Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / A Financial Planner does NOT need to be academic – Sam Robinson

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A Financial Planner does NOT need to be academic – Sam Robinson · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: So check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone, it's Elena back for this week's episode of the Financial Planner Life Podcast.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: And this week I'm joined by Sam Robinson, Director of Almond Financial.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Within this week's episode, we touch on an array of subjects, including why you don't need to be a high performer at school to be a high performing financial planner, the importance of embedding a strong culture within your firm, the benefits of having a younger age profile team, and the importance of mindset.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: How are you this morning, Sam?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: Hi.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm good.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: Very good.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: So how I like to start all my podcasts is allow people to talk about their career journey to date.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: So how have you got to the place that you are now?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: What's your being your career history?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's a little bit non-standard.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I started off I left school at 16, actually became a chef when I left school.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I wasn't very academic, I didn't really like exams.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: So um I wanted to do something that I could, well, not do an exam for really.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um so uh I started working in kitchens when I was 14 and um left school at 16 and went to work in a hotel and trained up there.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I later went down to London and did uh Michelin star food in a in kitchens in London.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but uh I quite quite quickly realised I I really wasn't uh I I loved it, don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed it, but I thought I had more to offer and I've and I thought I'm better I'm I'm better at uh dealing with people and I always like talking to people, especially you know, out of the kitchen after service.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: I used to go and speak to clients and sit with them and talk to them.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: And um I quite I quite like that interaction.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: So um, but and also my mum and dad and my my brother were all in all in finance, and they said, look, you know, you need to put your ideas up and get a job in a bank.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: So um that's that's really what happened.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: I got bought the mortgage advice book for Christmas one year, and um, and then the rest they say is history.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but um it was a bit of a it was difficult getting into the industry uh because I was a chef.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh nobody wanted to give a chef a job in a bank.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um so uh I had to do quite a lot of applications, 150 applications into banks just to get a job as a cashier.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: So um yeah, uh, but then but then I joined that West in um 2012, I think, or 2013, and um started off in that west in mortgage advice.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh left there, worked for a worked for a firm and IFA practice for a couple of years and then started on financial and um and we are here now.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: So that's a very brief history.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's not particularly linear, isn't it?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Going starting as a chef and then ending up as a financial planner.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's excellent because it goes to show all the different avenues that you can take to become um a financial advisor.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: But to start with, you said that you weren't necessarily very academic, you um didn't want to do um sort of anything that was particularly exam-based, you've ended up doing something that requires you to set take a set of exams um for you to be qualified.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Did you find that a barrier?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Did that ever put you off when you were starting to explore things in a bit more detail?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or how did you find the exam process?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: It was a barrier.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um I didn't I avoided it for many years.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: With, you know, it wasn't the first time that my brother said to me, get a job in a bank, you know, leave being a chef.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: So um, but um he bought me the first book, and I think it was CMAP three or C Map two or something.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: It was one of those.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I did it, I read it, and I did it because I was really I was annoyed about being a chef, you know, working 50 hours a week, 50 weeks of a year.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'd had enough.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I forced myself to read the book and I thought, well, I'll go and do the exam, I'll fail it and I'll rule it out.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and then I passed the exam and I thought, right, okay, okay, I can do exams now.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I was interested in it, I wanted to learn it, and I and it was a it was a I was I've always been interested in finance, I've always been interested in money, I've always been, I've always been quite good with money.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I wanted to get into that more, and um, and that spurred me on, um, you know, to the point now where I got chartered status, you know, two weeks ago.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, but it yeah, thanks.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: But it it was, I'm not good at exams, I'm dyslexic, and I I have uh it hard it's hard to learn for me for in in that in that kind of environment.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I just have to do more more hours.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: I just have to revise more, I have to revise for longer.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and um I know that now.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I just I just apply myself in that manner.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and and I had a good tutor, a good, a good tutor and trainer and a and helper when I did my chartered exams, um, Paul Lucas.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um he was he was mega.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: He was he would it made a big difference really for me to be able to absorb that level of detail.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I think lots of people, especially when we're talking about the future of financial planning and there definitely being um not enough sort of individuals coming into the profession, I think because it is definitely very complex, you have to sit all these exams.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, people think they need to have be academic or be have done a certain level in their school years to be able to get to this level.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, what would you say to those people?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it's it's not just the academic side that contributes to a good financial planner then?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: I I would say, I would say a good financial planner is probably not academic.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um a good financial planner can deal with people and talk to people and understand what they actually need and what and what they actually want out of life, and then to be able to structure everything accordingly.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: You can learn financial products, you can't learn to deal with people uh as easily, in my opinion.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and I certainly I certainly took that on board when I when I started up with my days at Matt West.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um I wasn't the most academic, my you know, my grades, my grades at school were not good, um, but um I learned to apply myself and move forward.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: And um people can always pass an exam and learn it.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's a down-to-work ethic, it's down to your desire to want to learn the exam.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: If you if you want to put the time in and the effort in, you will pass it.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's just um it's just applying itself.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: And and and I I interview on attitude, not on not on exams.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, if you've got the right attitude, I can pretty much teach people what they need to learn.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um so so yeah, but I'm I completely don't don't necessarily, it's not essential.
