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Sober Talk SA - Richie-Road to Recovery · Sober Talk SA

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Welcome to Sober Talk. I'm Dennis and I'm an alcoholic.
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Soap dear. Thanks to Alcoholics Anonymous.
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If you or anyone you know is struggling with alcohol, please
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call Alcoholics Anonymous on 1300 double 22222.
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I'll visit their website ata.org dot AU.
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I'll just run through the preamble of Alcoholics
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Anonymous. Alcoholics Anonymous is a
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fellowship of people who share the experience, strengthen hope
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with each other that they may solve their common problems, and
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help with us to recover from alcoholism.
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The only requirement for membership is the desire to stop
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drinking and no dues of fees. Fair membership.
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We are self supporting through our own contributions.
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He is not alive with any sect, denomination, politics,
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organization or institution, does not wish to engage in any
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controversy, either endorses or oppose any causes.
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Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other Alcoholics
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are chief sobriety. Hello everybody.
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My name's Richie. I'm an alcoholic.
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I was, I was kind of stumped on what to share this evening.
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And, and every time I'm, I'm I'm stuck for something to share, I
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always go back to the same passage in in the book.
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It's, it's in the family afterwards, you know, and, and
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as I was looking at it today, I was realizing how the language
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in this book used to trigger me, used when I say trigger on
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infuriate and look, I come into a A and I'd, I'd love to be able
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to say I was an atheist, but I wasn't, I was a militant
1:49
atheist. I was the guy with the anonymous
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Facebook comment, you know, when anybody was talking about their
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fate, I'd go out of my way to shit all over it, you know, and,
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and when I came into a AI come in sideways, backwards and
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upside down, I was in a really, really bad way.
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And, and I just, I just remember, I remember not really
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listening to anything like my first meeting.
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I just remember sitting there absolutely bamboozled as to
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ending up on a chair on a Saturday evening on a rainy,
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dark night in a church hall, thinking to myself, like, how
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the hell did I end up here? I didn't look at the steps.
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I, I didn't know what a meeting was.
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I didn't know anything about a, A, so I didn't know where to
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look. I didn't know how to listen.
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I didn't, I didn't know anything about alcoholism.
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I didn't know anything about myself.
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And, and I left that meeting and I said to my wife, I'm, I'm, I'm
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never going back. And, and as I'm having this
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conversation with her, you know, my, my, my last drink was the,
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the 6th of the 7th, 7th day. It was my son's 5th birthday.
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I should have been at home with him and my family celebrating,
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but I went on the benders of all benders crashed my car, left the
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scene of the crime, caused mayhem to the runner from the
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police, got into a fight with people.
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There was a helicopter in the air.
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It was, it was pretty rough. It was a pretty rough night and
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I got dragged in to the to the cell processed and my wife had
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to come and get me and she turns up with the two kids, you know,
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and all this time, like I'm sitting in the cell, I'm going
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So what, you know, this is, this is easy, you know, and I didn't
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once think of of the people who I was hoarding.
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I didn't, I didn't think of them at all because I was extremely
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selfish, self-centered, egotistical.
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That's probably manic as well. And yes, I'm like when my wife
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turns up with the two kids and we're talking about rock
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bottoms, you know? And yeah, I still didn't think
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anything was wrong. I still didn't think like a
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toilet was, you know, this is just a hiccup.
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It's just a blip. And here, so they took me out of
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the cell so my wife could say, yeah, that's him, so me off.
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But she said to the policeman and she said to the policeman,
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look, I'm not taking them home drunk, you know?
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And so they kept me in to dry out.
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And as the cop was taking me back to the cell, the policeman
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on the front desk, as I as I went out of eyesight, I was
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still within air shock. And he said to her, he said, are
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you safe And even saying that now?
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Yeah. Like I'd sit in a a meetings and
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I would talk about, you know, you know, I never raised a hand
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to my wife. I never raised a hand to my
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kids. Like I used to hide behind all
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of that thinking, you know, I wasn't that bad and like that
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really like it just drove me to my knees and I didn't ask for
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help again. I'm at this time, I'm an
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atheist, you know, like even in like even in the trench, you
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know, like there's an old saying, you know, there's
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there's no atheists and foxholes, you know, but even
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even in even at that, I didn't even tinker reaching out, didn't
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ask for help from anybody. I just remember just being
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miserable because I had a speaker say once that, you know,
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I never come into a A because my drinking was affecting other
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people. I came into a A because my
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drinking started affecting me. And that's basically it.
