Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Terror attack in New York & New clues in Sherri Papini mystery

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Terror attack in New York & New clues in Sherri Papini mystery · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel one thirty two.
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Speaker 1: A pickup truck turning down a pedestrian path for runners, walkers, bicyclists,
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Speaker 1: and it appears that driver was aiming right for them.
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Speaker 1: All I heard was the impact of a crash, and
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Speaker 1: I turned around see where that came from, and I
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Speaker 1: saw the white pickup truck. Authorities revealing that suspect in
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Speaker 1: a rented pickup truck made a deliberate turn onto that path.
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Speaker 1: It is the deadliest attack since not eleven. I see
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Speaker 1: two gentlemen laying there when they have tire track lawks
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Speaker 1: across them. I saw a guy with two guns. He's
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Speaker 1: just standing in the middle of discreet at least eight
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Speaker 1: dead tonight, many more injured. The driver running people over
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Speaker 1: his path about a mile long before he ended. This
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Speaker 1: was an act of terror, and a particularly cowardly act
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Speaker 1: of terror aimed at innocent civilians, aimed at people going
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Speaker 1: about their lives who had no idea what was about
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Speaker 1: to hit them. We know that this action was intended
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Speaker 1: to break our spirit, but we also know New Yorkers
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Speaker 1: are strong. New Yorkers are resilient, and our spirit will
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Speaker 1: never be moved by an act of violence and act
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Speaker 1: meant to intimidate us. We have been tested before as
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Speaker 1: a city very near the site of today's tragedy, and
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Speaker 1: New Yorkers do not give in in the face of
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Speaker 1: these kinds of actions. Will respond as we always do.
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Speaker 1: We will be undeterred. We know we will get down
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Speaker 1: to the bottom of what happened. I want to ask
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Speaker 1: all New Yorkers, all Americans, to keep the families of
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Speaker 1: those lost in your thoughts and prayers. They will need
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Speaker 1: our support. And I want to ask all New Yorkers
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Speaker 1: to be vigilant. Americans mode down dead in the so
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Speaker 1: called capital of the world, right here on American soil.
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Speaker 1: As a man injurs fifteen kills eight shouting Allah, who
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Speaker 1: bar in New York leaves behind notes and a flag
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Speaker 1: pledging loyalty to a terror group and proud of it.
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Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is crime stories and we want justice?
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Speaker 1: How did it happen? Police insiders say the man is
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Speaker 1: a terrorist who killed civilians on Tuesday, eight dead, fifteen
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Speaker 1: injured after he drove a mile down a bike path.
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Speaker 1: He's been here, says two thousand and ten. How has
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Speaker 1: he gone under the radar for that long only to
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Speaker 1: unleash taking American lives? He's lived in Ohio, in Florida,
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Speaker 1: currently residing in New Jersey. Interesting? How did trucking companies
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Speaker 1: registered under his name? How? How did that happen? How
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Speaker 1: is he an Uber driver? How did he go under
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Speaker 1: the radar only to make himself known with murder? Joining
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Speaker 1: me right now, Bruce Alexander, terror expert whose career spans
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Speaker 1: over thirty years in counter terrorism, intelligence, security, homeland security,
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Speaker 1: forensic psychiatrist Dr Daniel Bober, Emmy Award winning investigative reporter
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Speaker 1: Art Harris, and death scene investigator Joseph S. Got Morgan,
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Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. First of all, let's get
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Speaker 1: the facts. Art Harris, investigative reporter, What happened? Pantcy this
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Speaker 1: Uzbek National linted a truck in New Jersey and yesterday
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Speaker 1: drove it into a crowd in Manhattan, Lower Manhattan, moaning down,
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Speaker 1: killing eleven Injuring thirteen as he drove it along a
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Speaker 1: bike path in the shadows of the World Trade Center
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Speaker 1: memory and uh it was chaos, uh it Uh. He
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Speaker 1: then gets out of the truck with a what looked
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Speaker 1: like guns but they are fake guns, one paintball gun
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Speaker 1: uh and a BB gun and starts yelling Allah Akbar,
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Speaker 1: which you know is God as great people have reported that,
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Speaker 1: and he's taken down. He's shot once by a very
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Speaker 1: vigilant New York City police officer and he's now under
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Speaker 1: a and actually I hear cooperating with law enforcement, which
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Speaker 1: could give us an important window into his motives. They
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Speaker 1: believe that he was radicalized in a lone wolf type
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Speaker 1: but with ISIS sympathies. Uh. This is someone very disturbing,
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Speaker 1: but they have not linked him to any larger cells
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Speaker 1: or larger plot as of now. To Dr Daniel Bober,
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Speaker 1: forensic psychiatrist and to Bruce Alexander, terror expert, I want
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Speaker 1: to figure out how these guys how this guy in particular,
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Speaker 1: and we know that he has compatriots stayed under the
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Speaker 1: radar for this long and I want to go into
6:41
Speaker 1: the mind of someone who was so brainwashed they would
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Speaker 1: commit mass murder. To Bruce Alexander, first question to you,
6:48
Speaker 1: how did he stay under the radar for so long? Well, Nancy,
6:54
Speaker 1: they're in like danger of individuals, likeness and the nature
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Speaker 1: of this particular attack. The he was able to stay
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Speaker 1: under the radar for so long. This is is that
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Speaker 1: he was able to effectively disguise, if you will, or
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Speaker 1: conceal or cover ordinary actions that maybe indicators pre incident,
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Speaker 1: indicators of the terrorists plot or a larger scale attack
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Speaker 1: under the guise of normal, everyday type of activities that
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Speaker 1: you know, there's nothing innocuous about renting a truck unless
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Speaker 1: you know they're intent. But day in and day out.
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Speaker 1: You know, the term that I use is is you know,
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Speaker 1: he was a gray man. In other words, uh, he
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Speaker 1: just simply sits in and the environment that he's in
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Speaker 1: provides him. Wait a minute, Wait a minute, waite a minute.
