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MC Fireside Chats - November 4th, 2026 · MC Fireside Chats, an Outdoor Hospitality Podcast

• 0:45
  Brian Searl: Did that work?
• 0:46
  Brian Searl: No, it didn't work.
• 0:47
  Brian Searl: Can you guys hear me?
• 0:49
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 0:50
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 0:50
  Brian Searl: But you can't see me.
• 0:51
  Michael Moore: Correct.
• 0:52
  Brian Searl: I knew I forgot something.
• 0:53
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 0:54
  Brian Searl: Welcome to MC Fireside Chats, everybody.
• 0:56
  Brian Searl: You'll see me in a second.
• 0:57
  Brian Searl: Let's go around the room and briefly introduce our guests.
• 0:59
  Brian Searl: We got Michael Moore and Ben Hirsch here.
• 1:02
  Ben Hirsch: All right.
• 1:03
  Ben Hirsch: Thanks for having me.
• 1:06
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 1:06
  Michael Moore: I'll go.
• 1:07
  Michael Moore: I do a couple things.
• 1:08
  Michael Moore: So I'm assistant executive director of the Texas Association of Campground Owners, and then general manager of AGS Guest Guides.
• 1:17
  Ben Hirsch: Great.
• 1:18
  Ben Hirsch: And yeah, I'm Ben Hirsch.
• 1:19
  Ben Hirsch: I'm chief operating officer for Campers Inn RV, and I also serve on a couple different industry boards, one here in Florida and then another one called the Priority RV Network
• 1:34
  Michael Moore: Well, Brian, you have a box, but we can't see or hear you, so
• 1:44
  Brian Searl: Test, test, one, two
• 1:45
  Ben Hirsch: There we go.
• 1:46
  Ben Hirsch: We can hear you now.
• 1:46
  Michael Moore: We can hear you.
• 1:47
  Brian Searl: Okay, cool.
• 1:48
  Brian Searl: All right so it's it's a little bit of a light attendance today.
• 1:51
  Brian Searl: I don't know where everybody is.
• 1:52
  Brian Searl: Nobody told me they weren't coming today.
• 1:53
  Brian Searl: They might've- told Sharah and I might just not have just paid attention.
• 1:56
  Brian Searl: I'll get my camera fixed as soon as I can here.
• 1:58
  Brian Searl: But to, to our typical, recurring guests, which is just Michael today we typically start the show by saying is there anything that you think we should be paying attention to that has happened since the last month we've been
• 2:08
  Brian Searl: together, other than, what happened last night?
• 2:10
  Brian Searl: We don't wanna start any controversies or- get anybody to tune out.
• 2:13
  Michael Moore: I don't think there's any controversy about what happened last night.
• 2:15
  Michael Moore: It was, I don't know what the language rules are here, but it was an ass-kicking that's not controversial, I don't think to say.
• 2:21
  Michael Moore: But yeah, I don't know.
• 2:22
  Michael Moore: As far as industry or the industry goes, as Brian, and probably you know, Ben, we've got a lot of these operator shows coming up, and some that already happened, like the glamping show.
• 2:31
  Michael Moore: I think that's gonna be there's gonna be some things that are rolled out at these events and vendors rolling out new things that I think will be very interesting for campground operators
• 2:42
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 2:42
  Brian Searl: What do you expect this year from some of the attendance?
• 2:44
  Brian Searl: To be clear, I'm not going this year, but that's b- not because I expect attendance to be low or anything.
• 2:51
  Brian Searl: I just am head down on some big projects that we're doing for the industry.
• 2:53
  Brian Searl: And, now that we're all vibe coding with AI, I feel like, a day away is three weeks or three months for me.
• 3:00
  Brian Searl: So I'm looking f- I'm Like, I'm gonna miss the networking and all that stuff, but I'm curious, what do you think the conferences are gonna be like this year?
• 3:04
  Brian Searl: Do you think they'll be as well attended?
• 3:06
  Brian Searl: It's normally I know you're in Texas normally, Michael, but, like- Isn't Texas and West Coast typically a little bit softer than the East Coast?
• 3:14
  Michael Moore: What I've been hearing is as far as the vendors go, exhibitors, that's very strong, for these, for the events coming up, whether it's the the OHI show, the OHCE or KOA or the, the Campground Owners Expo in Branson.
• 3:28
  Michael Moore: The vendor presence is very strong in those.
• 3:30
  Michael Moore: Now, as far as attendees go, obviously, we don't know final numbers until we're there, but I would venture a guess that part may be a little light as far as attendees go, only because if the trend of people
• 3:44
  Michael Moore: tightening their belt this year continues then it only makes sense that it would make its way into things like, traveling for shows and stuff like that.
• 3:51
  Michael Moore: So that would be my guess.
• 3:53
  Michael Moore: But again, as far as the vendors go, that appears to be very strong.
• 3:59
  Brian Searl: Yeah, I noticed that I don't think OHI was sold out last time I looked.
• 4:02
  Brian Searl: They were still pitching a few booths, but they were pretty close to 200.
• 4:05
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 4:06
  Brian Searl: So yeah, I don't see I thought I've wondered about this year as the e- as the economy is up, down, roller-coastered, whatever is happening to it now, whether that would impact attendance at all, specifically with the vendors.
• 4:17
  Brian Searl: But I think that we've seen the opposite.
• 4:19
  Brian Searl: I wasn't at the glamping show.
• 4:20
  Brian Searl: Were you there, Michael, or?
• 4:22
  Michael Moore: I wasn't, but I heard that was very strong as well as far as vendors and exhibitors go, though.
• 4:27
  Brian Searl: Yeah, I think I it's interesting to me.
• 4:29
  Brian Searl: I'm glad that they're still coming out, but that's kinda the sense I got was like is it the attendees that go first or the vendors?
• 4:34
  Brian Searl: I feel like it's the attendees if anybody- Yeah goes, right?
• 4:37
  Brian Searl: And nobody's saying that anybody's gonna go.
• 4:39
  Brian Searl: But economic-wise, it would be the attendees first because the vendors still need to sell, right?
• 4:44
  Michael Moore: Yeah, and if you look, you've gone as a vendor.
• 4:46
  Michael Moore: I've gone as a vendor.
• 4:47
  Michael Moore: Ben, you may have gone as a vendor.
• 4:48
  Michael Moore: But, for what you get out of those shows, a lot of times it's still a value, whether it's the face time or the networking or the leads or what have you.
• 4:56
  Michael Moore: It's very clear that the exhibitors maybe have not hit a sort of threshold yet that they wouldn't mind meeting.
• 5:02
  Michael Moore: But yeah, as far as attendees go just from experience, things like these events are usually the first thing to go as far as, your travel budget or your marketing budget or what have you,
• 5:12
  Brian Searl: yeah, that's my sense too.
• 5:14
  Brian Searl: Again, it's not a budgetary reason for us, but it was just one of those trade-offs where we were like, if we're gonna skip a year, maybe it's the one that's not on the East Coast.
• 5:21
  Brian Searl: I don't...
• 5:21
  Brian Searl: Where are they next year?
• 5:22
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 5:22
  Brian Searl: Do we know yet?
• 5:23
  Michael Moore: I don't know.
• 5:24
  Michael Moore: I was asking someone that today.
• 5:26
  Michael Moore: I don't know.
• 5:26
  Michael Moore: I, they usually, I know for the public's sake, wait to announce it at the current show, so I'm sure we'll hear about it either-
• 5:32
  Brian Searl: But doesn't it usually bounce between the same places, right?
• 5:34
  Brian Searl: It's Orlando, or it's Louisville, or it's Kansas City, or, and KOA follows the same similar circuit, right?
• 5:40
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 5:40
  Michael Moore: No, I would s-
• 5:41
  Brian Searl: Then KOA gets into Vegas
• 5:42
  Michael Moore: yeah, I would say OHI has gone to different places.
• 5:46
  Michael Moore: They alternate.
• 5:46
  Michael Moore: So Louisville, I think, was a first for them, at least first as far as I can remember.
• 5:51
  Michael Moore: But Fort Worth, they were in Fort Worth, I think, 10 years ago,
• 5:54
  Brian Searl: yeah, and they were in Oklahoma City too.
• 5:56
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 5:57
  Michael Moore: They've been there a couple times the last 10 years or so.
• 5:59
  Michael Moore: So yeah, you're right.
• 6:00
  Michael Moore: They were gonna say-
• 6:01
  Brian Searl: And was it Knox- it was Knoxville.
• 6:02
  Brian Searl: Knoxville was where it was.
• 6:03
  Brian Searl: It wasn't Louisville.
• 6:03
  Brian Searl: I was thinking Louisville before, but Knoxville.
• 6:05
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 6:06
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 6:06
  Michael Moore: But and you're right, they typically do not go any further west than here or Kansas City or what have you.
• 6:12
  Michael Moore: I'd have to go back and see.
• 6:14
  Michael Moore: I think the last time they did was that KOA show in Phoenix, and that was probably 15 years ago or something like that.
• 6:20
  Brian Searl: But yeah, K- KOA was in Vegas, I think, four or five years ago.
• 6:23
  Brian Searl: But out, like Vegas-
• 6:23
  Michael Moore: That's right
• 6:24
  Brian Searl: is the outlier 'cause they can- Yeah draw people to Vegas, I think.
• 6:26
  Brian Searl: But it's that-
• 6:27
  Michael Moore: And look, it i- it is truly about, whether it's OHI or KOA it's what partially plays into it is where you have it and if you can get the locals, right?
• 6:36
  Michael Moore: And so I know for a fact the last time it was in Fort Worth, the OHI show, it was very well attended, so I'm sure that factored into why they came back too,
• 6:44
  Brian Searl: yeah, for sure.
• 6:45
  Brian Searl: Fort Worth is a great city.
• 6:46
  Brian Searl: Ben, how does this work in the RV industry?
• 6:48
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah.
• 6:48
  Brian Searl: And I'm gonna end up jumping on my phone here in a second if I can't get this working.
• 6:51
  Brian Searl: It's showing up on my computer, but it will not let me turn on the camera, so I don't know what's going-
• 6:55
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah, so we're actually we're one week away from the the annual dealers convention.
• 6:58
  Ben Hirsch: That's next week.
• 6:58
  Brian Searl: In Vegas, right?
• 6:59
  Brian Searl: Yeah, RVA
• 7:00
  Ben Hirsch: In Vegas.
• 7:00
  Ben Hirsch: Yep.
• 7:00
  Ben Hirsch: You're asking about attendance there.
• 7:02
  Ben Hirsch: I don't actually anticipate there'd be a huge change in the number of dealers that go, but the number of personnel that each dealer brings, I could see that, that definitely changing, just like you guys said.
