Latest / Coffee People Podcast / Drew and Cat Jeglinski, Little Joy Coffee Bar and Wine Shop

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Drew and Cat Jeglinski, Little Joy Coffee Bar and Wine Shop · Coffee People Podcast

0:00
Hey everyone, welcome to the Coffee People podcast.
0:03
I'm your host Ryan Wolt. This is the last episode of
0:06
season 13. I'm not sure how I made it this
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far. I'm not sure how we made it to
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the end without even doing a mid season highlight reel, but here
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we are as we have been all season.
0:17
For today's chat with Drew and Kat Jaglinski of Little Joy
0:21
Coffee Bar and Wine Shop, we pushed beyond our comfort zone.
0:25
Not only is this episode available as a video podcast,
0:29
which is new this season, it's the very first time I've done an
0:32
episodic interview on location, and I was doing it with some new
0:37
equipment. I was very nervous and I learned
0:41
more than a few things. Most importantly, the actual
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image that it was being recorded was not exactly the same as what
0:48
I was seeing on the camera display.
0:50
And also in the future, maybe don't set up right next to the
0:53
refrigerator. Lesson learned.
0:56
So all of this is to say thank you for your patience with my
1:00
video skills this year and for making it through another season
1:03
of the Coffee People podcast. It's been a wild ride filled
1:07
with the type of advice and philosophy that only seems to
1:10
emanate from the mouths of Coffee People.
1:13
Please enjoy this episode of the podcast, and I can't wait to see
1:17
you next season. And now on to the show.
1:48
And then I will have, we'll have you kind of start just by
1:51
easiest part is for me is I would say welcome to Coffee
1:55
people, the Coffee People podcast, although today we're
1:59
doing coffee and wine. If you wouldn't mind telling the
2:04
camera who you are and where we are.
2:08
Sure. Go ahead.
2:09
My name is Drew Jaglinski and we're at Little Joy Coffee and
2:12
Wine. This is my wife's cat and we own
2:16
Little Joy. Welcome to Little.
2:18
Joy. Wow, this is really good wine.
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What is this? Cheers.
2:26
So this is 100% negrette from southern, like southwest France,
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sort of like South of Bordeaux. Negrette is the grape.
2:35
It's a totally organic producer, just a really delicious kind of
2:42
not very well known style. And I put in my wine club a
2:45
couple months ago 'cause I think it's really fun.
2:46
And then you like unique and delicious.
2:50
Yeah, it's fun for me because I don't normally drink wine during
2:52
a show. And so I'm like, super pumped
2:55
right now. Awesome.
2:57
So little joy. We're here in Del Mar, CA.
3:01
What? What is it?
3:03
It's not just one thing. So how do you describe it to
3:06
people when they ask you what you do?
3:10
Well, mostly the the cafe is like the driver every day
3:16
because that's open more hours right now.
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So it's coffee shop and then we also back here do the wine
3:23
tasting on the weekends, but hoping to expand that at some
3:27
point. Yeah, I would say we're.
3:29
Coffee bar? Wine shop?
3:31
Yeah. Where did the name Little Joy
3:34
come from? I originally heard it years ago.
3:37
It's a band as a name of a band, and I always had that stuck in
3:43
the back of my head. They're still around on Spotify.
3:46
They made one album and it was an artist that I liked.
3:50
I kind of found them and I was like, oh, what a cute little
3:52
name. Found out that they named their
3:55
band after a dive bar and I said that's like the coolest name for
3:58
a dive bar, one of the coolest names I've ever heard.
4:01
And so when we had a short list when we were opening the cart,
4:04
I, we had a short list of some of the names that we liked.
4:08
And Cat liked Little Joy the best.
4:10
So I think we went with that one.
4:12
Yeah, nothing else we could think of really fit like our our
4:16
philosophy either, so. Yeah, You know, and to me, it's
4:20
like a visual thing. We had an image somebody drew
4:23
and it was, it's just like a little demitas and espresso.
4:26
And I was like, that's it. That's for me is a little joy
4:28
right there, you know? So it goes with our theme of
4:32
being a small business, maybe coming from a coffee car
4:36
environment to our tiny cafe now.
4:40
But to me, a coffee is like a little joy, like life's little
4:43
joys, like a simple thing that can bring you so much, you know,
4:47
happiness or everyday, like the small things that we can
4:52
appreciate. That is a very beautiful
4:55
thought. I'm going to have to learn to
4:56
time my wine drinking to the conversation.
5:00
You mentioned the little demitas glass.
5:02
I'm wondering how did you come across or like how did you come
5:05
up with a branding for what is now Little Joy, which is a
5:09
little bit hand drawn and we'll share in the newsletter as well.
5:12
Yeah, well, we do kind of everything kind of ourselves
5:17
mostly and it's just been community helping us out.
5:20
So when I, when I was approached by Steve to take over the cart,
5:26
I really wasn't sure what to do. And we had happened to have a
5:31
vacation coming up. And so we kind of went on the
5:35
vacation decided, yes, I'm going to do the cart thing.
5:39
I'm going to go out on a limb and try to pick up this business
5:42
and try to get momentum in Del Mar and keep growing it.
5:47
And so we literally had, we came back from that trip and I think
5:51
I had about four weeks to basically start a company.
5:54
So the pressure was on for like anything we were going to brand,
5:59
anything we're going to come up with.
6:00
We kind of had the name and I worked with actually another
6:04
friend in coffee. Everybody that's been a graphic
6:08
designer for us has been a fellow barista, of course.
6:12
And so we got together with our friend Sarah and sat on the
6:15
couch and we hammered it out in maybe 10 minutes.
6:20
I knew I wanted to do something with like a ship in the bottle
6:24
as kind of like a nod to like a heritage nod to like where I
6:27
come from, family history stuff. So we have the ship in the
6:32
bottle, but I thought it'd be really cool.
6:34
Again, we're little joy. We're a tiny company.
6:37
We're making double restretto shots that the ship should be
6:40
small too, instead of like a huge, tall ship.
