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The police cold case unit that's paranoid about podcasts · The Front

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  Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Christinamiot.
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  Speaker 1: It's Monday, June two, twenty twenty five. There are fears
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  Speaker 1: China could launch an invasion of Taiwan, triggering a global conflict.
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  Speaker 1: Cooperation on security and military exercises between Australia and the
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  Speaker 1: United States has been bumped up in anticipation of such
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  Speaker 1: an event. The Coalition says it's open to striking a
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  Speaker 1: deal with the government on its proposed superannuation tax, but
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  Speaker 1: only if Treasurer Jim Chalmers drops Labour's tax on unrealized
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  Speaker 1: capital gains. That exclusive story is live right now at
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  Speaker 1: the Australian dot com dot au. The New South Wales
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  Speaker 1: police unit tasked with solving cold case murders won't share
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  Speaker 1: crucial documents and information with victims families and it's all
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  Speaker 1: because of a podcast by The Australian that exposed a murderer.
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  Speaker 1: Today why police are gun shy about podcast investigations After
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  Speaker 1: the global success of The Teacher's pet In twenty twenty one,
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  Speaker 1: Kelly Slater Reagan spoke on the phone with Detective Inspector
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  Speaker 1: Nigel Warren, the boss of the New South Wales Police
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  Speaker 1: Unsolved Homicide Unit. Kelly is herself a former cop, but
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  Speaker 1: this wasn't a chinwag about her time in the force. Nope.
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  Speaker 1: Kelly had questions about the status of the investigation into
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  Speaker 1: the murder of her second cousin, the notorious gangster Johnny Reagan,
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  Speaker 1: who was assassinated in a Merrickville backstreet in nineteen seventy four.
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  Speaker 1: The crime has gone unsolved for more than half a
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  Speaker 1: century and it is investigated in the Australian's newest podcast series,
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  Speaker 1: The Gangster's Ghost. Kelly was on a quest to uncover
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  Speaker 1: evidence that might finally unmask the three or four shooters
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  Speaker 1: who pulled the trigger on that September day in nineteen
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  Speaker 1: seventy four, and the homicide file, held tightly by the
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  Speaker 1: cold case unit within the New South Wales Police Force,
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  Speaker 1: was a crucial piece of the puzzle.
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  Speaker 2: And then he said, oh, that we probably wouldn't get
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  Speaker 2: a homicide file because it's seemed to still be an
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  Speaker 2: active case. And he said, like they're never suspended, they're
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  Speaker 2: just sitting there waiting for more information.
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  Speaker 1: It was a blow for Kelly, who, like many members
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  Speaker 1: of his family, has been haunted by Johnny Reagan's criminal reputation.
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  Speaker 1: They want to know once and for all if it's deserved.
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  Speaker 2: And I said, oh, so, when was the review done.
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  Speaker 2: And he said, well, we did an investigation into the
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  Speaker 2: death of two thousand and four, and then in twenty
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  Speaker 2: sixteen the matters are reviewed again and they plan on
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  Speaker 2: reviewing them every five to ten years. And I said, well, no,
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  Speaker 2: nobody from my family was contacted.
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  Speaker 1: But here's the thing. If that thirty seven minute phone
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  Speaker 1: call had happened just a few years earlier, the outcome
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  Speaker 1: might have been very different.
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  Speaker 2: And then he said, we're a bit gunshoy giving out
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  Speaker 2: information because there was a podcast where the next of
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  Speaker 2: kin did a podcast on Lynett Dawson.
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  Speaker 1: The Australians podcast The Teacher's Pet revealed in twenty eighteen
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  Speaker 1: that Lynette Dawson, who's now known by her maiden name
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  Speaker 1: Lynette Simms, had been murdered by her husband, Chris Dawson,
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  Speaker 1: at their Bayview home in nineteen eighty two. It was
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  Speaker 1: a global smash hit, thrusting the mystery of what happened
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  Speaker 1: to the young mum into the spotlight. Chris Dawson was
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  Speaker 1: arrested and charged with Lynette's murder in December of twenty eighteen.
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  Speaker 1: He was convicted by Justice Ian Harrison in twenty twenty two,
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  Speaker 1: following a long legal fight for a permanent stay of proceedings.
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  Speaker 3: Christopher Michael Dawson on the charts that on are about
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  Speaker 3: eight January nineteen eighty two, at Dayview or elsewhere in
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  Speaker 3: the state of New South Wales.
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  Speaker 4: You did murder Lynette Dawson.
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  Speaker 3: I find you guilty or message family.
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  Speaker 1: Dawson is currently serving a twenty four year sentence for
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  Speaker 1: the crime, but maintains his wife left their home on
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  Speaker 1: the Northern Beaches of her own accord. He's applied for
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  Speaker 1: special leave to appeal his conviction in the High Court,
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  Speaker 1: arguing he suffered a forensic disadvantage improving his innocence due
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  Speaker 1: to the almost four decade delay in bringing charges. The
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  Speaker 1: Unsolved Homicide Unit is also at the center of Headley
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  Speaker 1: Thomas's latest investigative podcast for The Australian. It probes the
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  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three disappearance of lennox Head mother Bronwyn Winfield,
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  Speaker 1: and family members like Bronwyn's brother Andy Reid, say they've
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  Speaker 1: been left out of the loop by police. iiO basically
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  Speaker 1: said for their hands.