• 6:13
  unknown: Yeah.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: For example, then for people that necessarily haven't been very good at school for one reason or another, um, aren't particularly academic or have necessarily struggled with the the exam side of things, but you are a really good people person, you like speaking to people.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think sort of financial planning is a profession for that kind of calibre of individual?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh if if you've got the work ethic, you're willing to spend the time and actually apply yourself to exams and not just pass one, fail uh do an exam, fail it, and give up.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, if you've got a determination to succeed, you you know, you can succeed.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: But there's so many different elements to financial advice these days.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just being able to pass exams, it's willingness to deal with people, sometimes difficult situations, sometimes people in difficult periods in their life, you know, maybe terminally ill or maybe, you know, very unwell or needing to retire for whatever reason.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes they're challenging situations that you need to be um, you know, need to handle really well.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: And that that's a lot harder, in my opinion, than passing the exams.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, learning that and being able to do that is is uh is almost a gift, I think.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: So what were the key skills then that you think you'd harbored throughout your youth, and particularly maybe when you were a chef and things like that, that are actually now key in what you're doing now?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what well, stress management.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: Stress management is is is the the number one.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there is there is nothing harder than being in a line kitchen at 18 years old with 12 chefs doing mission star food working 60 hours a week.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: That is probably one of the most challenging jobs I've ever had, you know, and and the stress that I have now running a firm of of nearly 10 people is nothing compared to what I used to have as working in the kitchen as a chef.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: So being able to deal with stress and handle handle stress is one major thing, but also directness, just being really direct and really open, really honest and not talking in riddles, talking like how my clients speak and being able to relate to them and give them the information they need in a way that they want to, the way they want it to be delivered, um, is what I learned because communication is the key.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I learned that being a chef to be able to communicate things in a quick way, in a very direct way, with without going around, you know, going around the houses.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um and also moving forward when I was a when I was at working for Nat West, I thought I was particularly good at speaking to clients and understanding and asking questions um from quite an early stage, um, which I think I've learned throughout my life, but um definitely being just straight to the point and pretty and pretty direct.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: So going back then to sort of getting your first role within financial planning, you said you made 150 job applications but didn't necessarily get anywhere.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well I made I made more, I yeah, that was the first time.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I was um I was I was I wanted to be mortgage advisor, but I was a chef.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: I was qualified mortgages, but I had no experience in a bank.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: I had very little experience customer service-wise.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: And um, so I went to work um in a power station on the front desk for a year to get some customer service experience, which was uh different.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I was applying for mortgage advisor then, and um, I was getting said no, and people just saying no, even with customer service experience, you haven't got banking experience.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: So um, but I spoke to a lady from RBS, she was ever so nice, and um she said, Oh, you know, you you you you've pretty much passed the interview, the telephone interview, but you don't have enough points on your CV to be able to give you a job um as a mortgage advisor, and and I have no other roles to offer you.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: But what you should do, and what I really, really recommend you do is apply for a customer service role, you know, a cashier role, but basically the entry level.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um she said, because I'm pretty confident you could get that, uh, but it will be, you know, it will be a bit of a different role than being a mortgage advisor.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I went back and then started applying for um customer service roles, and another hundred later or something crazy, I got I got offered a few interviews and managed to get a job as a cashier.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: But uh, yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty hard work.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I speak to so many candidates and so many individuals that are really passionate about financial planning, like yourselves.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of them have done the groundwork, sat the exams, you know, you know, work really hard to pass those exams.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're applying for loads of jobs and they're not getting anywhere.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it is really disheartening because you've done all that you can do, and all you need really is that someone like that lady at RBS that gives you the opportunity to sort of prove yourself.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, what would you say to other people that are in the situation, a similar situation that you are now?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: How did you persevere over that obstacle?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: I just wouldn't take any for an answer.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: There's there's there's got to be uh there's got to be one, there's got to be a way of it happening, it's gonna work because I'm not gonna give up.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: So it was just carrying on and trying hard and not giving up.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: That was that was the key.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: And it got easier and easier as I progressed through my career to be able to accelerate and move forward.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um but in those very early days, I had absolutely no um, you know, there was there was no movement, there was no progress.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I just had to keep on plucking away and get getting that interview.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and I had to change my whole life.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I was working at a power station, working eat working nights, and I was earning fairly good money working long shifts.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I had to take a 50% pay cut to go and be a cashier.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and and um, but but that didn't daunt me.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: I said, look, you know, it is what it is.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: I need to just I need to move forward.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: If this is my only opportunity, I'm taking it.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and um I had to sell my car and I had to make massive life changes to be able to afford to be able to take such a poorly paid job just so I could work for a bank.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and I only had a few months that I needed to to progress at a bank, otherwise I would run out of money.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it was it was massively risky, but um, it was my only option.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: So short-term loss for long-term gain, though, isn't it?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: I guess it's about looking at the the bigger picture rather than just at the here and now.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, even like moving job roles, you might take a job that's you know, two grand salary cut than what you're on at the moment, but long term it's going to be able to offer you the career progression that you're looking for.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find that difficult at the time, or did you, because I even though we say sort of short-term loss for long-term gain, it can be really difficult to appreciate, oh, well, I've got to sell my car and things like that.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: What did you always have the bigger picture in mind?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Are you quite a visionary in that sense that you could always look forward?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, there was, I'm gonna do it.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: There was never a question.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: As soon as I got the job role, my notice was in and I was gone.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: There was no, I was gonna succeed.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it was hard going into a bank and learning things from from, you know, learning how to, you know, count cash and deal with a computer system and you know, balance the safe and you know, all those little jobs you do when you're in that kind of role.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's completely different, but I loved it.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I had a really good set of people working with them.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: They really helped me out, they taught me really well, and um, and very, very soon I could get into a bit of um uh a system and getting into getting into the the ways they wanted me to work, and and very soon I I became um uh uh an advisor for certain products um in the bank, you know, the bank accounts and the credit cards and the home insurance, the simple stuff.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and and very soon I I kind of uh stood out to them.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and by very soon, I mean I was there three months and I was and and they said, Oh, you know, you you you made for this, you know.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: So so it gave me the it spurred me on to push harder and quicker to get to a mortgage role, mortgage advisor role.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: So and um you started in mortgage advice, but then sort of transitioned across into sort of financial planning as such.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: How did you find that transition?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because I speak to lots of people that you know are mortgage advisors that want to go into more sort of wealth management.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: How did you find that journey from one to the other?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um it was I I had a bit of a it was a bit of a strange.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: I I never really planned on doing it.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I didn't, I didn't.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't I didn't.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: When I joined the bank, I wanted to be a financial planner, that's all I wanted to do.