Latest / Leading By Example: Executives Making An Impact / Going With Your Gut: Vanessa Dew, Co-founder of Health-ade Kombucha

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Going With Your Gut: Vanessa Dew, Co-founder of Health-ade Kombucha · Leading By Example: Executives Making An Impact

0:03
Speaker 1: Movie. We are the bell of the ball and Beverage.
0:09
Speaker 2: We're growing like everything from the outside looked great, but
0:12
Speaker 2: I remember inside I felt this emotional turmoil with the team.
0:18
Speaker 2: The team is giving it, they're all, but they're tired
0:20
Speaker 2: and exhausted. It's unsustainable. I just foresaw that if we
0:24
Speaker 2: don't change how we're approaching this, my leadership style specifically,
0:28
Speaker 2: it's almost going to be like an implosion.
0:33
Speaker 3: What happens when your company's metrics are going through the roof,
0:37
Speaker 3: but your team's morale is free falling.
0:44
Speaker 2: Hi.
0:44
Speaker 3: Everyone, I'm Jessica chen Emmy Award winning journalist, founder of
0:48
Speaker 3: Soulcast Media, a communication training company, and author of the
0:52
Speaker 3: book Smart Not Loud, How to Get noticed at work
0:55
Speaker 3: For all the right reasons, this was a problem. Vanessad
0:59
Speaker 3: faced as the co founder and eventual CEO of Health
1:02
Speaker 3: Aid Kombucha, one of the biggest kombucha brands in the world,
1:06
Speaker 3: and by twenty seventeen, the company looked like it was thriving.
1:09
Speaker 3: On paper, growth was off the charts and customers couldn't
1:13
Speaker 3: get enough. But inside the pressure was on. This was
1:17
Speaker 3: no longer the small farmers market operation from five years earlier.
1:22
Speaker 3: This was a whole different ballgame, one that required a
1:25
Speaker 3: new set of leadership skills. So Vanessa went to work
1:29
Speaker 3: on herself to figure out what she could do to
1:32
Speaker 3: get the company back on a sustainable path. In this conversation,
1:36
Speaker 3: you'll hear about the subtle ways leaders shape culture sometimes
1:41
Speaker 3: without realizing it. Vanessa explains why it's less about having
1:45
Speaker 3: all the answers and more about asking the right questions,
1:50
Speaker 3: because sometimes the bravest leadership move isn't pushing yourself or
1:55
Speaker 3: your team harder. It's identifying how you can change the
1:59
Speaker 3: game or the better. I'm Jessica Chen and this is
2:04
Speaker 3: Leading by Example.
2:09
Speaker 4: Vanessa.
2:10
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining me on Leading by Example.
2:14
Speaker 3: We've been friends for a few years now and I'm
2:17
Speaker 3: so thrilled to be speaking with you today.
2:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am so honored to be next to you
2:21
Speaker 2: as a friend on this podcast, So thank you for
2:23
Speaker 2: having me.
2:24
Speaker 3: So for those who don't know who you are, can
2:26
Speaker 3: you just do a quick intro of your bio, your background,
2:29
Speaker 3: and your experience.
2:31
Speaker 2: My name is Vanessa do I'm here because I started
2:33
Speaker 2: healthy kombucha. Previous to that was in pharmaceutical sales. Now
2:38
Speaker 2: an investor and advisor to emerging CYPG brands, also a mom,
2:43
Speaker 2: so I'm heavily involved with my two young kids, five
2:45
Speaker 2: year old and three year old.
2:47
Speaker 3: Can you tell me a little bit about you, know,
2:48
Speaker 3: where you were born and raised and what it was
2:50
Speaker 3: like growing up.
2:51
Speaker 2: So I'm from La My parents were immigrants from Hong
2:54
Speaker 2: Kong and Shanghai, and just as a daughter of an immigrant,
2:58
Speaker 2: first born birth order is a thing. I would say
3:01
Speaker 2: that I was always trying to do my best. Perfectionists,
3:04
Speaker 2: I'm a virgo, and they always wanted the best for me.
3:08
Speaker 2: I eventually went to go study science at U See
3:11
Speaker 2: San Diego, wanting to be a doctor. I wanted to
3:14
Speaker 2: cure my mom's cancer at the time, but as a
3:16
Speaker 2: very altruistic goal with very limited means to do so,
3:21
Speaker 2: so I decided to pivot and go into business, and
3:24
Speaker 2: that's how I ended up in the pharmaceuticals and at
3:26
Speaker 2: business school at USC.
3:28
Speaker 3: How did you even decide to start this company, because
3:31
Speaker 3: back in the twenty tens when you first started this company,
3:35
Speaker 3: this was not very much a mainstream thing. What made
3:38
Speaker 3: you and your co founders think let's do this?
3:42
Speaker 2: So when we were starting and just ideating businesses, it wasn't.
3:47
Speaker 2: Kombucha was our life's work and we wanted to get
3:49
Speaker 2: into this. We took a little bit more of a
3:52
Speaker 2: measured approach because I was in business school at the time,
3:54
Speaker 2: and it was more of Okay, what are the problems
3:57
Speaker 2: in the world, what could be the solution, and that
4:00
Speaker 2: will be our business. So with kombucha and health Aid.
4:03
Speaker 2: How we came upon that is Justin was working for
4:06
Speaker 2: a hair loss company at the time. He kept on saying,
4:08
Speaker 2: the opportunity is huge in this space. Let's create something
4:12
Speaker 2: that's an all natural.
4:13
Speaker 1: Solution to hair loss.
