Latest / Firefighter Nation Podcast / Firehouse Dogs: How a Station Dog Can Support Firefighter Wellness

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Firehouse Dogs: How a Station Dog Can Support Firefighter Wellness · Firefighter Nation Podcast

• Nat Kapustin: Hi everybody, Chris here from Beyond the Headlines, and I just want to stop and say thank you for listening, supporting, reaching out, and helping the show become what it's become. if you'd like to continue supporting it, or my other company, Fourth Shift Firefighter, the best way to do that is to go on to my website, Fourth Shift Firefighter.com, or on Instagram at Fourth Shift Firefighters, number four TH Shift Firefighter, and check out some of the links and products that I'm affiliated with. Once you pick those up, it helps me out by giving me a little cut. And also you're getting a product that I either trust, I use, or I have a direct relationship with the owner of. So thank you again for listening. And just know that every time one of those things happens or you reach out and send me a message. it helps. And it helps me do cool things with the studio, cool things with the guests, and get more awesome interviews like this one. Mr. Keith Shields, welcome to the show. My man Keith here. We're gonna start this one abruptly because we got a lot to talk about and I'm excited to talk about this one. I have a history with dogs. I don't know if you saw my FDIC thing. It was one of the more fun times I've had interviewing someone, with Beth and the puppy pen. tragedy, what happened to that footage, but we got something good out of it. However, don't don't jump in yet. We're gonna ambush you here. Obviously your your article is called More Than a Mascot Why Fire Department Should Seriously Consider a Twenty Four Seven Station Dog. And with that, Keith, got a little quiz for you. All right. Name that dog. You ready? Okay. I'll name it. Yep. Are you a dog enthusiast? Are you good with breeds or are you good? I wouldn't say good with breeds. I mean I know dogs, but I wouldn't say I'm an expert by any means. Okay. All Well we'll see. I know dogs. Yeah, I know a couple of those dogs too, bro. We're not talking about your coworkers right now, okay? All right, man. This first dog. shares the name with the film that it was in. Okay. The film's plot center around centers around a Saint Bernard dog named after the famous German composer who finds a home with a suburban family. Any guesses so far? that's Beethoven. Dude, you nailed it. That's one. All right, you're 25% in. Second one's a favorite of mine. All right. Favorite from my childhood, my youth. I'm embarrassed to tell you how much I enjoyed this dog. An American live action children's television series that aired from ninety-five to ninety seven. about a Jack Russell Terrier who daydreams about being the lead character in stories from classic literature. Ooh. If you had PBS growing up, this guy was your jam. And it's a Jack Russell Terrier? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know this one. Brother Wishbone. Come on. Wishbone Yep. Wishbone. If I played the song for you, you know who it was. If I played the theme song, you'd be all over it. As soon as he said that, I started playing in my head. All right. Here's this is an old one too. Okay. one of the central characters. In the comic strip, well, I'm not gonna tell you that. by American cartoonist Charles Schultz. He appears in Peanuts films, television specials, and has a counterpart named Charlie Brown. Yeah, Snoopy. Yeah, brother. All right, last one. Now we're this is a stretch, okay? Yeah. This dog is a Canadian professional ice hockey player who's the center and alternate captain for the Colorado Avalanche. He was selected first overall in twenty thirteen. He has a Stanley Cup victory in twenty twenty two. Did they make a movie about it? No. His life is a movie, dude. Was it a golden retriever? No, man. His name is Nathan McKinnon. He's the alternate captain of the Colorado Hill Lunch. Nate Dog. His name is Nate Dog. That's why I picked that one. That's cheating, bro. I forgot you were a hockey player. Yeah, were is a was is a great word for that. That's that's the level of my hockey knowledge at this point, dude. Casual at best. Keith, welcome, dude. Welcome to the show. So awesome to have you. Thanks for having me. Yeah, dude. Read your article in the media. I was like, got a couple things going for it. Lots of references in there, which I greatly appreciate. A lot of times articles like this come through and it's just a lot of thoughts and feelings, which is powerful and wonderful. But you back it up with some science and theory and I really dig on that. second part is it brought forward a method of fire station dog that I really haven't heard of before. And we're gonna get in that a little bit, but why don't you tell me just quick intro by yourself, no big deal, and then kind of how you got into caring about getting dogs in fire stations. yeah. So I kind of just was wandering apart life without or after the military. Kind of just doing my own thing, found the fire service. I've been in the fire service since twenty how long has it been now? Since the beginning of twenty seventeen and just kind of wandered aimlessly throughout the fire service trying to find my place. And that's what kind