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: But then the bank, when I was with Nat West, they offered me a fairly good role in the commercial arm um of the bank, and um, and I was gonna go for that.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then and then we we didn't really agree on terms, so I thought, well, I probably won't, I probably won't bother with that then because it wasn't really what they what they promised, the role wasn't what they promised we would be.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: So before I went to that, I thought, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna move on, but I'm I'm I'm I'm a bit bored with mortgages now, so I'm gonna do my my level four exams.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I spoke to a couple of people around that I knew that were level four, and they said, Oh, yeah, do do DIPFA, do LIBF, go for those.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you can get good courses, you can get good support.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I thought, right, well, I'll do that.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I um while I was working at Nat West, I then um bought the bought the books to that and I started doing um the revision at home in the weekends and the evenings while doing my full-time job at Nat West as mortgage advisor um to be able to become qualified, to then be able to leave the bank to be able to then be a planner.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: But um um I spoke to um a recruiter at Nat West and they found me a job in a in an IFA practice that needed a mortgage broker that wanted them to progress to pension advisor.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and um, and that seemed to fit really well.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I left the bank and then went to do what be a mortgage broker or self-employed.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um so then leaving the bank to go to zero guaranteed income was another, you know, was another challenge.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and lots of people find that really daunting as well.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Ultimately, as we talked about before, it is sort of that thinking about the long term and the bigger picture.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: But did you find that jump from an employed role to a self-employed, was that really daunting?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that that was uh that's probably one of the biggest risks because I I was earning quite well in our west.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: I was hitting my bonuses, I had really good terms, I had lovely paid holiday.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's very comfortable.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: The bank is very comfortable, and and I wanted, you know, I had a young family and and I wanted to, it was it was hard.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was hard.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: But but ultimately, if I I looked back at where I was when I was at the power power station to moving into the bank in the first place.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: This was just a part of the process.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: I needed to do it.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: And in those days, I mean, it was only what are we six, seven years ago.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: There was never a oh, we give you an employed role or we give you leads or we give you this or we give you that.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: It was um you join the firm, you find your own business and you make it or you don't make it.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: And that's how brutal it was, even only six or seven years ago.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and so I made that, yeah, I made that jump.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: It was a tough decision, but um um you know, I made it work.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think lots of people are on that precipice, on the edge, and they're thinking about do I do it, do I not?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think the fact that when you do look at an employed role and you look at a self-employed role, when you are in an employed role, you do have that security blanket.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: If I get ill tomorrow and have to have a week off work, I know that I'm gonna get paid for the time I've been off.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: I can go on holiday for a week with my family and I know that's paid for, but obviously being self-employed has loads of other benefits as the the freedom, the flexibility, the even just the reward to being able to sort of build up your your own business and your own bank as such.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, what would advice would you give to people that are on the edge?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Would you tell them to just do it?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to them?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I don't think I would just say do it.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's very it's a very difficult choice, it really is.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and I think these days you probably don't need to do a jump into a self-employed role.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's probably roles you could get, you know, as a power planner and work up to advisors.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a lot, a lot more, I would say a lot more structured and probably safer options out there where you can just take a pay cut as opposed to jumping off the pay cliff, like I do.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: You could probably you could probably just take a pay cut and maybe be a power planner for a few years and then build up to an advisor and do it in a way, in a way more sensibly structured way.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I I went for it and it because it was my only option.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: I had one offer, I took the offer, it was I'm gonna make this work.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: And um there was never a question in my mind um that I would make it work.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: But it was harder than I thought, you know, that was it was way more difficult than I expected.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but um that was mainly because the burden of administration and the work behind the scenes, as well as you know, finding the clients, finding people through networking, finding people wasn't, to be honest, wasn't the difficult bit.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: The difficult bit was making sure that I've got the time to write the business and actually do the administration and to do everything myself.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: And uh it was just a lot, a lot, a lot longer hours than I thought initially, but um, it was worth it.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was worth that, but that's what I was gonna say ultimately, you know, was it all was it all worth it?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: In in six months I was out earning my wage in that west, but um for five months I earned nothing.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: So so you really have to kind of ride it by the seat of your pants.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: But I I would say probably don't do that these days, do it in a more structured way.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah because there are opportunities these days that weren't available when I was at the bank.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's still plenty now, especially for financial planners.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think once you get to a point where you have really got the ball rolling and you you've got the experience behind you, there's definitely some excellent self-employed opportunities out there that will give you the more flexibility, as we mentioned, and things like that.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I think all of them are going to require, as you said, a couple of months of really working hard.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, as I'm sure your whole career journey today has demonstrated, is that your hard work pays off if you really apply yourself and you have a picture of what you want to achieve, if you have that worth ethic behind you and the drive that you can achieve it.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think as well, my broad, my broad offer of services when I was at that at that stage, not only could I do pension advice, but I could do mortgage advice, I did protection advice, I did you know investment advice, because I could do you know all of those services, albeit I wanted to focus in the more financial planning space.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: If I got a if I got a protection case in, you know, I could, I could, I could give that.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: If I if I got a mortgage in, I could do that.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it and it gave me that breadth to be able to do the business as it came in, because I couldn't be that selective uh when you first start.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and and and self-employed is great.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: If you can get admin support back off your support um in a self-employed role, it it will make so much difference, you know, because I didn't have that.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then ultimately you started Almond Financial.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: So how did that come about?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I remember just talking to you about it previously about you you started it in your in your house.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: So how was how was starting your own business?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: At what point did you decide, right, I'm gonna do this on my own?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think it was after a few years of working for a practice and and and thinking actually, um I'm I've I'm being constrained by lack of administration support, and and I'm being constrained by the lack of flexibility to do it the way I wanted to do it, which I believed was, I wouldn't say better, but uh more modern and more and more um friction-free, I would say.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and um and then I and I and I did my figures one day and I thought, well, actually, if I have my own firm, I could do the same level of business, probably work less because I could have had them in support, and I'd probably come out with the same income because the the money I was sacrificing to the practice would effectively cover uh a power planner or an administrator.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I started it in yeah, in my spare room at home and um uh I lived on Almond Crescent and uh it was called Almond Financial, and um and then and then we we uh we started off and and grew from there.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: I got a lady working part part-time for me who used to be a chartered investment manager who'd retired, and so she did a couple of days a week for me.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and um, and then we as I grew, I brought a mortgage broker with me who I used to work with at Nat West.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: She used to, she was actually my boss at Nat West, she was my manager at Nat West.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: And um, she got made redundant and she was the best manager I've ever had.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: So as soon as she got made redundant, I was like, right, can you come and work for me?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: I've got I've got loads of mortgage business.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: You can help me write the mortgage business and I'll focus on pensions.