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So it's really great. We, I think we came up, I said,
6:45
Sarah, let's do like AI want to do like a sailboat and a bottle
6:49
instead of a ship in the bottle. And she came back with almost
6:52
like a yacht. And I was like, well, no.
6:55
And then I found an image from a like a Portuguese Maritime
7:00
Museum website and it was like the perfect little like 2 sail
7:05
kind of sailboat that I wanted to use.
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And so we just kind of used that.
7:09
We combined everything and she came up with the image and the
7:13
script and everything pretty quickly because we had just like
7:17
3 weeks left to put a sign up or have a website and social media
7:23
and all of that stuff. So.
7:25
And I want to kind of get into the story of like buying the car
7:28
you mentioned, Steve, we're talking about Steve Rail from
7:30
Zumbar. But I'm going to press pause and
7:33
just see if this worked. Sure.
7:46
I feel very close to you both right now.
7:48
Perfect. It's a small space.
7:51
Well, it's a small space and but it's a very comfortable space.
7:56
I've never been back here in the wine spot, so I'm just in the
7:59
front. You mentioned that you had a
8:03
chance to buy a coffee cart. How did that come about?
8:07
The coffee cart was right across the street from here, correct?
8:10
So I worked for most of my life. I worked in education, always
8:14
wanted to do a coffee shop, was my dream.
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So I moved out to California in 2012 from Massachusetts, worked
8:23
in special education for a few years, had a great time.
8:26
When I was exiting that job, I knew this might be my one chance
8:32
to try to get into coffee. So I approached the guys at
8:35
Zumbar and Cardiff, which I was a regular at both cafes and Adam
8:41
was just like, we're hiring a dishwasher.
8:43
So I kind of like reset a lot of things in my life.
8:48
I moved to a different apt. I kind of downsized a lot of
8:52
stuff so I could basically move into this role as a dishwasher
8:56
at a cafe. But I knew that they, in my
8:59
opinion, they were like the finest baristas that I've come
9:02
across. I love the coffee that they were
9:05
producing. I love the integrity of the
9:07
baristas, the craft, how they were doing their training.
9:12
So I was like, I'm going to do it.
9:13
I'll start washing dishes for Adam essentially at what's now
9:17
Rose Hill and learned, you know, learned my way all the way up,
9:21
started making drinks, worked there for about 2 1/2 years
9:25
before Steve presented me with the opportunity.
9:28
Were the 2 of you together at this time?
9:31
We met about a year into you working there.
9:34
Yeah. So we we're together when the we
9:41
started. The car, yeah.
9:42
And. But it was, we'd only been
9:44
dating for about a year at that point.
9:46
And yeah, we went on that, that trip, our first like, trip out
9:50
of the country together for, and maybe like two or three days
9:53
before that, he was like, you want to like do this?
9:55
And we're like, I don't know. It's, you know, we'll be gone
9:59
for two weeks. So it kind of was a lot.
10:02
We talked about it a lot on that trip and worked out, you know, a
10:05
few things and got some inspiration from some great
10:07
places. So yeah, that's kind of how I, I
10:12
mean, I worked with you for the first couple years as just doing
10:16
register and stuff, but I was never really that involved in
10:19
like the business until we got over here on this side of the
10:23
Coast Highway and opened the wine shop part of it too.
10:25
So yeah. So we took over.
10:27
So I took over the car from Zumbar in 2019, June of 2019 and
10:34
then we were there for five years.
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So right. And rebranded right away as
10:38
Little Joy or yeah, yeah. We wanted to just start our own
10:42
company. You know, Steve was very
10:45
adamant, you know, we do our own thing.
10:48
So yeah, we got to work. We hand painted our logo on a
10:52
flag and figured out how to hook it into a shade sail and open
10:57
for business. Yeah, I actually had my very
11:01
first cup of coffee in San Diego area at Zumbar, at the Cardiff
11:06
location. And so I feel like I owe a lot
11:09
to that first cup of coffee. Like where was my first French
11:12
press ever, my first, like just sitting there with my own little
11:16
pot in a coffee shop at the time.
11:18
And so there's all these little networks of coffee people that I
11:22
find that you're we're all connected.
11:25
You're at the cart for five years.
11:28
What? What do you wish people knew
11:31
about running a coffee cart? Like challenges, unexpected.
11:34
I think people have this romantic idea of like, oh, I'm
11:36
going to set up for coffee, but they're not the ones dealing
11:40
with, say, weather. I know it's San Diego, but yeah.
11:43
Yeah. Yeah, that was difficult, yeah.
11:47
Especially when you're trying to do craft coffee and you're using
11:50
delicate scales and timers, yeah.
11:53
I feel like the challenge for us was less about like rain, more
11:56
about wind. Like, it gets super windy here
11:58
seasonally, yeah. And temperature changes and
12:01
yeah. Yeah, the.
12:02
The exposure was good. I use a lot of sunscreen in five
12:06
years. And of course the time when you
12:09
get to clean is like the hottest part of the day, like 3:00 when
12:12
the sun's really on us. It it's a lot of challenge.
12:15
It's a lot of, it's a lot of manual work.
12:18
You know, we're stocking every day again, you know, it can be
12:22
as gritty as like just being outside with with all of the
12:26
elements, all of the people where we're set up here, we're
12:31
on a very, very busy intersection once it's very
12:33
difficult to just the energy of traffic or people rushing to
12:38
places. So we see a lot over the years
12:42
for sure that's. That's part of it too.
12:45
But then also when you're in like a mobile situation, you
12:48
have to have your commissary, which we were right outside of a
12:51
restaurant. So, you know, you have they,
12:54
they were also technically our landlords.
12:56
So we're like very kind of working on top of each other a
12:59
little bit. Since it was a restaurant, they
13:00
had their own flow and then we had to kind of fit in that
13:03
somehow. Yeah, that.
13:04
Was a challenge to kind of two places using same facilities and
13:08
trying to work together on that. And then most people that asked
13:13
me, you know, that they're interested in doing a car.
13:16
I don't think they understand that you need the commissary for
13:19
the health department and all the certain requirements that
13:22
you need for that to be a mobile food service and all the
13:25
restrictions that come with it as well.