of fast forward into today, that's kind of what has been my niche is just the mental health side of things. I just I've been in it For a very long time just dealing with mental issues myself. and then I met my wife with it and we just kind of went from there. And then after I got out of the military, I had a service dog for a little bit. nice. Okay. I don't like I didn't like talking to a therapist because I was like, man, nothing's wrong with me. Blah, blah, blah. So I wanted to try an unconventional thing because I also don't like medication. I don't like how they kind of just immediately throw you on medication and then they say, Hey, this is fixed. So I wanted to try a very unconditional method and that was a dog. And I had saw I wouldn't say significant progress at first. I did notice a change and everybody that has a dog knows the feeling of, you know, getting your ass kicked all day at work and coming home and seeing the dog wag his tail and just remembering that feeling. So just a couple of buddy of mine at the station were just kind of talking amongst ourselves and we were like, Well what Wouldn't that cool if we, you know, had a dog at the station and so we asked the chief, and the chief is like, Do your research and I'm all for it. But we need hard evidence and that's what kind of came about with the with the article. How easy is that evidence to come across? Because I feel like the model that you're providing, is that more popular than I know? Is it the way to do it, or is it how hard is it to draw like applicable evidence to convince a chief to do this? I don't there's it it's still a fairly new research thing. Animals in the fire service or any working capacity have been around forever, you know, with service dogs with search and rescue, but not in a sense of just there. It's not pitched as a wellness program, which I think uncovering and asking around has kind of how you have to word it for to get the Chiefs to raise an eyebrow a little bit. so it's it's more of a in a sense of a wellness program. And if you ask like all the old school guys that have station dogs of why they have it, and they go, Nah. He just kind of showed up one day and he never left. So there was really there's really no factual research on basically what station dogs actually do yet. Now the model we're talking about, here's the one I've always heard of. And here's the one I've talked to people. like when we're in that puppy pen FDIC, I talked to the people who provided them and they said, This is not a station dog. This is someone's dog who works at that station and it goes home with them. They bring it to shift, then it's more of a communal dog at that point. but there needs to be one solid point of ownership to that dog where there's like the the chain right there. and I was like, okay, that makes sense. Like I suppose, yeah, you can't have a dog just at the whim of whoever comes to work on that day, feeding it whatever drops on the floor and ignoring and stuff like that. So that version made a lot of sense to me, but you outline a different version and different model in your article. So why don't you run through that model real quick? Because it would the part I do appreciate was like, here's what it is and here's what it is not. And I think those are good fences to put up. It's it's not somebody's dog that they take from home. This dog actually lives at the station, but then it creates a routine, a shared routine of, you know, everybody pitches in to feed it or walk it, veterinary appointments, and they can each shift will do it. just it it works team bonding as well. Everybody just kind of pitches in and just cares for this this dog. So the model there again, I could it it ties into the wellness program. It gives guys a a set routine. I mean, in the fire service, it's chaotic sometimes. So we need we need structure. We need routines. We need all this stuff, which is why we, you know, come in, check our gear, rig check, air packs, and then we start our daily chores. that kind of ties in with the the dog throughout the day. making sure that he's fed, making sure he's walked, and it just kind of brings everybody into a Cohesive unit. Yeah, I think I think as I was kind of going through my brain, the benefits of having it being a station dog are maybe outweigh it from being someone's individual dog that they just share with when they're there, because if I'm not there, the dog isn't there, right? So today or yesterday, who knows if that dog was needed, but I that dog won't. but also like there's guys that don't like me. And so they might be like, Yeah, I want to go hang out with the dog, but Chris is a jerk, so I'm not gonna go do it today, right? There's a barrier, there's a human barrier there. As opposed to like this is station three's dog, and this is this is just our guy and he likes all of us equally and he's not Chris isn't gonna come in and pull him away because it's time to go have dinner. Like this is the station dog. And I was thinking also of like at face value, maybe some people see it as like, great, one more, one more thing I gotta take care of, right? I gotta take care of these EMS calls, I gotta take care of the nuisance calls and the trouble alarms, and now I gotta take care of this dog, like I gotta walk the dog. But also like that dog is s in my brain. I don't