• 7:12
  Ben Hirsch: You look at the expense of it and you say, "Okay how many people are we gonna bring this year?"
• 7:15
  Ben Hirsch: And so I can see that changing.
• 7:17
  Ben Hirsch: It's still a really big show for manufacturers, suppliers the banks.
• 7:21
  Ben Hirsch: They all go.
• 7:22
  Ben Hirsch: So I don't see the exhibitor list changing a whole lot.
• 7:26
  Ben Hirsch: There's actually some exhibitors that I, that haven't typically gone that have already told us that they're going to go.
• 7:31
  Ben Hirsch: And that's really it for conventions, 'cause Louisville used to be it, that's gone, and then the other one this, for us, is already passed, which is the open house in September
• 7:40
  Brian Searl: So what did you see-- Did you go to any of the consumer RV shows, Ben, this year?
• 7:44
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah I go to a bunch.
• 7:46
  Ben Hirsch: They're usually, I didn't go to Hershey.
• 7:48
  Ben Hirsch: I, I heard from the team at that one, but I go to the ones typically January through March.
• 7:52
  Ben Hirsch: Like that's-- Those are the ones that I've been going to.
• 7:54
  Ben Hirsch: And actually, in the first quarter, attendance was fine when the weather was good.
• 7:58
  Ben Hirsch: Kinda caught us off guard that the market ended up being quite off as much as it was on the new side because the shows didn't really show-- They didn't predict that if you were just gonna look at some
• 8:06
  Ben Hirsch: of the show attendance.
• 8:09
  Brian Searl: I'm gonna go off for a second and then switch onto my phone, but I can hear you guys still.
• 8:15
  Brian Searl: Was that seamless?
• 8:17
  Brian Searl: Except for an echo?
• 8:17
  Michael Moore: Now there's an echo.
• 8:18
  Ben Hirsch: Yep, echo.
• 8:19
  Brian Searl: I'm walking away from my computer.
• 8:20
  Brian Searl: It'll get better in a second.
• 8:23
  Brian Searl: I just wanted the attention since I wasn't on camera, so you guys could hear me twice.
• 8:28
  Michael Moore: I think, I, I-
• 8:28
  Brian Searl: What do we think the pulse is of, we- we're talking about these shows and how everybody is, expecting decent attendance.
• 8:36
  Brian Searl: I think OHI's gonna have decent attendance.
• 8:37
  Brian Searl: I think KOA is the same, to your point, Ben.
• 8:39
  Brian Searl: I think the dealers are the same because they're coming for education, they're coming for networking more so than anything else.
• 8:44
  Brian Searl: What do we think the outlook is for the consumer?
• 8:46
  Brian Searl: Do we have any sense of that in 2027?
• 8:49
  Brian Searl: Because it wasn't the prettiest of years in 2026.
• 8:52
  Brian Searl: Maybe more is it fair to say it was, it more impacted the RV industry than it did the campground industry in 2026, Ben?
• 8:59
  Brian Searl: Or-
• 9:00
  Ben Hirsch: I got, I have to think it would.
• 9:01
  Ben Hirsch: So some of the data that we're looking at from a sales perspective is, If you look at the whole market, not just new, and you look at just used and stat surveys, we're actually seeing that it's flat year
• 9:10
  Ben Hirsch: over year on the used side.
• 9:12
  Ben Hirsch: So where the industry's dropping off, the 16-ish percent through August, which is the latest stats that we have through stat surveys is it's echoing just a little bit.
• 9:22
  Ben Hirsch: But the 16% off that, that that we saw was on the new side, and when you combine it, I did this math, it's something like 5% total off, because used significantly outsells new.
• 9:32
  Ben Hirsch: A lot of private to private transactions in the industry.
• 9:35
  Ben Hirsch: Which leads me to believe there's not this massive outpouring of customers not using their RVs, buying RVs.
• 9:41
  Ben Hirsch: They're just shifting the buying patterns more than anything.
• 9:44
  Ben Hirsch: They're shifting more towards the used, and that's lead me to believe that they're they're out there using it.
• 9:48
  Ben Hirsch: And the other thing that we're seeing is that the length of ownership is is getting longer as well.
• 9:52
  Ben Hirsch: So the length of the loans have significantly increased from COVID, or right before COVID.
• 9:59
  Ben Hirsch: So length of loans.
• 10:00
  Ben Hirsch: By significantly, a 12 to 24 months is significant.
• 10:02
  Ben Hirsch: It's a real material change.
• 10:05
  Ben Hirsch: So the customers are gonna be owning their RVs for longer as well, with longer loans, and that delays the buying cycle as well.
• 10:11
  Ben Hirsch: So I think we're experiencing a couple different things.
• 10:14
  Ben Hirsch: Yesterday or the day before, Matt Wagner from Camping World actually put out on the the earnings call I listened to it, that they expect the market to be down single digits or flat to down single digits next year.
• 10:26
  Ben Hirsch: We're expecting the same sort of thing on the new side.
• 10:28
  Ben Hirsch: On the used side, we're not expecting to see that, just based on customer shift towards affordability.
• 10:33
  Brian Searl: You think it'll go up on the used side?
• 10:34
  Brian Searl: Sorry, you're just a little bit low now that I'm on my phone.
• 10:36
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah, no I don't know if it's gonna go up.
• 10:39
  Ben Hirsch: This year, it's like within a percent, right?
• 10:41
  Ben Hirsch: So that's, I call that flat.
• 10:42
  Ben Hirsch: Like 1% doesn't really change much one way or the other.
• 10:45
  Ben Hirsch: So I think my, the best guess is that used will be, let's call it stable as a market, and then new will probably be down a few points, 5%, somewhere in that range.
• 10:56
  Ben Hirsch: And the whole market will see it off a little bit with stabilization at some point next year on a year over year basis.
• 11:02
  Ben Hirsch: But that's a big prediction.
• 11:05
  Brian Searl: And is it across all...
• 11:05
  Brian Searl: Sorry, I thought you were, apologize, I thought you were done.
• 11:07
  Brian Searl: Is it across all model types, though, or are you seeing some growth in new camper vans things like that?
• 11:15
  Brian Searl: Or they're not something that dealers typically carry a lot of inventory of.
• 11:19
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah.
• 11:19
  Ben Hirsch: The, the new year-over-year is different based on the types, right?
• 11:23
  Ben Hirsch: Like the hardest hit, I'm going from memory, I don't have the data in front of me, I think like Class A gas is one of the new- one of the hardest hit ones, whereas Class Cs were not as
• 11:31
  Ben Hirsch: down year-over-year from a national basis.
• 11:34
  Ben Hirsch: Travel trailers and fifth wheels, I'm going from memory, I think we're right around what the industry average was.
• 11:39
  Ben Hirsch: But to your question, like predicting out to '27, it just seems like affordability as a primary driver is one thing with a secondary on quality, right?
• 11:47
  Ben Hirsch: Is what I hear from the teams, what I hear from the customers, is that those are two major drivers that we're seeing on the retail side.
• 11:55
  Brian Searl: I think it's interesting a- and Michael, if you have any more thoughts on this, I don't want to talk about the economy the whole show, right?
• 12:01
  Brian Searl: If you have any more thoughts on this my, my standpoint is we're on this precipice here of, yes, we just had, we're not gonna talk about it, but we just had an election, or you guys had an election.
• 12:10
  Brian Searl: I didn't have an election.
• 12:10
  Brian Searl: I'm up in Canada.
• 12:11
  Brian Searl: You guys had an election and whether you're happy with the results or unhappy with the results, I think a lot hinges on what happens now that election has passed, right?
• 12:21
  Brian Searl: Do we continue the things that have been primary causes of the reason that election turned out the way that it did yesterday?
• 12:29
  Brian Searl: Purposely being vague, right?
• 12:30
  Brian Searl: But I think we all understand what contributed to that switch probably in the minds of voters with exit pol- exit polls, stuff like that, whether you agree with it or not, right?
• 12:39
  Brian Searl: So I think the precipice is does that policy continue into 2027, and does it exacerbate gas prices, diesel prices, inflation, things like that, that cause people to tighten up their pocketbooks?
• 12:53
  Brian Searl: Or is this a they didn't like it, so let's reverse what we think they didn't like," just in, just, purposely avoiding politics, right?
• 13:01
  Brian Searl: And then does that result in a comeback of 2027 of people's purchasing ability and power?
• 13:06
  Brian Searl: I think we- it's way too early to tell, right?
• 13:09
  Brian Searl: But-
• 13:10
  Michael Moore: Yeah, I mean-
• 13:11
  Brian Searl: I really think that-
• 13:12
  Michael Moore: Yeah, I was gonna say, everything I've seen about it too, and again, truly to your point, this is not a, a political statement, but I think there's gonna be a real focus on the afford- affordability question in all
• 13:24
  Michael Moore: aspect, whether it's gas, whether it's, utilities, that kinda stuff.
• 13:28
  Michael Moore: And I know even working with, campgrounds with the association here we're doing things or gonna do things legislatively in an effort to fight that too in various ways.
• 13:37
  Michael Moore: And so my point with all that is, it's absolutely gonna be addressed, and I think gonna be touched on.
• 13:44
  Michael Moore: The question is, how quickly will the sort of impact of those changes, if you will, be felt, right?
• 13:50
  Michael Moore: Meaning- Yeah it may be too soon for next summer for people to come back around and go, "You know what?
• 13:55
  Michael Moore: I have more money this summer than I did last year.
• 13:57
  Michael Moore: Let me go take a, an RV trip," or, "Let me take another one," or whatever.
• 14:01
  Michael Moore: But I do think there eventually will be a, a circling back where hopefully, the, the powers that be do things that help people out that, that need it and will give them that kind of extra income buy a
• 14:14
  Michael Moore: new RV or a used one, or take that other trip or what have you.
• 14:19
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah, and, you know- Regardless of where your political stance is, it's pretty obvious that one of the things that was voted for, voted on yesterday when you look at some of the ballot measures, affordability was, like, really in
• 14:33
  Ben Hirsch: voters' minds, right?
• 14:34
  Ben Hirsch: So a good example...
• 14:35
  Ben Hirsch: Love the dog.
• 14:36
  Ben Hirsch: A good example is Florida, right?
• 14:38
  Ben Hirsch: So you look at one of the ballot measures, I live in Florida, one of the ballot measures was on the homestead exemption, which basically is like a property tax relief for homeowners.
• 14:46
  Ben Hirsch: And it was voted over si- it was like 62% voted for it, right?
• 14:51
  Ben Hirsch: So these are people that are really looking at affordability as a major issue for them.
• 14:57
  Ben Hirsch: And then you look at the campaigns that a lot of re- once again, regardless of which side you were listening to, what, what was being talked about, affordability was on the ballot.