4:15
Speaker 2: So my partner at Dinah, she was a nutritionist, she said, anecdote,
4:19
Speaker 2: this could be good for hair loss. We started doing
4:21
Speaker 2: more research and we started to create kombucha for hair loss.
4:26
Speaker 2: So it is nothing related to drinking. That was more
4:29
Speaker 2: of the byproduct of what we were going to create,
4:31
Speaker 2: which was a hair loss mask from kombucha. But then
4:34
Speaker 2: we ultimately pivoted and started selling health Aid as a beverage.
4:38
Speaker 3: So was this all happening while you were all working
4:40
Speaker 3: at a corporate job at the time.
4:42
Speaker 2: Yes, So me and Dinah were working at a fortune
4:44
Speaker 2: fifty company pharmaceutical company. Justin was working for a privately
4:48
Speaker 2: owned hair loss company, but huge cash flow, and so
4:52
Speaker 2: he saw a lot of the business deals. And so
4:54
Speaker 2: we were all working our nine to five jobs. We're
4:56
Speaker 2: all in our mid twenties, all wanting something different and
4:59
Speaker 2: better for us. But instead of running this corporate hamster wheel.
5:03
Speaker 3: Why did you want to leave the corporate hamster wheel?
5:07
Speaker 2: I just remember I was in pharmaceutical sales at the time,
5:10
Speaker 2: and just the nature of the business. I felt like
5:14
Speaker 2: I wasn't able to step into a place of leadership,
5:18
Speaker 2: a place of really having my own voice there. The
5:21
Speaker 2: business of pharmaceuticals was idealized to me, I think when
5:26
Speaker 2: I first started, and what it actually was was a
5:28
Speaker 2: totally different thing. And then for me and also my
5:31
Speaker 2: co founders, we just wanted to build something of impact,
5:34
Speaker 2: and you can't do that when you're a cog in
5:36
Speaker 2: the wheel.
5:37
Speaker 3: But it makes me wonder that experience of you working
5:40
Speaker 3: in pharma, working in sales, what did that start to
5:43
Speaker 3: teach you about leadership? Specifically what you might not want
5:47
Speaker 3: to do now as a leader of your own company.
5:51
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Okay, so three specific things. One is
5:54
Speaker 2: the type of manager I wanted to be or not
5:57
Speaker 2: be blessed or her. I think one of the managers
6:00
Speaker 2: I had at that job, she was so on it,
6:04
Speaker 2: such a micromanager of sorts that I saw the way
6:08
Speaker 2: that she was demotivating to some of the top players
6:11
Speaker 2: on our team. She was doing emails like super late.
6:14
Speaker 2: She was just expecting everyone to be on twenty four
6:17
Speaker 2: to seven. That it wasn't sustainable. So that was a
6:21
Speaker 2: big eye opener for me. Second is just your ability
6:25
Speaker 2: to tap into human potential with EQ And at the time,
6:29
Speaker 2: I don't think I had it or I didn't quite
6:31
Speaker 2: know how to leverage it, and so I knew that
6:34
Speaker 2: that was a big deal, but I had to really
6:37
Speaker 2: learn it on the job when I started health Aid,
6:40
Speaker 2: especially as we started hiring employees. And then the third
6:42
Speaker 2: thing is just this ability to communicate. And what I
6:47
Speaker 2: mean by that is how you hold yourself like people
6:50
Speaker 2: will believe. So if you hold yourself, you know, in
6:53
Speaker 2: a smaller position, if you are communicating to someone else
6:57
Speaker 2: that you're in a weaker position, they'll believe that. You know,
7:00
Speaker 2: so you really have to step into the place that
7:03
Speaker 2: you need to be a little bit of fake it
7:06
Speaker 2: till you make it, because you know there's many meeting
7:09
Speaker 2: we were in that no one thought we believed we
7:11
Speaker 2: should be in, but we were confident about it for
7:14
Speaker 2: ourselves and communicated that way.
7:16
Speaker 3: So the three lessons that I'm hearing is number one,
7:19
Speaker 3: not be the kind of micromanaging manager that you had,
7:23
Speaker 3: because that did not help you your productivity, your efficiency.
7:25
Speaker 3: Perhaps it caused you a lot of anxiety in that job.
7:28
Speaker 3: Developing EQ emotional intelligence and just straight up communications.
7:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. Those three biggest takeaways.
7:36
Speaker 3: So while you're in pharma, you and your co founders
7:39
Speaker 3: were starting to toy with the idea of like, okay,
7:41
Speaker 3: let's start our own thing.
7:42
Speaker 4: We have that drive and we're willing.
7:44
Speaker 3: To take that risk, right, Okay, kombucha not hair loss drink.
7:49
Speaker 3: Tell me about that.
7:51
Speaker 1: Yeah.
7:51
Speaker 2: So once we decided to pivot from hair loss to
7:54
Speaker 2: train you that okay, so how do we get it
7:56
Speaker 2: out to consumers? The thing about us, we call ourselves
7:59
Speaker 2: a trifecta and justin and from time a pivot to
8:02
Speaker 2: actually getting the bottle in someone's hands to buy, it's
8:05
Speaker 2: probably sixty days, so arguably very quick and the easiest
8:10
Speaker 2: way for us to get products out to sell was
8:13
Speaker 2: to the farmer's market.
8:15
Speaker 3: What did you learn in that experience of setting up
8:17
Speaker 3: your own stall talking to consumers?
8:20
Speaker 4: I imagine that was a huge learning experience.