know where the division is. Maybe you can help me out with this. The dog's over here and the everything else is over here. Like there's a line of like caring for this thing that cares about me over here that the dog is in, and then the general public over on this side. I don't know what that is. Maybe you can go into that a little bit or what the psychologies of that. But that's how I I see it in my brain when I think about it. Yeah, the dog kind of just simply exists. he's in this area. we're dealing with all this stuff. And i again, it's just a resource of if we need him, he's there. And so it got our station dog that we have at Dalton is he just kind of moseys around. and we do just make sure yeah, and he's a big goofball. He's a loaf and but again, he's there if we need him. He, you know, does all this fun stuff as a normal dog. We open the door, he goes out. but yeah, I mean you s you're always gonna have those old timers that are just gonna be like, you know, I don't why do I I have to do so much. Why add one more thing? So and and to combat that is you're always gonna have somebody in the firehouse that's willing to step up, whether that's a proby or a guy that's trying to find his way within the three to five years of his career to maybe an old guy that's getting ready to retire, that wants a man's best friend kind of deal. So we you do get a a lot of pushback as far as I guess the the bigger picture is is how are we all gonna share these responsibilities? And In our work line of work, we have to have SOGs, SOPs, you have to have all this like basically paperwork and if you don't have it, then it doesn't exist. and that's something you gotta figure out as a crew before you consider having a station dog. It's not just a simple hey, we're gonna get a dog and then let the dog exist. Like there has to be some kind of structure that goes along with it. Do you guys now in your particular department or have you talked to people in other departments who are more transient between station to station or they move like we We pick every two years and there's likely a lot of movement, except for the top thirty guys. everybody else moves for one reason or another. So what happens when crews move? Does the dog stay at that station, or what's the ownership level then? How does that get figured out? Yeah, no, that is that is the station dog. So even if you're moving, you go to the other station, and a lot of guys that do that, they can feel a difference. They're like, man, I don't want to go down to station one today 'cause, you know, I ain't got, you know, the dog to play with today. So I I I've seen both sides of the coin here where they they a lot of guys are bidden for this department 'cause it's got a dog. So the mine mentality is there. Like they they understand it without understanding of what the dog is there for. Do you did you poll the members before implementing it and did you get any kind of feedback? I obviously you're saying this is more this like it takes a village to have this dog. did you s did you pull the members? Did you get feedback and did you see a shift in that mentality once the dog showed up? Like we have Several things that we pulled and guys have been like, not a chance, no way, don't want it. And then it happens. They're like, Fine, I'll do I'll take the overtime. Like, they'll do it, you know, maybe they're just putting up a little fence there at first. What are some what are some times that you can think of where like the guy who voted no, now he's laying on the floor rolling around with a dog, you know, covered in hair. Yep. Most I I did ask what life was like without the dogs and if they noticed a difference. And a lot of them have said, Yeah. And they actually they've this is their second station dog. that they've had. The first one now lives with one of the members on Dalton. And collectively as a group, they're like, Yeah, I think we need another another dog. So when it presented itself, they're everybody's like, Yeah, yeah, we gotta get one. So yeah, yeah, a lot of guys that'll ask that ha haven't, they're still a little iffy. They're like, Yeah, I mean it's just a dog. It's just simply there 'cause they haven't necessarily needed the dog for what it's intended's purpose, but I again you're always gonna have two sides of the coin on this. Dude, I I'm not sure if you even can even say that, right? I mean, I'm on blood pressure medication and according to the science, like this dog, I might not have to have a a critical call. This dog can just chill me out when I'm tired of doing paperwork. Yeah, I don't I don't necessarily wanna start saying that this dog is gonna cure all of this other stuff. No, it's not doing that. No. No, no. It is it's it's proven that the dogs lower cortisol. I mean it lowers the stress levels, it lowers accumulative stress and it it bridges the gap between silence and talking. You know, some guys they they don't really know what they're feeling just yet. And so when they see that dog, it gives them an opportunity to kind I wouldn't say distracting, but calming, at least getting a calm mind and just relaxing for a split second of okay, this is this is what I'm feeling. And then they're able to possibly go get help that they need. as far as I I don't want to get the dog into a habit of, you know, people come up and be like, you