• 15:05
  Ben Hirsch: And it seems like, It seems like politicians know what's on the minds of the of the people.
• 15:11
  Ben Hirsch: At least that's kinda one of my takeaways.
• 15:13
  Ben Hirsch: And then-
• 15:13
  Brian Searl: I think they do now.
• 15:14
  Brian Searl: Yeah, I think they do now.
• 15:16
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah, for sure.
• 15:16
  Michael Moore: The ones that won do.
• 15:18
  Ben Hirsch: Right?
• 15:19
  Ben Hirsch: But isn't that kinda the point?
• 15:20
  Ben Hirsch: The ones that won actually usually had campaigns about it.
• 15:23
  Ben Hirsch: Like I, I don't wanna get super political, but Florida's one I track really heavily, right?
• 15:27
  Ben Hirsch: So a Republican did win governor, but he ran on a very, very jobs, and economy, and affordability, like, you know, thing when, when, when the polls got really close there.
• 15:40
  Ben Hirsch: So it was, it's just kinda interesting.
• 15:41
  Ben Hirsch: I think the people are speaking about that.
• 15:43
  Ben Hirsch: I think it impacts our business as a dealer, I think it impacts the campground business because this is what's on people's minds right now, is "How do I continue vacationing in an affordable way?"
• 15:52
  Ben Hirsch: And I think that's trust me, like that is implanted in our minds right now as a dealer is how do we make sure that the piece that we participate in is, continues to be affordable for the customer?
• 16:04
  Ben Hirsch: Because they are getting pinched right now, whether it's at the gas pump, whether it is interest rates, which don't look like they're gonna come down any time soon, right?
• 16:11
  Ben Hirsch: If we're really honest- Yeah the AI sector and the tech sector is driving a lot of investment in the United States economy, and the only lever that the Fed has to put some brakes on that is interest rates.
• 16:23
  Ben Hirsch: So even if we're in pain, housing's in pain, that's gonna be challenging for them to lower interest rates to help us when the AI sector is like really kinda booming.
• 16:32
  Ben Hirsch: So I think we just have to recognize like what, what world do we live in?
• 16:35
  Ben Hirsch: Is interest rates likely going to be relieved in the next 12, 18, 24 months?
• 16:39
  Ben Hirsch: Probably not.
• 16:41
  Ben Hirsch: Could gas prices?
• 16:42
  Ben Hirsch: Who the hell knows?
• 16:43
  Ben Hirsch: It's super geopolitical.
• 16:44
  Ben Hirsch: So we have no control over that.
• 16:46
  Ben Hirsch: That's up to some very few people to decide the geopolitical risk and how that impacts our oil prices.
• 16:54
  Ben Hirsch: So I know it's a long answer, Brian, but my mind goes to like we just have to be super reactive to what's going on 'cause there's a lot we don't control.
• 17:03
  Brian Searl: Welcome, Raf.
• 17:04
  Brian Searl: We're not gonna talk about politics the whole episode, I promise you.
• 17:06
  Brian Searl: So be clear what's on your brain.
• 17:07
  Rafael Correa: It's it's all the rage today-
• 17:09
  Brian Searl: Yeah
• 17:09
  Rafael Correa: and yesterday.
• 17:10
  Brian Searl: But my s- my read on-
• 17:11
  Rafael Correa: I'm just glad political ads are done.
• 17:12
  Rafael Correa: That'll, that's,
• 17:13
  Brian Searl: yeah
• 17:13
  Rafael Correa: that's all.
• 17:14
  Brian Searl: I didn't have an election, so I was fine up here.
• 17:16
  Brian Searl: It was peaceful.
• 17:16
  Brian Searl: But like my, my sense is and I'm, again, I'm an American, I lived there for all my life, right?
• 17:21
  Brian Searl: Until 2021.
• 17:23
  Brian Searl: My sense of what happened was not a rebuke of party, it was a rebuke of policy.
• 17:27
  Brian Searl: Like you were talking about, Ben, right?
• 17:28
  Brian Searl: Like I, I don't think it was a rebuke of the GOP or the Republicans.
• 17:31
  Brian Searl: I think it was a...
• 17:32
  Brian Searl: and there was a tweet by JD Vance that I don't know if you guys read, where he came out and he's "The pollster said," like it was Iran war, inflation, cost of living, America first, and then stop being
• 17:44
  Brian Searl: buddies with Israel, is what Vance said in his post, right?
• 17:47
  Brian Searl: So I think that's- It is what it is, right?
• 17:50
  Brian Searl: The people have spoken.
• 17:50
  Brian Searl: It's not...
• 17:51
  Brian Searl: But I don't think it was a, a revolt against the GOP, to your point, Ben.
• 17:54
  Brian Searl: What do you think, Raf?
• 17:55
  Brian Searl: You wanna weigh in or you wanna change topics immediately?
• 17:58
  Rafael Correa: No, it's...
• 18:00
  Rafael Correa: I think Ben said it super well, right?
• 18:02
  Rafael Correa: And he's talking about the American consumer, but, from a campground owner's perspective, it's the same problem, right?
• 18:07
  Rafael Correa: Costs are going up, revenues are, flat to down.
• 18:10
  Rafael Correa: It is, it's a pinch and it's hitting us.
• 18:12
  Rafael Correa: I sympathize with my dealer and manufacturer friends because we certainly don't have it as bad as they do right now with respect to, sales and shipments and all that stuff, just because that went from, the COVID high to
• 18:23
  Rafael Correa: the COVID reset to where we are today.
• 18:25
  Rafael Correa: But it's definitely making it super hard on our side of the business, and interest rates has a tremendous impact on real estate values and valuation and how that whole cycle works as well.
• 18:36
  Rafael Correa: So we're just living in this super weird time, right?
• 18:39
  Rafael Correa: This super weird time where, we have AI that seems to be fueling this, hopefully fueling this next phase of gigantic growth for this country a- against this kind of juxtaposition of, the individual consumers getting pinched, healthcare costs going
• 18:52
  Rafael Correa: up.
• 18:53
  Rafael Correa: It's not getting better for us.
• 18:54
  Rafael Correa: This age of abundance that some people like to talk about doesn't seem like it's immediately on the horizon, that's for sure.
• 19:00
  Brian Searl: Yeah, I think if you set aside, if you just...
• 19:02
  Brian Searl: Let's just set aside the war in Iran now which seems to be the cause of the top four things that were on Mr.
• 19:08
  Brian Searl: Vance's list at least that his pollster said was the reason that they claimed the GOP lost.
• 19:13
  Brian Searl: Let's set that aside for a second and talk about data centers, 'cause that's the other thing.
• 19:16
  Brian Searl: This episode is about trends and insights and stuff like that, right?
• 19:20
  Brian Searl: There seemed to be an overwhelming sentiment in the elections as well of anti-data center.
• 19:25
  Brian Searl: So the question then becomes is, yes, AI is definitely the way forward.
• 19:29
  Brian Searl: I think we're in an AI bubble, that those companies can never earn back the money that they're borrowing.
• 19:35
  Brian Searl: Doesn't mean AI is not the future.
• 19:37
  Brian Searl: I'm all in on that.
• 19:37
  Brian Searl: But if this political wind change for the data center, for the data centers, that seems to be a large majority of what is propping up the top end of the stock market here, which is probably the, setting aside
• 19:49
  Brian Searl: the Iran war, my biggest worry going into 2027 is that stock market.
• 19:54
  Michael Moore: And look, that was, literally one of the top two or three issues in the governor's race here was the data centers, meaning our current soon-to-be former Governor Abbott was real big on them and welcoming them in here.
• 20:07
  Michael Moore: And then the tide kinda turned and the now, and, governor-elect Hinojosa ran commercials all day every day against it.
• 20:15
  Michael Moore: And before you know it, Abbott was doing a 180 on his position.
• 20:18
  Michael Moore: So at least for Texas, yeah, it was a huge issue, and look, she- that's one of those things that, that the new governor is gonna have to stick to, 'cause that was one of the planks of her entire
• 20:29
  Michael Moore: campaign.
• 20:29
  Michael Moore: So you're right.
• 20:31
  Michael Moore: Now what, how big of an effect it will be, I don't know, but I do know that they're gonna be essentially stopped in their tracks here, at least for the short term.
• 20:39
  Brian Searl: And that impacts our industry, too, which is part of the reason we're talking about it.
• 20:42
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 20:42
  Brian Searl: We have a separate AI episode that's in the fourth week, but there's a whole lot of clients that we have from a marketing perspective, too, I know you probably have, Michael, too- Yeah that are counting on those data
• 20:51
  Brian Searl: centers being built, those construction workers-
• 20:52
  Michael Moore: Yeah
• 20:53
  Brian Searl: who rent from RVer nearby and this is now uncertain now, too.
• 20:57
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 20:57
  Michael Moore: And it's just when they, the, those kinds of campgrounds just accepted "Okay, I'm gonna lean more into the long-term extended stay crowd, but oh, there's this data center, down the road, so I should be good for a while."
• 21:09
  Michael Moore: Now that is oh, now that is up in our, and questionable now, too.
• 21:13
  Michael Moore: Is it still gonna go in?
• 21:15
  Michael Moore: Maybe they're not gonna build as big or as quickly or whatever.
• 21:18
  Michael Moore: So yeah, there's gonna be a little bit of whiplash, I think from the campgrounds anyway, at least in Texas on that.
• 21:26
  Rafael Correa: It's a good point
• 21:29
  Brian Searl: That's all you gotta add, Raf?
• 21:30
  Brian Searl: I was hoping for some real deep wisdom there, man, from you.
• 21:32
  Rafael Correa: I don't think flying Roadsters are gonna save us, but they are pretty cool.
• 21:37
  Brian Searl: It depends.
• 21:38
  Brian Searl: Could you deploy a camper while it's spinning in the air?
• 21:40
  Brian Searl: That would be really interesting.
• 21:42
  Rafael Correa: I think someone made that post.
• 21:43
  Brian Searl: Like, how you would make that up on the sun, wind.
• 21:44
  Rafael Correa: Some- didn't somebody do that with an RV?
• 21:45
  Rafael Correa: I saw somebody, A- an AI post of an RV making that flip.
• 21:48
  Rafael Correa: It was pretty cool.
• 21:50
  Brian Searl: I don't know.
• 21:50
  Brian Searl: I wanna see that though.
• 21:52
  Brian Searl: But it could work.
• 21:52
  Rafael Correa: Only exclusively available at Campers Inn RV.
• 21:55
  Ben Hirsch: Yep.
• 21:56
  Ben Hirsch: And we got a flying RV
• 21:57
  Rafael Correa: Yeah, go to the campers show next week.
• 22:00
  Brian Searl: So we were talking briefly before you got on, Raf, if you wanna weigh in on just some of the upcoming conferences, what we expect as far as attendance, vendors, things like that.