8:22
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, so when we got placed in our stall,
8:25
Speaker 2: no one was coming to our table. So we learned
8:28
Speaker 2: very quickly that we needed to go proactively to sample
8:32
Speaker 2: people say, Hi, have you tried kombucha before?
8:34
Speaker 1: Yes or no?
8:35
Speaker 2: If they haven't, then you can start at step one like, okay,
8:39
Speaker 2: kombucha is a fermented.
8:40
Speaker 1: Tea, what is it?
8:41
Speaker 2: Healthy acids, probiotics, and you kind of walk them through
8:45
Speaker 2: quick bites of how to message your product in a
8:47
Speaker 2: way that they will digest and understand. Because if you
8:50
Speaker 2: hear bacteria for your gut, you might like turn and run.
8:54
Speaker 2: But if you hear something that is totally around probiotics,
8:58
Speaker 2: healthy acids, for me, just try, you know. It was like,
9:01
Speaker 2: those are sound bites that you can get behind.
9:04
Speaker 3: What did you learn about communicating to somebody who is skeptical.
9:08
Speaker 2: Communicating with confidence, betting on yourself and betting to that
9:12
Speaker 2: person like that you are willing to do what it
9:15
Speaker 2: takes to allow them to believe you. So oftentimes, you know,
9:20
Speaker 2: do my spiel and I would say like just try it,
9:22
Speaker 2: like literally, try two shots, walk around the market. If
9:26
Speaker 2: you don't like it, I will give you your money back.
9:29
Speaker 2: Just try that. So it was very much like a guarantee.
9:33
Speaker 2: I think sometimes people are hesitant to do something like
9:36
Speaker 2: that because you don't believe in your product, or you
9:38
Speaker 2: don't believe in something like the customer may be shy
9:40
Speaker 2: about something and that skepticism that you're talking about, and
9:44
Speaker 2: so communicating that confidence really instills in them like wow,
9:48
Speaker 2: like okay, maybe there's something here, and they would always
9:51
Speaker 2: come back. There was always one hundred percent pass for
9:54
Speaker 2: it here. Everyone loved it. That's like the biggest thing
9:57
Speaker 2: is communicating with confidence.
9:59
Speaker 3: All right, So starting in a farmer's market, then tell
10:01
Speaker 3: me what happens from there.
10:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, So from a farmer's market, we started going into wholesale,
10:08
Speaker 2: so just distribution around Los Angeles. I think that first
10:11
Speaker 2: year in twenty thirteen, we're in two hundred and fifty
10:14
Speaker 2: stores around Los Angeles, so all the hot spots of LA.
10:18
Speaker 2: And then from there we got noticed by some larger
10:21
Speaker 2: chains by our investors, and so from there it really
10:26
Speaker 2: cemented us in a place of strength to really grow
10:29
Speaker 2: our distribution.
10:30
Speaker 3: Can you tell me about hiring during that early period, Like,
10:33
Speaker 3: I imagine, when you're hiring, you can make some great hires,
10:37
Speaker 3: but there also might be some mistakes as well.
10:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the biggest mistake was when I had, you know,
10:44
Speaker 2: that feeling in your gut when you're like there's a
10:46
Speaker 2: little bit of a red flag. And I didn't listen
10:48
Speaker 2: to that gut feeling. So every time there's been a
10:52
Speaker 2: bad example of hiring, there's always been a red flag
10:55
Speaker 2: that I just that gut feeling I was like that I.
10:58
Speaker 1: Didn't look into more.
11:00
Speaker 2: One example was an investor had suggested an employee, and
11:04
Speaker 2: so being new to this space of CpG of beverage,
11:08
Speaker 2: I almost felt like I trusted too blindly this person
11:13
Speaker 2: of seemingly power and experience of delivering a quality employee
11:18
Speaker 2: to our business. And so that was the red flag
11:21
Speaker 2: I didn't listen to. This person was our first distant
11:24
Speaker 2: hire outside of LA headquarters. I was more waiting for
11:28
Speaker 2: that person to give me the feedback on how it
11:31
Speaker 2: was on the ground. But then I had so many
11:33
Speaker 2: questions and so much anxiety about you know, what do
11:36
Speaker 2: the stores look like? What is the status with these accounts?
11:39
Speaker 2: And I didn't set up the right feedback loop around
11:41
Speaker 2: the information that I needed to hear as a manager,
11:45
Speaker 2: And so I didn't create the right I think, one
11:48
Speaker 2: on one relationship around what it meant to deliver back
11:53
Speaker 2: information to me. I think I assumed, having so much
11:56
Speaker 2: experience in this space, there'd be a natural you tell
11:59
Speaker 2: me what to do. But I should have set up
12:01
Speaker 2: the systems beforehand, because they were actually looking for more guidance.
12:05
Speaker 2: When I assumed, you know, they're great, they already had
12:07
Speaker 2: so much experience.
12:09
Speaker 3: Interesting, So is it more like what you learned was
12:12
Speaker 3: about setting expectations, having clear expectations, because that wasn't set early.
12:16
Speaker 1: That's a great way to us summarize it.
12:18
Speaker 3: Obviously this was you know, one person, one experience. You
12:20
Speaker 3: learned a lot, But moving forward, what did you take
12:23
Speaker 3: from that experience?
12:24
Speaker 2: I realized I needed to up my managerial game, so
12:27
Speaker 2: one I hired an executive coach at that time too,
12:31
Speaker 2: So really kind of honing in on what you were
12:33
Speaker 2: talking about, I was like, Okay, let's set the expectations
12:36
Speaker 2: up front. Let's create the cadence in which I need
12:39
Speaker 2: to hear information back then, Also, like the how like
12:44
Speaker 2: the systems in which we were, so was it through
12:46
Speaker 2: text or email? Like making sure we felt good about
12:50
Speaker 2: that two way information street.