said dog will cure cancer here. And I'm not I'm not trying to say that, but there are proof there are statistics that say that dogs they do help lower stress levels and cortisol and all that. And blood pressure. When I'm petting my dog, man, my heart rate goes immediately down. I'm calm, I'm relaxed and everything else. Good man. It takes the right dog, right? Yeah. So how does it get you what's what's the method of use. Let's say you go on a call. I'm in a different station. and I go on a a critical call and I'm sitting there and all of a this dog walks in into my station. Am I like, crap, something bad happened. You know, like what's how does this thing how does this system work? no, I mean it's just like a any order ordinary day of, that's just a dog. And then y guys don't think about it. They just the dog comes up and they immediately start playing with him if he's friendly and It just your back of your brain just immediately starts your parasympathetic nervous system starts to calm down and then you don't even think twice about it. It's just a natural reaction that guys have to animals is when a it's just like the the same thing a a child comes up and has a fake teacup. What do you do? You pick it up and you sip it and you say, Mm, that's really nice tea. It's just a natural instinct that that we have as humans with dog relationships. So does this d will this dog travel? Will it get sent out to another station or do you invite guys in or I know it's not you don't want to use the dog as like a catalyst necessarily, you want to be a f a a fixture that you can take advantage of. But w is it able to be used reactively and be like, go talk to go talk to John? Like Yeah, yeah. i it if if if we've noticed that a guy's having a hard time, yeah, he'll travel with us and hang out with it. I mean, we all switch that we only got two stations, so we all kind of switch whoever's cooking dinner that night. We'll just go over there and chill out for dinner. And then, you know, if somebody's having a stressful day or station the other station had a bad call, yeah, we'll just bring the dog and he just chills with he's just another part of the family. Is it acceptable or possible for this to be a community outreach tool too? This is different than a grade school dog. But is there some crossover there or is there some leeway? Or we are we really trying to just keep this for the guys and keep it in the station and use it as a ever present resource for us? Yeah, I th I think it can be if it's the right breed. I mean we're in the age where you we can't force the dog on somebody. Like if they're coming to visit the station, that's the first thing they notice. Well, you guys got a dog? It's like, yeah. And then of course he loves the scratches and you know, attention anyways. it it can be an outreach where It can even be recruitment as well. You know, part of the the system there. it it it's free range to do whatever you want with it. I mean, he's literally a piece of the cohesive team that the department decides to build on. And each each department can have its own station dog or I've heard station cats. That's a another thing. But I we have those. I'm not gonna lie. They're not they never come in, but we have guys who have cut holes in coolers like the big Coleman old one coolers like the three foot four foot long ones. Yep. made cat apartments out there for They feed One one crew even made their stickers for their helmet with the cat as their logo. We're full of weirdos, dude. Like I'm not gonna support that. And that one's not flying fast the chief, but that's like a backyard. That's like a parking lot cat. See animals and they're like, now we're it's It's the same mind mentality, just different animal. It's yeah. How did you guys find the right dog? Does it it doesn't take necessarily a a company that specializes in firehouse dogs, although they might not give it to you if you were like, yeah, this is just gonna live in a building with 30 guys. Like it'll we'll figure it out. Like you gotta be a little more structured to that. I remember when I we when we adopted our dog, we had to have like a meeting of the old one and the new one. We had to do background I don't know, some kind of background check. They had to make sure we weren't gonna do crazy stuff with it or somehow. so what's the process for getting a dog in that's gonna be owned by the crew or owned by the the station? Yeah, I know there's there's a ton of programs, especially over by me, the Illinois the U of I has a program where it's their service dogs, but you just basically fell at an application and then you pick the right one. For us, it again, it was a stray. Like somebody dropped him off at the firehouse, he was in rough shape, so the guys were like, Yeah, this is we're we're gonna take care of him. And then so they spent countless hours training them, you know, feeding them, and just spending time with them. So picking the right one, I guess it's based on you you gotta have a collective bargaining of like, okay, what kind of breed do we want? you gotta check temperament, you gotta check energy level. I mean, obviously a fire department that's busy can't have a German shepherd. Those are vicious velociraptors when they're young. picking the right one, I guess it it's all opinion based. It's all based on what is the