13:28
So it can get kind of technical. And then it's, you know, I would
13:33
say the biggest challenge is if you want to handle a bucket of
13:35
wastewater at the end of the day, you can do it, You know, if
13:39
you're OK with like RV plumbing and fixing things yourself and
13:44
getting dirty and, and, and getting under it sometimes if
13:47
you have to. But yeah, I, I, it worked for
13:52
us. So I would say it's a, it's the
13:54
perfect way, I think for somebody to start small and to
13:59
be personable with your customers.
14:00
And I think that that's lent the biggest asset for us is that
14:04
we've been able to form good relationships with this
14:07
neighborhood, which was my one concern when we started.
14:10
It's a different market here compared to other places in
14:13
North County. So I knew if we were able to add
14:17
a personal touch, we were able to provide a super high quality
14:23
product in our coffee. And then if I just opened every
14:27
day, we we could do it. What do you mean by just opened
14:31
every day? Like why was that important?
14:33
I think just consistency, yeah, we tell our customers our ours
14:38
and they just forget. So it's almost like I think
14:43
we're getting to this point where we're like a lot of coffee
14:45
shops are just people take it for granted they're open.
14:48
So if it does rain, maybe that's going to hamper you that day.
14:52
When we first opened, I did seven days a week for four
14:55
months and then we had one friend.
14:58
So, you know, things happen if you get sick or something and
15:00
you're not able to work. That's like the one time
15:03
somebody comes and says you weren't there.
15:05
Yeah, of course. That's the Yelp review right
15:08
there, yeah. So I think the consistency when
15:10
you're trying to build, you have to be available to customers.
15:14
They're not going to remember if you have different hours.
15:16
We tried different schedules. I tried to close at lunch and
15:20
then reopen in the afternoon to think maybe that would be
15:22
busier. It didn't really work.
15:25
Eventually we kind of got back to the philosophy of OK, we'll
15:28
just train our customers to know when to come, what to expect.
15:33
It was a pretty unique set up over there with pretty unique
15:36
challenges. Of course, in 2020, right, we
15:38
have the pandemic happened, I don't remember.
15:40
And. Then there's plenty of wine and
15:44
so that was just like another challenge that we had to figure
15:47
out. But again, we were making craft
15:50
coffee outside, which is a huge, huge asset.
15:53
Eventually people were like, oh, this is our we can do this,
15:57
Yeah. And then in this town, everybody
16:00
got to stay home and didn't go to their office or whatever,
16:02
even if it's just Sorrento Valley.
16:04
And people in the restaurant all of a sudden was an opening and
16:08
people saw that we were independent of the restaurant.
16:12
So it, you know, that's maybe another challenge.
16:14
If you're doing a car and you're affiliated with other spaces, I
16:17
think you always want to look independent because people want
16:19
to support a little place with the restaurant.
16:23
I knew the challenge was people couldn't tell if they had to go
16:27
to the restaurant to access the coffee, if we were like a
16:30
supplementary service to their brunch or something where my job
16:37
was to make sure the cart stood out, looked different, looked
16:40
clean and was noticeable on a busy highway.
16:44
You know, everybody would say, oh, you have like such a great
16:46
location, but we're in such a busy corner, people might see us
16:50
and then a stoplight later, they're too, too far already to
16:53
park or turn around or something.
16:55
So, yeah, it was fun. I, I definitely recommend it as
16:59
a starting point for people because it's a little cheaper if
17:02
you're willing to just work. You know, I had a simple goal of
17:05
making 200 bucks a day, you know, and I knew if I did that,
17:08
we could get somewhere, you know, and it was tough.
17:11
Some days you're at 1:50 and you got to just go home and dust off
17:15
and, and come back at it again. But it's a great opportunity to
17:20
start so you can build a client base and people like to see
17:26
small things, trying to do something without a lot of money
17:29
without like maybe financial backing from other groups.
17:33
People will support somebody that I think they know.
17:37
It's their passion, they can see it's their passion through the
17:39
service and you deliver the best thing you can do.
17:44
And we were able to drum up some really wonderful regulars pretty
17:46
quickly. When you start to get to a point
17:50
where you're ready to leave the cart or situation arises where
17:53
the cart is no longer available, you find this space right across
17:58
the street. I think probably serendipitous
18:00
that you were watching it every day, so you knew it and it's in
18:04
your neighborhood. Did you know right away you were
18:07
thinking, we want to add wine into the mix, or was that just
18:11
because of the opportunity? Yeah.
18:13
I think having wine service be part of the cafe was always what
18:18
we thought we would do. It was something that we kind of
18:20
always envisioned, but we didn't really flesh it out to this
18:26
whole idea until we realized that we were getting 2 spaces at
18:29
the same time. So we're actually pretty
18:32
fortunate the way it worked out because this is technically a
18:36
separate unit with a separate front door.
18:38
We're not connected in any way. Our licensing could be a little
18:40
different where we didn't have to have food service in the
18:42
front like full menu service so that we could still have it by
18:47
the glass license, but here and be 21 and up back here.
18:50
But the front is open to everybody at all times.
18:53
So if you don't have full food service, like you can't, you
18:58
can't let someone under 21 come into your establishment, which
19:01
for a coffee shop that doesn't work, you know.
19:03
So the fact that these were separate, we were able to get
19:06
retail upfront and then tasting and retail back here.
19:08
So I think it, it was also very serendipitous that we did have
19:14
the two spots. And so, yeah, we we're.
19:19
Planning that, yeah. And having a.
19:21
Wine Shop is going to dream my, you know, entire career too, of
19:24
my own. So I was happy to jump on the
19:26
opportunity too, yeah. The cat's been in wine for 15
19:30
plus years, so she's done retail sales, distribution.
19:35
We knew like the stars kind of aligned.
19:38
We were very lucky and blessed, especially to go right across
19:40
the street. We were always looking to try to
19:43
expand at some point to have we had bigger ambitions.
19:48
But I didn't think we would even stay in Del Mar.
19:50
It's just real estate's so difficult.
19:52
Opportunities are really hard kind.