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Speaker 1: You said he's the gray man? Is that what you
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Speaker 1: just said? Yes, yes, it and sort of what I
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Speaker 1: mean by that is is that you know it's it
7:52
Speaker 1: blends in and um in. The innocuous is the camouflage,
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Speaker 1: if you will, that allowed acts like this to be
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Speaker 1: to be effectively carried out, if you don't have any tells,
8:06
Speaker 1: if you don't have any indicators, and you use your
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Speaker 1: ordinary life, if you will, if you're putting ourselves in
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Speaker 1: the guise of a terrorist here um to carry out
8:17
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's a case of a surveillance or
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Speaker 1: you know, a dry run type of thing. If you
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Speaker 1: use that as a pretext or a cover, could you
8:26
Speaker 1: could be quite effective? And therein lies the danger. You know,
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Speaker 1: it's a lone individuals using daily life, if you will,
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Speaker 1: as as a means facilitated terror. Saying the way that
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Speaker 1: they blended in was by really assuming a role of
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Speaker 1: normalcy within American culture, and nobody seemed to notice. Dr
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Speaker 1: Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, How does that work, Nancy? These
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Speaker 1: are very often people who are disillusioned, their marginalized. They're
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Speaker 1: living on the fringes of society, and very often they
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Speaker 1: have an act to grind. They don't really fit in,
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Speaker 1: and they're they're really right to be radicalized. I mean,
9:05
Speaker 1: how much attention is someone going to draw if they're
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Speaker 1: going home on the internet and they're going to these
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Speaker 1: jihadi websites. Uh, they're being influenced. They're not necessarily being
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Speaker 1: supported by a Tirist organization, but they're being inspired and
9:19
Speaker 1: they want to make a name for themselves. And you're
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Speaker 1: gonna see this more and more. You've seen it all
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Speaker 1: around the world, and with the proliferation of the Internet
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Speaker 1: and social media, it's going to keep happening again and again,
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Speaker 1: and there's very little way to prevent it. We are
9:31
Speaker 1: talking about Safuo, how Bubilivic, How did he blend in?
9:40
Speaker 1: How did he fly under the radar and then explode
9:46
Speaker 1: in an act of such extreme violence in the city
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Speaker 1: of New York, a terrorist act that has taken more
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Speaker 1: lives than any other act since September eleven. Eight dead, repeat,
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Speaker 1: eight dead, many many more wounded, many more, uh possibly
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Speaker 1: more than a dozen trying to recover as our country
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Speaker 1: wrestles with yet another terror attack, and it leads to
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Speaker 1: the fear, Art Harris, of an attack at a mall
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Speaker 1: while we're out shopping for Christmas or you know what
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Speaker 1: do they call the day the deaford Thanksgiving Black Friday?
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Speaker 1: Just these people? How did it go down exactly? Aren't Harris?
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Speaker 1: There were innocent people out in the street. Tell me
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Speaker 1: the mechanics of how this guy Sefiulo b Bulovic sap
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Speaker 1: Off pull it off. First, he had been on the
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Speaker 1: radar of the FBI in a an unrelated investigation, but
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Speaker 1: did not, you know, sound an alarm that was necessary.
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Speaker 1: How can you be under the radar with the FBI
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Speaker 1: white in the crosshairs of the FBI suspicion, because if
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Speaker 1: the FBI is looking at you, that's suspicious. They had
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Speaker 1: his name. This happened before Nancy it. You know, if
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Speaker 1: somebody is a peripheral character, you have to prioritize. It's
11:16
Speaker 1: like a triage in an emergency room. What suspect do
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Speaker 1: you go after first? Or you know, how dangerous do
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Speaker 1: they think they are? You know, you can't do everybody. So, uh,
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Speaker 1: he's name popped up. He'd been here since two thousand
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Speaker 1: and ten, landed at Kennedy Airport from tash Kent, Uzbekistan,
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Speaker 1: which has a very a very large uh Muslim community. Uh.
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Speaker 1: And so this is something that the Soviets have problems
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Speaker 1: with as well. So he now is in this country,
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Speaker 1: stays where a cousin goes to Florida, lines up in
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Speaker 1: New Jersey working for Uber, and he goes and rinse
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Speaker 1: this truck. He's he's a green card, he's got a license.
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Speaker 1: There's no way to really, as Bruce put it, stop
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Speaker 1: him from conducting legal norm quote business of a resident alien.
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Speaker 1: So he gets the truck and he drives over. We
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Speaker 1: don't know if he scouted before or if he was
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Speaker 1: cruising around and looking for an opportunity. But he finds
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Speaker 1: a bike path and guns it. Drives for a mile
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Speaker 1: without before until he hits a school bus and a
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Speaker 1: couple of injury there. But he gets out and starts running,
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Speaker 1: and that's when the circumstances take over in the cop intercedes.
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Speaker 1: But as Bruce said, it's very difficult to find these folks.
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Speaker 1: It would be uh terrific if somebody was cruising these
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Speaker 1: these sites and could somehow pick up on language that
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Speaker 1: indicated that a certain person who was about to do
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Speaker 1: something radical. I don't know of any kind of software
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Speaker 1: or intelligence approach that is using that, yet maybe they do.
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Speaker 1: You're right, Art. What I was trying to say is
12:52
Speaker 1: he was on many different ISIS related websites. This is
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Speaker 1: what we know. Twenty nine year old man drives a
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Speaker 1: rental truck down a path in Manhattan for quite some
13:03
Speaker 1: time there near the World Trade Center, plowing into people.
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Speaker 1: Eight dead, fourteen others injured. That we know of this guy,
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Speaker 1: Sofilo Hobby Boulovic Sapov. He has been identified as living
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Speaker 1: in New Jersey, and it's not that isis is claiming credit.