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so so that was the first stage, really bringing bringing her on and then and then finding a proper, fully fledged power planner that could do everything.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because the lady worked for me was great part-time, she really had to get out of the ground.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: But um I needed someone that could prep reviews and write replacement business, write new business, do protection.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: And that that's that skill is such a broad skill that um I really had to find someone that could fit that role.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: And that that was hard, the hardest hire because it was just impossible to find someone.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: And did you find, you know, going from your bedroom to what you are now, was it a lot of scaling up?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Was it difficult?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Was it all quite organic, or how did it all manifest?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh organic, I would say, but but we I invested heavily in marketing, uh heavily, thousands um a month in marketing.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so but that was the first the first thing.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I got I got the office actually.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: Me and my friend, um he he's um in recruitment, he's Specializes in recruiting recruiters, which is crazy.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: Who knew they had to do it?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's crazy.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: And he he we wanted an office together.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: So we basically hired one ground floor and we split it into two and we share it.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: There's only small, um, but there's only me and Amber and Sally at the very beginning.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: So there's only three of us.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and then as we grew, and obviously I do a lot of pension transfer work and um and and and a lot of the in the DB space.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: I've I did that for a while, and um uh we still do that now, albeit not as much.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um we we soon required, we still realized we needed more more administration support.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: And as we got more clients on board, we we needed more more support in the office.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: So um then I brought in a second power planner um and then I brought in a financial administrator to help us with the amount of reviews we had, which is all kind of growing with clients, acquiring clients online and uh acquiring clients locally, locally through uh networking and um and so forth referrals, albeit referrals were a very small part of our business because we had a very small business.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's only it's only probably in recent times that we're actually getting a lot more referrals because we've got a lot more clients to refer referrals to.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: So um yeah, organic.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: We haven't acquired a firm before, we haven't bought any any any client banks or anything like that.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's been purely from referrals.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I've been the only level four advisor.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: So apart from um my mortgage consultant Emma who came on board, you know, like I described it after the first year, um, I've had nobody else give advice.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's just been me really going out there and finding bringing into bringing in the business.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Have you um, and I think this will be really interesting for our audience to know, I think lots of people would be like to be in a position like yourself where they own your own, own their own business, um, they've got their their own bank as such that they've built up themselves.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Was marketing a big thing initially, as you mentioned, that to get a lot of new business in, or was it a lot of going to seminars, or what for yourself did you find sort of the best methods to go about and generate your business at the beginning?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: I did everything.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I did everything.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I did face-to-face networking.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I did um I did I ran seminars, free pension planning seminars where I used to get 15, 20 people in a room and explain to them how they can how could how they can calculate their own contributions and uh the differences between different schemes and what they need to look at and how they need to assess a decent advisor and what they should be looking for in in in advice when they're looking for advice and um other risks and things they should be considering at the same time.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I ran a couple of those, they were really good, that's pre-COVID.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um I did a I had nine people in one room and seven became clients, which was fantastic.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I did, I didn't, I didn't I didn't necessarily push with services.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: All I did was explain how I do it and how they needed to look at it.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: And um and so, so, so the seminars are really good, albeit we haven't managed to do any of those yet.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: I do want to get those back on or back up and running this year because they were really good, um, really good to getting us out there.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh face-to-face networking, um, you know, things like uh B A and I gets a bad rep, but if you get if you get a really good group of people in the same room, all local business people, or with their own businesses, there's there's there's no better way of helping your own clients when you know you've got loads of decent people in the room that do what they do really well.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then I did I did all the older versions of networking, and also um we use things like unbiased as well.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: We we get we get we get reforms from unbiased and then um AdWords on Google, search engine optimization, SEO via a website, um, and um and then professional introducers, uh accountant solicitors.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: We've got one of what we've got an accountant, uh chartered accountant to firm, large one, don't have their own financial services.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um they they um we work together with our own clients.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: We we we we they help our clients and we help theirs, and um, and and then a solicitor.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: I I work for a divorce solicitor locally who um has fairly uh complex divorce cases that I um uh sometimes expert witness in court andor um advising accounts how to carry on their lives the next phase of their lives um from their from their divorce.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: So every single one of those is important and I wouldn't like to lose any one of those.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um so so but we I get probably seven referrals a week, six referrals a week now.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um so so hence hence the reason why I've got so many power planners.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think then it's about if you're in the position or people in our audience are listening to this and they're talking about, you know, or finding it potentially difficult to self-generate their own business?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think um a key thing that you found is dipping your toe in the water and different things and trying different methods and not just doing, I'm just gonna do seminars or I'm just gonna do this?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Is it about trying lots of different options and seeing what works for you or also optimizing them all to the best of your ability?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: But the things like I need an accountant, you know, I need my accounts doing, I need my tax returns doing, I need, you know, I we have we have clients that have trusts that we need trust tax returns completing for our clients.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: We have uh clients of international tax affairs that need to be arranged.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so I need to know somebody that is blooming good at what they do in the accountancy space, who I could risk my reputation referring them to and know they're going to get a great level of service.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: And um and to find, and I changed accountants three times to find an accountant that gave the level of service that I wanted, and um, and it was a real challenge.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: It took me a long time to find an accountant that could really deliver uh what I felt was the right level of service.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: And and we've had a great relationship with them now for probably um uh nearly three years, and um, and they're very, very, very good.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, I have a client who um recently sold shares in uh in um uh a European country uh and exited the business, needed international tax advice, um, and uh very complex case where he was struggling to get advice and the team there could help.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: And um and and and I did with directors and I helped with them with their directors, and we're soon going to do some seminars together as well um to help help because obviously an accountant and a financial advisor, they're not you don't have one or the other, you need both, really.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: And um they come as a package and and we're trying to be that package for for our respective clients.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: So um, but it's finding it's finding a firm that is um you know responsive and and wants to deal with you and can and can um deliver that level um of service to your clients and then you can work together.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: And and for me that was been it's been one of the best relationships, but also the the the partner that I work with is a great guy, similar age to me, really, really good at his job, is absolutely on it.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: He's got a great team behind him.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: It is the mirror image of what I see myself.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: And and we go we go for dinner every other month, we uh every month we go for dinner, we we we yeah, we we we we share contacts.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's just really a really good relationship.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like a really good relationship.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds across the board, you know, with all the referrals you're getting, um, even the relationships that you've got within the team, um, that you are sort of very client-centric and very relationship-driven and obviously very good at building rapport.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: And would you say, you know, from your experience to date, that that is a key thing within this profession and within this business?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say that's because I definitely reflect from this conversation that it sounds like probably the sort of most important thing is that you've got to be good at building those relationships and obviously ultimately deliver the service to and to mean that that relationship keeps going.