19:56
Of tough it's. Really hard to like get an
19:58
introduction to certain spaces. But we just kind of, we were
20:02
lucky we, we started putting the feelers out there and, and
20:05
people responded so. I think you're celebrating or
20:09
just celebrated one year of the wine shop being open.
20:12
Congratulations. Thank you.
20:14
Has it been what you expected? I, I don't really know how to
20:21
answer to that. I mean, yes and no.
20:23
I, I knew all of a lot of our, our coffee regulars were going
20:27
to love the wine shop too, because we had, you know, sort
20:30
of put the word out that that was going to happen.
20:32
We knew almost a year before we got here that we were well, a
20:37
year before we opened that we were going to have the wine
20:40
concept and try to have a wine club and that sort of thing.
20:42
So we. Buttered them up we.
20:44
Yeah, we really were talking it up and got like e-mail signups
20:47
early and stuff. So I knew that a lot of those
20:51
people were going to come, but I didn't really realize how how
20:57
fun it is to like get some of my own regulars back here, you
21:00
know, and people who are starting to discover the wine
21:02
shop organically because maybe they don't really drink coffee
21:04
or maybe they just that's not what they, you know, are looking
21:07
for, but they like wine tasting and they like, you know, having
21:11
a good bottle of wine at home. So it's, it's been a unique
21:16
experience in that way because I just didn't really realize that
21:21
that would be something that would strike me, I suppose.
21:24
And another fun thing that I realized as being here for a
21:28
year is, you know, the coffee regulars have their different
21:31
morning routines. But when they come to the wine
21:33
shop, maybe they've met some. They can meet somebody who we've
21:36
known for years because they've come for five years to the cart,
21:40
but they never interacted because one of them comes at
21:42
8:00 and one of them comes at 11.
21:44
And now they're here at 5:00 PM on a Friday night, and they're
21:47
getting to know each other. So it's a whole, like, extra
21:49
community builder for us back here.
21:50
It's really fun. Yeah.
21:52
Yeah, We knew when we opened back here, we had a three prong
21:54
approach, which would be 1, obviously selling bottles of
21:58
wine, 2 would be the the tasting flights and then three, we have
22:03
a really great wine club and we knew we could get some momentum
22:06
with the wine club already through our regulars that were
22:09
excited about us expanding. And I mean, that's the testament
22:13
to great customers, right? Like then they knew we were
22:16
going to expand. They were so stoked because it's
22:19
like their favorite coffee shop in the what they've been
22:22
supporting is, is taking that and taking it further.
22:25
So they were really excited and again, to just be right across
22:29
the street from where we were. Nobody had to change the way
22:31
that they bike to work or the way that they walk their dog and
22:35
all that stuff. So we were just lucky that we
22:38
didn't lose anybody when we moved.
22:41
Yeah, yeah, some of them it took a little bit longer to find, but
22:45
they they all, they seem to have all come back by now.
22:48
Yeah, yeah. I think I'm surprised.
22:49
Like we have this tiny space, but it it's conducive to people
22:54
coming and learning about wine, which I think that everybody
22:57
appreciates. When you do like a flight
22:58
instead of going somewhere and just drinking glass off the
23:01
menu. That's really great about
23:04
explaining the wines, explaining where they're from, but also why
23:07
we chose them and why we like them.
23:10
And we always try to, you know, let people know there's certain
23:13
wines for certain occasions. You know, there is there is a
23:16
beach wine versus the wine you want to bring to dinner to
23:19
impress somebody's parents or versus a gift for somebody.
23:23
So it's been kind of fun to work with people to see what they
23:28
need it for. And then with our small variety,
23:31
we almost hit all the check marks for what people are
23:34
looking for too so. I was, you know, a restaurant
23:39
yesterday and there was a wine on the menu that was just listed
23:42
as orange. I'm assuming that's like a thing
23:45
that you can tell me about later.
23:47
Speaking of which, we should take a break and have some wine.
23:49
So it was at Docent in Carlsbad Village.
23:56
It's like a new beer tasting room.
23:59
And they had just like 2 wines on the menu and one of them was
24:01
just orange. Yeah.
24:03
And I said they had one out on the shelf and it looks like like
24:07
orange drink. Oh.
24:08
Yeah. Yeah, it was.
24:10
Wild. Yeah, they're.
24:11
Kind of trendy. Some are really good.
24:14
I'd say the first one I had maybe 10 years ago was not.
24:17
But, you know, they're getting, they're all really great, Yeah.
24:20
They, I mean they can range in flavour profiles just as much as
24:25
any like white wine or red wine. So you can get some that are
24:27
like floral and pretty and nice and fruity, and then some that
24:30
are just like minerals, ribbon, like rusty irony, that it just
24:34
kind of runs the gamut, which is fun.
24:37
But you sometimes come across stuff that you don't like, just
24:40
like with any other type of wine.
24:42
So yeah. And there is just super
24:44
traditional right where they're made in Empora.
24:47
So traditionally in Georgia, particularly in other places
24:50
where pre barrel like aging and all that.
24:53
Stuff. It's a very ancient way of
24:54
making wine that has come to behave again.
24:58
All the old things come back around, which actually leads us
25:01
into this next question. You sort of actively issue
25:05
social media. When I compare little joy coffee
25:08
shops like social media to other coffee shops, it's almost non
25:13
existent, which I love personally.
25:16
Is there a reason for that? Is it just a bandwidth issue?
25:19
Is it just a this isn't our audience is, you know.
25:22
Yeah, that's a. Business in 2025 to not do
25:26
social media right. We do it.
25:28
Because we have to, right? Yeah.
25:30
And we kind of only do Instagram.
25:31
We don't do any other like platform, yeah.
25:36
There's several reasons and. Part of it is just because.
25:39
We we don't have time. Yeah, So it is a bandwidth thing
25:43
for sure. And I'm very picky about
25:46
aesthetics and stuff, so I don't like to post unless we think
25:48
it's really kind of crisp and perfect.
