.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, there are a couple of things here
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  Speaker 6: in Nancy, that is true. And in fact, if he
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  Speaker 6: knew if he was going to be speaking of the conference,
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  Speaker 6: he didn't even have to be waiting outside. He could
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  Speaker 6: have done it just in the lobby upstairs, in an
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  Speaker 6: elevator or some other other place where he knew there
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  Speaker 6: was kind of a kind of cool chow point where
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  Speaker 6: he would have had to travel through in order to
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  Speaker 6: get to the conference.
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  Speaker 1: The other thing is that which.
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  Speaker 6: Kind of points to something more someone from the area
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  Speaker 6: or from the region, is the fact that missus Simpson
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  Speaker 6: lives out in Minnesota. The day to day he comes
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  Speaker 6: to and from work, he comes to and from his home,
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  Speaker 6: he goes, perhaps to see maybe his children's sporting events,
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  Speaker 6: who knows what. But those are kind of open areas,
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  Speaker 6: other areas where he could have been a target. But
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  Speaker 6: yet this was done in New York City, where he
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  Speaker 6: doesn't live, where he was visiting, where this person would
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  Speaker 6: have only had a couple of days, opportunity for any
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  Speaker 6: kind of reconnaissance and kind of staging this event. And
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  Speaker 6: so it kind of leads me to suggest that this
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  Speaker 6: person shows New York either because it's more difficult. You
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  Speaker 6: can get lost in the city, you can do things
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  Speaker 6: like this. It could disappear into Central Park and perhaps
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  Speaker 6: try to hide your trails, you know, or it was
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  Speaker 6: a matter of convenience that the person was in and
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  Speaker 6: around the area and didn't have to travel to Minnesota.
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  Speaker 1: You're right. The victim in town to speak at an
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  Speaker 1: investor conference.
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  Speaker 7: Listen, the victim was in New York City to speak
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  Speaker 7: at an investor conference. It appears a suspect was lying
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  Speaker 7: in wait for several minutes, and as the victim was
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  Speaker 7: walking to the conference hotel, the suspect approached from behind
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  Speaker 7: fired several rounds, striking the victim at least once in
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  Speaker 7: the back and at least once in the right calf.
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  Speaker 7: Many people passed the suspect, but he appeared to wait
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  Speaker 7: for his intended target.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it's clearly targeted, Bill Daily. There is no robbery,
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  Speaker 1: there is no carjacking, there is no sex attack, so
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  Speaker 1: it's targeted. Can we look at the photo of the
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  Speaker 1: suspect's face. Now we keep hearing we don't know much
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  Speaker 1: about him, but I can tell you right now he's white.
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  Speaker 1: Number one. He knows enough to cover his face, but
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  Speaker 1: I see that he is not wearing gloves. To Lauren Colin,
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  Speaker 1: what can you tell me about a discarded water bottle?
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  Speaker 5: The discarded water bottle, Nancy, was found in the alleyway,
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  Speaker 5: which is between fifty third and fifty fourth Street. It's
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  Speaker 5: the big Field Ballroom alleyway.
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  Speaker 1: A pro would not leave behind a water bottle. A
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  Speaker 1: pro wouldn't even be drinking anything right before you murder somebody.
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  Speaker 6: Exactly right, And N see and go to my suggestion,
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  Speaker 6: this person again kind of orchestrated this pre planned it.
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  Speaker 1: I thought it out.
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  Speaker 6: You speak about perhaps the weapon a little bit later on,
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  Speaker 6: all these things tying to somebody who is knowledgeable about
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  Speaker 6: only what they were doing, but certainly not a professional.
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  Speaker 6: That's somebody we might see kind of portrayed.
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  Speaker 8: In the movies.
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  Speaker 6: These people would be much more subroser about their efforts,
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  Speaker 6: would kind of not be seen beforehand. And I'm going
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  Speaker 6: to suggest to you is that besides this video and
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  Speaker 6: these images we have now as that police are looking
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  Speaker 6: to kind of put together both the timeline and his trail.
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  Speaker 6: There'll be some more coming out and we'll we'll have
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  Speaker 6: some more facial images. Perhaps the DNA may help, but
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  Speaker 6: as we all know, working these cases, because you need
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  Speaker 6: to have something to compare it to, you need to
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  Speaker 6: have some database to compared to, or using ancestral DNA,
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  Speaker 6: perhaps tie this person back to someone else and work
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  Speaker 6: through that angle. So even though we have all these
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  Speaker 6: things and who who knows, maybe fragmented fingerprints on the
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  Speaker 6: bullet casings or other evidence left behind, but again you
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  Speaker 6: need something to compare it to.
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  Speaker 4: What we know is that the shooter arrived at the
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  Speaker 4: location on foot about five minutes prior to the victim's arrival.
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  Speaker 4: He stands alongside the building line as numerous other people
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  Speaker 4: and pedestrians pass him by. From video, we see at
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  Speaker 4: six forty four am, the victim is walking alone towards
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  Speaker 4: the Hilton at the exiting his hotel across the street.
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  Speaker 4: We believe the victim was headed to the Hilton hotel
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  Speaker 4: to attend the United Health Group investors conference that was
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  Speaker 4: scheduled to start at eight am.
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  Speaker 1: Let me look at that stance one more time, where
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  Speaker 1: the shooter is pointing, pointing the gun at the victim.
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  Speaker 1: You know, everybody on the panel jump in, but Bill
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  Speaker 1: Danley look at that. It looks like someone has been
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  Speaker 1: watching too many movies and they think that's a professional
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  Speaker 1: killer stance. You see that right there. I'm just telling you. Look,
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  Speaker 1: he doesn't have on gloves. He's been hanging out, drinking
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  Speaker 1: from a water bottle that he leaves behind. I also
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  Speaker 1: understand a cell phone has been left behind. And then
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  Speaker 1: he gets on a city bike. It reminds me of
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  Speaker 1: a bank robbery are prosecuted, where the purp had a
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  Speaker 1: bike waiting around the corner. He was anything but a
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  Speaker 1: pro and he pedaled off just like this guy is doing.
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  Speaker 1: What do you make of that?
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  Speaker 6: Bial Yeah, all these things kind of add up to
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  Speaker 6: the fact that this person again gave some thought. But
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  Speaker 6: yet about quote professional. I mean, we really don't have
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  Speaker 6: these kind of quote professional hitmen throughout the country. Maybe
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  Speaker 6: the mafia does, but we're not talking about people knocking
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  Speaker 6: off executives. This doesn't happen in the United States. Perhaps
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  Speaker 6: overseas and perhaps a concern when people travel the high
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  Speaker 6: risk locations, but certainly not in New York City. But
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  Speaker 6: I'd probably tell you is that both that stands is
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  Speaker 6: kind of a suggestion that the person thought they knew
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  Speaker 6: what they were doing, but also the fact that this
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  Speaker 6: gun jam, the jam several times currently right at each shot.
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  Speaker 6: According to police, they believe that it jammed maybe because
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  Speaker 6: there was a silencer on the front, a silencer that
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  Speaker 6: perhaps caused the jam to occur. But he did clear
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  Speaker 6: it very quickly and efficiently, So he's somebody who did
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  Speaker 6: do some practice training with that weapon beforehand.
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  Speaker 1: Well, well, Lauren Colin, the gun jammed more than once.
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  Speaker 5: Apparently it jammed between shots, but you know that didn't
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  Speaker 5: stop him, so he kept shooting after he saw.
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  Speaker 1: The answer is yes, Okay, that's telling me a lot
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  Speaker 1: right there. Daily, daily, daily, A pro is going to
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  Speaker 1: take a gun that jams between every shot? Really?
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, Well, I'm going to say of the forensic guess
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  Speaker 6: versus that by using that silence, and again, silencers are
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  Speaker 6: nothings that you were supposed to legally have, so if
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  Speaker 6: it was homemade, it could have caused more of this
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  Speaker 6: kind of malfunction of the weapon. But again, it did
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  Speaker 6: seem as though calmly he cleared that weapon. He was
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  Speaker 6: able to pull a slide on.
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  Speaker 1: The top daily did you say homemade? Look, this is
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  Speaker 1: a whoo, this is melon. This is not a pro
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  Speaker 1: I don't even know where that came from.
