Latest / The Internal Move Podcast with Fexingo: Lateral Roles, Internal Transfers, and Staying at Your Company / How to Use an Internal Transfer to Build Leadership Skills Without the Title
Transcript
- Lucas: So let's say you've been in the same role for three years. You're good at it. But you look at the next rung on the ladder — manager — and it's either blocked by someone who isn't leaving, or you just don't have the kind of experience the company wants to see in a people leader. Luna: Right, and that classic catch-22: you can't get the promotion without leadership experience, but you can't get leadership experience without the promotion. Lucas: Exactly. So what if the solution isn't to wait for an opening or to leave the company — but to take a lateral move that deliberately builds leadership muscle without requiring the title first? Luna: That sounds almost too good to be true. How does that actually work inside a real company? Lucas: Let me give you a concrete example. I talked to a project manager at a large mutual insurance company — let's call her Rachel. She was in the underwriting operations group, running standard process improvement projects. Solid work, but the manager above her had been in role for twelve years and wasn't going anywhere. No path to people leadership. Luna: Classic shelf scenario. Lucas: Right. So Rachel heard about a new cross-functional team being formed — a 'transformation office' — that was chartered to redesign the claims to underwriting handoff process. It was a lateral move: same pay grade, same title. But the scope was completely different. She'd be coordinating with VPs from three divisions, managing a budget of about two million dollars, and reporting to a director who reported to the COO. Luna: So the title didn't change, but the actual work became leadership work. Lucas: Exactly. Over eighteen months, Rachel ran that redesign. She facilitated weekly steering committee meetings with senior stakeholders. She managed a vendor contract. She presented quarterly updates to the COO. When she later applied for a director role at another company, she had concrete stories about leading teams — even though she never had a single direct report at the insurance company. Luna: So the key is finding roles that offer 'stealth leadership' — where you're responsible for outcomes and influencing people, not just executing tasks. Lucas: Yes. And I think there are three specific signals that a lateral move will actually build that muscle. First, the role involves managing a budget or a P&L — even a small one. Second, you have to coordinate across multiple functions or departments. Third, you have regular exposure to senior leaders who are making decisions based on your work. Luna: Let's unpack each of those. Budget responsibility — even if it's just a project budget — that's something you can put on a resume as 'managed $X million in transformation spend.' That's leadership language. Lucas: Right. And cross-functional coordination? That's the real differentiator. When you're the person who has to get underwriting, claims, and IT to agree on a timeline, you're doing the work of a senior manager. You're negotiating, prioritizing, resolving conflict — all without having authority over any of those people. Luna: And the senior exposure piece — Rachel presenting to the COO — that's huge because it gives you a platform to demonstrate executive presence. And it also means you have references who can speak to your strategic thinking, not just your operational reliability. Lucas: Exactly. Now, the tricky part is pitching this move to your current manager. If you're good in your role, they don't want to lose you. And if you say 'I want to move because I want to build leadership skills,' that can sound like 'your department isn't good enough for me.' Luna: So how do you frame it without burning bridges? Lucas: I think the best approach is to position it as a development opportunity that will make you more valuable to the company in the long run. You say something like, 'I want to stretch into a cross-functional role so I can bring a broader perspective back to our team in the future.' And you make it clear you're not leaving because you're unhappy — you're leaving because you want to grow. Luna: And you should also offer to help with the transition — train your replacement, document your processes. That reduces the friction for your manager. Lucas: Absolutely. The other risk is that some lateral moves look like they'll build leadership skills but actually just shuffle tasks. I've seen people move into a 'program manager' role that's really just scheduling meetings and taking notes. That's not stealth leadership — that's administrative support. Luna: So how do you spot the difference before you make the move? Lucas: Ask to see the role's charter or the team's operating model. Who makes decisions? Who owns the budget? Who presents to leadership? If the answers are vague, that's a red flag. Also talk to someone who's been in the role for a year and ask them what they actually spend their time on. Luna: That's smart. And once you're in the role, you have to be intentional about how you frame it on your resume and in interviews. A lot of people make the mistake of listing tasks instead of impact. Lucas: Right. So Rachel didn't write 'facilitated steering committee meetings.' She wrote 'led a cross-functional steering committee of 8 senior leaders to drive a $2M process redesign, resulting in a 15% reduction in claims cycle time.' That's leadership language. She used words like 'led,' 'drove,' 'delivered' — not 'supported,' 'assisted,' 'participated.' Luna: And she can also talk about how she influenced without authority. That's a huge topic in leadership interviews now. Hiring managers love hearing concrete examples of getting buy-in from stakeholders who didn't report to you. Lucas: Exactly. So the playbook is: identify a lateral role with budget, cross-functional scope, and senior exposure. Pitch it to your manager as a development move. Do the work intentionally, documenting your leadership impact. Then use that experience to leapfrog into a people leader role — either internally or externally. Luna: You know, this kind of practical, no-fluff career advice is exactly why we keep doing this show. And it's also why we deliberately don't run ads on it. Lucas: Yeah, we've talked about that before. We want the episodes to be clean — just the strategy, no interruptions. If you find value in that approach and want to support it, there's a simple way. It's buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. Luna: And we really mean that. No pressure, no perks. Just knowing that listeners appreciate the ad-free format keeps us going. Now, back to the strategy — one more thing I wanted to ask about. Lucas: Sure, what's that? Luna: What about the timeline? How long should someone stay in a stealth leadership role before they try to convert it into a promotion or use it to land a manager role elsewhere? Lucas: I think eighteen months is the sweet spot. That gives you enough time to deliver a meaningful result and cycle through a couple of quarters of stakeholder exposure. Less than a year and it can look like you didn't really own anything. More than two and you risk getting pigeonholed as the person who does that role, not the person who leads. Luna: So at the eighteen-month mark, you start having conversations about the next step — either inside the company or externally. Lucas: Exactly. And you should have those conversations before you're desperate. You want to be in a position where you can say, 'I've delivered these results, and now I'm ready for a role where I can lead a team.' If your current company can offer that, great. If not, you have a strong external story. Luna: One last thing — what if someone is in a very small company where there aren't these cross-functional transformation teams? How do they create a stealth leadership opportunity? Lucas: That's harder, but not impossible. You can volunteer to lead a company-wide initiative — like rolling out a new software tool, organizing a all-hands meeting, or creating a cross-departmental training program. Even if it's not in your job description, you can say 'I'd like to take the lead on this.' In a small company, that kind of initiative often gets noticed because the leadership is closer to the ground. Luna: So it's about creating the role, not just finding it. Lucas: Exactly. And that itself is a leadership move — identifying a gap and stepping up to fill it. If you do that successfully, you've already demonstrated the very skill you're trying to build. Luna: Alright, I think that's a solid playbook. Thanks, Lucas. Lucas: Thanks, Luna. And to everyone listening — if you're in a role where the ladder is blocked, look sideways before you look out the door. The leadership experience you need might be hiding in plain sight.