25:51
But I also think it's kind of punk rock, you know, it goes
25:54
back to Steve too. Like in Zumbar, they never
25:56
really advertised, right? And same with Cardiff now and
26:00
Rose Hill. It's like we never considered
26:03
that as a major driver. I think instead it's a different
26:08
approach, which is which I like. I think it's a lot of people
26:12
focus a lot on social media and I follow a lot of cafes, but I
26:16
think it's kind of punk to just not worry about that as much.
26:21
Obviously we we're trying now to do a little bit more for the
26:23
wine shop since it's kind of hidden in its own thing.
26:27
So somebody just filmed a little like a little promo video for
26:31
us. We'll post, but in social media
26:35
is like a a tough thing for I think me as somebody in my
26:39
generation where I don't like getting advertisements right and
26:43
I don't really particularly always enjoy the things that I
26:47
see on social media. So I try not to be on social
26:50
media as much as possible, but it's it, I think it kind of goes
26:56
back to the school of philosophy that we've, we've all started
27:00
with Zumbar that if you're good and you and you're true to your
27:03
customers, that you, you make a different relationship.
27:07
Where I'm afraid if we were to do a lot of social media, we
27:10
would maybe just get any kind of customer and they might, we want
27:15
specific kind of customers that are looking for us as opposed to
27:18
somebody that's just like, oh, let's go check this out.
27:22
It's, it's like a fine balance, right?
27:24
Where some of our customers are like, you could be busier and
27:28
we're like, we're kind of as busy as we want to be right now
27:31
where we can still have fun with what we're doing.
27:35
I don't want to be so busy. It's not fun, you know, And I've
27:39
been in cafes where you see the barista and they're gasped and
27:43
you feel bad getting a coffee from them or something that's
27:48
just like trendy and it's popular for a year.
27:50
And then you have to keep up the image and, you know, creating
27:56
content can just go on forever, but you're going to repeat
28:00
yourself. You're going to, you know, kind
28:03
of say the same thing twice. And then I fear, my fear for the
28:07
industry with social media is everything's channeled like
28:10
right now. I see so many, I, I've noticed
28:12
all the trends in people's videos and everything.
28:15
And it kind of homogenizes what cafes are doing.
28:17
Like everybody's trying to make the same kind of video now or
28:21
every. So I'd rather almost be more
28:24
unique by being silent on social media.
28:27
There's. Actually a a trending thing
28:29
right now where you can see over generations how we're using less
28:33
colours as a society. Cars are almost exclusively a
28:39
grey tone, silver, white, black. Now if you go into museums by
28:44
decade, you can see the the condensing of the different
28:48
colours that are used in paintings, even in film and
28:51
cinema. And there's been some study on
28:54
this, and they're not quite sure why, other than people are doing
28:59
what other people are doing. They're seeing and repeating.
29:01
And if they don't see it, it goes away over time.
29:04
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, So yeah, I, I feel
29:08
like we've always done really well basically without it as
29:11
people coming to find us. And I feel like that's the
29:14
perfect customer comes and finds us, you know, and I've, we have
29:18
people in town and they, we don't even have sign right now.
29:21
And they're like, how are people going to find you?
29:24
You know, and I said, well, they have to be looking for us.
29:26
You know, they have to want to find a good coffee in Del Mar.
29:29
They got to want kind of what we're doing.
29:32
And then I think they are finding us still.
29:35
So it's kind of, you know, maybe either miraculous or it just
29:40
shows that you don't have to do what everybody else is doing.
29:44
One of the things I was hoping you could do for us today is
29:47
I've been asking a lot of entrepreneurs for advice, advice
29:51
that they're willing to share with other entrepreneurs who
29:53
might be listening in both of your situations.
29:58
I know it's one, but it's, it's 2, It's a very relatively small
30:02
space. You're working together, you are
30:05
partners in your life. How do you survive?
30:10
What advice would you offer someone else who's 1 going to
30:13
work in a small space and two, thinking about working with
30:16
their partner? Do you want to start that one?
30:21
Well, I was going to say, whenever we do get a few days
30:26
off, we usually go somewhere where we don't have to see
30:28
anybody else. True.
30:30
Like we get as far away from as we can as possible and, or even
30:35
not that far away, just as remote as we can and take some
30:39
time to read a book and sort of reconnect.
30:43
We, it has been a challenge, especially in this last year
30:46
that I have been more involved in the business side of things
30:49
where, you know, I'm managing. I, I don't have, we don't have
30:52
employees that work at the wine shop side, but I'm still much
30:56
more hands on in, in the whole business in general.
31:00
But we decided that we recently decided that probably one of the
31:08
best moves is instead of like, going home and talking about the
31:11
business over dinner every night, is to have like one
31:13
meeting every week where we get together, we hash out some
31:15
stuff. And then it's not something that
31:20
we we've had like a professional discussion about it separate
31:24
from our house, separate from our, you know, time together to
31:27
relax at home. So yeah, I.
31:29
Think that's part of it is having like, OK, we're done
31:31
working. It's hard to turn it off because
31:33
you're so excited. You're like, Oh my God, I have
31:35
this idea. We have to do this.
31:36
Why don't we try this and it can bug the other partner, yeah?
31:42
Like if one of us has had a long day or something, it'd be like.
31:45
Yeah, and, and Cat works full time during the week and then
31:48
does the wine shop on the weekend.
31:50
So she's been working seven days the last year and you were up
31:55
front all the time. So, but that said, I think it's
31:59
been easy with us. Cat's my best friend as well as
32:03
my wife. But I, you know, going through
32:05
the build, all of that and working together really proved
32:10
to me that we were really In Sync.
32:12
Like we had like somebody trying to architects working or the
32:15
contractors. We always had, we always agreed
32:19
on what needed to be done when like little variables came up.
32:23
So we didn't really argue much about the build or anything like
32:26
that. Yeah.
32:28
And again, I think if we're blessed that we, she has her
32:31
space here and I have my space up there.
32:34
So she in a sense, we still, we both have like autonomy with our
32:38
spaces too. And I don't mess with the wine
32:41
shop, you know, and she comes in and, and she gets a coffee from
32:46
us like a customer would. So it's, it's, it's a fine
32:50
balance. It's I, I think that's it
32:53
though, is maybe trying to make that distinction where you can
32:56
work as as much as you can, but you got to at least like set
33:01
times where you're not going to work.