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  Speaker 9: A homemade silencede silencer. But come on, man, a homemade
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  Speaker 9: silencer that doesn't work, A pretend professional killer stance, drinking
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  Speaker 9: a water bottle and leaving it behind and hopping on
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  Speaker 9: a bike without gloves and taking off.
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  Speaker 1: No, no, uh uh, I gotta figure this thing out, guys.
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  Speaker 1: Why was a health ceo worth millions of dollars gunned
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  Speaker 1: down in public? Early early morning? Many people saying it's
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  Speaker 1: a pro killer.
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  Speaker 4: The shoot it then flees on foot northbound into an
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  Speaker 4: alleyway between fifty fourth Street and fifty fifth Street. Once
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  Speaker 4: at West fifty fifth Street to shoot it continues to
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  Speaker 4: walk westbound on the Avenue in Americas, where he gets
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  Speaker 4: onto an electric e city bike and rides northbound on
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  Speaker 4: the Avenue Americas towards Central Park. At six forty eight am,
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  Speaker 4: we have the shooter riding this bike into Central Park
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  Speaker 4: at Scent and Drive. We're still tracking video if the
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  Speaker 4: last we see with him on that bike is in
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  Speaker 4: Central Park at the scene, we recover three live nine
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  Speaker 4: milimeters rounds and three discharged nine milimeters shell casings. The
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: motor for this murder currently is unknown, but based on
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: the evidence we have so far, it does appear that
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: the victim was specifically targeted. But at this point we
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  Speaker 4: do not know why. This does not appear to be
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  Speaker 4: a random act of violence.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, I know that I know it's not random. Joining
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  Speaker 1: me high profile lawyer BERNARDA. Vielona, New York criminal defense attorney.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: This is her beat. She is also a former prosecutor. BERNARDA.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. What do you make
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  Speaker 1: of it so far? Because not only did the pro
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  Speaker 1: assassin lead behind three discharged nine millimeterre shell casings, they
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  Speaker 1: were engraved with three cryptic words. I mean, it's straight
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  Speaker 1: out of a crime novel and another saying BERNARDA. Anybody
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  Speaker 1: that knows how to type goog l E can find
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  Speaker 1: out this guy was speaking where and at what time? Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: but I.
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  Speaker 10: Still think there's an inside job because in the sense
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  Speaker 10: of they could have known where he was speaking, but
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  Speaker 10: they wouldn't have known exactly what time he would have
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  Speaker 10: been leaving out of his hotel because remember, this shooter
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  Speaker 10: had only been waiting about five minutes, so he had
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  Speaker 10: to have had some kind of inside information to know
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  Speaker 10: the exact time that Brian Thompson would have been leaving
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  Speaker 10: his hotel.
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  Speaker 1: Look, all of this looks very shady.
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  Speaker 11: I don't think it's a professional kill at all, because
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  Speaker 11: number one, believing of the showcases and the bullets there,
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  Speaker 11: and then jumping on a bike. I think there's a
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  Speaker 11: lot more to this. I don't see that there's going
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  Speaker 11: to be an arrest anytime soon, though.
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  Speaker 1: Hold on just a moment on that Daily Bill Daily
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  Speaker 1: with me former FBI investigator and joining us from New York,
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  Speaker 1: intimately familiar with the ins and outs the alleyways where
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  Speaker 1: this happened. The guy then goes to Central Park. That
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  Speaker 1: was a pretty good move, and it's not that far
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  Speaker 1: from where the shooting was by bike. But he goes
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  Speaker 1: into Central Park, which is blanketed with surveillance videos, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: and we can follow his trail. He had to ditch
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  Speaker 1: the bike somewhere. I think that we're going to find
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  Speaker 1: out where he leaves the bike. And again no gloves.
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  Speaker 1: As you said earlier, of course you got to have
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  Speaker 1: something to compare it to. If he's not in the
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: DNA or the aphist database. We don't have anything to
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: match it too. But that said, can we just agree
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: this is not.
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: A pro Yeah, I surely agree it's not a pro.
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: I also think that there's a there are probably kind
• 18:48
  Speaker 6: of breadcrumbs left behind, is that you know if this
• 18:51
  Speaker 6: was connected with either the business because of see that
• 18:55
  Speaker 6: either of the had been a customer who was surely
• 18:59
  Speaker 6: told you upset and obsessed with this individual, or perhaps
• 19:02
  Speaker 6: a former employee. That could have been a number of things.
• 19:05
  Speaker 6: But I think there you have to go back and
• 19:07
  Speaker 6: start looking at with their threats against the company. Apparently
• 19:09
  Speaker 6: according to the victim's wife there were, and if there were,
• 19:13
  Speaker 6: who was making those and what was the step with
• 19:17
  Speaker 6: what you're just saying?
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Bill Daily, Lauren Conlin. Now, according to one person, there
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: have been threats on the victim's life, and that is
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: his wife. Were those threats ever reported to LA law enforcement? Nancy?
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: Those threats were never reported to law enforcement?
• 19:37
  Speaker 12: With me?
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Also is Scott Iiker founding member. I can't say this
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: enough of the FBI's Cellular Analysis Survey team. Can I
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: just say he didn't just fall off the turnip truck? People? Iiker?
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: If I was going to pick him off. I would
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: go somewhere with a silencer and wait out in the
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: middle of nowhere, right his body lay there for three
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: or four hours before anybody figures anything out. So why
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: intentionally find him in New York City?
• 20:08
  Speaker 13: I agree, there's a lot of other places that you
• 20:10
  Speaker 13: could have done this murder, but there's a lot of
• 20:13
  Speaker 13: benefits of doing it in a crowded city also. I mean,
• 20:16
  Speaker 13: if you think about it, you might be able to
• 20:18
  Speaker 13: mix in with the regular people walking to and from work,
• 20:21
  Speaker 13: cars and everything like that. He didn't think about all
• 20:24
  Speaker 13: the cameras in the area. He didn't think about all
• 20:27
  Speaker 13: the people that might see at different things. And obviously
• 20:30
  Speaker 13: I agree with the other gentleman that says I don't
• 20:33
  Speaker 13: think this guy is a professional. I do think he
• 20:36
  Speaker 13: has some training. I mean, I was on the FBI
• 20:38
  Speaker 13: SWAT team. I shot twice a week, and I can
• 20:42
  Speaker 13: see that type of stance that he had some training
• 20:45
  Speaker 13: for him to do that malfunction. Clear clear that gone
• 20:49
  Speaker 13: shoot again, clear it clear it. That takes training in time.
• 20:53
  Speaker 13: So I think, at least in my mind, he's made
• 20:57
  Speaker 13: a lot of mistakes, but I don't think he's a professional.
• 21:00
  Speaker 13: Agree with that but he has had some train and.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: We're learning more from Chief of Detectives Joe Kenney.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: From speaking to other employees that traveled with him to
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: New York. Doesn't seem that he had these security detail.
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: He left the hotel by himself, was walking, didn't seem
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: like he had any issues at all. So I don't
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: think he did not have a security detail.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Lauren Conlin correct me if I'm wrong. But wasn't there
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: just a firefighter's pension fund that sued the victim because
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: he dumped about thirty one percent of his stock made
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: fifteen million dollars just before everything went south, right, and
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: there's a complaint about that. Yes, that's happening. The wife says,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: there's death threats. He's worth millions of dollars and he
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: doesn't have security detail.
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: Yes, his net worth is forty three million dollars, Nancy.
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: And not only that, I found a plethora of lawsuits.
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: He was accused of creating an algorithm to deny patients' coverage.
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: So I found quite a few lawsuits there. And then additionally,
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: there was a data breach a few I believe it
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: was February of twenty twenty four, where many many people
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: were at risk and not.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Happy crime stories with Nancy Grace, Delay, delay, Delay, A
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: defense attorney's best friend, Luigi Mangioni's lawyers insisting Judge Garnett
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: delay his federal trial so they have an opportunity to
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: demand the same thing of the state trial. Judge Gregory
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Caro insisting it's just too complicated. Well, then don't gun
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: anybody down in broad daylight on the sidewalk in Manhattan.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: That's my advice to you, Mangioni. That said, back to
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: what really mattered the death of the victim. Listen to this.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: It's just like a fifth grade girl writes an action
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: thriller or tries to listen.