need of the department. you want, you know, that's why we pick labs. You know, labs are these big lap dogs that are goofy, they're fun, they're they're mild, energy, and then they just are lovable. Let's go back to something that I think shares a thread with our first quiz dog, Beethoven. This was a stray dog that got dropped off and you guys raised it to be your station dog. Yeah, yeah. I was under the impression that you went and and to a breeder or a boarder or someone like I had talked to and you went through the process of like they had had them pre temperament training, then they were service dogs, and you got this dog and you had a homegrown dog. Yeah, yeah. They they literally so comfortable. Yeah, he he just kinda wandered in the station with somebody, said they couldn't take care of him, so we we took him in. And yeah, I so again. that's happened twice and they got lucky. But I again I you can train any dog, you know, with the right right structure, the right people. so any dog can become a station dog, but you do have to consider public aggression, temperament and all that stuff. But get the basic household dog is what? It's a golden retriever or a lab. Yeah. do I do I think I I I did see a lot of pits, a lot of Urban firemen have pit bulls in there because they just again strays. So those are the most lovable dogs if you treat them right now. So you're saying in your looking around, you you talked with or met a lot of station dogs that were pit bulls and and the other breed. How common is this? It's in the in the urban urban fires, I mean I wouldn't it's a lack of a better term, but departments that they burn quite frequently, and they usually do have a station dog. But again, a lot of them just like, yeah, he's just here. He doesn't serve a purpose. He's just another member of the team. So the most recent one I talked to because he read the article was a guy from he was New York. And he they've had station dogs for, you know, twenty years. You know, when they get a new one and Again, they're all strays. This is such a crazy way to get a dog, dude. I've never like maybe it's just the area I'm in up here in northern Illinois where I just don't see that many straight dogs. You know, this is like my kid's dream of like the dog just wandered in and then now it's part of the family. Like this is Beethoven. Yeah. So what you're saying is amazing, but it's a wild, it's a wild way to get this dog thing going. Like if we just have open the admin doors and have it walk our chief's office and be I wandered in. Sorry, we gotta keep it now. Like Finders keepers, Chief. My bad. Yeah, they said the last one that they just had, they it was hanging around the station, so they'd feed him, and then he kept coming around. So finally one day the guy opened the bay door, walked in, and they had the little squad table, they had the couches over there, and then just plopped right on the couch and never left. Dude, unreal. It's not even on the books, it's not even a thing. It's just no wow. All right, so for for more for lack of a better word, for more litigious, I shouldn't even say that, for more heavily governed departments like mine and some up by me. Is there a path? Is there a good path to get this done? Obviously you you appealed to your chief. You did the research. You presented it. Is there a common path that you found through like vetted or or purpose built service dogs or therapy dogs to get them in the door at fire stations? Have you seen that path yet? I I haven't not specific for like station dogs like that, but I know there are Like PTSD dogs. There's programs everywhere in Chicago. the University of Illinois is really good at getting dogs for the right you know, they'll go in there, they do interviews, they train the dog and then they give to you, and then you can self-train if you want to. a lot of humane societies, they're really good at because you can you can pretty much give them a checkbox of dogs, like this is what we want out of this, this, this, this, and hand a sheet and they'll they'll match you with a correct dog. and that's basically what I've seen as far as research goes. And this took a this took a totally different turn. I love it. I love that it came out that this was a homegrown dog because it just it opens up a totally different way to do this. Like I think a lot of people when they read the article or when they think about a service dog being there, it's someone like I said, what a breeder made them into a service dog and now it's a specialty to specialty company that provides service dogs to XYZ, right? But it's a it's a really really cool thing to know that there's another avenue to it. You can simply, if you have the right environment and the right guys around you, guys and girls around you in the right department and timing, you can just get a dog and it can work out okay. And there's plenty of examples that you have of that working out just fine. So I think they're both on opposite ends the spectrum. And I'm just really happy that now I'm even more happy you wrote this article because it's bringing this other side that I would never thought of. More towards the middle, which is a crazy thing. I've never I've never heard of just a dog walking in and you just adopt that dog and just lives in the station. So I love that you brought this up, dude. It's