33:03
You know I don't. Understand what you're saying
33:05
right now. I think I can hear you saying
33:07
it, but I'm not understanding. It's almost a dedicating time to
33:10
not working. We're kind of, you know, I'm a
33:15
little bit more mid career. We're both like mid career.
33:17
So it's like, OK, it's exciting to start a business, but it's
33:22
it's it, it can get to you if you, if I feel like we just
33:28
think about it constantly and that's will get you burnt out if
33:32
you forget that you should just be having dinner and talking
33:34
about fun stuff. Yeah.
33:36
Or so I think it's just about kind of like compartmentalizing
33:41
where, again, it can be. You can talk about it all day
33:43
and night and you're like, Oh my God, I forgot about this for
33:45
taxes, or we got to call this person.
33:48
It goes on and on and on. It's never ending.
33:50
Yeah. So maybe it's like do.
33:51
You think we should order to like tomorrow?
33:53
Yeah, stuff like that. So maybe it's just like 6:00 PM
33:56
You got to go back to just being partners and friends and and
34:01
have a romantic life go out just so that everything doesn't carry
34:07
all the way till till you fall asleep.
34:10
You know, because it can if you're really excited about your
34:12
business, you're just going to try to keep figuring it out as
34:15
you go. So we've been, we've done pretty
34:18
well for a year. I know.
34:22
Yeah. So a year into the new space,
34:24
but a longer period obviously overall between the two of you,
34:27
how how are you deciding to measure success?
34:32
That's a good question. I think like on the day-to-day
34:36
micro level, it's just the the number total at the end of the
34:40
day and seeing how that's grown since we first started.
34:44
You mean financially? Yeah, OK.
34:46
Yeah. But honestly, like one of my
34:52
most like special memories happened recently when we had
34:55
like a little one year anniversary party for the wine
34:56
shop back here. And we said thank you to all the
35:00
customers that we invited. And so many people were thanking
35:06
us for being here because they've met so many friends and,
35:10
you know, felt like they're more of a part of the community.
35:13
Delmar is an interesting town in that half the houses are empty
35:18
like most of the time because there's a lot of short term
35:20
rentals. A lot of people are just here
35:22
seasonally and that. Sort of thing, but the.
35:24
People who do live here and want to have community, like didn't
35:29
really have a place to do that before we came around there's.
35:34
All spread out and maybe alcohol based or yeah.
35:38
Like people go for happy hour or whatever, but there was never a
35:40
place for people to come and like check in in the morning.
35:43
And so I think that makes me feel successful more than
35:46
anything else, just having all of these people who would have
35:49
become our good friends also become friends with each other
35:52
and notice that, appreciate that this is the place that it
35:55
happened. Yeah, I like that.
35:57
This is like, again, this is their home in a way, or their
36:00
third place, right As people talk about now where you could
36:04
meet other people network. That's what I always love about
36:08
a good cafe is like you could, I've met some of my best friends
36:12
at cafes versus maybe a bar or some other organized event.
36:17
It's more about I like, I like, I always say I get to see people
36:20
at their best in the morning and brightest.
36:26
The success part, obviously you got to make ends meet, right?
36:28
We're in Southern California and it's very expensive to live
36:31
here, but we live simply so that we can do what we love.
36:36
I think we live within our means and success.
36:38
For me, I'm not like a huge money person.
36:42
We just want to kind of hit our like basic life goals, which are
36:46
pretty simple, I think. But yeah, I think maybe at the
36:50
one year anniversary, you know, I felt like we had achieved
36:54
already what we set out to achieve because we created a
36:58
community where there was a lack of opportunity for community.
37:02
And to see two people that are best friends now because of the
37:07
coffee shop or the wine shop or a group of people that are all
37:12
neighbors that didn't even know each other before, I think is
37:15
the ultimate goal of what we're doing.
37:19
I like to consider what we're doing like an art project
37:21
instead of a business or a cafe or a wine shop.
37:24
It's more about how can we make a statement sort of, and
37:29
everybody wants like a meaningful job, right?
37:31
So it's like you can make coffee and take the buck and give them
37:36
the cup. Or is it like to me, I, I
37:40
learned so much from so many people.
37:42
I try to have a conversation with almost everybody.
37:45
If people are travelling, we get to give them some suggestions
37:48
about where to go. And it's amazing to me we have
37:51
people that will come back years later and they're like, you guys
37:54
are still here or they found us over here now.
37:57
They're like, we thought we thought you were gone, you know.
37:59
So to me, I think that's a a success right there is people
38:03
remember you people. You're their favorite coffee
38:06
shop. That's all I could really dream
38:08
of really is like somebody is is it's it's again creating art.
38:14
I have a whole philosophy about latte art and it's all about
38:18
that too for me as a what do I get out of the fulfilment?
38:21
It's like I get to personally create something for somebody
38:25
the best that I can in front of them in an interactive kind of
38:30
thing. And then my work, I get to
38:33
deliver it to somebody and look at them in the face.
38:36
And I don't know why. Many other people, artists
38:38
included, where you create an artwork and you present it to
38:42
somebody right there in front of them.
38:44
There's something for me that's fulfilling that.
38:47
My efforts are going to create something delicious, beautiful
38:52
hopefully, and that person gets to see maybe the most beautiful
38:57
design they've seen all day. And then they have to drink it,
39:00
which is the best part. It's all fleeting, right?
39:04
But that's, I think that's the more successful part is, is
39:07
every day I, I, you know, the people we meet is really it.
39:10
And now I feel like we have this community where, you know, we
39:14
had a, a gentleman that, you know, had a surgery.
39:17
Like there were like 8 people from the coffee shop helping
39:20
that guy out, you know, bringing him food, bringing him coffee
39:24
and checking in and even just like making sure he's OK.
39:27
So I think that that's something that's needed in our culture,
39:31
you know, where a lot of coffee obviously in the last 30 years
39:34
in this country has become more of a chain thing, right?
39:38
And it's a commodity. And you go in and you, you get
39:41
your coffee and you go to work. And people lost that vibe of
39:45
maybe European cafes where you walk to your cafe, you check in
39:50
with your neighbors, and then you ghost every day.