12:52
Speaker 3: I love that because it reminds me. You know, I
12:54
Speaker 3: teach communications, and I always talk about how we all
12:57
Speaker 3: have different communication preferences, like how I prefer to communicate
13:00
Speaker 3: might be same or different from you, And you know,
13:02
Speaker 3: part of making sure that we're always communicating is making
13:05
Speaker 3: sure we're communicating the way the other person wants to
13:08
Speaker 3: receive it right. And I think that's exactly to your point.
13:13
Speaker 3: I'm speaking with Vanessa Do, co founder of health Aid Kombucha.
13:17
Speaker 3: But let's take a quick break more from our conversation
13:20
Speaker 3: in just a few Welcome back to leading by Example.
13:32
Speaker 3: My guest is Vanessa d co founder of health Aid Kombucha,
13:35
Speaker 3: the popular beverage company that dominated throughout the twenty tens
13:39
Speaker 3: and beyond. Okay, so the company is growing. You know,
13:45
Speaker 3: you are now in thousands of stores. You are managing
13:49
Speaker 3: how many employees at this point.
13:51
Speaker 2: Probably eighty corporate employees over one hundred manufacturing employees.
13:56
Speaker 3: Okay, So as a company grew, how did your leadership
13:59
Speaker 3: style change?
14:00
Speaker 2: So it went from doing everything and having you know,
14:04
Speaker 2: one to one with basically everyone to know the amount
14:08
Speaker 2: of people. You can't do that anymore. We had some
14:10
Speaker 2: town hall meetings. It was only seven people at the time,
14:13
Speaker 2: but then it grew to like one hundred and fifty,
14:15
Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty, so I think up to maybe
14:18
Speaker 2: employee like fifty.
14:20
Speaker 1: I think.
14:21
Speaker 2: I felt like I always needed to know the answers
14:23
Speaker 2: people were like coming to you, like, Okay, what do
14:25
Speaker 2: you want to do?
14:26
Speaker 1: What do you want to do? I felt the real.
14:28
Speaker 2: Turning point for me was when I became more vulnerable
14:31
Speaker 2: in the way that I led to allow people to
14:33
Speaker 2: step into what I needed them to be. So that
14:37
Speaker 2: comes with honesty of myself and kind of where I am,
14:40
Speaker 2: and also just like plainly saying the thing that I needed,
14:44
Speaker 2: rather than having you know, a shield up almost of
14:48
Speaker 2: invincibility and saying, this is what we must do because
14:51
Speaker 2: at a certain point, you hire people because they have
14:54
Speaker 2: subject matter expertise that you want them to take your
14:57
Speaker 2: company to the next height, right, And so from that
15:00
Speaker 2: was a big learning And this was also around the
15:02
Speaker 2: same time when I was really trying to learn how
15:05
Speaker 2: to be better at my personal relationships too, so it
15:08
Speaker 2: was kind of like a two for one. I was
15:09
Speaker 2: like trying to be more vulnerable and how I was
15:12
Speaker 2: in a personal relationship, and I just saw how reaping
15:15
Speaker 2: the benefits of that turning point in all aspects of
15:19
Speaker 2: my life really turned the corner.
15:21
Speaker 3: Was there a specific incident that happened that made you go,
15:24
Speaker 3: wait a second, like I need to be way more open,
15:27
Speaker 3: vulnerable in order for me and the business to move forward.
15:31
Speaker 4: Was there something that happened.
15:32
Speaker 2: Well, it was more so around probably twenty seventeen. And
15:36
Speaker 2: at this point we were the bell of the ball
15:39
Speaker 2: and beverage. We're growing, Like everything from the outside looked great,
15:42
Speaker 2: but I remember inside up until that point, it was like, well,
15:45
Speaker 2: here's the strategy of where we need to go. And
15:48
Speaker 2: it was very easy to just tell the employees. In
15:51
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, we had turned the corner with our out
15:53
Speaker 2: of stocks. We had a whole new facility. The world
15:56
Speaker 2: was our oyster, really and it was more so like, okay,
16:00
Speaker 2: I also need you guys to be able to tell me, like,
16:02
Speaker 2: how are we going to do this because the trade offs,
16:05
Speaker 2: Like you guys are telling me you're tired, like this
16:07
Speaker 2: is unsustainable growth, Well tell me, like what's possible? Because
16:11
Speaker 2: it was almost to the point where all the employees
16:13
Speaker 2: were giving it. They're all but to what end? Like
16:16
Speaker 2: where are we going with it? Like it's just going
16:18
Speaker 2: to be more and more and more, And so I
16:20
Speaker 2: felt this emotional turmoil with the team, and yet I
16:25
Speaker 2: also saw so much opportunity, but I didn't know how
16:29
Speaker 2: to just say more and more and more, like we're
16:31
Speaker 2: also not you know, this dictator is saying like go more, right,
16:35
Speaker 2: and so that wouldn't be possible. It almost felt like
16:38
Speaker 2: it was going to be a boiling pot of just energy,
16:41
Speaker 2: like the team is giving it, they're all, but they're
16:43
Speaker 2: tired and exhausted. It's unsustainable. There's so much opportunity to
16:47
Speaker 2: capitalize on, Like how do we do it? I just
16:50
Speaker 2: foresaw that if we don't change how we're approaching this,
16:54
Speaker 2: my leadership style specifically, it's almost going to be like
16:58
Speaker 2: an implosion. And so oh, I remember it was that
17:01
Speaker 2: planning year, and I remember going to some key people
17:03
Speaker 2: and saying like I can't alone say where we need
17:07
Speaker 2: to go, Like I want you to step into the
17:10
Speaker 2: role that I know that you can be and tell me,
17:12
Speaker 2: like what is the path? What is it? Twenty percent
17:14
Speaker 2: of business we need to focus on to tackle the
17:16
Speaker 2: eighty percent, like working smart, not harder, because there's too
17:20
Speaker 2: much that a team, even though we were quite large
17:23
Speaker 2: at that point, we can't take it all on. So
17:25
Speaker 2: it was really those types of discussions that allow people
17:28
Speaker 2: to also step into the role. They felt more empowered
17:30
Speaker 2: about their jobs, like they had a voice in like
17:34
Speaker 2: what the direction was to And I think that's what
17:36
Speaker 2: was needed at that point too.