• 23:09
  Speaker 14: Please have released a new chilling detail in the assassination
• 23:12
  Speaker 14: style shooting. Three live rounds and three shellcasings recovered from
• 23:16
  Speaker 14: the crime scene, and cops are now saying there are
• 23:19
  Speaker 14: inscriptions on the shellcasings. The words deny, defend, and depose
• 23:24
  Speaker 14: were engraved on the bullets.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: So the words deny, defend, and depose were engraved on
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: the bullets. By who the local jeweler joining me right
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: now is a ballistics expert, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: and star of a hit series Body Bags. That Joe
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Scott Morgan Joe Scott really okay, I can't hammer this
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: enough a pro What did they write it in? Fancy
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: cursive deny, defend, depose That sounds like the ransom note
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: left behind in John Benay a small foreign faction once
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars would stop.
• 24:09
  Speaker 12: What's really fascinating about this, Nancy is the fact that
• 24:12
  Speaker 12: they've got three spent casings that are on the ground,
• 24:14
  Speaker 12: and then they have the three live rounds, and he's
• 24:18
  Speaker 12: having to try to clear this weapon because he's had
• 24:20
  Speaker 12: a malfunction, which actually does occur with some frequency when
• 24:26
  Speaker 12: you have a suppressed weapon. And the fact that he
• 24:31
  Speaker 12: had engraving and I keep hearing this term, this engraving
• 24:35
  Speaker 12: that was on these casing, the fact that he had
• 24:42
  Speaker 12: a jam in the weapon, I would think that it
• 24:46
  Speaker 12: would be engraved on all of the rounds. So how
• 24:48
  Speaker 12: can you plan for that, For instance, that these rounds
• 24:51
  Speaker 12: are stacked, which they would be in a magazine, and
• 24:56
  Speaker 12: every time he clears it, he's going to eject a
• 24:59
  Speaker 12: live round as opposed to those that were spent when
• 25:02
  Speaker 12: he was firing. If you watch the sequence from a video,
• 25:06
  Speaker 12: he fires once and then it looks like he clears,
• 25:09
  Speaker 12: but he may have actually cleared two rounds at that
• 25:12
  Speaker 12: point in time that we're still live because the weapon
• 25:15
  Speaker 12: is jamming on him and he has to cycle through it,
• 25:18
  Speaker 12: so he's taken a lot of time. My suspicion is
• 25:22
  Speaker 12: it might be there might be engraving on all of
• 25:24
  Speaker 12: the rounds, and that he has taken a lot of
• 25:27
  Speaker 12: time somewhere, probably you know, at home or wherever it is.
• 25:31
  Speaker 12: He shows up prepared to a certain degree, although he
• 25:34
  Speaker 12: didn't wear gloves and he didn't fully mask his face.
• 25:38
  Speaker 12: There's a lot still to kind of untangle here. But
• 25:41
  Speaker 12: that point is certainly fascinating. I've never encountered this before
• 25:46
  Speaker 12: in my years in forensics to this degree. Now, you know,
• 25:50
  Speaker 12: Hollywood makes a big deal out of this kind of thing,
• 25:52
  Speaker 12: but it's just not something you commonly run into. My
• 25:56
  Speaker 12: question is what's the skill level of the engraving In
• 26:00
  Speaker 12: addition to attempting to define how this was engraved, what
• 26:06
  Speaker 12: instrumentality was used, and then maybe the folks will be
• 26:10
  Speaker 12: able to pick up on some form in his writing
• 26:12
  Speaker 12: if he's doing this freehead.
• 26:14
  Speaker 14: Brian Thompson's wife Paulette tells NBC News that Brian has
• 26:17
  Speaker 14: been receiving death threats. She doesn't go into detail, saying
• 26:20
  Speaker 14: it was basically due to a lack of coverage. She
• 26:23
  Speaker 14: doesn't know exactly, but Brian said there were some people
• 26:26
  Speaker 14: that had been threatening him.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Straight back out to Joe Scott Morgan joining us. Jo Scott,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: if I said earlier, if there was a death thought
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: on my husband a I wouldn't let him travel alone
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: to New York. I would at least go with him
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: at the very least. But that said, they have children
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: to take care of back at home. But no security detail,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: no police reports, nothing, And she is the only one
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: coming forward with the alleged threats. If they weren't reported
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: to police, can anyone within the company verify this ever happened?
• 27:00
  Speaker 12: Well, if he hasn't spoken of this to anybody that's
• 27:02
  Speaker 12: around him, but why would he not, you know, say
• 27:06
  Speaker 12: something about this. And let me tell you one more thing.
• 27:09
  Speaker 12: A guy that is in his atmosphere. You know, we
• 27:11
  Speaker 12: see all these celebrity so called celebrities that are out
• 27:13
  Speaker 12: there that have these, you know, security details with it.
• 27:17
  Speaker 12: This is a guy, Nancy that actually has a level
• 27:21
  Speaker 12: of value and would heighten anybody's since it's relative to
• 27:28
  Speaker 12: the danger he could potentially be in. Why wouldn't you
• 27:31
  Speaker 12: put a couple of people on him to check the
• 27:33
  Speaker 12: wout at least to be body people that are going
• 27:36
  Speaker 12: to score him around. Maybe he didn't want that. I
• 27:39
  Speaker 12: have no idea, but I do know that he's a
• 27:41
  Speaker 12: prime target. It's just fascinating to me that they chose
• 27:44
  Speaker 12: this particular location, this individual went about it in this
• 27:48
  Speaker 12: manner because I agree with all of the other panelists.
• 27:51
  Speaker 12: I think this guy has some weapons familiarity, but he
• 27:54
  Speaker 12: is in no way a pro. If he had been
• 27:56
  Speaker 12: a pro, we would not have seen the video last
• 27:59
  Speaker 12: that long.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Hey hey, Scott, if you're sitting down, you may need
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: to lay down for what you're about to hear. Take
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: a listen.
• 28:07
  Speaker 14: The suspect was reportedly spoted outside a public housing project
• 28:10
  Speaker 14: roughly three miles from the crime scene at five am,
• 28:12
  Speaker 14: carrying what looked like an e bike battery. He's then
• 28:15
  Speaker 14: seen again checking out at Starbucks not far from the
• 28:18
  Speaker 14: Hilton in just minutes before the attack. It's unclear what
• 28:21
  Speaker 14: exactly the suspect purchased, but police believe a water bottle
• 28:24
  Speaker 14: and candy wrapper left at the crime scene may belong
• 28:27
  Speaker 14: to the shooter and are testing the items for latent
• 28:29
  Speaker 14: fingerprints and DNA.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: The next thing we're going to hear, Lauren Colin, is
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: that the shooter used a credit card. I mean he
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: hung out at a Starbucks just before the shooting, and
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: of course places himself at a public housing project. Yeah,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: that's right. Blame the people of the housing project somehow
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: drag that into it. I guarantee you that was orchestrated
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: three miles from the scene with what looked to be
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: carrying an e bike battery in cases e bike crapped
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: out on him. Now, at first, this is reported to
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: be a city bike, the kind that are easily accessed
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: all around New York City. Now we're hearing it may
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: not be a city bike. That said, then he's at
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Starbucks just beside the Hilton minutes before the attack, staring
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: straight into the surveillance cameras. So there's not just a
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: water bottle. He leaves behind a candy wrapper. Somebody needs
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: a bit of honey, somebody wants to starbus before a murder.
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: Yes, and there also have been reports that NYPD believes
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: that he may have actually taken this subway from the
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: Upper west Side to Midtown and to that Starbucks.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Wait, then, if he was on the Upper west Side,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: then he's spotted at a housing project. There's not a
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: housing project on the Upper west Side. Okay, that's where
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: all the rich people live. They look down on Central Park,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: there's not a housing project there. So does he leave
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: the Upper West to go to a housing project to
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: be spotted and then go to the Starbucks.
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: Well, that's what police are trying to figure out, and
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: I didn't. Well, I'm hoping that he did take the
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: subway because Mayor Eric Adams did implement more cameras earlier
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: this year.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, I got a lot of surveillance on this guy,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: but you're right, subway would help me figure out where
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: he's coming from, where he's going, and how he knows
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: those paths. I'm still flummoxed by the fact that he
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: would leave alf water bottle with his DNA on it,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: a candy wrapper, take a bike, no gloves, has a
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: pretend pro shooter stance, and has engraved bullets for Pete's sake,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: why not just throw down your driver's license before you leave? Okay,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: now we hear about a potential eyewitness that goes on
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: the run.