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You know, I, I came to a A because my drinking had started
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to affect me. So I go back home after that
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meeting on the Saturday night and at corner like gardens it
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was in and 8 1/2 years ago. And I come back from the meeting
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and I said to Laura, I said, look, listen, I'm not going back
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to a A and I'm finished with that, you know, And she looks
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over at the door and next to the door there's like all these bags
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have been packed and she had packed the bags on Asher's
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birthday while I was out drinking.
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And when I rang you all right there mate?
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And when I rang her from the police station, she was halfway
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through right in the note. I was going to come home to an
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empty house and it so she's right.
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And when I rang her from the police station, she crumbled it
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up, threw her in the fire. And she says this has to be it.
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This has to be his last drink. So because there was loads of
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last drinks and, and it was the Saturday morning, I said, look,
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I need a drink. Like I, I, I, I, sorry, not the
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Saturday morning. It was the Saturday, the Sunday
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morning. And I was like, I need a drink.
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And she couldn't wrap her head around the fact that with the
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bags packed on the door with me having to go to court, I wasn't,
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I wasn't an Australian citizen at the time.
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So if I got found guilty, I was going to get deported after
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doing a few years in jail and, and lose everything.
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And, and I couldn't wrap my head around it either because I
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thought, I thought I could give up drink any time I wanted.
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Like I genuinely believed that as I was drinking, I always used
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to think, sure, something bad was to happen.
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I just stop. And if I got sick, I'd stop.
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Or, you know, this, people say that there's the denial side of
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alcoholism. And I was never in denial.
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I always knew I had a drinking problem.
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I always knew I was an alcoholic, but I was deluded
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because I taught with sufficient reason, I, I, I would have
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stopped. But I couldn't stop.
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So I came to a A and then I came to my second meeting, which was
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England Alg struggling like really, really bad.
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So obviously I'm going through the DTS.
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I'm sick because because I just went cold Turkey.
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And then a man at that meeting says, look, I think you should
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head down to the Thursday night meeting on down on hacking.
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So I went down to Thursday meeting.
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I'm hacking. So that's how I got into a a
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right? And now that I'm in a A and I
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don't want any help. Don't want to talk to anybody.
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Leave me alone. I'll just sit down and I'll, you
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know, I listen to what you have to say.
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And then I go home. And this is the time now when
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I'm starting to look around, you know, I'm reading the pamphlets,
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I'm looking at the steps on the wall.
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And now the God thing is starting to stick its head out.
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I'm like, oh, here we go. And then people would share
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about their faith. And I would get so angry, like,
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angry to my boots. I would get so angry I would
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forget I was an alcoholic in an AI meeting.
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I would be you already ate it because they're talking about
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their faith and how God got them sober.
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And then I'd be asked to share and I'd mumble me name and I'd
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mumble I was an alcoholic. And then I'd say like I'd ask a
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question in me share. I'd say, so if let me get this
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right, if I stay sober, it's God's job.
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But if I go out and get drunk, it's my fault, right?
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And I would have people come up to me and they're saying,
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listen, you really need this spiritual experience.
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You really need this. And I was, I'd be like, you
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better get away from me. I'm going to rearrange your
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face. Like I was extremely angry.
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And and I can't talk about untreated alcoholism.
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I had untreated resentment, hatred, bitterness.
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I was, I was, I was a terror, A terror.
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And I did that for nine months, nine months going crazy.
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And then I asked a guy to help me because it was suggested to
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me. Someone said, look, listen,
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you're going to, you're going to, you're going to kill
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somebody if you don't get help, like real help.
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And so I got asked this guy to help me and a beautiful man,
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beautiful. And he brings me into his house.
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And it was the first, it was the first time an A, A member showed
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me the power of a A because I go into his house and I knew his
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story. I knew how rough his life was.
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The hatred he had for I won't tell a story, but the, the, the,
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the hatred he had for women and boy, the abuse he went through,
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all that kind of stuff. And I was like, I was on his
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level. I was like, yeah, this guy gets
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me. He's got the same level of hate
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that I've got, you know, And I'm sitting in his kitchen and he
10:30
goes, you want a cup of tea? I said, yeah, I'll have a cup of
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tea. And he goes, 1 sugar.
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Yeah, 1 sugar. He makes me a cup of tea.
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And he sticks his head around the corner and he says to his
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wife, he goes Claire. He goes, Claire, love.
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Would you like a cup of tea? And it just hit me like a brick.
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I was like, I've never spoken to anybody in my life.
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I've known my wife for 15 years at this stage.
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I'd never spoken to her like that.
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Never. Me kids.
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Well, get into me kids in a minute.
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But. And I was just like, that's what
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I want. I want that.
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I want, I want that. That's what I want.