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's also about trying to help as many people, you know, we do get a lot of inquiries from uh that they just they just need a bit of a bit of advice, quite a bit of a hand, a little, a little kind of nudge in the right direction, or they're thinking about doing something.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: They just wanted us to to reaffirm that they should go in the right, they're doing the right thing.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: So a lot of it is very, very basic stuff that that really isn't going to result in a relationship long term, but it's just something to get them to the next stage.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not being too um selective in the early days, just trying to be open and honest and help and deal with clients in a really fair manner where you're not necessarily taking, you're not really necessarily having a long-term relationship with every client that you meet, but it's just doing things to the right people at the right time and being really open about it.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, has been the main thing to us because um we had a we had a client recently who wanted to go and see an advisor locally, and it was£895 for an initial meeting.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I just think that's obstructive.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: It really is obstructive.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: And we do free, we do a first, you know, free initial meeting.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and we will can will remain to do that.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I had a client, a couple of clients coming yesterday who looked on Google, they found we had the most reviews in locally, the best reviews locally.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: They booked, they rang up, booked an appointment in.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there's obviously no fee, no commitment, none of none of that.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: And they have a very large, very large amount of wealth between them and they never actually have a device before ever.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: So, so um, and and um they've become clients, which is great.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's kind of being visible, um, uh, but being open as well, and open and wanting to see clients.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: You said being open is very important to you.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the fact that you've got that initial meeting, which is free to stop that barrier to allow you to sort of instigate that um relationship is important to you.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: You also said previously that once you left your previous practice and you wanted to start Armand Financial, being a modern firm was something that was very important to you.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: So what would you constitute as being a bit more modern or progressive as a financial planning firm as such?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: What have you tried to implement um now in your business?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um paperless.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_03: Paperless.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly, it's so it's crazy.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: We we we type our fact finds straight onto a computer, we don't fill out paper fact finds.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we fill out all of our clients' forms over DocuSign.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: We don't have client files, we hold all of our clients' information in a uh two-stage encrypted online um cloud.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so so when I look at a client's document, I could be on the train to London, see my clients in Scotland, and I can pull up documents from a client uh down south and review that information while I'm on the train.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's efficiency.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and an efficiency is when we went into COVID and we locked the doors and we didn't come back for a year.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, like my team just took the laptops home and it's fine, we just carried on, you know, because we had the information in the cloud, we had the systems where we didn't have to do paperwork.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: And the biggest, the biggest administration burden I saw in the previous people I've worked for, including NAWS, was paperwork.
• 32:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: It was physical files that needed to be digital.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, we created our own documents through editable PDFs, we've created our documents through online portals, and we've created systems that allow us to be able to be really lean and to reduce those uh administration tasks the smallest amount of time.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: You know, because if you think if you're on a client, assigned client agreement, you have to find the agreement, print it off, get the client to sign it, get it back, maybe post it either way, um, they need to scan it on, they need to put it on the system.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you could get rid of all that by just sending an email.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, and you don't and then you get this email back when it's ready and you save it and it's done, and you move on to the next one.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: So that that one thing has saved us a huge amount of time internally.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and things like using using the cloud.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: So all of our all of our financial updates, all of our market updates, all of our you know, the webinars that we we do sometimes for clients, we send it all, um, we send it all via um an encrypted email to our personal, our clients that have our services.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, fab.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that efficiency is obviously very important, and all that paperless stuff and what you've implemented um has allowed you to do that.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I know from our previous conversations that you cover national, you cover everywhere from the Isle of Sky to Southampton, your your students.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, your clients cover everywhere.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: And do you think that paperless, that efficiency that you bought in allows you to do that?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: It does, yeah, yeah, without a doubt.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, video, we did video before before COVID, but we only did probably 10% video before COVID.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: And now we're probably 90% video.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, maybe, maybe more.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and a lot of my clients, I've got clients that run banks, I've got clients that run um, you know, huge firms, multinational firms in the you know, in the UK and Europe.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: They they don't want me to have to go to the house, make me a coffee, tie the house, put the dog away, um, and have the meeting, you know, do do the you know, do the small talk a bit, and then and then you know, fill a few forms in and then be go after an hour because because that isn't the best amount of time for for us to spend.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: I would rather have uh a one-hour call with that client four times a year than travel for three hours and have an hour's face-to-face meeting.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: So we can deliver better advice, we can deliver more acute and detailed advice directly with the client really quickly via Zoom.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and obviously we have we, like I said, when we spoke last time, we'll have a case management system which we can deal with.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_03: We we have we have between 20 and 45 to 50 cases at any one time, um, spread between eight administrators, um, eight power planners.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: So effectively we can we have a system that we can manage all those cases in one go um and be able to give each other's tasks and assign tasks that pull through to diaries.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: So be able to manage workflow um has been as as important as going paperless.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think it's really nice to see how you say that clients are receptive to it, because I think some um, and obviously how it's massively changed 10% pre-COVID, you know, 90% plus, you know, post-COVID.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think um I just go speak with individuals that they're like, you know, the virtual stuff is great, but it's not quite the same as being face-to-face.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I do appreciate that on one level or another, you know, people do like that face-to-face interaction.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: But for me personally, you know, the fact that you've got to make sure your washing's not in the living room and you've got to make someone a cup of tea and also just the ease that you know you can take that one hour call on your lunch break when you're in the office, or you know, when you're on the move, it doesn't necessarily have to be really stringent and in the diary.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so have you seen clients that potentially you were seeing face to face previously without being like, no, I want you to see me sort of on video now?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: And and probably that's why a lot of it's a lot easier, is is is one I knew a lot of them before face to face.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: So when we moved to video, it was kind of we already we already had that relationship.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: But then the majority of clients we have now we took on via video.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: So uh the majority of clients we have now, we took on through COVID.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_03: And and and and so so it's moved a lot where there's a lot of clients I've got now, I've never physically seen them.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um and we're not talking about you know clients with really simple affairs, we're talking about clients that are you know multi-million pound invested with us, and um they have very complex scenarios, but I find it better to be able to do video with them.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_03: I can make notes, I can prepare, I can get graphs ready, I can get analysis ready, I can do cash flow, we can share the screen, uh, we can be engaged for a really good one-hour meeting, and I can go, right, let's have another hour in a couple of weeks.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: Because they might go, oh, well, actually, I might I might as well retire in August as opposed to December.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, okay, yeah, fine, you can do that.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: Let me let me adjust it and let's have a quick half an hour next week, and I'll just show you what it looks like.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: And you can't do that if you're in the car all the time.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_03: You can't do that if you're spending two hours traveling to them and they're probably three hours away.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: So, so it allows you to be a lot more, um, you can adjust things a lot more and you could be a lot more kind of um detailed with clients, which which is far better.