• 30:48
  Speaker 14: Police still have not identified the eyewitness who ran from
• 30:50
  Speaker 14: the scene as Thompson was gunned down. A woman dressed
• 30:53
  Speaker 14: in dark clothing and holding a coffee cup was standing
• 30:55
  Speaker 14: in a doorway just feet away from Thompson when the
• 30:57
  Speaker 14: shooter opened fire. She runs along the building toward the
• 31:00
  Speaker 14: shooter to avoid the gunfire and disappears from frame. Authorities
• 31:03
  Speaker 14: are asking her to come forward, hoping she may be
• 31:06
  Speaker 14: able to provide new details on the shooter.
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: As a cell phone recovered in the alleyway. We're working
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: through that cell phone. Obviously, we'll be processing it forensically
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: as far as words be in exchanged. We do not
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: have audio of the incident. We only have the regular
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: video nothing. Nothing for well, there was one witness standing
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: right next to the victim when he was shot.
• 31:23
  Speaker 15: In a stunning federal court SmackDown that has sent shock
• 31:26
  Speaker 15: waves through the Department of Justice, the Ivy League educated
• 31:31
  Speaker 15: tech worker accused of executing United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson
• 31:36
  Speaker 15: has officially escaped the threat of the death penalty. US
• 31:42
  Speaker 15: District Judge Margaret Garnett delivered the massive blow to federal
• 31:46
  Speaker 15: prosecutors Friday, gutting the capital charges against twenty seven year
• 31:51
  Speaker 15: old Luigi Mangioni, just minutes before he appeared in a
• 31:55
  Speaker 15: Manhattan courtroom. His attorney, Karen agniffilo the decision and spoke
• 32:01
  Speaker 15: to reporters outside the courthouse.
• 32:04
  Speaker 16: Just wanted to thank the court for this incredible decision.
• 32:09
  Speaker 16: We want to thank this amazing legal team that we
• 32:11
  Speaker 16: have here. It's really wonderful, all of them, and thank
• 32:16
  Speaker 16: all the people who come out stand here in the cold,
• 32:19
  Speaker 16: and the people who can't come here. All the supporters.
• 32:21
  Speaker 16: We get your letters, we get your emails, and we
• 32:24
  Speaker 16: really appreciate all the support.
• 32:26
  Speaker 12: Karen, what was mister Mantioni's reaction when you learned the
• 32:29
  Speaker 12: death penalty was off the table.
• 32:30
  Speaker 16: We're all very relieved.
• 32:32
  Speaker 15: The decision effectively newters Attorney General Pam Bonnie's push for
• 32:36
  Speaker 15: execution in a case the government branded a quote premeditated
• 32:41
  Speaker 15: cold blooded assassination end quote. Judge Garnett dismissed two counts
• 32:46
  Speaker 15: of murder through use of a firearm, ruling that the
• 32:50
  Speaker 15: underlying charge of interstate stalking does not meet the strict
• 32:56
  Speaker 15: legal definition of a prime of violence required to support
• 33:00
  Speaker 15: a capital conviction. While Garnet acknowledged the ruling might strike
• 33:04
  Speaker 15: the public as quote unquote tortured and strange given the
• 33:08
  Speaker 15: high profile nature of the slang, she insisted that quote
• 33:12
  Speaker 15: the law must be the court's only concern end quote. Mangioni,
• 33:17
  Speaker 15: dressed in tanjail scrubs and shackled at the feet, showed
• 33:21
  Speaker 15: little emotion as the execution bid was dismantled. However, the
• 33:27
  Speaker 15: ruling was not a total wash for the government. In
• 33:30
  Speaker 15: a critical win for the FEDS, the judge shot down
• 33:33
  Speaker 15: claims that a bungled investigation tainted the arrest. Garnett ruled
• 33:38
  Speaker 15: the mountain of evidence pulled from Mangioni's backpack, including the
• 33:43
  Speaker 15: three D pinted pistol, a loaded clip, and a macabre
• 33:47
  Speaker 15: so called survival kit, is fully admissible at trial. Prosecutors
• 33:53
  Speaker 15: can also use the defendant's own notebook, which allegedly contained
• 33:57
  Speaker 15: a chilling manifesto and plans to quote unquote whack the
• 34:01
  Speaker 15: insurance big wig. The search was deemed legal under Pennsylvania's
• 34:06
  Speaker 15: inventory protocols, despite Mangioni's defense team arguing the warrantless search
• 34:11
  Speaker 15: was a quote unquote legal quagmire. While federal prosecutors have
• 34:16
  Speaker 15: yet to announce an appeal, Mangioni's federal trial is now
• 34:19
  Speaker 15: tentatively set for September eighth. He remains held without bail
• 34:23
  Speaker 15: at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, now facing a
• 34:27
  Speaker 15: maximum of life behind bars rather than a date with
• 34:31
  Speaker 15: the needle. Meanwhile, the Manhattan DA is still aggressively pushing
• 34:36
  Speaker 15: for a state murder trial.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: You heard right, Luigi Mangioni, as of right now will
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: not face the death penalty. Judge Margaret Garnett ruled against
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: prosecutors seeking the death penalty, and word to the wise
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: prosecution team, you need to take the judge's ruling up
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: on immediate appeal. I've done it myself when I got
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: a bad evidentiary ruling at trial, I would say, Judge,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: we need a recess. I'm taking this up on immediate appeal,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: which means I would have somebody in the appellate division
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: type out an appeal of the judge's bad ruling and
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: walk it right up the street to the Court of Appeals.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: It's like three blocks. I would not take that lying down,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: not with facts like these. What happened to Brian Thompson?
• 35:32
  Speaker 17: Now, one, what is the address of your emergency? That's
• 35:35
  Speaker 17: really an emergency.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: I just I have a customer here that some other
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: customers were suspicious of that.
• 35:42
  Speaker 13: He looks like the CEO shooter from New York.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, straight out to Killa Brantley joining US investigative reporter
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: at large dailymail dot com. Did they actually say in
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: court that their client, Luigimnioni, is the victim because his
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: quote beautiful, promising life has been derailed.
• 36:05
  Speaker 18: Yeah, Nancy. As you mentioned, his team did paint him
• 36:08
  Speaker 18: as someone with a promising future. Now, one thing that
• 36:11
  Speaker 18: had been documented was that Luigi suffered from debilitating back pain.
• 36:16
  Speaker 18: This was something that he went through. He went through
• 36:19
  Speaker 18: back surgery. And one thing that they say here is
• 36:22
  Speaker 18: that the real enemy here is the medical system. And
• 36:26
  Speaker 18: that is one thing that you can definitely expect his
• 36:29
  Speaker 18: legal team, I'll argue.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Kila, can I believe you are my lieon eyes control room?
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Please show me him a running along the beach in Hawaii.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: I've got videos of him lifting up girls and tickling them.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: It's a video They're all giggling hysterically, including him. I've
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: got photos of him lounging by the beach. I'd love
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: to see those photos of him hiking and what looks
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: to be a jungle rainfall. Oh, he is feeling no
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: paying there, Cala Brandtley, I hope you don't fall for
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: that hook line and seeker, Doctor Judy Hoe, did you
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: know that Luigimanngioni is apparently the victim in this scenario?
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Doctor Judy Hoe is joining us clinical forensic neuro psychologist,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: author of the New Rules of Attachment and another bestseller,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: Stop Self Sabotage. You need to write one, Doctor Judy Hoe,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: about try to tell the truth and then send it.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: You know I'll pay for it and we can send
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: it to Luigi Mangioni. He is not the victim here.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: But you know you can't count out the defense attorney Agnafello.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: He got Sean Combs off on the major accusations in
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: that indictment. So no matter how ridiculous I may think
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: he sounds, he essentially won that case. Yes, his defense
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: team that claims Luigi Mangioni is the victim. I want
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: to read it, Doctor Judy Hope, beautiful, promising life derailed
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: by those erasing murder charges. Judy.
• 38:03
  Speaker 19: Wow, beautiful promising life, Nancy, what a narrative. And as
• 38:07
  Speaker 19: you said, even though he's not the victim. I think
• 38:10
  Speaker 19: this is why there has been a fan base though,
• 38:13
  Speaker 19: because there's these individuals who actually believe maybe he is
• 38:16
  Speaker 19: a victim, that he's some type of anti hero, that
• 38:19
  Speaker 19: he's misunderstood. And oftentimes we see this in individuals who
• 38:24
  Speaker 19: might act charismatically, they just seem to pull people in.