17:38
Speaker 3: I can't even imagine, Like you said it so beautifully,
17:41
Speaker 3: the business was like the.
17:43
Speaker 4: Bell of the ball.
17:44
Speaker 3: All these opportunities almost end this opportunities you can go
17:47
Speaker 3: wherever you wanted to go, But internally people are like
17:50
Speaker 3: feeling this to your point turmoil, like what happens now?
17:53
Speaker 3: Like I can't handle it, And it's kind of like
17:55
Speaker 3: you need both to work in harmony in order for
17:57
Speaker 3: you to grow and for you you're like, wait a second,
18:00
Speaker 3: I cannot sustain this way.
18:01
Speaker 1: Yeah.
18:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the vulnerability part was you saying what.
18:07
Speaker 2: I was like, Look, you guys have come to me
18:09
Speaker 2: to make the decision, and I'm happy to for a
18:12
Speaker 2: very long time, but at this point I need you
18:15
Speaker 2: guys because I don't have the answers. And I think
18:18
Speaker 2: just saying that I think I was worried saying that
18:21
Speaker 2: type of sentence would instill doubt.
18:24
Speaker 1: Or fear in the leader that I am.
18:27
Speaker 2: But my executive coach really helped me to see, like
18:29
Speaker 2: a business grew from zero to this, it's really incredible,
18:33
Speaker 2: how do we make it more incredible? And you're just saying, like,
18:36
Speaker 2: I don't have all the answers, that's why you're here,
18:38
Speaker 2: and I need your help. And I think those two sentences,
18:42
Speaker 2: like I don't have all the answers, I need your
18:43
Speaker 2: help actually is also what I'm trying to practice my
18:46
Speaker 2: personal life now still. But that really allowed people to
18:50
Speaker 2: have insight around like I have the ability to make
18:54
Speaker 2: my voice known to basically curate and like have the
18:58
Speaker 2: paint brush of like direct where this business can go.
19:01
Speaker 3: So instead of you having to have all the answers,
19:03
Speaker 3: you're like, wait a second, you tell me what do
19:05
Speaker 3: you think? Right, it's like kind of changing the direction
19:07
Speaker 3: of the conversation.
19:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I actually felt like that really changed not
19:12
Speaker 2: just my leadership and communication style, but also my ability
19:16
Speaker 2: to do more in the business too, because I think
19:18
Speaker 2: I said I didn't want to be that micromanaging person
19:21
Speaker 2: at my farmer life. I think a part of me
19:24
Speaker 2: was still holding on to so much. This allowed me
19:26
Speaker 2: to like loosen the reins a little bit.
19:28
Speaker 3: So in twenty twenty one, First BEB acquired a controlling
19:31
Speaker 3: stake in Health Aid, So then that started to change
19:34
Speaker 3: the dynamic of leadership as well. Did that feel strange
19:38
Speaker 3: to you in the sense where there's an external CEO
19:40
Speaker 3: now running, but you, as a co founder.
19:43
Speaker 4: Are still part of the business, Like, what does that
19:44
Speaker 4: feel like?
19:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, quite literally, it's like you gave your
19:48
Speaker 2: baby up for adoption, but you live in the same house.
19:51
Speaker 2: That's what it felt like, and Health Aid being my
19:53
Speaker 2: first baby, because you gave up kind of this majority stake,
19:57
Speaker 2: but you're still there in the business, operating on a
20:00
Speaker 2: more limited basis, so you're there in the action, but
20:04
Speaker 2: not in the driver's seat. It didn't feel like I
20:06
Speaker 2: lost anything, but it felt like you gave up rights
20:10
Speaker 2: in the way which you did.
20:12
Speaker 4: So how did you change your leadership style in that
20:14
Speaker 4: particular situation.
20:16
Speaker 2: Transition times always call, I think for a leadership style
20:19
Speaker 2: that is both empathetic, listening even more so, and then
20:25
Speaker 2: also being able to verbalize what's needed in the group
20:30
Speaker 2: to In this case, our investors and that new CEO.
20:34
Speaker 2: So for me, it was more about empathizing with the
20:37
Speaker 2: team to make sure that everyone still felt supporting their
20:39
Speaker 2: jobs because we still had the business to run. It
20:42
Speaker 2: was listening a whole lot more around like what's going
20:44
Speaker 2: on out there, and it was more like give me
20:46
Speaker 2: the skinny. I was like trying to really understand, like
20:48
Speaker 2: what's not being said really and then being able to
20:52
Speaker 2: articulate that with the CEO and the investors at that time,
20:55
Speaker 2: So like just around like employee morale, the direction and
21:00
Speaker 2: making sure we're not just me but everyone was on
21:03
Speaker 2: a unified talk track in that way to help instill
21:07
Speaker 2: confidence in the team in time of transition. I think
21:10
Speaker 2: that's always what leaders are looking to do.
