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WHY 'VITAMIN K' KILLED 'FRIENDS' STAR MATTHEW PERRY · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nisy Greece.
0:13
Speaker 2: There was universal grief across our country when the star
0:18
Speaker 2: of Friends, Matthew Perry died unexpectedly. But now we're finding
0:26
Speaker 2: out what led up to the death of the TV superstar.
0:32
Speaker 2: I mean's he grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you
0:34
Speaker 2: for being with us here at Crime Stories and on
0:37
Speaker 2: Sirius XM one eleven. First of all, the same way
0:42
Speaker 2: I like to start every jury trial. Let me start
0:46
Speaker 2: with the nine to one one call.
0:48
Speaker 3: Listen three us and radio in part of the drowning process,
1:00
Speaker 3: FU dreve tweeny three give us sign.
1:05
Speaker 2: You can't tell a lot, but I learned something significant.
1:09
Speaker 2: Let's hear that one more time, said.
1:11
Speaker 3: Twenty three give us signs and radio in front of
1:18
Speaker 3: the drowning across the dress. Twenty three, give us sign.
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Speaker 2: Now, some of those numbers are universal. Sometimes you hear
1:29
Speaker 2: numbers across a police ban or on an ems that
1:34
Speaker 2: are specific to that region. But what I'm hearing that
1:40
Speaker 2: really jumps out at me is response to the drowning.
1:44
Speaker 2: So at the beginning, it was believed that the Friends
1:48
Speaker 2: Start died of drowning because that's what was reported to them.
1:54
Speaker 2: But what do we really know take to listen to
1:57
Speaker 2: our friends at crime Online.
1:58
Speaker 4: The Los Angeles Metal Examiner determined that fifty four year
2:02
Speaker 4: old Matthew Perry died from the acute effects of ketamine.
2:06
Speaker 4: Other contributing factors listed were drowning, coronary artery disease, and
2:11
Speaker 4: the effects of buprenorphine. Buprenorphine is used to treat opioid
2:15
Speaker 4: use disorder. The manner of death has been ruled an accident.
2:19
Speaker 2: Okay, see, I'm a trial lawyer, and that is why
2:23
Speaker 2: the medical examiners and everybody at the crime lab would
2:27
Speaker 2: go hide under their desk when they saw my beat
2:29
Speaker 2: up Honda pulling up, because they knew I was going
2:33
Speaker 2: to go through it line by line literally to make
2:37
Speaker 2: sense of what they wrote down in their scientific findings,
2:41
Speaker 2: what acute effects of ketamine. Other contributing factors were drowning,
2:47
Speaker 2: coronary artery disease, prefer used to treat opioid disorder, manner
2:54
Speaker 2: of death, accident. There's so much there. I could do
2:58
Speaker 2: a whole flow charge on that to try to explain
3:01
Speaker 2: all that to a jury. Luckily we have experts with us.
3:05
Speaker 2: But first I'm going to go to a special guest
3:07
Speaker 2: joining us. Miguel Melendez joining us senior writer for E
3:11
Speaker 2: T Entertainment tonight. Miguel, what a pleasure to have you on. Man.
3:16
Speaker 2: This sent shock waves through not only Hollywood but across
3:19
Speaker 2: our country. Because I'm going to follow this up with
3:22
Speaker 2: our shrink Karen Stark. We think we know Matthew Perry.
3:26
Speaker 2: Why because we've seen him on the big screen, we've
3:28
Speaker 2: seen him on the little screen. We follow him in
3:31
Speaker 2: the tabloids. We think we know him and about his life.
3:35
Speaker 2: We've been following his struggle with addiction, and a lot
3:39
Speaker 2: of people can identify with that. If you haven't had
3:42
Speaker 2: that struggle in somebody, you know, somebody close to you
3:46
Speaker 2: has had that struggle. So Matthew Perry was kind of
3:50
Speaker 2: like every man that was struggling with a lot. But
3:55
Speaker 2: to you, Miguel Melendez, I want to go before I
3:58
Speaker 2: get into Matthew Perry himself and how it ended up
4:00
Speaker 2: this way, I want to talk to you about what happened,
4:05
Speaker 2: what surrounded the discovery of Matthew Perry dead in a
4:10
Speaker 2: hot tub leading up to that. Tell me about the
4:13
Speaker 2: discovery and what came out at the time that he
4:17
Speaker 2: was first discovered dead in the hot tub.
4:19
Speaker 5: Right, So what we know of the timeline is that
4:21
Speaker 5: at eleven AM, Matthew had played pickleball. At one thirty
4:24
Speaker 5: seven PM is when Matthew was last known to be
4:27
Speaker 5: alive by his personal living assistant to live with him
4:30
Speaker 5: in the Pacific Policy home. He was off to run errands.
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Speaker 5: At one thirty seven PM, the living assistant returned home
4:37
Speaker 5: and found Matthew floating face down in the jacuzzi. The
4:40
Speaker 5: assistant jumped into the pool, moved Matthew into the sitting
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Speaker 5: position on the steps of the pool, and found him
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Speaker 5: by the way on the heated side of the pool.
4:48
Speaker 6: Called nine one one.
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Speaker 5: Paramedics arrived and they moved and they pulled Matthew out
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Speaker 5: of the pus.
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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, Miguel, you're giving me so much information
4:57
Speaker 2: so quickly. I'm drinking from the fire hydrate because Miguel
5:00
Speaker 2: and I like to dissect every single sentence. And I
5:03
Speaker 2: loved everything you just said as far as factually what
5:07
Speaker 2: I'm learning. Could you say it again and very slowly? Okay?
5:11
Speaker 2: Did you say the living assistant found him?
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Speaker 7: Yes?
5:14
Speaker 2: Okay. Why did Matthew Perry have a live and assistant that.