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Speaker 1: Later a note was found in his truck claiming the
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Speaker 1: attack attack was for ISIS. Now he's lived in Patterson,
13:31
Speaker 1: which is not far from New York. Um, this is
13:34
Speaker 1: also very very disturbing to you, Bruce Alexander. We are
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Speaker 1: now learning that he was radicalized domestically, radicalized domestically, does
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Speaker 1: that mean he was radicalized here in the US? I
13:49
Speaker 1: think ums, As the doctor pointed out before, it's been
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Speaker 1: a combination of things. Uh. Number one is clearly the
13:56
Speaker 1: influence of the Internet into social media is a is
13:59
Speaker 1: a primary source and a continuing source of radicalization. But
14:04
Speaker 1: to your point, also part of that radicalization also can
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Speaker 1: be exposure to radical theology and or within a social
14:15
Speaker 1: setting of individuals of like minded Then, if you will
14:19
Speaker 1: or who sort of sit on the periphery at um
14:22
Speaker 1: as was previously mentioned, who by virtue of exposure through
14:26
Speaker 1: conversations perhaps start to legitimize what it is they're about
14:30
Speaker 1: to do so. The radicalization it's a two step process again,
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Speaker 1: one exposure at the social media the internet level, and
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Speaker 1: then secondly fueled UH either directly or indirectly by like
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Speaker 1: minded exposure to like minded individuals. It's not one just
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Speaker 1: sort one particular source, and therein lies the danger and
14:52
Speaker 1: trying to stop this because well, you know, if in theory,
14:55
Speaker 1: if you eliminated the Internet, there would still be some
14:57
Speaker 1: exposure somewhere else, and so we could never ice create
15:00
Speaker 1: all of those variables. You know, he was cruising all
15:04
Speaker 1: of these websites, isis related websites? To Joe Scott Morgan,
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Speaker 1: forensic expert, I want to look for a moment at
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Speaker 1: the victims and how they were killed. The terror and
15:15
Speaker 1: attack victims include students, school staff, tourists that were celebrating
15:22
Speaker 1: a reunion. In fact, five friends where they're celebrating their
15:27
Speaker 1: high school reunion when they were killed. How did it happen?
15:33
Speaker 1: From the point of view of a death scene investigator
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, this tower was in uh UH is
15:40
Speaker 1: essentially meant to tow several thousand pounds of equipment this
15:43
Speaker 1: sort of thing, and it can be easily accessed via
15:46
Speaker 1: home depot. I've actually rented one of these things before.
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Speaker 1: This is a Ford F two fifty cabin. For people
15:51
Speaker 1: who don't understand how big that is, it's it's one
15:55
Speaker 1: of the larger trucks that you can have V eight engine.
15:58
Speaker 1: It's like a VH sledge hand going into this tiny,
16:01
Speaker 1: confined area. It's one of the most popular bike paths
16:04
Speaker 1: and all of Manhattan. You've got people in a confined area,
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Speaker 1: they're riding bikes, they're jogging, and this guy is riding
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Speaker 1: down the middle of them, and there's not a lot
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Speaker 1: of places that the victims could duck out of the way.
16:17
Speaker 1: So what's happening if he's not If people are not
16:20
Speaker 1: being hit and pushed out of the way, you essentially
16:23
Speaker 1: have rollover injuries. And the reason a lot of these
16:25
Speaker 1: injuries are gonna be so nasty is the fact that
16:28
Speaker 1: some of these people were on bikes, so the bikes
16:30
Speaker 1: get caught beneath the wheels. You can look at some
16:32
Speaker 1: of the images and see how twisted these things are.
16:34
Speaker 1: And you've got people that if they weren't fatally injured killed,
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Speaker 1: they're gonna be suffered terrible injuries, lifelong injuries as a result.
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Speaker 1: Of this this guy Again, this goes back to this
16:45
Speaker 1: whole idea that we've talked about before. You've got the
16:48
Speaker 1: general public completely caught unaware. They're sitting ducks in a
16:53
Speaker 1: confined space where they have no place to go. My
16:56
Speaker 1: thought relative to this as an investigator is that this
16:59
Speaker 1: is a place that was specifically targeted, that he knew
17:03
Speaker 1: that people would be very, very vulnerable, and he's driving
17:06
Speaker 1: down the middle of this thing and he took out
17:08
Speaker 1: as many people as he possibly could. And Nancy, this
17:11
Speaker 1: is this this vehicle. It really enables an individual to
17:15
Speaker 1: fly under the radar again using that term, to go
17:18
Speaker 1: out and rent, rent one of these things and then
17:21
Speaker 1: take it and facilitate this kind of and essentially you've
17:23
Speaker 1: got this large, like I said, f two fifty sledge
17:27
Speaker 1: hammer that has been weaponized and and that's that's the
17:31
Speaker 1: real horror, isn't it. I Mean, you know, we're talking
17:33
Speaker 1: about in these confined spaces and it really makes you
17:36
Speaker 1: put your head on a swivel. You're looking around, You're thinking,
17:38
Speaker 1: my god, you're not looking for guns here. Any any
17:41
Speaker 1: one of these vehicles out here can be used. So
17:44
Speaker 1: these people are gonna suffer horribly that have survived and
17:48
Speaker 1: these these uh, the people that died died very, very painfully.
17:53
Speaker 1: I just hate it. I hate it so much for them.