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So we get down, open the book, get into the doctor's opinion
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that he asked me to read the week before, which I hadn't
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read. And so we get into him, we're
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reading the doctor's opinion, we're going through all this and
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he starts talking about alcoholism, what it is, all that
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kind of stuff. And it's just washing over me,
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right? Like me egos off the charts.
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Like it's ridiculous. I'm not listening to any of it.
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You know, give me a blatant break, Willy.
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You know all this. I wouldn't listen.
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I didn't. I wasn't interested in Bill
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story. I wasn't interested in any of
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that. I was like, how are you going to
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help me stop, like stop fantasizing over drinking, you
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know, because I would romanticize my drinking.
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Within nine months, I had totally forgotten my last drink
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and all I'm thinking about is cook grass and drinking a Corona
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or hanging out with me mates, you know, or going into the pool
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when you're on holidays and you see that the cool beer dripping
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down the side of the glass like this is what I'm thinking.
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I had totally forgotten about the mayhem and murder I'd cost,
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totally forgotten about it. And I'm romanticizing the
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fantasizing over alcohol and I'm telling them like I need to stop
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thinking like this. You know, it's it's it's killing
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me. It's wrecking me head because
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every time I mention it to someone, they're looking at me
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going, what are you thinking of drinking?
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You get crazy, you know. And so we get to the torch step
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prayer, and he goes, right? And he opens the book.
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We go over to his window sill. His wife had gone to the cinema
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because apparently this was a really important thing that we
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had to do in private. And we walk over to the window
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sill. The sun is shining in.
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And he goes, right. We're going to get on our knees.
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We're going to say this prayer. And I went, I'm not the only,
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not the only. And he goes, Are you sure?
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I went, Yeah. He just closed the book.
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We went back to his table. We sat down, had another cup of
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tea. I left, came back the following
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week with me. Step 4 all written out.
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Let's go. Ready to rock'n'roll.
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Sat down, put it all down in front of them.
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And he goes, I'm not taking this step four.
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You're going to have to leave. I said what?
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He goes, yeah. I can't take it to the steps,
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mate. Here you have to do step three.
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If you can't do step three, I can't take it to the steps.
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And then he said something to me which was so profound and so
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true that I can't. He goes to me.
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I don't want you coming back to this house drunk after you
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telling me your step. I was like, I'm not going to
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drink, what are you talking about?
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And he was convinced I was going to drink.
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So anyway, I left his house. It was a Wednesday night.
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I was riding an electric bike and he lived in Christie's
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Beach. And I rode and I rode the boy
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from Christie's Beach to no longer train station, went home
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to Halekov and went to a meeting the following night.
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And in that meeting I told everybody I'd just done step 45.
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I'm now on six and seven. Right till mad, I was absolutely
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batshit crazy and I then decided to sponsor myself to the rest of
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the steps right and, and I landed my dream job.
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I got this job at a massive American sports company and they
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flew me all over the world. And I was at the airport and I
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bumped into a load of friends and I was on my way to, I think
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it was South Korea or something. And they were going to a shot.
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They were going to a books party that we, yeah, books party in,
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in, in Melbourne. And they were talking about, you
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know, they're all going to, they have to, they have all the coke
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sorted for when they get over there.
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They're all booked into the strippers.
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They're going to have this crazy time over there.
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It's going to be phenomenal. And I remember walking away from
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that group to my dream job. My wife was back, me kids are
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back, the bags are unpacked. I'm doing OK.
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I haven't had a drink in, you know, almost a year.
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And I remember walking to the gate with me head down, gone.
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My life is shit, you know. And I got on that plane.
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I went and did the job. When the job was over, I was
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sitting in the hotel, massive big 5 star hotel.
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I'm sitting there and I'm looking into the bar And I went,
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really, I'll only drink when I travel.
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I won't tell anybody. I won't tell anybody I'm
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drinking. I'll still go to a A and I'll
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only drink when I travel. So I'll pull my phone out and I
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look at all the things I have on right, something like 9 trips.
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It's like, yeah, this is great, this is great.
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I've been in a A almost 99 likely and 9 China.
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So yeah. So 918.
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So this is 18 months, 18 months of between 4:00 and 5:00
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meetings a week, an attempt at the steps with a sponsor
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sponsoring myself, service positions, the Hola, the Hola,
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the Hola, and I'm sitting in a hotel looking in the bar gone,
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right? This is me plan, right?
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You would think I would know about the allergy.
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You think I would know about the obsession of the mind?
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You think I would know some kind of knowledge around the whole
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thing that a, a people believe in.