39:53
So I kind of, to me, that's more success than like the money.
39:57
I would never tell anybody. If you want to be rich, get into
40:00
coffee, you know? Is he always this romantic?
40:04
Yeah, all the time, yeah. Oh yeah, very.
40:09
Philosophical about a lot of stuff, yeah, but.
40:12
That's all important. I, you know, if I was to leave a
40:14
job, like I had a more corporate background, I worked in
40:17
education and everything and then it was like, OK, now I'm
40:19
going to go do a coffee cart where I'm going to maybe make a
40:22
take home $100 a day. That was the best job I've ever
40:26
had. You know, So there's something
40:28
to say about if you're doing what you love, it's a little bit
40:32
different than like doing something to meet financial
40:35
goals solely or yeah, you have to do it, you know, And I think
40:41
again, that's what attracts people to our business.
40:43
It's like they know we we're always happy, you know, I'm
40:46
never had a bad day yet at the cafe.
40:48
What about the wine shop? No, I mean, we've only had for a
40:52
year or so. No, it's, it's been really fun
40:55
and it's been, you know, one of the interesting things for me
40:59
is, is kind of meeting people where they, they're at as far as
41:04
wine knowledge goes. I mean, wine can be like super
41:05
intimidating for people, but I, it really doesn't have to be
41:09
like it's just grape juice at the end of the day.
41:11
So I like to, you know, be very down to earth about it and help
41:16
people just kind of figure out how they can appreciate it maybe
41:19
a little bit more or try something that I've never seen
41:21
before or maybe even, you know, just have a nice time tasting
41:26
and watching the sunset, you know?
41:30
What comes next for little joy? Well, we're going to be here a
41:36
while. Yeah.
41:36
Yeah. So, you know, we're excited.
41:38
This is our first year here. We built the spaces, so we've
41:43
invested in our location here and we just want to really
41:47
hunker down and and reach certain goals and some daily
41:51
goals. But it's kind of like the cart.
41:53
I feel like every day we just kind of keep etching up a little
41:56
bit more. It's like a train that stays on
41:59
the track. We don't really have any other
42:02
plans to like expand or anything like that.
42:07
I mean, I think that the next step for us would be to have the
42:10
wine shop open more than just the weekends.
42:12
So we're not really sure how that's going to happen yet, but
42:18
leaning in, leaning into the side of things because that's
42:20
the where the potential for growth is the most right now.
42:23
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
42:24
We really want to get the wine shop open at least five days a
42:28
week. We want to do more events
42:29
because the events are very popular right now.
42:32
So we've done like food, like cheese pairings with with wines.
42:36
We've done Cat will lead educational classes, intro
42:39
classes to wine and everyone we've done has sold out.
42:43
So we're really excited to try to ramp that up this year to
42:45
have maybe 2 events per month. We have our wine club, we're
42:51
always accepting more people into the wine club.
42:54
And then we're still working with the city for the front
42:56
patio. So they've been pretty tough
42:59
about how many tables we can have.
43:02
They've been tough about certain restrictions there.
43:04
But we would love to be able to serve wine glasses to our cafe
43:08
clientele in the afternoons and maybe be able to have some kind
43:12
of little more afternoon action in terms of serving glasses of
43:17
wine in in in the summer or something on the front patio.
43:20
Because it's so beautiful and it seems a little untapped.
43:23
But that'll be working with the city and the ABC to get all that
43:27
approved so easy. Peasy.
43:29
Not always. One of the things I've been
43:32
doing this year is talking a little bit more about things
43:35
that we find valuable in the world, charitable efforts,
43:39
nonprofit stuff, things that we're doing in our personal
43:41
life. I'm wondering if you guys have
43:43
anything that you'd like to share or draw attention to is
43:46
something that you're passionate about?
43:48
So I've been a member of Women's Wine Alliance for a long, long
43:51
time. They're San Diego based
43:53
organization that empowers women.
43:56
It's education focus. They give scholarships for like
43:59
summary exams and that sort of thing.
44:01
They do educational seminars once a month.
44:04
Couple years ago, before we started this, I was on the board
44:08
of directors for a little bit. But it's something that's, you
44:10
know, very dear to me because the wine industry is still very,
44:14
very much a boys club and we like to help everybody who wants
44:18
to be involved be involved. So that's that's, that's Women's
44:23
Wine Alliance is what it's called, and it's only in San
44:25
Diego right now, so. Yeah, yeah, on terms of our
44:29
side, I I think we're just trying to make sure everybody's
44:31
comfortable at the cafe and feels welcome.
44:33
That's all. People with everything in
44:36
politics going on right now, it's a lot of division.
44:38
So, you know, our effort is to keep uniting people and instead
44:42
of the opposite. And I think the cafe can
44:45
continue to do that as a, a, a safe place for people to meet
44:50
and, and learn from each other. And again, it being a positive
44:56
community place where people who maybe never thought they would
45:00
meet can actually interact and learn from each other.
45:04
Especially here, it's like we get to meet so many
45:07
international people. We get to hear everybody's
45:10
opinions about stuff. And we might be in some sort of
45:14
political, political turmoil now because people don't talk and
45:17
people don't have the beginning of dialogue.
45:21
And then it feels like you can't have any dialogue.
45:23
There's too much space already between them.
45:25
So, you know, we try to work with, with, we've done several
45:30
events this year. We work at the Rotary Club at
45:33
Del Mar and they do a lot of fundraising for the lifeguards
45:36
here in town as well as international stuff.
45:40
And we've done several other donations of the schools this
45:43
year, which was really fun, the elementary school here.
45:47
So usually it's, it's working within our community.
45:49
Do what we can and donate our time if we don't have money
45:52
right now, it's working. Just offering time and again,
45:56
trying to make everybody feel welcome and and part of this
45:59
community here. It's kind of fun, yeah.
46:05
What did I miss? What do you wish people knew
46:07
about you, if anything? Or did we cover everything there
46:09
is to know? That's it.
46:11
We're here. People need to know we're here,
46:13
you know? So the wine.