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  Speaker 2: A tried.
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  Speaker 3: We can't do any more than what we've done and
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  Speaker 3: we don't have any new evidence.
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  Speaker 4: They've got no intention of putting any more work into it.
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  Speaker 1: The New South Wales Police told The Australian they conducted
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  Speaker 1: a review into Johnny Reagan's murder earlier this year and
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  Speaker 1: they say there's not enough new evidence to justify formally
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  Speaker 1: reopening the investigation. We've used AI to bring that police
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  Speaker 1: statement to life.
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  Speaker 5: The case remains open under State Crime Commands Homicide Squad,
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  Speaker 5: Unsolved Homicide Team, where it continues to be actively monitored
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  Speaker 5: for any new information or evidence that could assist in
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  Speaker 5: advancing the investigation. Police remain committed to providing regular updates
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  Speaker 5: to the victims family, whilst also ensuring the integrity of
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  Speaker 5: the investigation is preserved and that no potential future investigative
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  Speaker 5: avenues are compromised.
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  Speaker 3: Look, this is not a problem I have not encountered
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  Speaker 3: before being a police reporter of a certain vintage, I
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  Speaker 3: have grown up with what you could only call a
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  Speaker 3: perennial disconnect between journalists who are pursuing matters involving the
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  Speaker 3: police and the police themselves. And I understand that I
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  Speaker 3: understand its evolution.
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  Speaker 1: Matthew Condon is a senior reporter with The Australian and
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  Speaker 1: the host of The Gangster's Ghost podcast.
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  Speaker 3: However, in twenty twenty five, we're in a situation where
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  Speaker 3: the game has changed completely, certainly from a journalistic perspective,
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  Speaker 3: and with the advent specifically of podcasting, whereby a journalist
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  Speaker 3: now has a platform where they can indeed examine a
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  Speaker 3: case over many hours of audio. Behind those hours of
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  Speaker 3: audio are many, many hundreds of thousands of words of script,
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  Speaker 3: hundreds of interviews with people, a very very deep dive
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  Speaker 3: into subjects. So you have the evolution of technology which
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  Speaker 3: is providing storytelling on a depth and breadth that has
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  Speaker 3: never been possible before. And you have, in my view,
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  Speaker 3: and it's not a criticism, but you have the police
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  Speaker 3: who have stood still as the technology has marched forward
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  Speaker 3: beyond them and out of sight of them, I believe.
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  Speaker 3: So something's not working. It's no longer a feasible relationship
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  Speaker 3: because we are seeing stories of great depth and research
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  Speaker 3: that really require on behalf of the public require a response,
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  Speaker 3: and that gulf no longer applies or just appears to
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  Speaker 3: be either ignorant stubborn or imprudent. I think that there
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  Speaker 3: needs to be a sort of deatons and where in
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  Speaker 3: the middle, whereby we can assist each other. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: the ambition is the same resolution for the public, for
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  Speaker 3: society at large, resolution for the families of victims, which
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  Speaker 3: is the most pertinent. And I think if we're all
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  Speaker 3: heading towards the same target, we could in fact help
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  Speaker 3: each other.
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  Speaker 1: So is it loyalty or a lack of resources that's
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  Speaker 1: preventing police from moving these cold case investigations forward.
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  Speaker 3: Their work schedule is utterly relentless, twenty four to seven,
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  Speaker 3: three sixty five days a year, and they should be
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  Speaker 3: really congratulated, if not revered, for the work they do
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  Speaker 3: on our behalf. So just let me make that very clear.
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  Speaker 3: But I'll give you a specific example with my research
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  Speaker 3: with the Gangster's Ghost. Kelly Slater, Reagan and I have
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  Speaker 3: been working on this for over four years. Four years
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  Speaker 3: is a long time to work on a single story,
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  Speaker 3: and in those four years you talk to an enormous
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  Speaker 3: volume of people. The thing with the Reagan case is
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  Speaker 3: it might be fifty years, but there are still people
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  Speaker 3: alive with brilliant memories, with stories with anecdotes and with
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  Speaker 3: information as we've discovered that fills in the picture even
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  Speaker 3: after all these years. But that requires patients, it requires
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  Speaker 3: the time itself, and the police are permanently on a
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  Speaker 3: mouse wheel trying to resolve hundreds, if not thousands of issues.
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  Speaker 3: But the podcast then allows us to establish the background,
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  Speaker 3: to lay out the research and then present the findings.