• 38:29
  Speaker 19: And it's weird because a lot of these people who
• 38:32
  Speaker 19: develop this sort of fan fanhood around Luigi, they're kind
• 38:37
  Speaker 19: of thinking, well, maybe I can be a special person
• 38:39
  Speaker 19: in his life, maybe he'll pay attention to me. Maybe
• 38:42
  Speaker 19: I can even develop a friendship with this person. This
• 38:45
  Speaker 19: person might learn to trust me. It's really interesting, but
• 38:48
  Speaker 19: some of it actually has to do with a self
• 38:50
  Speaker 19: centeredness of people who might actually talk to him, that
• 38:53
  Speaker 19: they're hoping to get something special out of it for themselves.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, dart to Gidio. I know you're the clinical
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: and forensic neuropsychologist, but I don't even know what you
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: just said. How can the defense stand up and say
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: this is not about the murder victim. Can we show please,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Brian Thompson walking along and he's gunned down in cold blood,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: leaving behind two sons and a wife. That's the victim.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: According to prosecutors, it's Luigi Mangioni holding a three D
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: weapon that he made that it took dozens and dozens
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: of hours to make, so he can gun down a
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: guy walking to work in the back. You stated, I
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: don't know what that was, doctor Judijo. I'm not saying
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: you're wrong. I'm just saying I'm just a trial lawyer
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: didn't understand it. But I think I know some of
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: the people that consider Luigi Mangioni to be the victim.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: And here they are filing in to court. Okay, oh
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: what Luigi fights fascists. Okay, look at this line. Now,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: wait till you see the cat walk parade of sad
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: sack women filing in to They won't even show their
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: face to get a glimpse of Luigi Mangioni. Yes, keep
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: it going, Keep it going, because I've got hours of people. Yeah,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: that was totally walking the cat walk right there, clamoring
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: to get in to just bask in the glow of
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Luigi MANGIONI oh, it keeps going. Yeah, on and on.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: They had to turn women away, and it's not just women. Listen.
• 40:52
  Speaker 20: So this is who police believe was responsible for the
• 40:54
  Speaker 20: United Healthcare ceo PP. His name's Kubigi. All I can
• 40:59
  Speaker 20: say is mama, me, yeah, does he need a Mario?
• 41:03
  Speaker 20: I believe it was a great philosopher and poet once said, Mama,
• 41:06
  Speaker 20: I'm in love with a criminal, and this type of
• 41:09
  Speaker 20: love isn't rational, it's physical. That was Britney Spears, and
• 41:14
  Speaker 20: I believe we're all feeling that right now. I believe
• 41:16
  Speaker 20: if you're going to do superhero like shit, you better
• 41:18
  Speaker 20: look like one. Okay, this man clearly did them. Did
• 41:21
  Speaker 20: he train at the Marvel studios with all the other
• 41:23
  Speaker 20: chriss Okay, because Luigi, that's a spicey meets the bawl.
• 41:27
  Speaker 20: I'm so sorry. I believe if we're going to claim
• 41:29
  Speaker 20: to be a Christian nation, that we need to act
• 41:31
  Speaker 20: like one. And part of acting like that is practicing forgiveness.
• 41:36
  Speaker 20: And after a lot of seconds of thinking, I have
• 41:38
  Speaker 20: decided I'm gonna forgive him. I'm ready to forgive him, right,
• 41:43
  Speaker 20: but not forget because I mean, my God, how could
• 41:46
  Speaker 20: you forget an angel like this. I'm not gonna lie
• 41:48
  Speaker 20: for a while. I thought, oh my god, we're never
• 41:49
  Speaker 20: gonna find him, you know. And I was wrong, because
• 41:52
  Speaker 20: somewhere along the way the ups and downs, the highs
• 41:54
  Speaker 20: and lows, the masks and no masks, this man he
• 41:59
  Speaker 20: found a way into our hearts.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: He did. I hardly even know where to start with that.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: And that is from mister Williams spreck on TikTok. I'm
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: in love with a criminal, and I forgive him after
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: a few seconds of consideration. Doctor Gudy hoe it. I
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: can't say it gets worse, but there's more. Listen, you
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: can't take my mind and say there's blood on his
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: hands when you're the one with the girl who's taking
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: lives for fun, you can't take my man. That's from
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Scarlett Park TikTok. So it's gone beyond calling him a
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: spicy meatball. These people act consider Luigimi Andngioni their man,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: and they are angry with the fans for prosecuting. What
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: have I gone down the rabbit hole? Am I in
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: some crazy bizarre alice in Wonderland? What is happening, Doctor Judy?
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: How I know it?
• 43:19
  Speaker 19: Seems completely unbelievable, Nancy, but this does happen. People start
• 43:23
  Speaker 19: to idolize these potential I mean, clearly this is a defendant, right,
• 43:29
  Speaker 19: but they're thinking, in their minds, this person is innocent,
• 43:32
  Speaker 19: maybe I'm gonna be their special person, and they're lusting
• 43:35
  Speaker 19: after them the way that they would lust after a celebrity,
• 43:38
  Speaker 19: especially when they see photos and videos that they can
• 43:41
  Speaker 19: start cutting into their own social media. They're developing a
• 43:45
  Speaker 19: fictionalized relationship with him, a fantasy and essentially completely erasing
• 43:50
  Speaker 19: all of the facts that have been evident in this case.
• 43:53
  Speaker 19: And clearly the defendant's attorneys are trying to paint that
• 43:55
  Speaker 19: picture as well, leaning into it as hard as possible,
• 43:58
  Speaker 19: because they're hoping to influence the pump opinion even before
• 44:01
  Speaker 19: a jury is selected, so that they can hopefully get
• 44:04
  Speaker 19: him the outcome that he wants, which is apparently to
• 44:08
  Speaker 19: escape a death sentence, escape prison. Maybe I'm not sure
• 44:12
  Speaker 19: exactly what they think is possible, but that's what's so
• 44:15
  Speaker 19: scary about all the positivity that has developed around his
• 44:18
  Speaker 19: persona in terms of all of these illustrations, the website
• 44:22
  Speaker 19: they set up about and it's really concerning.
• 44:24
  Speaker 14: And you know.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: Cheryl mccollumy is joining me. Cold Case Investigative Research Institute founder,
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: author of a brand new book, Swans Don't Swim in
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: a Sewer, Solving the cold case of the Flint River
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Killer's daughter on Amazon. Cheryl, Okay, do you remember the
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: night that you and I were out until two o'clock
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: in the morning staking out a location where we thought
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: Luigi Mangioni was going to be apprehended. Do you remember
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: that night? Because I sure do I do. How has
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: this gotten so bass ackwards, Cheryl Nancy?
• 45:01
  Speaker 17: It is mind boggling that anybody is trying to paint
• 45:05
  Speaker 17: this killer as the victim. I mean, the victim's life
• 45:11
  Speaker 17: was not just promising, It was in full swing. He
• 45:15
  Speaker 17: had a wife and children, and a career at the
• 45:19
  Speaker 17: highest level. He had friends and extended family. He had
• 45:24
  Speaker 17: everything going for him. Mangione had none of that, but
• 45:30
  Speaker 17: he took everything from those children. And I'm going to
• 45:35
  Speaker 17: tell you something, when you look at the people that
• 45:39
  Speaker 17: are contacting him, I hope and pray that those six
• 45:44
  Speaker 17: thousand letters that he's gotten, that one hundred and fifteen
• 45:47
  Speaker 17: a day, that there's some good intel in there too,
• 45:51
  Speaker 17: because he is writing people back, so he's communicating and
• 45:56
  Speaker 17: I hope they're listing every piece of it.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: Somehow this has gotten topsy turvy upside down. I haven't
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: even gotten into the legal implications of what is happening
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: in court. I'm just so concerned that one of these
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: nut jobs is going to end up on the ultimate
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: jury and ac quit Luigi Manngioni under the misconception that
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: he is somehow the victim again in court, his lawyers
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: and I'm quoting, claimed that his beautiful, promising life has
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: been derailed by murder charges. It's all about me, me, me, me,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: me me. This is a millionaire's son, multimillionaire who grew
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: up with silver spoon stuck in his mouth and has
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: been living in a Hawaii high rise on the beach
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: doing nothing, and yet he's the victim. Can you imagine,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, how hard Thompson had to work to get
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: to become the CEO at United Healthcare. It wasn't handed
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: to him on a silver platter on top of a
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Christmas tree like it was Mangioni. He had to work
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: and sacrifice long, long hours to get to where he
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: got to, to be gunned down like a dog on
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: the sidewalk.