5:18
Speaker 5: I can answer you, Nancy. I don't know the exact
5:21
Speaker 5: circumstances of what led to that. I do know that
5:25
Speaker 5: the living assistant, based on this report, is that he
5:28
Speaker 5: administered the Detoks drugs on Matthew twice a day.
5:33
Speaker 2: That's important. Miguel Melendez, hold on, Miguel, hold the thought.
5:37
Speaker 2: Guys with me. He's a senior writer for entertainment tonight.
5:41
Speaker 2: You all know him. Miguel Melndez giving us everything we
5:44
Speaker 2: need to know to analyze this drug ketamine that claimed
5:50
Speaker 2: the life of Matthew Perry. Karen el start joining me,
5:54
Speaker 2: renowned TV radio trauma expert at Karenstark dot com. Karen
5:58
Speaker 2: with the sea if you're trying to find her, Karen, So,
6:02
Speaker 2: is it like a minder you have with AA that.
6:07
Speaker 2: I don't think they call it a minder. They call
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Speaker 2: it something else, someone that checks in on you. It's
6:12
Speaker 2: like your partner, your buddy, that kind of that's who
6:15
Speaker 2: you call when you have a problem or you're going
6:17
Speaker 2: to relapse. Is that what you think is happening here?
6:21
Speaker 2: He had somebody to help him.
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Speaker 8: It's called a sponsor.
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Speaker 9: And his assistant she was his sponsor. She was his reminder.
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Speaker 9: As you said Nancy. So she was there. She could
6:34
Speaker 9: not stop him from taking something, but certainly was trying.
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Speaker 9: That was her role to make sure that he was
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Speaker 9: on the straight and narrow and sticking to his determination
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Speaker 9: to stop. And he was very open about it. But
6:50
Speaker 9: he really did want to stop taking drugs recreationally.
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Speaker 2: He really did, and he made no secret about it.
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Speaker 2: What let up to that moment Miguel Melndez is describing.
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Speaker 2: But first again, Miguel, could you tell me the assistant
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Speaker 2: comes in. You said he was near the heater end
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Speaker 2: of the hot tub.
7:13
Speaker 6: Correct.
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Speaker 5: So at four pm, the living assistant walks in from
7:17
Speaker 5: running errands finds Matthew Parry floating space down into jacuzi.
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Speaker 7: In the heated end of the pool.
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Speaker 5: The assistant jumped into the pool, moved Matthew into the
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Speaker 5: sitting position on the steps of the pool, and called
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Speaker 5: nine one one. Paramedics soon arrived, pulled Matthew out of
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Speaker 5: the pool onto the grass, where he was pronounced that
7:38
Speaker 5: at the scene.
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Speaker 2: You know, I think I had it, bass akwars Migail Melendez.
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Speaker 2: I was saying hot tub because I've read Jacuzie. But
7:47
Speaker 2: was the jacuzzi or the hot tub part of the pool.
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Speaker 2: Was he in a pool or was he in a
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Speaker 2: hot tub or jacuzi?
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Speaker 5: It looked like it was a long pool that has
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Speaker 5: a jacuzi And if they're not two separate.
7:59
Speaker 2: Okay, that makes perfect sense. Okay, guys, what led up
8:04
Speaker 2: to this moment? Take a listen to our friend Nicole Parton.
8:09
Speaker 4: Matthew Perry went to his country club to play a
8:11
Speaker 4: game of pickleball with friends around eleven am. Perry returned
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Speaker 4: to his home after the game and was seen by
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Speaker 4: his assistant, who was leaving the house to run errands
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Speaker 4: at one thirty seven PM. At four o'clock PM, the
8:24
Speaker 4: assistant returned to the home. Investigator Jennifer Hertzog says the
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Speaker 4: assistant found Perry floating face down in the heated end
8:31
Speaker 4: of the pool. The assistant jumped into the pool and
8:34
Speaker 4: moved him into a sitting position on the steps and
8:37
Speaker 4: called nine to one one. Paramedics responded, pulled Perry out
8:41
Speaker 4: of the pool and onto the grass, and pronounced him
8:44
Speaker 4: dead on the scene at four seventeen PM. His stepfather,
8:48
Speaker 4: Keith Morrison is listed as the informant, which means the
8:52
Speaker 4: dateline host is who identified Perry to authorities.
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Speaker 10: Oh my goodness, that mus have been so horrible on
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Speaker 10: the stepfather to have to do that after the struggle
9:02
Speaker 10: Matthew Peerry went through so publicly against substance abuse.
9:07
Speaker 2: Mike McCormick joining me out of LA owner lead investigator
9:11
Speaker 2: mcm Investigations. Mike McCormick, thank you for being with us.
9:16
Speaker 2: I'm very curious Matthew Perry had been so open and
9:20
Speaker 2: public about his battle with addiction. Who I mean, even
9:27
Speaker 2: I know about that two thousand miles away, who would
9:30
Speaker 2: be supplying him drugs, ketamine and all the other things
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Speaker 2: in his system.
9:36
Speaker 7: It was either prescribed to him that Kennedy was prescribed,
9:41
Speaker 7: or he's getting it off the street. There's only several
9:43
Speaker 7: ways of doing it. My understanding is that the from
9:49
Speaker 7: he's a assistant or past girlfriend miss edwards that she's
9:56
Speaker 7: been involved with him off and on from about two
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Speaker 7: thousand and six, and she used to purchase his drugs
10:02
Speaker 7: off the street for him. So the ketamine and other
10:11
Speaker 7: drugs he may have been taking could come from me
10:14
Speaker 7: their source.
10:31
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.
10:35
Speaker 2: Migaim Melndez joining as senior writer Entertainment tonight, is that true?