21:12
Speaker 3: Now, at a certain point, you then took over as
21:15
Speaker 3: a CEO as well, How did that change again?
21:19
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, So then ultimately made the decision for a
21:23
Speaker 2: changing leadership and came in as interim CEO, And that
21:27
Speaker 2: needed a different version of me addressing a company and
21:30
Speaker 2: navigating through transition, and it needed not just empathy, but
21:34
Speaker 2: it needed like decision making, clarity a vision and in
21:39
Speaker 2: all like the last ten years, clarity of vision was important.
21:42
Speaker 2: But I would say even more so now because of
21:44
Speaker 2: this leadership change. And then there was also the communication
21:48
Speaker 2: and leadership with stakeholders, so like that being our new
21:51
Speaker 2: investors who were on the board. So it was very
21:55
Speaker 2: much a multi pronged communication effort and just stepping into
22:00
Speaker 2: parts of me that I guess we're always used, but
22:04
Speaker 2: in a way I thought I needed to be a
22:07
Speaker 2: strong rock and anchor for the company most of all,
22:10
Speaker 2: because within one year there was just so much change,
22:13
Speaker 2: and my job at that time was just to continue
22:17
Speaker 2: to instill confidence in our brand, our product, what we
22:20
Speaker 2: were trying to do, what our purpose was, and if
22:24
Speaker 2: we were changing course on anything, clearly communicating what and why.
22:28
Speaker 3: And then after you came in a CEO, you also
22:31
Speaker 3: then decided we need to hire another CEO. I can't
22:35
Speaker 3: even imagine what was going through your mind, your emotions
22:38
Speaker 3: during that period of time.
22:40
Speaker 2: I mean, quite honestly, like even before the majority sale,
22:43
Speaker 2: like I was ready to leave, but often you don't
22:46
Speaker 2: communicate that to your employees or really anyone. And my
22:51
Speaker 2: co founders knew this, and my husband knew this, but
22:53
Speaker 2: I was done, like it was a twelve year sprint
22:55
Speaker 2: at that point, and you really tired. I just had
22:58
Speaker 2: my first baby, pregnant my second. I was like ready,
23:02
Speaker 2: but at that time I needed to step in a
23:05
Speaker 2: CEO because there was no other option at that exact
23:08
Speaker 2: time and the company needed a steadfastness. Really I was
23:13
Speaker 2: happy to do it for the business, but it was
23:15
Speaker 2: time for me, from like a soulful level to just
23:18
Speaker 2: leave the seat and hire someone else in.
23:20
Speaker 3: I think it takes a lot of like vulnerability in
23:23
Speaker 3: many ways to go, you know what, I'm ready, like,
23:25
Speaker 3: I'm ready to kind of close this chapter.
23:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was it was time, like it was
23:30
Speaker 2: a very vulnerable time. I mean as a mom yourself,
23:33
Speaker 2: I think you remember like the hormones postpartum like still,
23:37
Speaker 2: and so for me, I was battling every day almost
23:42
Speaker 2: not feeling like myself because that's just how you feel
23:45
Speaker 2: after having a baby, but then you need it to
23:47
Speaker 2: be every.
23:48
Speaker 1: Part of yourself for your business.
23:50
Speaker 2: It was almost this duality that it really took everything
23:55
Speaker 2: from me.
23:56
Speaker 3: I want to read this quode because I think it
23:58
Speaker 3: sums up perfectly. During this period of time, you know,
24:00
Speaker 3: beyond the financial reward, which was you exiting, I felt
24:03
Speaker 3: freedom from this beverage business I loved, but have given
24:07
Speaker 3: too much of myself to maintain a healthy relationship with it.
24:11
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yep still stands. Yeah.
24:16
Speaker 2: I mean I am the type of person that will
24:19
Speaker 2: just give it my all, like.
24:21
Speaker 1: Whatever I am in and in.
24:24
Speaker 2: This case health Aid, it was everything that I had.
24:27
Speaker 1: What we had.
24:29
Speaker 2: I remember saying, like, we are the sacrificial lamps of
24:31
Speaker 2: this business every day, and when you're a founder, like
24:34
Speaker 2: the book stuffs with you and everything. But to the
24:37
Speaker 2: point of I didn't know myself anymore, like it took
24:41
Speaker 2: everything from me, and post health Aid I needed to
24:44
Speaker 2: rebuild what that was for myself.
24:46
Speaker 3: So you're exited now as you reflect on this journey
24:50
Speaker 3: thinking about this cost of intensity, which was the last
24:53
Speaker 3: like ten twelve years of your life. Back then, what
24:55
Speaker 3: are some lessons learned?