• 22:07
  Brian Searl: Some of the learning, networking sessions I don't think we touched on yet but you're, you're-
• 22:10
  Rafael Correa: Yeah
• 22:10
  Brian Searl: you're on the boards though Raf?
• 22:12
  Rafael Correa: Yeah, I'm on the board for OHI.
• 22:14
  Rafael Correa: So I'm currently serving as the secretary of the executive committee of OHI.
• 22:18
  Rafael Correa: And I'm e- super excited for this year's trade show, and probably not the least of which is what's gonna be unveiled on the technology side.
• 22:25
  Rafael Correa: I've had, because of where we sit in the industry and the volume of properties that we manage, we get a lot of kind of previews of what's coming down the pipe for technology, and it's exciting, right?
• 22:34
  Rafael Correa: And I- and it's across the board, whether it's Campspot Staylist all these new things that are coming to bear on the market are just I think are gonna be game-changing for us as operators in a lot of ways
• 22:45
  Rafael Correa: and also really enhance the guest experience.
• 22:49
  Rafael Correa: That's the two things that I'm probably the most excited about and I'm paying very close attention to see, where the real rubber meets the road in those situations and it's gonna- what's gonna re- add real value to us
• 22:59
  Rafael Correa: as campground operators and owners, and ultimately, get people camping, right?
• 23:03
  Rafael Correa: That's the stuff that's exciting to me.
• 23:05
  Brian Searl: Yeah, that interests me a little bit.
• 23:07
  Brian Searl: I know Staylist, Campspot just announced their AI.
• 23:09
  Brian Searl: We've known that was coming for a while today.
• 23:11
  Brian Searl: And I don't think it's rolling out that, right?
• 23:14
  Brian Searl: It's rolling out slowly over till the end of the year.
• 23:15
  Rafael Correa: We're beta testing it.
• 23:17
  Rafael Correa: When we get to beta test some things 'cause we, we're famous for breaking stuff here at Bluewater.
• 23:21
  Rafael Correa: If there's a glitch in a PMS system, we're gonna find it.
• 23:23
  Rafael Correa: And so we're doing some testing on that, but, exciting what's coming and the things that we have seen rolled out and just little examples, like converting from one PMS system to another used to be an incredibly difficult and
• 23:35
  Rafael Correa: challenging thing to do, especially if you wanna import the historical data with the origin date information, which you need all of that data to make it really useful.
• 23:43
  Rafael Correa: Once upon a time, that was a cumbersome, they didn't wanna do it, nobody really wanted to do it.
• 23:48
  Rafael Correa: But now with AI it's like, it happens.
• 23:50
  Rafael Correa: And transitioning can also happen because of that.
• 23:53
  Rafael Correa: It can rebuild what you have and what people are building with...
• 23:56
  Rafael Correa: I saw somebody sent me the other day Jeff Reed from Staylist sent me a, a mock-up of a website for a property that we're doing that his AI created in one shot, and I was blown away.
• 24:06
  Rafael Correa: Blown away with what it was created.
• 24:09
  Rafael Correa: So I think that's super exciting what's coming up in the trade show.
• 24:12
  Rafael Correa: I think the return of the park model is also gonna be, I think there's gonna be a resurgence.
• 24:17
  Rafael Correa: They've...
• 24:17
  Rafael Correa: if you watch and track the RVIA numbers, park models have continued to it's such a small portion of RV shipments, but it is one of the few that actually had growth this year.
• 24:27
  Rafael Correa: We're seeing it on our side in our Great Outdoor Cottages park model business.
• 24:31
  Rafael Correa: The demand is resurge- resurfacing after a couple years of highs, even with the interest rate increase.
• 24:37
  Rafael Correa: And I think the reason for that more than anything is that people are discovering campgrounds as another way to stay, and the distribution channels are so much better, right?
• 24:46
  Rafael Correa: We got Airbnb, we got Booking, and most of these PMS systems now connect into those channels, and so being able to offer those as alternative stays.
• 24:55
  Rafael Correa: And it's also one where RV was, flat to down, long-term was up long-term stay RV was up, but park models also were up.
• 25:03
  Rafael Correa: And I think it's because we're offering something that you can't get anywhere else.
• 25:06
  Rafael Correa: A park model on a well-amenitized campground is, it's better than a hotel room where your kids can't run up and down the halls, right?
• 25:14
  Rafael Correa: And it's better than an Airbnb because you have a much greater breadth of amenities and mo- more often than not, you're in a great location, right?
• 25:20
  Rafael Correa: And so having a place, the way I always phrase it to people is if you have a place where a kid can freely ride their bike and explore like it's their own home neighborhood, but be on vacation, have
• 25:29
  Rafael Correa: two bedrooms and a kitchen all to yourself, like there's a tremendous value to that to folks.
• 25:34
  Rafael Correa: And the TAM, the total addressable market of people that can stay in a park model on a campground is way bigger than RVers, right?
• 25:43
  Rafael Correa: And so I think that's gonna be a super exciting thing to continue to see grow especially for campground owners.
• 25:49
  Rafael Correa: And there's, as always, it's always fun to go see all the latest and greatest park model units that they bring to these shows.
• 25:56
  Rafael Correa: So I'm thinking that it seems like everybody's seeing increased demand there, and I'm excited to see where that goes into 2027
• 26:04
  Brian Searl: Ben, like we, we're talking a lot about the campground side of, or Raf did, right?
• 26:08
  Brian Searl: About the innovation that the campground, some of the suppliers are able to bring both from, park models to a lesser extent, but to software, which is easier to adapt and I don't wanna limit your answer or even have
• 26:17
  Brian Searl: it necessarily touch on AI, but are there things that the dealers can do to adapt to this environment that you feel like might be changing based on where the consumer's going?
• 26:26
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah there's a lot and it, and there's a ton that we're actually in the midst of doing and I-
• 26:31
  Brian Searl: Please tell us your secrets.
• 26:32
  Brian Searl: Nobody watches the show.
• 26:33
  Ben Hirsch: I know.
• 26:34
  Ben Hirsch: I, my mind went two different directions.
• 26:35
  Ben Hirsch: One is that we're seeing on the product side from the manufacturers, them utilize AI to have quicker turns on product concepts, engineering, that sort of side.
• 26:45
  Ben Hirsch: That's not us as a dealer, but we're seeing that, and that's pretty cool.
• 26:48
  Ben Hirsch: So the speed to execution on things is good, and that should help create products that the c- that the consumer wants, which is good.
• 26:56
  Ben Hirsch: But for us as a dealer, there's a ton, right?
• 26:58
  Ben Hirsch: We joked about vibe coding earlier, but most of our national leaders here at the company do a lot of vibe coding now, right?
• 27:04
  Ben Hirsch: I do, too.
• 27:05
  Ben Hirsch: We can just build things, and we do build things all the time, things that just help me individually that I don't wanna do anymore 'cause I did it a bunch, to actually how do we do things that maybe
• 27:15
  Ben Hirsch: our CRM can't do or our DMS can't do.
• 27:18
  Ben Hirsch: And the weeds is, not just reporting, but automation and analysis so that our teams on the front lines can actually reach out to the customers, give them the information that they need, especially I'm thinking about the service drive.
• 27:30
  Ben Hirsch: We're doing that.
• 27:31
  Ben Hirsch: We're feeding our front lines with more information or beta testing some of it to try to make that s- that life cycle experience much better with a dealer instead of it just being, "Hey, you bought.
• 27:40
  Ben Hirsch: See you later.
• 27:41
  Ben Hirsch: Let me know when you need something."
• 27:42
  Ben Hirsch: It's how do we actually stay more engaged with the customer throughout their entire life cycle so that we're at the center of, How they live and breathe within the RV cycle outside of the campgrounds, outside of using them
• 27:53
  Ben Hirsch: on recreation.
• 27:54
  Ben Hirsch: And that's where a ton of our AI development is going right now, is like around that customer experience.
• 27:59
  Ben Hirsch: You talk about websites, doing mock-ups on websites we've done that.
• 28:03
  Brian Searl: That's pretty bad for all the marketing people.
• 28:05
  Brian Searl: Michael, do you still do websites?
• 28:07
  Michael Moore: Not as much.
• 28:08
  Michael Moore: A little bit, not as much.
• 28:09
  Michael Moore: Certainly not as many as, as you do.
• 28:11
  Michael Moore: That's for sure.
• 28:12
  Brian Searl: No, I- I've been running away from marketing too, man.
• 28:14
  Brian Searl: Don't you worry.
• 28:14
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 28:14
  Brian Searl: I'm finally there.
• 28:16
  Brian Searl: Yep.
• 28:16
  Brian Searl: But sorry,
• 28:16
  Michael Moore: I maybe didn't catch that.
• 28:17
  Michael Moore: But no, I've been but at the same time just to piggyback off all that, yeah, we use a lot of the same tools, and yeah, it- I won't lie, it's super nice to be able to churn out a
• 28:25
  Michael Moore: website in, what, a quarter of the time at a third of the price?
• 28:29
  Michael Moore: Yeah, sign me up,
• 28:31
  Ben Hirsch: and it's better.
• 28:32
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 28:32
  Ben Hirsch: And that's the other thing, is it's better because you don't have to go to one of your teammates for the fifth time and tell them, "Hey, I really didn't like this small little tweak that is gonna annoy you."
• 28:42
  Ben Hirsch: Here's what I want," right?
• 28:43
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah.
• 28:43
  Ben Hirsch: And you just show it to them.
• 28:44
  Ben Hirsch: And they're like, "Oh, okay, cool."
• 28:45
  Brian Searl: And then you wait five days for it to come back and for them to switch an image out and then, yeah.
• 28:48
  Rafael Correa: It's having, it's just having such a, like fundamental shift.
• 28:52
  Rafael Correa: Like I've, just a, by way of example, right?
• 28:54
  Rafael Correa: And so I built my own little command center, and this now is in my email.
• 29:00
  Rafael Correa: It goes to my teams, my granola note taker, and it's basically collating all that into like a living, breathing to-do list that I manage in Jira which is like a work ticket tool.
• 29:10
  Rafael Correa: And the, a lot of the things that I used to use my assistant for, I don't need her anymore.
• 29:14
  Rafael Correa: It is...
• 29:15
  Rafael Correa: I am able to self-manage and keep on top of tasks, appointments, and everything.
• 29:19
  Rafael Correa: But so what she is doing now though is I taught her AI video editing and she's making incredible content for me.
• 29:28
  Rafael Correa: We're getting ready to roll out an entire, third-party management myth series that's about to go out on YouTube, but basically demystifying this concept of third-party management for RV resorts, which for a lot of people that have only ever
• 29:40
  Rafael Correa: been in the RV business, it's like there's this curtain that they can't s- they haven't seen behind, so they're afraid of what they don't know, and so we're trying to pull that back.