10:40
Speaker 2: I don't know that. Is that true? And can that
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Speaker 2: be corroborated that an ex girlfriend would score drugs for him?
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Speaker 5: Well, I don't know that the girlfriend and the assistant
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Speaker 5: are the same people. I do know that there was
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Speaker 5: a girlfriend who was his assistant at one time, and
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Speaker 5: she has gone on record and asked that you know
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Speaker 5: the doctors the investigated if they were the ones who
11:00
Speaker 5: supplied the ketemine. Now she's gone record and said that
11:06
Speaker 5: if that happened, and then this investigation needs to happen.
11:10
Speaker 4: But whether the.
11:11
Speaker 5: Assistant and this ex girlfriend are the same people, it
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Speaker 5: doesn't seem to indicate that that's what happened based on
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Speaker 5: the investigation and the details that are in the medical
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Speaker 5: examiner's report.
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Speaker 8: The assistant, this is Wendy Patrick. It looks like the
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Speaker 8: assistant that it was living with Matthew Perry at the
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Speaker 8: time his death is a man named Kenny a La Masa, right.
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Speaker 8: Not the prior. Not a prior girlfriend or a female assistant.
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Speaker 2: You're right, Wendy Patrick. Guys, you're hearing California prosecutor and
11:41
Speaker 2: author of Why Bad Looks Good Wendy Patrick at wendypatrickphd
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Speaker 2: dot com. The Star of today with doctor Wendy on KCBQ.
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Speaker 2: I was just coming to you, Wendy on another point,
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Speaker 2: a legal point, and that is I saw the trial
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Speaker 2: go down. I don't know if you remember Archie Bunker
12:00
Speaker 2: of All in the Family. Yeah, when his son died
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Speaker 2: of an overdose. He went after the supplier in the
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Speaker 2: Fulton County courthouse. And I was just wondering, Wendy about
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Speaker 2: people knowing about his public struggle against addiction. I mean,
12:19
Speaker 2: he wrote about it, he talked about it, very open
12:23
Speaker 2: about it. Who would supply someone battling addiction with drugs.
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Speaker 2: It's a great question.
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Speaker 8: When you're talking about somebody that's supposed to be a confidant,
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Speaker 8: a sponsor, a helper, a minder. We have all these terminology,
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Speaker 8: these terms that we use. It's very different than a
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Speaker 8: Michael Jackson situation, where you actually have somebody medically administering
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Speaker 8: a drug.
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Speaker 6: Who would do it?
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Speaker 8: I would have to say, Nancy, as you and I
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Speaker 8: and our listeners know the same people that are selling
12:52
Speaker 8: drugs to begin with, maybe somebody that doesn't know him
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Speaker 8: well enough, or because it was prescribed lawfully for a
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Speaker 8: medicinal purpose, somebody that honestly although mistakenly thought that he
13:04
Speaker 8: needed it or could handle it in different doses. You know, ketamine,
13:07
Speaker 8: if it's being as supervised, is used certainly, not very
13:11
Speaker 8: not as often as many other drugs. But you have
13:13
Speaker 8: to believe whether or not somebody thought they might be
13:16
Speaker 8: doing him a favor, if he was depressed, if he.
13:18
Speaker 2: Was suicidal, they could not have been more wrong. And
13:23
Speaker 2: if it comes out that we can find the supplier
13:27
Speaker 2: or someone who ate it or a bet at him,
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Speaker 2: I eat to just think about this, Wendy Patrick about
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Speaker 2: criminal charges joining me right now? Is the expert in
13:37
Speaker 2: this field as far as I'm concerned, The pre eminent
13:41
Speaker 2: expert Doctor William Moroney, Medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist, opioid treatment expert,
13:49
Speaker 2: author of American Narcan, which is on Amazon. Doctor Moroney,
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Speaker 2: take a listen to what we've learned about the autopsy.
13:59
Speaker 4: Matthew Perry's autopsy report doesn't say how or when Perry
14:03
Speaker 4: used ketamine prior to his death, but the coroner ruled
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Speaker 4: out the ketamine treatments he had a week and a
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Speaker 4: half before his death because ketamine has a half life
14:12
Speaker 4: of three to four hours or less. The report notes
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Speaker 4: at the high levels of ketamine found in his post
14:18
Speaker 4: mortem blood specimens. The main lethal effects would be from
14:22
Speaker 4: both cardiovascular overstimulation and respiratory depression. Drowning contributes due to
14:29
Speaker 4: the likelihood of submersion into the pool as he lapsed
14:32
Speaker 4: into unconsciousness.
14:34
Speaker 2: And that's not all, doctor Moroni, wait for it. I
14:38
Speaker 2: would never have imagine this goes into the cocktail.
14:43
Speaker 4: The autopsy report noted Matthew Perry's history of chronic obstructive
14:47
Speaker 4: pulmonary disease, emphysema, and diabetes. The report mentions Perry's past
14:52
Speaker 4: drug use, but notes Perry had reportedly been cleaned for
14:55
Speaker 4: nineteen months. The New York Post reports that in the
14:58
Speaker 4: autopsy report, a comment is made about Perry undergoing ketamine
15:03
Speaker 4: infusion therapy, most recently one and a half weeks before
15:06
Speaker 4: his death. The report states ketamine treatments are for anxiety
15:10
Speaker 4: and depression, but ketamine in the system couldn't be from
15:14
Speaker 4: the infusion therapy. Doctor Bankole Johnson, one of the leading
15:17
Speaker 4: neuroscientists and physicians in the field, tells The New York
15:21
Speaker 4: Post that ketamine in Perry's system is more likely from
15:24
Speaker 4: recreational use.
15:25
Speaker 2: Male hormone testosterone injections, and there's one more ingredient. Why
15:35
Speaker 2: was Matthew Perry getting injections of the male hormone testosterone? Listen.