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: And though I will still see my majority of my clients now and again face to face.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, probably not annually, probably bi-annually.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, and and I have a family in Scotland um that I've had for many years, they're lovely people.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I get the train to Scotland and we go out for a few drinks, we do our work there.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: I I have I advise the whole family, and they like to do it over a few drinks, and I'll do that every year and I'll get the train back down, and that's absolutely fine.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: I work on the train up there, I work on the train back down, and that will never change.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm happy with that, but it's efficient, you know, do four or five in one go.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's efficient for us, but also if I need to pick up with them individually, just jump back on video with them.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: So it's I'm I'm seeing a lot of my clients a lot more than I've ever seen any client.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and that's gotta be that's gotta be a good thing.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's really nice to know that from your perspective and you as a firm, obviously that the the change to virtual has not stagnated the business, but in fact acted as a catalyst for you to grow and has allowed you to be more efficient, see more clients, not be on the road as long, which really no advisor wants to be, whether it's you know stopping you from seeing other people or whether it's just stopping you from going home and seeing your own family.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to be sat in the car for hours.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's really interesting to know how that decision um has really sort of pushed your growth as a firm.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Another decision that you made was to go under a network rather than to go directly authorised.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of people uh I think almost see directly authorized as being, you know, fully away from everything else and if and slightly better.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: However, working for a network has had you know been really good for you.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: And why did you choose to go under a network rather than go directly authorized?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I've worked for a network before.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: My brother is DA IFA.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so he's got a firm, he's DA.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and uh I I know from being in a network before, having processes and systems and having a saying a device process for every single uh piece of advice that you give is invaluable because you know that you're that you you're doing the right thing, you're following the right process, you've documented the right information, and there's no there's no question that um you're doing you, you know, you've you've made the right decision.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: And and having a pre-sales checked pension switch or complex advice case pre-checked gives us the confidence, the reassurance, and the and and the guarantee to the client that what we've done and what we've recommended they do is the right thing.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: And you you can do that DA, you can get a compliance manager in, you can get somebody in to do that.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: But my experience of people that have had compliance managers, they they kind of make writing new business more difficult, um, where you where you can make um where my network or I'm with Quilter, they have streamlined a lot of the advice processes that make it a lot more friction-free, which I said earlier, which is really important to us.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're a lot because they're a lot, it's a lot easier.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_03: We we are we know what we need to be able to gather and deliver per case consistently to get the right outcome for the client.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: And we and I don't believe you can get that that well that quickly without being with the network.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: And things like, you know, my brother has to have an investment committee and he has to gather an investment committee, which which is great, and he does that, and it and it and it and it by all accounts works really well.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: But I've got people we cruel to that have got far more experience, far more specialized.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm gonna call him out Rick, you know, you know, investment director.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_03: He is incredible.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: He came into my um uh into my uh uh chartered when I was doing managing investments for my chartered exams and blew our minds in about 10 minutes.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_03: I I can I can't have if I was DA, I can't afford him.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he is he is above the level I can get if I was DA.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: So so I I could get him by being part of the network.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: And and it's like that for all of the specialists that we have within the business.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and I can't I can't get that as the size I am now and the size I was was then.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: I certainly couldn't afford to do that.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: So it allows me economies of scale, it allows me access to the market, but allows me to streamline my processes and be efficient.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_03: And and and I and I personally see networks as being the way forward.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, getting insurance is difficult for DA firms.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, making sure you're consistently keeping up to date with what the regulator expects of you is very difficult.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: And and uh it's difficult and it's still a challenge even part of the net of a network.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's it you know, it's not I don't I don't rescind my responsibility.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: I still need to be able to make sure I'm up to date and doing the right things for the sort of what's required of me, but at least I get really good clear guidelines from the quilter when I need them to be able to make sure that I'm in line with where I need to be.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_03: And um it's been a huge part of our of our progress.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: We we wouldn't have progressed this quickly if we were DA.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_03: We wouldn't, I don't if I was with other networks that that I know of, I don't think we would have progressed this.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: We just had um uh the right approach and it was it was um a good a good way of progressing and yeah, quota are you know have been very good for me.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, fab.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I presume the quota processes, you know, aren't just beneficial to yourself, but to the power planners and to the whole wider team behind you.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, because we we can look at a process together as a team um of what of the of the process that we need to follow to make sure that uh we've delivered the right outcome, but also we can then embed it with our processes to make sure that we can do it in a way that is efficient.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and we can still keep efficiency.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's sometimes not knowing what you need to do or not knowing if the outcome is going to be consistently correct.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that's one of the reasons why I use a network.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: And um, yeah, it's it's it's it's been well, we do everything from equity release to pension transfers, you know.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: So we we have people in each area, and that that is a challenge when when every single process, every single requirement is going to change each year from the regulator's perspective.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: Your team is growing at the moment as well, and I'm very grateful to say that I got to support you with the appointment of um a new advisor that joined in January.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I think lots of other people um are working in businesses which they built up themselves, you know, it is your baby, you know, you've started it in the in the back room, in the room in your house, and now you're getting to the point where you're bringing in another advisor.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: At what point did you realize I need to bring someone else in to come support me with the advice side, not just the back office stuff?
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: It was it was a two it was a two-thing approach.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: My my relationship manager recruiter said, Oh, you know, you you you why have you thought about getting another advisor?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, No, I didn't really, I didn't really want to do it.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: And and then we were we were acquiring, we we we were taking on lots of clients and and I and I was getting quite busy, and I and I thought even with uh the time savings, the efficiencies, the zoom, I could, I could see a time where I couldn't spend the amount of time I was I was then seeing clients, and it did it did give me a bit of concern that I might slow down and I might not be able to give the deliver the levels of service that we're delivering now.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: And at the same time, Court has said, you know, we know someone, which was you, that could find me an advisor.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um that that they said, look, we we will, you know, we're not asking you to take on anybody, we're asking someone to take on that that you want, that you believe in, that you can, that that will fit in with your business.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: And we're happy to support you with that to help you um bring on with other advisors.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: So um obviously speaking to you and and and and asking for um you know, asking for the type of person that I wanted to see, and then obviously delivering them was was uh it was kind of too easy, really.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um and uh and David, David, David, the new guy is authorized, and and um, you know, he he'll start advising probably the next couple of weeks and from deciding in November to to to to having them approved by the end of February in in is pretty quick.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm really pleased with it.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_03: And and I'm already I'm already looking you know uh for internally promoting another one or two of my team to to start advising clients when um when we start acquiring other businesses.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately you know as you said internally promoting the team around you is quite important.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one thing that we've touched on previously um that I think is a really nice thing to talk to our audience and potential other business owners or hiring managers or team leaders that are out there is that culture is something that's really important to you isn't it?