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Speaker 1: Dr Daniel Bober explained to me, you're our forensic psychiatrist,
18:01
Speaker 1: and then I want to ask the same question of
18:03
Speaker 1: Bruce Alexander, our terror expert. Dr Bober. I'm trying to
18:08
Speaker 1: figure out how this the mind of a person that
18:11
Speaker 1: could get radicalized domestically, that could completely change their course
18:20
Speaker 1: of action by what they read on line and to
18:24
Speaker 1: get so so extremely so radically turned around, because it's
18:32
Speaker 1: coming out, as a matter of fact in the last
18:35
Speaker 1: minutes that he was radicalized here in the US. Well
18:39
Speaker 1: and n answ you, these are essentially weak individuals. These
18:41
Speaker 1: are people that have very poor self concept, they have
18:45
Speaker 1: a very poor sense of who they are, and they're
18:47
Speaker 1: looking for some sort of meaning, something to fill the
18:50
Speaker 1: void within themselves, to give themselves motivation in life. And
18:54
Speaker 1: so it doesn't happen overnight, you know. They start reading
18:58
Speaker 1: these uh, this jihadi literal chure on the Internet and
19:01
Speaker 1: slowly but surely over time they are essentially converted and
19:04
Speaker 1: radicalized into this belief system and want to please the
19:08
Speaker 1: people that they are serving. Do you, Bruce Alexander terror
19:12
Speaker 1: expert use career stands over thirty years in counter terrorism, intelligence,
19:17
Speaker 1: security and homeland security. How does it happen? How do
19:22
Speaker 1: you pull off the facade of normalcy in Patterson, New Jersey,
19:27
Speaker 1: only to be planning an ISIS terrorist attack. I think
19:31
Speaker 1: it speaks to conviction, convictioning the belief of the cause
19:38
Speaker 1: in which the individual is willing to sacrifice himself for um.
19:43
Speaker 1: In in such a case, it gives them a certain resolve.
19:47
Speaker 1: And I think you know, Dr Bober could certainly talk
19:49
Speaker 1: to you know the mental characteristics of that transformation that
19:52
Speaker 1: goes to that. But it's it's really sort of a
19:55
Speaker 1: mission focus, um. And we see it in high skilled uh,
20:00
Speaker 1: good guys on our side, if you will, who have
20:02
Speaker 1: an intense mission focus and understand it's something thankfully on
20:06
Speaker 1: our side anyway larger than themselves. But the unfortunately the
20:10
Speaker 1: reverse side is is in this particular case, you have
20:14
Speaker 1: a strain of an extremist ideology that says, um, my
20:20
Speaker 1: cause is so righteous and great that giving my life
20:24
Speaker 1: in this is worth every bit of what I'm doing it.
20:28
Speaker 1: So what that does is translate to a real sort
20:31
Speaker 1: of intense mission focus, both in the pre operational phase
20:35
Speaker 1: and by the way I happen to believe to that
20:38
Speaker 1: this particular vehicle was ideally suited for that particular target,
20:45
Speaker 1: if you will, that pathway, which also suggests to me
20:49
Speaker 1: that there was probably probably conducted some surveillance on that
20:53
Speaker 1: and figured out what's the best weapon to do this.
20:55
Speaker 1: But it goes back to um uh an intense sort
20:58
Speaker 1: of mission focus. That's beliefs says, my cause is so
21:02
Speaker 1: great that um the operational indicators or factors that might
21:09
Speaker 1: lead to my discovery will be controlled by my beliefs
21:14
Speaker 1: and the cause, if you will, be you know, my
21:16
Speaker 1: ability the risk of detection. So that's typically where you
21:20
Speaker 1: see that at uh, that that that beliefs and cause
21:24
Speaker 1: leads to a manifestation of that belief by the operation itself.
21:30
Speaker 1: According to video from the scene, the perp jumps out
21:33
Speaker 1: of the wrecked vehicle brandishing handguns, shouting Allahu Akbar, which
21:41
Speaker 1: means an Arabic God is great. I want to pause
21:47
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23:22
Speaker 1: for being our partner today, I'm totally freaking out. Those
23:26
Speaker 1: are the words, uh super mom, Sherry Peppini's terrified husband
23:31
Speaker 1: on the nine one one call. As it has just
23:34
Speaker 1: been revealed the mother of two, Sherry Peppini had been
23:37
Speaker 1: texting another man just before she was kidnapped. You know,
23:42
Speaker 1: there's a lot of innuendos swirling around Sherry Peppini that
23:47
Speaker 1: she was not really kidnapped. We don't know the truth
23:51
Speaker 1: of that, and for right now, the police are standing
23:54
Speaker 1: by her. So I suggest we do the same, take
23:58
Speaker 1: a leap of faith on til we know better. I
24:01
Speaker 1: mean to see grace. This is crime stories. The Sherry
24:03
Speaker 1: Peppini case developing very quickly. Let's start with the sound
24:08
Speaker 1: of her husband who comes home to find she's gone
24:12
Speaker 1: and the children are gone as well. Take a listen.
24:17
Speaker 1: What is yours online? So how can I help you? Yeah? Um,
24:23
Speaker 1: so I just got home from work and uh, my
24:26
Speaker 1: wife wasn't there, which is unusual, and my kids should
24:29
Speaker 1: have been there by now from like daycare. So I
24:31
Speaker 1: was like, oh, maybe she went on a walk. Um,
24:33
Speaker 1: I couldn't find her, so I called the daycare to
24:35
Speaker 1: see what time she picked up the kids. The kids
24:37
Speaker 1: were never picked up, so I got freaked out. So
24:39
Speaker 1: I hit like to find my iPhone apping and it
24:42
Speaker 1: said that her. It showed her phone like at our
24:45
Speaker 1: end of our driver. We don't have a really good service. Okay,
24:47
Speaker 1: not at the end of our driver, at the end
24:48
Speaker 1: of our street, but just drove down there and I
24:50
Speaker 1: saw her phone with her headphones because she started running again.
24:53
Speaker 1: And it's tell on her phone and it's got like
24:55
Speaker 1: hair ripped out of it, like in the headphones. So
24:58
Speaker 1: I'm like totally freaking out. They can write somebod what's
25:01
Speaker 1: her Okay? What's your address? Okay? What's your last name?
25:06
Speaker 1: Propini P A P I and I am your first
25:09
Speaker 1: name Keith K E I T H Yeah. Okay, did
25:17
Speaker 1: you go pick up your children? You know I'm gonna
25:20
Speaker 1: call my mom and have her to do it. Okay.
25:22
Speaker 1: What's your wife's name? I'm gonna knock on every door. Rry.