• 29:47
  Rafael Correa: But she did all the animations, like we shot the video, and then she's done all the graphics, all the animations, all the thumbnails for the YouTube, and has done a tremendous job, like high quality, right?
• 29:58
  Rafael Correa: And so she's leveling up and I think that's happening, that's just a kind of a base case scenario of what's happening in every organization, is everybody's leveling up and they're spending more time on taste and judgment and creativity
• 30:10
  Rafael Correa: and having great ideas, and I love it.
• 30:13
  Rafael Correa: I think it's...
• 30:14
  Rafael Correa: That to me is that there's this productivity wave that is building in any organization or any individual that's embracing this that is going to hit.
• 30:21
  Rafael Correa: And I would like to my, this is my optimist glass, going back to our discussions earlier, is that productivity wave has got to materialize into something hopefully that is meaningful for the world and the multiple economy.
• 30:33
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 30:34
  Brian Searl: You hit it on the nail on the head.
• 30:35
  Brian Searl: When you say embrace, right?
• 30:37
  Brian Searl: It's it's do those people embrace it or not, and I think most people will, but I think there are some people...
• 30:42
  Brian Searl: And we've, we felt this at our company too, right?
• 30:44
  Brian Searl: We've, we...
• 30:44
  Brian Searl: I've had employees who I've had to let go after three years 'cause I spent three years preaching to them that you gotta learn new skills and you gotta level up, and here's the tools.
• 30:51
  Brian Searl: I'll pay for everything.
• 30:52
  Brian Searl: I'll teach you.
• 30:53
  Brian Searl: We'll have meetings.
• 30:53
  Brian Searl: We'll do whatever.
• 30:54
  Brian Searl: And in three years, like, when I should have probably let them go after a year, right?
• 30:57
  Brian Searl: They still just, they're just people who aren't gonna do that.
• 31:00
  Brian Searl: But I think most people will.
• 31:01
  Brian Searl: And if they embrace that, then yeah, you're right.
• 31:03
  Brian Searl: What interests me too is the speed at which this is moving, and sorry for the barking in the background.
• 31:07
  Brian Searl: There's- Yeah some guys who just walked in to flush out my sprinkler system.
• 31:11
  Brian Searl: Came in my backyard.
• 31:13
  Brian Searl: So what interests me in 2027, I think, and beyond is the speed at which all this is moving.
• 31:17
  Brian Searl: So we talk about the innovations in the PMSs, for example, Rob, just going back there for a second, right?
• 31:22
  Brian Searl: I, I had a demo of Staylist Apex, I think, back in, I don't know, May, something like that, April, May, something like that.
• 31:27
  Brian Searl: Jeff gave me a, a demo, an early demo of it.
• 31:30
  Brian Searl: Really super impressive system.
• 31:31
  Brian Searl: The first thing I said to Jeff was, and I don't mean this to be a criticism, this is just my opinion, is how long is the interface of the software going to be necessary?
• 31:39
  Brian Searl: Because I think that there's, I think there's a trap here, right?
• 31:41
  Brian Searl: I think there's a trap of we got this fancy new AI, and I'm not talking specifically about Staylist, it could be anybody.
• 31:47
  Brian Searl: It could be our own chatbots, right?
• 31:48
  Brian Searl: That we do too.
• 31:49
  Brian Searl: There's this trap of let's add a chatbot, let's add this, let's add it to the back end so we can do reporting, we can talk, we can uncover more data, but that doesn't get our staff away from the
• 31:57
  Brian Searl: booth behind the desk where they need to be, which is outside with a guest.
• 32:03
  Brian Searl: So I don't know how long that lasts.
• 32:04
  Brian Searl: I think the technology leapfrogs that pretty quick.
• 32:08
  Rafael Correa: And that's also why I think, the way we're looking at third-party management, one of the reasons that we're doing this Management Myth series is I've had an influx of conversations with legacy campground owners that are like, "Hey, this
• 32:21
  Rafael Correa: is getting to be too complicated," right?
• 32:23
  Rafael Correa: Like marketing, revenue management, PMS systems.
• 32:26
  Rafael Correa: Like it is, it's g- it's not the same, it's, running a campground is not the same task it was not even a year ago, right?
• 32:34
  Rafael Correa: And forget 10 years ago.
• 32:36
  Rafael Correa: And then there's succession planning questions that pop up that come to us and "Hey, how do we, we don't wanna sell, we wanna keep the campground, but, our only option is management.
• 32:44
  Rafael Correa: We don't know what that means."
• 32:45
  Rafael Correa: And so f- for all those reasons it's gonna get harder, right?
• 32:49
  Rafael Correa: Because if you don't keep up and dive in and be willing to break stuff and make throwaway tools and spend three days building something that you end up throwing away 'cause it wasn't right or knew what you needed,
• 33:00
  Rafael Correa: but it doesn't matter, right?
• 33:01
  Rafael Correa: 'Cause at the end of the day, you learned, and that's what really matters, right?
• 33:05
  Rafael Correa: You gain skills through that process.
• 33:07
  Rafael Correa: But if you're not throwing yourself headlong into this, like you are going to feel some pain in the next few years, and I almost don't care what you do, right?
• 33:15
  Rafael Correa: Other than if you're a electrician, a plumber, like, but even those folks, like their businesses are getting more sophisticated.
• 33:21
  Rafael Correa: And if you look at some of where the VC money is going, the VC's money is going into AI native, building out like the infrastructure to support a plumbing business and an electrician's business and really scale them up,
• 33:34
  Rafael Correa: right?
• 33:35
  Rafael Correa: And so-
• 33:35
  Brian Searl: But then look at the leapfrog.
• 33:37
  Brian Searl: There are already three production runs running for Tesla Optimus.
• 33:40
  Rafael Correa: Yeah.
• 33:42
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah.
• 33:43
  Ben Hirsch: But even on, on that point, it's, 'cause we have a lot of techs, right?
• 33:47
  Ben Hirsch: And so how do I think of a tech's productivity?
• 33:50
  Ben Hirsch: It's when they're turning a wrench, they're being productive.
• 33:53
  Ben Hirsch: When they're typing or doing something with a computer system to tell us what they did turning a wrench, they're not being productive.
• 33:59
  Ben Hirsch: And to your point, like that's why there's so much money going into the AI investment there is 'cause if you can get independent HVAC, AC plumbers, whatever, turning the wrenches more, especially if they're like self-employed or whatnot, that's
• 34:10
  Ben Hirsch: hugely beneficial to 'em.
• 34:12
  Ben Hirsch: So can you charge 'em something so that it saves 'em 20 minutes a job on looking up, billing, all the different thing, and an agent's doing that in the background.
• 34:21
  Ben Hirsch: We are naturally-
• 34:21
  Brian Searl: And that's assuming the consumer.
• 34:22
  Brian Searl: The, the biggest use case of this is doctors entering all the-
• 34:26
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah
• 34:26
  Brian Searl: patient information, right?
• 34:27
  Rafael Correa: Yeah.
• 34:29
  Ben Hirsch: Yep.
• 34:29
  Ben Hirsch: And,
• 34:29
  Rafael Correa: and- even an attorney too, right?
• 34:30
  Rafael Correa: It's all in development.
• 34:31
  Rafael Correa: Like-
• 34:32
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah.
• 34:33
  Rafael Correa: I, and I give my attorney credit.
• 34:35
  Rafael Correa: I just had a meeting with him, and I do a lot of AI attorney review, and then I send it to him in a kind of more summarized, tighter format.
• 34:41
  Rafael Correa: And he actually appreciates it.
• 34:42
  Rafael Correa: He appreciates the things that it highlights, the kind of error checking that it does.
• 34:46
  Rafael Correa: And I'm grateful for that because if he opposed it, it would be a much different conversation.
• 34:51
  Rafael Correa: But to your point earlier, Ben, that I, and I think this is like what interests me is that if I have anybody that's turning a wrench, like you almost need to be thinking about having somebody that's following them
• 35:02
  Rafael Correa: to understand where their downtime is and what their pain points are.
• 35:05
  Rafael Correa: Because there's almost a guarantee that there's a tool that's gonna...
• 35:09
  Rafael Correa: Because at some point or other they're gonna run across a situation that they don't know what quite what to do, but somebody else might have that knowledge, right?
• 35:15
  Rafael Correa: Oh, now a knowledge base would be really helpful, right?
• 35:18
  Rafael Correa: Wouldn't it?
• 35:19
  Rafael Correa: Where we've seen this problem before and this is how we addressed it, right?
• 35:22
  Rafael Correa: Could you imagine if there was a knowledge base for the every brand of RV and every scenario that somebody was populating that came from other dealers so that could bubble up in a real and material and real time
• 35:32
  Rafael Correa: way so that your team would know how to fix an issue that happened, across the country on the same RV?
• 35:37
  Rafael Correa: I don't know.
• 35:38
  Rafael Correa: Maybe that has value.
• 35:39
  Brian Searl: Why don't you, you five code that this afternoon, Ben, when you're done with the show?
• 35:43
  Ben Hirsch: And it's getting closer and closer, right?
• 35:44
  Ben Hirsch: Because the more that you can use your own databases and scrape different things and problem cause repairs that are already in the system, plus then go out there and find, YouTube videos and the transcriptions of them the future's
• 35:55
  Ben Hirsch: coming.
• 35:55
  Ben Hirsch: So I was saying it to some other people just a week ago.
• 35:58
  Ben Hirsch: I said, "There is a real arms race going on within the dealer side."
• 36:01
  Ben Hirsch: I'm willing to bet it's going on in every industry, but there's a real AI arms race going on because you brought it up earlier- If you're not keeping up with it, then what's going to happen is you're gonna
• 36:12
  Ben Hirsch: be at a competitive disadvantage at some point in the future.
• 36:15
  Ben Hirsch: How many months or years?
• 36:16
  Ben Hirsch: Hard to really know.
• 36:17
  Ben Hirsch: Depends on the speed, depends if data centers get capped, like, all sorts of things that aren't in, in our control, but at some point you're at a competitive disadvantage.
• 36:25
  Ben Hirsch: You can't be as affordable to the customer anymore.
• 36:28
  Ben Hirsch: You don't have the things that you need to keep up.
• 36:31
  Ben Hirsch: And then the question is, do you even have the time at that point to then implement these things and be competitive again, or are you so far behind the, the S adoption curve?
• 36:40
  Ben Hirsch: So this is extraordinary times we're living through.
• 36:44
  Rafael Correa: And it's, and, I don't know that all hope is lost.
• 36:46
  Rafael Correa: I do think just by...