24:57
Speaker 2: Oh well, in the midst of it, I always felt
25:01
Speaker 2: more painful than looking back at It's kind of like pregnancy. Also,
25:04
Speaker 2: it's like good child, bird, I know, but for me,
25:08
Speaker 2: it's like you can do hard things. I look back
25:11
Speaker 2: and like that was one of the most grueling journeys
25:15
Speaker 2: of one's life and I know I can do hard
25:19
Speaker 2: things and that really has stuck with me. And then
25:22
Speaker 2: second is when I think about myself and how I've
25:25
Speaker 2: grown as not just a leader, but also as a
25:28
Speaker 2: person in this world. As the vulnerability piece. I think
25:32
Speaker 2: those lessons around EQ what I learned about myself and
25:35
Speaker 2: how to connect with people. That has really stuck with
25:38
Speaker 2: me and hopefully helping in my relationship with my husband
25:42
Speaker 2: right now, but trying at least, that part has really
25:46
Speaker 2: stuck with me. Business is about people at the end
25:48
Speaker 2: of the day, who you employ and how you get
25:51
Speaker 2: them to work for you and for the business is
25:53
Speaker 2: a whole philosophy in its own and those lessons stuck
25:57
Speaker 2: with me.
25:58
Speaker 3: For the people who are always like the go go go, hustle, hustle, hustle.
26:01
Speaker 3: What's your take on this now? Is it necessary? Is
26:04
Speaker 3: that sustainable? Is that something you still believe in?
26:07
Speaker 2: So this world of beverage took everything from my being, right,
26:11
Speaker 2: so I sacrifice so much that hustle is what we
26:14
Speaker 2: brought every day, and I don't think that's the best
26:18
Speaker 2: way to give it your all. Actually, this hustle mentality,
26:22
Speaker 2: I do think there's times when you have to ante
26:24
Speaker 2: up and really buckle in. As an example, I'm a
26:28
Speaker 2: co chair for the Benefit for the Kids Face museum
26:31
Speaker 2: locally to me in Pasadena, and that's been like, you know,
26:34
Speaker 2: six to eight month affair. But like now it's go time.
26:36
Speaker 2: So like, yes, now we're hustling because it happens to
26:39
Speaker 2: be in one week and so it is mostly all
26:41
Speaker 2: day every day, but it's not at the expense of
26:44
Speaker 2: so many other things that like I'm still at home
26:46
Speaker 2: with my kids for bedtime, right, So I think also
26:49
Speaker 2: you have to prioritize what matters. The things that matter
26:52
Speaker 2: to you shouldn't fall off the boat. So during Health Aid,
26:54
Speaker 2: it did my own health, my mental health, you know,
26:57
Speaker 2: all the parts that should be priority felt off that
27:00
Speaker 2: priority list. What I wouldn't want to do again is
27:04
Speaker 2: sacrificing myself for the thing. And so what that looks
27:07
Speaker 2: like is, you know, I'm still having my non negotiables
27:10
Speaker 2: on my calendar of I still want to work out,
27:13
Speaker 2: I still want to be able to be there for
27:15
Speaker 2: my kids' bedtime.
27:16
Speaker 1: So I've learned.
27:18
Speaker 2: That you really just got to focus, and that focus
27:22
Speaker 2: and that intentionality I think gets you way farther than
27:26
Speaker 2: just like the furious duck swimming and like what happens
27:29
Speaker 2: underwater of like chaotic swim doesn't really get too much.
27:32
Speaker 3: As we wrap up here, is there anything else that
27:34
Speaker 3: you want to share with our listeners about leadership?
27:38
Speaker 2: I would say the two things that would be takeaways
27:41
Speaker 2: from me as a listener is one, betting on yourself
27:45
Speaker 2: and knowing that you have what it takes, like people
27:50
Speaker 2: are betting on you, so you have to bet on
27:52
Speaker 2: yourself first and foremost. And the second thing is I
27:54
Speaker 2: actually learned from my therapist, it's when those ideas of
27:59
Speaker 2: imposter syndrome come into you and they actually affect how
28:02
Speaker 2: you communicate. For examples like oh, I'm not meant to
28:04
Speaker 2: be in this director role. But then you can ask yourself,
28:07
Speaker 2: but are you in this role? And you're like I am,
28:10
Speaker 2: and just telling yourself like I am in this role
28:11
Speaker 2: for a reason. Just being able to answer that simple
28:14
Speaker 2: question and reaffirming why you are in the place that
28:17
Speaker 2: you are in allows you to portray yourself as a
28:22
Speaker 2: leader in a way that will get you so much
28:24
Speaker 2: farther than if you just had that kind of fear
28:26
Speaker 2: in the back of your head.
28:28
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Vanessa, this is such an amazing conversation.
28:31
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. This is so fun.
28:38
Speaker 3: Wow, that was such an amazing conversation with Vanessa. I
28:42
Speaker 3: appreciated her honesty and transparency where she took us straight
28:47
Speaker 3: into her raw leadership journey. I learned so much, but
28:50
Speaker 3: the three points that really stood out to me were these.
28:54
Speaker 3: Number One, leadership is about how you show up, not
28:58
Speaker 3: your title. Number two, sometimes when you stop trying to
29:02
Speaker 3: be the smartest person in the room, you can grow faster.
29:06
Speaker 3: And number three, giving too much of yourself at work
29:09
Speaker 3: can have its consequences. So starting with the first one,
29:13
Speaker 3: one of my favorite parts about this conversation was when
29:16
Speaker 3: Vanessa talked about the cues you give people at work
29:20
Speaker 3: and how that can impact the way you're perceived. When
29:23
Speaker 3: she first started selling healthy kombucha, it was at the
29:26
Speaker 3: farmer's market and how at the time not many people
29:29
Speaker 3: knew what kombucha was and the only way to get
29:32
Speaker 3: people to try this new and novel product was to
29:36
Speaker 3: give people the cues that she was beyond confident about it. So,
29:41
Speaker 3: using her words, she told customers, try it. If you
29:45
Speaker 3: don't like it, I'll give you your money back. This
29:48
Speaker 3: signal that she believed in her product and she backed
29:52
Speaker 3: it up. So for you, as a leader, how you
29:55
Speaker 3: carry yourself determines how others are going to treat.