25:25
Speaker 1: That's h R R I. I'm saying last name? Yes?
25:31
Speaker 1: Should I female? Yeah? What's our data? Birth? Uh? It
25:38
Speaker 1: is June eleven two with me is Aunt Harris, Emmy
25:46
Speaker 1: Award winning investigative reporter. Dr Chloe Carmichael. Psychologists joining us
25:51
Speaker 1: and of course, Alan, do you joining me from l A.
25:55
Speaker 1: Let's go straight to Aunt Harris. He seems very very calm,
25:59
Speaker 1: but I learned to lot just from the very beginning
26:01
Speaker 1: of his nine one one call. She had just started
26:04
Speaker 1: running quote again and he has found her iPhone with
26:09
Speaker 1: a big clump of hair in it near their driveway.
26:13
Speaker 1: I thought it was on a jogging path. That's what
26:16
Speaker 1: we had learned from before. Everybody just joining us. The
26:19
Speaker 1: thirty five year old so called super Mom Sherry Peppini,
26:22
Speaker 1: was kidnapped and beaten last year. Police say male DNA
26:28
Speaker 1: was also found on her clothes. That's a new development.
26:30
Speaker 1: But after nearly a month, it was thanks Giving time
26:34
Speaker 1: she was discovered wandering, beaten and bloodied and a town
26:39
Speaker 1: called Yolo. As of right now, police still don't know
26:44
Speaker 1: who abducted her. She said it was to Hispanic females.
26:49
Speaker 1: They kept their faces covered. Now, this disturbing audio has
26:53
Speaker 1: been released of her husband, Keith, calling when he realized
26:58
Speaker 1: she had been kidnapped, saying, I'm like totally freaking out
27:02
Speaker 1: thinking somebody grabbed her. This was just released after news
27:08
Speaker 1: that Sherry was texting another man just before her kidnapping.
27:12
Speaker 1: Now art it's my understanding. Police try that guy Dan
27:16
Speaker 1: in Detroit and Michigan just a week after she disappeared,
27:21
Speaker 1: but he was never arrested. For all I know, it
27:23
Speaker 1: was an old college friend. I don't know who it was.
27:25
Speaker 1: They have not made any charges or any arrests of him, Nancy.
27:29
Speaker 1: And so we are left with this very bizarre mystery
27:34
Speaker 1: of a truck driver going north on in State five
27:37
Speaker 1: seeing her just before Thanksgiving a year ago. Uh, and
27:42
Speaker 1: she is in restraints and uh and bruised and beaten up,
27:48
Speaker 1: and he, uh, you know, he takes her into his
27:50
Speaker 1: his truck and takes her to the hospital where evidence
27:54
Speaker 1: is collected, more photographs taken, swabs for DNA, and her
27:58
Speaker 1: hair was cut shoulder length, and she had a brand
28:02
Speaker 1: on her right shoulder. So this is something that is
28:06
Speaker 1: still being investigated. And uh, you know, of course she
28:10
Speaker 1: says someone very specific to women in fact, kidnapped her.
28:16
Speaker 1: Sherry mcpeeney had been out, apparently running near her home.
28:20
Speaker 1: She was found about a month later jumping out in
28:24
Speaker 1: front of cars. Emaciated. She was starved, had lost about
28:28
Speaker 1: twenty pounds, beaten branded, bruised, running well dun'ped by the
28:36
Speaker 1: roadside where she was attempting to run out in front
28:39
Speaker 1: of traffic, trying to get someone to help her. Dr
28:43
Speaker 1: Chloe if this is a giant russ to Dr Chloe Carmichael,
28:48
Speaker 1: It's hard for me to believe she starved herself. No, Nancy,
28:53
Speaker 1: of course, that would be just about impossible. The idea
28:57
Speaker 1: that she would starve herself down to eight seven pounds
29:01
Speaker 1: and brand herself. Um, I mean, that's just the most
29:04
Speaker 1: honestly implausible thing I think I've ever heard. Take a
29:08
Speaker 1: listen to more of the just released nine one. One
29:12
Speaker 1: calls her vehicle there? Does she not have a vehicle?
29:16
Speaker 1: She has a vehicles at the house. Okay, the vehicle
29:18
Speaker 1: is at the house. Okay, I'm right now driving. And
29:21
Speaker 1: I put the picture of her phone on the ground
29:22
Speaker 1: before it picked it up. Okay. How tall is five
29:26
Speaker 1: three five four? How much Wi hi pound? Hi? Color? Uh?
29:35
Speaker 1: Like a bluish blue? Okay, hair color blond? Do you
29:41
Speaker 1: know what she was wearing there? I'm assuming she went running. Okay,
29:48
Speaker 1: there's not an outfit she always wears or anything like that.
29:50
Speaker 1: She run with a dog or by herself, by herself? Okay?
29:54
Speaker 1: At what time where the kids started running again, and
29:56
Speaker 1: we live in a when's the last time? When's the
30:00
Speaker 1: last time you heard from her? She sent me a
30:04
Speaker 1: tech tsking me if I was coming home from lunch
30:07
Speaker 1: at what time A wants to mess um? Uh do
30:15
Speaker 1: anyone's like she said to me, had ten forty seven
30:25
Speaker 1: after me if I was coming home from lunch from work,
30:28
Speaker 1: and I said, sorry, long day And that was the
30:30
Speaker 1: last never spoked on the phone. R in the uricony
30:33
Speaker 1: and what time of the kids supposed to be picked up?
30:36
Speaker 1: Way before five thirties. He usually goes to like four
30:39
Speaker 1: forty five, O S are you headed back to the house?