46:15
Shop right now is open Friday evenings and then Saturday,
46:21
Sunday days. But if somebody's looking for
46:24
it, you'll see the cafe up front and there's a little like
46:26
hallway and then the back unit is the line shop.
46:28
So we're back here it's and we still don't have a sign out.
46:32
So I think that's part of the part of the our visibility
46:36
problem right now. But we've got a little A-frame
46:39
when I am open. So if you're looking, we're
46:42
we're here, yeah. It's like a Speakeasy.
46:44
Yeah, and we also have a wonderful ocean sunset view in
46:48
the evenings. I'm.
46:50
Looking out the window right now all.
46:52
Last spring it was really fun. So it's not a.
46:54
Bad venue to sip wine? Yeah, exactly.
46:56
Yeah. We'd like some house binoculars
46:58
sitting here I. Know I will, yeah.
47:00
Yeah, Yeah. I think people, you know, we
47:03
live in North County and again, Del Mar usually gets a bad rap
47:06
for, you know, being touristy or hard to get to or hard to park
47:11
at. But I really think that it's one
47:14
of the most beautiful of the towns in North County.
47:17
If you walk around here, there's all kind of alleyways, or if you
47:20
go up the hill, there's like some of the most unique
47:22
architecture in San Diego and everything.
47:25
To Everybody has amazing yards, Yeah, trees and everything.
47:27
Everywhere so it's it's you know, to come grab a coffee and
47:31
walk around here is is definitely worth it.
47:35
I think the, the beaches here have a, a very unique vantage
47:39
point where you can see from La Jolla to Oceanside.
47:43
So it's very beautiful. I think people in general in
47:46
North County tend not to come to Del Mar, but it's worth it if
47:50
you come grab a coffee and just walk around, you know, and
47:54
we're, we're, we're a younger business here.
47:56
So we're trying to kind of change what people think of town
48:01
and try to almost bring new energy, new effort, new passion
48:06
to a place where maybe it almost kind of lacking for a bit.
48:36
When I get all, make sure I get all the wine in the background.
48:42
I love looking at the wine because I feel like I'm looking
48:44
at a wall of art. You know, it's not just wine
48:47
bottles or something that I'm going to drink.
48:49
I love labels. Labels are like a passion of
48:51
mine. Well, it's, it's funny, it's,
48:54
you know, I have this conversation with a lot of my
48:55
customers. Like it's the same philosophy as
48:57
you eat with your eyes first. Like if I presented you with two
49:00
wines at the same price and one has a cuter label and they're
49:03
the same wine, you're going to get a cute label 1 So I just,
49:06
you know, we're small. So I just say we don't have room
49:08
for ugly wine here either. You know, so it's heartbreaking
49:13
when a delicious wine is in a very bland label.
49:18
So we've they even thought about like having a like an ugly
49:20
duckling kind of thing or something.
49:22
Like believe me, when you open it, it's unreal 'cause sometimes
49:25
you take stuff, but maybe they're very old school, you
49:28
know, very old school producers in Europe.
49:30
Well, that leads me to my last question for you both.
49:33
It's two parts for you guys since we've got two things going
49:36
on. And the first is if you're out,
49:39
if you get away, you're away from the shop and you stop to
49:42
get a cup of coffee somewhere, what are you going to order?
49:46
Depends on if it's hot or cold outside.
49:49
Usually I'll do a cortado or like a teeny teeny tiny iced
49:53
americano. I like a macchiato or an
49:56
espresso. And then the same thing that
49:59
afternoon. You've been out remoting it
50:01
alone, but you stumble into this wine shop in the middle of
50:05
nowhere. What are you going to order?
50:08
1st, I'm going to ask a person working there what they like
50:09
because usually the people who are working at wine shops have a
50:12
favorite and that stuff that they're very excited about.
50:15
And it's fun to to engage with people who work at wine shops
50:19
and wine bars because they always are a wealth of knowledge
50:22
and love to talk about it. But usually I'll go for
50:25
something white or rose like high acid, super refreshing,
50:30
especially if it's in the afternoon.
50:31
Still, I I like to stay on the lighter side of things.
50:34
Same. I usually have to look at her
50:35
and say what should we get? Something unique?
50:39
But yeah, we love roses and and and chilled wines when the sun's
50:43
up and then we get into the red. So if it's a little darker, I
50:47
usually try to find unique stuff.
50:49
I love Italian wine, so we're always into what's Italian on
50:53
the menu, but open to anything really.
50:56
Portuguese. Anything Portuguese I'll order,
50:59
but yeah, yeah. And we're excited.
51:02
There's lots of fun new places opening that are doing finding
51:05
unique wines and finding really good bottles.
51:08
So there's a lot of fun stuff to explore so.
51:12
Well, I just I really appreciate one you've invited me into your
51:15
space. So thank you and the time and
51:19
our 3rd guest are cooler over here, which I'm sure we're going
51:22
to be hearing a little bit during the show.
51:25
Something to know, a learning experience.
51:28
But thank you guys for being on coffee, people.
51:30
Oh, yeah. Thank you.
51:31
Very much thanks. For having us there, how's it?
51:34
Perfect, I hope. That was not too painful.
51:37
Ah. Nah, Nah, that's easy.
51:38
Uh huh. You just talked about ourselves.
51:41
Yeah. Hopefully.
51:43
We were good. The.
52:33
There's some branding in there, see.
52:34
Yeah, for sure, if you had to pick the best label.
52:41
Oh gosh, I mean the best label, the most clever label I've got
52:48
right now is probably this Chianti.
52:51
So the straw basket that Chianti used to always come in is called
52:56
a fiasco. So that's why they've like
52:58
called that. But I don't know, they're all
53:03
they're all a lot of fun. I like my 3 headed dragon from
53:05
Hungary too. She's a lot of fun.
53:10
This one is very beautiful, the sort of like kimono style koi
53:16
fish. Oh yeah, we've got a lot.
53:19
Of that's the one that I was like, I want to buy just to have
53:21
the bottle right. Very cool.
53:28
No, I think it looks all right.
53:42
Little Rowdy.