crazy. I cannot let my kids watch this episode. It it it opens the floodgate. But this so people like when they hear of dogs in in any kind of profession, they think of a job. And so really the station dog is it can be anything, any kind of breed, because the the the dog really isn't there to perform a job. It doesn't it's not trained to specifically do a task. It's just existing. It's more of a of a therapy dog. So like the dogs that come to after like school shootings, right? They bring they bring dogs in there and they're not dogs aren't they they're not going to the person that's the saddest. They're just there. So it allows people that are normally s you know skeptical or like iffy on you know admitting that there's something wrong It gives them the ability to just coexist with them. And then that's when that the natural process of the calmness happens is I'm just petting the dog. So there's no there's no what'd you say, there's no link between the working dog and the person. They're just there. So if the person doesn't want to come up to the dog, they don't have to. But nine out of ten times they do. Just pat them on the head or something. to that fact because I think we're so used to there being a very specific purpose for each individual tool that we have. And so for something just to be there by something's pure existence being its job and them doing it is just a crazy it's something that we quite honestly fight against, right? You don't want that engineer just existing. Like get that guy out of here. The dog's whole job is just to exist and let us chill out for a second and one way or the other, right? Unknowingly or or or subconsciously or consciously. This is crazy, man. You're shifting my whole paradigm on these dog things because I think I'm I'm of that more regimented mentality because of what I grew up in in the departments around us, where it's like, what's this gu what is this dog going to accomplish today? Like, show me what it's done today. And that's not the point at all. And so it's just it shows you how scrambled my brain is from being around departments up here, right? But dude, I'm so glad that you're offering this perspective because there's often times where just cause what I'm used to doesn't mean it's the right way to do it. So I really dig on what you're saying of like, hey man, it's a dog and it's it's a great benefit and let's not overthink it and let's not make it have a checklist of responsibilities. It doesn't have PS tracks. There's no PS tracks for the dog, dude. So I really dig on what you're saying, man. What advice would you give people who saw read read your article or see this and they're like, I want to do that? Like, where would you start with that or how would you get the ball rolling? so it's all based on the wording. You you really have to try to sell it to the people that are willing. to talk fathom the idea. And that's when I said earlier, it has to be part of a wellness program. Right. So the fire services made great strides in mental health with peer support, getting resources to these guys. But that so being able to sell it to a chief or somebody that is backlash is a wellness program. Chief, it's just another wellness program. So one thing that we've noticed is the cumulative stress of a shift day as you you wake up You know, you go to shift, seven o'clock, the bell could ring. And you're constantly going through calls all day. And especially if you're at a busy firehouse, the dog is there to simply mitigate that accumulative stress and create an environment where guys are relaxed enough for the next call. So it meets the firemen where they're at, because if firemen were unconventional enough as it is, but trying to get a a guy that's been doing this for twenty years to sit there and say, you know what? You may have some PTST or you may have depression, you're going through some, he's gonna tell you, I'm fine, this it's the job I signed up for, I'm willing to do this. And then so that accumulative stress builds up, and then you know, that substance abuse comes into play and all this other gateways that are trying to so the dog is just simply there to prevent that from happening in the moment, because it's there, because the therapist isn't gonna show up to the station. I can't call my therapist after a bad call and be like, Hey, I've really got to chat with this. I don't have time for that. On especially on a twenty four or forty-eight hour shift. You ain't got time. So that that dog is there to bridge the gap between silence and talking. And not only do you have time, like, well, who what kind of crazy person would do that? Literally, what kind of crazy person would get back from call and call the therapist and be like, I gotta talk to you right now. Like what that's a wild, wild bridge to cross in the moment of being stressed out by something. and you're not gonna call your therapist and be like, Can you come over so I can scratch your belly real quick? Like, that's not a viable thing you gotta do. So might as well have a dog, dude. That's what I was saying. It and that's I guess that's that's where the the the wellness programs are kind of faulty that I've noticed is even after the after action report, they have 24 hours to bring somebody in to talk about the call that's serious. And that's 24 hours is a long time. Even