30:55
Speaker 1: Or where are you at right now? I'm at the
30:58
Speaker 1: end of the driver you were And that's the well
31:01
Speaker 1: they were going failed sunrise where they meet, because that's
31:03
Speaker 1: right where I found her phone on the ground telling
31:07
Speaker 1: me that something happened to her is the way I'm
31:09
Speaker 1: looking at it. There's like then there was hair like
31:11
Speaker 1: in the headphones, like they got ripped off like the
31:13
Speaker 1: great and I understand, I am I'll tell us pause
31:17
Speaker 1: just a moment. I want to go back to Art Harris.
31:21
Speaker 1: What do you make of the husband's demeanor? And I'm
31:25
Speaker 1: hearing something that I had noticed at the beginning, but
31:28
Speaker 1: now it's been confirmed. It's not like Peppini when she
31:31
Speaker 1: was kidnapped, left her children alone in the car at
31:35
Speaker 1: the Walmart parking lot or abandoned somewhere. They were safe
31:39
Speaker 1: and sound in daycare, so she didn't have to be
31:43
Speaker 1: worried that any harm would befall them. We know that.
31:48
Speaker 1: I still don't know about the man she was texting.
31:51
Speaker 1: But what do you make of the husband's demeanor? Art Well, Nancy,
31:56
Speaker 1: he seems very composed, and he's he's he's trying. He
32:00
Speaker 1: seems quietly panicked, but he's looking for information now through
32:04
Speaker 1: his I guess his his his phone to see when
32:07
Speaker 1: she texted him. But he has actually of course, he's
32:10
Speaker 1: the first person that police look at, and he's actually
32:14
Speaker 1: passed a polygraph, So um, he apparently is off the
32:17
Speaker 1: table as a suspect at this point. Yeah, I never
32:21
Speaker 1: thought he was a suspect. I'm just wondering how he
32:25
Speaker 1: considered her behavior, what he thought of her missing. I
32:32
Speaker 1: think she's sound shocked to me. Sounds like he's trying
32:35
Speaker 1: to figure this out in his head, like you know
32:37
Speaker 1: what's going on. I mean, he's not he hasn't faced
32:40
Speaker 1: the actual gravity of what has happened. Can't imagine that
32:43
Speaker 1: that his wife would be kidnapped or a victim? I mean,
32:46
Speaker 1: who who does process that that quickly? Unless you knew
32:50
Speaker 1: what happened? You know, Alan do I would characterize his
32:54
Speaker 1: demeanor as being very calm, abnormally calm. But when you
32:58
Speaker 1: think about it, Alan, it's I could be also a
33:02
Speaker 1: mixture of trying to figure out where could she be.
33:06
Speaker 1: I can't believe she's really been kidnapped. There's got to
33:09
Speaker 1: be another answer to this. As opposed to when you
33:13
Speaker 1: come in you find somebody dead and you go hysterical,
33:18
Speaker 1: this is a whole different thing. Well, he didn't necessarily
33:21
Speaker 1: know anything was wrong. And by the way, the phone
33:23
Speaker 1: was down the end of his street, Uh, not near
33:26
Speaker 1: his driveway if you listen closely to the call, So
33:29
Speaker 1: it was on that jogging path. But yeah, he sounds
33:31
Speaker 1: like a very concerned husband. And as Art says, he
33:34
Speaker 1: passed the polygraph. But Joe Joseph Scott Morrigan always says
33:38
Speaker 1: something that I believe, and that is that you can't
33:41
Speaker 1: necessarily judge somebody's guilt, innocence involvement by their demeanor at
33:46
Speaker 1: a certain time that that can be mist leading, but
33:50
Speaker 1: he sounded he sounded very calm. To Dr Chloe Carmichael,
33:55
Speaker 1: what do you think of Sherry Peppini's description of the
33:59
Speaker 1: female at ackers. Well, it's it's certainly unusual. Um. I
34:05
Speaker 1: I agree, it's it's it's pretty mystifying. Um it's to
34:09
Speaker 1: two attackers that were women. Um, it's it's usually not
34:13
Speaker 1: something that we see for women to go out and
34:17
Speaker 1: hold another woman or a man captive and and to
34:20
Speaker 1: brutalize them this way. It's so unusual that I would really,
34:25
Speaker 1: I almost think that there would be a man behind
34:28
Speaker 1: it on some level. And that's nothing, um, you know,
34:31
Speaker 1: against men specifically, But it's just about the testosterone and
34:35
Speaker 1: the aggression and the patterns of brutality that we see
34:39
Speaker 1: that's just not something that's normally, um, you know, created
34:43
Speaker 1: by women. So I certainly do find it, um curious
34:47
Speaker 1: and perhaps suggestive that there's a man behind it on
34:50
Speaker 1: some level. Um you know, Alan, I was taking a look.
34:54
Speaker 1: I had thought that her cell phone was off of
34:57
Speaker 1: a jogging truck that I thought he could said on
34:59
Speaker 1: the normal hall that was just released. It was at
35:01
Speaker 1: the foot of the driveway. But you're right. We were right.
35:04
Speaker 1: It was about a mile away at the intersection of
35:06
Speaker 1: Sunrise and Old Oregon Highway. Quote neatly placed on the
35:11
Speaker 1: ground with the headphones rapped tidally wrapped around it. Again,
35:19
Speaker 1: some people may say she placed it there to be found,
35:22
Speaker 1: but very often when you jog and you carry your
35:25
Speaker 1: iPhone with you, if you're wearing headphones or an earpiece,
35:28
Speaker 1: you wrap it around the phone so it won't be
35:32
Speaker 1: dangling as you jog. So I also don't find that
35:37
Speaker 1: to be disturbing or indicative in any way that she
35:39
Speaker 1: planned this. Yeah, I mean, Alan, let's get real. There
35:43
Speaker 1: was no sex attack, there was no robbery, there was
35:47
Speaker 1: no ransom. Note there's no real motive, no clear motive
35:52
Speaker 1: is for the kidnapping. The fact that she claims women
35:55
Speaker 1: kidnapped her is highly improbable statistically. But other than those
36:01
Speaker 1: two things, we have no reason to disbelieve her. Why
36:05
Speaker 1: is everybody jumping on this, I mean and claiming she's lying.