• 47:19
  Speaker 17: Cheryl Nancy, you cannot compare these two people. That's why
• 47:23
  Speaker 17: I agree with you. This whole thing is upside down.
• 47:27
  Speaker 17: Not only did the victim work and sacrifice, so did
• 47:31
  Speaker 17: his wife. You know what it takes. You know how
• 47:34
  Speaker 17: long David has gone during the day. It's not an
• 47:37
  Speaker 17: eight hour day. It's a sixteen seventeen hour game. He
• 47:41
  Speaker 17: was playing at the top of his game. There's no
• 47:44
  Speaker 17: doubt about it. Mangione was giving nothing to a family,
• 47:49
  Speaker 17: He was giving nothing to society. He was contributing zero
• 47:55
  Speaker 17: and again, what he took cannot even be measured.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: If I here one more person talk about his back pain,
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: that's you, calib Brantley. I think my head's gonna blow
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: off because I have videos of him tickling these girls
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: and picking them up just before the shooting. But he
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: was feeling no pain. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, the
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: so called healthcare assassin, suspect Luigimi, and Gione now demanding
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: a judge postponed his trial. You know what, Brian Thompson
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: didn't get to postpone a darn thing when he was
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: gunned down on the sidewalk and on another note, the
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: man who allegedly claimed to be an FBI agent demanding
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: Luigimanngoni be released from federal jail is now considering a
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: guilty plea. His lawyer just said, out of hearing, I
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: wonder why maybe because there's like fifty witnesses against him.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: What do we know? Let me go to special guests
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: joining us now, doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angie Arnold, what is that?
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you saw this for yourself, but
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: Mangioni's defensive team is actually arguing his life was derailed
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: by the murder charges.
• 49:26
  Speaker 21: You know, Nancy, My thought is that's all they've got.
• 49:30
  Speaker 21: Who cares if his life was derailed? He is accused
• 49:35
  Speaker 21: of murdering someone. Maybe his life should be derailed. But
• 49:40
  Speaker 21: the way I feel about this is, Nancy, that's all
• 49:42
  Speaker 21: they've got to say. That is the only thing they've got.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the facts and the law.
• 49:49
  Speaker 14: Listen taking orders as she tells the operator, I have
• 49:52
  Speaker 14: a customer here that some other customers were suspicious of that.
• 49:56
  Speaker 14: He looks like the CEO shooter in New York, and
• 49:59
  Speaker 14: they're generally and come to me, and I'm like, I
• 50:01
  Speaker 14: can't approach him. The manager continues working and can be
• 50:05
  Speaker 14: heard talking about bagels, at one point shouting one of
• 50:08
  Speaker 14: them is no better. The nine one one operator, Emily States,
• 50:12
  Speaker 14: testifies about the call and is heard to ask for
• 50:14
  Speaker 14: a description, with the manager replying the only thing you
• 50:17
  Speaker 14: can see is the eyebrows.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: Joining us is Skuy Lazarro. She's a veteran criminal defense attorney.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: She's practiced in both She's practiced in both state and
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: federal court. She is with Ray Quinny and Nebecker.
• 50:30
  Speaker 20: Sky.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. If the defense is
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: arguing that Luigimi and Gioni was illegally arrested, the nine
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: to one one call occurred before the arrest, So what
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: could be the possible grounds for suppressing that call by
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: the McDonald's manager.
• 50:52
  Speaker 8: I think they're going to have a really hard time
• 50:54
  Speaker 8: keeping the nine to one one call out. I can
• 50:56
  Speaker 8: understand it from a defense perspective. You have to try.
• 50:59
  Speaker 8: But when it comes to nine to one one calls,
• 51:01
  Speaker 8: as long as you can lay the foundation for it,
• 51:04
  Speaker 8: it's probably coming in.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: I can tell you one thing I know, Sky Lazarro,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: that they hate about this nine to one one call.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: We had the same thing happen in the Idaho slaghings
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: of four beautiful Idaho University students, where Dylan Mortenson described
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: Brian Coberger's freaky, bushy eyebrows.
• 51:28
  Speaker 8: Listen, just remember seeing this figure that was like not
• 51:32
  Speaker 8: fat obviously, but more of like the skinnier tongue build
• 51:35
  Speaker 8: and some mask on.
• 51:36
  Speaker 21: I don't know what the mask exactly was, but when
• 51:39
  Speaker 21: I thought about it, it was.
• 51:40
  Speaker 20: Just like covering here and here.
• 51:41
  Speaker 21: I don't know if it's covering his mouth his nose
• 51:43
  Speaker 21: or below his mouth and nose. I just remember knowing
• 51:47
  Speaker 21: that he was white, but I didn't know how he
• 51:48
  Speaker 21: was white.
• 51:49
  Speaker 19: I just knew he was.
• 51:50
  Speaker 21: And this knowing there's like I knew he had looked
• 51:52
  Speaker 21: at me because of a bushy eyebrow.
• 51:53
  Speaker 12: That's all I remember.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: Joining me is Tom Smith, former NYPD detective thirty years now,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: star of the gold Shields podcast, and he covered the
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: very same streets where Brian Thompson was gunned down in
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: cold blood. You know, I have had a killer identified.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: It was a chef, by the way, identified by a
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: particular limp that he had. I've had a bank robber
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: identified because he walked sleugh footed. In other words, like
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: it up. They're old sorts of ways to identify someone.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: It can be by voice, that it could be any
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: number of things. In this case, the McDonald's manager said,
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: bushy eyebrows, and there's no doubt that's Luigi Mangioni. They
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: hate it. They hate that identification.
• 52:52
  Speaker 22: Tom, Yeah, they do, because you know, it shows how
• 52:57
  Speaker 22: important Nancy and we did this when we first started
• 52:59
  Speaker 22: talking about this case, how important the videos and all
• 53:03
  Speaker 22: the photos were to get out to the public, even
• 53:07
  Speaker 22: if his face was covered, even if he was in
• 53:09
  Speaker 22: a cab or whatever it was, because those eyebrows jumped
• 53:13
  Speaker 22: off the page to everyone who looked at it. That
• 53:16
  Speaker 22: was the number one thing that everyone looked at as
• 53:19
  Speaker 22: a looking point and identification point when it came to him.
• 53:24
  Speaker 22: And it just showed that the quicker they got those
• 53:27
  Speaker 22: photos out, the better it was.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: In the end of this, you know, I'm very curious
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: about this, the fact that he is identified at McDonald's
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: by his eyebrows, among other things. Let's say the pictures
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: of the McDonald's there you go, there he is at McDonald's.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: But Skylsarr, don't you think that the defense should be
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: more concerned about the fact that he can be identified.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: At the time of the killing, he showed his face repeatedly.
• 53:57
  Speaker 8: I agree with you, he probably should have been a
• 53:59
  Speaker 8: little bit more care at that time and that should
• 54:01
  Speaker 8: be the stuff they're seeking to exclude, and maybe they will,
• 54:04
  Speaker 8: I think as it goes to the nine to one
• 54:06
  Speaker 8: one call, the defenses probably only argument is that these
• 54:10
  Speaker 8: are witnesses who identified him, not from the shooting. They
• 54:14
  Speaker 8: weren't there that night, so they can't say I saw
• 54:17
  Speaker 8: him do the shooting. They just want to exclude it
• 54:20
  Speaker 8: because he's at the McDonald's. The problem is they get
• 54:23
  Speaker 8: to the McDonald's and it turns out to be him.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: Speaking of getting to the McDonald's, The defense is arguing
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: that while he wasn't really under arrest, he was kind
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: of under arrest because so many police started showing up
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: and massing at the McDonald's. They were concerned, if this
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: is Luigi Mangioni, the healthcare assassin, he's probably armed, and
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, he was. He was armed.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: There was a weapon in his backpack sitting right there
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: with him, so they were right. Now. What the defense
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: is arguing is that having multipolice multiple police officers show
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: up is antamount equal to arresting him. Why do we care?