29:57
Speaker 4: You as well.
29:59
Speaker 3: Always think about the cues you're giving to your team,
30:02
Speaker 3: specifically social cue, sensory cues, and even the patterns. Having
30:07
Speaker 3: a nice title can definitely help you with getting the
30:10
Speaker 3: recognition you want, but it also comes with how you
30:13
Speaker 3: show up and engage with people. The second point that
30:16
Speaker 3: really stood out to me was all about how she
30:19
Speaker 3: didn't need to have all the answers. So, like me,
30:23
Speaker 3: you've probably heard that before. But what I loved about
30:26
Speaker 3: Vanessa's story and her leadership journey was her realization that
30:30
Speaker 3: when she tried to have the answers to all the
30:33
Speaker 3: questions and all the problems, it actually made her micro
30:37
Speaker 3: manage her team, which was exactly what she didn't want
30:41
Speaker 3: to do. For her she realized everyone on her team
30:45
Speaker 3: was feeling so tired, stretched thin, and unsure of how
30:48
Speaker 3: much more they can give, and that's when she realized
30:51
Speaker 3: she had to go from telling people what to do
30:54
Speaker 3: to instead asking them for help. Vanessa said that moment
30:59
Speaker 3: shifted everything her and she was able to quote unquote
31:02
Speaker 3: loosen the reins a bit, but it also gave people
31:05
Speaker 3: on her team the opportunity to step up fully into
31:09
Speaker 3: their roles, and in turn, the business didn't slow down,
31:13
Speaker 3: but it grew in a more sustainable way. So for you,
31:16
Speaker 3: if you're feeling stuck, or if your team is feeling stuck,
31:20
Speaker 3: think about how showing just a little bit of vulnerability
31:24
Speaker 3: can actually be what your team needs. It's almost like
31:27
Speaker 3: an invitation that you want people to bring their best
31:30
Speaker 3: thinking forward, because, like Vanessa, that's how her company her
31:34
Speaker 3: team started to scale. And the third point, giving too
31:38
Speaker 3: much of yourself at work can have its consequences. This
31:42
Speaker 3: was the most honest part of this conversation. It was
31:46
Speaker 3: hearing her talk about the cost of building something so
31:50
Speaker 3: intensely for over a decade and what that cost her.
31:55
Speaker 3: And she didn't sugarcoat it. She loved her work, she
31:58
Speaker 3: loved the business. She gave it everything, and eventually she
32:03
Speaker 3: realized that she had given too much of herself to
32:06
Speaker 3: sustain a healthy relationship with the work, and in her words,
32:11
Speaker 3: at the end, she didn't even know herself anymore. It's
32:16
Speaker 3: so interesting because we hear of so many stories that
32:18
Speaker 3: glorify this hustle culture, but we don't really talk about
32:23
Speaker 3: how when we do that, we also don't think about
32:26
Speaker 3: what actually matters to us. So for you, it could
32:30
Speaker 3: be things like your health, being present with your family,
32:33
Speaker 3: like what actually brings you joy. This lesson was also
32:37
Speaker 3: very profound for me because it also made me realize
32:40
Speaker 3: how important it is for you to have your non
32:43
Speaker 3: negotiables and even determining what those non negotiables are.
32:47
Speaker 4: You don't have to do it.
32:49
Speaker 3: You know, once you get a certain title, this can
32:51
Speaker 3: be now and it doesn't mean you have to stop
32:54
Speaker 3: working hard. And as a leader, I think people actually
32:57
Speaker 3: notice that and they can actually respect that as as
33:00
Speaker 3: long as you communicate it to your team too.
33:02
Speaker 4: So if you're.
33:03
Speaker 3: Thinking, gosh, maybe I do need to slow down, maybe
33:06
Speaker 3: I do need to start thinking about what my non
33:08
Speaker 3: negotiables are, start redefining what giving it your all actually
33:14
Speaker 3: looks like and is it actually what you want? Because
33:17
Speaker 3: I believe when you can get clear on that, you
33:20
Speaker 3: can then give more of what energizes you.
33:26
Speaker 2: Now.
33:26
Speaker 3: I want to say thank you so much to Vanessa
33:29
Speaker 3: for joining us. This was such a great conversation, and
33:32
Speaker 3: to all of you who are listening. If you enjoyed
33:34
Speaker 3: this episode or you have feedback on what you want
33:37
Speaker 3: to hear, and guess you'd like to hear from. Please
33:40
Speaker 3: rate and review Leading by Example.
33:42
Speaker 4: Every review, every rating.
33:44
Speaker 3: Really does help us reach more people and make this
33:46
Speaker 3: show the best it can be. I'm Jessica Chen, the
33:50
Speaker 3: author of Smart Not Loud, How to Get Noticed at
33:53
Speaker 3: Work for All the Right Reasons, and the CEO of
33:56
Speaker 3: Soulcast Media, a communications training company. For more and from
34:00
Speaker 3: me and what I do, head over to my website
34:02
Speaker 3: Soulcastmedia dot com or add me on LinkedIn and Instagram.
34:07
Speaker 4: A huge thank you.
34:08
Speaker 3: To our production team at Ruby Studio, especially Matt Stillo,
34:12
Speaker 3: Kelly Kyle, and Sierra Spreen. We'll be back in two
34:15
Speaker 3: weeks with another episode of Leading by Example.
34:18
Speaker 4: I'll see you then,