36:09
Speaker 1: I think part of it is a California thing. Out
36:12
Speaker 1: Here in California, we've had a number of disappearances of
36:16
Speaker 1: young women, and they've involved female kidnappers, and also the
36:21
Speaker 1: area where she lives is known for some mysterious kidnappings.
36:25
Speaker 1: It's sort of like the Bermuda Triangle of missing women,
36:28
Speaker 1: and I think that creates a little bit of the
36:30
Speaker 1: Emerald Triangle. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
36:34
Speaker 1: There's been a lot of female kidnappings that were never
36:38
Speaker 1: solved in that so called Emerald triangle. You and I've
36:40
Speaker 1: talked about it many times. Alan, Hey, uh Art Harris,
36:44
Speaker 1: do we know whatever happened to all that money that
36:47
Speaker 1: was raised for um the Bring Sherry Homes Safe appeal?
36:50
Speaker 1: It raised almost fifty dollars? What happened to that money? Nancy? Uh?
36:55
Speaker 1: A pull accounting has not been produced, and I know
36:59
Speaker 1: of assume it went to the husband to help, but uh,
37:04
Speaker 1: we haven't seen any accounts of that. We also know
37:07
Speaker 1: she was battered, bruised, er hair had been chopped off
37:10
Speaker 1: to her shoulder. She once had it all the way
37:12
Speaker 1: down her back. She said she had not been sexually assaulted.
37:16
Speaker 1: She was branded with a threatening message that has never
37:20
Speaker 1: been released. Why is that art that the brand has
37:23
Speaker 1: never been released? And who brands somebody? It sounds like
37:26
Speaker 1: it's out of a novel written by a fifth grader
37:30
Speaker 1: often Nancy. That is a form of of domination and
37:33
Speaker 1: bondage or some sort of dev deviance, but also a
37:38
Speaker 1: gang type thing. I mean, you're somebody's property if you
37:41
Speaker 1: brand them, like like a piece of like a cat,
37:43
Speaker 1: a cow, a cattle. Uh, that gets branded if he
37:46
Speaker 1: wanders off somebody's range and onto somebody else's property. You
37:51
Speaker 1: know who that who that that cow belongs to. So
37:55
Speaker 1: in this case, it sounds very very demeaning uh and
37:59
Speaker 1: uh and and humiliating. But she was. She was branded
38:03
Speaker 1: in some possible ritual or But I'm sure the police
38:06
Speaker 1: have some sort of They're holding that back because obviously
38:09
Speaker 1: it's a piece of evidence and they can use it
38:11
Speaker 1: to match with the suspect possibly if they ever arresting you.
38:15
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about it. She was branded and starved.
38:19
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Speaker 1: I want you to hear this dispatch from CHIP California
40:20
Speaker 1: Highway Patrol inviting heavily better nothing just south of kolow
40:35
Speaker 1: On North down on the freeway north so Dr Chloe
40:42
Speaker 1: Carmichael with me along with Art Harris Chloe. She's actually bound.
40:48
Speaker 1: She is tied up or or secured with chains and
40:53
Speaker 1: dumped out on the street, really jumping in front of
40:57
Speaker 1: oncoming traffic to get rescued. It's so are why they
41:00
Speaker 1: would take her in the first place, why they would
41:03
Speaker 1: brutalize her, and why they would brand her, and then
41:07
Speaker 1: why it is that they would dump her out on
41:09
Speaker 1: the side of the road. I think that's partly what's
41:12
Speaker 1: so disturbing to the public about this is because it
41:16
Speaker 1: feels like a violence and a level of depravity that
41:20
Speaker 1: we really can't even put into any kind of a framework,
41:24
Speaker 1: which makes it just seem all the more haunting and
41:28
Speaker 1: deeply disturbing, unlike what she just said, Art Harris, that
41:32
Speaker 1: we can't put it into a framework. I mean, I've tried,
41:35
Speaker 1: I don't even know how many cases, and you've covered
41:38
Speaker 1: the same amount of cases. When we can't find a
41:41
Speaker 1: clear motive, somehow it just doesn't fit. And I think
41:44
Speaker 1: that's what's troubling people with this case. I think it, right, Nancy,
41:48
Speaker 1: in this case, you would think that, Okay, somebody is
41:50
Speaker 1: held and bound and gosh it, it must be a
41:52
Speaker 1: kidnapped for ransom. But nothing like that was ever h raise,
41:57
Speaker 1: no calls for money were ever made. So this sounds
42:01
Speaker 1: like just pure as pure pure depravity. Uh. And somehow, uh,
42:06
Speaker 1: some kind of anger resentment, uh, you know, by by
42:10
Speaker 1: whatever party took her, or you know the other thing is.
42:13
Speaker 1: And you never want to put a victim on trial. Uh.
42:16
Speaker 1: But I'm sure police have. They have looked, and they
42:19
Speaker 1: have gosh lots of search warrants, have not discovered or
42:22
Speaker 1: announced any sort of secret life that you would find
42:26
Speaker 1: with with sometimes with victims who who make up excuses,
42:30
Speaker 1: as we've seen before, sometimes with disturbed victims. Ever since
42:35
Speaker 1: her rescue, Sherry Peppini has been living as a recluse.
42:40
Speaker 1: Is that right? Art, We've heard nothing about her really
42:44
Speaker 1: state of mind of her uh situation. So this is
42:47
Speaker 1: someone who's privacy is is being protected and who does
42:52
Speaker 1: not want any attention. She's got to be incredibly traumatized.
42:55
Speaker 1: Uh and uh you know somehow emerging to try to
42:59
Speaker 1: find her her psyche, her life and her her her
43:04
Speaker 1: piece as a mother, uh, in a family. And we
43:08
Speaker 1: assume that she's being protected by people who love her.