15:41
Speaker 11: According to Matthew Perry, he had been cleaned for nineteen months,
15:45
Speaker 11: but The Daily Mail reports the actor died from an
15:48
Speaker 11: overdose of the party drug ketamine. According to the autopsy report,
15:53
Speaker 11: a detective who attended the scene of Perry's death said, quote,
15:56
Speaker 11: during my investigation, no alcohol, illicit drugs or drug paraphernalia
16:00
Speaker 11: were found unquote. The Daily Mail also claims the fifty
16:03
Speaker 11: four year old was getting injections of the male hormone testosterone,
16:07
Speaker 11: and an unnamed female associate claimed the injections were causing
16:10
Speaker 11: him to be angry and mean for the last couple
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Speaker 11: of weeks.
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Speaker 2: From my point of view, doctor Maroney, as a lay
16:17
Speaker 2: person and not a doctor an MD like you, if
16:21
Speaker 2: something calls causes you to be angry and mean, it
16:25
Speaker 2: makes me wonder if it also didn't jack up his
16:27
Speaker 2: heart rate, this male testosterone injection. But I mean, I
16:32
Speaker 2: don't know what to make of it, doctor Moroney. Because
16:34
Speaker 2: you've got ketamine, you've got testosterone, you've got the opioid
16:40
Speaker 2: treatment drug. There's so much going on there.
16:43
Speaker 6: What you have is a cocktail of disaster because you
16:48
Speaker 6: probably are dealing with multiple doctors that are not communicating,
16:55
Speaker 6: nobody's coordinating his care. And if he's getting ketamine, as
17:01
Speaker 6: it's said in the autopsy, there's ketamine contents in the stomach,
17:08
Speaker 6: that would be ketamine pills. That's a rogue doctor, somebody
17:13
Speaker 6: outside of good practice guidelines giving pills they have no
17:18
Speaker 6: business giving. In addition to ketamine treatments.
17:21
Speaker 2: I mean, is a ketamine used by vets so animals
17:25
Speaker 2: don't have pain during operations.
17:27
Speaker 6: Yeah, it helps with anesthesia for your cats and dogs,
17:31
Speaker 6: but at low doses. It's been shown to be beneficial
17:36
Speaker 6: in massively unstable major depressive disorder. But guess what that
17:44
Speaker 6: acceptable therapy is nasal? It's a nasal spray with your psychiatrist.
17:51
Speaker 2: What you're saying ketamine, which many people believe is just
17:56
Speaker 2: used by veterinarians, now people are using it, and you're
18:01
Speaker 2: saying that the only approved way for it to be
18:05
Speaker 2: used by people is by a nasal spray.
18:08
Speaker 12: The acceptable SDA approved supervised ketamine treatment is the growth.
18:15
Speaker 12: See your psychiatrist, have an appointment, get a nasal spray,
18:20
Speaker 12: and stay until you're stable and have a counseling session.
18:24
Speaker 12: What you have here is somebody keeps saying, well, he's
18:27
Speaker 12: in treatment, he's in recovery. He's not getting enough psychosocial
18:31
Speaker 12: therapy because he's impaired, he's impulsive, he's processing poor decisions
18:38
Speaker 12: because he doesn't have that counseling part linked to all
18:41
Speaker 12: this medicine?
18:42
Speaker 2: What is ketamine?
18:44
Speaker 6: Ketamine is a class of medicine that works on transmitters
18:51
Speaker 6: called glutamate.
18:53
Speaker 2: Oh, dear Lord in Heaven, speak English man, What speak
18:58
Speaker 2: English mean? Is this something I've got to worry about
19:01
Speaker 2: they're going to have in the halls of my twins
19:03
Speaker 2: high school? I mean, I hear about ecstasy, co marijuana,
19:07
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. But ketamine.
19:09
Speaker 6: Ketamine's been abused for twenty years in drug culture and
19:13
Speaker 6: drug use.
19:13
Speaker 2: But is it traded freely on the street.
19:16
Speaker 6: It is on the street.
19:17
Speaker 12: You can buy it, if you can ask for for
19:20
Speaker 12: your dealer, they'll get you some.
19:22
Speaker 6: But it's FDA approved as a nasal spray. And he's
19:24
Speaker 6: not getting the FDA approved version.
19:26
Speaker 2: Okay, I heard somebody jumping in. Is it wind your
19:29
Speaker 2: Karen Stark Karen.
19:30
Speaker 9: It's used as a club drug. It started years ago, Nancy,
19:35
Speaker 9: but it's continuing. People do use it recreationally, but it's exactly.
19:40
Speaker 9: There are a lot of trials going on where they
19:44
Speaker 9: are bychadelics to stop addiction, just the opposite of what
19:49
Speaker 9: we have here and for depression, and that has to
19:53
Speaker 9: be a trial because it's not FDA approved.
19:56
Speaker 6: These are rogue doctors in rogue clinics. The only doctor
20:02
Speaker 6: that's probably legitimate here is the one giving the bupen orphine.
20:05
Speaker 6: That's the hardest word to say, but in order to
20:08
Speaker 6: do that you have to have training. The rest of
20:10
Speaker 6: these people doing ketamine rogue. They're outside the law, they're
20:15
Speaker 6: outside good practice. We saw this with Anna, Nicole Smith,
20:20
Speaker 6: Michael Jackson, Prince, all these rogue doctors treating all these
20:24
Speaker 6: celebrities and you don't know who's around them.
20:27
Speaker 2: Ketamine has been around and being abused for a long time.