• 36:48
  Rafael Correa: And here's a perfect example in Staylist and Campspot and some of the tools that they're building now, is that there was a point in time where I would have to, I felt like I had to build these tools,
• 36:56
  Rafael Correa: and now with AI I felt really empowered to build these tools.
• 36:59
  Rafael Correa: Turns out they're building some of those tools, and now they're more accessible to me, and as long as I'm willing to learn and, and- Yeah accept this idea of maybe a headless PMS system, right?
• 37:09
  Rafael Correa: Then I can do anything that I want with that, that I couldn't maybe do before, which is great if I, everything I have is on Staylist.
• 37:17
  Rafael Correa: I still have to create the adaption of I have Staylist, I have KOA, I have Newbook, I have Campspot, right?
• 37:22
  Rafael Correa: These are the reasons why we have to be able to still build the tools behind that.
• 37:26
  Rafael Correa: But I guarantee you and if it's not the dealer management system that you're on, your DMS today somebody's gonna be coming out with a better mousetrap on the DMS side that is then gonna be come and make that
• 37:35
  Rafael Correa: available to everyone, right?
• 37:36
  Rafael Correa: So in some scenarios I think you can wait.
• 37:40
  Rafael Correa: What's really important as an organization is you need to identify the scenarios that nobody's gonna solve for, right?
• 37:46
  Rafael Correa: And then attack those problems.
• 37:48
  Brian Searl: But that's what you just talked about, Raf.
• 37:50
  Brian Searl: You just gave you...
• 37:51
  Brian Searl: it seemed like I was being cavalier to say you go vibe code this, but you can actually do that.
• 37:54
  Brian Searl: You can't do it in an afternoon, right?
• 37:56
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 37:56
  Brian Searl: You just go, "I can probably do it in a week."
• 37:58
  Brian Searl: Our new VP chatbot that's gonna come out in a se- in, in, and it's already being tested on where they rent, right?
• 38:03
  Brian Searl: But it's, it has a dealer look up for RVs, where you can go in there and you can say, "Here's the, I don't remember the length of my RV, but here's my model," and it'll look up a catalog
• 38:10
  Brian Searl: and it'll tell you the length of your model right in the chat- Yeah so that we can pick your site and do everything else, right?
• 38:16
  Brian Searl: So all that stuff is very, I don't wanna say easy, 'cause it's not easy, but it's absolutely doable today.
• 38:23
  Brian Searl: And that's where I think- Totally the leapfrogging ends up happening, is what, what product can I solve, whether that's me or Michael or Ben or you, Raf, or whatever, what problem can I solve that nobody thinks is a
• 38:34
  Brian Searl: problem right now because they've never imagined a solution to it That's where I think the power is.
• 38:39
  Rafael Correa: That's-
• 38:40
  Michael Moore: I mean-
• 38:40
  Rafael Correa: that's what the future of creativity, like that's gonna be what people value in the end, right?
• 38:43
  Rafael Correa: Is that, that ability to see it, solve it.
• 38:46
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 38:47
  Michael Moore: And I, for me, and again, you guys were using an example of a tech.
• 38:50
  Michael Moore: And that's, a- again, it's a perfect example of that.
• 38:54
  Michael Moore: There's a task to be done, and you can apply this to do that.
• 38:58
  Michael Moore: I'm gonna be really interested to see, when you apply that to campgrounds and operations, obviously that's gonna free up, like we talked about, a lot of time and a lot of just effort.
• 39:09
  Michael Moore: And so how are campgrounds gonna repurpose that now that they're able to take care a lot of these tasks that may have taken a lot of time and manpower before, but hey, they're able to take care of it
• 39:20
  Michael Moore: a fraction of the time.
• 39:21
  Michael Moore: I'm I'm very curious, and again, it's already happening, what campgrounds are gonna do with sort of that, that ex- that refocus, if you will.
• 39:29
  Michael Moore: And how are they gonna apply that to the experience, and- I think what I'm- I think that's really interesting and exciting because you're gonna have a lot of different campgrounds and operations trying things, and it's gonna be, different
• 39:41
  Michael Moore: no matter where you go and what type of park and what part of the country and stuff like that.
• 39:45
  Michael Moore: So that's, again, just more from the campground side for me, that's the part that I think is very exciting, that this stuff is great to take care of a lot of the mundane.
• 39:54
  Michael Moore: What are they gonna do with the sort of fun stuff, if you will?
• 39:57
  Brian Searl: Yeah, I think on a macro level and again, there's all kinds of different micro ways to do this, but on a macro level I see it splitting into two different ways.
• 40:04
  Brian Searl: It's do I actually just get rid of the employees and keep the guest experience the same?
• 40:09
  Brian Searl: Or, and I think this is where it goes with smaller mom-and-pop operators if they're into hospitality, is now I've got time to meet my guests.
• 40:15
  Brian Searl: I don't have to be stuck behind the desk, so I don't have to hire other people, but I can make the experience better.
• 40:20
  Brian Searl: The question I'm interested in, and I'm not gonna put this on you, Raf, but you can tackle it if you want, from the larger players in our industry, does that pressure come to cost cut before it comes to
• 40:31
  Brian Searl: improve the guest experience in an economy that's uncertain?
• 40:35
  Rafael Correa: So I think that what I would say is hospitality will almost, this is Raf speaking, Raf's opinion, Raf's theories, right?
• 40:42
  Rafael Correa: Like-
• 40:42
  Brian Searl: Yep
• 40:44
  Rafael Correa: I don't think hospitality can go, Optimus robot or become peopleless.
• 40:48
  Rafael Correa: In, at its most fundamental level, hospitality is the sacrifice of your time for someone else's time, right?
• 40:55
  Rafael Correa: At its most basic, primal definition.
• 40:57
  Rafael Correa: And so-
• 40:58
  Brian Searl: 100% agree
• 40:59
  Rafael Correa: if somebody's not creating that sacrifice then is it hospitality, right?
• 41:04
  Rafael Correa: Is the way I look at it.
• 41:05
  Rafael Correa: But 100%, it's gonna create more opportunity for relationships, and quite frankly, the way the world is going, we need to find the opportunities where all the waste is all the time waste is.
• 41:15
  Rafael Correa: Cut that labor out absolutely, right?
• 41:18
  Rafael Correa: And the more a guest can self-serve in a check-in process or whatever you go to McDonald's now, you don't go to a checkout c- you go to the thing and do, do, iPad your order in, and you're done,
• 41:27
  Rafael Correa: right?
• 41:28
  Rafael Correa: And that's the way the world needs to go because for the little amount of labor that I can afford to have on these properties, I need it being extremely guest experience focused, right?
• 41:38
  Rafael Correa: Even at the airlines you don't go to the desk anymore.
• 41:41
  Rafael Correa: They make you do, do, do on a screen.
• 41:42
  Rafael Correa: There's a one person floating around four or five stations, maybe 10 stations, depending how busy it is, and supporting you.
• 41:49
  Rafael Correa: That's the way the world is going.
• 41:50
  Rafael Correa: It's just now we have to then repurpose that labor to where it adds the most value, right?
• 41:54
  Rafael Correa: And getting s- forms signed and the silliness of a check-in process and collecting a credit card, that's not...
• 42:01
  Rafael Correa: That conversation can be very worthwhile in connecting with the guest.
• 42:04
  Rafael Correa: "Where are you from?
• 42:05
  Rafael Correa: How have you been there?"
• 42:06
  Rafael Correa: But that doesn't require all the busy work, right?
• 42:08
  Rafael Correa: And if you can get rid of the busy work and spend the time on "Hey, welcome.
• 42:11
  Rafael Correa: Let me show you around.
• 42:12
  Rafael Correa: Let me give you a tour," right?
• 42:14
  Rafael Correa: "Let me show you around the campground.
• 42:15
  Rafael Correa: You never been here before?
• 42:16
  Rafael Correa: Oh my gosh.
• 42:16
  Rafael Correa: Have you met this person?"
• 42:18
  Rafael Correa: And then now I'm delivering a world-class experience with a different cost structure, and that's exciting to me.
• 42:24
  Brian Searl: So I think the most important thing that you said out of all that is who do I blame when the pickles are on my cheeseburger and I don't want them?
• 42:32
  Brian Searl: When it was my fault and I have nobody to be accountable for.
• 42:34
  Rafael Correa: It's a beautiful thing, buddy.
• 42:36
  Rafael Correa: Personal accountability.
• 42:37
  Brian Searl: I don't know, man.
• 42:38
  Brian Searl: I don't know if I can handle that, man.
• 42:40
  Brian Searl: Ben, you were gonna talk, I think.
• 42:41
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah, businesses have...
• 42:42
  Ben Hirsch: it's funny 'cause I've been talking internally to our team about this- there's two different strategies, and I'm not saying it's one or the other, 'cause there can be th- you can choose along a spectrum, but there's a spectrum
• 42:53
  Ben Hirsch: of strategies, right?
• 42:55
  Ben Hirsch: And what AI is doing is it's making things a little bit more on the extreme of it.
• 42:59
  Ben Hirsch: So on the one is what you're talking about, rip the cost out, commoditization strategy.
• 43:04
  Ben Hirsch: So McDonald's is definitely leaning into a commoditization strategy.
• 43:07
  Ben Hirsch: The burger's the same every time you get it, and if we can rip the humans out, fantastic, right?
• 43:12
  Ben Hirsch: And then you have a differentiation strategy, which it's funny, if you ask your AI, it's always gonna lead you down, "Go differentiation strategy," like they're pre-programmed to think that way.
• 43:20
  Ben Hirsch: There's some biases that I've read about in articles that's really funny.
• 43:23
  Ben Hirsch: So then, but then as a business, you have to ask yourself, okay, you don't have to go all 100% one or 100% the other, but where do you wanna be on that spectrum?
• 43:30
  Ben Hirsch: Do you wanna be the Ritz Carlton dr- driving really differentiated strategy, all the way to the Red Roof Inn, driving a really commoditized strategy, or somewhere in the middle, and where do you end up?
• 43:41
  Ben Hirsch: And and then my, my question for a lot of businesses is that clear to you, and have you described it internally to your team?
• 43:47
  Ben Hirsch: Do you know what strategy you're actually going after?
• 43:50
  Ben Hirsch: And for us as an RV dealer we've chosen to be more on the differentiated strategy as a family-owned and operated, not one of the consolidators.
• 43:58
  Ben Hirsch: That's just our shtick.
• 43:59
  Ben Hirsch: And so we do training all the time with our people.
• 44:01
  Ben Hirsch: We talk about the hospitality moments, those special moments.
• 44:04
  Ben Hirsch: Whereas we look at some of our competitors, they're going more commoditized, and I'm not even saying that's wrong Market's gonna call for it.