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And I hadn't. I hadn't got a clue.
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Not a clue. And for whatever reason, right?
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Remember, I'm a militant atheist.
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You were. You mentioned God to me.
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You're knocked off the list. I'm not shaking your hand at the
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next meeting. Good luck, God.
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Job, get a grip. You know, right, I'm like,
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right, Grant? And for whatever reason, I
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picked up the phone and I rang him and I said, I'm going to
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drink. And he goes, Wendy, you land.
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I said, I get in on Tuesday. He says, Roy come straight from
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the airport to my house. I'm like, OK, he's a 44 Walker.
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The chances of him being at home, the chances of him
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answering that phone, you know, all these coincidences, right?
16:32
So I go down to his house, we sit down and the first thing he
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says to me is Roy, can on your knees say that prayer?
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I just got on my knees and I said the prayer.
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That was it. That was it.
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Because when I read this book, the language in the book would
16:45
do my head in. I couldn't see the message that
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the book was trying to tell me because I didn't like the way it
16:53
was written. You'd come up to me after
16:56
telling my story, and you would have something to offer me in my
17:00
sobriety journey. And because you mentioned
17:04
Buddhism, you were a Jew, you're a Muslim, you're a Christian,
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and you mentioned your faith. I didn't want to know.
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I didn't want to know. So my for spiritual advancement
17:16
in a a was that I started to listen to people of faith and I
17:22
stopped getting angry. The anger had gone.
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It gone. And I was thinking to myself, I
17:29
was like, what happened there, you know?
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And then all of a sudden I'm thinking, holy shit, this
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obsession has gone, too. I don't fantasize about alcohol.
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I don't romanticize it. I don't demonize it.
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I have an 18 year old daughter who and her mates, they have a
17:42
few drinks, they go out. She's going to live her own
17:45
life. I don't tell her there's no
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drink in the house. It has zero power over me.
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Zero. Yeah, I remember I used to have
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to plan going to parties. I used to have an exit plan.
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I used to strategize how I would go in and get out.
18:00
Now I just go. I go wherever I want.
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When I want 0 power, the obsession is gone.
18:07
But see if I take a break from a a see if I take a break from the
18:11
meditation, I'm like half assed attempt attempt a prayer.
18:15
See, when I stop holding myself accountable and keeping, keeping
18:18
a journal, right, when I stop doing all that stuff, then I
18:22
start to fantasize about drinking starts looking OK for
18:26
me because unfortunately for me, or probably fortunately, I'm an
18:30
alcoholic, a real, real alcoholic.
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What they say in the book, you know, and the more sober you get
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and the more a a you do and the more you share and the more you
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speak, you start to remember stuff in your drinking.
18:46
Like I'll talk about things that happened to me in my past in my
18:49
drinking, right? But I only can speak of them and
18:53
tell you how I felt at the time is because I'm eight years sober
18:56
and I've been looking back on my past over 8 years.
19:00
If you'd have asked me on my first day in AAI wouldn't have
19:04
been able to tell you anything because I wouldn't have been
19:06
able to remember anything, right?
19:08
So I'll just read a little bit out of this book and I'll and
19:11
it'll lead me into spirituality for me, my journey in
19:16
spirituality, right? I was an altar boy Catholic,
19:20
right? The mother was convinced there
19:22
was going to be a priest, right? When I tell you my hatred for
19:27
the Catholic Church and all forms of religion, right, Big
19:32
part of my story, a massive part of my story is the trauma.
19:36
I court the trauma I got in the military.
19:41
I, I ran away, a friend of mine was murdered and I, I ran away
19:44
to a thing called the French Foreign Legion, right?
19:46
And I ran away to that. And it's an elite unit in the
19:49
French army. And it was pre 911.
19:51
So all of our work was done in the Balkan states, in Kosovo,
19:54
Sarajevo in 99, Central Africa, Brazzaville in 98, Ivory Coast
20:00
in 99. And the things I've seen there
20:03
were horrific. Forget the things we did.
20:06
I'm talking about the things we've seen.
20:08
And I won't get into them with you, right?
20:10
But some of it involved religious symbols, right?
20:13
Churches being born with people in them, standing in a mass
20:16
grave while UN people are sorting out the bits and bobs
20:20
and finding crucifixes on things like that.
20:23
And driving me further and further and further and further
20:26
away from God, as you may understand him.
20:29
But the God that I saw in my head, I was being driven away.
20:33
And I mean aggressively, right, we talked about resentment and
20:38
all that kind of stuff. Like I was all in on the hatred
20:41
of any form of religion. And I took that out on the
20:43
people of faith, right? So I just want you to know that
20:47
we're more hatred of any form of spirituality or faith is
20:52
cemented. It's cemented there.