20:31
Speaker 2: We just don't know that much about it and we
20:33
Speaker 2: don't see it as much. We don't it's not soaked
20:36
Speaker 2: into our national understanding as well. But as far as
20:42
Speaker 2: I can remember that it's been called baby food, bump,
20:45
Speaker 2: cat killer, cat valume, fort, Dodge, Green, Green, k kayland
20:51
Speaker 2: k hole. There's a million slang words for ketamine. And
20:56
Speaker 2: the first time I ever saw that what I was
21:00
Speaker 2: prosecuting and somebody had it as an aside drug. They
21:05
Speaker 2: were dealing heroin, and they also had vitamin K. And
21:09
Speaker 2: you're gonna laugh at this, Mike McCormick, I said, so,
21:12
Speaker 2: what's wrong with vitamin K? Because I didn't know what
21:15
Speaker 2: that vitamin K was? Kennymine, and that was, oh gosh.
21:19
Speaker 2: I was prosecuting a dope lord and he had a
21:22
Speaker 2: stash of vitamin K. That's the first time I heard
21:25
Speaker 2: about Kennemy.
21:27
Speaker 5: And Matthew Perry was not the first celebrity to be
21:30
Speaker 5: open about the Kedemy therapy sessions. I mean, the week
21:34
Speaker 5: before he died on December one, Christy Keagan was very
21:39
Speaker 5: open about the fact that she underwent Academy therapy session
21:42
Speaker 5: to celebrate her birthday and she said on Instagram how
21:45
Speaker 5: she saw space and time and her late so late
21:49
Speaker 5: son Jack is someone she saw during this therapy session.
21:53
Speaker 5: So kennymy has kind of like sort of has come
21:57
Speaker 5: into the conscientt as of late and now more because
22:01
Speaker 5: of Matthew Perry's death that you're seeing the horrible side
22:04
Speaker 5: effects that it can have.
22:05
Speaker 2: So, Miguel Melndez from AT joining US, you're saying that
22:10
Speaker 2: it's common use among celebrities to what fight depression.
22:14
Speaker 5: To fight depression, to figure themselves, to use them to
22:17
Speaker 5: use it as a form of therapy. Christy Keegan is
22:20
Speaker 5: far from the only celebrity who has been open about
22:25
Speaker 5: taking or undergoing academy therapy sessions. You have the lights
22:30
Speaker 5: of Sharon Osborne and Pete Davidson who have been open
22:32
Speaker 5: about this. But again, academy therapy session is not dangerous
22:37
Speaker 5: if it's done under supervision. As our doctor seen doctors
22:41
Speaker 5: heareff said, when you go rogue, and in this case,
22:45
Speaker 5: it seems to indicate that that's what Matthew Perry did.
22:48
Speaker 5: You're going to see the fatal consequences, consequences, and that's
22:52
Speaker 5: just that's exactly what happened.
22:54
Speaker 7: Here.
22:54
Speaker 2: You're hearing Miguel Melendez, senior writer AT and I've gotta
22:58
Speaker 2: get everything he said, which is all correct, by the way,
23:01
Speaker 2: explain to me medically doctor William Moroney, renowned expert in
23:06
Speaker 2: this field. So when you have ketamine treatment with a doctor,
23:12
Speaker 2: you're saying ketamine is ingested nasally like through dristand the
23:19
Speaker 2: spray into your nose, and if it's used any other
23:23
Speaker 2: way than it's rogue. Do I have that riot, Maroni.
23:26
Speaker 6: The reason why it's rogue is the FDA approved spray
23:31
Speaker 6: comes with specific conditions, that you're observed, that they follow instructions,
23:37
Speaker 6: and that your safety comes first, and you really can't
23:40
Speaker 6: even drive to and from your session. You're supposed to
23:43
Speaker 6: have somebody take care of you. As soon as you
23:45
Speaker 6: let somebody take ketamine pills, well, it's unobserved, it's uncontrolled,
23:51
Speaker 6: and it's clear there was ketamine in his stomach and
23:54
Speaker 6: his level in his blood was exactly halfway between low
24:00
Speaker 6: anesthesia and high anesthesia. You don't have those levels when
24:05
Speaker 6: you're supervised. And the whole idea that ketamine therapy is
24:11
Speaker 6: matched to a psycho social treatment of behavioral counseling session.
24:17
Speaker 6: That's where you make the changes. You have better insight,
24:20
Speaker 6: you have better processing and stress, and you're not impulsive.
24:24
Speaker 6: The last thing you want with impulsive behaviors with somebody
24:27
Speaker 6: in addiction is to put them on potosterone. That's insane. Well,
24:34
Speaker 6: everybody knows it makes you feel really good as a man.
24:39
Speaker 6: You're sixty years old, suddenly you feel thirty six, okay,
24:43
Speaker 6: but it comes at the price of frustration and anger
24:48
Speaker 6: and really short tempers. Add that to the impulsivity of
24:52
Speaker 6: substance use disorder, and you could have, you know, a
24:57
Speaker 6: dark rabbit hole, a hidden monster in this and somebody
25:01
Speaker 6: who's not going to listen to somebody when they say, oh,
25:04
Speaker 6: you know, it's taking a few too many ketamine pills.
25:07
Speaker 6: Ketamine spray is not something you do every day. It's
25:10
Speaker 6: once or twice a month with counseling session.
25:13
Speaker 2: And because he had the pills in his stomach still
25:16
Speaker 2: at the time the autopsy, we know it was rogue
25:19
Speaker 2: ketamine and not the type used for infusion treatment. And
25:24
Speaker 2: of course you've got the other factor weighing into Matthew
25:27
Speaker 2: Pierre's death. Uh, and that is with all these drugs
25:31
Speaker 2: in the system, he gets into the pool, the hot
25:35
Speaker 2: tub and it's not the first time. Take a listen
25:39
Speaker 2: to our cut thirteen.
25:42
Speaker 13: How you doing? It's a security from Beverly Hilton.
25:44
Speaker 5: Hi, what con on?