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  Speaker 3: I do understand the issue when you know, we ask
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  Speaker 3: for cooperation and information and they're just in this unending,
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  Speaker 3: forward moving frenzy of their own work. I've discovered with
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  Speaker 3: these cold cases of some vintage, and certainly with the
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  Speaker 3: Gangster's Ghost and the Reagan case, certainly with the Tea
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  Speaker 3: each is pet and certainly with the Bronwin case. In
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  Speaker 3: all three you have a scenario whereby newer generations of
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  Speaker 3: police are unfortunately put in the position whereby they are
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  Speaker 3: having to deal with sometimes shocking ineptitude of prior investigators thirty, forty,
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  Speaker 3: fifty years ago. But you will not find a police
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  Speaker 3: officer who will today, who will disparage the work of
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  Speaker 3: their predecessors, because it's fellow members of a great tradition
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  Speaker 3: in terms of the police and detective work. And I
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  Speaker 3: totally understand that, but often this has to do with
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  Speaker 3: not wishing to lift the rusted piece of corrugated iron
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  Speaker 3: because you're afraid to see what's underneath it. And most
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  Speaker 3: of the time they know what that is, and it
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  Speaker 3: is a failure of initial investigators, be it through a
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  Speaker 3: lack of technology, be it through a lack of knowledge,
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  Speaker 3: or just critical errors that were made back in the day.
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  Speaker 3: That then becomes a factor in why one should not
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  Speaker 3: release certain informations, especially historical information, because it can emerge
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  Speaker 3: as a discredit to the grand tradition of the force itself.
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  Speaker 1: Coming up inside Kelly Slater Reagan's search for the truth
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  Speaker 1: about her gangster cousin, Kelly Slater Reagan applied to join
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  Speaker 1: the New South Wales Police Force on a dare from
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  Speaker 1: a girlfriend. The ghost of her notorious gangster cousin followed
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  Speaker 1: her up the ranks, his name popping up in conversations
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  Speaker 1: with colleagues and in interviews with higher ups. At some
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  Speaker 1: point before she left the force, Kelly looked up Stuart
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  Speaker 1: John reagan extensive criminal history and found it on microfilm.
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  Speaker 1: But years later, when she decided to delve deeper into
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  Speaker 1: her family's past, she was told that criminal history said
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  Speaker 1: to fill ten boxes was missing. After months of back
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  Speaker 1: and forth with the New South Wales Police Unsolved Homicide Unit,
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  Speaker 1: and perhaps when it became evident Kelly wasn't going away,
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  Speaker 1: an expert archivist located the records attached to another matter
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  Speaker 1: where Reagan was a person of interest.
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  Speaker 6: I've read through it like there's some interesting stuff in there.
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  Speaker 6: A lot of stealing, load of traffic offenses, absolutely no
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  Speaker 6: charges for murder. There is charges in there for rape
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  Speaker 6: and a lot of drop charges which I find interesting.
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  Speaker 1: Kelly's search for coronial documents from a nineteen seventy seven
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  Speaker 1: inquest into Johnny Reagan's murder was equally fraught. Statements made
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  Speaker 1: by more than one hundred witnesses before the introduction of
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  Speaker 1: digital archives, as well as ballistic reports and bank and
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  Speaker 1: real estate records, had also vanished. Here's how the New
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  Speaker 1: South Wales Coroner's Court explained it. We've used AI to
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  Speaker 1: bring this correspondence to life.
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  Speaker 4: It appears the file was retrieved at some previous time
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  Speaker 4: in the past along with some other files, and then
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  Speaker 4: refiled with another slash other files instead of being returned
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  Speaker 4: to its correct location.
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  Speaker 1: Though it's not immediately clear where the records were found.
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  Speaker 1: They also eventually landed in Kelly's inbox.
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  Speaker 6: Thank God, like this is the mother lad. I'm grateful
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  Speaker 6: to those that helped us get there. Obviously they've gone
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  Speaker 6: through a hell of a lot of boxes.
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  Speaker 3: Well, she's been astonishing. But the very first time I
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  Speaker 3: ever met Kelly in person, I just knew this woman
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  Speaker 3: was an investigator to be reckoned with. She is absolutely
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  Speaker 3: no nonsense. She does not take no for an answer.
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  Speaker 3: Kelly is a force of nature and I was in
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  Speaker 3: total admiration at how she was utterly relentless and how
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  Speaker 3: she managed to be told that documents have been completely
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  Speaker 3: lost and two years of still banging on the door
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  Speaker 3: for portions of files to bob to the surface. Because
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  Speaker 3: of Kelly changed the shape of the investigation itself and
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  Speaker 3: gave us some much greater and fuller picture than we
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  Speaker 3: might have had. So I credit her extraordinary personality, perseverance
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  Speaker 3: and muscle in many respects with that success.
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  Speaker 1: Matthew Condon is a senior reporter with The Australian and
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  Speaker 1: the host of the Gangster's Ghost podcast. Subscribers here new
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  Speaker 1: episodes first at Gangstersghost dot com dot AU. And remember
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: you can access all the nation's best journalism anytime at
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: the Australian dot com dot au