20:54
So then I come into a A and they went, you won't get sober unless
20:57
you find God. Like, hang on a minute, mate.
21:00
I'm going to burn this place to the ground, right, right.
21:03
And then you open the book and you're met with stuff like this,
21:07
right? So I grew up in a house where my
21:10
mother was the head of the house, right?
21:12
Me father had left. So I hated all forms of men,
21:16
masculinity and a warped sense of what a man was, what
21:20
masculinity was. My mother, I blamed her for
21:23
letting my dad go. So I hated women, right?
21:26
And it just comes to the fact that I just hated everybody,
21:30
right, Including myself. So it says here, right, I'm
21:33
going to read this, right? This.
21:36
The head of the house ought to remember that he is mainly to
21:40
blame for what befell his home, right?
21:43
And I'd be like, yeah, but what are the girls reading this?
21:45
Do you know what I mean? How many sponsors are like, just
21:48
read it like, yeah, but you know what?
21:50
I'm just saying, you know, it's a bit, you know, just keep
21:54
reading it, right? So he goes.
21:56
He can scarcely square the account in a lifetime.
22:01
And now I wouldn't have got past that first line.
22:04
I wouldn't have. I just would have closed the
22:06
book. And now I'm getting to the
22:07
second line that's saying it's going to take me an entire
22:10
lifetime to barely make up for the damage I did.
22:14
That's pretty heavy, you know? But he must see the danger of
22:18
over concentration. Forget that one and we'll jump
22:21
to the next paragraph, right? Since the home has suffered more
22:25
than anything else, it is well that man exert himself there.
22:30
He is not likely to get far in any direction if he fails to
22:34
show unselfishness and love under his own roof.
22:38
I would come to meetings, go home, kick the dog, shout with
22:42
the kids. They did say the dinner was
22:44
shit. You know, I'd be great in
22:47
meetings, but I was an asshole at home.
22:49
I was an asshole at home and I couldn't figure out why because
22:54
I'm doing the steps. I have a service position, I'm
22:57
doing service. I'm going into the prisons, I'm
22:59
going to rehabs, I'm doing all this kind of stuff.
23:03
But I'm still, I don't know, there's something, there's
23:07
something around love that really that I couldn't.
23:10
It was a barrier I couldn't break like I couldn't break.
23:14
I was married. I had two kids.
23:16
And I was pushing them so far away because I would isolate
23:20
when I drank. Yeah.
23:22
And when I was saying earlier about, you know, we look back on
23:26
our drink and then we can see the damage we were creating.
23:29
But it's only because I'm sober, such a, because I'm sober eight
23:32
years and I look back and one of the things that that my mind and
23:36
my eyes were open to was, and this is really important about
23:41
spirituality, right? And fate and belief, right?
23:45
I refused to accept the fact that I needed some form of a
23:50
psychic change in my mind. I needed to, to, to really lean
23:56
into a spiritual life in order to get recovery, not sobriety.
24:02
And I want sobriety. I want recovery.
24:04
I want that obsession of the mind done.
24:07
I want to be able to do what I want.
24:09
I want to be a free man, right? That's what I want.
24:13
But I can't have it if I hate myself.
24:16
I can't have it if I'm afraid to walk a spiritual path.
24:21
So my son would come into the bedroom and remember, this is me
24:26
refusing to believe in something, right?
24:29
You know you believe in God, right?
24:30
Yeah. Do you believe in Santa Claus
24:31
and the tooth fairy? That's how I used to think,
24:34
right? That's how I used to think.
24:36
My son would come into the bedroom while I was still
24:38
drinking, and if Laura woke up, he would get into the bed.
24:42
But if I woke up, he'd go back to his bedroom.
24:45
He would rather sleep with the boogeyman than get into bed with
24:50
his own dad, right? So he believes in the boogeyman.
24:54
He believes in the Sandman that lives under his bed, right?
24:57
The devils and the ghosts. And he would rather go back
25:00
there than come with me. He was safer with them than he
25:03
was with me. Now I can't change how he feels
25:08
about me by going to the gym, signing up to a shrink, walking
25:12
out, running an ultra marathon. Because I did all that.
25:15
I did all of it. I wouldn't go to see a
25:18
psychiatrist. I wouldn't go to therapy.
25:21
I was leaning into this 12 steps.
25:23
So I got to get the 12 steps. I got to get the 12 steps.