25:45
Speaker 13: I need a paramedic, Faranily. I got a fourty six
25:47
Speaker 13: year old femail I found in the bathroom, but I
25:49
Speaker 13: fell up. Guy right now, but they're requesting paramedic. Tw okay,
25:51
Speaker 13: para fell about them. I'll love mccanneal. I'm not sure
25:53
Speaker 13: she fellow she was in the bathroom with the water
25:55
Speaker 13: four four four three four. I'm sorry she sent round
25:58
Speaker 13: four three fourth fief okay, and they're not ethwift or
26:00
Speaker 13: anything else that's rowing four three four thirty four. Yeah, okay,
26:04
Speaker 13: you don't know see your country of breathing at all.
26:06
Speaker 13: Apparently she wasn't breathing and she's toy six year old.
26:08
Speaker 13: She was not breathing. Yeah, okay, but see you in
26:10
Speaker 13: a breathing I aw, I don't know, okay. With the
26:13
Speaker 13: first thing that called me was guy Ray and I okay,
26:16
Speaker 13: much out of it. Okay, you know gondrec card to
26:18
Speaker 13: go in there now, Okay, we'll come to breathe her
26:19
Speaker 13: fire over there with that person not breathing, there's kind
26:21
Speaker 13: of like the first.
26:21
Speaker 5: One still not breathing.
26:22
Speaker 13: Yeah, that's correct. Okay, we'll get in there for not
26:24
Speaker 13: bringing it.
26:25
Speaker 8: Give me to the remplant.
26:25
Speaker 13: Can I get topr Yeah, we're going there now, are you.
26:28
Speaker 6: Get me into the room.
26:29
Speaker 13: Plank and trying to get kepr on trucks. Oh, I'm sorry,
26:30
Speaker 13: uh no, because kept hanging up on us, kept hanging
26:33
Speaker 13: up on Youah, okay, right, we're good now, you know, okay, okay,
26:36
Speaker 13: thank you give away.
26:37
Speaker 2: And there was water in Whitney Houston's lungs, indicating she
26:41
Speaker 2: was alive when she was submerged underwater. But according to
26:46
Speaker 2: what we learn, the level of cocaine in Whitney Houston's
26:50
Speaker 2: body was not lethal, but it was enough to make
26:55
Speaker 2: her unaware of the fact she was going underwater, and
27:00
Speaker 2: in an eerie twist, the same thing happens to her daughter.
27:05
Speaker 2: To listen to our cut sixteen.
27:08
Speaker 11: The only child of Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown, Bobby
27:11
Speaker 11: Christina Brown wanted to follow her mother's footsteps as a
27:14
Speaker 11: singer and actress. Tyler Perry cast Bobby Christina Brown in
27:18
Speaker 11: his television series For Better or Worse and had high
27:21
Speaker 11: praise for her work. In her personal life, she became
27:24
Speaker 11: engaged in Nick Gordon, a friend of the family who
27:26
Speaker 11: lived with them from the age of twelve. Never officially
27:29
Speaker 11: adopted by Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown, Bobby Christina Brown
27:32
Speaker 11: referred to him as her Big bra online. Their engagement
27:36
Speaker 11: shocked many. On January thirty first, twenty fifteen, Nick Gordon
27:40
Speaker 11: found Bobby Christina face down unconscious in a bathtub in
27:43
Speaker 11: her home in Alfaretta, Georgia.
27:44
Speaker 2: And then just recently, we lose another celebrity, Aaron Carter
27:49
Speaker 2: in our cut twenty one.
27:51
Speaker 11: As the younger brother of Nick Carter of the Bank
27:53
Speaker 11: Street Boys, Aaron Carter had a connection to the big time.
27:56
Speaker 11: He could sing, he could dance, and he had the
27:59
Speaker 11: look with most teen idols when they're fifteen minutes is up.
28:02
Speaker 11: Aaron Carter struggled. His first stint in a treatment facility
28:05
Speaker 11: was announced by his manager when the singer was just
28:07
Speaker 11: twenty three. Then a year later it was announced that
28:09
Speaker 11: he completed a twenty eight day rehab stint at the
28:12
Speaker 11: Betty Ford Center. On November fourth, twenty twenty two, Aaron
28:15
Speaker 11: Carter's housekeeper found his body in the bathtub at his home.
28:19
Speaker 11: The Los Angeles County Department of Medical Examiner Corner ruled
28:22
Speaker 11: cause of death was attributed to drowning after inhaling die
28:26
Speaker 11: floro ethane and taking the generic form of the brand
28:29
Speaker 11: name Xanax. The report also indicated that Carter was incapacitated
28:33
Speaker 11: while in the bathtub due to the effects of the
28:35
Speaker 11: drugs he took, which contributed to his death by drowning.
28:38
Speaker 11: Aaron Carter was thirty four.
28:40
Speaker 2: You know Winny Patrick, California prosecutor and author. So many people,
28:46
Speaker 2: not just celebrities, die in pools and hot tubs after
28:51
Speaker 2: too many drugs or too much alcohol.
28:54
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's so unfortunate. You know, we only hear about
28:57
Speaker 8: some of these famous people because they're famous. Think about
29:00
Speaker 8: how many men and women, friends, neighbors, family members die
29:04
Speaker 8: in the same way. But maybe don't just grab headlines.
29:08
Speaker 8: It's one of the reasons we always want to reach
29:10
Speaker 8: out sooner rather than later for people that are struggling.
29:13
Speaker 8: And I like the way in that last clip they
29:15
Speaker 8: talked a little bit about what happens after the fame.
29:18
Speaker 5: You know.
29:18
Speaker 8: One of the things that Matthew Perry said, he said,
29:21
Speaker 8: taking kay is like being hit in the head with
29:24
Speaker 8: a giant happy shovel, But the hangover outweighed the benefits.