• 44:11
  Ben Hirsch: Some customers are gonna want a more commoditized experience when buying and servicing RVs.
• 44:16
  Ben Hirsch: Okay, have it, right?
• 44:17
  Ben Hirsch: That's gonna be your shtick, and that's what you're gonna go after.
• 44:19
  Ben Hirsch: But I think in th- when you have this much availability of tools and option strategy, and taking that step back and really thinking, "Where am I going?
• 44:30
  Ben Hirsch: Where am I go-" And I think five years is a pipe dream because AI's changing it so fast, but where am I at least going the next six to 24 months?
• 44:36
  Ben Hirsch: And then what am I building for?
• 44:38
  Ben Hirsch: I think that's really key right now.
• 44:40
  Brian Searl: And it's one of the hardest things though, too.
• 44:42
  Brian Searl: To- Yes to Raf's point it, it's I forget what you said exactly, Raf, but figuring out what that strategy is so that you can understand where to go next is really challenging for, I think, a lot of people,
• 44:54
  Brian Searl: especially given the way the technology's moving so fast.
• 44:56
  Brian Searl: But even in a normal pre-AI era, it's figuring where do I go and how do I adapt it, how do I get there?
• 45:02
  Rafael Correa: And I think that's, and that's wh- the tact we're taking, and I think, Ben you really said it well, kind of which way you to go with it and how you communicate it, because I think it's important that
• 45:11
  Rafael Correa: you communicate with your organization as to the direction and the why and how.
• 45:16
  Rafael Correa: Like, all of those things just help create so much clarity so people can push in the right direction, and that's, that's business 101.
• 45:23
  Rafael Correa: But specifically around AI, which is just all around us, to not have a position, to not have is i- it's almost irresponsible at this point in time.
• 45:30
  Rafael Correa: And for us as an organization, because we are a relatively large organization, we are really hyper-focused on the two kind of foundational components.
• 45:38
  Rafael Correa: I'm not trying to build super snazzy tools that are guest-facing today.
• 45:42
  Rafael Correa: I wanna focus on building my data layer.
• 45:45
  Rafael Correa: I wanna focus on building my knowledge layer, right?
• 45:48
  Rafael Correa: At a very high level, and I wanna systematize those two functions, right?
• 45:52
  Rafael Correa: Because if I have both of those two things that's the f- that's the pillars that anything else I ever wanna do gets built off of.
• 45:59
  Rafael Correa: And so that's the two areas that we're really prioritizing as an organization, is making sure that we understand that.
• 46:06
  Rafael Correa: And then we're also doing a ton of mapping.
• 46:08
  Rafael Correa: Like, all the things that we do today it's insane to think of the number of softwares and applications and systems that all have to interface to make what we do happen.
• 46:17
  Rafael Correa: And when you see it on paper, documenting it, mapping it, which AI does so beautifully and so easily, which was before that's a giant ask to do that.
• 46:26
  Rafael Correa: It's not a big ask anymore.
• 46:27
  Rafael Correa: You can literally have a bunch of interviews, take your s- transcripts, and have it draw it up for you.
• 46:32
  Rafael Correa: It's that easy.
• 46:34
  Rafael Correa: But like those are the things that we're doing to build this foundation because I don't know where to really spend...
• 46:39
  Rafael Correa: I know some areas that it's very obvious to spend time in, but I know that if I wanna do anything meaningful, like I need to have that in a very good order.
• 46:47
  Brian Searl: So how do you and maybe the same question to you, Raf, and the same question to you, Michael, and then maybe for the typical RV dealer to you, Ben, and then we'll maybe ask each other questions to close
• 46:55
  Brian Searl: out the show.
• 46:56
  Brian Searl: If you're a mom-and-pop campground owner, or not managed by an organization like Blue Water, where do you start?
• 47:03
  Brian Searl: How do you f- where do you start to figure out what your strategy should be with not only all the changes coming at us with AI, but also the economy and everything else?
• 47:13
  Rafael Correa: If I'm a campground owner today, I am going to, I'm gonna get a, I'm gonna scoop up a Claude license.
• 47:19
  Rafael Correa: I am going to make sure I can connect it effectively to my accounting system.
• 47:23
  Rafael Correa: I'm gonna have it help me do rec- reconciliations.
• 47:26
  Rafael Correa: I'm gonna have it analyze my financials for opportunities for spend control.
• 47:31
  Rafael Correa: I'm gonna sign up with a tool called Ramp probably, right?
• 47:33
  Rafael Correa: For to manage credit card and expense management.
• 47:37
  Rafael Correa: I'm gonna modernize my backend and my financial backend so that I have ultimate visibility as to what I'm spending, what I'm spending it on, and then use that information to then create a tactical strategy to actually refine it,
• 47:51
  Rafael Correa: right?
• 47:51
  Rafael Correa: And find the right tools.
• 47:53
  Rafael Correa: Because the, if you're not playing with the numbers to start with, and that's where exactly where I would start, is I would start with that, that backend financial management piece and have that and have Claude be able to
• 48:04
  Rafael Correa: be my basically assistant controller helping me figure out opportunities and identify weaknesses in my operation.
• 48:12
  Brian Searl: Michael?
• 48:13
  Michael Moore: Yeah, I would probably go even more basic than that.
• 48:16
  Michael Moore: And I think, and I think this is true not just obviously in the campground world, but in life in general, that self-awareness is a very underrated trait.
• 48:25
  Michael Moore: And not everyone has it.
• 48:26
  Michael Moore: Everyone may think they have it, and they may think they know their own business, but they don't.
• 48:30
  Michael Moore: And so yeah, I would echo that, meaning use the tools available.
• 48:35
  Michael Moore: A- and again, there's 100 out there, but something that will really put everything in one place for you.
• 48:41
  Michael Moore: 'Cause again, if we're using the mom-and-pop example, as we all know, tho- those folks can be kinda all over the place, and all the knowledge is in their head, and nothing's written down.
• 48:50
  Michael Moore: And so I, again, I go even more simple than what Raf was saying and make sure that all that is memorialized somewhere so you can even start doing that.
• 48:59
  Michael Moore: 'Cause again, if you're running into those campgrounds that have been family-owned and they've, operated the same way for the last 50 years that, that's, even that's gonna be a lot to, to start with.
• 49:09
  Michael Moore: So you gotta start somewhere, and you just gotta start putting it down and just jump in
• 49:14
  Brian Searl: Ben?
• 49:15
  Ben Hirsch: It's like we're in the same business.
• 49:17
  Ben Hirsch: 'Cause as I'm listening to you guys, I'm like, "It's not that much different for a dealer," right?
• 49:20
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah, the, like dealers look at us and "Oh, you guys have 50 stores, which is why you can do that."
• 49:25
  Ben Hirsch: But that's not the reason why.
• 49:26
  Ben Hirsch: The reason why is 'cause we built a culture at our executive level to really jump in, and we challenge each other to get really good at learning AI, and then doing what you guys are talking about, hooking it
• 49:38
  Ben Hirsch: up to our systems, analyzing things.
• 49:40
  Ben Hirsch: Not- Not just waiting for someone else to come out with it.
• 49:44
  Ben Hirsch: And it's funny 'cause you mentioned the Michael, you mentioned the forget how you said it, but everybody basically overestimates the- The self-aware.
• 49:50
  Michael Moore: Yeah
• 49:50
  Ben Hirsch: yeah the, the self-aware.
• 49:52
  Ben Hirsch: The, the what's the study?
• 49:53
  Ben Hirsch: It's 80-something percent of people think they're an above average driver, right?
• 49:56
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah.
• 49:56
  Ben Hirsch: Okay.
• 49:57
  Ben Hirsch: So it's human nature.
• 49:58
  Ben Hirsch: It's like-
• 49:58
  Brian Searl: That's what I thought it was.
• 49:59
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 50:00
  Brian Searl: Listen, I've been, I drove th- I drove through the Philippines behind the wheel I'm an above average driver.
• 50:05
  Brian Searl: I approve.
• 50:05
  Rafael Correa: That's hilarious.
• 50:06
  Ben Hirsch: Sure.
• 50:06
  Ben Hirsch: I never For all of us on this call are think this way,
• 50:08
  Rafael Correa: but I like it.
• 50:08
  Rafael Correa: Yeah.
• 50:08
  Ben Hirsch: Just ask us, right?
• 50:09
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah.
• 50:09
  Ben Hirsch: We're all above average drivers.
• 50:11
  Ben Hirsch: But that's the point, right?
• 50:12
  Ben Hirsch: So then to, to your point, Michael do you actually just take the AI the way it is?
• 50:16
  Ben Hirsch: Do you actually have customized language to make sure it challenges you in your thinking, right?
• 50:20
  Ben Hirsch: Some people say that my AI's a little bit of a jerk because I it's told to challenge me on the thinking.
• 50:25
  Ben Hirsch: But then- same thing.
• 50:26
  Ben Hirsch: I'm ver- I'm very supportive of some of the software developers that I've seen in the industry because they're doing what we're doing internally.
• 50:35
  Ben Hirsch: But the smaller dealer, I think, is gonna have a hard time just developing as much 'cause they don't have the team.
• 50:40
  Ben Hirsch: So there's a lot of cost-effective software solutions that I see coming out that do things in the dealer space.
• 50:45
  Ben Hirsch: I'm sure you guys are seeing the same, but you guys are probably doing it on the on the campground side.
• 50:49
  Ben Hirsch: And what I would tell the smaller mom and pops, just keep your eyes and ears open.
• 50:53
  Ben Hirsch: Listen to podcasts.
• 50:54
  Ben Hirsch: Go to the conferences.
• 50:55
  Ben Hirsch: Just ask people what they're doing.
• 50:57
  Ben Hirsch: There's 20 groups on the dealer side, there's probably similar things on the campground side.
• 51:01
  Ben Hirsch: Go to these things and ask the questions and you won't be left behind, because nobody's gonna get so far ahead that everybody's smoked on this.
• 51:08
  Ben Hirsch: That's just not gonna happen.
• 51:10
  Ben Hirsch: Capitalism can be a great thing sometimes, right?
• 51:12
  Ben Hirsch: So people are gonna compete, they're gonna develop new things.
• 51:15
  Ben Hirsch: Keep your ear to the ground.
• 51:16
  Ben Hirsch: You can still compete against the the bigger campground groups, the bigger dealers, because there's enough people developing out there that it exists.
• 51:24
  Brian Searl: Yeah, that's one of the things that most excites me, is there's no more moat for if you're the biggest.
• 51:29
  Brian Searl: Let's pick on Campspot for a second, right?
• 51:31
  Brian Searl: 3,500 campgrounds.
• 51:33
  Brian Searl: There's no moat for Campspot anymore, especially when you, as you eloquently pointed out, and I'm not saying, Raf, this, you were intending to to give you this toward Campspot, right?