25:26
I got to 12 steps and I couldn't understand why I wasn't having
25:29
this spiritual experience. Even though step 9 was an
25:33
amazing experience for me, even though step 12 and and being of
25:37
service to others was an amazing experience for me, I wasn't
25:40
having this spiritual experience, right.
25:44
And I knew that because if something great happened,
25:49
something big, I lost my wife, I lost the child, I lost the leg,
25:54
whatever, I knew I would drink. When I was being honest with
25:58
myself lying in bed, I knew there was something big
26:02
happened. I'd probably drink.
26:04
So I didn't have recovery. I was just sober.
26:07
I was 6 1/2, seven years sober. That's all I was.
26:11
And I needed to come to a A meetings because if I didn't
26:14
come to a A meetings, I probably would have drank.
26:17
I had no defense A A was my defence.
26:20
I didn't understand that it was the steps that set you free, but
26:24
it only would set you free if you were to allow yourself to
26:27
contemplate or to maybe perhaps allow yourself to believe in
26:34
something bigger than yourself. So over child was taken.
26:37
I wouldn't be blaming God and going for a drink.
26:40
I'd be able to more wouldn't be able to ask for help, say I'm
26:44
struggling, reach out to other a A members and two, it's that's
26:49
just the way it is, you know, so I wanted that.
26:53
That's what I wanted. So how do I go about it?
26:56
So I go up to build a house and I'm trying to learn how to
26:58
meditate. You know, I meet this dude up
27:01
there and he's a plateau actors. I said to him, I can't get this
27:04
blade meditation thing, you know, because I'm all in right,
27:08
meditation. My meditation looks like this,
27:11
by the way, every morning I sit down in front of the TVI pick up
27:15
the remote control, right? And instead of turning it on, I
27:20
put the remote control down and I just relax for three minutes.
27:23
That's it. That's my meditation, right?
27:27
But when I forced wanted to meditate, Oh yeah, I needed the
27:30
lowest position. I needed to meditate.
27:32
I needed to be able to levitate. I needed to do ice baths,
27:36
saunas, red light therapy. I needed to do the whole lot
27:40
right. I'm thinking of shaving me head.
27:43
I ring me sponsor up because I I try and yeah, so I'm in the
27:48
fight game and I trained professional fighters and I
27:51
remember ringing me sponsor saying the the sport, I mean is
27:55
too aggressive. I think I'm thinking of giving
27:57
that up. And I'm going to shave me head
28:00
and I'm going to get into this Buddhism thing and then a bit of
28:02
stoicism and all this. And I was like leaning into all
28:05
this, you know, and he's looking at me going, are you mad?
28:08
You know, I was like, no, what are you, what are you talking
28:11
about? And he's like he goes, you're in
28:13
the perfect position to help other men and young boys and
28:19
young girls who are just like you.
28:22
Now Dad, Mum is too busy walking.
28:25
They come to the boxing gym and now they meet you.
28:28
You can introduce them to spirituality, you can introduce
28:32
them to love, tolerance, understanding love.
28:37
You can introduce them to what masculinity is truly like.
28:42
You can introduce them and to, to, to love.
28:45
So, so they'll be able to love themselves.
28:48
You'll be able to help them because the boxing gym is full
28:52
of people like me, the broken me.
28:55
And he goes, that's what, and he's, he's super religious.
28:57
I mean, there you go. Go figure.
28:59
And he's like, that's what God put you on the earth for.
29:02
Now before, if anyone said that to me, I would lose my mind.
29:06
And now because all these barriers are standing to break
29:09
down and I'm seeking spiritual people, I'm seeking people of
29:14
faith. I want to spend time with these
29:16
people. I want to understand how they
29:17
think, how they feel. And he goes, that's what God put
29:21
you on the earth for. I was like, OK, I can, I can
29:24
accept that. So I keep doing that.
29:26
I go back to Buddha House and told me this tattoo artist and
29:29
I'm saying, man, I can't get this meditation thing.
29:31
And he goes, Richie, those monks in the pile on the side of a
29:35
mountain in red robes doing this 25 years and they don't have it
29:39
either. I was like, oh, he goes, yeah,
29:41
you're not going to get it. And bleeding.
29:42
Three months, mate. Oh, OK.
29:44
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because do you know what I mean?
29:46
Because everything I did, I was doing it wrong.
29:48
Step 1, I did that wrong. Step 2, I did it wrong.
29:51
Step three, I did it wrong. Step 9, I did it wrong.
29:54
Step three, I didn't even do it, you know, but do you know what
29:57
I'm saying? Like everything I did was wrong.
30:00
Everything I got married, I did that wrong.
30:02
I'm a dad. I did that wrong.
30:03
I came to a a I'm doing that wrong.