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_03: Culture is number one.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_03: Culture and behavior is number one.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: I can we can you can pretty much learn most things but if you haven't got the right attitude and you haven't got the right you know the the right personality then then then then there is no place for you in in in a business like mine for a start and um and and everybody in the firm well we're a young business we we are under 40 all of us and um and uh that that is that is I think that's a I think that's an advantage.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: We're all really good at using systems we're all really good at using computers we're all based technology based anyway naturally from when from from how we're brought up so um but but but culturally and and and and from an attitude perspective we all want to get the right outcome the best outcome and that there's no there's no middle ground we want to be we want to be the best and um yeah and everybody works works collaboratively together to do that and um we and I don't there's no such thing as a bad idea and I and there's an open forum with my team to say if you can if you can think of a way of improving things let's let's talk about it let's do it let's try it because I don't I don't I don't pretend to know the best way about doing everything.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: And certainly now my my team at size where um we we agree we agree process changes internally through the through what my team say our bottlenecks that we're having and so so a lot of those ideas that they're bringing to the forefront are not my ideas.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: So so there's no such thing as a bad idea no such thing as a wrong idea and we just we just collaboratively we grow together.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: And we want I want everyone to have input in it and and to be on the same on the same you know the same um uh drive to get to get the same objective to get to the same endpoint and um and that that that is definitely been consistent and that's David had the when when we took when when when I interviewed him he had a great attitude and was and clearly had uh already had a a great a great background in what he'd already done he'd already proven um you know his skills there and and and he fit when he met the team it was it was like he was already a part of us uh and this is before I'd offered him the role this is just the interview stage because my team in my my team interviewed him I had a chat with him but my he he went to my my team asking the questions like that we we did a collaborative interview yeah because because bringing somebody in is is such a big thing and we all need to be working together and already singing off the same hymn sheet and and and that was what I did with him.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: I just brought him in and um all my team met him all my team had a chat with him he had asked them open questions about anything about the business um obviously that he's not not um not uh you know sensitive or anything about our work ethic and how lot how many hours they work we don't work from home well I do my team don't they work nine to five Monday to Friday they don't do evenings they don't do weekends we don't do overtime you know and and um and we we have and that passes through the whole business apart from me obviously and I think um cultural fit is definitely as you said one part of it is attitude and I think the fact that you get other members of staff to sit with you know potential new people you're going to be bringing in to make sure everyone bounces off each other ultimately you know I spend more time with my work colleagues than I see my family at the at the end of the day I have I have to get along with them I have to have um that good relationship but unfortunately when I speak to candidates a key reason that a lot of them are looking to leave is um that the culture is you know toxic they feel undervalued and they might absolutely love what they do they might love you know the the kind of you know the duties that they're doing the kind of advice the firm gives but unfortunately you know if you are within that environment you know people will look for something else so how do you make sure or do you ensure that you've got everyone's everyone's got the right qualities and has the right fit in that sense but how do you make sure you know keep that culture alive I know you mentioned first thing you know no one works overtime you don't work weekends um how do you keep that sort of balance I guess that harmony within the team as a director uh well we go to the pub a lot um we we we we we like to socialize is the word we we socialise together we know sometimes we people might be busy but but we you know if there's a birthday then we'll then we'll go out for a birthday if there's a you know there's a stag dude the other day and we we took we took Jake out for a little stag and um and we and we do and we do things together and and and and I pay for that and uh and and I cover the cost because I think that we we do one thing a month we do something a month as a team um either socially or as a treat.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like the other the other week I got uh I got a guy in and he validated all of our cars because all of our cars are filthy they're they're horrible they're horrible yeah all of them everyone's car was filthy and I saw Sally's car and she couldn't even see the number plate and so I rang up a guy that I know who does car detailing he came apart downside here and washed everyone's car inside and out or and was all day I paid for that and it's a little treat you know it's not it's not particularly expensive and and it was just getting in a nice car there's nothing you know nice clean car there's no there's no you know I love that and um he cleaned mine as well obviously and um and then and then uh you know sometimes we do we'll we'll knit we'll knit down to the to the pub on a Friday and have a have a have a quick drink at the end of at the end of Pray on a Friday or or like we do those those things.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: But also I brought in a benefits package for my team um last year you know private medical and death in service and income you know uh income protection and um better pensions better pension contributions you know more more holiday um and gift days for birthdays and you know we've done all of that because also I recognize that the the the cost and the value that the team that I have are the the the due is getting more and more in the market.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_03: You can see that and um I want to I don't want to be in a position where people are trying to poach my team um because I haven't kept their packages up with what is in the market and that's how I'm acquiring people at the moment I'm getting people come to me because they they don't want to pay rise in three years or they haven't or they don't get any work benefits or they're getting paid to do a senior role but they've got a junior job title so they're getting a junior pay packet.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_03: And that's great.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: I I I like that because that means I can then pick people that are really really good in their current role give them what they should be getting paid but I don't want that to happen to me.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_03: So so but also we we brought in pay grades like I had at the bank you know we now grade our team every year on their performance to make sure that you know their performance is in line with what we expect as a business and if it's exceeded they get a pay rise you know that the the there's there's no if you're doing the best in your you're outperforming your current role you deserve more money.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and uh and um you know that's so that's we don't we don't sit on our laurels and and I'm not we're not a firm that kind of you know a lot of firms not necessarily like my brothers but but some I know just sat on recurring revenue and they're trying to make their business fit in a certain amount of money because because no one else and goes inquires new clients they don't acquire they don't do a lot of new business and that's not our business model.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: Our business model is to is to take on new clients to help new clients and uh look after our existing clients um and so I'm not trying to get a square peg in a round hole.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I think the whole thing about the the benefits and the culture I think it can be so overlooked by the firms as you literally said then you have individuals that come to you because they see the package that you offer and they want to work somewhere like your company and I think I can really relay with that with Recruit UK you know they offer excellent benefits and um we're a really social team and ultimately I think as well as the retention of staff they're not you know going to find better elsewhere.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not going to look elsewhere.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: The flip side is that I feel like when your firm truly invests in you and not just on necessarily a work level, but you know we also have private medical um we do like lunch clubs and things like that.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: I feel so embedded in my team and so embedded within the company that I want to perform better for the overall business because of the culture that they've set in place.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really overlooked by lots of other businesses and especially as businesses begin to scale up.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's really interesting and really great to be fair how you talk talk about that because I think the with the future and the way that you know this profession is being very candidate driven, it's not just about the day to day but you're going to have to ensure that you are looking after your staff correctly to ensure that they stay and then on the flip side that's only going to benefit you as a company because you're going to build better relationships with your staff.