29:28
Speaker 8: And that's part of what I think celebrities are getting
29:31
Speaker 8: better at explaining and that yes, perhaps they're self medicating,
29:35
Speaker 8: but it's not worth it in the end. And that's
29:36
Speaker 8: one of the messages that Matthew Perry wanted to leave
29:39
Speaker 8: us with.
29:39
Speaker 2: Karen Start joining us, a renownced psychologist. Karen, we know
29:43
Speaker 2: that Matthew Perry told everyone he had been clean going
29:49
Speaker 2: on two years? Is that common for addicts to insist
29:55
Speaker 2: their claim.
29:55
Speaker 9: Is tremendous amount of denio nancy because they really are
30:00
Speaker 9: struggling in most cases to be clean. They don't want
30:04
Speaker 9: to be addicted, but they're very, very susceptible. And when
30:08
Speaker 9: you think about somebody who's famous like that, there are
30:11
Speaker 9: always people around who were willing to oblige them with
30:15
Speaker 9: drugs and tempt them with drugs because they want to
30:19
Speaker 9: make them happy, they want to be around the celebrity.
30:22
Speaker 9: It's something that happens all the time. So I am
30:26
Speaker 9: sure he was trying but obviously not succeeding, or that
30:30
Speaker 9: ketamine would not have been there.
30:32
Speaker 2: He had really been through a battle. I want you
30:36
Speaker 2: to take a listen to our cut four our friends
30:38
Speaker 2: from crime Online. Something I didn't know until after Matthew
30:43
Speaker 2: Perry passed away after years of addiction.
30:46
Speaker 14: Matthew Perry spent five months in the hospital after his
30:49
Speaker 14: colon burst from prolonged opioid abuse. Perry says he was
30:53
Speaker 14: in surgery for seven hours, in a coma for two weeks,
30:56
Speaker 14: and doctors told his family he had a two percent
30:59
Speaker 14: chance of survivor. After leaving the hospital, Perry used a colossomy.
31:03
Speaker 2: Bag for months.
31:18
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.
31:21
Speaker 2: You know doctor William Maroney joining us, the pre eminent
31:26
Speaker 2: expert in this field. Doctor Moroney, I believe that if
31:32
Speaker 2: my colon had burst from prolonged drug use, I would
31:37
Speaker 2: go through hell in high water not to get addicted again.
31:41
Speaker 2: But see that's me on the outside looking in because
31:43
Speaker 2: I'm not addicted. Addicts tell me that they can't stop themselves.
31:50
Speaker 6: What it is is there is an insight issue that
31:55
Speaker 6: comes with substance use disorder. And the only way you
31:59
Speaker 6: can rewire the brain. It's like rewiring a vacuum cleaner,
32:04
Speaker 6: rewiring a radio, or you know, rewiring a power strip.
32:10
Speaker 6: You rewire the brain, not by feeding the body drugs
32:16
Speaker 6: just as a substitute, but in depth therapy, making selections,
32:22
Speaker 6: looking at the trauma in your life, choosing not to
32:27
Speaker 6: be impulsive, choosing to process your stress. You have to
32:31
Speaker 6: do that with another person, face to face. It's not
32:35
Speaker 6: always about the drugs. He may have been clean from
32:39
Speaker 6: heroin for two years, but his brain was not done
32:46
Speaker 6: processing that. Impulsivity and impulsivity, poor processing, and lack of insight.
32:53
Speaker 6: Those are the three things that substance use disorder people
32:57
Speaker 6: suffer with to every single for alcohol heroin. Okay, those
33:01
Speaker 6: are the three things. And the only way through that
33:04
Speaker 6: rewiring is with another person in a chair, face to face,
33:09
Speaker 6: and that's just not being done today. Everybody wants a pill,
33:12
Speaker 6: they want to quick fix, and these rogue doctors are
33:16
Speaker 6: not getting people the therapy they need. In the end,
33:20
Speaker 6: the same thing is going to happen. Somebody's going to
33:23
Speaker 6: be investigated by the medical board. There'll be another trial
33:26
Speaker 6: in a year. Somebody's going to lose their license. And
33:30
Speaker 6: it's so sad that Matthew Perry had to die this way.
33:34
Speaker 2: Same thing with Michael Jackson, Conrad Murray. There was a trial,
33:38
Speaker 2: he gets convicted. In the end he walks free, and
33:43
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson still did same thing with Matthew Perry. A
33:47
Speaker 2: bright light has been extinguished because of ketamine. And I
33:54
Speaker 2: want to follow up with Miguel Melndez, Senior reporter Entertainment tonight. Miguel,
33:59
Speaker 2: I had no idea that Matthew Perry had been through
34:03
Speaker 2: so much in his battle, even having his colon burst
34:10
Speaker 2: from prolonged opioid abuse. But there's more. Miguel, Let's nowur
34:15
Speaker 2: cut five.
34:16
Speaker 14: Two years after his near death experience, Matthew Perry goes
34:19
Speaker 14: to a rehab facility in Switzerland. He wrote that he
34:22
Speaker 14: faked pains and dumbs to get oxy conton during COVID.
34:25
Speaker 14: He was also getting daily ketamine infusions. While at the facility,
34:30
Speaker 14: Perry needed to have surgery and was given propofol.
34:33
Speaker 2: When he woke up eleven.
34:34
Speaker 14: Hours later, he found out his heart had stopped for
34:36
Speaker 14: five minutes, and during the long CPR process, eight of
34:40
Speaker 14: his ribs were broken.