four hours and somebody that is Just needs needs some time. Like I need some space. I gotta figure this. I gotta process it myself. Four hours is you know, thinking in your inside your head already is a long time. So that dog can kind of be that that that space of, all right, maybe I I don't have to think about this just yet. Yeah. And what about for I I was gonna wrap this up, but just as we're touching on these different aspects of this, what about admin or chiefs or leaders who say like, well, we don't go to that much bad stuff anyways. Like we don't need a dog because we're not doing these terrible things necessarily every day. Like we have resources and it's so infrequent that I just don't think the dog's gonna fill the need if we're just just using it for critical incidents. Well stress is stress. I mean waking up at three o'clock in the morning, your heart rate goes from, you know, low fifties, sixties to a hundred and twenty and then you're running this call. Even if it's toe pain, you're still getting lack of sleep. You're still the stress of You know, you think in the in the eyes of a proby, right? They're stressed probably the whole shift because they they wanna do good, they're they're overthinking things. What if I mess up? What if I do this? So stress is stress, whether it's, you know, a major call or the stress of daily work. So I I think you know, again, it it it all comes down to the wording of how we're how are we gonna word this to the chief? It is a wellness program, but it's not just for major calls. It's for the stress of being in the fire service. Yeah. I think it I think this is really going to speak to chiefs and leaders and people on the inside who see the vast difference between like just getting by and like, we don't really need this. We're getting by. We're fine. Like we're always kind of hovering around 50%. And then the people who are like, we are hovering around 50% all the time. But this can be just something that takes us up higher when the when available. Right. And so I think there's a lot of thinking now of like find the problem Chip away at the problem, solve it, blah, blah, blah. And then we kind of end up in this middle zone of like back and forth for quite some time. But it sounds like that's where that dog lives. And if it's needed, it's needed. And it's not, maybe it is anyways. And it just is a nice little buffer to get us beyond just surviving this thing and into some positive, some positive lifestyle around the firehouse, you know, for I should say more positive, because it's going to make a a bad house good. It's going to make a good house even better. So it's just going to accentuate whatever you got going on there. Keith, this is good, man. Yeah. What do you have anything else you want to leave leave with? any kind of nuggets you want to drop in. I think we covered a lot of ground, but more than open to anything else you got. Yeah, so I right now the there's there's really no research on station dogs. So I'm trying to get together a a cohort study, a a survey, I know another survey, where I I send send these departments that are willing to fathom the idea of a station dog. I got I got a little survey that I send out to these guys. They fill it out and then we monitor them within three, six, and twelve months. And then they send back the other survey. So I because I I want I want real data on this. I want I want to show true numbers of this is making a difference. because that that's the majority of my pushback now is well there's not it's just your word of mouth right now. And I'm you know you you can't you can't tell people like Bro, I know. Trust me. So I guess if if if a department is, you know, wanting to go this route as altering a a good wellness program, they can hit me up on Facebook. they can hit me up by email and then I can send them that survey and they can just send it back and we'll see how it goes. That that's the true end goal of this. Say what that stuff is though. Say your Facebook and then your email address people to you want people to contact you at. yeah, yeah. Facebook is just Keith Shields. it's you'll you'll know it's me. and then my my email is Shields9 at Illinois.edu. and then yeah, I'm available twenty four seven. I'll answer questions at any time. and just hopefully they convince them to get this stationed up. Yeah, I mean if you're if you're low on funds and you're interested in this program and you just go hang out Around Dalton, apparently you're just gonna get a dog, dude. Like I don't know what to tell you. Like go hang around the Dalton fire stations enough and you'll get just get a dog. It's great. If they and this the funny thing about it is I wrote that I wrote that article in another station and I got hired on Dalton and I came there knowing not knowing they had a station dog and my mind was just blown and then from there it was, you know, just the research upon research. The stars are lined on this one for sure. That's wild, man. Keith, thank you, man. Thank you so much for Everything. That was really cool. That took a turn. I did not expect to be challenged in my idea of what these service animals do, but that was awesome, man. I appreciate it. Well, thanks for having me. I it was enjoyable. thanks for reading the article. Yeah, very cool, man. Thank you. We'll talk to you soon.