• 51:41
  Brian Searl: But when every reservation system has a new AI, and they don't all yet, right?
• 51:44
  Brian Searl: But some of the newer ones do StayList and, I think CampGuide we've talked about before, a few other ones.
• 51:49
  Brian Searl: CampGuide was on the show last week.
• 51:51
  Brian Searl: When they can migrate, that's the biggest hesitation for switching reservation systems, is the hassle of doing that migration.
• 51:57
  Brian Searl: So I'm not saying that means everybody leaves Campspot.
• 51:59
  Brian Searl: Campspot has a great system.
• 52:01
  Brian Searl: I'm just saying it's another thing to think about.
• 52:03
  Rafael Correa: And it, I think you have to pick your spots, right?
• 52:05
  Rafael Correa: This goes back to what I said earlier, is that it, does Bluewater get better by- building a PMS system.
• 52:11
  Rafael Correa: Like at one point Northgate got better by building Campspot.
• 52:15
  Rafael Correa: Like it was the decision they made that quite frankly gave them a competitive advantage as an organization and then gave birth to that, that software package, right?
• 52:24
  Rafael Correa: And at the time there wasn't a better tool available, and so they did it.
• 52:27
  Rafael Correa: It's the same reason Blue Water got into the management business.
• 52:29
  Rafael Correa: It's not because we wanted to be third-party managers or wanted to manage assets, like we wanted just to own them and be real estate developers.
• 52:35
  Rafael Correa: But we had to, it was like a necessity to get it done.
• 52:38
  Rafael Correa: But for us today to build a PMS system and then have to deal with the credit card processing and the features and then every other Tom, Dick, and Harry's, you know, request for, a feature, like no thank you.
• 52:50
  Rafael Correa: Like I- I'm 100% okay and I'd rather be the best campground operator and really focus on the areas where I can, my specific knowledge delivers real outcomes for people.
• 53:00
  Rafael Correa: Like that's where I wanna stay focused and that's where I'm picking my spots.
• 53:05
  Brian Searl: For sure.
• 53:05
  Brian Searl: Raf, you have any questions for Ben or Michael?
• 53:08
  Rafael Correa: Michael, am I gonna see you next week?
• 53:11
  Michael Moore: I live here, brother.
• 53:12
  Michael Moore: I'm here all the time.
• 53:13
  Michael Moore: So-
• 53:14
  Rafael Correa: I can't wait.
• 53:14
  Rafael Correa: I'm coming to your state.
• 53:15
  Rafael Correa: I gotta announce it, right?
• 53:16
  Rafael Correa: I know.
• 53:16
  Michael Moore: Oh, I've been there.
• 53:16
  Rafael Correa: I don't come over state lines without announcing myself.
• 53:18
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 53:19
  Michael Moore: No, I, it's 20 minutes up the highway.
• 53:21
  Michael Moore: I'll be there,
• 53:21
  Rafael Correa: awesome, man.
• 53:22
  Rafael Correa: I look forward to seeing you.
• 53:23
  Rafael Correa: Yeah.
• 53:23
  Rafael Correa: And Ben it's I've seen your name in many headlines before, so I, it's good to meet you in person.
• 53:27
  Ben Hirsch: Oh.
• 53:27
  Ben Hirsch: Just ignore the ones that aren't the good headlines.
• 53:30
  Rafael Correa: Yeah.
• 53:31
  Rafael Correa: It's better than those FBI reports, right?
• 53:33
  Ben Hirsch: Exactly.
• 53:35
  Brian Searl: Ben, do you have any questions for Raf or Michael?
• 53:37
  Ben Hirsch: No, I think they've been great, guys.
• 53:41
  Rafael Correa: It's funny to hear how we're thinking about AI in two, related but totally different worlds.
• 53:46
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah.
• 53:47
  Rafael Correa: But, and thinking about it in a very similar way.
• 53:49
  Michael Moore: I'm gonna credit Brian for that.
• 53:51
  Michael Moore: He's bringing the like minds together,
• 53:53
  Brian Searl: well-
• 53:53
  Rafael Correa: He has a way of doing that.
• 53:56
  Brian Searl: Doing my best, man.
• 53:57
  Brian Searl: You guys are the real brains behind everything,
• 53:59
  Rafael Correa: yeah, I'll see you tomorrow, next week too, right Brian?
• 54:02
  Brian Searl: No, I'm not coming, man.
• 54:03
  Rafael Correa: What?
• 54:04
  Brian Searl: Yeah, I got too many things I'm building.
• 54:05
  Brian Searl: I'm building two huge things that are gonna change our industry permanently.
• 54:08
  Brian Searl: They're bigger than Modern Campground-
• 54:10
  Rafael Correa: All right
• 54:10
  Brian Searl: i'm that one.
• 54:10
  Rafael Correa: Let me know when you're ready for, give me a preview.
• 54:14
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 54:15
  Brian Searl: It's coming soon, though.
• 54:16
  Brian Searl: But yeah, I'm heads down building.
• 54:17
  Brian Searl: I figured it was a good year to take off 'cause they were in Texas and-
• 54:20
  Rafael Correa: Oh, geez yeah.
• 54:21
  Brian Searl: Not because of Texas, just because it's usually...
• 54:23
  Brian Searl: I was telling the guys before it started, I think.
• 54:25
  Brian Searl: Or I was telling somebody earlier today, it's generally just a little bit less well-attended outside of the East Coast, so that's why.
• 54:31
  Rafael Correa: I think this one's gonna be a record,
• 54:33
  Brian Searl: I hope so
• 54:34
  Rafael Correa: in my, my opinion-
• 54:34
  Brian Searl: If our guests show up, we'll get to see
• 54:35
  Rafael Correa: just because I, just mostly because it's in Texas.
• 54:37
  Rafael Correa: I think that, and the, just the number of campgrounds in Texas are huge, and it's pretty central for the West Coast, too.
• 54:44
  Rafael Correa: So I will say that the, the advanced ticket purchases have been above pace of even last year, which was a record.
• 54:52
  Rafael Correa: So it's I don't even know if I'm allowed to say that, but...
• 54:56
  Brian Searl: Nobody watching-
• 54:56
  Michael Moore: I don't think they're gonna mind you saying that,
• 54:58
  Rafael Correa: yeah.
• 54:59
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 55:00
  Rafael Correa: It's like telling everybody how- No, I think it'll be- But it's a secret how handsome Brian is,
• 55:03
  Brian Searl: no.
• 55:04
  Brian Searl: But yeah, I think it's gonna be a good show.
• 55:05
  Brian Searl: I was just, it was just one of those things where I'm heads down, and like I, I can get a lot done in three weeks.
• 55:10
  Brian Searl: I'm not going to KOA either pretty-
• 55:11
  Rafael Correa: I will be there as well excited.
• 55:13
  Rafael Correa: It's trade show season.
• 55:13
  Rafael Correa: And then I'm coming to Canada.
• 55:15
  Rafael Correa: I'm coming to do a Montreal and and Quebec for Thanksgiving this year.
• 55:18
  Rafael Correa: We're going to a place that doesn't celebrate it.
• 55:20
  Brian Searl: It's on the opposite side of, and you know that when you get into Canada, our Thanksgiving was actually at the end of the harvest, not-
• 55:26
  Rafael Correa: Yeah
• 55:27
  Brian Searl: just randomly next to a shopping day in November.
• 55:30
  Rafael Correa: I get it.
• 55:31
  Brian Searl: Okay.
• 55:31
  Rafael Correa: You guys have two months of summer,
• 55:32
  Michael Moore: hey, restaurants will be open,
• 55:33
  Brian Searl: all right.
• 55:34
  Brian Searl: Final thoughts, Michael, and then where can they learn more about AGS or TACO, whatever you wanna talk about?
• 55:38
  Michael Moore: Yeah, no, this has been great and I, again, it's the kinda thing that the conversation's only gonna continue, and I think it's all good stuff.
• 55:45
  Michael Moore: Yeah, with the trade shows I'll be there next week at OHI, just kinda dropping in and visiting folks on behalf of AGS Guest Guides and then also the Texas Association of Campground Owners, so welcome to everyone coming to
• 55:58
  Michael Moore: our fine state.
• 56:00
  Brian Searl: Awesome.
• 56:01
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Michael.
• 56:02
  Brian Searl: Ben, where can they learn more about Campers Inn, and any final thoughts?
• 56:07
  Ben Hirsch: Yeah.
• 56:07
  Ben Hirsch: If anybody wants to learn more about it, just go to campersin.com, learn all about us.
• 56:11
  Ben Hirsch: So that's it.
• 56:14
  Brian Searl: And then Raf, last but not least, final thoughts and where can they learn more about Modern
• 56:16
  Rafael Correa: Campground?
• 56:16
  Rafael Correa: Sure.
• 56:16
  Rafael Correa: Website is BWDC, that's bravowhiskydeltacharlie.com.
• 56:21
  Rafael Correa: And yeah, just final thoughts are, one make sure you check out the Management Myth series.
• 56:26
  Rafael Correa: We're gonna be dropping that later this week before we head into the trade shows.
• 56:29
  Rafael Correa: Come see me at the trade shows too.
• 56:31
  Rafael Correa: I'll be, I'll have a- Blue Water will have a booth.
• 56:34
  Rafael Correa: And then finally, I just, keep chiming in on this, but if you're...
• 56:37
  Rafael Correa: Don't be afraid of AI.
• 56:38
  Rafael Correa: Jump in there, break stuff, have fun.
• 56:41
  Rafael Correa: Make something that is like a throwaway tool.
• 56:45
  Rafael Correa: You don't have to have a master plan and when you're getting in there.
• 56:47
  Rafael Correa: So just get in there, and one thing will lead to another, but you have to start.
• 56:52
  Rafael Correa: So for those people that are still on the fence just get in there.
• 56:54
  Rafael Correa: I've even got my parents going down the, the rabbit hole with me now.
• 56:59
  Brian Searl: Awesome.
• 56:59
  Brian Searl: Thank you guys for joining us on another episode of MC Fireside Chat.
• 57:01
  Brian Searl: Scott Bahr and I are off again for Outwired.
• 57:03
  Brian Searl: He's traveling back from the Canadian conference still.
• 57:05
  Brian Searl: But he'll be at OH- I hope he at OHI next week, I think so.
• 57:08
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 57:08
  Rafael Correa: Yeah.
• 57:08
  Rafael Correa: Yeah.
• 57:09
  Brian Searl: And all right, take care.
• 57:10
  Brian Searl: We'll see you next week, guys.
• 57:11
  Brian Searl: I appreciate you being here.
• 57:12
  Brian Searl: See you.
• 57:12
  Rafael Correa: See you guys.