34:41
Speaker 2: The doctor then refused more mets. So this guy, Matthew Perry,
34:47
Speaker 2: I mean, we look at him, Miguel, and we think, Wow,
34:50
Speaker 2: he's famous, he's a star. He's got all this money
34:53
Speaker 2: in this beautiful home. This guy was in a living
34:56
Speaker 2: hell that nobody knew about. I mean, he had his
35:00
Speaker 2: tom burst from opioid use. Then he dies essentially during
35:06
Speaker 2: a surgery, and all eight of his ribs are broken
35:10
Speaker 2: during CPR, and yet he went back to his own hellhole.
35:15
Speaker 2: He couldn't stop himself meguil.
35:17
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it's tragic.
35:19
Speaker 6: All these near death.
35:20
Speaker 5: Experiences rooted from his need of these substances, and he
35:26
Speaker 5: wrote in his book that he thought that the only
35:28
Speaker 5: reason why he was revived and given CPR in such
35:32
Speaker 5: aggressive manner was because the person performing the CPR said,
35:38
Speaker 5: I can't let the guy from Friends die on my table.
35:41
Speaker 5: That can't happen on my watch. So in retrospect, Perry
35:45
Speaker 5: asked himself, had I not been on Friends, would they
35:49
Speaker 5: have stopped giving me CPR after three minutes, and said
35:53
Speaker 5: they went five minutes. Wow, five of them.
35:55
Speaker 6: Wow.
35:56
Speaker 5: And you talk about these drugs in his system. And
36:00
Speaker 5: even when he was detoxing in the final episode of
36:04
Speaker 5: Friends in two thousand and four, when the episode ended
36:07
Speaker 5: and it all came to a close and everyone felt emotional,
36:10
Speaker 5: not just the cast and the crew, but everyone who
36:13
Speaker 5: was tuned in to that show, Parry himself said in
36:17
Speaker 5: his book that he felt nothing because the detox drug
36:20
Speaker 5: that was in his system at the time made him
36:22
Speaker 5: feel numb. So even in the happiest moments, or what
36:26
Speaker 5: should have been the happiest moments of his life, he
36:30
Speaker 5: felt nothing. And again, it all rooted because of the
36:33
Speaker 5: substance issue that he's had for so long.
36:36
Speaker 2: Miguel, you are bringing up a whole other issue, not
36:40
Speaker 2: only the battle against addiction, but how it affects your
36:44
Speaker 2: life day to day. He couldn't even feel regular emotions.
36:49
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, this morning, when I was driving
36:52
Speaker 2: the twins to school, I was so happy just being
36:55
Speaker 2: with them. What a loss in your life, not to
36:59
Speaker 2: be able to fill all those wonderful things. And guys,
37:05
Speaker 2: we're finding out now how his ketamine addiction began. Take
37:11
Speaker 2: your listen to Our Cut six Our Friend. Investigative reporter
37:14
Speaker 2: Nicole Parton.
37:16
Speaker 4: Matthew Perry wrote about the ketamine infusions he received at
37:19
Speaker 4: the Swiss clinic. He explained in his memoir that ketamine
37:23
Speaker 4: quote has my name written all over it. They might
37:26
Speaker 4: as well have called it Maddie. The New York Post
37:28
Speaker 4: reports that Perry described the drug as a giant exhale
37:33
Speaker 4: and said he would be blindfolded and listening to music
37:36
Speaker 4: when he got his injections. Perry also said he would
37:39
Speaker 4: disassociate during the infusions and often felt as if he
37:43
Speaker 4: were dying. Perry said he kept signing up for it
37:46
Speaker 4: because it was something different, and quote, anything different is good.
37:51
Speaker 4: Taking kay is like being hit in the head with
37:53
Speaker 4: a giant, happy shovel, but the hangover was rough and
37:57
Speaker 4: outweighed the shovel.
37:59
Speaker 1: Still.
37:59
Speaker 4: In his memoir, Perry says ketamine was not for me.
38:03
Speaker 2: You know, dtr Maroney, ketamine is my new nightmare, my
38:08
Speaker 2: new nightmare because I've never known of it actually killing
38:12
Speaker 2: anyone until now.
38:14
Speaker 6: Well, I think the ketamine awareness has went from zero
38:19
Speaker 6: to one hundred on our National barometer. But the whole
38:23
Speaker 6: idea is effective, evidence based FDA proved ketamine treatment comes
38:29
Speaker 6: with counseling, and where we have rogue doctors and really
38:35
Speaker 6: dark rabbit holes is people are going to look for
38:38
Speaker 6: this stuff and not match it to the counseling. The
38:42
Speaker 6: lack of feeling that he had meant that he was
38:46
Speaker 6: just altered by drugs. Seeing people having emotions. You know,
38:52
Speaker 6: you talked about your kids. I got kids the same age.
38:57
Speaker 6: Where's the celebrities with taking their kids the school? They
39:01
Speaker 6: miss all that stuff. They're in they're in clinics, they're
39:04
Speaker 6: in rehab, their their homes are in the hills, and
39:07
Speaker 6: nobody had families out there. Let's get back to simple things.
39:13
Speaker 6: If you're going to do ketamine. You're going to seek
39:15
Speaker 6: it out. Seek out the FDA approved ketamine, the counseling,
39:20
Speaker 6: the psychiatrist of behavioral health clinics, not the rogue. Rogue
39:25
Speaker 6: leads to death.
39:26
Speaker 2: You know one thing that Matthew Perry said, He said
39:30
Speaker 2: that when I ever die, I'm probably going to be
39:34
Speaker 2: remembered from my role in friends. But what I want
39:38
Speaker 2: to be remembered for is how I helped people and
39:42
Speaker 2: maybe helped them get out of or avoid addiction. And
39:49
Speaker 2: he has done that. He has helped so many people,
39:53
Speaker 2: and he's helping us now spreading the word about ketamine
40:00
Speaker 2: and how it can kill. Matthew Perry, God willing rest
40:06
Speaker 2: in peace, good Bye friend,