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Because police engage in a conversation with him to identify him,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: and he spilled a lot of information in that conversation.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: The state says it was before his arrest. Why does
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: it matter because a statement taken while you are in
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: custody without miranda will be suppressed. So they want the
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: judge to believe that because several police officers showed up
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: at McDonald's, that me and Zionie was effectively under arrest
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: and any statements he made pre miranda should be suppressed.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: That's not going to happen. When I walk into let's
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: just pretend a Chipotle and all the Atlanta PD are
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: in there getting a salad, I don't feel like I'm
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: under arrest. Think about it. Listen.
• 55:54
  Speaker 14: Man Joni stares at monitors showing his arrest at McDonald's.
• 55:58
  Speaker 14: Man Joni sits to the breakfast at nine oh three.
• 56:01
  Speaker 14: Eleven minutes later, the nine one one call is made
• 56:04
  Speaker 14: nine twenty eight. Two police officers show up and begin
• 56:07
  Speaker 14: talking to Mangoni. The restaurant slowly begins to fill with
• 56:10
  Speaker 14: police until nine forty two, when at least eight officers
• 56:13
  Speaker 14: are visible on the recording. The defense claims packing the
• 56:16
  Speaker 14: place with police amounts to unlawful attention prior to Mangonie's arrest.
• 56:21
  Speaker 14: Agnifilo argues police surrounding Mangoni and the McDonald's tantamount to
• 56:25
  Speaker 14: illegally detaining the alleged killer. Agniffilo also takes exception with
• 56:29
  Speaker 14: the way officers treated Mangoni's backpack during the arrest, claiming
• 56:32
  Speaker 14: it was warrantlessly searched on the scene.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: In other words, they looked in his backpack. Cheryl McCollum
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: joining me. She is not only a crime scene investigator
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: and founder of the Cold Case Research Institute, but she
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: is also the star of a hit podcast which I
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: actually put on a loop sometimes, Cheryl McCollum Zone seven.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, has it ever dawned on you when you
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: go into McDonald's for a cup of coffee that you're
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: arresting somebody, that you're a mere presence equals an arrest,
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: because that's what they're arguing, and what they're trying to do, Cheryl,
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: is get out from under what Mangioni said to police
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: pre miranda and them finding evidence in his backpack.
• 57:19
  Speaker 17: I think the body cam is going to be so
• 57:21
  Speaker 17: critical here because it's going to show all of his actions.
• 57:25
  Speaker 17: It's going to, you know, show the world that he
• 57:27
  Speaker 17: stood up and thought he was under arrest. Only a
• 57:30
  Speaker 17: guilty person would think that, Nancy. What the defense is
• 57:34
  Speaker 17: doing is there basically, look, you use manure to make
• 57:38
  Speaker 17: something grow, right, So they are planting and cultivating and
• 57:42
  Speaker 17: trying to grow this story that he's the victim, that
• 57:45
  Speaker 17: he didn't do anything, that he was under arrest and
• 57:48
  Speaker 17: now he can't use anything, and it's just bs.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: While this legal warfare is taking place in a courtroom,
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: Mangionie's attorneys continue to insist that he's the victim.
• 58:02
  Speaker 16: He's a young man, and he is being treated like
• 58:05
  Speaker 16: a human ping pong ball between two warring jurisdictions here,
• 58:09
  Speaker 16: and they are literally treating him like he is like
• 58:15
  Speaker 16: like some sort of political fodder, like some sort of spectacle.
• 58:18
  Speaker 16: He was on display for everyone to see in the
• 58:21
  Speaker 16: biggest staged purp walk I've ever seen in my career.
• 58:25
  Speaker 16: There was no reason for the NYPD and everybody to
• 58:27
  Speaker 16: have these big assault rifles that frankly I had no idea.
• 58:30
  Speaker 16: It was in their arsenal. And to have all of
• 58:33
  Speaker 16: these these the press there, the media there, it was
• 58:36
  Speaker 16: like perfectly choreographed. And what was the New York City
• 58:39
  Speaker 16: mayor doing at this press conference?
• 58:42
  Speaker 23: He is a walking talking contradiction.
• 58:44
  Speaker 17: He supposedly is again this wealthy CEOs, yet he comes
• 58:49
  Speaker 17: for money.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: This is a guy living in a high rise in
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: Honolulu waking up to the beach every morning. Did you
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: wake up to the BC this morning?
• 58:57
  Speaker 21: That I sure do not.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: Ag Mangioni defenses fighting tooth and nail to keep out
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: what happened in that McDonald's, And as Cheryl McCombs pointing out,
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: that bodycam is going to be so significant because it
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter what the state says. It doesn't matter what
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: the defense says or how much Luigim Mangioni claims he's
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: the victim. What matters is what really happened inside that McDonald's.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: They're not going to get the nine one one call suppressed,
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: that's not happening. But what happened in the McDonald's. Is
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: the state going to lose valuable evidence on illegal technicality?
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: Why is it they want that backpack suppressed? Straight out
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: to investigator at large for dailymail dot com kill Lebrandtley.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: What was in the backpack?
• 59:47
  Speaker 18: Nancy? There was a three D printed gun. It's a
• 59:50
  Speaker 18: handgun which is believed to could possibly be the murder weapon.
• 59:54
  Speaker 18: There was a notebook with handwritten notes in it. And
• 59:57
  Speaker 18: he also had a knife on him, which was just
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 18: about twenty minutes later, so he was armed and at
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 18: that point he was considered very dangerous.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, what did you say was written in
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: Maggione's spiral notebook that was in his backpack.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 18: That he wanted any use the word whack the healthcare
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 18: CEO whack meaning kill, hurt, destroy.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: No wonder they want its suppressed to Dave Mack, Crime
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: Story's investigative reporter, tell me about the three D gun
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: sometimes called a ghost gun.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 24: But Nancy, you know we've been we have not been
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 24: given the very specifics of what type of gun. We
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 24: know it's a pistol, but we don't know the exact
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 24: name of it. Three D printed firearms take a massive
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 24: amount of time and filament, far more than any other
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 24: deliberator is the most common, and it's the easiest one
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 24: to print and takes the shortest amount of time. Deliberator
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 24: takes thirty hours of constant printing with non stop printing.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 24: Nancy thirty hours to print the easiest of all the pistols.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Tom Smith, here's the thing with a ghost gun is
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: made on a three D printer, Tom, it's unserialized. That's
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: why they're so popular amongst criminals. You think Grandpa as
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: is long gun his shotgun under the bed. You think
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: it's a three D printed gun. No, it's got a
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: serial number. Why is it so serious that a ghost
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: gun is un serialized?