30:06
I have recovery. I'm fucking doing that wrong.
30:09
You know, I'm hearing, I meditate and going, I'll get
30:11
this, you know, you never got anything in your life.
30:14
How are you going to get meditation?
30:16
So my meditation just looks, it's very, very simple, you
30:20
know, it's a tiny little bit of quiet in the morning and a bit
30:24
of visualization, but trying to visualize being a good dad, good
30:28
husband, a good friend, a brother.
30:31
And what does that look like? Like, what does it look like?
30:34
You know, because for me, opening the door for someone
30:36
isn't enough. I need to go and buy home
30:39
clothes for the homeless. So they need to, you know what I
30:42
mean? I need to buy charity boxes and
30:44
take photographs and put them on Instagram to say, hey, look how
30:46
charitable I am, you know? And that's the beauty of A, A,
30:50
The beauty of A, A, for someone like me is the second A, the
30:54
anonymity B, If you're going to be of service, if you're going
30:58
to be good to people, you have to do it.
31:00
And no one can know. I'm like, then what's the point
31:02
in doing it? And what's the point in doing
31:05
any of this of I can't tell people, you know, you know, and
31:10
again, you know, I just how long have we got left?
31:14
Oh, yeah. So again, like, you know, I
31:17
guess I don't know if I'm, I don't know if I've helped
31:21
anybody here who's not spiritual.
31:25
And I was thinking of like, I'd love to be able to show you a
31:27
road map. I'd love to be able to hold your
31:30
hand and say, come at me, walk up to the corner here and I'm
31:33
going to show you how to be spiritual.
31:35
Look, I don't know, I just arrived, you know what I mean?
31:40
And the way I see it is that I look at my spirituality like a
31:45
footpath and it's overgrown, but next to it there's another part
31:50
and it's all flat. It's made of tarmac, Adam.
31:52
It's beautifully lined and it's flat and it's easy to walk on.
31:56
If you wanted to ride a bike on, it'd be perfect.
31:59
It's flat, no hills, no nothing. But that's the road I've been on
32:02
my whole life. The easy part, you know?
32:06
And there's nothing there but hatred and anger and
32:10
disappointment and shame and disgust, because that's where I
32:15
end up. But it's so easy to walk that
32:18
path. It's so easy to just go for a
32:20
drink. It's so easy to tell people that
32:22
you love to leave me alone. It's so easy to tell people who
32:25
irritate you to shut up. So easy to start arguments.
32:30
Arguments are great. They're great.
32:33
They're an equalizer. I don't have to listen to your
32:35
problems. I don't have to tell you mine.
32:38
I don't need to. I don't need to apologize to you
32:41
if I argue with you. But it's so much more difficult
32:45
on this spiritual part that's full of rocks.
32:48
You can roll an ankle. It's overgrown.
32:51
No one's really walked it. It's I don't know where I'm
32:54
going on it, you know? But the thing about that part
32:57
and what makes it so difficult is that I know in my head what
33:01
an idea of spirituality is like. I know if you were to say like
33:05
which you're going to create your own religion, I want you to
33:07
write 10 commandments. They'd probably look something
33:10
like the ones in the Bible, you know, like my 10 commandments
33:15
aren't going to be commandment #1 you can cheat on your wife
33:17
and if you don't get caught, it's fine.
33:18
You know what I mean? If someone steals from you,
33:21
follow them home and beat the shit out of them.
33:24
No, no, spirituality is living a hard life.
33:29
And for a normal person like my wife, a normal person like most
33:33
people that we know that live out in the world, those things
33:37
are easy for them. But for me, it's extremely
33:40
difficult, extremely difficult to be a good person.
33:43
I don't know why. I don't know why, but that's
33:46
just the way it is for me. I have to do a, a meetings,
33:51
service, work, sponsor people, be sponsored, like tons of a, A
33:57
just to be normal, Just to be normal.
34:00
I listen to the podcasts, right, where guys talk about, you know,
34:05
stuff that's similar to the 12 steps, you know, and you're
34:09
listening to him talking. Oh, yeah, we do all that.
34:12
Yeah, yeah. He journals, he gets meditates,
34:14
he helps other people. Yeah.
34:15
This dude, he does exactly what the 12 steps is.
34:17
He does what I do. Yeah.
34:19
He's a multi millionaire or she's an elite sports person or
34:24
an Olympian. And I'm like, oh, I just do all
34:26
that so I I can be a decent husband and a half good dad.