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to be more embedded with the processes and they're going to be there with you as you continue to scale up.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah and then we're all invested we're all invested we all have to we all have to pull our own weight you know there's nobody here that slags and um and and that is really good.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I believe that is because of the culture that's because of the rewards we give to the team that's because of the little the little bits we get you know some of the things we do are not expensive.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_03: They don't cost thousands of pounds but it's the fact that you know collectively as a package it's really and and whether whether you are the office manager an advisor or the apprentice you get the same package you get the same work benefits you get the same private medical you get the same because you know everybody we're a team we're all equal in this team and we need to work together and and that's a massive you know I I've seen teamwork in in London in the kitchen with 25 chefs um I've I've seen that teamwork and that bond that you have and the the need to all be exactly on point and and up for the job.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_03: And um and and I've just I've just embedded that in the business I've got.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I think that's really beneficial.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's really um interesting for our audience to hear to hear how crucial that is especially when running your own business that culture and the dynamic that you create through not only the individuals that you bring in but the things that you can personally do at a leadership level is really important.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you touched on this previously but one of the things that you also have in common with Recruit UK is that you are a young business.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: We are um a young business here and I think especially with the the sphere of financial planning it definitely can be viewed as an aging business.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_03: So um so you know what do you think the benefits are of you having sort of a younger age profile um financial planning firm well I'm I'm not gonna retire anytime soon so so so you know you get clients that are 55 or 60 or 65 you know they they're gonna do with me and David when we're not leaving we're not retiring we're not selling anytime soon they're gonna get continuity um but also my team can can deliver communications really quickly client updates all the time um because we're aware of how important that is and and we do see more more more historic firms going quiet for two or three months and you don't really know what they're doing if you've got a case going on and no one really gives you those those updates and those and we we automate a lot of it a lot of it is automated through our system so so having that younger firm embedding the technology and and having that continuity going forward um it is is what people are looking for.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_03: We we we take on clients we win clients on the basis that I am not retiring in the next 25 years.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_03: So you you're good.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and on the flip side as well as you talk about you know the the family in Scotland that you go up and see and you you know meet different members of the family I guess it must be really rewarding or you know I personally would find it really nice that a financial planner of a younger age profile is not only be able to see your financial journey through but potentially your children and you're gonna be able to pass that strong relationship on to your loved ones because finances are so important, so taboo, um, that it's you know really nice that when you build that trusted relationship with someone you know they're potentially going to be there to to support your children and your loved their loved ones as well.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_03: When you have clients that are younger they want to normally deal with somebody younger and I and I don't profess to be young you know I'm I'm definitely getting on but but but in terms of industry average you know I'm young and and and I think when you when you've got clients that have inherited money you know in their early in the early years in their 20s um and even younger than that sometimes through trusts and they want to have somebody there that can help that person when they become responsible for that money and or when they've inherited that money they wanted someone that's more like them than maybe like their parent or their grandparent for example and and the the need for that is still there.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_03: And obviously when when you have clients that are older and they do pass away and their wealth goes to their children and if their children are not engaged with the business or they're not engaged with that age of advisor then a firm like mine will be.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the difference because we have that social reach we have that engagement with clients that are younger than the average it means that we're going to be there for people that are younger that wanted to be dealing with people that are younger.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you definitely Sam have a very as I said from the beginning very nonlinear career career journey and what you would maybe necessarily expect.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: But reflecting from our conversation and I don't know whether you agree with me but I'd say a lot of your success as such is down to mindset.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like you know from the chef days even then it was you know you're in a hot kitchen 25 of you you're working hard it's your your mindset you know overcoming the barrier of having all those applications and not necessarily getting anything instantly back.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's your mindset starting your own business do you think like your determination and the mindset that you've had has helped elevate you to this point.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah agreed agreed but obviously when I was at school I failed you know so from year from year seven to year 11 I was in the bottom set of everything.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_03: I failed every class I failed my whole schooling career I went and went to cooking college and failed that um so so you know I got used to failure it was embedded in me and it was it was my mindset that changed.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_03: I was the same person I had the same ability but the only thing was you know if you think you can and you think you can't you're right.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_03: So what do you think?
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know I I now know that I can do whatever I need to be able to do.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I started to learn that in my in my 20s that actually it's it's really it's really up to you to be able to be able to do what you want to do and to be able to completely change my career from from failing school to being a chef to then having to then start a custom service journey to then even started doing exams to now be chartered um you know when I was doing that final chart exam and I knew I had to sit in my office at home and I knew I had to put in at least another 50 hours otherwise I wouldn't get it passed.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I knew that but it was kind of like okay well I know what I need to do I'll just do it.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah it's kind of because I know I could do it.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of people might go well I'm not revising that long or I need to go and do this or I need to go and do that.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_03: No, I need to focus on this and it's one thing at a time.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah I agree.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's sort of yeah and I think whatever you do you know us primary me primarily in recruitment obviously your profession I think what whatever you end up doing mindset is so important and you literally hit the nail on the head if you haven't if you have an attitude where you think it's not going to go well it's not going to go well.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm having if I haven't had a good night's sleep and I come into work going oh I'm tired this isn't going to be a good day I'm not gonna have a good day but if you flip it round and you come in and you're there like right it's a new day let's see what it brings like I'm looking forward to these things you're gonna have a good day and I think your mindset is so crucial.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think your whole career journey to date has been really inspiring to show that you come and come from a position where maybe you might doubt yourself or might not think that you can achieve those aspirations but you've had you've obviously got the the personality traits that we've discussed previously but also you've got that that hard work that ethic that drive that motivation that vision that has enabled you to get you to that point.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: So um thanks very much for joining me on the podcast this morning Sam it's been absolutely um lovely to have you and talk about your career journey today and um I'm sure that you're gonna have a really exciting future as um Alma Financial continues to grow.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you