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 22: Well, because you can't trace it. No matter what you
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 22: do with that weapon, it cannot be traced back to you.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 22: And that is why so many criminals, and Luigi Maggioni
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 22: of course went to the lengths that he did to
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 22: make that gun, because that is the predetermined and premeditation
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 22: of it. Already, he's already thinking ahead of that gun
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 22: not being traced to him, and that is part of
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 22: this as well.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: Tom Smith, you're exactly correct to Joseph Scott Morgan. Let
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: me introduce him formally. He is a professor of forensics
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: at Jacksonville State University with an incredible criminal procedure program.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: He is a death investigator that has handled thousands of
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: death scenes and he's a star of hit podcast Body.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: Back to Joe Scott Morgan, Joe Scott, what is a
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: suppressor or commonly known as a silencer.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 25: Yeah, stay away from the term silencer, because no weapon
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 25: is silenced. It is suppressed. That means that the crack
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 25: of the sound you're talking about a perhaps supersonic round,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 25: it's traveling, you know, past the speed of sounds. So
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 25: what you want to do is reduce that sound that's
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 25: put forth from the muzzle. If you take a close look,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 25: I'm glad that you have that image. You take a
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 25: close look at that weapon there. The end of that
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 25: muzzle is actually threaded. What that means is is that
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 25: it's adaptable. It's adaptable to contain a suppressor. The suppressor
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 25: is displayed here. It's that long black cylindrical object there.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 25: It can be screwed on on the end. Well, you
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 25: want to knock down the sound. So it's not going
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 25: to draw attention to you when you fire this thing.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 25: Because let's just say that it is a non suppressed weapon.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 25: This thing's going to echo through the canyons down there
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 25: in Manhattan, through all of those buildings. You'll still hear
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 25: a sound, but it'll be a slight crack. It's not
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 25: like it's portrayed in movies, okay, but it will reduce
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 25: the sound, it doesn't completely eliminate it, and the purpose
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 25: of this is so that you're not going to draw
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 25: attention to anyone. It does reduce, say, some of the
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 25: capabilities of the weapon as far as the effectiveness of
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 25: it at a greater range, but this is not a
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 25: close range. As a matter of fact, if we were
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 25: to look at the body here, it would be classified
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 25: as indeterminate because you're not going to have any kind
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 25: of sut deposition gun unperned gunpowder. It will have fallen
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 25: away by that time. But this is not too distant
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 25: of a shot. You'll still have that same muzzle velocity
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 25: striking into Brian Thompson's body. It's effectively lethal.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: Joining me now, the star of Zone seven podcasts, Cheryl McCollum,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: is with us, Cheryl who has un serialized guns and silencers.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 17: Criminals and Nancy. There's another thing. Even though this is
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 17: a three D printed weapon, it's still going to lead
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 17: marking on casons, and they're going to be able to
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 17: be determined that this weapon fired the bullets that murdered
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 17: Brian Thompson. So forensically, it's not going to get you
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 17: out of trouble. They may not can trace it to
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 17: a manufacturer, to a buar that they can absolutely determine
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 17: that bullet was fired by that weapon.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, you're so right, and Tom Smith, this is
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: like a fish in water for you. Every day you
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: were getting off the streets of Manhattan guns to match
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: with bullets, bullets that were literally dug out of victims' bodies.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: And Cheryl said it right. A bullet hurls down the
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: barrel of a gun, that gun may look like all
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: the other guns in the gun store showcase, but it's
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: not because inside the barrel the metal has cooled in
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: a certain way and it leaves ridges and imperfections on
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: the inside of the barrel, and as that bullet shoots
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: down the barrel, it is forever marked by those imperfections.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: So when you take the murder weapon to the crime
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: lab and you shoot a bullet through the murder weapon,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: and you take the known bullet dug out of the
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: victim and you put it under a microscope next to
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: the one you just shot. It's like a fingerprint. No
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: other gun, be it a three D printed gun. A
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: grandma's bassies out from under her her mattress, you can
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: track and identify like a fingerprint, that bullet came from
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: that gun. Isn't that true?
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 22: And that's the best way to say it. It's it's
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 22: the gun's fingerprint and the ballistic check of that in
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 22: the twist marks and all of that is what you
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 22: match up. And it is a fingerprint that is unmatchable,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 22: you know, to anyone else. It is strictly to that
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 22: weapon that you will match up the weapon, take it
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 22: round taken out of the victim and match it up.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 22: And that is damaging when it comes to court.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and Tom Smith, that is why they are
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: to the death in court to keep that jury from
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: every knowing of a ballistics match that his three D
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: pretty gun is the murder weapon. Listened to Alvin Bragg,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: the Manhattan District Attorney.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 26: For nearly an hour, we alleged to the definitt waited
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 26: in the area near the Hilton Hotel, waiting for mister
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 26: Thompson to appear from six thirty eight am to six
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 26: forty four am. The defendant stood across from the entrance
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 26: of the hotel on West fifty fourth Street. When he
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 26: saw mister Thompson, he crossed the street and approached him
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 26: from behind.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: Calib Brantley Daily Mail the defense for Luigi manngion He
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: is also trying to suppress statements he allegedly made to
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: his guards. He had special guards behind bars, so nothing
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: would happen to him like it did to Epstein. So
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: let's first talk about Thomas Rivers, the former British infantryman
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: who was minding Mangioni. What did Mangioni allegedly say to
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: Rivers Nancy.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 18: Luigi was held for ten days in Pennsylvania, and he
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 18: had spoken about being very disappointed that he was being
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 18: compared to the unibomber. He also said that mainstream media
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 18: was more focused on crime, and that when you looked
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 18: at social media, they were really more focused about the
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 18: healthcare industry, which, according to this officer, is what Luigi said.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 18: This was really about.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: Wow, sounds like a confession to me. Sky lazarro Oopsie.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 8: Nancy, I agree and disagree. Here's the problem they put
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 8: these guys in a situation like that, in solitary where
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 8: they can't talk to anybody else. And the other thing
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 8: is that we know these officers didn't document any of this.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 8: They're supposed to be taking notes seven times an hour
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 8: about what he's doing and his well being, and they
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 8: don't write down anything, like he just made.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: An admission, Skylasarro, did you say it's a problem he's
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: being held in solitary. You know who else is in solitary,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: Brian Thompson, except his is a casket. So you're telling
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: me again, I can't believe you're buying into this, Sky Lazarro,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: that he's the one that's being tormented. You know what else?
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: He told Rivers that Rivers should really read Doors a
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: Perception by Aldus Huxley, which is all about psychedelic drug
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: trips and mystical interpretations. Needless to say, Rivers did not
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: read the book. But there is another guard that he
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: talked to. This is the one I'm really interested in listening.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 14: Officer Matt Henry wasn't chatty with the alleged killer. That
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 14: doesn't stop Man Johnny from telling Henry he was caught
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 14: with a three D printed firearm. The weapon used to
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 14: murder Ceo Brian Thompson. Attorney Mark Agniffolo challenges Henry, saying,
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 14: so he just blurted out to you that he he
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 14: had a three D printed pistol. Henry drily replies yes, to.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold joining us, she's a renowned psychiatrist out
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: of the Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold dot com, Foreign
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: Professor Psychiatry. It goes on and on, former medical director
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: at the psychiatric Obgy Inklin at Grady, which never has
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: a lack of business. I found a lot of witnesses
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: and victims at Grady Hospital, Doctor angel Arnold, Why is
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: this so hard? I've met a jury's not going to
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: have a hard time believing this that Luigi Mangioni, who
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: has had a lifetime of entitlement, would blab to his
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: guards why they're his new friends. They would never betray him, right?
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 16: Yeap?
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 23: Oh sure? And you know, Nancy, he probably suffers from
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 23: some sort of personality disorder in which he thinks about
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 23: himself an awful lot, So he really doesn't He may
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 23: not see that he's done anything wrong, and he probably
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 23: hasn't suffered any consequences for any of his actions in
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 23: the past, and so that would make him more likely
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 23: to almost be bragging about what he's done and to
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 23: let other people know what he's done. This is typical
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 23: for his behavior in all likelihood throughout his existence.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: Tom Smith joining me Former NYPD detective thirty years now,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: star co host of gold Shields podcast, Tom, What is
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: wrong with rich people? Do they think they can just
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: get away with everything? Anything and everything they can confess
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: they can stay. Yeah, they caught me with the three
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: D printed gun, which is the murder weapon. What is
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: wrong with them? Have you noticed the same sense of
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: entitlement sometimes does them in because they think they can
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: buy off everybody, that everybody wants to be their friend,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: but these two guards do not want to be his friend.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 22: Yeah, they've lived their whole life like this, Nancy. You know,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 22: they've gotten what they wanted. They'd either pay for it
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 22: or the power that they have has influenced someone's decision
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 22: into what they're getting or what they're doing. And they
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 22: just think that holds true for every aspect of their life,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 22: including killing someone. I mean, that's how deranged they are
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 22: when it comes to the entitlement that they believe they
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 22: are are owed when it comes to murder or you know,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 22: killing a bride. We did that show. You know, it's
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 22: just constant and it just keeps coming up, and it's
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 22: absolutely disgusting.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: Tom. I want you to look at a picture. If
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: I get the controller and to put it up for me,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: dig through those files. I want to see the picture
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: allegedly Mangiani, who's presumed innocent, holding up the three day
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: with the silencer on it, pointing directly at Brian Thompson's back.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: According to Belize, he waited an hour for just the
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: right moment. There's his backpack which was recovered at the McDonald's.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: There's his outfit which he had with him. There's the
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: three D weapon, and let's look at Brian Thompson walking
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: along early morning going to a work conference. He shot
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: in the back. Prosecutors insists man Jioni's trial must move forward.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: The longer you wait to try a case, the colder
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: it becomes. Memories fade, witnesses disappear, evidence gets lost. That
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: is why the state wants to proceed in this case.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: The evidence I believe they will produce a trial is compelling.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfold. Nancy Grace crime Story, signing
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: off goodbye,