34:32
Yeah, yeah. That's what that's why I need
34:35
spirituality. That's why I need to do this
34:39
work, because if I don't, if I don't, I only hurt the people
34:44
that love me. And that's a massive spiritual
34:47
thing right there. When I said the people that love
34:51
me because I would say I love you, I love my kids, I would
34:57
never say the people that love me because I never thought I was
35:01
lovable ever. Ever.
35:03
I was so filled with rage and hate.
35:07
I couldn't see past any of that, you know?
35:11
And now I live a wonderful, mediocre, normal life.
35:17
It's very normal. It's slow, it's relaxed.
35:21
I do my best not to anger quickly.
35:24
I do my best to stay calm as much as I can because I can lose
35:29
it so quickly, so quickly. You know, I'll finish on this,
35:33
right? My program sits here right
35:38
behind the back of my head. And when something happens, the
35:41
words are already out my mouth before the program can come in,
35:44
you know? And I find myself apologizing a
35:47
lot, you know? And I remember saying to Glenn,
35:49
I was like, when do I stop apologizing?
35:51
What do I have to keep apologizing to people?
35:53
And he says, as soon as you stop being a Dick, you know, you
35:58
know, but I went and I got help. I went and I got help.
36:01
I went to a psychiatrist. I went into therapy.
36:05
I started looking after myself. And the best thing about a A,
36:10
when we're out there doing service and we're talking to
36:13
prison wardens and doctors and we're in hospitals and we're
36:16
talking, I always say this to them, right?
36:19
The best thing A A gave me, right?
36:22
Those 12 steps gave me, it gave me an introduction to a
36:27
spiritual life that allows me to put other people forced.
36:33
And when I go to therapy or I go to a psychiatrist, or I go to me
36:38
GP, or I go to a lawyer or I'm talking to a cop, I can be
36:42
honest with them. I can be truthful with them.
36:45
I would go to psychiatrists and I'd lie through me teeth.
36:48
How can they help me if they don't know about me?
36:51
I go to the doctor and they'll be prescribing me medications
36:55
that's meant to work. Or how can it work when they
36:57
think I'm drinking 2 beers a week, 2 beers a week, drinking 2
37:01
beers before 4:30 in the morning.
37:03
You know, so the best thing a a has ever given me, given me was
37:08
an introduction to a power greater than myself.
37:11
Call it what you want, the universe, God, Buddha, Jehovah,
37:17
whoever. What right?
37:18
But for me, for me, this militant atheist who moved into
37:23
atheism and now is agnostic, for me, it's just this little
37:28
crooked path that's really difficult to navigate.
37:32
But I know if I'm on it, then the people around me, they get
37:36
the benefits of that. I came to a A because I was
37:39
afraid my, my wife was going to leave me, right?
37:42
I stayed because it introduced me to me.
37:45
And I'm not that bad. I'm not.
37:48
I'm a lovable guy, you know? I'm.
37:51
I'm present. I'm reliable.
37:54
I will love you. I'll respect you.
37:57
I'll honor you. I won't steal from you.
37:59
Well, I'm wait. All right?
38:02
If they're lollies, I'll steal your lollies, all right?
38:05
I will. I'll be there for you.
38:07
I'll help you if I can, you know, And that's something I
38:10
never was. Never, ever.
38:12
Ever. Ever.
38:13
Ever. And yeah, if you're new or
38:16
you're not new, but you're struggling with the spiritual
38:18
side of things. I get it.
38:20
Like I truly, truly do. But yeah, just take your eye off
38:23
the God thing for a minute and just look down at your feet, see
38:27
where you are now. And then just take one step on
38:31
the crooked path of spirituality.
38:32
Just one little step, and just say, I'll give this a go, you
38:36
know, because spirituality and faith, just like grief, are very
38:42
personal to us. It's very individual to the
38:45
individual. That's what I found.
38:47
Now I found out that I can't have the same faith as you.
38:51
I can't have the same belief as you.
38:53
My idea of God is not the same as yours.
38:56
It's very personal to me. It's unique to me.
39:00
And understanding that was a was a relief, you know, that I can
39:06
walk this path on my own. I don't have to walk anyone
39:11
else's path, you know? So, yeah.
39:13
So if you're fantastic, you know, So thanks for asking, Liz.
39:17
A A has more than two million recovering Alcoholics throughout
39:21
the world. In Australia there are about
39:24
18,000 members. They're made in over 2000 local
39:29
meetings spread around the country.
39:32
Meetings range in size from a handful in some areas to
39:37
hundreds or more in larger communities.
39:40
And once again, if anyone you know is stubborn with alcohol
39:44
issues, please call Alcoholics Announcing 1300 Double 00000 or
39:50
visit their website on aa.org dot AU.