43:12
Speaker 1: We know that she is living as a recluse. You know,
43:14
Speaker 1: she was found with the chain around her waist, clamps
43:17
Speaker 1: around her wrists, her face beaten and bruised, weighing just
43:21
Speaker 1: eighties seven pounds. That seems very difficult to have faked
43:27
Speaker 1: all that to me, but without a motive her her
43:30
Speaker 1: story is still under fire by many living as they
43:35
Speaker 1: recluse with her husband and children. Now, I was recently
43:39
Speaker 1: asked what do you make of the way she looks
43:41
Speaker 1: now and I responded, well, she looks like every woman
43:44
Speaker 1: looks when they first wake up, before they've had hair
43:46
Speaker 1: and makeup. It bothers me when people attack women that
43:53
Speaker 1: are not made up, so to speak. Dr Chloe. I mean,
43:57
Speaker 1: it's like everyone expects her to look like she did
43:59
Speaker 1: in her way sting photos after they were circulated. Well
44:02
Speaker 1: it is. It's it's really shocking that people would think
44:04
Speaker 1: that at this time, after what she's been through, that
44:08
Speaker 1: she would be thinking on any level about how to
44:10
Speaker 1: attract attention to herself or how to polish herself for
44:15
Speaker 1: the way that she would appear to others. What she
44:19
Speaker 1: really is, you know, I hope doing right now is
44:22
Speaker 1: trying to re establish a relationship with her own body,
44:26
Speaker 1: because her body was essentially taken away from her for
44:31
Speaker 1: all of this time. She wasn't the possessor of her
44:35
Speaker 1: own self, and so right now I think her attention
44:38
Speaker 1: is probably just on trying to understand her own relationship
44:43
Speaker 1: with her own body, rather than sending out signals for
44:46
Speaker 1: others you know are here or There has been a
44:48
Speaker 1: real spite of fake kidnappings recently. There was the one
44:53
Speaker 1: where the mom um facebook herself a video with a
44:59
Speaker 1: gag and her mouth and I guess she kidnapped her
45:02
Speaker 1: own self in the basement. Um. There have been a
45:06
Speaker 1: real spate of them. Why why would someone even bother
45:10
Speaker 1: to do that? Are you've been covering these cases, Nancy,
45:14
Speaker 1: I think you guilt and shame play a big role,
45:18
Speaker 1: especially if somebody has not saying that she did taken
45:22
Speaker 1: a walk on the wild side. Uh, and UH is
45:25
Speaker 1: trying to cover up, you know, your escapade. You know,
45:28
Speaker 1: you come up with maybe some elazar elaborate ruses, as
45:31
Speaker 1: we've seen people make against folks who they say kidnapped
45:35
Speaker 1: or tortured them. Uh, and they turn out to be
45:38
Speaker 1: not true at all. So we don't know if that's
45:40
Speaker 1: the case in her case. It seems so extreme. As
45:43
Speaker 1: you said, the injuries she suffered, the branding, Um, how
45:46
Speaker 1: do you brand yourself? I think that that really begs credulity.
45:51
Speaker 1: But you're right there. There are the things that people
45:55
Speaker 1: will do to cover up what they have really done
45:59
Speaker 1: does boggle them. Guilt can play quite a role in
46:01
Speaker 1: in the psyche. As the doctor, I'm sure I can
46:04
Speaker 1: tell us well. Interesting according to the l A. Times,
46:11
Speaker 1: they are saying that the d NA found was an
46:16
Speaker 1: unknown man's. Now. When I believed at the beginning it
46:19
Speaker 1: was just on some of her clothing, after all she
46:22
Speaker 1: had been through, I didn't find that disturbing. But according
46:26
Speaker 1: to the l A. Times, the d N a of
46:29
Speaker 1: two other people were found on Peppini when she was
46:33
Speaker 1: discovered partially clothed and shackle there on Interstate five on
46:38
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving Thanksgiving morning. And this says, if you read it carefully,
46:43
Speaker 1: the samples belonged to a woman and a man, and
46:47
Speaker 1: they were collected off Peppini's body and clothing respectively, body
46:55
Speaker 1: and clothing respectively. Now, if you read this an it's
47:00
Speaker 1: literally that means the woman's DNA was from her body
47:05
Speaker 1: and the man's DNA was from her clothing. Is the
47:08
Speaker 1: way that I would read it. What do you make
47:11
Speaker 1: of it, aren't Harris? That suggests some sort of uh
47:16
Speaker 1: sexual perhaps you know either well molestation or events took place,
47:22
Speaker 1: perhaps not not not of her choosing, but that certainly
47:26
Speaker 1: also contradicts her memory of two women kidnapping her. This
47:30
Speaker 1: is the first we have seen or her of a
47:32
Speaker 1: man's involvement, at least uh the way I read it,
47:36
Speaker 1: Allen Duke. There has just been another development in the case,
47:40
Speaker 1: explained They finally have released FBI approved sketches of these
47:45
Speaker 1: two women that Peppini described. It took him a year
47:49
Speaker 1: to do it because of her emotional condition, and they
47:52
Speaker 1: took their time. It shows one woman described as an
47:55
Speaker 1: Hispanic female between twenty and thirty, about five ft five,
47:59
Speaker 1: medium bill core, curly dark brown hair, thin eyebrowsed, spierced ears.
48:04
Speaker 1: The second woman described Hispanic female between forty and fifty,
48:08
Speaker 1: about five seven, large build, long, straight black hair with
48:12
Speaker 1: some gray in it, thick eyebrows, and pierced ears. And
48:16
Speaker 1: they were reportedly driving a dark colored SUV. And that
48:20
Speaker 1: is going to be on our website along with this show.
48:22
Speaker 1: That's right at crime online dot com. And there's a
48:26
Speaker 1: ten thousand dollar reward. The police are asking for the
48:30
Speaker 1: public's help, Nancy, as as they always do. Okay, guys,
48:35
Speaker 1: we're on it. The latest in the Sherry Peppini case.
48:40
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend,